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Author Topic: Sonnet crescendo 7200 and OS4.1  (Read 17686 times)

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Offline Motormouth

Re: Sonnet crescendo 7200 and OS4.1
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2018, 01:08:44 AM »
Quote from: amiadudeorwat;839033
As I understand it the Sonnet or Rapture can write to the Voodoo or Radeon graphics memory directly bypassing Zorro and Buster, so it is much faster than getting data from the accelerator slot.  33 MHz PCI gets 133MB/s compared to the typical 10-14MB/s Zorro-3 allows, on a good day.  I don't know what sort of speed the Sonnet gets but from some of the applications that run at the framerates they run it is at least 30MB/s.  

From what I've read on the EAB thread, Voodoo 4 works but the Elbox driver doesn't support Big Endian modes so some applications don't work or have wrong colors.



I got lucky and got a voodoo 4 at a yard sale (in another thread).  I have been using for about a week and it has been working fabulously, not 100% tested yet.  The only thing that has color issues (so far) is wipeout's opening 2-D images, but the voodoo 3 also had this same issue.
 

Offline Rob

Re: Sonnet crescendo 7200 and OS4.1
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2018, 01:38:37 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;839028
Can you point me to technical info on that?
It doesn't sound like they had the resources to realize it, but the idea sounds practical.

I wasn't really paying attention to the Amiga community at that point.
All I've heard about that project merely made it sound like a scam, but a "pointless brainfart"?
What seems pointless, is that when you tack a PCI bus onto an Amiga everything is coordinated via a bridge to the much slower native bus.
Why not have a direct PCI connection to the PPC cpu?


This article translate from French gives a good overview over the project and how things panned out.

http://translate.google.fr/translate?u=http://obligement.free.fr/articles/amigaoneppc1200.php&sl=fr&tl=en&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8

There are some extra photos on the bottom of this page.

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Famiga-mania.orgfree.com%2FNoticias%2FAmigaOne%2FAmigaOne.html&edit-text=&act=url

You may have already seen the schematic before on the Phake5 Facebook page.
 

Offline IggyTopic starter

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Re: Sonnet crescendo 7200 and OS4.1
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2018, 05:42:51 AM »
Quote from: Rob;839037
This article translate from French gives a good overview over the project and how things panned out.

http://translate.google.fr/translate?u=http://obligement.free.fr/articles/amigaoneppc1200.php&sl=fr&tl=en&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8

There are some extra photos on the bottom of this page.

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Famiga-mania.orgfree.com%2FNoticias%2FAmigaOne%2FAmigaOne.html&edit-text=&act=url

You may have already seen the schematic before on the Phake5 Facebook page.


Interesting, but now I understand Kronos' objections. There is virtually no integration between the legacy system and the PPC side of the system.

At that point, the stand alone AmigaOne or Pegasos makes as much sense.

It almost would have made more sense, if the two were to be integrated, to created a single card legacy system that could be plugged into one of those PCI sockets.

Now, maybe we could examine that comment about running Crescendo cards in an X86/X64 platform. If PPC specific software could be run on a card, and the rest of the OS ported to the X86 ISA we'd have an platform that would allow the use of cheaper, more powerful commodity hardware for newer applications, and still have compatibility with older applications without the necessary complication of emulation.

Better still, one plug in board similar to the Vampire for OS3.X compatibility.
A PPC card for OS4.X or MorphOS compatibility.
All running in an X64 system that could handle the next generation of MorphOS or maybe AmigaOS 5?
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Offline Kronos

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Re: Sonnet crescendo 7200 and OS4.1
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2018, 10:01:52 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;839039
I
At that point, the stand alone AmigaOne or Pegasos makes as much sense.

An A1/Pegasos makes "much sense" the moment you replaced all things Amiga with much more powerful components from 15 years later making the Axx00 an glorified keyboard controller.
(same reason I don't get all the buzz about the Vampire)


Now Phase5PPC+Permedia/PCI does already fall into that category but is acceptable due to being released in a different time.


Bout having a Sonnet-PPC in an MorphOS-NG running x86-64, just start MorphOS3.x in QEMU and be done with it.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 10:04:00 AM by Kronos »
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline nicholas

Re: Sonnet crescendo 7200 and OS4.1
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2018, 10:12:13 AM »
Quote from: Kronos;839040

Bout having a Sonnet-PPC in an MorphOS-NG running x86-64, just start MorphOS3.x in QEMU and be done with it.


I'd love to but the MorphOS Team aren't exactly helpful to the QEMU guys in getting it running.
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline Bennymee

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Re: Sonnet crescendo 7200 and OS4.1
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2018, 10:27:06 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;839019
I've seen a few, but the majority needed to be repaired.
Currently I don't own an Amiga with a PCI expansion bus.

But I'd assume that anyone with a 4000 with a mediator would be a possible candidate, so I'd assume its more than "1 or 2".

Exploring using the card isn't something we can vote on, the team working on it wants to use it, so its getting done.

My basic question was could it be used for something more than WarpOS packages, since there are only a few of those.

Personally, if a new PPC board for legacy Amigas was created, I'd rather have something that fits in the processor slot and has access to the chipset.

An A4000 equipped with a 1GHz G4 would be very competitive with some AmigaOne's and it would be able to run software that hits hardware directly.
Add a mediator and an RTG card and you've got a legacy system that is as powerful as an AmigaOne, but retains register level compatibility.


There could be an option of the A1200 + Mediator + Sonnet or something else as Hedeon allready demo's this combo.
Amiga 500, 1200, 4000, Amigaone, Morphos, CyberstormPPC, Blizzardppc, OS4.x
 

Offline Kronos

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Re: Sonnet crescendo 7200 and OS4.1
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2018, 11:45:57 AM »
Quote from: nicholas;839041
I'd love to but the MorphOS Team aren't exactly helpful to the QEMU guys in getting it running.

I wasn't implying to run a QEMUed MorphOS under Win/Linux/OSX but using as legacy support in case of an x86-64 native MorphOS-NG.

It's also no secret that at least one developer had MorphOS running in QEMU years ago, but it was decided to not support such things.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 01:00:20 PM by Kronos »
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline SnkBitten

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Re: Sonnet crescendo 7200 and OS4.1
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2018, 12:32:43 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;839024
Has anyone tried a Sonnet in an Amithlon machine?


I'm very curious about this as well.  Would be very interesting to see the mix of PPC, 68k and x86 running.

Offline Louis Dias

Re: Sonnet crescendo 7200 and OS4.1
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2018, 12:35:02 PM »
Wouldn't porting OS4's bootloader to WiiU custom firmware be simpler?

https://hackinformer.com/2016/12/12/wiiu-rednand-cfw-tutorial/
 

Offline nicholas

Re: Sonnet crescendo 7200 and OS4.1
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2018, 12:46:13 PM »
Quote from: Motormouth;839034
I had several issues getting mine stable, initially issues with the mediator itself that elbox fixed, and then issues with warp3d mostly due to bad memory in a voodoo card.   Now it is rock solid, not really any issues with the Sonnet itself, or the sonnet project software.

As long as you have the correct pci.library from elbox, powerpc.library from jenkins, and a video card properly installed, the sonnet should work.

I agree the biggest limitation is the number of software titles that can be run.


If I understand this correctly, Elbox pci.library is needed rather than openpci.library.

So a wrapper would need creating to use a Sonnet in an Amithlon machine?
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline IggyTopic starter

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Re: Sonnet crescendo 7200 and OS4.1
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2018, 02:35:47 PM »
Quote from: Kronos;839040
An A1/Pegasos makes "much sense" the moment you replaced all things Amiga with much more powerful components from 15 years later making the Axx00 an glorified keyboard controller.
(same reason I don't get all the buzz about the Vampire)


Now Phase5PPC+Permedia/PCI does already fall into that category but is acceptable due to being released in a different time.


Bout having a Sonnet-PPC in an MorphOS-NG running x86-64, just start MorphOS3.x in QEMU and be done with it.

