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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga User Group News => Topic started by: boing_net on June 15, 2003, 03:13:58 PM
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Today at AUG (http://www.aug.org.au) Bernie Meyer presented a demo of a modified UAE JIT for PPC on IMac/Pegasos.
Follow this link (http://pegasos.com.au/bernie2.html) to see the pictures.
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Boy oh boy, Bernie + Pegasos = some intereting developments :-)
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Welcome back to the Amiga Bernie!
You've been missed! :-)
I will buy an Amithlon type product for PPC if you release it.
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Will this be generally available for the mac? Amiga emulation under Mac OS X is very slow.
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Just an idea! :-o
Step with us through this...
1. We could have a fast UAE for MorphOs...not bad.
2. As UAE is GPL, all the work Bernie does could go to Hyperion.
3. Hyperion would then have a working JIT, as they would have the UAE sources. (Will Petunia be ready any time soon? Really?)
4. Hyperion has Mac experience and could generate considerable interest and success by bringing OS4 and Amiga games to Apple computer owners (sort of a cool Retro package initially and then GamePack II, etc.)
5. Ben can stay busy solving all the EULA problems :-) and...
The Amiga Community has a market again!!!
OK, now can we have some cooperation please!
BTW, our JIT will be ready for the MorphOS 1.4 AmiWest release.
Cheers to Bernie! :-D
Raquel and Bill :-)
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Like I just commented on ANN:
Since both OS4 and MOS has JIT compilers without custom chipset emulation on the feature list, what's the use of a non-chipset emulation JIT version of UAE?
Are you saying you can't get yours to work? ;-)
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olegil, actually it is an idea seriously considering.
Our JIT will be released at AmiWest. It is working fine and getting better.
Best regards,
R&B :-)
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To tell the truth, nobody has got decent 68k JIT to work except Amithlon and UAE. MOS has it, but it's still in beta and I can't comment on its completeness, since as bt2 I don't get to try it. OS4 will probably not have it to begin with either. Petunia was not what they hoped, it seemed.
Anyway, having Bernie on your "side" is far better wasting months of man hours on reinventing the wheel, no? :-) Do you think he would have got a free/cheap/loaned A1 from AInc? Somehow I don't think so. :-)
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Just an idea!
A better idea would be to contact all the players directly instead of leaving a comment on Amiga.org hoping they all happen to read it - or was this just another opportunity for you to point out that Petunia is not yet complete?
- Mike
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bill, did you forgot the 'Hyperion' part infront of OS4 ?
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Personally I'm hoping for UAE's direct integration into MOS - including paula, CIA and AGA support. I guess that's dreamland stuff. At least, I guessed so before Bernie's name reappeared in the community again. :-)
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So you have your own JIT, but need another? You didn't answer the ACTUAL question, just the cheek-in-tongue part ;-) (yes, I know it's really the other way around, but just imagine putting your cheek in your tongue, eh? Or better yet, cheek in thong :-) )
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>So you have your own JIT, but need another?
Read again. The JIT is for UAE which is under GPL.
Trance will not be under GPL/open source.
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Great work Bernie!
I am so excited he is involved with MOS community and again with Amiga emulation. JIT 68k for UAE on Mac is fantastic.. from the looks of it he's been working it out. I cant wait to run AmigaOS on this 500mhz IBook :) with Ibrowse and Miami dx it will be faster than OSx native on this thing!
Of course BBRV is pointing out that their JIT isnt working and MOS one is... dont you think Ford motors points out that a feature they have works as advertised and the competitor's, like say GM doesnt.... Its called business... and if previous and present "Amiga" companies had good business sense we would all be running Amiga OS right now instead of PC crap.
I'm tired of everyone blasting bbrv about speaking in public forums.. how the hell is anyone going to know the truth if its always hidden..
magnetic
:-?
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And MOS needs two JIT emulators, one GPL and one not BECAUSE ...?
Could someone please try to answer the QUESTION, not nitpick about the details?
Does MOS need two JIT compilers if none of them provide custom chipset emulation? I wouldn't think so, but Bill Buck seems to think otherwise.
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>And MOS needs two JIT emulators, one GPL and
>one not BECAUSE ...?
Not MorphOS but *UAE* for MorphOS.
"1. We could have a fast UAE for MorphOs...not bad."
Where is that sentence do you read "MorphOS will
use Bernie's JIT"?!
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@magnetic:
What I think is interesting, is that he's saying MOS needs a JIT compiler, at the same time throwing #### on Hyperion for not having theirs ready AND claiming (without any proof) that the one in MOS is ready.
So he's saying it's ready, but they need a replacement? What? Come on.
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>AND claiming (without any proof) that the one in
>MOS is ready.
BT1 users are using Trance for several months now.
BTW:
I even remember a show in Germany on which
Hyperion told some features about OS4 and
said "Well unlike others we will have a JIT" - and a
visitor shouted: "but the others already show it on
their booth."...
>So he's saying it's ready, but they need a
>replacement? What? Come on.
He never said something like that.
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(without any proof) that the one in MOS is ready.
The one in MOS is ready for use, I know this because I know people who use it every day. So you can give up on this particular line of attack and find another. If it can be improved, then of course this is a good way to do it. And since OS4, AROS and anyone else can get their hands on it too, there's no real point in you complaining about it.
Every MOS announcement gets turned into a f*cking flame war by people who have actually no clue about it for no good reason. I'm sick of it. Go troll on ANN.
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@olegil
But UAE-JIT does have custom chipset emulation.
However, to answer your question regarding what use there would be for another JIT emulation, that depends on how good Trance and Petunia turn out to be in practice, doesn't it? Bernie's JIT work has a proven pedigree, which is more than can be said for the other two at this moment in time.
Bernie always said he would have a bash at producing a PPC version of his JIT emulation if someone provided him with a PPC system to work on. It seems that once again he has delivered on his promises.
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@bhogget
Have You read the posts (http://ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1055672505&category=news&start=1&56#message16) of Bernd Mayer?
... So this thing has most custom chip emulation removed. ...
It might have some left, but this is written by Bernd Mayer!
But of course it will still be GPL, so you could intigrate the AGA emulation ;-)
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@hnl_dk
Have You read the posts of Bernd Mayer?
I hadn't. Thanks for the pointer.
But of course it will still be GPL, so you could intigrate the AGA emulation
Precisely. Bernie didn't work on the WinUAE integration directly either, but that also uses his JIT compiler.
Although I have no use for any PPC software - as I have no room in my budget for any PPC systems - I do agree with Bernie when he says he doing this "for fun". I can't help thinking that this community would be far better off with more people doing stuff "for fun" rather than "for the community".
(and yes, I do expect to be flamed for saying that...)
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So he's saying it's ready, but they need a replacement? What? Come on.
Ahem. Bernd Meyer plans to release his work under the GPL license which means *anyone* can turn his work into a full-blown UAE (including decent chipset emulation) which is something that would definetely come in handy for many (by relative terms) MorphOS, MacOS, LinuxPPC, etc. users. Got it?
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3. Hyperion would then have a working JIT, as they would have the UAE sources. (Will Petunia be ready any time soon? Really?)
4. Hyperion has Mac experience and could generate considerable interest and success by bringing OS4 and Amiga games to Apple computer owners (sort of a cool Retro package initially and then GamePack II, etc.)
5. Ben can stay busy solving all the EULA problems and...
The Amiga Community has a market again!!!
OK, now can we have some cooperation please!
Do you always hold a knife held behind your back with one hand as you shake hands with a person with the other?
Basically what you are saying is we want to co-operate with Hyperion because Hyperion are crap and we're not so nah-nah :-P
Believe it or not some of us would like to see REAL co-operation between Genesi and Hyperion (espeically when it comes to OpenAmiga and also getting OS 4 on Pegasos2). but this is sadly something that cannot happen while the childish attitudes continue.
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Think about this situation a little harder Unchartered...
R&B :-)
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Every MOS announcement gets turned into a f*cking flame war by people who have actually no clue about it for no good reason. I'm sick of it. Go troll on ANN.
I know how you feel, like everytime there is an item on AOS 4 or AmigaOne there's always some prick with a Pegasos telling everyone how bad AOS/A1/AINC/Hyperion/Eyetech, is and so on. It's not needed at all if you are not interested in the platfrom in question and have nothing useful/productive to add then #### off.
While it was probably going to happen anyway, the flaming on this particular thread was in fact started by BBRV with the Hyperion comments, so you can't really complain about people with "no knowledge" in this instance.
Like DaveP pointed out the other day, you seem to be flaming quite a lot these days (evidence on this thread and others), which is odd because you never used to, I don't remember you being negative about anything (well computer related anyway :-) ). Why is that?
Getting back to the topic in question, if Bernie does manage to evolve his little pert PPC project into a decent UAE for OS X or an Amithlon type thing for Mac, then I'll be a very happy bunny indeed.
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Think about this situation a little harder Unchartered...
OK think harder..........nnnnnnnnnnnnngh!.......done
Nope, it still is exactly the same. Care to come up with a better explaination/arguement? :-)
BTW like I pointed out before it's UNCHARTED as in unexplored, new, not charted. not UNCHARTERED as in accountant, surveyor, etc
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I know how you feel, like everytime there is an item on AOS 4 or AmigaOne there's always some prick with a Pegasos telling everyone how bad AOS/A1/AINC/Hyperion/Eyetech, is and so on.
It doesn't take a prick with a pegasos to tell you that AInc are worthless and the A1 is overpriced. Any common or garden variety prick can tell you that.
It's not needed at all if you are not interested in the platfrom in question and have nothing useful/productive to add then #### off.
And if everyone took that approach to the letter, AInc would be the first to #### off.
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Bernie is a smart cookie. and if he is happy doing ANYthing, he deserves it.
and if we are lucky enough to benefit, even in a small way, we are truly blessed.
all the best to him! :-D
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Will this be generally available for the mac? Amiga emulation under Mac OS X is very slow.
ARGH!! I HATE OSX! It's the bastard offspring of *nix and Windows XP made up to look like MacOS9. In the dark, with a light behind it.
After all of 6 hours' use, I'm seriously considering junking it for Linux, which doesn't have apps that seem to queue up to crash for you (of 10 mainstream apps tested, 7 crashed within a few minutes). Oh, if only I could install a PPC version of Berniethlon... but I'll settle for an updated UAE with JIT :-D
Must agree with Ole-Egil though: if MOS already contains an emulator for 68K AOS, why in the name of sanity would it need another? Especially since this one wouldn't be incorporated into the OS itself?
Macs are a different kettle of fish altogether.
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I know how you feel, like everytime there is an item on AOS 4 or AmigaOne there's always some prick with a Pegasos telling everyone how bad AOS/A1/AINC/Hyperion/Eyetech, is and so on. It's not needed at all if you are not interested in the platfrom in question and have nothing useful/productive to add then #### off.
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First of all, this started with from the Amiga side first, at the time that everyone believed their legal threats.
Secondly, I only troll about Amiga Inc.
Please do not put Amiga Inc. in the same string as Hyperion.
I *DO* care about OS4 and that's why I flame Fleecy&Co.
I'm afraid that they will once again ruin the situation.
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I occasionally use this 2+ year old version of MacUAE on a 500MHz iMac (OS 9.1). What it does, it does well so I won't bother with what it doesn't do. Anyway, I've got a plain install of 3.1 on it and everything is incredibly fast - I've certainly never seen a fastfilesystem quite this fast before.
Anyway, I'm more than positive about UAE on PPC (sounds like something a cheerleader would say...) and I'd really like to see it on non-throttled-system-bus with a 1+ GHz G4.
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@olegil,
MOS doesn't NEED two, it just WANTS two! ; } Just like you want two forums to pursue your particular pointed question repeatedly ; }
And that's the Amiga community for ya...
@uncharted,
"I know how you feel, like everytime there is an item on MorphOS or Pegasos there's always some prick with a Teron telling everyone how bad MorphOS/Pegaos is and so on. It's not needed at all if you are not interested in the platform in question and have nothing useful/productive to add then #### off."
I mean, really, it cuts both ways, and MorphOS was the ones to get piled onto for ages. Now it's pretty much certain people (and anonymous types) actually getting ugly about it continually. Most other people occasionally get a nudge or wink in ... and some even avoid going overly partisan whenever possible. Go figure ; }
Better to leave the whole "he hit me mommy" "well he hit me first" stuff in the scrapbook of our childhoods. Hey, maybe the hostility level would go a lot farther into the safe zone. Indeed: some are able to take a nudgey, a wink, or even a suggestion of possible future ways things could go without saying one CEO-type is a dirty so-and-so, when in fact the other side has had it's higher ups do similar. Even if some inferences might be there in BBRV's post it just doesn't seem like it should negate what else is said, and that post is certainly not outstanding in comparison to things said by others from the other camp.
And yet I never see you jumping out at them with rage. So maybe, just maybe, most of us including even greenboy could kind of examine our own actions and thoughts more, and those of others a tad less.
And so on. Now I must meditate on my transgressions - hasta la vista pro a'ready ; }
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if you asked me what one single person has done the most for this community...it would be Bernie hands down... the guy has done so much for this community and taken so much flack, asking so little... I really admire the guy's spirit to keep comming back at it after the failure's and anti-sentiment he's encountered trying to build a viable product for all of us... if he could get in with Genesi and work with them on something I think it would be really terrific to see the synergy it could create... it really would be wonderful.
rock on bernie...
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Would there be an upgraded for the Cloanto’s Amiga Forever 5.x (AmigaOS licensed) package?
Does Bernie still have the official AmigaOS licenses?
