User wants (from "Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology")

[Iggy]

...I think most classic users want to see the Amiga grow into what COULD have been, like the NATAMI promised.  Many will say that Commodore was going the direction of PowerPC/OS4 anyway, but I don't think that's what classic users want.  They want to see things improved along the lines of the original Amiga chipset, maybe what AAA would have been and beyond.  That's what I want too.  For everything else I'll just use a PC!

From what Dave Haynie says, Commodore was going to move to a RISC platform.
And perpetual backwards compatibility rarely occurs.
Most X64 systems have trouble running legacy programs.
What makes you think that if the Amiga had survived it wouldn't be a vastly different system by now?

You do realize the the AAA chipset was not meant to be an upgrade, rather it was a replacement.

Right now, the primary problem I have with OS4 is that it struggles too hard to retain the look, feel, and basic structures of previous versions of Amiga OS.

Your position is not particularly attractive to me.
FPGAs CAN'T approach ASICs in performance.
The only reason that they perform better than a real 68K is that that processor is SO dated.

So if I were to follow your logic, I would find myself waiting for the fulfillment of fantasy projects that, even if they are produced, would not be competitive.

Personally, I can't see our market expanding without drawing in new users. And legacy hardware has limited appeal to anyone not already familiar with the Amiga.

So the real challenge is not to cater to community members like you, but to make the NG OS' powerful enough to be reasonable substitutes for more mainline hardware.

[Iggy]

@Kremlar

I understand your position, I just don't agree with it.
I'm enjoying a reasonably modern platform with MorphOS.
And while neither MorphOS and OS4 support Flash (which is also a problem with Linux), we do have html5 (which is a much more efficient package).

But, should a legacy emulation system be produced (in HARDWARE not UAE), I too would be interested in the nostalgia exploring such a system would bring.

I'm just not sure that that course offers much of a future.
After all, I can buy a Sega genesis emulation system, but that does make Genesis games any more appealing.

And that is just one thing that NG can support that is a nice improvement (and trust me, games dedicated to an NG platform generally look better than legacy Amiga), browsers and other practical apps run better on more powerful hardware.

[Iggy]

@matthey

Yes, yes..."We can make it right this time and it will be our salvation".

I have heard that before.

That is not how computer systems evolve, constantly trying to refine old hardware platforms.

Instead new ideas are added in that improve the product.

Look at the Mac, not 68K based, not PPC based, now X64 based.
With FreeBSD underpinnings that are totally dissimilar to the original core.
BUT, the look and feel are there.

In fact, if asked to choose, I'd always take the more evolved package.

Further, the 68K and the Amiga chipset are both so dated that no matter how much you try to supplement them they will still be somewhat archaic.

AND some of those people you have mentioned have strung the community along for years.
When is the Natami going to be released?
Probably at the same time as the SharkPPC and the new improved version of WarpOS.

Finally, do you really think that new ASICs are going to be created to carry on the legacy of...well legacy hardware?
Why not follow Apple's lead and forego custom designed chips and buy 'off the rack'?

[Iggy]

...Sorry to disappoint you, but I never missed "the original Amiga chipset, maybe what AAA would have been and beyond". A PCI busboard with off-the-shelf graphics card, soundcard and a network interface card had far more to offer for the money...

YES!
Off the shelf components are cheaper and they perform better.
AND we don't have to foot the bill for design and prototyping.

Even with the move to PPC, we weren't paying for the design of the chips, just the design of the boards.

And it all works well.
Place an OS4.1 or MorphOS machine next to a legacy system and you will quickly see which is more practical.

[Iggy]

Geehh... stop it already, you are killing me!! :laughing:

Yeah, that one just keeps me in stitches too!
Even taken in totality, our various directions don't even make a blip on those projects radar.

AND, I am not anti-68K (I used to build systems based on those - when it was practical to do so), nor do I wish AROS or OS4 any harm.
Just thought I'd straighten that out since everyone does seem so polarized.

[Iggy]

My workbench is something like 800x600 in 256 colors, but never mind that. The point is: None of the "Amiga" systems is suitable for productive work anyhow. It's a system for retrocomputing, and the 68K does exactly that. So never mind running a workbench at 640x256 because that's exactly how it is supposed to be. If you want to run productive work, there's a PC.

Right, and you have a good web browser, and applications like blender ported to your system.
Listen, I don't need complete Amiga compatibility (outside of games, the applications don't have much utility).

And you can have your stamp collection, the only use I have for stamps is more practical.
I use them.

When you get to something like Natami, let me know, because it will have added capabilities.
The current run of "a little faster than an A1200"  FPGA systems don't hold much interest in me either.

Its what I can use or create that governs my decision.
And a stock AGA doesn't cut, an enhanced Amiga is to expensive and has a limited market, and an FPGA only offers slight advantages.

Wake me up when legacy has really improved graphics and sound.

[Iggy]

[off topic]
Oh yes - good old Ian.
Too sad that Jon passed away few years ago!
So I will never ever have the chance again to see my favourite band live again in its best lineup (Ritchie Blackmore, Ian Gillan, Jon Lord, Ian Paice and Roger Glover).
But noone can take my memories of their concerts away!

And best of all:
When Ritchie had his first Rainbow gig in Cologne in 1976, he smashed his guitar in the old Deep Purple fashion and threw the parts into the audience. That's where I got the neck of his guitar...

[/off topic]

EDIT:
Maybe you want to add another quotation:
" 'Tradition' is not to preserve the ashes but to pass on the flame!"
(Thomas Morus, 07. 02. 1478 - 06. 07. 1535, London)

That is Great!
I will use it.

And Blackmore's Rainbow?
Funny you mentioned it.
I've been playing a lot of the Dio era stuff lately.
Its an interesting shift for Ritchie.
A band that could still play "Mistreated" but that had a somewhat different sound.
After all, "Lady of the Lake" does NOT sound like a Deep Purple song.

I'm not too keen on the post Blackmore Deep Purple stuff.
They have one of my favorite guitar players, Steve Morse, but his style doesn't mesh well.
Although "Vincent Price" isn't bad.

In honor of Halloween, y'all should check out that one.

And you have the neck of Blackmore's guitar...very cool.

Addendum - The original RX-7 (with its RX-3 underpinnings) was an interesting low priced performance car with a very different engine.
But the RX-8 is SO much better (even if the costs got outrageous).

BTW - Sorry for the off topic posts.

[Iggy]

Mehh.... I much preferred my 3rd gen RX-7 twin turbo to the RX-8.  But yeah, clearly superior to the original RX-7.  Original RX-7 has great styling for its time, though, and I think the RX-8 was a bit too friendly looking and bland.

Oh, I rather like the styling of the RX-8, especially the suicide passenger doors.
But its not meant to fulfill the role of the original RX-7.

And those later model RX-7s had some interesting, if failure prone, hardware like active suspension components.

To be truthful, I rather like the original RX-7 and its predecessor the RX-3.
At one time, I had the demented idea of putting an RX-7 engine and other components into a Mazda GLC (which also shares an RX-3 legacy).

These days, that would be pointless since we have decades of vehicles like the Gti with higher output motors in economy car chassis.
But back then?
It would have been cool to smoke someone who thought they had a performance advantage over you.

Rather like the looks I got from people in '85 when my dull silver Dodge Omni GLH (with all the decals removed) - through my rear view mirror.

Edit - Stop drawing me off topic guys.

" 'Tradition' is not to preserve the ashes but to pass on the flame!" - Thomas Morus, (07. 02. 1478 - 06. 07. 1535, London)

There is a good phrase to summarize the state of affairs in the Amiga community.
So would the 'stamp collectors' stop harping on their use of legacy hardware?

FPGAs, PPCs, or X64. Onward and upward.

[Iggy]

Not a problem.
The GT40 and Blackmore's back catalog, both good reasons to remember the late '60's and early '70's fondly.
And the Ford GT?
I think they were just trying to prove that they could still kick Italian butt if they wanted to.

And thanks again for another reminder that technology moves on.
After all, the GT was SO more refined than a road worthy LeMans card would be.

[Iggy]

The 3rd gen RX-7 never had "active suspension components".

Sorry, I must have miss heard it when a friend told me his RX-7's shocks weren't working correctly because the the control system was on the fritz.

I've never been a big fan of Ford sports cars but the Ford GT(40) is an exception. I like that the Ford GT look is so close to the original but I wish they had brought the price down for the masses even if the performance would have been less. The 3rd gen RX-7 was getting a little expensive for the time as well. My favorite affordable sports car concept today would be something like the Lotus Elise/Exige (a fun lightweight driving machine). There are parallels in my mind with the Amiga and sports cars as well. The original Amiga was a computer for the masses with a great driving experience which put the user in control. The new Amigas are computers for the (elite) classes which few will experience and some of the changes are not improvements.

Well the GT40 actually started life as a Lola design (which explain why it looks so good).
Lotuses? I spent years talking my self out of a Lotus 7 recreation.

And I share your general dislike of most Ford sports cars.
Except for the '69 fastback model, I've never understood the whole Mustang thing.

BTW - About this A-eon proposal...:laugh1: