Ease off bashing AmigaONE X1000?

[vox]

The criticism has become tiring.

A) Price. Can't be helped because it is made in small batches.
B) PowerPC vs other. As a hobby system I suppose it doesn't matter.
C) Drivers. Coming along, but most people who buy it don't seem to care.

Not a fan, because PowerPC has probably been replaced by ARM. I should just keep the hobby alive and not get bogged down in arguments.

  There is a large faction of people who remember Amithlon and know that you can use an x64 computer.
  There is another faction that like to take advantage of old hardware to run an Amiga compatible OS. You could quiet these down by porting to one of the old Macs.
  I'm not sure when the x64 faction will get what they want.

People that buy X1000 know what they are buying, and they still do (like I will) just because that is the way to support OS and development. No matter how expensive, bad etc. it looks like MorphOS has no custom hardware anymore and AROS has luck of running on pretty anywhere. That make SAMs and A-EON products pritty much only Amigas in hardware sense, arguable, but as custom hardware built for AmigaOS, true.

[vox]

"the amigaone x1000 is too expensive for me. maybe if the price point was under $1000, i could consider purchasing it. also, while i see some of the drivers have been finished, it's a shame that 3D support isn't there yet. i really would want to play 3D games on it if i bought it."
-- eliyahu

Its easy to bash hardware that comes before software supports it, hope Hyperion will do OS 4.2 properly with Cyrus and stop that crazy idea in the future, so that argument is lost.

On side of price, there is quite cheap SAM 440 board as entry system. And its entry system that doesn`t provide much horsepower.

Under $1000 you can build a SAM 460 system that is quite capable and not so weak as cheaper of X1000. But limited in expandability and having same plague of no 3D drivers. But again, hope it will change soon.

So there are both entry and $1000 systems, so X1000 just can`t be it.
And I would first love if it was cheaper - just because my loan to bank would be lesser.

[vox]

I think many classic users (like yours truly) are disappointing with the lack of progress/direction of OS4 development over the past few years and who also didn't agree with the X1000 'vision' from the beginning.   This lack of faith has been justified by the limited availability of the hardware, the cost of the hardware and how much work remains before OS4 can fully support all of it's hardware features (which let's face it, may never happen).

But in saying that, I realize that it's pointless to 'bash' the X1000, it is what it is and at least they tried to do something interesting.

If you've brought an X1000 and are happy with your purchase then good for you

How come that at least I do witness:
- There are more hardware choices then ever before in AOS4 world
- There is way more dirrection with OS4 then in time Amiga Inc ruled its development
- Those who haven`t agree with X1000 vision, haven`t presenting any competing hardware, so they just disagree, their right not to be customers
- Time to support X1000 hardware is needed because its small team, but without new hardware to support new OS features would not have much point, so chicken or the egg ...
-  (which let's face it, may never happen) You really believe 2GB RAM Barrier, support for other core and 3D may never happen, even its all promised for OS 4.2?
- X1000 users complain almost none, they all say their AmigaOS 4 experience improved with it, as well as it can do a lot sadly under Linux for now

[vox]

@vox
the critic at x1000 and the attempted aone xxx hardware line may be, say, "constructive" even from those who are not interested or not intending to buy one. a valid critic point is that it fragments the community even more at times where all attempt should be directed at consolidating it. producing expensive hardware, many cannot afford, drives people away if they are told they are not true amigans as long as they dont invest into it. introducing unique features on expensive systems that may lead to lack of compatibility with lower end systems is another dangerous move (think of xena as example) accidentally it has not got into effect until now, just because it has not taken off at all.

variety is a good thing and i applaud the idea of having more choice of hardware for whomever desires it (also x1k and the like). however there has to be some common denominator for the whole scene or at least notion towards it, instead of separatist tendencies to be observed now. the alternative being forced into something or excluded will not work out for the common good i fear.

Again, no one is saying someone using SAM 440 is NOT an Amigan - what a fake change of thesis.

There is no lack of compatibility with lower ends, they will just benefit less from new OS features (and thus may not all move to OS 4.2) and may find demanding apps like Libre or Timberwolf once done - slow but hopefully usable. But have lower alternatives surely in other apps.

I don`t see how X1000 makes further separation. Its like saying G5 support in MorphOS is further separation and not advancement.

It is biggest progress since it dictates new advanced features needed - 3D support for RadeonsHD had no meaning before SAM460, and so now SMP, breaking 2GB RAM barrier etc. And only Classic Blizzards could be left out (MorphOS did long time ago).

So I don`t see these as "valid criticism"

[vox]

Yep I think support for all of the X1000 features (dual core, 64bit, Xena, SATA etc) may never happen, would loved to be proved wrong of course.

Xena and SATA is there, only 64 bit mode is not planned for now - since its not a real speed up and might be needed to brake 4GB barrier, which is not at plan now. But basic ones like dual core and RadeonHD 3D are, as you know, announced for OS 4.2. So that means you don`t believe there will be ever OS 4.2 such as promised, even with reported progress and license pre purchase of all X1000 users?

Weird. So if it happens will you buy me a case of beer from your region? :-) :hammer:

[vox]

People pointing out that they disagree with spending 3,000$ for a computer thats missing drivers or that has components that are not even supported by the OS is not bashing, its just expressing an opinion some don't agree with.

You can drink the cool aid, but its still the truth that OS4 does not fully support the xena chip that was one justification for why the computer is or was so expensive. They might as well have just glued a mystery chip on the board and not even connected it for real, since years have gone by and still no one has shown os4 using this chip or the OS even supporting it in any meaningful way.

Hyperion has not said when or if the support will be there.

Hyperion has not said when the second core will be available for use.

Hyperion have not said when the drivers will be fully working.

People have a right to express their opinions without being labeled bashers for
doing so. If you drank the cool aid and can not even see why people are critical, then I feel sorry for you.

Its okay to be a dreamer, but just don't dream so much you lose sight of
reality entirely.

Its OK to be a critic, just don`t critise so much you lose sight of reality entirely.

You get AmigaOS 4.2 license with X1000, and as soon as its out for everybody its out for all X1000 users.

And you are just-not-up-to-date.
SATA and Audio drivers are out, only network remains onboard out of board components.

Dual core, 3D etc. is work in progress OS 4.2
http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=863

XMOS Support
http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=654

Just as an example, MorphOS faster, longer in development OS, with better development team
currently supports only single core on G5, 1GB RAM and no RadeonHD cards, and has no viable plans
when this will change.

[vox]

Interesting poll. (for a change)
POINT C IS ABSOLUTELY UNFORGIVABLE.

And its not just drivers its the LACK OF SOFTWARE thats the real problem. I mean $3500 us you can have a system you can learn AE, FCP, or whatever pro software on and make a living.  So its pretty hard to justfiy the price. Thats why i'm glad it runs on my peg2.

Its the same software base as with all AOS4 systems. There are no new only X1000 apps, but most demanding can use extra horsepower (e.g. video encoding, Timberwolf, AmiCygnix ...).

Same situation, or almost the same, is on MorphOS / AROS market.

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY UNFORGIVABLE!

So are we gonna bash them to death, too?

Don‚t forget the current Classics software side (Aminet ...)

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY UNFORGIVABLE!

I am glad Trevor started the software side on funding RadeonHD driver and LibreOffice. Major stepes once done. Deserves credit there in seeing what AOS needs.

[vox]

I think AEON, as a company, is trying to get stuff sold.  They are following a dead-end track to the very end.  Once they get there I don't think there is a plan B to save their efforts.  I think Trevor Dickinson is making an honorable effort to try to push the plan A solution but there really isn't much of a market for PPC desktop computers as a whole nowadays.

I think that the only hobby operating systems worth mentioning are AROS and Haiku.  AROS, because it is open-source, supports a number of processor architectures, and is largely self-supporting.  Also Haiku because it is multithreaded and pervasively object-oriented (not to mention largely open-source).  Both of those are fairly quick compared to modern commercial OSs on modern hardware.

We (AOS4, MorphOS users) ARE the PPC Market.

Its good you will support 68k AROS. I like you having informed choice.

But I do feel AmigaOS 4 has reached quite few milestones, and needs to be supported. Specially when A-EON got involved. Trevor is quite decent and open fellow and pushes things forward. He is beside Acube only one.

If all negative criticism is banned, censored, and so forth, then it  would lead one to believe that everyone thinks this hardware is  fantastic, or OS 4 is fantastic, etc. etc. etc. leaving us in a very  unfair and unbalanced situation. Border line propaganda at that.

 I say unban the other post, get on with reality.

Agreed, but I do remember myself being banned for C-USA criticism on few boards ... and it did not lead to everyone believed hardware and software are great and well priced.

Its not that I am for banning, but for balance.

I do agree its demanding to have AmigaOS expensive and dedicated machine, but so was always. Same would be with FPGA 68k or MorphOS, leave AROS aside as able to run on 68k and PPC too.

In my experience it is expensive, but somehow cheaper or same as with high end in Commodore era - having in mind fact that I was much poorer at the time. And decided to go for X1000 instead of high end Mac, just because of there is some path of progress for AOS4 and I want to add my 2 cents (well, way more) to it.

@olaf

You sound like you are doing marketing for a oldtimer or a piece of art   (f.e. painting) in a auction. But we are talking not about collectors   items but about computers that are today normal for everyone. That is   what the X1000 has to compare with and there it is completely crazy   overprized. And when I hear that the successor (propably) is not (much)   cheaper and that another planned model even more expensive then it  looks  completely insane. It would not work in the 68k community, not in  AROS  nor MorphOS camp and for sure not in the "outside world" but only  in  AmigaOS camp where a couple of hundred user seem to buy everything  at  any price when it is running AmigaOS. The AmigaOS users are melk  cows  but they seem to be happy with it. I personal had hoped that  Trevor  would invest his money to go in the opposite direction (cheaper  options  to get a bigger community) but it seems not. In the AROS world  people  are working on cheap options like ARM-based devices so I hope  this will  succeed.

Well X1000 can compete with existing market its on - I find it valuable and expandable enough to pay quite huge difference from similarly speced SAM 460. Yes, AmigaOne wasn`t cheap original, SAMs were neither for their perforance levels, but neither were Pegs2 or PPC Macs when they were new. It wasn`t such an extreme as X1000, but yet Trevor explained PA Semi alone costs 500-900$ now, and that they haven`t pushed the price up but rendered their profit margin down (no matter how strange that looks) to have X1000 sold some more.

In the end it will be limited series First Contact that was able to push AmigaOS 4 beyond. Kind of what top level G5 Macs are today.

ARM AROS sounds nice, but yet it will be 2nd or 3rd or 4th os on ARM based devices, just like it is with x86. I don`t see e.g. devoted AresOne line being cheap x86 selling in thousands.

Having choices of your own doesn`t negate ability of others to have choices, just like introducing right to someone else doesn`t
necessarily hurt right of your own.

So this kind of X1000 hate, was never before seen when e.g. Pegasos or MorphOS hardware was introduced.

remember there were long and dark time with no HARDWARE at all. Yes, now those who want AOS4, like I do, have to pay for custom hardware.

Would I be happier with Moana? Probably. But I do see that A-EON is doing something for that small AOS4 community and find it sad that its more bashed then leeches like C-USA / Roberto.

[vox]

Your comparison is flawed as the difference is that a few weeks ago I bought a cute 12" iBook G4/1.33Ghz with shipping included for 80€, that's pocket money I can use to "play" with my favourite OS and no wife/gf will complain about that. Do you think spending 80€ is the same as spending 1000, 2000 or 3000€?

If you put in the comparison AROS it's even more favourable for AROS as you can run Windows natively on it to do "serious stuff".

You could but spending 80€ on a toy is not the same as spending 2000€. If you don't own an  x1000 you are validating my point.

I do intend to do "serious stuff" (which in my job is word processing and excel) in Linux PPC on X1000 so its not fun only. But I do feel joy for its ability to boot AmigaOS, and look forward to see OS 4.2 and beyond using it more and more. Its great Trevor provided proper Linux support.

So validity is only price? x86 and PPC Mac users back in days must be all mad then :-)

Good. I can`t get PPC Macs on such low prices in this part of Europe, where they are still considered fetish and niche hardware. Surely its not the same, but I again do buy one computer.

Again, why paying 110$ for MorphOS when you had perfectly usable MacOS X or Linux PPC on same hardware - using the kind of logic what you are software wise able to do. So you have more for OS then for hardware box. Its different demonstration of logic why I and some people have decided to go X1000 - we will pay sacrifice for hardware price to drive software development, while you kind of did other way around. You payed for OS more then for hardware even it was kind of un-necessary for "serious bussiness"


Not saying that is a bad strategy since Genesi left - but Hyperion simply did not choose the same. As PPC Macs market slowly dissappears, MorphOS team will need to find next target. I am very glad for SAM 460 port of MorphOS and looking forward to see it at DJ Nicks machine.

My own parallel is: I could never afford BlizzardPPC or A4000 back in the days, I am happy that, with much sacrifice, I can afford X1000 now.

Just waiting for X1000 to be assembled and shipped, as sig says. Its paid.

Trevor efforts are important but keep in mind a RadeonHD driver is almost useless without 3D&Video acceleration (read: there's no much noticeable difference in 2D with let's say a R9800).

All in all. I don't think it's bashing, it's frustration from the Amiga community seeing that OS4.x Team is heading their favorite OS to disaster.

One in all, its a biggest step forward (what A-EON is doing) for AOS4 alone since original port and old A1 board. Why don`t I feel disaster you are predicting? Making PPC hardware possible, no matter the price, I do see as an achievement, as well as development for it.

you dont grasp the nuance or i am perhaps not deliberate about it. and please don mix morphos into it, they are actually (same as aros) providing a support for wide choice of mostly affordable hardware and i have never heard of morphos user or developer leaving the scene because he could not afford or justify the expenses to stay involved. on os4 this is definitely the case, it really takes dedication to stay with the platform. and this singling out only most dedicated and wealthiest as worthy members of the community instead to trying to spread the interest, gain young blood, seek to attract talented contributors not just some reach collectors is the mistake i talk about.

beyond that supporting multiple platforms with a single common effort (like aros does) is the actual contribution to variety of the community, instead of singling out just one of them, referring to it as only true superlative, and portraying the investment into it as only essential way to support the "amiga". and this is the other critic point.

Way better explained now.

I agree such strategy will not bring young blood, and I do disapprove level of stopping criticism by real users at Hyperions support forum. Things get locked so easily. Its better to have it then not to have it, but again questions raised there are by customers / registered users. Its not like C-USA with complete therads dissapearing, but is not a good strategy too.

As you do know, Acube provides nice entry system SAM 440. There are even loaner boards avail. I don`t know how many developers left specifically because of X1000 (please let me know who) because of frustration of not being able to pay for X1000. If I can manage a debt with 600EUR salary, I doub`t its impossible for people living in richer countries.

However, Trevor has provided some high end solution and software development and deserves credit for it. Not everyboody has a high end PC, or a Mac too. I have spend all the Classic days with A1200 020/28 FPU FAST RAM and didn`t just left it because I couldn`t get A4000.

Having new high end system usualy makes more affordable older boards on sale, so its not just loose-loose, it can be win-win

[vox]

I think it's the above that turns people off, rather than discussions. People who hoped for some kind of future involving expansion of the user base, easily realize when looking at contents of the above quote that there can't be no future; that with this chosen route there is no hope, no possible chance of expansion. This is what driving people away, the fact that it's nothing but a waste of time, better do something else.

Apart from cheaper hardware, situation with MorphOS (and to some extent AROS) is similar. Action to change situation is way better then moaning, and that is what Trevor does. There are few people doing something to make things better and deserve a credit.

but all people don't like all discussions, all people doesn't always agree, that's only natural in a pluralistic, open and free world, there is nothing bad in that, and if there is a thread or post you don't like, simply jump past the post or leave the thread altogether. It's really as simple as that.

