New Protracker - your input is welcome

[Teemu]

Well, a lot of the important stuff has been mentioned already, but I'll add a couple of things.

- Effect plugins applicable to a single channel, an x number of channels, or the entire mix. Preferably with an open API, so that 3rd parties can also write new plugins.

- Disk writer supporting at least WAVE and AIFF, maybe even OGG (MP3 would probably bring licensing problems?). An extremely cool feature would be 24bit/96KHz quality support here.

[legion]

It would be cool to see routines coded to use the EMU10k1 chip onboard the SB live.  The chip itself can mix 64 16-bit channels with effects with no CPU time.  I have gotten used to this method on my wintel box, as I do most of my  tracking with Impulse Tracker on my Gravis Ultrasound PNP / AWE64.  

And as mentioned above, a small plug-in player would be nice for developers to be able to use tracked music for games, webites, etc.

[Mike_Amiga]

I always found the menu system in protracker cluttered and over complicated. Improve it.

[Blomberg]

It's been a few years (a lot really), since I've used ProTracker, so I don't really know what recent versions are capable of, but a thing I have been missing in both Amiga and PC trackers is improved mapping capabilities.
To be able to use multisamples (of ALL keys) and map each sample to a different key on the keyboard, and being able to fine tune and transpose each sample individually.

Hi!

Great that someone wants to develop Protracker, but getting all those
new features will be a hard job. Are you developing alone ?

Hopefully there could be some kind of Open-Source Protracker-project,
because it would be almost impossible to make a near perfect tracker
alone.

Maybe there's still interest in some amiga-coders ?!? although Protrackers
source-codes have been available for quite a while now. Have thought about
setting up a team ? Even for a top-notch coder it would atleast take a lot
of time to make the current protracker4 into a complete new and good multichannel
tracker.

In my mind, I think it's necessary to focus on the key aspects of an tracker and
keep f.e Sample Editor to the basic because every can and should use SFX/Samplitude or
other specified program for sample editing. Just making a decent sample-editing software/plugin
would take "years" so maybe an Arexx-import/export option to an external sample-editor would do
the trick better.

[ruben]

>Great that someone wants to develop Protracker, >but getting all those
>new features will be a hard job. Are you developing > alone ?

ATM yes, but I'm not coding an entire tracker from scratch (that would be a daunting task). The new version will use a (possibly modified) port of the MikMod library, which already does the loading/playing bits which is the most complicated part when putting together a tracker.
It will eventually support plug-ins so more people can help by developing that.


I'd like to thank you all for your feedback! I hope to have a webpage for the project with more info and screenshots!

Cheers,
Ruben

[Kay]

:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D

Yay!!! Thank you for doing this. This is just what the new Amigas need: classic software freshened up. Imagine an old ex-user, thinking that the platform is completely dead, and then he sees PROTRACKER, in a new version running on a high resoltion screen. Okay, not a killer app on its own maybe, but it should send out a really positive message, and Protracker is a very recognizeable piece of software. I think it will be very good for the Amiga's "product identity".

Anyway, this is great news. I made a few modules in the old days. They were kind of crap, but it was great fun. Stuff I want the most in the new version:
*OS friendliness, in particular, OS4+AmigaOne friendliness.
*MIDI support. I wanna use my keyboard!!!
*Sorry if I am clueless, but: One of the things that annoyed me a bit when working with samples was that their length was altered when played at different frequencies (ie different tones). If there is any way of altering the frequency without altering the length, I want it implemented! :-)

Good luck! I really hope you succeed! :-D

Kay

[Waccoon]

All right!  It's about time someone starting rethinking the idea of a tracker (probably the only was I'll ever make music on a computer).

My biggest complaint about ProTracker was the awful GUI.  But then, I never liked the "standardized" GUI used in OctaMed 5, and later, OctaMed SoundStudio.  I think the MED 3.0 interface is pretty much ideal.   :-)  But hey, this is ProTracker, not MED.  Any ProTracker upgrade will be appreciated!

Features and gizmos are nice, of course, but the only things I'd really like to see different about any tracker includes sample compression and stereo/sensurround support.

Compression is really mandatory.  Sample quality has improved a lot, and with stereo support, mods can get really huge.  It really annoys me when 3-4 meg "modules" start showing up, in which case you might as well just make an MP3.  Besides, decompression is REALLY getting insanely fast these days.  I'd be more opt to support OGG compression.  It's good, free, and free of patent issues (for now), so people might as well.

I'd also like to see proper panning and sensurround support.  Panning was possible with FastTracker, but a real pain.  I'd be nice to see what people can do with sensurround audio, too.

Personally, I think filtering, echo, reverb, and other audio effects can wait.  I would just like to see a new interface, for now.

[Blomberg]

Kay wrote:
*MIDI support. I wanna use my keyboard!!!
*Sorry if I am clueless, but: One of the things that annoyed me a bit when working with samples was that their length was altered when played at different frequencies (ie different tones). If there is any way of altering the frequency without altering the length, I want it implemented! :-)

Ah yes, MIDI support is mandatory  :-D
And yes, it would be great to have some sort of pitch shift - time preserved and vice versa but maybe this is more a job a plugin, I donno.

@ Wacoon
Music in surround???  :-D
Call me old fashioned but what's wrong with stereo? Surround is for movies and games.  :-D

[4pLaY]

A port to AROS in due time  :-D.

[buzz]

Some ideas...

Multichannel
Full envelope Control
Advanced Realtime Effects
(Phase shift/Echo/etc etc)
Which can all be  be combined
(For example Pitchbend with sample offset changing with phase shift and echo :-) )
Support for Synthetic as well as Sampled instruments
(With control over waveform/ADSR/and more - like in ahx)
Multitasking, but still using asm for some parts making it fast and useable on 680x0
XPK/XFD/XAD Support
AHI Support but with also direct drivers for toccata output etc

That will do for now :-)

Perhaps you can keep me posted on progress buzz@totem.fix.no . Also, maybe you should post this to exotica forum as some music lovers there who might have some good ideas for you

http://exotica.fix.no

(Although server is being upgraded right now, web might be down for some hours)

[SimoAmi]

Hi ruben,

Having experience with Digital Music software applications, I can recommend few things.

First, don't take PC applications as weak. You should use some of them to enjoy few features that you would think would make the best version for Protracker.

For example, I always thought that Fruity loops would be the best upgrade to protracker. they have the same philosophy and I bet anyone that almost all editing features in Protracker can be done over Fruity Loops with Mouse point, click and tweak.

The next generation trackers for Amiga (although actually existing in PC/Mac) is Object Oriented editing. Gui based editing where parameters are knobs and triggers are buttons and list of commands are dialog boxes.

Since I was using Octamed, I thought it would be nice having 2 modes:

- Pattern mode: edit singular patterns or pages (32/64/128 or any lenth of lines).

Ref:
- Song Mode: (what I would love to see) paint and drag patterns over a timeline, like on Acid Pro.

Also it's nice to have VST and VSTi plugins support.

for song import/export you could make an expandible design concept where anyone can contribute and make a native song format loader (.mid, .flp, .xm, .mod, .med...etc)

for that to work you need to design a virtual system that can support any capabilities related to a song format. (e.g: unlimited instruments, unlimited tracks, 24 bits output, sound blaster dsp support, mp3 decoding and DirectToDisk based instruments.

some visual design:

[xeron]

NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO!
DO NOT TURN IT INTO FRUITYLOOPS.

I want a tracker interface. Not all of us have MIDI keyboards you know, and fruityloops method of inputting patterns is totally horrible without one.

[Blomberg]

I agree (in part) with Tickly, don't turn it into Fruity.

Keep the pattern interface the way it is, or else it won't be a tracker anymore, besides I can't stand Fruityloops's (and other newer apps) way of putting everything on buttons. I know it's done to mimic real hardware sequencers and drum machines, but let's not forget that this is software, there *are* better ways than buttons, besides, point and click interfaces can only go so far as far as productivity is concerned, once you're in a routine point and click is simply too slow (and a hassle). Even though I'm currently a Reason user, I *never* use the buttons on the drum machine because it's limited what you can do with it compared to a full sequencer and (as I said before) a hassle to use.
The usual tracker interface would be ideal for me, though with the ability to colour some rows in a different colour so you don't get lost in the rows and columns.

I do agree, however, that a more easily managed 'song mode' as Simo calls it would be a good idea. That's where I usually get lost when using trackers once the song gets too big with too many parts (or patterns or whatever you call them).

[SimoAmi]

Tickly wrote:
NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO!
DO NOT TURN IT INTO FRUITYLOOPS.

I want a tracker interface. Not all of us have MIDI keyboards you know, and fruityloops method of inputting patterns is totally horrible without one.

I'm not saying that he should turn it into Fruity Loops, I'm just trying to illustrate few concepts.

Line based editing (old-fashion trackers) is good but I prefer the new interactive way.
For instance, instead of typing 4 similar notes with different velocities to simulate an echo, I would prefer to tweak knobs avoiding the need to manually change the velocity value for each note!

Protracker has a very good engine, it's just the interaction with the user that needs enhancements.

In my own experience, I never thought any of these modern GUI based apps would replace my OctaMed, but, with time it appeared that I can do better things with these gadgets and faster. I no more have to remember the Hex code for volume, or for chorus,
and I'm no more limited to one parameter per note.

Finally, I just exposing few concepts that some may interest the developer (not all). You're to do the same and he's the one to make the last decision.

btw: (Tickly) you don't need to have a MIDI keyboard to use Fruity Loops. You can turn your pc keyboard to trigger sounds with a feature included in the application
 

[mahen]

Yeah, good luck and thanks Ruben

(BTW thanks for bringing Immortal

Of course, it'll support any amiga compatible
OS through rtg / ahi.

But why do people always only mention AOS 4 ?
MOS is as amiga-ish as OS 4 and at least as
real And both have the same aim : PPC  native
amigaOS, that'll then extend into something else.
(OS 5 ADE, MOS QBOX)

Anyway, great thing, we really need such a piece
of software