Amigakit and their customer service...

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The site says:

Brand new and guaranteed. Drive mechanism may vary.

Is there any source of *new* Amiga branded or built-as from the factory Amiga only drives in 2008?  Also maybe some people don't know how or don't want to modify PC drives themselves?  (I'm asking as I have no idea).

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mongo wrote:

If there isn't, the site should say "Amiga compatible internal 3.5" floppy disk drive for the Amiga A1200 or A600.", not "Amiga internal 3.5" floppy disk drive for the Amiga A1200 or A600."

Probably should for the utmost clarification.  But it does say the mechanism may vary which seems to indicate that. We are talking about 16 year old machines here.  Like I said though I don't know much about these drives in the first place, so maybe my idea on what the expectation should be is off.

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They even seem to have "new" A1200 systems at stock so I assumed these are old stock all which would qualify as brand new if never used or opened from the package.

They state those new 1200s are NOS though.  Which they don't on the floppy drives.  Seems you both could have done better, you should not have assumed.  And Amigakit could have been a little bit clearer on their webpage.

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weirdami wrote:
mechanism isn't the same as form-factor.

Based on how its written I would say these drives should be expected to fit A600 and A1200 cases perfectly.  If not thats a big problem.  In this case this user has a third party case it sounds like.

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Darrin wrote:
Surely this would have been the option for you:

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=106

Nice its even cheaper than what he originally bought.   :-D

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Painkiller wrote:

The real problem here is that Amigakit isn't willing to compensate me in any way.

Wouldn't they compensate you by taking the drives back and refunding the purchase price?  You did make an assumption when you ordered that could have been easily addressed if you had asked them about it ahead of time.  The listing dosen't say NOS anywhere on it.  Its listed for machines from 1992.  And they say mechanisms may vary.  If those drives fit in A600 and A1200 cases and work as Amiga drives did then the most anyone can say is that it would have been nice if they used additionally, the word "compatible" in the listing.  It sounds like you want to keep the drives anyway but get 20 Euro back.  Why should they agree to that?

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Painkiller wrote:
I don't want to keep those drives I'd like to send them back but it costs almost 40 euros for me to send them back so what is the point really when they won't refund shipping for me? Nor did they say they would take them back as according to them they have not mispresented their product...

How much your post office charges is hardly their problem.  And are you saying they refuse to take them back?  Because it sounds like instead you are carefully wording it that they did not explicitly offer to do so in conversations you have had with them so far.

Especially based on their posted return policy (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/shipping.php) its important to be very careful as to what you order and ask questions first.  As it only seems to address faulty items.  But I think they should meet you half-way and take them back for a refund of the items themselves.

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Dwyloc wrote:
The last Amiga A1200 made by Amiga Technologies also used modified PC driver rather than Amiga ones so its possible that is what you have been supplied.

As such they would be real A600/A1200 drives just to the same as the Commodore supplied ones, not that that really helps you.

So it sounds like there is no such thing as a "real" Amiga drive.  So long as it fits in the A600 and A1200 case and reads and writes Amiga floppies then.  

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@Painkiller

I have to agree with Broken.  All you did by posting your communication exchange was verify that Amigakit was fair and courteous.  

There are no specific Amiga 880K floppy drives parts - Commodore and Escom/AT all used PC floppy drives modified to work with the Amiga- sometimes with jumpers, sometimes with hard wiring.

The A1200 floppy button varied in design depending on whether the A1200 had an Epson, Chinon, Teac, Panasonic or Sony drive. The Teac drives even featured three different designs of eject button.

The description does not confirm compatibility with the Infinitiv tower system- it specifies the Amiga 1200 or 600 as the suitable computers.

Unless someone can dispute what they say above they sold you what they said they were selling.  Its seems you are so angry about the money and your foolishness not to ask that you are childishly taking it out on Amigakit instead.

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Drives that came with Amiga didn't have dremel cut upper shell or cut and clued together eject button to fit A1200/A600 case. These drives have. Simple mention that these are modified drives is all that would have been needed, but they don't give you that info on the page. It like buying a new car from a store and asking if it has been crashed and then repaired...

I'm into classic cars Painkiller.  And what you have here is a classic computer.  Lets take a fairer comparison.  Like say a disc brake conversion kit for an old car.  Unless a seller says NOS on a disc brake kit for a car you have to assume thats its derived from something else.  Often that means from another type of car, but machined to fit yours.  Just because its been modified for a specific application does not make it used, so long as they used all new source component parts.  Now you may think they did a shoddy conversion, or that their source vendor did.  But thats a different issue, one that is *not* one of misrepresentation.  And why would you send back priority mail?  Just so you can sound like it will cost more to get it back to them?  Geez!

Amigakit also has already told you that plenty of OEM drives were modified units of PC core parts with a variety of eject button placements.  So this gives you even less of a leg to stand on.  It means you assumed not only these were NOS on your own with no reason to, but you also assumed all A1200 and A600 drives would be the same and hence fit.  Your later research that you probably need a Panasonic specifically is the research you should have done in the first place.  What exactly were the chances that they would have been sending you Panasonic units without even asking?

This dosen't even touch on the fact that your have a custom case.  And in the drag racing hobby when you start doing stuff on custom frames you learn to ask as many questions as you can upfront on any parts you need.  A good place to start would have been with the maker of the case.  And then you could have bounced what they had to say off of Amigakit.  And then avoided this whole mess entirely.

And if modifying a PC drive is such a walk in the park for you and if money is so tight why did you not just make a drive yourself?

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Painkiller wrote:

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None of the drives that came with Amigas were dremel jobs... These are. Buyer should know if the drives are modified PC drives do you not agree (it is not something that one should ask for to know)?

Since some of the OEM drives from Amiga in these machines were modified PC drives in the first place you argument holds no water, at all.  You've reduced yourself to saying that the modification method used should have been described for the product.  Since when does every product you buy come with a description of the manufacturing process??  What should it say?  Should it be like this:  "unlike Amiga who cut PC drives with metal shears to modify them for Amiga use, we use a dremel!".  Get real!  Amigakit may not even be the modifier vendor.

Didn't ask an Infinitiv Tower floppy drive, because internal A1200 drive should fit in it.

Which was an assumption on your part obviously.  If it needs the Panasonic and only Panasonic drives as you surmised earlier in this thread thats what you needed to ask about, you needed to ask if the drives Amigakit sold are exactly the Panasonic drives or like them in all dimensions, including the eject button.   Your lack at taking responsibility for your own actions is astonishing.

How would you feel if I were to sell you an Amiga and not mention what custom hacks I have done on it.

 When buying a 17 year old machine, which may have been through multiple owners, you learn to ask first Painkiller.

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Painkiller wrote:

The problem really here isn't wheter it would fit or not, but I should have know upfornt that these are same drives I can manufacture my self pretty easily without asking the seller.

Why?  How the hell would Amigakit know about your abilities to modify PC drives when all you did was order through his website without speaking to him?  And even if he did know about your abilities that dosen't mean squat.  I can cook a steak myself, but sometimes I want a restaurant to do it for me anyway because I don't feel like cooking.  You are being ridiculous.

How hard is it to write these are modified PC drives...

Easy, yes.  Necessary?  No.  Are extra details nice?  Yes.  Are they required?  No.  If you want to or need to know more, what do you do?  Ask!

For some this product is worth the price but to me it wasn't and I'm not happy because the product discription isn't totally honest.

Thats a bunch of bull that its not honest.  Have you been blaming others for your own mistakes your whole life?  Not honest would be if he said NOS and/or OEM, which he did *not* do.  You are really going out of your way to try to damage his rep unfairly.  You don't see that at all?

I expected an original Amiga part which wouldn't include cutsom modifications, but actually factory made parts.

Why?  Again it does not say OEM or NOS anywhere.  You already admitted earlier you made an ASSUMPTION because you saw he sells NOS 1200 complete computers that these were NOS too.  That was YOUR incorrect assumption and your fault and your problem.  End of story.

I'm amazed how easily stores could sell products that are in some ways modified etc. and not told in the discription and some of you guys would be fine with it...

The "modification" is part of the product.  When Ford built the 1969 Talladega they took rear Torino bumpers and cut them in half, welded in a middle peice of metal, grinded down the welds, chromed them and then stuck them on the brand new Talladegas for front bumpers.  So the rear bumper was as sent to them by their supplier.  But the front bumper was not.  Now is it a Talladega bumper?  Of course it is.  Now if I have a Talladega missing a front bumper today and someone says they are selling front Talladega bumpers and it does not say OEM or NOS, if I care if it is I better ask.  Otherwise I should assume they did the same thing Ford originally did.  And if they are created today to work, is it a Talladega bumper?  Yes it is.  Just not a NOS or OEM one.

But on the other hand if I take a Torino and then take a bunch of parts to make it look like a Talladega and try to purposely pawn it off as an *original* Talladega from Ford (like in your Macintosh example) then thats fraud.  Thats not what Amigakit did.  And its really sad you are trying to make it sound like Amigakit did something like that to you.

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Lorraine wrote:

If A600/1200 drives work in that Tower then why shouldn't a drive he orders to replace A600/1200 ones work with it also.

Painkiller has since admitted not all original A600/1200 drives work in that custom tower.  The tower design did not take into account the many different drives that came with A600s and A1200s over time.  Because he is mad at himself for not figuring that out ahead of time he is trying to find something else to {bleep} about so that its someone else's fault.  Thats the bottom line.

AmigaKit don't have to modify anything on their ads but why not? They know now the drives don't work in that Tower so they could either leave a note saying that or actually state what the drives are - modified PC drives rather than original Amiga ones.

They don't say that they are original Amiga drives and they list what their application is for, that being an original A600 or A1200 case.  Thats all they are saying the drives work with.  Once you start listing things it dosen't work in then you become responsible to figure out and list EVERYTHING it will not work in, and maybe you don't have that info.  If everything sold had to be like that then every product listing would be 50 pages long listing all the things it dosen't work with.  Thats silly.  If you have a custom case ask before you order.  

(And as a P.S., its been mentioned by Amigakit, that several original Amiga drives were modified PC drives, but again he never claimed what he was selling were NOS or OEM)

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Darrin wrote:
@ DannyP1:

Should AmigaKit also list that they won't fit up his ass either, just in case he wanted to install the drive in his rectum?    

No because he does not have his rectum measurements Darrin (or at least I seriously hope not!)

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J-Golden wrote:

If I were this dude/dudet, yes I would be anoyed at first, but then I'd be looking at the drive, the case, and my dremmel with an evil grin on my face thinking all kinds of cool ways to mount that drive...

Would you be annoyed at yourself, or at the company?