I kind of get Vampire, until you reach Vampire4, where attachment to legacy hardware is redundant as all functionality now resides in the FPGA and it can exist as a stand alone system.

And yes, QEMU is beginning to look like the solution for running current NG software.
Although the first project that intrigues me is the idea of emulating the SAM460 and the X5000 on a PCIe PowerMac G5 11,2.
And I'd assume similar emulations could been done easily on a Power 9 based platform, possible multiple instances of OS', one or more than one type.

How about ALL Amigoid OS running on one platform with plenty of threads to spare.
Since Power 9 has PPC compatibility, our current NG OS' and hardware (outside of AROS) would be easier to emulate and require less cpu power than similar  emulation via X64.

We would need something that would run above these emulations, provide a common user interface and a method of compositing the various display windows, and accessing the hypervisor.
Possibly a variant of Linux.
OR Bigfoot, Keiro and a few other talented programmers could expand on Ambient and and an SMP enabled kernel could be provide the core of something beyond MorphOS that manages everything, and provides an environment for 64 bit code with memory protection and all the modern features we are currently missing.

Nothing like that is likely to happen, as we are all mired in this slow death march of evolution that is one step from completely frozen, dragging around the corpse of a legacy API.

But you're right, one system would do.

I guess I'll start exploring the options right now on my X64 hardware and my 11,2 PowerMac.
If the Amiga community can't get its act together on hardware platforms, the rapid advance of platforms outside our community should provide enough power to emulate anything we run within our various camps.

So guys, I'm still focused on that X5000/40. After all, that will run MorphOS, OS4, and Linux.

But, once you all embrace low end hardware like the A1222 (which will only run OS4 and Linux, and then only moderately well), I will hopefully have better hardware, and will be working on a unified emulation of everything you have with a platform that can run that and more.

Good luck with the direction so many of you want to take.
The goal is to pedestrian for me.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 02:37:48 PM by Iggy »
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Offline Kronos

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Re: Sonnet crescendo 7200 and OS4.1
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2018, 02:51:12 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;839047
I kind of get Vampire, until you reach Vampire4, where attachment to legacy hardware is redundant as all functionality now resides in the FPGA and it can exist as a stand alone system.


Current Vampire is like getting an Intel i7 onto a board that still has ISA-slots so you can get an CGA and AdLib card into it..........
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline nicholas

Re: Sonnet crescendo 7200 and OS4.1
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2018, 03:10:14 PM »
Quote from: Kronos;839043
I wasn't implying to run a QEMUed MorphOS under Win/Linux/OSX but using as legacy support in case of an x86-64 native MorphOS-NG.

It's also no secret that at least one developer had MorphOS running in QEMU years ago, but it was decided to not support such things.


That was a long time ago. I'm referring to the Hungarian guy who asked for help on his attempt of cloning G4 PowerMac hardware with QEMU not so long ago and got told where to go.
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline nicholas

Re: Sonnet crescendo 7200 and OS4.1
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2018, 03:29:04 PM »
Quote from: lou_dias;839045
Wouldn't porting OS4's bootloader to WiiU custom firmware be simpler?

https://hackinformer.com/2016/12/12/wiiu-rednand-cfw-tutorial/


You still trying to flog that dead horse after all these years?
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: Sonnet crescendo 7200 and OS4.1
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2018, 05:11:24 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;839052
You still trying to flog that dead horse after all these years?

Does the truth hurt to hear?
I guess I'll have to be content with Linux...
https://gitlab.com/linux-wiiu/linux-wiiu#wii-u-linux
 

Offline nicholas

Re: Sonnet crescendo 7200 and OS4.1
« Reply #44 from previous page: May 07, 2018, 05:42:22 PM »
Quote from: lou_dias;839053
Does the truth hurt to hear?
I guess I'll have to be content with Linux...
https://gitlab.com/linux-wiiu/linux-wiiu#wii-u-linux


If the OS4, AROS or MorphOS devs were interested in porting to the Wii they'd have already done it.

If you want it so bad then put your money where your mouth is and pay for the development costs.
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini