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AuthorTopic: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC  (Read 14405 times)

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Offline Jeff

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Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #75 on: May 30, 2011, 01:00:41 AM »
While I appreciate the "impossible challenge" just as much as the next person let me understand the reasoning. The end result in such a board is what, to run OS4 correct? If so we already have expensive options for that available now. The only other reason I can think of is to run 3.x PPC software. I didn't try any of these apps when I had my CS-PPC and Blizzard-PPC. Is there some killer app worth all this time and effort that won't run on the currently available options?

I really am just curious, not just trying to start something.  It seems like all the work has already been done for some years now.
 

Offline Iggy

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #76 on: May 30, 2011, 01:59:13 AM »
Quote from: magnetic;641265
Iggy

Ok buddy, you should start taking pre orders too

No, my company actually produced the hardware we offered and we never took advance orders.
Besides, I didn't say I wanted to produce these.

I just want to find out how they were designed.
Difficult, not impossible.

Problem one, though. No new 604e processors. NOS yes. But only the 603e remains in production. Even e300 cored products like the 5200B (used in the Efika) are labeled as "not recommended for new designs".
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline HammerD

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #77 on: May 30, 2011, 02:04:33 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;641252
We don't need Ralph's help with this.

And I agree that an FPGA 68K core may be an attractive option. As would a different PPC processor (the Phase5 card uses a relatively slow one - a 603e isn't it?)


604e in the Cyberstorm, 603e in the Blizzards.

For a new board:

FPGA for 68K (to boot the system and run OS 3.9)
PPC SoC like the CPU in the SAM 460
RAM on-board
SATA on-board
Video on-board (if you can fit it like Sam 460)
USB and LAN on-board

Basically a computer on a cpu card.

Then i would buy it ;-)
AmigaOS 4.x Beta Tester - Classic Amiga enthusiast - http://www.hd-zone.com is my Amiga Blog, check it out!
 

Offline Iggy

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #78 on: May 30, 2011, 02:17:21 AM »
Quote from: Jeff;641269
While I appreciate the "impossible challenge" just as much as the next person let me understand the reasoning. The end result in such a board is what, to run OS4 correct? If so we already have expensive options for that available now. The only other reason I can think of is to run 3.x PPC software. I didn't try any of these apps when I had my CS-PPC and Blizzard-PPC. Is there some killer app worth all this time and effort that won't run on the currently available options?

I really am just curious, not just trying to start something.  It seems like all the work has already been done for some years now.

Thanks for the open question, Jeff. Additional scepticism I don't need right now.
Actually, the only point would be to expand original 3000 and 4000 Amigas.
From a practical viewpoint, this would not even require Phase5 compatibility.
The only advantage to PowerUp compatibility would be the ability to run AOS4.1 and MorphOS 1.45 immediately without new ports.

As a current MorphOS user (and someone with an interest in OS4) I can easily see your point. I've been encouraging legacy users to move to NG platforms for years.
This entire exercise is to intended to be practical. Paying over $1000 for a 200Mhz accelerator for your A3000/4000 isn't practical either.

So I looking at options that would slightly increase performance and at least halve the price. About a 400Mhz PPC and 256MB of RAM.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #79 on: May 30, 2011, 02:25:50 AM »
Quote from: HammerD;641283
604e in the Cyberstorm, 603e in the Blizzards.

For a new board:

FPGA for 68K (to boot the system and run OS 3.9)
PPC SoC like the CPU in the SAM 460
RAM on-board
SATA on-board
Video on-board (if you can fit it like Sam 460)
USB and LAN on-board

Basically a computer on a cpu card.

Then i would buy it ;-)

Thanks for the input HammerD.
I like the idea of an SoC too. I already dug out the specs on the 5200B and will look at more capable chips (the only advantage to the 5200B is that its e300 core is 603e compatible).
I'll talk to a few people about the FPGA. This may be the right direction to pursue (but obtaining a '060 compatible core would be the main problem).

Two parallel avenues to explore now. Phase5 PowerUp compatible (but enhanced) and totally new. Let see what makes sense.

BTW - Looking at the size of the processor card your ideas seem possible. Video might have to be an add on (but then it was on the Cyberstorms as well). With an SoC everything else should fit.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 02:28:13 AM by Iggy »
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Jeff

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Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #80 on: May 30, 2011, 03:05:04 AM »
I like the ideas being discussed in this thread. Projects/Products are sometimes born from threads like this, IE Minimig, ect. It would be great to have a board like NatAMI, Minimig, FPGA Arcade, Jens Clone-A, PC with UAE, or ??? with an 060-PPC option board so such a substantial investment in time and money wasn't relying on such old and dying machines. Don't get me wrong, I love my classic machines - they just aren't getting any newer:)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 03:23:09 AM by Jeff »
 

Offline Mizar

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #81 on: May 30, 2011, 04:04:40 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;641281
No, my company actually produced the hardware we offered and we never took advance orders.
Besides, I didn't say I wanted to produce these.

I just want to find out how they were designed.
Difficult, not impossible.


Wow, I didn't know there were electronic engineers with their own company here!  :)  If you're going to figure how to create a new PPC accelerator for A3000/4000 Amigas, why not produce and sell some?  And how about some for the 1200 also?
Amiga Tech. A1200: Apollo 1230/40 MHz & 882/50 MHz, 32 MB fast RAM, WD 298 GB HD (320 SI GB), Sony 1760 KB floppy, Surf Squirrel SCSI-II & buffered  serial, Ricoh CDRW 6x4x24, USR 33.6 Kbps modem, MV1200 scan doubler, Compaq 17" SVGA, KS 3.1, OS3.9 BB1, Genesis 45.7, Miami 3.2b, AWeb 3.5.09 APL

C= A500: 68000, 512 KB chip, 512 KB fast, 880 KB floppy x 2, 1084S, KS 1.3, OS 1.3
 

Offline HammerD

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #82 on: May 30, 2011, 04:49:09 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;641290
Thanks for the input HammerD.
I like the idea of an SoC too. I already dug out the specs on the 5200B and will look at more capable chips (the only advantage to the 5200B is that its e300 core is 603e compatible).
I'll talk to a few people about the FPGA. This may be the right direction to pursue (but obtaining a '060 compatible core would be the main problem).

Two parallel avenues to explore now. Phase5 PowerUp compatible (but enhanced) and totally new. Let see what makes sense.

BTW - Looking at the size of the processor card your ideas seem possible. Video might have to be an add on (but then it was on the Cyberstorms as well). With an SoC everything else should fit.

If it's phase5 compatible it may work with MorphOS powerUP, WarpOS/PowerUP (68k), and AmigaOS 4.1 Classic...

060 in the FPGA is not really required, you could have a minimig cpu core in there...it will probably run pretty fast anyway with the more modern technology around it.  (unless the cyberstorm emu needs 060? - edit, I don't think so, since some of them shipped with 040's).
« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 04:57:37 AM by HammerD »
AmigaOS 4.x Beta Tester - Classic Amiga enthusiast - http://www.hd-zone.com is my Amiga Blog, check it out!
 

Offline Iggy

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #83 on: May 30, 2011, 05:50:56 AM »
Thanks again for the input today guys. Both from forum members here and elsewhere.
After examining what documentation I could find I've decided that Magnetic (amongst others) has made some good points.

So I'm NOT going to examine any Phase5 hardware to review the design of the CyberstormPPC. Thomas Dellert can keep his outdated designs.But that doesn't mean I have conceded to defeat in this.

More to follow in the next few days. I promise to sum this up better by Friday.

Goodnight
Jim
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline magnetic

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #84 on: May 30, 2011, 07:03:34 AM »
Iggy glad you finally saw the light :) I would hate for you to take on an impossible mission...

many many times have semi serious ppl in the amiga community contempleted a new ppc card. Nobody has done it as its not worth the time and effort by a longshot.

btw why do you have this commdrscot in your sig?
bPlan Pegasos2 G4@1ghz
Quad Boot:Reg. MorphOS | OS4.1 U4 |Ubuntu GNU-Linux | MacOS X

Amiga 2000 Rom Switcher w/ 3.1 + 1.3 | HardFrame SCSI | CBM Ram board| A Squared LIVE! 2000 | Vlab Motion | Firecracker 24 gfx

Commodore CDTV: 68010 | ECS | 9mb Ram | SCSI -TV | 3.9 Rom | Developer EPROMs
 

Offline Franko

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #85 on: May 30, 2011, 11:41:31 AM »
Quote from: magnetic;641314
Iggy glad you finally saw the light :) I would hate for you to take on an impossible mission...

many many times have semi serious ppl in the amiga community contempleted a new ppc card. Nobody has done it as its not worth the time and effort by a longshot.

btw why do you have this commdrscot in your sig?


Because unlike you the man is intelligent & has a sense of humour... ;)
 

Offline Karlos

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #86 on: May 30, 2011, 11:48:15 AM »
I would have sold organs (not necessarily my own) for the BlizzardG4 back in the day. If only it had come to pass.

http://www.nutts.demon.co.uk/blizzg3.html
int p; // A
 

Offline Franko

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #87 on: May 30, 2011, 11:53:53 AM »
Quote from: Karlos;641343
I would have sold organs (not necessarily my own) for the BlizzardG4 back in the day. If only it had come to pass.


I've never really looked properly at the PPC chip on my BlizzardPPC board (603) @ 2240Mhz but I've often wondered if it would be possible to replace the PPC chip itself with a faster one or even a 604, any ideas if that is possible... :)
 

Offline Karlos

Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #88 on: May 30, 2011, 12:02:00 PM »
Quote from: Franko;641346
I've never really looked properly at the PPC chip on my BlizzardPPC board (603) @ 2240Mhz but I've often wondered if it would be possible to replace the PPC chip itself with a faster one or even a 604, any ideas if that is possible... :)


I don't think a 604 is a feasible upgrade due to pin/bus differences but people here have certainly upgraded the onboard 603 for a faster part. I've heard claims that over 300MHz has been achieved. The 750 (G3) *might* be feasible too.

Delshay and Statchu100 would be the people to ask about that.
int p; // A
 

guest7146

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Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC
« Reply #89 on: May 30, 2011, 12:08:59 PM »
Quote from: Franko;641346
I've never really looked properly at the PPC chip on my BlizzardPPC board (603) @ 2240Mhz but I've often wondered if it would be possible to replace the PPC chip itself with a faster one or even a 604, any ideas if that is possible... :)

You can replace the 603 with a faster version - that's been done before and clock speeds >300MHz have been achieved.

However, unfortunately you can't replace the 603 with a 604.  I looked into this before, and if I remember correctly the reason you couldn't do it was because the 603 has configurable 64/32 bit bus size (and the Blizzard board is designed around a 32-bit bus size) but the 604 is 64-bit bus size only.

AH