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Author Topic: New A600 A1200 Accelerators  (Read 7255 times)

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Offline zipper

Re: New A600 A1200 Accelerators
« Reply #29 from previous page: November 19, 2010, 08:01:42 AM »
It's clearly told that the expected date is 30. November (1230/28) and 7. December (rest).
 

Offline amigakitTopic starter

Re: New A600 A1200 Accelerators
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2010, 08:29:47 AM »
@XDelusion

The accelerators are still available to pre-order from us here (delivery in a few weeks):

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=43
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Offline XDelusion

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Re: New A600 A1200 Accelerators
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2010, 08:48:07 AM »
Yes, yes, and if you look you'll see I had edited my post.

It's amazing how certain words or images jump out at you when you're anxious. I saw "Not agailable" and let out a long and cheesy Prequel Vader "Nooooooo!!!!" Shortly there after I realized that there were other words there too. :)

Thankx AmigaKit, you've saved the day, or at least you will have if you've still got one for sale in 2 or 3 weeks when I actually have the money. What's up with your page anyhow? You're going to give me a heart attack!!! :)
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

guest7146

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Re: New A600 A1200 Accelerators
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2010, 12:15:16 PM »
Quote from: Hattig;592842
2 clock cycles for access setup, and 1 clock cycle for the first and each of three successive accesses based on the initial setup.


Thanks very much for the response Hattig.  I took a look at your link too, thanks for that.

I'm still not entirely certain that I'm understanding this, though.  In fact, I'm pretty certain that I'm not.  This is how I've interpreted it:

2 clock cycles pass between initially accessing a location in RAM and the data for that location becoming available.

Then, somehow, only 1 clock cycle passes between the next three accesses.

Why is this? Presumably the following three memory access operations will be for different locations so I would have thought that the same delay between access and available data would apply as in the case of the first access?
Also, what is special about the following three memory accesses? Why should a forth consecutive memory access not benefit from the same thing as the third?
And, finally, what do you mean by "successive accesses based on the first setup"?

Thanks!

I should make clear that I'm not trying to cast doubt upon the specification, I am clearly not in a position to do that, I am merely trying to understand it, that's all.
AH.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: New A600 A1200 Accelerators
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2010, 12:28:27 PM »
The successive accesses will "Burst", that is to say be from sequential memory locations. It allows fast memory reads if you read all your data in blocks.

If your access are random then you have to set up each time.

Offline Hattig

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Re: New A600 A1200 Accelerators
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2010, 12:33:05 PM »
Quote from: AppleHammer;593031
Thanks very much for the response Hattig.  I took a look at your link too, thanks for that.

I'm still not entirely certain that I'm understanding this, though.  In fact, I'm pretty certain that I'm not.  This is how I've interpreted it:

2 clock cycles pass between initially accessing a location in RAM and the data for that location becoming available.

Then, somehow, only 1 clock cycle passes between the next three accesses.

Why is this? Presumably the following three memory access operations will be for different locations so I would have thought that the same delay between access and available data would apply as in the case of the first access?
Also, what is special about the following three memory accesses? Why should a forth consecutive memory access not benefit from the same thing as the third?
And, finally, what do you mean by "successive accesses based on the first setup"?

Burst mode.

1) Set Up Memory Address A to Read From
2) Read data at A
3) Read data at A + 1
4) Read data at A + 2

Internally DRAM is wider (e.g., 4096 bits) than the external bus width (e.g., 32 bits*). Think of DRAM as a 2D array of memory cells, e.g., 4096 rows x 4096 bits = 16mbit / 2MB. When you set the memory address to read from in a DRAM an entire row is selected, and from that a column is read. These are RAS and CAS (Row, Column Select). First setup sets up RAS and CAS.

Someone worked out that if you don't need to change RAS, you can read multiple columns by updating CAS only.

Then someone else worked out you could simply increment CAS internally to the RAM, and keep on pumping out the data in a burst. For SDRAM this burst length is 4 (I think). Newer memories have longer bursts. There are alignment issues too, you can't burst over the end of a row, and so forth.

This is a simple explanation, and I'm sure I've got things inaccurate and will be corrected!

* actually many DRAMS have 1-bit, 4-bit, 8-bit or 16-bit external buses, and you use multiple DRAMS in parallel to get the desired memory bus width.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 12:37:26 PM by Hattig »
 

Offline DaNi

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Re: New A600 A1200 Accelerators
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2010, 12:44:59 PM »
is unreasonably expensive than in the year 2010 costs 224 euros a slow 68030 accelerator for A1200
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guest7146

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Re: New A600 A1200 Accelerators
« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2010, 01:18:35 PM »
@Hattig, Bloodline

Yep, that's great - I fully understand that now.  Thanks!

AH.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: New A600 A1200 Accelerators
« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2010, 01:26:38 PM »
Quote from: DaNi;593038
is unreasonably expensive than in the year 2010 costs 224 euros a slow 68030 accelerator for A1200
Hmmm, taking that into consideration I'm gonna suggest you don't buy one then...

guest7146

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Re: New A600 A1200 Accelerators
« Reply #38 on: November 19, 2010, 01:35:27 PM »
Quote from: DaNi;593038
is unreasonably expensive than in the year 2010 costs 224 euros a slow 68030 accelerator for A1200

Hi DaNi.

I think there's a huge difference between "expensive" and "unreasonably expensive".

What you're basically saying is that in the year 2010, when we can buy cheap PCs with >3GHz multicore processors for just a couple of hundred quid (or dollars, pick your currency), then you consider it expensive to spend a couple of hundred dollars on a 56Mhz accelerator for an old computer.
Well... yes, okay.  Depending on what you want it for, of course.  So to say it is comparatively expensive to modern equipment is simply a matter of opinion.

But to say it's "unreasonably expensive" is incorrect.  If you consider the amount of work that has to go into the design of a product like this, and then sourcing the parts, getting the PCBs made at a FAB house, getting the boards built at a contract manufacturer (or by yourself if you're hardcore), all for just a couple of hundred sales, then really I think we're looking at a very good deal here.  It is very expensive to get products made on these scales so the profit margains for the people involved in the design and resale of this will undoubtedly be quite small.

So to summarise:

Expensive? Depends on your opinion and what you want the product for.

Unreasonably expensive? No, it's not.
 Far from it.

AH.
 

Offline Tahoe

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Re: New A600 A1200 Accelerators
« Reply #39 on: November 19, 2010, 01:39:42 PM »
Quote from: DaNi;593038
is unreasonably expensive than in the year 2010 costs 224 euros a slow 68030 accelerator for A1200


Then simply don't buy one. Buy a second hand, 15 year old Blizzard MK4 on Ebay then, for 175,-. Which is actually slower.

BTW: It's 197 euro, not 224. It's your choice to live in Spain.
Greetings from Wilnis, The Netherlands
Now owning ALL Amiga models and most; if not all; flavours of them...My Amiga Museum
 

guest7146

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Re: New A600 A1200 Accelerators
« Reply #40 on: November 19, 2010, 01:42:27 PM »
Quote from: Tahoe;593055
It's your choice to live in Spain.

I live in windy, rainy South Wales.  You could say it's my choice to live here, but then I don't think I'd mind swapping it for sunny Spain at all! ;-)
 

Offline Tahoe

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Re: New A600 A1200 Accelerators
« Reply #41 on: November 19, 2010, 01:45:12 PM »
Quote from: AppleHammer;593059
I live in windy, rainy South Wales.  You could say it's my choice to live here, but then I don't think I'd mind swapping it for sunny Spain at all! ;-)


You're not complaining about a 26 euro shipping cost, which has nothing to do with the price of an accelerator :).


I'd prefer rainy South Wales above NL though, wouldn't mind a house either somewhere there or in the highlands of Scotland.
Greetings from Wilnis, The Netherlands
Now owning ALL Amiga models and most; if not all; flavours of them...My Amiga Museum
 

Offline Franko

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Re: New A600 A1200 Accelerators
« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2010, 01:46:13 PM »
Quote from: DaNi;593038
is unreasonably expensive than in the year 2010 costs 224 euros a slow 68030 accelerator for A1200

Well you have the option to bid for an old card on ebay with roughly the same specs & no guarantee that it works and you could if your very lucky save yourself around 30 quid and pray that you even get it in the first place... :)

Sounds like a plan... :rolleyes:

(@ Tahoe, if I clear some of the bodies from my basement, you'd be more than welcome...)
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 01:48:45 PM by Franko »
 

Offline DaNi

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Re: New A600 A1200 Accelerators
« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2010, 04:41:41 PM »
Quote from: AppleHammer;593053
Hi DaNi.

I think there's a huge difference between "expensive" and "unreasonably expensive".

What you're basically saying is that in the year 2010, when we can buy cheap PCs with >3GHz multicore processors for just a couple of hundred quid (or dollars, pick your currency), then you consider it expensive to spend a couple of hundred dollars on a 56Mhz accelerator for an old computer.
Well... yes, okay.  Depending on what you want it for, of course.  So to say it is comparatively expensive to modern equipment is simply a matter of opinion.

But to say it's "unreasonably expensive" is incorrect.  If you consider the amount of work that has to go into the design of a product like this, and then sourcing the parts, getting the PCBs made at a FAB house, getting the boards built at a contract manufacturer (or by yourself if you're hardcore), all for just a couple of hundred sales, then really I think we're looking at a very good deal here.  It is very expensive to get products made on these scales so the profit margains for the people involved in the design and resale of this will undoubtedly be quite small.

So to summarise:

Expensive? Depends on your opinion and what you want the product for.

Unreasonably expensive? No, it's not.
 Far from it.

AH.


I admire the work but I donĀ“t  think the production costs are so high for an accelerator of these low-level features in this time.
I see more interesting equipped accelerator with 68060, 68030 is very limited compared with high-end 68060 core.
I remember playing mpeg videos with my blizzard and high quality mp3, playing doom, duke nukem and genetic species with fullframe rate and fullscreen on my 1200 blizzard.
EFIKA 5K2 PowerPC G2 400Mhz, MorphOS 2.7, 128MB 266MHz DDR RAM, FSB 133MHz, 500GB HDD, Radeon 9200 PRO 128MB, USB HUB x8.
 

Offline runequester

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Re: New A600 A1200 Accelerators
« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2010, 05:02:39 PM »
I've seen far weaker cards go for far more money, and we're talking about stuff that's been sitting in someones basement for 10 years but "totally worked last time I used it"