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AuthorTopic: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC  (Read 14405 times)

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guest7146

  • Guest
Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #90 on: May 30, 2011, 12:11:31 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;641349
The 750 (G3) *might* be feasible too.

Delshay and Statchu100 would be the people to ask about that.

Statchu100 tried a G3 and it didn't work.  I don't think he made any modifications though, he literally just soldered it in place of the 603 and tested the board.  I'm not sure if he ever took it any further than that.

AH
 

Offline Franko

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #91 on: May 30, 2011, 12:13:24 PM »
@ Karlos & AppleHammer

Thanks for the info... :)

I've often noticed Statchu100's stuff on ebay and here and wondered if he had upgraded them himself or it that's the way he bought them, need to have a look through some of his old posts... :)
 

Offline Karlos

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #92 on: May 30, 2011, 12:17:43 PM »
As far as I know, the 603e is a BGA package, so with the right equipment, taking it out and putting a faster one in is fairly straightforward (without the right equipment, don't even attempt it). After that, you basically need to change the multipliers and clock crystals accordingly. IIRC, the multipliers are set via a block of four SMD resistors that you'd need to rearrange.

As tempting as it is, I've resisted the urge to fiddle with my BlizzardPPC. They aren't cheap to replace.
int p; // A
 

Offline Franko

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #93 on: May 30, 2011, 12:25:03 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;641356
As far as I know, the 603e is a BGA package, so with the right equipment, taking it out and putting a faster one in is fairly straightforward (without the right equipment, don't even attempt it). After that, you basically need to change the multipliers and clock crystals accordingly. IIRC, the multipliers are set via a block of four SMD resistors that you'd need to rearrange.

As tempting as it is, I've resisted the urge to fiddle with my BlizzardPPC. They aren't cheap to replace.


Think you may be right there, it was nerve wracking enough when I had to desolder the edge connector on my BPPC to replace it with a new one... think I might just shelve that idea for now... :)
 

Offline Iggy

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #94 on: May 30, 2011, 12:46:52 PM »
Quote from: magnetic;641314
Iggy glad you finally saw the light :) I would hate for you to take on an impossible mission...

Well, I still hold that it not impossible. BUT, I often posted here that while you CAN do something SHOULD you?
After I got some information of the amount of programmable logic on the CSPPC, the amount of work needed just looked too massive.
The card needs a re-design. Much of that logic is obsolete and you would probably want to combine it all into one FPGA.
Heck, thanks to the Virtex 5 series you could even incorporate the PPC  into the same FPGA (maybe even the 68K core as well).

I'm not adverse to good advice, so I considered what you'd said, Jeff's comments, and a really nasty post from Thomas Dellert that Andreas dug up for me

Using Phase5's original work doesn't make much sense.

Quote from: magnetic;641314
many many times have semi serious ppl in the amiga community  contempleted a new ppc card. Nobody has done it as its not worth the  time and effort by a longshot.

GOOD point. I'm into pain, but THAT much?

Quote from: magnetic;641314
btw why do you have this commdrscot in your sig?

For awhile I was convinced Franko just wanted to be a contrary sod, but he has made important points about free speech, the necessity of NOT holding your tongue, and the HIGHLY questionable claim that ANYONE owns the rights to Workbench/AOS.

So William Wallace was right, freedom is most important.

@Karlos - You know what the real pisser is? Thomas Dellert not only would rather burn the Phase5 documentation then release it, but he probably has a G4 design that could be updated more readily then the 604e/603e designs.

I've got every bit as bad an opinion of him as he does of the Amiga community (worse actually). HE blames US for HIS business failures.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #95 on: May 30, 2011, 12:54:00 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;641356
As far as I know, the 603e is a BGA package, so with the right equipment, taking it out and putting a faster one in is fairly straightforward (without the right equipment, don't even attempt it). After that, you basically need to change the multipliers and clock crystals accordingly. IIRC, the multipliers are set via a block of four SMD resistors that you'd need to rearrange.

As tempting as it is, I've resisted the urge to fiddle with my BlizzardPPC. They aren't cheap to replace.

Yes, BGAs can be replaced and there are companies willing to do the work at such a low price that even if I had the equipment I would probably farm out the work.
Statchu100 has played with CSPPC upgrades, but it hardly seems worth it. 333 Mhz for the PPC? You'd hardly notice the difference.

I didn't think a G3 would work as a drop in.

Freescale's 5200B has a compatible (with the 603e) core , but would not work as an upgrade to an existing CSPPC.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Karlos

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #96 on: May 30, 2011, 01:11:19 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;641360
Statchu100 has played with CSPPC upgrades, but it hardly seems worth it. 333 Mhz for the PPC? You'd hardly notice the difference.


It's a 43% clockspeed increase over the fastest CSPPC ever sold by phase5 (233MHz) and a 66% increase over the much more common 200MHz version. Hardly insignificant.
int p; // A
 

Offline Iggy

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #97 on: May 30, 2011, 01:17:00 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;641364
It's a 43% clockspeed increase over the fastest CSPPC ever sold by phase5 (233MHz) and a 66% increase over the much more common 200MHz version. Hardly insignificant.