Where is pluralistic, open and free world, please let me know. Its quite an illusion on Internet, as well as in capitalism. Not to mention in communism.

[vox]

The X1000 is poorly implemented and overpriced. How can one dare charge that amount of money for a prototype (especially when it is still not fully functional)

Hardware is fully functional and its not a prototype.
Fact that OS 4.1 does not support all its features (but Linux does) is well known. Having it out now is better then waiting 2014 or so for OS 4.2 to be out. As well as you get license for OS 4.2

Secondly, how is Raspberry Pi Foundation able to turn out computers for under US$50, yet we have not seen a similar priced native compatible Amiga 4.x system

It was a great kickstarter that have made them buy at huge quantities of anyway relativly cheap ARM hardware. So they were kind of prepaid. It is entirely different to risk your own (A-EON) money to build and sell something in small batches of 10-100 pieces with extremely expensive CPU.

I think it did push some people away, I was one of them
I was waiting to see what would be announced after Hyperion won their long running legal battle with Amiga Inc and was at that point considering buying into OS4.   When Hyperion's big plan turned out to be the X1000 launch, I lost interest in OS4 and decided to stick with classics instead.

They announced new partners and OS development. What is so bad? SAM 460 appeared, you could get that. I don`t understand how new expensive hardware (while lower end and middle SAMs avail) is to be blamed with your disappointed in Hyperion overall. Not to mention Amiga Inc did also promised cheaper ACK hardware that newer appeared. I do feel new breeze after the court case and au contraire, that has made me wish to support it even more. So A-EON could also positivly influence the situation.

Of course MorphOS is also a niche OS developed at a Hobby basis with a tiny user base, but MorphOS is still being actively developed and AFAIK there is actually a plan to migrate to a better platform/ISA and to introduce modern OS features, etc.

Everything is the same, beside Hyperion considering PPC to be a modern platform. Apart from announcement, we know even less of MorphOS migration then of AMP/SMP/multicore on OS 4.2. If we take X2000 as better platform/ISA you could just substitute MorphOS in your lines with AOS4.

And going x86 is not magic solution: it would probably like with Macs work on very few boards as there would be inability to support all board chipsets, gfx cards etc. so situation would be kind of similar, apart from cheaper and more powerful hardware. But I am honestly willing to bet AOS 4.2 would come faster then x86 MorphOS.

It was supposed to be the future of OS4, but when it turned out to be nothing but a poorly supported $3,000+ machine with 2005 level performance that never even was released in a proper way, then it suddenly became obvious to everyone that the plan had failed, that any hope of a future is gone.

No, to me, X1000 is success as high end model that provided platform to develop experience to make X2000. It would be availiable more time if it wasn`t using mythical PA Semi which will be corrected with X2000.

Its just showed how much AOS 4 has to go forward, and it pushed and made possible to develop more modern drivers and features. How do you think that could happen without having such high end?

And what happened to Pre/Box on MOS (as its real modern features part) - it just shifted to ABox x86. I could aslo call that a major failure of plans.

Its simply as small pond as it is where things don`t happen fast. But with A-EON, I see things delivered. Only Hyperion side I could wish is doing more progress, but again, have seen more updates in past two years then ever before. That is not a failure, but a progress. I do also wish to AROS and MorphOS.

And we don`t go around bitchin how poor support is for G5 Mac (which is about as much as OS 4.1.6 supports X1000)

Because this is one of the few last remaining myths/lies from Hyperion that is now unfolding and being revealed. SMP can't be done without breaking AMIGA, it's as simple as that. But Hyperion said it could, and they sold machines, dreams and hope based on this, collected money, used this as a false spec in dirty competition, etc. That's why this is important.

We ll see how multi core would be implemented in OS 4.2. Personally, I would be satisfied by using parallel processing of having one box (app or even Linux inside AOS4) per CPU.

Hardware is not falsely specified. It works under Linux, because AOS 4.1.6, just like MorphOS is single core OS currently.

And again, similar thing is what happened to Pre/Box on MorphOS? OS does not aim to AmigaOS compatibility and original goal was SMP. When it will come for G5 Macs? Will be at least any use of second core? To me its about as same promise that has somehow dissapeared - sandboxing that would enable use of cores. Even that is step forward for OSs that use just one CPU.

What is dirty competition for you? In such a small pond?

[vox]

"AOS 4.2 would come faster then x86 MorphOS."

Assuming that it will need years for MorphOS to make the shift to a new platform it is a easy bet :-)

The disappointment was because people expected Hyperion to drop PPC and go to new and more powerful hardware (X86/X64), instead the X1000 was announced who is again years behind competition (except price-wise). So it was clear that there will be no (or at least only few) new users and that thicks in the niche it is in. Perhaps people had more expectations and thought after the court settling that all what was hindering Hyperion is out of the way and they announce a new great strategy. And when this not happened they dropped the platform. Most stayed till their hardware died.

They could at least have SAM. So its not X1000 to be blamed per se, but Hyperions choice.

OK. But seeing that x86 transition might take years, I take staying PPC and developing OS also as a valid choice. And don`t feel bad about since I am used to having dedicated Amiga machine. Being second or third OS on an x86 machine will not bring a world conquest - look at AROS. I could really bitch about the price (because with it goes a bank debt that increases it even more) but I take it as consciouss choice that SAMs are quirky and limited in many ways and that is what I wanted as platform for current AmigaOS 4.1 and its development.

If you take x86 AmigaOS4 dream as quite an illusion (based on what?) I do feel much progress. I didn`t even expect support for high end RadeonsHD and port of Libre Office - but I do understand that as way to modernity.

Surely, Hyperion judges what is possible on their current resources, as well as MorphOS and AROS teams.

My own dream of AmigaOS 5 that would be (kind of as Amiga Inc TAO promised) CPU independent running on both PPC and x86 and ARM, while being based on look and feel of OS4, MOS and AROS, is just my dream. But it doesn`t mean I will not support what is on the table.

[vox]

These days, the Amiga name is used to earn 7000 Euro with a half-assed and mostly unusable browser port, to get a free $800 computer for designing some skins or to sell a piece of 2005 hardware at 1985 prices and actually make people pay upfront. That kind of stuff pisses me off.

Wow. What would you think of C=USA and Roberto if you judge TW bounty, DJ Nick and A-EON A1 X1000 harshly.

[vox]

If I wanted to run Linux I could do it on any x86-64 machine and it would be various times faster and better supported. Most of insteresting software runs on Windows. LinuxPPC would be my last choice if I wanted to run Linux. Even ARM distros are better supported.

Gladly there are Debian, Mint and Ubuntu that do quite well PPC support. I am not arguing ability of Linux to be run almost on anything, but I am arguing your past point that X1000 is merely just a toy. On Windows subject, yes, no one can beat its pro software except MacOS X.

The relationship price/features has always been much better on x86/Mac  even brand new because software base and speed compared to competition  is superior.

I am not sure because for same money you can get 2-3 times faster x86 that can have all the same software in Windows even better performance in Linux compared to Linux on Mac x86. When AMD beats Intel in same cash category, Wintel combo beasts MacOS X way more. But OS is charming and easy and Mac is prestigious. Here you pay just  hipster bonus that is not reality based.

Point was its not always a price/performance that is determining factor. Also, if Apple was so kind to try to take over the world, they would open MacOS X to as many x86 boards and cards by encouraging devs to do drivers and selling just the software. But they don`t and do kind of Hyperion thing, just on x86. Earning on hw-sw combo. Just on way bigger market and with way better OS.

Spot the difference? I haven't even talked about boards breaking and finding replacements easily.

Quite aware of these risks, but you should better ever not see how much Apple charges once warranty is out.

And spending 2500€ on a slow&rare&expensive board is easier?

Its way more harder, including bank debt interest, but is way to support AmigaOS growing more mature and watching it grow.

Because for that low price I can have a nice amiga experience easily,  it's peanuts compared to 2500€. If I used Amiga OSes as rarely as some  OS4 vocal supporters do (heck! some of them don't even use it) I could  even live with the 30 minute limit :-D

I ll try to do as much job and fun as software allows I to.

There's nothing "custom" about x1000 or PPC Macs, these are just  standard boards with PPC chip. IMHO Amigas were custom hardware, Dracos,  x1000, AmigaOne or PPC Macs were not. BTW: I don't care about using  "custom" hardware or not, but there's no single chip specifically  designed for x1000 (like Agnus, Denise, Paula or Gary were) so it's  quite funny some people insist on calling x1000 "custom hardware".

Well PCI and PCI-E bus are standards and no one is reinventing the wheel. Dracos were quite custom thing au contrare, in old school sense. But X1000 is quite custom considering beside Acube there are no other PPC boards on sale. When I today say custom I think of new design, that haven`t existed before and not reselling some one elses designs.
In those terms x86 Macs are not a custom hardware, but X1000 is.
XMOS was nice try to have that old school spirit.

I was thinking of old school custom thing, but designing new graphics and audio chips with major players is simply waste of time. And PCs won and were competative just because more choices were avail for PCI slots then Zorro expansions, even Amiga bus was clever, good and offered many expansions. So nothing wrong there, not to mention big Amigas in the past also had ISA slots, beside Zorro.

But there's nothing fancy about a standard PPC board released in  prototype-like numbers sold for a expensive price as a donlge to run one  of the incarnations of my favourite OS.

Oh its quite fancy just because of things mentioned as well as nice Fractal Design case :-) And same, expect extreme small numbers, could e.g. define Pegasos board.

If you set the price so high you reduce the number of possible users and  buying more expensive hardware doesn't help. Did AmigaOne SE, XE, uA1,  Sam440, Sam460, x1000 help to lower the prices of hardware? no, they  didn't. In fact the relationship price/features is much much much worse  now than when A1 was released.

I believe A1 was done in higher quantity then any of those. Amiga market did shirink in dark age WHEN THERE WAS NO HARDWARE.

Now bitchin is because its expensive. Its hard to keep people happy,
Surely if there are more Amigans, hardware would be cheaper, and if hardware would be cheaper if there were more Amigans. But its not an easy spell to brake.

Supporting Sam460 is a waste of time if you ask me, I would prefer that effort going to adding more features to the OS.

People do deserve their board well supported, and some of things like RadeonHD 3D driver should be an OS feature.

"Amigas" (even thought we are talking about an "AmigaONE" and not an  "Amiga") were never as expensive as now and never had so poor  relationchip between price and features. When Classic miggies were  released these had good price/features ratio, it could be better or  worse compared to PC/Mac but now it's way far behind.

There is a bit illusion: similar situation was about time of A1200/4000/CD32. It only worsen when market shrinked. To me, AmigaOne is Amiga successor.

Enjoy it, most of people who wants to try out OS4.x can't.

Thanks. They should go for SAM 440.

Perhaps you are overoptimistic. think about how many classic users you knew and think about how many of them would spend 2500€ let alone 1000€ on Amiga with the available software and the poor features of the OS...

They already did that in OS 3.1 times. But its their own money and desision. I see no other alternative to go forward except to support what is on the table, and hope in the end it will lead to well developed OS with some usable apps, and if and when possible cheaper hw and more users. Meanwhile, it is what it is, I don`t try to negate that, but to enjoy it.

[vox]

I happily invested in AROS because it was affordable for the amount of use I'd get out of it. I did the same for MorphOS for exactly the same reason. If that mythical AmigaOS netbook for around 300 smackers had showed had shown up, I would have gladly invested in it.
But 1k to 3k just so I can call myself a "true Amigan?" Sorry, it's not only a bad business strategy, it's just plain stupid and bashing it is perfectly valid.
Two cents...

No, its at least 250 euros for SAM 440 board to be able to use it.
Would love if it would be different, but it isn`t. Off course, if you wish
better hardware, cost goes higher.

Well, considering performance on Classics and  lowest SAM 440s of 500-600Mhz net book would be of limited use, even it would be affordable.

But we do hope for better lower end system. My vote goes for building a next Acube board and lowering price of SAM 460 Lite.

A-EON will remain in high end high cost region, kind like MacPros.