It seems that there's maybe a slight** product overlap between the two (or three) AmigaOS licensees.
**Hyperion has duty of officially progressing the AmigaOS (e.g. AmigaOS 4.x). While the other licensees focusing on AmigaOS 3.x.
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@Hammer
I think Cloanto can include this in the next version of AmigaForever, just like they have included the previous PPC UAE.
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Am I the only one who got to see MorphOS JIT working at some fair? In my case it was the CeBIT in Germany earlier this year. I was playing around with a Pegasos (especially with ImageFX AFAIR) at the Genesi booth and asked the (nice) person at the booth, why ImageFX did take so long to start up and wether that system was running with JIT enabled (I didn't know it wasn't released yet, mixed that up). So he told me: "no, no, JIT isn't released yet, but wait ...". So he fetched a CD, put it in, copied some libs, rebootet the Pegasos and all the emulated 68k apps were flying .... :-D I was able to play a bit longer with MorphOS and JIT (as the booth wasn't very crowded) and it seemed to work pretty good back then, but I'm not able to tell you, HOW stable it was (hey, ~20min of testing aren't much). I just know that it wasn't crashing at every 2nd mouse click *g* No, seriously, it seemed to work pretty good . Frederik :-P
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I hope he adds socket support :-D
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@greenboy
> MOS doesn't NEED two, it just WANTS two! ; } Just like you
> want two forums to pursue your particular pointed question
> repeatedly ; }
What I can't understand is why you claim olegil needs two forums to question the very same question repeatedly, when this reaction (where he repeats the same question on different forums) derivates by the very same repeated posts made by BBRV here and on ann, and God knows where...
Olegil points a good question IMO, and maybe it's BBRV's interest not to answer, then the question to be made is why not...
I know BBRV is driven (and has to) by marketing and as such one of his main interests ought to be to spread his message all over, but just cut&paste msgs from one forums to another!?
And then you point out others cuts, when your biggest friend do it all the time!?
There's a saying:
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye"
Luke 6:41-42
I'm hoping for the day where these fights end and instead of these splits on community, we could have parts working together in whichever model that may be… or at least not slagging each other to death…
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I don't get this "Why do you need 2, how dare you want options" stuff. Options and varity never hurt any product IMO. I'm pretty happy with my Peggy/MOS, yet I wouldn't mind buying OS4 to play around with. You would rather me close my mind to alternatives if i am happy with a product? :-?
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ARGH!! I HATE OSX! It's the bastard offspring of *nix and Windows XP made up to look like MacOS9. In the dark, with a light behind it.
After all of 6 hours' use, I'm seriously considering junking it for Linux, which doesn't have apps that seem to queue up to crash for you (of 10 mainstream apps tested, 7 crashed within a few minutes).
Well I guess its a matter of choice, there is no way I'd ever use OS9.x I find it sucks. Nearly 20 years of bodging has left a messy system with no system security, poor multitasking and just plain uglyness.
I find MacOS X (10.2.6) great, I use it as my sole operating system (aside from using a PC for Amiga Emu), and I never have any problems (and this is with REALLY intensive use).
Compare this with MacOS 9 where like about the 3rd time I use it I tried installing a peice of software, my mac then crashed and refused to boot.
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@Greenboy
I mean, really, it cuts both ways, and MorphOS was the ones to get piled onto for ages. Now it's pretty much certain people (and anonymous types) actually getting ugly about it continually. Most other people occasionally get a nudge or wink in ... and some even avoid going overly partisan whenever possible. Go figure ; }
Better to leave the whole "he hit me mommy" "well he hit me first" stuff in the scrapbook of our childhoods. Hey, maybe the hostility level would go a lot farther into the safe zone. Indeed: some are able to take a nudgey, a wink, or even a suggestion of possible future ways things could go without saying one CEO-type is a dirty so-and-so, when in fact the other side has had it's higher ups do similar. Even if some inferences might be there in BBRV's post it just doesn't seem like it should negate what else is said, and that post is certainly not outstanding in comparison to things said by others from the other camp.
And yet I never see you jumping out at them with rage. So maybe, just maybe, most of us including even greenboy could kind of examine our own actions and thoughts more, and those of others a tad less.
It just sounds to me that you are sticking up for Bill just because it's Bill. It's like all those people who are attacked for sticking up for Amiga Inc. because they own the name.
Look closely at my avatar you'll see that the trolls are identical aside from the colour.
I'm afaid that although your last sentance certainly is true, the rest of your posting like Bill's and everyone elses that I pull up on is full of meaningless misdirections and finger pointing. I'm still waiting for BBRV to actually come up with something a tad better that "Think harder or Look at the bigger picture".