I think its relatively insignificant. I remember similar speed differences in the x86 market. You'd never get me to go through that much trouble for those kinds of gains.

Unless you were just doing it for the shits and giggles of it. THEN, it makes sense.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Plaz

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #98 on: May 30, 2011, 02:41:18 PM »
PM sent Iggy, I'll help. I've no delusions about marketing a card, but like Iggy I love to learn and enjoy a challenge. Silly? Your first "hello" program was silly, but it was a step towards grander things.

As for Nasa engineers... contractors make up the bulk of Nasa projects and I've worked among them. They're not necessarily smarter than many here. They're just really really focused and equally well funded.

Plaz
 

Offline Iggy

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #99 on: May 30, 2011, 03:36:31 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;641364
It's a 43% clockspeed increase over the fastest CSPPC ever sold by phase5 (233MHz) and a 66% increase over the much more common 200MHz version. Hardly insignificant.

Actually, my other statement was a bit rash.

With the X86 platform I didn't get that much performance boost with parts from above 200Mhz to 400Mhz.
But I bought a 450Mhz K6-III and was quite surprised. I spent a lot of time installing/recommending the cache on processor K6s (K6-III, K6-III+, and K6-2+) to friends and business associates.
The re-assignment of the 2X multiplier to 6X was great for both overclocking and for use in older machines that didn't have a 100Mhz FSB or higher multipliers.

As many came back to me, I had a lot of K6+ sales on Ebay. Almost all shipped to Germany (obviously the land of fanatics who must see how far things can be pushed). Also understandable as AMD had a Fab at Dresden (now owned by Global Foundries).
 
Due to my obsession with the last Socket7 processors , I was late in moving to later CPU architectures. However, when I bought my first SocketA processor (a low end 600Mhz Duron) I stunned.
At 600Mhz the Duron way outperformed the K6-III/2+ (and it could overclock to as high as 800Mhz).
So the change in design outweighed the pursuit of higher clock speeds.

It was a useful lesson when the P4 was introduced. I dismissed that line from its introduction and eventually gain my vindication.

With a successor to the CSPPC, we need something like what you were looking forward to (the G4) or at least say a 550Mhz 440 core.

And any compatibility will have to be software only. I don't need Thomas Dillert's sore feelings dragged into this.

Take care Karlos.

Jim
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #100 on: May 30, 2011, 04:45:36 PM »
Quote from: Plaz;641384
PM sent Iggy, I'll help. I've no delusions about marketing a card, but like Iggy I love to learn and enjoy a challenge. Silly? Your first "hello" program was silly, but it was a step towards grander things.

As for Nasa engineers... contractors make up the bulk of Nasa projects and I've worked among them. They're not necessarily smarter than many here. They're just really really focused and equally well funded.

Plaz

Thanks Plaz.
That brings the total to three, plus a few who are willing to offer advice.
Better then I hoped for.
Going back to studying Virtex-5 FXT literature.

Take care all.

Jim
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

guest7146

  • Guest
Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #101 on: May 30, 2011, 04:54:04 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;641356
As far as I know, the 603e is a BGA package

Most of the PPC cards I've seen have a 603 in BGA package, but a number of years ago I actually had one with a 603 in a standard SMD package.
If you check your BPPC card you'll see that it has a BGA footprint in the centre (which has a 603 soldered onto it) and a standard SMD footprint around the outside.  So the card can take both packages.

The old BPPC card I had a number of years ago was the only one I saw that actually had an SMD version of the 603 fitted though.

AH
 

Offline Plaz

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #102 on: May 30, 2011, 05:26:22 PM »
One other option not mentioned is what might be partnered or licensed from the Natami project. It wouldn't be PPC, but incorporating their 68050 (and later 68070?) core in to a classic card expansion might be doable since they're going for classic compatibility anyway.

Plaz
 

Offline Plaz

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #103 on: May 30, 2011, 10:40:55 PM »
Iggy, thanks for forwarding that old thread from amiga-news.de with Mr. Dellerts reply. I think I recall reading it years ago, but had forgotten. If I'm reading correctly, the mythical $200,000 euro price tag is actually a combination of the developement tools, software, and test equipment that Mr. Dellert feels would likely be needed to re-develope the old card to replace obsolete components. It wasn't necessarily what would be charged for the lot of old documentation. Unfortunately the message gives no indication they we're willing to release the existing documentation even though it was obsolete even in 2005. Mr Dellert also feels that such things are beyond the hobbiest abilities. Of course he hadn't heard of the Minimig or FPG Arcade back in 2005, so we'll let him slide on that one.

Plaz
 

guest7146

  • Guest
Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #104 on: May 31, 2011, 12:00:04 AM »
Quote from: Plaz;641451
Mr Dellert also feels that such things are beyond the hobbiest abilities. Of course he hadn't heard of the Minimig or FPG Arcade back in 2005, so we'll let him slide on that one.

Plaz

Well, the term "hobbyist" implies amateur, but that doesn't have to be the case.  It could very well be a professional electronics design Engineer who also likes to work on his own projects in his spare time.  The projects he (or she) does in his spare time are his "hobbyist" projects.

AH