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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: gdanko on September 14, 2010, 02:35:57 PM

Title: Commodore USA
Post by: gdanko on September 14, 2010, 02:35:57 PM
I became fascinated with the, for a lack of better words, drama around this new Commodore USA and its CEO Barry Altman. Then I remember seeing the Commodore name being used for on high end Windows "gaming" systems awhile back and how that appalled me. So I emailed Barry at Commodore USA to offer complaints about offering Windows machine and some suggestions. The text of my email is here:

---
Barry,
While I am a firm believer in the rights to be protected against libelous speech, I am also very leery of Commodore USA and what they're producing. If it's the same Commodore USA from about two years ago, all I saw were some fancy PC clones with Commodore logos on them. Remember, Windows is the epitome of what Commodore was NOT and to put the Commodore name and/or logo on a Windows PC is an abomination.

If you REALLY want to honor the Commodore name and legacy, you would consider one or more of the following:

1) Invest money/resources in the AROS project to help them make it truly usable. As we stand, it's not all that viable for daily use.
2) Invest in the MorphOS project/aid in an x86 port of the entire MorphOS system. MorphOS is far more advanced and polished than AROS at this point. To have an x86 port of MorphOS on a solid piece of hardware with a well-thought design would be awesome. It's doable but the resources are stretched thin as is.

Selling Windows-based run of the mill PCs with the Commodore logo is a travesty and a slap in the face to Commodore loyalists. I know business is business but to me it's sickening.

And yeah I know Linux is an option. But Windows is ever-present and I would be ashamed to buy a Commodore machine today.
Gary
---

Barry was more than willing to put his money where his mouth is and offered me his phone number at Commodore USA so we could talk over the phone. We had a 30 minute conversation and these are the major takeaways I took from the conversation.

* Barry is not simply some schmuck trying make a dime off the Commodore name.
* Barry has been in electronics and manufacturing for 25+ years
* Barry's family has a long successful history of entrepreneurship, going back to the B. Altman and company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._Altman_and_Company) department store which was started by his great (or great great) grandfather.
* Barry still owns furniture factories which produce furniture for high-end brands like Thomasville, which I am a fan of an own.

* Regarding the usage of the image(s), he said he wanted an image and found that one concept image, looked in vain for the owner, but could not find him. The image was put up on the site in hopes that the owner would come out of the woodwork and ask to have it removed or for royalties, neither of which happened. The email address was cropped out because it was a bogus address but later re-added so people would stop whining. At this point he would still like to contact the artist for permission to use the image.
* Acknowledges the poor quality of the web site and is actively looking for web developers. If you are a talented web developer and can show proof of your work, please contact him as they are actively looking to improve the web site.
* Has nothing to do with the company who created those beefy Windows boxes with the Commodore logo on them or the company who made Commodore-branded MP3 players.
* Reveled to me that the Commodore name is owned by a company in the Netherlands and that he has full exclusive right to use the Commodore name and logo. This has been arranged through said company. Fully willing to show me proof of this licensing.
* Has license to use the Amiga name and logos (boing ball, checkmark, etc) for all products. Does NOT have license to use Amiga OS, AmigaOS or derivatives. Also willing to show proof of licensing.
* Has true desire to make real machine for a hobbyist market. Has a design group that has actually designed these cases and boards. In fact, while we were speaking he had put the phone down to take a call from their motherboard manufacturer. I was able to hear his end of the several minute conversation and unless it was a ruse, it's all legitimate.

* Was fully open to my suggestion of supporting development of an x86 MorphOS port. I told him how I felt it was eons beyond AROS and he said he'd love to contribute to a port. How technically feasible this is, I don't know. But after having spoken to some experienced OS developers I was told that it IS possible, it just depends on how willing you are to work on it.
* Was fully open to committing resources, financial or otherwise, to bringing AROS to the state MorphOS is at in order to create a true modern Amiga not tied to Hyperion. In fact he said that when he tried to get driver development kickstarted he received criticism as if he was some sort of infidel.

Unlike Bill McEwen, Barry Altman is more than willing to converse with  people and answer their questions. I told him I would keep our conversation completely confidential and he told me, "I wish you wouldn't. Please share anything I tell you because I want people to know the truth.". So here I am. Barry seemed to be frustrated by the herd mentality of the forum communities and quite frankly, I am too. Yeah many of us have had ill dealing with the likes of Doomy but Barry has slighted no one. He's trying to make interesting computers with the Commodore name.

Before you light your torches and beat down a path to his door, I'd say communicate with the guy. Offer suggestions, he is extremely open to dialogue with the community if that dialogue is intelligent and insightful.

Lastly, I want to say that I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation and I found Barry Altman to be an intelligent and interesting man to talk to. He was courteous, friendly, and no question was off limits. He was fully willing to answer anything I had for him. Since our conversation was a few days ago I may have an inaccuracy or two so I will be forwarding this post to him so he can correct any of my mistakes. Give the guy a chance, I honestly think he's on the level.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Piru on September 14, 2010, 02:42:44 PM
Quote from: gdanko;579238
* Was fully open to my suggestion of supporting development of an x86 MorphOS port.

Could you please stop that?

We don't want to have anything to do with this guy.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: gdanko on September 14, 2010, 03:01:36 PM
Quote from: Piru;579239
Could you please stop that?

We don't want to have anything to do with this guy.


You have your opinions on certain subjects and I have mine. If you don't want to deal with the guy, tell him so. And if you don't want me to express my opinions, then please do me the same courtesy as yours are often inflammatory and combative. Unless you're willing to reciprocate, do not make the request.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: CSixx on September 14, 2010, 03:16:10 PM
Your new thread here looks just like the last one.
What was your point?

You went into the conversation as a sceptic and after 10mins of con-man talk, you are a fanboy. Whoopee...
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Kronos on September 14, 2010, 03:21:29 PM
Quote from: gdanko;579238


Unlike Bill McEwen, Barry Altman is more than willing to converse with...  


The Bill&Barry Show were more than happy to "converse" with the community, many people even thought of them as being nice. Those are the must-have trades of any scammer.

All NotC=USA told you is marketing BS and side-stepping.

If really is such a successfull buisnessman and if he has soooooo big plans regarding a new "true" Commodore, why is all we see of it stolen images, faux legal threads and extremly crappy Windows-PC with a 2ct logo-sticker ?

Walks like a duck, looks like a duck, quaks like a duck ....
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: gdanko on September 14, 2010, 03:22:03 PM
Quote from: CSixx;579250
Your new thread here looks just like the last one.
What was your point?

You went into the conversation as a sceptic and after 10mins of con-man talk, you are a fanboy. Whoopee...


No, I am not a fan boy. I am stating that it's foolish to follow the herd mentality which is what I see most people doing. No one wants to give someone the benefit of the doubt and would rather listen to idle rumors, gossip, and conjecture as a basis to form their opinions. All I am saying is, give someone a chance to stand on their own integrity and not skewer them based on rumors and gossip.

Tell me how it's con-man talk? If you are going to make accusations you should at least be able to back them up. If you were in court and were asked to back up your claims, could you?

This guy can provide full documentation of his credentials and history. Can you prove your claims that he is a con artist? If you can, I would encourage you to do so. Does he have a criminal history that is public record? Has he personally conned you out of something?

Or... are you following the herd and condemning him before he's gone afoul?

If he ends up harming the community I will complain loud but at this point the man's harmed no one. You are a small-minded fool who is content to convict someone without a trial. You'd have done well in the US South during the 19th century.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: mongo on September 14, 2010, 03:29:05 PM
Quote from: gdanko;579238

* Barry has been in electronics and manufacturing for 25+ years


And yet Barry doesn't seem to know the difference between FCC Class A and FCC Class B certification.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: CSixx on September 14, 2010, 03:33:30 PM
Quote from: gdanko;579254
Tell me how it's con-man talk? If you are going to make accusations you should at least be able to back them up. If you were in court and were asked to back up your claims, could you?


Spare me the hypothetical garbage.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: gdanko on September 14, 2010, 03:34:51 PM
Quote from: mongo;579257
And yet Barry doesn't seem to know the difference between FCC Class A and FCC Class B certification.


I am going to unsubscribe to this thread for one reason. I went into this thinking he was was a scheister but I figured I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. We had a long conversation and his answers satisfied my questions. I thought it was an interesting conversation, but I didn't expect a barrage of hate-mongering from lemmings in the forum community. I expected too much from such an childish bunch. Even Piru, who I disagree with most of the time, was short and to the point. He did not level childish accusations toward the man and simply stated he'd prefer not to deal with him. For that, I applaud him. The rest of you are beyond ridiculous.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: gdanko on September 14, 2010, 03:36:05 PM
Quote from: CSixx;579258
Spare me the hypothetical garbage.


One last one since this is so easy. You have proven my point. You're talking out your ass and cannot back up a word you say. Until you can be a man and back up your claims, you're no better than my two year old son when he doesn't get his way.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: CSixx on September 14, 2010, 03:39:34 PM
I don't have anything to back up or defend.
It's my opinion that you are a fanboy, and altman is a con-man.
Happy?

Edit: These threads must be the job-application process for CUSA, it worked for their CTO.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: mongo on September 14, 2010, 03:43:51 PM
Quote from: gdanko;579238
* Barry's family has a long successful history of entrepreneurship, going back to the B. Altman and company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._Altman_and_Company) department store which was started by his great (or great great) grandfather.


Benjamin Altman, Barry's "great (or great great) grandfather" never married and had no children.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: BigBenAussie on September 14, 2010, 03:45:30 PM
Just a few corrections.
Quote

* Acknowledges the poor quality of the web site and is actively looking for web developers. If you are a talented web developer and can show proof of your work, please contact him as they are actively looking to improve the web site.

This is actually further along than he realises, from a professional web design company in Australia. He hasn't been in communication with them like I have, and I am yet to update him on their progress. It's more than web design, but a full e-commerce and CRM solution.

Quote

* Was fully open to my suggestion of supporting development of an x86 MorphOS port. I told him how I felt it was eons beyond AROS and he said he'd love to contribute to a port. How technically feasible this is, I don't know. But after having spoken to some experienced OS developers I was told that it IS possible, it just depends on how willing you are to work on it.

It would be remiss of me not to consider all our options. When I contacted Team MorphOS, Ralph S told me they had no intention of porting to x86 any time soon. I think Barry missed this minor detail in one my e-mails. Not to worry.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: tone007 on September 14, 2010, 03:48:02 PM
Quote from: mongo;579266
Benjamin Altman, Barry's "great (or great great) grandfather" never married and had no children.


This was pretty great.

Quote from: Iggy

Here's what I got in response to the concerns we've voiced. Some of it's a little harsh, but then so have some of our comments here.

"Here's a blast you can relay to the forum members, please quote exactly:
Commodore USA was not set up as charity to support the development of AROS. It holds less than nothing of interest or importance to me, or 99.999999% of our intended market. It is a product that I or any other company could not use at all, as it has NO commercial value now, as is. So why are you all so concerned??
Our support was to help the group move ahead, and be part of a niche hobby group that seemed initially to be fun. I was wrong. Although some members expressed calm, sane, accurate and positive and open viewpoints, far too many exhibit behavior that is truly reprehensible. What is most amazing is the behavior and comments of the 'Moderators" UNREAL!! Aros is not a commercial product; it is not even close to a beta functional OS that has any use at this point in it's development. Why some of you oppose the ONLY viable source of support is beyond me. Never has AROS received any promotion or publicity that comes remotely close to that that was gotten since my intended involvement. Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth. Why some of you find every facet of my life of interest is really sad. Don't you have lives to live?

I'll address some comments in particular. This is business, not nursery school. You know how much was spent and paid for the Commodore and Amiga IP over the last 15 years. Do your homework…we are talking close to 100 million dollars cumulative over all these years and by all the corporate entities that played the game. Price of entry is steep, and so is execution. Iggy has tons of more info that for some reason he chose not to share with you all.

As far as using abandoned artwork, no problem here. Marko Hirv cannot be reached. Period. I tried. No luck. And yes, I did email the company he is at now….again no reply. Find him…I'll deal with him, or anyone else that falls into that category. Ever hear of an Iphone, boys and girls? Guess what…Jobs used it, took it, made it his own…knowing all the time it was the IP of Cisco. Ever hear of iTV, another recent product of the Apple guys. Also, no ownership…take it …use it…and then buy it if you must. Lawyers make a ton and the company gets what it wants, and the IP holder is paid. All good, no? That's just a small example of how business is. I am not saying it is right, just giving you a lesson in reality.

Oh…..ONE MORE THING !!!! All you self righteous self appointed moral compasses out there with the huge mouths and not much else. JUST WHO LICENSED AMIGA.ORG THE AMIGA TRADEMARK PROPERTY APPEARING ON YOUR BANNER MASTHEAD??? NO ONE!!
Any comments on that flagrant violation of trademark law? I'll be most interested in a reply to that one. Very interested.

So, enjoy your little clubhouse, I wish you well, and am sorry my leap into your little pond caused such an uproar. I never knew such muddy pond could even exist.

Barry"
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: mongo on September 14, 2010, 03:49:56 PM
Quote from: gdanko;579259
I am going to unsubscribe to this thread for one reason. I went into this thinking he was was a scheister but I figured I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. We had a long conversation and his answers satisfied my questions. I thought it was an interesting conversation, but I didn't expect a barrage of hate-mongering from lemmings in the forum community. I expected too much from such an childish bunch. Even Piru, who I disagree with most of the time, was short and to the point. He did not level childish accusations toward the man and simply stated he'd prefer not to deal with him. For that, I applaud him. The rest of you are beyond ridiculous.


The Commodore Phoenix is, according to it's own manual, an FCC Class A device, meaning that it can only be sold for commercial and industrial use. It can not legally be sold for home use in the USA.

What do you think Commodore USA's target market is?
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: mongo on September 14, 2010, 03:55:57 PM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;579267
Just a few corrections.

This is actually further along than he realises, from a professional web design company in Australia. He hasn't been in communication with them like I have, and I am yet to update him on their progress. It's more than web design, but a full e-commerce and CRM solution.


Yes, but will his $19.98 per month CityMax web hosting deal support that?
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: BigBenAussie on September 14, 2010, 03:56:55 PM
Quote
These threads must be the job-application process for CUSA, it worked for their CTO.

You have no idea as to what my contribution has been behind the scenes. That is just a cheap shot. Having had, at the time, some knowledge of what was going on, I merely wanted to correct the wild accusations thrown his way.
As for my credentials I am not a random fanboy, although I would certainly not say that I am the most qualified person in the room. I have a comp sci degree and 15 years of software development experience, have worked on large scale projects for fortune 500 companies, led teams, consulted in the US and Europe.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: BigBenAussie on September 14, 2010, 03:59:35 PM
@mongo
Quote

Yes, but will his $19.98 per month CityMax web hosting deal support that?

Forget that Citymax abomination. That web site was started well before the trademarks.
Time to get serious obviously.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: tone007 on September 14, 2010, 04:08:43 PM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;579274
Time to get serious obviously.


(http://hkustinternational.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/darkwing_duck.jpg)

                  LET'S GET DANGEROUS.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: CSixx on September 14, 2010, 04:10:41 PM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;579273
That is just a cheap shot.

A bit of a cheap shot admittedly. But a bit true also :)
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: BigBenAussie on September 14, 2010, 04:19:30 PM
@mongo
Quote
Benjamin Altman, Barry's "great (or great great) grandfather" never married and had no children.


Barry asked me to post this in response.

B. Altman and the Fleishmans
When Sophia returned to New York with her children after her husband's murder, her brother Morris led the business that had been founded by their father. In 1872, however, the youngest Altman sibling, Benjamin, established his own “fancy” and dry goods store under the name “B. Altman and Company.” Morris died suddenly at the age of thirty-nine in July 1876, leaving Benjamin to manage the family businesses. At the time of Morris Altman’s death, the Altman brothers were already quite successful merchants and employed over two hundred people. Morris had been a greatly respected businessman and was a prime mover behind the effort toward advocating shorter working hours for dry goods clerks (New York Times, July 14, 1876, p. 4. Henry Hall, ed., America’s Successful Men of Affairs: An Encyclopedia of Contemporaneous Biography, vol. 1 (New York, 1895-96), 16). Morris’ widow died shortly after him and Benjamin assumed responsibility for raising Morris’ four children. Consequently, in addition to operating a large and growing business, Benjamin Altman, thirty-six years old, now had ten fatherless young nieces and nephews in his care. These burdens may very well explain why Benjamin never married and had children of his own.
At his death in 1913, the New York Times estimated Altman to be worth forty-five million in real estate, art holdings and his B. Altman stock (New York Times, October 8, 1913). He donated his celebrated art collection to the Metropolitan Museum Art which was acclaimed at the time as the “most splendid gift that a citizen has ever made to the people of the city of New York” (Metropolitan Museum of Art, Guide to Altman Collection, 13. His collection included, at various times, thirteen major Rembrandts). Altman also became known as a patron of American artists and was commended as a philanthropist who avoided publicizing his charitable works. A biographical note commended Altman for his devotion to the care and education of Morris’ four orphaned children (Hall, America’s Successful Men, 17). Altman remained attached to Judaism and was a member of Temple Emanu-El. After Altman’s death in 1913, Adam Schiff unsuccessfully urged the editors of the Evening Post to mention that Altman “had lived and died as a Jew” (David Levering Lewis, W.E.B. Du Bois - Biography of a Race, 1868-1919 (New York, 1993), 488-9). Altman left his store, B. Altman & Co., in the care of his foundation for the benefit of charitable causes and the employees.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: mongo on September 14, 2010, 04:25:21 PM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;579274
@mongo

Forget that Citymax abomination. That web site was started well before the trademarks.
Time to get serious obviously.


The time to get serious has long since passed.

It's pretty much a total farce by now.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: BigBenAussie on September 14, 2010, 04:29:24 PM
@mongo
Quote

The Commodore Phoenix is, according to it's own manual, an FCC Class A device, meaning that it can only be sold for commercial and industrial use. It can not legally be sold for home use in the USA.

From Barry:

:)
I was producing class A and class B FCC product before he was born.
ALL THE COMPONENTS IN THE PHOENIX, MADE FOR US BY CYBERNET, ARE FROM FCC DoC registered and tested parts. WE ARE IN FULL CONFORMITY FOR BOTH CLASSES.  ALL OTHER PRODUCTS ARE ALL FCC APPROVED, FOR COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL USE!
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: BigBenAussie on September 14, 2010, 04:32:11 PM
@CSixx
Quote
A bit of a cheap shot admittedly. But a bit true also
What can I say... Trolls need not apply. ;-)
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Piru on September 14, 2010, 04:36:07 PM
Quote from: gdanko;579245
You have your opinions on certain subjects and I have mine.
Fine. But who appointed you the MorphOS Team spokesperson and authorized you to talk to this CEO about funding?
Quote
If you don't want to deal with the guy, tell him so.
You contacted him, not us.
Quote
And if you don't want me to express my opinions
You're of course welcome to have your opinions.

However, please don't go talking to random guys about funding MorphOS ports. We'd like to keep that privilege to ourselves.

For the rest: I still think his excuse for the blatant copyright infringement stinks.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: mongo on September 14, 2010, 04:48:11 PM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;579282
@mongo

From Barry:

:)
I was producing class A and class B FCC product before he was born.
ALL THE COMPONENTS IN THE PHOENIX, MADE FOR US BY CYBERNET, ARE FROM FCC DoC registered and tested parts. WE ARE IN FULL CONFORMITY FOR BOTH CLASSES.  ALL OTHER PRODUCTS ARE ALL FCC APPROVED, FOR COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL USE!


Doesn't matter if the parts are tested, the complete system must be tested as a whole.

What's the FCC ID of the Commodore Phoenix, Barry?

And the bonus question : When was I born?
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: gdanko on September 14, 2010, 04:50:01 PM
Quote from: mongo;579266
Benjamin Altman, Barry's "great (or great great) grandfather" never married and had no children.


Public knowledge.

B. Altman and the Fleishmans
When Sophia returned to New York with her children after her husband's murder, her brother Morris led the business that had been founded by their father. In 1872, however, the youngest Altman sibling, Benjamin, established his own “fancy” and dry goods store under the name “B. Altman and Company.” Morris died suddenly at the age of thirty-nine in July 1876, leaving Benjamin to manage the family businesses. At the time of Morris Altman’s death, the Altman brothers were already quite successful merchants and employed over two hundred people. Morris had been a greatly respected businessman and was a prime mover behind the effort toward advocating shorter working hours for dry goods clerks (New York Times, July 14, 1876, p. 4. Henry Hall, ed., America’s Successful Men of Affairs: An Encyclopedia of Contemporaneous Biography, vol. 1 (New York, 1895-96), 16). Morris’ widow died shortly after him and Benjamin assumed responsibility for raising Morris’ four children. Consequently, in addition to operating a large and growing business, Benjamin Altman, thirty-six years old, now had ten fatherless young nieces and nephews in his care. These burdens may very well explain why Benjamin never married and had children of his own.
At his death in 1913, the New York Times estimated Altman to be worth forty-five million in real estate, art holdings and his B. Altman stock (New York Times, October 8, 1913). He donated his celebrated art collection to the Metropolitan Museum Art which was acclaimed at the time as the “most splendid gift that a citizen has ever made to the people of the city of New York” (Metropolitan Museum of Art, Guide to Altman Collection, 13. His collection included, at various times, thirteen major Rembrandts). Altman also became known as a patron of American artists and was commended as a philanthropist who avoided publicizing his charitable works. A biographical note commended Altman for his devotion to the care and education of Morris’ four orphaned children (Hall, America’s Successful Men, 17). Altman remained attached to Judaism and was a member of Temple Emanu-El. After Altman’s death in 1913, Adam Schiff unsuccessfully urged the editors of the Evening Post to mention that Altman “had lived and died as a Jew” (David Levering Lewis, W.E.B. Du Bois - Biography of a Race, 1868-1919 (New York, 1993), 488-9). Altman left his store, B. Altman & Co., in the care of his foundation for the benefit of charitable causes and the employees.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: tone007 on September 14, 2010, 04:56:46 PM
^ repost
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Akiko on September 14, 2010, 05:33:23 PM
Quote from: gdanko;579238
Unlike Bill McEwen, Barry Altman is more than willing to converse with  people and answer their questions. I told him I would keep our conversation completely confidential and he told me, "I wish you wouldn't. Please share anything I tell you because I want people to know the truth.". So here I am. Barry seemed to be frustrated by the herd mentality of the forum communities and quite frankly, I am too. Yeah many of us have had ill dealing with the likes of Doomy but Barry has slighted no one. He's trying to make interesting computers with the Commodore name.


Bill McEwen was also more than willing to converse in the beginning, and we all know how that turned out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLbwlFVu88M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9JHMI_r_lM&feature=related
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: BigBenAussie on September 14, 2010, 06:03:58 PM
@mongo
Quote
Doesn't matter if the parts are tested, the complete system must be tested as a whole.
FCC reg's have changed.
No need to test complete systems any more.
Only need to have the individual components used be in conformity.

From FCC documentation:
Quote
PROCEDURE
Compliance testing at accredited laboratory.
No testing required for products assembled from authorized modular components.
Label on product (http://www.fcc.gov/oet/dockets/et95-19/labels.html)
Compliance Information Statement in user's manual or separate sheet.

Quote
What's the FCC ID of the Commodore Phoenix, Barry?
The whole point of the new regulations are that no filing is needed, thus there is no FCC ID.
You just need to conform with the declaration of conformity, which goes under the auspices of the component regulations.

Quote
And the bonus question : When was I born?
Ask your mommy. :-p
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: runequester on September 14, 2010, 06:28:58 PM
Quote
Commodore USA was not set up as charity to support the development of AROS. It holds less than nothing of interest or importance to me, or 99.999999% of our intended market. It is a product that I or any other company could not use at all, as it has NO commercial value now, as is. So why are you all so concerned??


Quote
Our relationship with them, along with our support for the elegant, robust and lightweight AROS desktop operating system, will ensure that they and future customers will benefit from our new and exciting vision, and enable the legacy Commodore and Amiga culture to flourish.


One of these is not like the other
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: murple on September 14, 2010, 06:29:56 PM
I'd like to issue a blanket to you and anybody else who dignifies this scam company by starting any "Commodore USA" threads. Now .
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: kolla on September 14, 2010, 06:31:02 PM
The latter is the former presented through a PR person.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: runequester on September 14, 2010, 06:32:08 PM
Quote from: kolla;579316
The latter is the former presented through a PR person.


"we've always been at war with Eurasia"
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: kolla on September 14, 2010, 06:37:14 PM
Quote from: runequester;579317
"we've always been at war with Eurasia"


Exactly :lol:
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: BigBenAussie on September 14, 2010, 06:37:49 PM
Both are from Barry.
The latter, from the press release, was written by Barry.
The former was after you guys brought out the pitchforks.
What a difference one week with you guys makes. :-D
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: runequester on September 14, 2010, 06:39:54 PM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;579320
Both are from Barry.
The latter, from the press release, was written by Barry.
The former was after you guys brought out the pitchforks.
What a difference one week with you guys makes. :-D


so either amiga.org is totally not the target group or we dictate corporate policy ?


Somewhat tangentially, do we have any communication from any AROS developers ?
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: haywirepc on September 14, 2010, 06:40:36 PM
Only in america can you go from fanboy on a message forum to chief technical officer of that company in a few months or less.
 
Chief technical officer? Wow sounds important. Yeah right you dumbass,
show us your paystubs, then we'll see how important you really are to this
so called "company".
 
Why does a company who is just slapping stickers on pre-existant products need a technical officer? Do you print the stickers for them?
 
What a crock of . That is all.
 
Steven
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: WolfToTheMoon on September 14, 2010, 06:47:14 PM
hmm, I see moderators will be busy with this thread.

atleast have some decency and speak like grown ups... no need to insult like a child.

as to CUSA, I await their (new announced)products. Everything else was already said and no need to go over it yet again.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: kolla on September 14, 2010, 06:47:55 PM
Quote from: runequester;579321
so either amiga.org is totally not the target group or we dictate corporate policy ?

No, amiga.org just managed to get him to spill his true oppinions about AROS, which... suprise suprise... do not match the nonsense he started off with :hammer:

Quote
Somewhat tangentially, do we have any communication from any AROS developers?
AFAIK, none of them care, what matters is submitted code.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: kolla on September 14, 2010, 06:52:12 PM
Quote from: WolfToTheMoon;579325
atleast have some decency and speak like grown ups... no need to insult like a child.


Childish insults don't hurt anyone, grown ups use weapons and lawyers, I know what I prefer.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: BigBenAussie on September 14, 2010, 06:53:27 PM
@haywirepc
TBH I was initially offered Head of IT/Product Development.
I said why not make it CTO.
Better to take it before he gives it to someone else. ;-)
The problem is that you see things as they are now.
You don't see where this is going.
And that is why we can't have nice things. ;-)
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: persia on September 14, 2010, 06:59:07 PM
AMIGA.ORG is the anti-target group, they don't want to sell any products, real or imaginary, to us.  Barry's pissed at all of us because we exposed his phoney resume...

Quote from: runequester;579321
so either amiga.org is totally not the target group or we dictate corporate policy ?


Somewhat tangentially, do we have any communication from any AROS developers ?
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: kolla on September 14, 2010, 07:15:58 PM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;579330
And that is why we can't have nice things. ;-)


But we can have nice things, but obviously not from Commodore USA.

Ofcourse, I dont have any problem with Commodore USA selling Windows PCs, that's exactly what all the other Commodores have been doing, including CBM. I also don't have any problem with CUSA sticking Amiga stickers on PCs, that's most likely also what old CBM would have done at some point had they not folded (they were quite ready to replace AmigaOS with NT on the PA-RISC based next generation Amiga systems iirc). I also don't give a rats ass about those fantasy drawings on the website, so what if they were "ripped" from aminet, what matters is that it will _never_ materialize - it's all just nonsense and hot air.

All in all I have no problem with Commodore USA at all, it's just great drama for me, I would never ever buy anything from them, since there's nothing CUSA has to offer that I want.

We can set up a bet if you like - if you ever manage to produce the fantasy case in solid quality, with a real solid Amiga keyboard as shown on the render (I'd prefer it to be USB connector internally), with a price tag of max 200 USD - I'd buy several, honoustly, I would.  Fat chance though, huh? :lol:
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: jorkany on September 14, 2010, 07:18:00 PM
Quote from: haywirepc;579322
Only in america can you go from fanboy on a message forum to chief technical officer of that company in a few months or less.
 
Chief technical officer? Wow sounds important. Yeah right you dumbass,
show us your paystubs, then we'll see how important you really are to this
so called "company".
 
Why does a company who is just slapping stickers on pre-existant products need a technical officer? Do you print the stickers for them?
 
What a crock of . That is all.
 
Steven
I'm not sure I quite grasp what you're getting at here. Could you be a little more direct?
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: dammy on September 14, 2010, 07:24:52 PM
Quote from: runequester;579321
so either amiga.org is totally not the target group or we dictate corporate policy ?


Of course we are not the target group.  If we have 4,000 active users world wide at this point in time, we are doing pretty good.  If CUSA sold to each and every one of us, it would be a financial disaster.  They need to sell atleast 20,000 units to make any significant investment like a new all-in-one case worth while.  I know it's a tough thing to get ahold of, but what we represent as a market is not economically viable.   We are too small in numbers even if we all bought a given product.  Given today's economy, it would have to be a very inexpensive item at that.

We've been heading down this road for many years, and the candle wick has burned out completely.  Enjoy what is left of the paraffin, there isn't anything left past that.  Some day that too will be gone.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: BigBenAussie on September 14, 2010, 07:41:27 PM
@kolla
You guys have no idea. Not a clue.
You look at today and think that is the way it will always be.
Like companies don't grow and evolve or something.
Maybe you're used to stagnation in this little Amigaland, entirely due to companies trying to cater specifically to you, and you're never satisfied anyway.
I am definitely looking forward to the day when you'll be eating your words.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Fats on September 14, 2010, 07:47:40 PM
Quote from: runequester;579321

Somewhat tangentially, do we have any communication from any AROS developers ?


What I have seen as an AROS developer is some hype posts on the aros-exec forum from BigBenAussie how awesome C=USA is and how we have to support it, a few press releases where C=USA claims to produce the next generation amiga by using AROS and finally a frustrated reply from the CEO posted on this forum where he says AROS is currently unusable.

I did not see any constructive proposal on the dev maillist or aros-exec on how we could collaborate in some kind of win-win agreement. This is in contrast to ClusterUK and Phoenix who are actively seeking ways to improve the AROS community. That's also why I advice people who want a pre-installed AROS machine to go for iMiCA or ARES computers.

AROS is open source and C=USA is free to use AROS but I don't see any reason ATM to actively support C=USA.

greets,
Staf.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: haywirepc on September 14, 2010, 07:52:15 PM
Hey Mr. Chief Technical officer, shouldn't you be designing the next super amiga computer, or hey why not start off with a smaller project, like maybe getting rid of the stolen from apple website design?
 
I would think that would be more important than spending your time engaging in flame wars on a message board, since this whole companies technical future is apparently in your very capable hands.
 
With great minds like yours guiding their future, why this company could be the next big thing...To flop.
 
I'd offer to help with your stolen website redesign efforts but...
 
My new company "Commodore Worldwide" will soon begin shipping remanufactured dell computers spray painted white with amiga stickers on them. I have to hire a chief technical officer first to help me print the stickers though... Maybe you need a part time job, or is that huge paycheck your getting from commodore usa making you so rich your not interested?
 
How dare the idiot running this thing called AROS unusable. I have been using AROS for years. He is showing fake pictures of an imagined amiga running an amiga like os... the computers are x86 so what amiga like os is he implying these computers will run? I also agree, support imica, support ares, but ignore these slap a sticker on it and call it an amiga guys.
 
I repeat, what a crock of .
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: DonnyEMU on September 14, 2010, 07:54:52 PM
I have to say that the vast majority of people here are not from the USA.. Most of us here have a wildly different perspective on things, and Commodore and Commodore-Amiga were national brands 20-25 years ago that slipped out of the collective consciousness when Commodore died.. We never got a real product from gateway and any of the 4.x stuff and the power pc stuff here were mostly not even widely know by the millions and billions of people who bought 64s and Amiga 500s to even exist. There are no real stores you could buy it in and the community shrunk to the poin where it really doesn't exist. Even the AmiWest show really isn't a show anymore, it's not very well funded companies and a lot of people with really ancient hardware..

To have anyone here complain about Commodore USA is really a non-starter and no one is really going to care. Why? Because they aren't Commodore from Pennsylvania and honestly they are starting at square one with kids that are now growing up who never had a C=64 or even an Amiga product in the house..

Let's face it this is a nostalgia thing here, unlike in Europe and other nations where it's still a cult of loyal fanboys.

No one makes money today off of old Amiga products or even finds a reason to buy this kinda thing (most of us have more capable web browsers on our phones) and access youtube facebook and twitter from there (I know people that won't even email)..

This whole group here is not a market for Commodore USA,  and let me tell you the original Commodore sold many PC-10,20,30,40s etc with Microsoft DOS/Windows on it. People here won't buy a power pc based machine or OS, especially when it doesn't even run their blu-ray player which is pretty standard today. Yes Hyperion has done a nice update and I love their work, but history has moved on. Even Apple went away from the PowerPC now, and that was now YEARS ago (2-3 OS releases which are semi-annually with Apple)..

Frankly it's time to get with the program, AROS is a great OS and a great alternative for hobbyists, there is no security or encryption that I can see find in it or multi-user support, but it's coming along..

It's really time to stop complaining about use of a logo and a name that frankly if the original company was still around you wouldn't be using their products and you would be on to something else if things would have worked out differently..
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Akiko on September 14, 2010, 07:59:35 PM
Quote from: dammy;579344
Of course we are not the target group.  If we have 4,000 active users world wide at this point in time, we are doing pretty good.  If CUSA sold to each and every one of us, it would be a financial disaster.  They need to sell atleast 20,000 units to make any significant investment like a new all-in-one case worth while.  I know it's a tough thing to get ahold of, but what we represent as a market is not economically viable.   We are too small in numbers even if we all bought a given product.  Given today's economy, it would have to be a very inexpensive item at that..


Really?!? Those must be incredibly expensive stickers!
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: persia on September 14, 2010, 08:01:12 PM
Barry's been living off inherited money for most of his life, why he bothered with fictitious companies and non-existent products I don't know, but I'm hoping that Big Ben Aussie is real and will lead the Homecraft Furniture/Commodore USA to good things.

I'm not really interested in faux-retro or rebranded failed products, give me an C= branded Android tablet or a 12 core behemoth in a box and I might be interested.  

Just like birds appeared when dinosaurs were disappearing, laptops appeared when computers in a keyboard thingies disappeared....
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: kolla on September 14, 2010, 08:43:23 PM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;579350
@kolla
You guys have no idea. Not a clue.


And you're so full of clue that it hurts :)

Quote
You look at today and think that is the way it will always be.

No - not at all.

Quote
Like companies don't grow and evolve or something.

I have close friends who worked for DEC - remember DEC? I also know people who worked for SGI and Sun - who are you kidding? Many on this board know perfectly well how the business works, we are in the business for crying out loud - just as much as you are, anyways.

Quote
Maybe you're used to stagnation in this little Amigaland, entirely due to companies trying to cater specifically to you, and you're never satisfied anyway.


Well - try me, seriously, try me! Amigaland is for me a hobby, and a quite entertaining one. And you're right about me never being satisfied, but that's just the way it is when everything is mandated by the needs of the assumed "most users" to which I do not conform.

Quote
I am definitely looking forward to the day when you'll be eating your words.


And exactly which words would that be?
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: kolla on September 14, 2010, 08:46:59 PM
Quote from: DonnyEMU;579355
Let's face it this is a nostalgia thing here, unlike in Europe and other nations where it's still a cult of loyal fanboys.

How ironic then, that it is you have "cult member" status, and not me. :laughing:

Quote
It's really time to stop complaining about use of a logo and a name that frankly if the original company was still around you wouldn't be using their products and you would be on to something else if things would have worked out differently.
Wow, you've really paid attention to what people have been complaining about, haven't you. And yes, that was sarcasm.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: murple on September 14, 2010, 09:09:40 PM
This is some rip-off company that isn't producing any products - just buying hardware from other companies, maybe slapping a Commodore sticker on there, and re-selling. I'm not even sure they have legal rights to use the name, I seem to recall reading something from the legal trademark owner saying that Commodore USA was not licensed. Even if it's legal, who the hell cares? This has as much to do with Amigas as Jesus does to Bar Mitzvahs. This is not worth arguing about. Just ignore the idiots. Stop talking to this "company"... stop starting threads about it... Most likely this "company" is just some loser living in a basement who waits for some moron to order, buys the machine from it's manufacturer, slaps on a Commodore sticker, ships it off, and takes the few bucks profit he made to go buy Star Wars toys or porn or something.

Just stop.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: kedawa on September 14, 2010, 09:34:25 PM
This whole thing is just a .  I don't know who the target market is, but I can tell you that nobody outside of retro-computing hobbyists gives a damn about the Commodore name, and Barry has done a great job of alienating those people.
The brand carries no weight at all, and even if it did, he only has a license to use it.  I don't see what bright and wondrous future could await a company that doesn't even own it's own name.

If I were to buy a bunch of generic chinese LCDs, put them in a faux-wood panel casing, and slap a Curtis-Mathis logo on them, they would be just as successful as anything coming from C=USA.

The company is offering nothing new to the market and depending on a defunct brand name, so I think the doubt and ridicule thrown its way is more than justified.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: tone007 on September 14, 2010, 09:52:15 PM
COMMODORE USA
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m113/alydaines/Mannedyret_-_Falling_Down.jpg)
NOT ECONOMICALLY VIABLE
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: jsixis on September 15, 2010, 01:54:43 AM
not an amiga by my defination but still unique
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: redrumloa on September 15, 2010, 02:54:39 AM
Quote from: mongo;579270
The Commodore Phoenix is, according to it's own manual, an FCC Class A device, meaning that it can only be sold for commercial and industrial use. It can not legally be sold for home use in the USA.

What do you think Commodore USA's target market is?

ruh-roh...
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: redrumloa on September 15, 2010, 03:02:17 AM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;579350
@kolla
You guys have no idea. Not a clue.
You look at today and think that is the way it will always be.
Like companies don't grow and evolve or something.
Maybe you're used to stagnation in this little Amigaland, entirely due to companies trying to cater specifically to you, and you're never satisfied anyway.
I am definitely looking forward to the day when you'll be eating your words.

Some of us have dipped our feet in the pond and know how deep the water is.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: redrumloa on September 15, 2010, 03:12:08 AM
Quote from: redrumloa;579429
Some of us have dipped our feet in the pond and know how deep the water is.


BTW. Tell Barry that if he was not grifting community art for promotional purposes, there probably wouldn't have been an such an uproar in the "community".
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: DonnyEMU on September 15, 2010, 04:53:25 AM
About my cult status: I have actually been here helping people when they actually have questions on things like AmigaDOS, Intuition, Exec, Commodities, AREXX, creating device drivers, S: DEVS: LIBS: etc.. I was an original Commodore developer program member in 1984-85 (how many people here can actually say that, and yes I still have the A1000 and it still runs).. That's why I have cult status here, when there actually is a glimmer of discussion about something like gfxbase etc I am a pretty good resource for that kind of information. Unfortunately the last few years no one asks questions like this.. It's all this blah blah other platform, anyone who uses the Commodore or Amiga name is evil and bad.. Time moves on and people move on.. In some ways I believe the only healthy group that moved on here is the AROS folks.. They have a viable platform and they are moving forward with their own new software. If I looked into creating software I am not even sure I could find a hyperion developer program to even look into getting current information there.. I hope I am wrong about that one, but I wish it was more apparent where to find that information..

I also didn't take the comments as scarcasm, because at the end of Commodore, I heard from a lot of the USA management (not the CATS folks) that they were planning on stepping up PC production in the USA over Commodore-Amiga sales.. I believe that's what was Medhi Ali's stated direction because they thought it would save Commodore from Debt and they'd win over the XOR patent trolls who were at that time an annoyance that they needs to throw money at..

Also people sell hardware like what Commodore USA sells as put together kits.. In the USA the low end market is now put together kit stuff like this that you put together yourself. You buy it at places like Micro Center, Frys, NewEgg etc..  I suspect that if they sell things with a "class a" thing there it will see distribution as do it yourself kits here..  I think that's a smart idea. Most people roll their own PCs here (unless it's a laptop or a netbook).. It would make sense to do it this way (not selling in Toys'R'Us who wouldn't sell it today anyway) or Walmart who wouldn't either..
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: SysAdmin on September 15, 2010, 06:50:07 AM
@DonnyEMU

Using this thread as a FUD machine against Amiga OS 4.x is way off topic. If you don't know how to find dev tools for it look out your Window sometime. Google is your friend, but I have a feeling you use Bing.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Piru on September 15, 2010, 07:32:40 AM
Quote from: Transition;579453
@DonnyEMU

Using this thread as a FUD machine against Amiga OS 4.x is way off topic.
Seeing such (well founded) criticsm as "FUD machine" is rather curious. There's no question that beginning to develop to any of the current amigoid incarnations is really hard. The information is scattered to number of forums and there's no centralized location to begin your quest.

Off topic? Well sure, but no-one is on topic all the time here.

"FUD machine against Amiga OS 4.x"? Oh please. Nothing in that message is FUD, but genuine frustration of the situation as it is today.

If this is the official line of amiga.org webmaster I need to seriously reconsider staying a member here.

Quote
Google is your friend, but I have a feeling you use Bing.
What the ...?
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Pyromania on September 15, 2010, 08:20:48 AM
@Piru

You don't know the history. No reason to leave here. DonnyEMU is probability just as much against MorphOS as he is Amiga OS 4.x. His FUD machine will spread to MorphOS too, give him time. He is only here to spread pro Microsoft propaganda and looking for Windows fans. He once was an Amiga user but that was 1000's of years ago. He looking to spread MS news and is pro M$ everything, nothing to see here move along. He only pretends to like Amiga stuff in hopes that he will get converts to the church of Microsoft.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: kolla on September 15, 2010, 08:21:11 AM
Quote from: DonnyEMU;579441
I also didn't take the comments as scarcasm, because at the end of Commodore, I heard from a lot of the USA management (not the CATS folks) that they were planning on stepping up PC production in the USA over Commodore-Amiga sales.


But that was not at all what my comment was about - you think people here complain about some company "abusing" the Commodore name? People here in general do not give a rats ass about the Commodore name, which has been "abused" over and over since the days of CBM, for many of us even the old Commodore was "evil". If you had been paying any attention, you would know that this is not what people have been moaning about - and I for one, have pointed out several times that if CBM had been alive today, we would most likely have seen windows based Amiga machines back in the 90ies already.

Btw, I love how you refrain from quoting the messages you comment, assuring that you can "answer" whatever you like out of context, making it so much harder to figure out what the heck you're rambling on about :laughing:
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Piru on September 15, 2010, 08:26:22 AM
Quote from: Pyromania;579467
@Piru

You don't know the history.

How is that relevant?

Your comment came out bad. It seemed as if it was a policy statement, and it certainly had a chilling effect.

You need to be very careful when posting comments wearing the hat you're wearing.

Quote
No reason to leave here. DonnyEMU is probability just as much against MorphOS as he is Amiga OS 4.x. His FUD machine would will spread to MorphOS too, give him time.

If that's supposed to somehow validate your behaviour, it doesn't.

Quote
He is only here to spread pro Microsoft propaganda and looking for Windows fans. He once was an Amiga user but that was 1000's of years ago. He looking to spread MS news and is pro M$ everything, nothing to see here move along.

Are you serious here? Are we going to put down people because they like to use Windows?

Just to clarify: Is this your personal opinion or official amiga.org policy?
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Pyromania on September 15, 2010, 08:29:52 AM
Of course we don't care if you use Windows, most people use it. But DonnyEMU's pro everything M$ love feast gets old after a while. They should get a room already. This is not Amiga.org policy, just personal opinion. He should embrace his deep love of M$ on Microsoft forums, it's not welcome here. He always has a hidden agenda to sneak in M$ propaganda because he has friends there. Lots of cool people work at Microsoft, but they bang their head against the wall trying to change things at that old school company.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: cicero790 on September 15, 2010, 08:39:07 AM
I think this is fun by the following string of reasons.

Amiga Emulation on Win/Lin = Fun  (probably by far the most used method for using Amiga today.)
Amiga Emulation on NextGen Recreated Ami OS = (Fun+Fun)
Amiga Emulation integrated in NextGen Recreated Ami OS = (Fun*Fun)(the have it all scenario.)
Recreated  Ami OS + NEW Commodore Amiga HW = (the have it all, all worlds colliding scenario + cake.)

We do what we must because we can.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF_IBrHsuzA

I'm curious to see C=USA realize their ideas.

@Kolla
Your idea about the icons was liked over at the Aros exec.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: jj on September 15, 2010, 10:02:04 AM
Quote from: Pyromania;579471
Of course we don't care if you use Windows, most people use it. But DonnyEMU's pro everything M$ love feast gets old after a while. They should get a room already. This is not Amiga.org policy, just personal opinion. He should embrace his deep love of M$ on Microsoft forums, it's not welcome here. He always has a hidden agenda to sneak in M$ propaganda because he has friends there. Lots of cool people work at Microsoft, but they bang their head against the wall trying to change things at that old school company.

Jesus.  How old are you ?
 
Any minute now you will start calling it winblows.
 
Who cares if he loves Windows.  
 
I am more concerned about your agenda.  Grow up
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: swoslover on September 15, 2010, 11:45:39 AM
Quote from: JJ;579480
Jesus.  How old are you ?
 
Any minute now you will start calling it winblows.
 
Who cares if he loves Windows.  
 
I am more concerned about your agenda.  Grow up


seconded, the poster (from chicago) is seriously irritating me and I cant understand why someobne so lacking in maturity could be a moderator on this excellent forum

I actually have to admit windows 7 is a bit of a guilty pleasure

It doesn't lessen the love I have for my miggy, but I need to move with the times
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Golem!dk on September 15, 2010, 12:13:33 PM
Yup, have to say these messages from Transition/Pyromania reflect poorly on the site administration.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Franko on September 15, 2010, 12:15:22 PM
This whole CommodoreUSA thing is being blown way out of all proportion. Let this guy try and run his business using the Commodore Name.

I don't know anything about the guy and all I know from his site is he is selling nothing more than what seems to me are PCs in some custom cases.

All us long time Amiga users know, as history has shown that their will most likely never be a new Amiga in the true spirit of the word. So why all this fuss over someone using the commodore name.

If your dumb enough to buy a machine just because its got the name Commodore on it, thinking that it's a real Amiga or C64 then thats your tough luck, you should research the product first before you buy it.

If this like his and all the other machines that have been and gone over recent times, and the ones that are still being promised by other companies ever come to fruition then we can judge them for what they are.

Until such a time comes, which I doubt it ever will, stick to the original hardware you own or buy second hand genuine Amiga hardware, and cut the crap and petty name calling over something that doesn't even exist yet.

Seems to me some of the folk on here need to borrow my medication and chill out a bit... :)
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: kolla on September 15, 2010, 12:21:36 PM
Quote from: Franko;579499
So why all this fuss over someone using the commodore name.


Sigh - again, that's not what the fuss is about! :hammer:
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Franko on September 15, 2010, 12:25:56 PM
Quote from: kolla;579500
Sigh - again, that's not what the fuss is about! :hammer:


Ok Kolla, explain what al the fuss is about... :)
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Argo on September 15, 2010, 12:37:13 PM
Quote from: Franko;579503
Ok Kolla, explain what al the fuss is about... :)


See Red's post at top of page for one...
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Piru on September 15, 2010, 12:43:33 PM
Quote from: Franko;579503
Ok Kolla, explain what al the fuss is about... :)
Commodore USA uses modified fanart in marketing material without permission.

http://www.aminet.net/pix/trace/AMIGA-fantasyB.jpg
vs
http://www.commodoreusa.net/i/PC64Pro.jpg
http://www.commodoreusa.net/i/AMIGA-fantasyB_3_2_3.jpg
http://www.commodoreusa.net/products.html

See here:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54331

This is how the CEO thinks copyright works:
As far as using abandoned artwork, no problem here. Marko Hirv cannot be reached. Period. I tried. No luck. And yes, I did email the company he is at now….again no reply. Find him…I'll deal with him, or anyone else that falls into that category. (source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=578528&postcount=183))
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: dammy on September 15, 2010, 01:02:35 PM
Quote from: redrumloa;579429
Some of us have dipped our feet in the pond and know how deep the water is.


Yeah, I've dipped my toes into the Amiga pond:
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Franko on September 15, 2010, 01:03:08 PM
Quote from: Argo;579506
See Red's post at top of page for one...


I get that much, but I just can't understand what folk are getting angry about, if you don't like the guy or his products then why bother about him. No ones is forcing you, me or anyone else to buy his stuff. So why not just boycot his site and just ignore him.

The guy has nothing that I want to buy, but as I say I don't understand why some folk are reverting to what's becoming nothing more than a slanging match. :)
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: kolla on September 15, 2010, 01:15:41 PM
There's lots of fuss here, but none of it is related to them using the name "Commodore", and there's also almost surprisingly little fuss about them using the name "Amiga".

The fuss is about:
* using fanart without permission
* shifting positions regarding AROS, the "amiga community", and just about anything
* BigBenAussie "the CTO" has been pestering the Amiga sites that are serving a community for which they officially do not care about, for months with this nonsense
* It is CUSA who say "Look at us - we have the name, WE HAVE THE NAME - you MUST like us!!111"
* Their handling of OSNews.org, which was hilarious :)
* And ofcourse their general "you're all a bunch of silly amateurs" attitude towards anyone who question their actions, many of whom are well established in the IT industry.

All in all, great drama :)
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: kolla on September 15, 2010, 01:20:38 PM
Quote from: Franko;579513
The guy has nothing that I want to buy, but as I say I don't understand why some folk are reverting to what's becoming nothing more than a slanging match. :)


Because they are bitching back, it's become interactive - I think the word is infotainment :)
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: mongo on September 15, 2010, 01:21:36 PM
Quote from: Piru;579509
Commodore USA uses modified fanart in marketing material without permission.

http://www.aminet.net/pix/trace/AMIGA-fantasyB.jpg
vs
http://www.commodoreusa.net/i/PC64Pro.jpg
http://www.commodoreusa.net/i/AMIGA-fantasyB_3_2_3.jpg
http://www.commodoreusa.net/products.html

See here:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54331

This is how the CEO thinks copyright works:
As far as using abandoned artwork, no problem here. Marko Hirv cannot be reached. Period. I tried. No luck. And yes, I did email the company he is at now….again no reply. Find him…I'll deal with him, or anyone else that falls into that category. (source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=578528&postcount=183))


I'm also willing to bet he didn't get permission from Design By XS to use the Amiga logo that is currently on his page.

http://www.commodoreusa.net/i/logo/amiga_chrome_trail-1.jpg

http://www.designbyxs.com/printdesign/amiga%20chrome%20trail.jpg

Design By XS = Dr. Ryan Czerwinski, btw.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Franko on September 15, 2010, 01:27:18 PM
@Kolla

Ok some fair points their, and a wee bit of drama always helps liven things up a wee bit. :)

So why not hack into his site and make some erm... modifications to his dodgy use of other folks artwork and place a few truths about what his site is really all about. Im pretty sure there must be someone here with the skills & talents to do so... :)
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: redrumloa on September 15, 2010, 01:31:46 PM
Quote from: Golem!dk;579497
Yup, have to say these messages from Transition/Pyromania reflect poorly on the site administration.

Could we all back up a minute and give Transition/Pyromania a break, please? Running a site and/or being a moderator does not mean someone should not have an opinion. As long as the stated opinion does not break the TOS and moderation is not swayed by a personal opinion, there is no harm. You might not like an opinion, but that is the way it is in all aspects of life.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: redrumloa on September 15, 2010, 01:34:16 PM
Quote from: Franko;579513
I get that much, but I just can't understand what folk are getting angry about, if you don't like the guy or his products then why bother about him. No ones is forcing you, me or anyone else to buy his stuff. So why not just boycot his site and just ignore him.
 
The guy has nothing that I want to buy, but as I say I don't understand why some folk are reverting to what's becoming nothing more than a slanging match. :)

This is a duscussion forum. Someone started a topic, it is getting discussed! If internet forums didn't discuss topics, they would be quite boring;)
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Golem!dk on September 15, 2010, 01:40:59 PM
Sorry red, just looked more like a personal attack than an opinion to me.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Franko on September 15, 2010, 01:42:06 PM
Quote from: redrumloa;579521
This is a duscussion forum. Someone started a topic, it is getting discussed! If internet forums didn't discuss topics, they would be quite boring;)


Wish you could explain that to the moderator who kicked me off an Adult Chat site a couple of night's ago, that guy or woman had no sense of humor at all, and I just lost a £29.99 subscription fee... :)
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Franko on September 15, 2010, 01:51:03 PM
Are melons a fruit or veg... :)

OOOPS... Sorry wrong thread... Just ignore that question...
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: jorkany on September 15, 2010, 03:29:43 PM
Quote from: mongo;579518
I'm also willing to bet he didn't get permission from Design By XS to use the Amiga logo that is currently on his page.

http://www.commodoreusa.net/i/logo/amiga_chrome_trail-1.jpg

http://www.designbyxs.com/printdesign/amiga%20chrome%20trail.jpg

Design By XS = Dr. Ryan Czerwinski, btw.

Maybe he checked with the AMA and couldn't find a Dr. Ryan Czerwinski to ask for permission?
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Pyromania on September 15, 2010, 05:14:48 PM
Perhaps I'll stay out of this thread. Sorry if I offended anyone.

:)
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: LoadWB on September 15, 2010, 05:20:07 PM
Nevermind...
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: SysAdmin on September 15, 2010, 07:27:10 PM
I moderated no posts, my opinion was given. We all have them and this is a great place to express them. That's what makes Amiga.org cool.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: dammy on September 15, 2010, 08:26:39 PM
Quote from: Transition;579584
I moderated no posts, my opinion was given. We all have them and this is a great place to express them. That's what makes Amiga.org cool.


Perhaps you should be posting from a personal account instead?  It would be easier for us to understand if it's your own POV vs policy statement coming from Admin.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Iggy on September 15, 2010, 08:58:21 PM
All this furor over CUSA, polarized opinions, personal attacks, and a few posts willing to give the benefit of the doubt.
Can't you all just wait a few months?
This will sort itself out. Either CUSA moves forward and introduces some newer more creative products, or like so many in the past, they delay, fail to fulfill promise and fail.
The next few months will be telling.
I'll wait to pass judgment until next year.

Until then, good luck Barry.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: djrikki on September 16, 2010, 10:38:39 AM
Breaking news from 2 days ago: (I hope someone hasn't posted it already)

Seems Commodore USA intend to advertise on US TV lol

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/commodore-usa-appoints-korey-kay-102977849.html

What fails to amuse is the paragraph:

"About Amiga Inc.
Amiga Inc. holds the intellectual property related to t he AMIGA personal computer that was developed and sold by Commodore International and Amiga Corporation, including hardware designs, software, opera ting systems, trademarks, and other intellectual properties. Amiga Inc. also produces and distributes enabling technologies and applications for wired and wireless devices that provide technology to developers for writing and porting applications to a new multi-media operating system that is hardware agnostic, enabling applications to run unchanged on x86 and other processors. States Bill McEwen, CEO/Pres, " We at Amiga are pleased to once again be par t of the great plans and products at Commodore USA. This is just the beginning of something great."

The inclusion of the words 'software' and 'operating system' is rather suspect.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: redrumloa on September 16, 2010, 01:09:27 PM
Quote from: djrikki;579702
Breaking news from 2 days ago: (I hope someone hasn't posted it already)
 
Seems Commodore USA intend to advertise on US TV lol
 
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/commodore-usa-appoints-korey-kay-102977849.html
 

 
Errr..
 
Projected budget: $30 million.

:rofl:
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Piru on September 16, 2010, 01:18:47 PM
Fits the profile. It looks more and more like Hyperion will have to take legal action if they want to defend their position. Which I think they'd like to avoid, considering the financial strain from other developments. The curious part is that I think they'd need to sue Amiga, Inc and not Commodore USA, since CUSA can claim to have licensed the TM in good faith. So if there will be any action it will be Hyperion vs Amiga, Inc all over again.

Even if it would get to that as far as I can tell CUSA could continue to use the trademark they have pending the result from the legal action. The very same way Hyperion kept at it even during the legal proceedings.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: WolfToTheMoon on September 16, 2010, 01:30:15 PM
Quote from: djrikki;579702

The inclusion of the words 'software' and 'operating system' is rather suspect.

It's not... they hold those rights, just can't use them as long as Hyperion uses them. Simple as that... Hyperion doesn't own anything other than an exclusive licence to those names(and the OS4 code + right to use previous OS 3.1 and distribute it), just as C=USA does with C= and Amiga trademarks.

Hyperion DOES NOT own AmigaOS or Amiga OS trademark rights...
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Akiko on September 16, 2010, 02:06:10 PM
Quote from: djrikki;579702
Breaking news from 2 days ago: (I hope someone hasn't posted it already)

Seems Commodore USA intend to advertise on US TV lol

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/commodore-usa-appoints-korey-kay-102977849.html


Quote from: redrumloa;579719
Errr..
 
Projected budget: $30 million.

:rofl:



This company is all big talk, CommodoreUSA and Ainc are a match made in heaven.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: dammy on September 16, 2010, 02:40:51 PM
Quote from: Akiko;579727
This company is all big talk, CommodoreUSA and Ainc are a match made in heaven.


He could be getting Chinese financing.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Golem!dk on September 16, 2010, 02:51:11 PM
Quote from: dammy;579729
He could be getting Chinese financing.


And this would be based on? pure speculation?
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: jj on September 16, 2010, 02:59:37 PM
I for one don't believe the press release is true its missing a sentence at the top that would makie it legit
 
"FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE"
Title: Commodore USA vs. DiscreetFX
Post by: Andre.Siegel on September 16, 2010, 04:56:25 PM
Quote from: redrumloa;579719
Errr..
 
Projected budget: $30 million.

:rofl:


Leo Nigro, CTO of Commodore USA, made the following statement after multiple people hinted that donations to AROS bounties would be very welcome:

"We're a start up don't forget, and every penny counts right now."

Considering that they do not appear to have any budget for design work either, thus are even willing to use graphics illegally, I think everyone on this website should be able to figure out how seriously the budget projection should be taken.

As of right now, DiscreetFX LLC, owner of amiga.org, have contributed more funds to AROS bounties than Commodore USA although AROS is just one out of several operating systems that are being targetted for future software releases. Plus, unlike Commodore USA, DiscreetFX do somehow manage to pay for exclusive graphics designs.

If Commodore USA are just remotely as serious and resourceful as they try so hard to pretend to be, there is absolutely no valid reason for them to be outdone by a supposedly smaller player such as DiscreetFX, who is not even in the business of selling AROS-compatible hardware...

(I specificially mention DiscreetFX as an example because they have been accused of releasing too many PR announcements, which I can understand to a degree. Compared to Commodore USA, they have a much, much better record in terms of supporting the AROS (and Amiga) community in tangible and obviously beneficial ways, however.)
Title: Re: Commodore USA vs. DiscreetFX
Post by: spihunter on September 16, 2010, 09:05:59 PM
Oh man...Now it's starting to spill over to ebay....
http://cgi.ebay.com/PC-Amiga-Hybrid-Computer-Emulate-500-1200-3000-4000-etc-/280562405057?pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item4152d28ec1

$389 for a P4? No thanks!
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Amiga_Nut on September 16, 2010, 09:25:14 PM
So what would people say is the bare minimum to not poke a stick at someone trying to sell a Pissy as a new generation Amiga because they spent 10 minutes installing AROS on it or something?
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: dammy on September 16, 2010, 09:29:58 PM
Quote from: Golem!dk;579731
And this would be based on? pure speculation?


Who else would have that type of money to invest in Chinese hardware?
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Amiga_Nut on September 16, 2010, 09:35:50 PM
Quote from: Golem!dk;579731
And this would be based on? pure speculation?


The fact he sells some crappy imported Chinese furniture to finance this joke of a scam called Commode USA?
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: haywirepc on September 16, 2010, 09:38:18 PM
This may be off topic, well not really... I know the cybernet pc is one they are selling, but that AMIGO... I know the other one like it is asus...
 
Does anyone know the source of the amigo? I seem to recall someone posted it here awhile ago, and it was called a websurf computer or something like that but I can't remember who makes it, nore can I find it on google.
 
I'd like to buy one but I'm certainly not buying one from them.
 
Steven
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: tone007 on September 16, 2010, 10:20:07 PM
http://www.norhtec.com/products/surfboard/index.html
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: djrikki on September 16, 2010, 11:11:03 PM
Quote from: WolfToTheMoon;579721

Hyperion DOES NOT own AmigaOS or Amiga OS trademark rights...


You said the same thing on AW after I gave you the link proving the opposite.

Perhaps yet again... selective reading.

http://www.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=134:hyperion-entertainment-cvba-and-amiga-inc-reach-settlement&catid=38:corporate&Itemid=18 (http://www.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=134:hyperion-entertainment-cvba-and-amiga-inc-reach-settlement&catid=38:corporate&Itemid=18)

"As part of the settlement agreement, the Amiga Parties acknowledge that Hyperion is the sole owner of AmigaOS 4 without prejudice to any third party rights."
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: takemehomegrandma on September 16, 2010, 11:47:50 PM
Quote from: redrumloa;579719

 
Projected budget: $30 million.


Impressive! :)

Maybe 2011 *will* be The Year of Amiga? :)

Hmm, why don't they sell *these* AIO products (https://www.genesi-usa.com/products/smartbook) under the Commodore Amiga name? That would be cool! Aros is being ported for it as well... ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L914kAIWOM
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: ChrisUnionNJ on September 20, 2010, 07:42:03 AM
Quote from: gdanko;579238
I became fascinated with the, for a lack of better words, drama around this new Commodore USA and its CEO Barry Altman. Then I remember seeing the Commodore name being used for on high end Windows "gaming" systems awhile back and how that appalled me. So I emailed Barry at Commodore USA to offer complaints about offering Windows machine and some suggestions. The text of my email is here:

---
Barry,
While I am a firm believer in the rights to be protected against libelous speech, I am also very leery of Commodore USA and what they're producing. If it's the same Commodore USA from about two years ago, all I saw were some fancy PC clones with Commodore logos on them. Remember, Windows is the epitome of what Commodore was NOT and to put the Commodore name and/or logo on a Windows PC is an abomination.

If you REALLY want to honor the Commodore name and legacy, you would consider one or more of the following:

1) Invest money/resources in the AROS project to help them make it truly usable. As we stand, it's not all that viable for daily use.
2) Invest in the MorphOS project/aid in an x86 port of the entire MorphOS system. MorphOS is far more advanced and polished than AROS at this point. To have an x86 port of MorphOS on a solid piece of hardware with a well-thought design would be awesome. It's doable but the resources are stretched thin as is.

Selling Windows-based run of the mill PCs with the Commodore logo is a travesty and a slap in the face to Commodore loyalists. I know business is business but to me it's sickening.

And yeah I know Linux is an option. But Windows is ever-present and I would be ashamed to buy a Commodore machine today.
Gary
---

Barry was more than willing to put his money where his mouth is and offered me his phone number at Commodore USA so we could talk over the phone. We had a 30 minute conversation and these are the major takeaways I took from the conversation.

* Barry is not simply some schmuck trying make a dime off the Commodore name.
* Barry has been in electronics and manufacturing for 25+ years
* Barry's family has a long successful history of entrepreneurship, going back to the B. Altman and company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._Altman_and_Company) department store which was started by his great (or great great) grandfather.
* Barry still owns furniture factories which produce furniture for high-end brands like Thomasville, which I am a fan of an own.

* Regarding the usage of the image(s), he said he wanted an image and found that one concept image, looked in vain for the owner, but could not find him. The image was put up on the site in hopes that the owner would come out of the woodwork and ask to have it removed or for royalties, neither of which happened. The email address was cropped out because it was a bogus address but later re-added so people would stop whining. At this point he would still like to contact the artist for permission to use the image.
* Acknowledges the poor quality of the web site and is actively looking for web developers. If you are a talented web developer and can show proof of your work, please contact him as they are actively looking to improve the web site.
* Has nothing to do with the company who created those beefy Windows boxes with the Commodore logo on them or the company who made Commodore-branded MP3 players.
* Reveled to me that the Commodore name is owned by a company in the Netherlands and that he has full exclusive right to use the Commodore name and logo. This has been arranged through said company. Fully willing to show me proof of this licensing.
* Has license to use the Amiga name and logos (boing ball, checkmark, etc) for all products. Does NOT have license to use Amiga OS, AmigaOS or derivatives. Also willing to show proof of licensing.
* Has true desire to make real machine for a hobbyist market. Has a design group that has actually designed these cases and boards. In fact, while we were speaking he had put the phone down to take a call from their motherboard manufacturer. I was able to hear his end of the several minute conversation and unless it was a ruse, it's all legitimate.

* Was fully open to my suggestion of supporting development of an x86 MorphOS port. I told him how I felt it was eons beyond AROS and he said he'd love to contribute to a port. How technically feasible this is, I don't know. But after having spoken to some experienced OS developers I was told that it IS possible, it just depends on how willing you are to work on it.
* Was fully open to committing resources, financial or otherwise, to bringing AROS to the state MorphOS is at in order to create a true modern Amiga not tied to Hyperion. In fact he said that when he tried to get driver development kickstarted he received criticism as if he was some sort of infidel.

Unlike Bill McEwen, Barry Altman is more than willing to converse with  people and answer their questions. I told him I would keep our conversation completely confidential and he told me, "I wish you wouldn't. Please share anything I tell you because I want people to know the truth.". So here I am. Barry seemed to be frustrated by the herd mentality of the forum communities and quite frankly, I am too. Yeah many of us have had ill dealing with the likes of Doomy but Barry has slighted no one. He's trying to make interesting computers with the Commodore name.

Before you light your torches and beat down a path to his door, I'd say communicate with the guy. Offer suggestions, he is extremely open to dialogue with the community if that dialogue is intelligent and insightful.

Lastly, I want to say that I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation and I found Barry Altman to be an intelligent and interesting man to talk to. He was courteous, friendly, and no question was off limits. He was fully willing to answer anything I had for him. Since our conversation was a few days ago I may have an inaccuracy or two so I will be forwarding this post to him so he can correct any of my mistakes. Give the guy a chance, I honestly think he's on the level.

Did you research anything you posted??
I did they just rebrand computers here's the real maker..
http://www.cybernetman.com/cart/viewProduct.cfm?productId=2

Invictus (http://www.commodoreusa.net/invictus.html)
This was was made about 2 years ago by a company in china never sold outside of china..
http://www.gadgetell.com/tech/comment/great-wall-unveils-the-cross-pc-u510-an-all-in-one-keyboard-pc/

Boing ball thats one is still up in the air everything I have looked at points to Hyperion they have the right to OS and the Boing ball...

I found this in about 1 hour of research....

Chris  :laughing:
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: WolfToTheMoon on September 20, 2010, 10:50:31 AM
Quote from: djrikki;579807
You said the same thing on AW after I gave you the link proving the opposite.

Perhaps yet again... selective reading.

http://www.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=134:hyperion-entertainment-cvba-and-amiga-inc-reach-settlement&catid=38:corporate&Itemid=18

"As part of the settlement agreement, the Amiga Parties acknowledge that Hyperion is the sole owner of AmigaOS 4 without prejudice to any third party rights."


And your link and quote only goes to show that they own only OS4 code. Trademarks they do not own, period.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: persia on September 20, 2010, 03:25:49 PM
Hyperion have an exclusive license to the name AmigaOS, Amiga Inc own the name, but essentially have given up the right to actually use it.  The Amiga name belongs to Amiga Inc and they have given an exclusive license to use it to CommodoreUSA, so essentially Amiga Inc cannot produce an operating system or a computer.  But since they never actually produced either of these in the past, it shouldn't be a problem....
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: djrikki on September 20, 2010, 04:00:50 PM
Quote from: persia;580375
Hyperion have an exclusive license to the name AmigaOS, Amiga Inc own the name, but essentially have given up the right to actually use it.  The Amiga name belongs to Amiga Inc and they have given an exclusive license to use it to CommodoreUSA, so essentially Amiga Inc cannot produce an operating system or a computer.  But since they never actually produced either of these in the past, it shouldn't be a problem....


"Hyperion have an exclusive RIGHT..."

Once again why do people feel the need to edit the original wording.  A 'license' is different to a 'right'.

Essentially Hyperion won the right to use AmigaOS (etc...), Amiga Inc didn't 'give it up' - it was taken from them in a court of law.  The rest of your paragraph is correct. :rtfm:
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: KThunder on September 20, 2010, 04:02:42 PM
Quote from: Golem!dk;579731
And this would be based on? pure speculation?


well since Dammy said "He could be getting Chinese financing."  emphesis on "he could be" yeay it would be based on speculation.

Given Barry's existing company I think it more likely he is financing this himself.

      We have hoped for years that a company would put time and money into anything amiga or commodore related and then we rip anyone apart who actually does so.

Honestly it is easier with barry compared to tulip or others who had their affairs more in order. but still geeze. If I had any aspirations to build hardware I would not build it for the commodore or at least Amiga crowd.

we are freaking rabid...
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: WolfToTheMoon on September 20, 2010, 04:51:28 PM
Quote from: djrikki;580387
"Hyperion have an exclusive RIGHT..."

Once again why do people feel the need to edit the original wording.  A 'license' is different to a 'right'.

Essentially Hyperion won the right to use AmigaOS (etc...), Amiga Inc didn't 'give it up' - it was taken from them in a court of law.  The rest of your paragraph is correct. :rtfm:

AmigaOS is still Amiga Inc.'s trademark, they just cannot use it while Hyperion is using it.  Amiga did gave it up, they settled.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Argo on September 20, 2010, 05:41:44 PM
Quote from: WolfToTheMoon;580345
And your link and quote only goes to show that they own only OS4 code. Trademarks they do not own, period.


Right, They don't. Amiga, Inc. ended the court battle with a settlement worked out and agreed to by Hyperion. Amiga, Inc. recognizes Hyperion as the sole owners of AmigaOS 4 and gave they the sole exclusive right to use AOS 3.1. Plus gave Hyperion sole use of the trademark "AmigaOS" and other associated trademarks, like the boing ball.  Problem is, basically those Amiga OS associated trademarks are also Amiga associated trademarks. As are Amiga OS and Amiga, the words.

Licensing the trademark "Amiga" to a third party could be legally seen as diluting the settlement agreement with Hyperion. Not to mention damage to Hyperion's market by causing confusion in the marketplace due to the extreme similarity in the trademarks.

Who should be sued? Why, Amiga, Inc.  

Quote
As part of the settlement agreement, the Amiga Parties acknowledge that Hyperion is the sole owner of AmigaOS 4 without prejudice to any third party rights.

Within the framework of the settlement agreement Hyperion is granted an exclusive, perpetual, worldwide right to AmigaOS 3.1 in order to use, develop, modify, commercialize, distribute and market AmigaOS 4.x (and subsequent versions of AmigaOS including without limitation AmigaOS 5) in any form, on any medium and for any current or future hardware platform under the exclusive trademark “AmigaOS” (Amiga operating system) and using other associated trademarks (such as the “BoingBall” logo).

Hyperion will continue development and distribution of AmigaOS 4.x (and beyond) as it has done since November of 2001.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: the_leander on September 20, 2010, 06:00:31 PM
Quote from: Argo;580402
Right, They don't. Amiga, Inc. ended the court battle with a settlement worked out and agreed to by Hyperion. Amiga, Inc. recognizes Hyperion as the sole owners of AmigaOS 4


Oh it's even more messy than that. Hyperion have the right to the binaries of OS4, but the code itself remains the property of the developers who wrote it (this is what happens when you don't pay your developers). This was tested and found to be true when the Frieden brothers successfully sued
Hyperion over the ExecSG code.

 
Quote from: Argo;580402

Licensing the trademark "Amiga" to a third party could be legally seen as diluting the settlement agreement with Hyperion. Not to mention damage to Hyperion's market by causing confusion in the marketplace due to the extreme similarity in the trademarks.


Hyperion could try, but tbh given the boneheaded moves they've pulled over the past 10 years, it'd be hard to prove damage to the market that wasn't down to Hyperion themselves.

Consider how well they've not done - in less than a month a guy selling re-branded Chinese zpc's has managed to garner more media attention than Hyperion has in the whole time they've been "developing" OS4.

Quote from: Argo;580402

Who should be sued? Why, Amiga, Inc.


Easy target given that they are at the present pretty much bankrupt.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: ChrisUnionNJ on September 20, 2010, 09:21:30 PM
Quote from: KThunder;580389
We have hoped for years that a company would put time and money into anything amiga or commodore related and then we rip anyone apart who actually does so.


we are freaking rabid...

This is the whole point CommodoreUSA is not helping the Commodore or the Amiga community's just playing on the name they create nothing just rebrand
computers.. :furious:
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: Golem!dk on September 20, 2010, 11:13:25 PM
Quote from: dammy;579784
Who else would have that type of money to invest in Chinese hardware?

Ah... assumptions... :)
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: tone007 on September 21, 2010, 01:11:27 AM
Quote from: ChrisUnionNJ;580444
This is the whole point CommodoreUSA is not helping the Commodore or the Amiga community's just playing on the name they create nothing just rebrand computers.. :furious:

Chris gets it.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: desiv on September 21, 2010, 01:19:47 AM
Quote from: tone007;580465
Chris gets it.
OK, so it's CommodoreUSA's job as a business to help the Commodore and Amiga community....
I missed that part somewhere..   :-)

So, as a business they aren't altruistic and they do some shady things...

hmm..  
Wait a minute...

That actually sounds a LOT like Commodore when I put it like that...
Is Jack back in charge?  ;-)


desiv
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: kedawa on September 21, 2010, 01:26:32 AM
In CUSA's defence, they do create some hilarious PR material.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: haywirepc on September 21, 2010, 03:17:56 AM
I think its funny that so many people are still fighting over the rights to os, the name, the boing ball, the logos, and the trademarks.

Silly Billy still trying to cash in again, probably selling rights to use the name "amiga" on commodore USA's STICKERS. STICKERS? Thats funny, these idiots paid silly billy to be able to print stickers. Thats funny!

Hey Silly Billy, I'm going to make and sell my own amiga stickers and shirts, and I dare you to sue me.

Commodore usa, get a clue you dumbasses, no one cares about a company slapping commodore OR amiga stickers on a computer you can get 30% or 40% cheaper elsewhere.

Scumbags like these commodore usa people still think they can get rich off the corpse of commodore. Amazing. Meanwhile people doing real work get ignored and no attention at all.

Steven
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: runequester on September 21, 2010, 07:13:05 AM
The guys who made the pegasos and amiga one machines?

Did something for the community by making a product.

The guys who did OS 3.5 and 3.9 ?

Did something for the community by making a product.

The guys at Hyperion ?

Did something for the community by making a product.

The AROS guys?

Did something for the community by making a product.

The Morph OS guys ?

Did something for the community by making a product.

The Imica and Aresone guys ?

Did something for the community by making a product.

The guy who uploaded a bunch of his techno music to youtube recently, that he made on an amiga?

He did something for the community by making a product.


Nobody gives a crap until you have actually done something.

We'll care about CUSA when they have actually done something.
Title: Re: Commodore USA
Post by: ChrisUnionNJ on September 21, 2010, 07:19:34 AM
This whole Commodore USA is just good clean entertainment now can't wait
 to see what happens next..:laughing:

Chris  :bitch: