Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Marketplace => Topic started by: nicholas on May 27, 2011, 05:53:25 PM
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In the next few weeks I might be in the market for a CSPPC to put in my A3000.
Anyone want to part with theirs? PM me with offers please.
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you might need a mortgage for one lol
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In the next few weeks I might be in the market for a CSPPC to put in my A3000.
Anyone want to part with theirs? PM me with offers please.
Wow Nicholas, be prepared to spend big bucks.
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Wow Nicholas, be prepared to spend big bucks.
I'm selling a kidney. ;)
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I'd like to have a ppc accelerator for my A4000 too but I don't see it ever happening. you may as well just buy a Sam460 1ghz is way better than 160mhz anyway.
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I'd like to have a ppc accelerator for my A4000 too but I don't see it ever happening. you may as well just buy a Sam460 1ghz is way better than 160mhz anyway.
I've got several MOS compatible Macs and a Pegasos 1, but A1's and Sams don't appeal to me at all for some reason.
PPC in my A3000 would scratch an itch though.
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I'd consider part exchanging my CS060 Mk2 for a CSPPC btw.
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I've a Cyberstore PPC in my A3000 that I think I'm getting ready to part with. It's an 060@60mhz, 233mhz PPC, with 128mb@60ns (pretty much the highest specs one can get with this card). I too had an itch a few years ago that caused me to drop $$$$. When I was just a punk kid I could never afford one of these!
Anyway, I've had fun with it and gotten it out of my system. It now sits on the shelf and I only bust it out a couple time a year.
I rationalized the purchase by telling myself that I'd be able to get most of my money back when I went to sell. For that reason I'd need at least $1,300 USD. I know there can be hostile sentiment around these parts when someone asks a high price for old Amiga stuff; I'm certainly not looking to profit from this. Let me know if you have any interest.
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Ouch! Better sell both kidneys Nicholas.
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For that reason I'd need at least $1,300 USD. I know there can be hostile sentiment around these parts when someone asks a high price for old Amiga stuff; I'm certainly not looking to profit from this. Let me know if you have any interest.
Not to bag on you in any way - that's about an average price for one.
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I have to disagree, though I think the cyberstorm ppc is very valuable $1300 is stretching it. $1k is good
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I have to disagree, though I think the cyberstorm ppc is very valuable $1300 is stretching it. $1k is good
Wow! If they're worth that much why hasn't somebody figured out how to clone them?
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Simple. So far it has cost to much in both time and money for little or no return on investment. Look how much the SAM's cost and be glad they are even available at all. Those are probably as close as you will get for a while.
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Simple. So far it has cost to much in both time and money for little or no return on investment. Look how much the SAM's cost and be glad they are even available at all. Those are probably as close as you will get for a while.
I don't know. The cost of the components on a Cyberstorm PPC aren't anywhere near that high.
I'm not sure what the market would be, but if Jens can still find buyers for 68K accelerators there ought to be a market for PPC accelerators.
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I don't know. The cost of the components on a Cyberstorm PPC aren't anywhere near that high.
I'm not sure what the market would be, but if Jens can still find buyers for 68K accelerators there ought to be a market for PPC accelerators.
I used to think that the A3000/T and A4000/T CPU connectors were these rare beasts but somewhere in my multi-hundreds of bookmarks I've got a source for the pin edge connectors for those things.
I think the A1200 edge connectors are a bit harder to source though (they probably have to be custom built)
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You really are Persian! That's how most young people pay off debts in Iran nowadays....
I'm selling a kidney. ;)
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I'd consider part exchanging my CS060 Mk2 for a CSPPC btw.
Don't forget the "INT_2" mod for your A3000!
http://amiga.serveftp.net/A3000_INT2_mod.html
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I don't know. The cost of the components on a Cyberstorm PPC aren't anywhere near that high.
I'm not
Obsolete parts (and pretty much all parts on the CSPPC are obsolete by now) often have an extremly high asking price when bought NOS.
Then you would need to organize production and end up with a product that can't be sold legally in the EU (unless you do miracle work in turning 15++ years old part RoHS-compatible).
Also remember that the prices are only so high because the small group of potential buyers is meet with an even smaller group of potential sellers.
Just won't work buisness wise.
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I'm failing to see why classic hardware is still pulling in such high prices. Software is so much more advanced these days that you can't do anything productive.
You can't read/write Office 2003/2010 documents (which is the standard), there isn't a proper web browser.
Apart from wasting time and tinkering, what else can this kit be used for?
If you're into games, I can see the merit in paying $50 for an old A500, but not paying $1000+ when you can buy a desktop or laptop that could do so much more?!?!?
Is it just me, or does logic fly out the window when it comes to the Amiga community?
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Supply and demand. Simples.
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I'm failing to see why classic hardware is still pulling in such high prices. Software is so much more advanced these days that you can't do anything productive.
You can't read/write Office 2003/2010 documents (which is the standard), there isn't a proper web browser.
Apart from wasting time and tinkering, what else can this kit be used for?
If you're into games, I can see the merit in paying $50 for an old A500, but not paying $1000+ when you can buy a desktop or laptop that could do so much more?!?!?
Is it just me, or does logic fly out the window when it comes to the Amiga community?
Its just you. I use my A4000/csppc with mediator daily to do everything from listen to mp3's to handle my web store emails.View pdf's(well most).The mediator gives me 100MB ethernet,SB128 and a 1280x1024x32 workbench.Even tho the browser is old,Ibrowse still works for paying all my credit card bills and with my bank just fine.I print to a color xerox laser with netprinter.device fine.I still like picshow over many picture viewers on most platforms.dvd burning is handled with fryingpan or crazy franko's utilities. using 2-32gb cf's on the UWSCSI chain as hard drives makes it pretty quick and reliable(21MB/s!).Deneb makes using usb anything a breeze.It actually reads pictures in off my sony camera as fast as the 3ghz dell near me.Don't get me wrong,a a bit more speed would always be nice.
I actually get stuff done since i'm not rebooting from updates every 5 minutes
I honestly don't have any need for word documents,so this may be a point of contention to some.
Its costly to do this,but i take good care of my stuff and i have no worries it will bring the price i paid for it easily(i will never sell it...but if i do ;).
Best of all theres virtually no virus trouble ever(i call it security thru obscurity :).
Obviously your results would be half as good on a A1200 which is signifigantly slower with simular expansions because of the bottlenecks and the blizzardppc 32 bit ram addressing and old narrow scsi vs the csppc 64bit memory addressing + UWSCSI and well as mediator bottlenecks..
So when people like you say its not usefull,i just have to think you have a total lack of imagination. You just need to use what works for you and quit obsessing over what it is.
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I used to think that the A3000/T and A4000/T CPU connectors were these rare beasts but somewhere in my multi-hundreds of bookmarks I've got a source for the pin edge connectors for those things.
I think the A1200 edge connectors are a bit harder to source though (they probably have to be custom built)
You'll have to PM me a few of the better sources for those. The only real problem with new PPC accelerators would be obtaining good design documentation/schematics. We could actually build faster units (and possibly add more memory).
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Obsolete parts (and pretty much all parts on the CSPPC are obsolete by now) often have an extremly high asking price when bought NOS.
Then you would need to organize production and end up with a product that can't be sold legally in the EU (unless you do miracle work in turning 15++ years old part RoHS-compatible).
Also remember that the prices are only so high because the small group of potential buyers is meet with an even smaller group of potential sellers.
Just won't work buisness wise.
Are the Europeans really going to enforce RoHS rules on a limited number of hobbyist built devices?
And every time I think an old component is unobtainable or way too high priced, I find a source for them.
And believe it or not there are some 68060s that are RoHS-compatible (although most lack FPU and MMU).
A PPC replacement that is RoHS-compatible should not be nearly as hard as both Applied Micro and Freescale still have older lines in production or available.
Before you completely discount the idea, it ought to be examined.
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You'll have to PM me a few of the better sources for those. The only real problem with new PPC accelerators would be obtaining good design documentation/schematics. We could actually build faster units (and possibly add more memory).
I'm not finding the link; I think I saw it posted at EAB (always a good go-to for that sort of thing).
if you ask in support.hardware there's bound to be someone who remembers. It may have been Alex H. who posted it up.
Point being, I took one look at the connector and had an "Oh my god, that's really the right one!" moment.
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@iggy
This is surely way over head for pure hobbist and as soon as you make any kind of buisness out of it your bound bind the law (and yes thats a goog thing).
Neither Applied Micro nor Freescale over 100% pincompatible and RoHS friendly 603/604s and a redisign would blow costs out of water (mind you "we" will probraly also fail at getting the pcb-layout from Phase5/DCE anyways).
If you think that is simple, just look back at all the effort Jens had to put into his rather simple 030 bases ACA-cards.
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I'm failing to see why classic hardware is still pulling in such high prices. Software is so much more advanced these days that you can't do anything productive.
You can't read/write Office 2003/2010 documents (which is the standard), there isn't a proper web browser.
Apart from wasting time and tinkering, what else can this kit be used for?
If you're into games, I can see the merit in paying $50 for an old A500, but not paying $1000+ when you can buy a desktop or laptop that could do so much more?!?!?
Is it just me, or does logic fly out the window when it comes to the Amiga community?
@ ck007
Office 2003/2010 documents !!! erm... what are those... !!!
They may be the "standard" in your house but I have never in 30 years of using computers ever had to use them (nor even know what they are but I can guess)... so just what makes you think they are the "standard" for everyone... ;)
PS: if you wanna talk "standards" then FinalWriter would be the "standard" that I use... :)
Wasting time, tinkering & playing games... maybe that's all you've ever used an Amiga for, then fine, plenty of other folk put them to far more useful purposes than that... :)
I use my Amiga's for all computing purposes except the net, this includes things such as DTP, Printing, Creating Audio, Creating Gfx, Editing Photos, Creating MP3s & Music Cd's, Burning CD's & DVD's, Letter Writing, programing, playing the occasional game, tinkering, Video work and a whole host of other stuff... :)
So YES I would say it's JUST YOU, nothing illogical about using Amiga's, sure it may be a bit more expensive but when you want the best you have to pay for it, simple as that... :)
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@iggy
This is surely way over head for pure hobbist and as soon as you make any kind of buisness out of it your bound bind the law (and yes thats a goog thing).
Neither Applied Micro nor Freescale over 100% pincompatible and RoHS friendly 603/604s and a redisign would blow costs out of water (mind you "we" will probraly also fail at getting the pcb-layout from Phase5/DCE anyways).
If you think that is simple, just look back at all the effort Jens had to put into his rather simple 030 bases ACA-cards.
Yes, I'd absolutely agree with you that where this whole proposal collapses is in obtaining Phase5's schematics or PCB layouts.
As far as redesign goes, I'm not your typical hobbyist in that I have some rather expensive design and layout software and I used to work for a company that built its own 68K based systems.
And yes, I was actually proposing a redesign to use compatible (but not pin compatible) PPCs.
Sounds horribly complicated, but with the right software its actually just tedious and time consuming.
At one point, before the MorphOS team adopted G4 Mac support, I'd completed about 50% of the work to convert a Freescale MPC8640 design to use an ATI SB600 (instead of a Uli Southbridge). Now THAT was difficult.
I don't think this would be as hard, except for one qualifier (two actually). The design would have to remain completely Phase5 software compatible. And, if I'm not mistaken, it violates the MorphOS development teams terms of agreement to use their software on boards built by other companies.
So, I'll place this one on the back burner, and accumulate data and suppliers list for it.
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Its just you. I use my A4000/csppc with mediator daily to do everything from listen to mp3's to handle my web store emails.View pdf's(well most).The mediator gives me 100MB ethernet,SB128 and a 1280x1024x32 workbench.Even tho the browser is old,Ibrowse still works for paying all my credit card bills and with my bank just fine.I print to a color xerox laser with netprinter.device fine.I still like picshow over many picture viewers on most platforms.dvd burning is handled with fryingpan or crazy franko's utilities. using 2-32gb cf's on the UWSCSI chain as hard drives makes it pretty quick and reliable(21MB/s!).Deneb makes using usb anything a breeze.It actually reads pictures in off my sony camera as fast as the 3ghz dell near me.Don't get me wrong,a a bit more speed would always be nice.
I actually get stuff done since i'm not rebooting from updates every 5 minutes
I honestly don't have any need for word documents,so this may be a point of contention to some.
Its costly to do this,but i take good care of my stuff and i have no worries it will bring the price i paid for it easily(i will never sell it...but if i do ;).
Best of all theres virtually no virus trouble ever(i call it security thru obscurity :).
Obviously your results would be half as good on a A1200 which is signifigantly slower with simular expansions because of the bottlenecks and the blizzardppc 32 bit ram addressing and old narrow scsi vs the csppc 64bit memory addressing + UWSCSI and well as mediator bottlenecks..
So when people like you say its not usefull,i just have to think you have a total lack of imagination. You just need to use what works for you and quit obsessing over what it is.
I've been looking for a long time trying to find someone with a legacy system that was powerful enough for typical daily use. Congratulations on proving me wrong (as I've often contested that legacy hardware just couldn't compete with NG systems for daily use).
One of the points you make is very valid. An expanded 4000 would be much more competent then an expanded 1200. Which makes the idea of new PPC accelerators for 3000s and 4000s attractive.
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@ ck007
They may be the "standard" in your house but I have never in 30 years of using computers ever had to use them
PS: if you wanna talk "standards" then FinalWriter would be the "standard" that I use... :)
M$ Office documents are so widespread in their use that they have become the global standard. That's a fact, whether you choose to accept it or not.
OpenOffice goes some way towards bridging this standard because it offers a degree of compatibility with M$ Office documents. OpenOffice for the Amiga will be very welcome, if we ever get it.
The M$ Office standard may not be an issue for someone whose career/job doesn't involve interaction with computers (or someone who perhaps doesn't have to work at all), but for everyone else M$ Office compatibility is very important.
AH.
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Wow! If they're worth that much why hasn't somebody figured out how to clone them?
The problem is that they're only worth that much to a very small number of classic Amiga enthusiasts. If these were to be re-manufactured in significant numbers (significant as taken to mean >200 for example), then no company would be able to shift them all for that much. The price would have to come down significantly, to <£500 I would guess.
Re-manufacturing the old BPPC and CSPPC cards would be the cheapest way to go, but this would involve obtaining all of the design information. It would be good if we could obtain this information (even from a self interest point of view), but I doubt they will ever release it unfortunately, which is a shame.
Assuming we did obtain all the information necessary to re-manufacture the boards, then we'd have all kinds of obselecence and Rohs compliance issues to deal with as Kronos has already mentioned.
The better way forwards would be to develop a completely new PPC accelerator. But then you're talking about significant design costs, which would need to be recouperated in sales. There's probably not enough money in the current market to do that, and that's why nobody has come up with a PPC replacement so far.
It seemed like Elbox had got pretty far with their SharkPPC cards. I'm not sure why these never gor released, and it is a shame for sure.
AH
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M$ Office documents are so widespread in their use that they have become the global standard. That's a fact, whether you choose to accept it or not.
It's not a case of whether I accept it or not, it's just down to the simple fact that I've never had to use any of these Word/Office documents in my life. So even if it's a fact or not, it simply doesn't apply to me or affect me... :)
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It's not a case of whether I accept it or not, it's just down to the simple fact that I've never had to use any of these Word/Office documents in my life. So even if it's a fact or not, it simply doesn't apply to me or affect me... :)
Yep that's fine - I can understand that it doesn't affect the average Scotsman living in his underground lair :)
AH
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The problem is that they're only worth that much to a very small number of classic Amiga enthusiasts. If these were to be re-manufactured in significant numbers (significant as taken to mean >200 for example), then no company would be able to shift them all for that much. The price would have to come down significantly, to <£500 I would guess.
Re-manufacturing the old BPPC and CSPPC cards would be the cheapest way to go, but this would involve obtaining all of the design information. It would be good if we could obtain this information (even from a self interest point of view), but I doubt they will ever release it unfortunately, which is a shame.
Assuming we did obtain all the information necessary to re-manufacture the boards, then we'd have all kinds of obselecence and Rohs compliance issues to deal with as Kronos has already mentioned.
The better way forwards would be to develop a completely new PPC accelerator. But then you're talking about significant design costs, which would need to be recouperated in sales. There's probably not enough money in the current market to do that, and that's why nobody has come up with a PPC replacement so far.
It seemed like Elbox had got pretty far with their SharkPPC cards. I'm not sure why these never gor released, and it is a shame for sure.
AH
If I'm not mistaken SharkPPC cards were just modified Apple PCI accelerator cards.
A new PPC design would be attractive, but we'd have no software support.
Convincing Hyperion or the MorphOS development team to support such an effort would be very difficult.
However, when I look at the design for the original Efika, I'm inclined to agree with you.
We have the schematics for that. The Open Firmware would be difficult to reverse engineer. But a 256MB 400Mhz 5200B accelerator is doable and would be cheap.
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Yep that's fine - I can understand that it doesn't affect the average Scotsman living in his underground lair :)
AH
If that last comment of yours weren't so true I could have gone on rant about it... ;)
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It's not a case of whether I accept it or not, it's just down to the simple fact that I've never had to use any of these Word/Office documents in my life. So even if it's a fact or not, it simply doesn't apply to me or affect me... :)
That's fascinating. Not having used Word format documents is a little like never using a PDF. I have to agree its become a standard. I used to use Ami Pro, then Wordperfect, but Word just stream rolled right over its competitors.
I'm not sure Open Office is the best direction for us to head, but Word format support is essential.
BTW - What's this got to do with PPC accelerators?
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That's fascinating. Not having used Word format documents is a little like never using a PDF.
BTW - What's this got to do with PPC accelerators?
Not quite sure why that would be fascinating as I could name countless people I know who haven't done so either... :)
Until I got these iMacs last summer I had only ever used one PDF file (1940/42 Service Manual) that I downloaded on my sisters PC a number of years ago and that until last summer was the only PDF I had ever viewed and used on my Amiga... :)
BTW - this has got nothing to do with PPC accelerators, not quite sure how we got on to this subject... :)
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>BTW - this has got nothing to do with PPC accelerators, not quite sure how we got on to this subject... :)
Like we ever stay on topic.
Actually, the only thing I've found essential with Word files is the ability to read them or convert them to a format I can edit on my own word processor.
This is why I find Open Office to be less then ideal. Its file conversions are often flawed.
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If I'm not mistaken SharkPPC cards were just modified Apple PCI accelerator cards.
Were they indeed? I wasn't aware of that. If true, that probably explains why we saw evidence of boards that appeared quite complete, but we never saw an end product.
A new PPC design would be attractive, but we'd have no software support.
Convincing Hyperion or the MorphOS development team to support such an effort would be very difficult.
The MorphOS team abandoned classic Amiga quite some time ago, so there would possibly be a significant amount of work involved in supporting a new PPC accelerated classic Amiga setup. If this is the case, then you could be right on that front.
But OS4 already has support for BPPC and CSPPC. I can't imagine a newer accelerator being that far away compatability-wise, so support from Hyperion probably isn't so far-fetched. In fact, I would imagine that any prospective PPC accelerator developer would try to obtain Hyperion's agreement for OS4 support before bothering to go ahead.
But this is all academic discussion really, because it's unlikely we'll see a new PPC accelerator for the classic Amiga. I'd love to see one, and would definitely be a potential buyer if one were produced, but unfortunately I don't think we're likely to see it :(
AH
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@ AppleHammer
Yeah, the thing that's troubling is a new design could be affordable (compared to making more Phase5 compatible cards).
Less software compatibility would also reduce their appeal.
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Re-manufacturing the old BPPC and CSPPC cards would be the cheapest way to go, but this would involve obtaining all of the design information. It would be good if we could obtain this information (even from a self interest point of view), but I doubt they will ever release it unfortunately, which is a shame.
Assuming we did obtain all the information necessary to re-manufacture the boards, then we'd have all kinds of obselecence and Rohs compliance issues to deal with as Kronos has already mentioned.
Someone, either here or at AW.net said they'd tracked down one of the chief designers of the P5 boards asking about that very thing (releasing the designs) and was quoted $200,000 as the lowest starting price for that info.
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Someone, either here or at AW.net said they'd tracked down one of the chief designers of the P5 boards asking about that very thing (releasing the designs) and was quoted $200,000 as the lowest starting price for that info.
That is way beyond realistic. I have my doubts that the entire original run of those cards netted that much.
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That is way beyond realistic. I have my doubts that the entire original run of those cards netted that much.
I just recall that as being what was quoted as the asking price. I'm of the opinion (if I am remembering correctly) it was so high because virtually anyone who has tried to make a business out of anything Amiga winds up embittered and spiteful - to a one. If that's the case then why would anyone want to do anything decent and charitable for a community they hate?
What was it Ben Hermans said not too long ago? That all Amiga users could go die in a fire for all he cared or something like that?
If that's the prevalent mindset, is it any wonder an engineer would pull this "nyah nyah you can't have it" attitude.
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Ben is obviously very conflicted. I've exchanged messages with him. Sometimes he can be very charming.
And there are some in the community that would like to spit on his grave.
Ben Hermans, Bill McEwen, Barry Altman - all lightening rods for controversy.
If I had a broken Phase5 card and a lot of time, I could figure out the layout.
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If I had a broken Phase5 card and a lot of time, I could figure out the layout.
I mentioned doing this very thing a little while back. I have two broken PPC cards, and I was considering making one good one out of the two and then removing all the components from the donar card with a view to trying to map out the PCB.
It sounds like a good idea, but in practice it would take a very patient person with a lot of time on their hands. I'm not sure how many layers the board is, but we can assume >4 I think. And you'd need to be able to see all of the layers - not sure if you'd get away with a light box. If not you'd need an X-Ray machine.
Obviously, board layout isn't the whole story. There's plenty of programmed devices to consider as well.
It's a shame we can't just get our hands on the info though. The technical info is useful for just keeping our machines going, even if we can't ever justify designing out the obselecence/non conformity and doing a new production run.
AH
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I
Obviously, board layout isn't the whole story. There's plenty of programmed devices to consider as well.
It's a shame we can't just get our hands on the info though. The technical info is useful for just keeping our machines going, even if we can't ever justify designing out the obselecence/non conformity and doing a new production run.
AH
That top part is what slowed me down with a re-implementation of a Freescale evaluation design. But even that can be overcome if you can figure out what it does (not how, what).
The board layers, yes an x-ray could prove useful, but then you have to figure out how to separate the layers. Another, much longer process, would be to test all the leads for continuity and re-create the schematic from the results.
But would all this hard work make sense? I don't know. But there would be the sense of accomplishment in defeating this and gaining the info.
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That's fascinating. Not having used Word format documents is a little like never using a PDF.
Actually not at all "fascinating",i'd say "Sad" If a person has actually lived in the real world, had a real job , a real life, etc etc they would never make a statements like "i've never used a word document file" and to brag about it is even more embarassing
But back to more relevant discussion...
I've used OOO since ver 1 and the versions the past couple of years give very few, if any format errors when loading/saving m$ docs afaik.
@ BootDisk
Can you please state who it is this person from phase 5 they talked to? There are only 3 people in the world (maybe 4) that have that data, and by stating a number like $200k sounds like "dont bother me" :)
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Actually not at all "fascinating",i'd say "Sad" If a person has actually lived in the real world, had a real job , a real life, etc etc they would never make a statements like "i've never used a word document file" and to brag about it is even more embarassing
But back to more relevant discussion...
Get a life you sad little person... ;)
Carpenters don't have much use for word documents you know, but then you would understand that living inside the confines of your own single brain cell... :)
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>BTW - this has got nothing to do with PPC accelerators, not quite sure how we got on to this subject... :)
Like we ever stay on topic.
Actually, the only thing I've found essential with Word files is the ability to read them or convert them to a format I can edit on my own word processor.
This is why I find Open Office to be less then ideal. Its file conversions are often flawed.
All the more reason to make plain text standard, then apply formatting through LaTex :lol:
I think there is LaTex for amiga...
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I've used OOO since ver 1 and the versions the past couple of years give very few, if any format errors when loading/saving m$ docs afaik.
I'm in the same area as you, and noticed that once OO was doing superbly on translating the documents, MS went .docx and small issues started sprouting up again. Granted, I'm at the point where I rarely if ever even use office, but I do save in .doc format a lot just to be able to email things to other ppl for their own reading. I find the bigger issues arise when you have a very graphics intensive layout, or try wonky spacing techniques (i.e., my wife - master of the thirty space-bar word shuffle).
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Can you please state who it is this person from phase 5 they talked to? There are only 3 people in the world (maybe 4) that have that data, and by stating a number like $200k sounds like "dont bother me" :)
Mmm nope. This was as I said in a thread either here or at awn, you'd have to search. I wonder if it was Thomas Dellert? Does that ring a bell?
Like I said it was ages ago.
I still think any commercial ventures to do with "advancing" the Amiga create spiteful people.
Jens Schonefeld and the various natami team members, fpga-Amiga cloners and Toni Wilen are all exempt from that; they seem to have a healthy attitude towards what they're doing. Once people get some pie in the sky amiga is going to take over the world attitude their brains break and when it doesn't happen, and the complaints roll in because they can't deliver, the haterade starts flowing.
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Mmm nope. This was as I said in a thread either here or at awn, you'd have to search. I wonder if it was Thomas Dellert? Does that ring a bell?
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It would have to be Thomas Dellert this is the ahole who owns "DCE" he is the guy really responsible for the whole Phase5 going under debacle. I know Thomas and Gerald of bplan personally and I knew that it would have had to have been him to say this. (the other person is Ralph Shmidt since he was in phase5 but i know for sure it wasnt him to say some silly thing like that haha) Whats really sad is even the bplan guys cant talk to Dellert. And they were partnered at one point, but apparently Dellert screwed them. (This is based on conversations I had with them when we with Motorola @ SNDF Dallas)
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It would have to be Thomas Dellert this is the ahole who owns "DCE" he is the guy really responsible for the whole Phase5 going under debacle. I know Thomas and Gerald of bplan personally and I knew that it would have had to have been him to say this. (the other person is Ralph Shmidt since he was in phase5 but i know for sure it wasnt him to say some silly thing like that haha) Whats really sad is even the bplan guys cant talk to Dellert. And they were partnered at one point, but apparently Dellert screwed them. (This is based on conversations I had with them when we with Motorola @ SNDF Dallas)
Wow Mag! That was controversial enough to get a quote on MorphZone.
You're famous.
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trying to map out the PCB.
Could be done. It was once part of my job many years ago to reverse multilayer boards for testing and design flaws. I think a 6 layer was the most difficult I ran accross. What's the PPC card, more than 6? At one time long ago when I ran many A3000 repairs, I reversed much of the A3000 motherboard. That was kind of cheating though as I could check my work against the schematics that were available. Made popping out 3000 repairs pretty cinchy after that though.
As tough as the card schematics might be, there'd be no way to repeat the firmware without plucking it out of the existing chips. That'd be a trick. All sounds like great fun to me, but like most everyone, I just don't have the spare time I once did for additional projects.
Plaz
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Could be done. It was once part of my job many years ago to reverse multilayer boards for testing and design flaws. I think a 6 layer was the most difficult I ran accross. What's the PPC card, more than 6? At one time long ago when I ran many A3000 repairs, I reversed much of the A3000 motherboard. That was kind of cheating though as I could check my work against the schematics that were available. Made popping out 3000 repairs pretty cinchy after that though.
As tough as the card schematics might be, there'd be no way to repeat the firmware without plucking it out of the existing chips. That'd be a trick. All sounds like great fun to me, but like most everyone, I just don't have the spare time I once did for additional projects.
Plaz
I agree. It could be done, but it would be time consuming and tedious.
Can anyone tell me how much programmable logic was used?
Occasionally I get a rise out of pursuing something painful.
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iggy
The problem is my memory could be wrong and some people would get mad. It was 6 years ago, but I do remember it fairly well.
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Sounds "wrong" as Mr Dellert wasn't part of Phase5. The name that pops up in my mind is Wolf Dietrich who was the "CEO" of Phase5 and therefore responsible for mishandling the G3/4-prepay money.
All AFAIR/AFAIK offcourse ;)
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kronos
actually I think you are "wrong" as I never stated Dellert worked for phase 5. I said Dellert is "DCE" and he now owns the rights to the phase 5 ppc boards afaik..
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kronos
actually I think you are "wrong" as I never stated Dellert worked for phase 5. I said Dellert is "DCE" and he now owns the rights to the phase 5 ppc boards afaik..
Thats why I wrote this:
>It would have to be Thomas Dellert this is the ahole who owns "DCE" he
>is the guy really responsible for the whole Phase5 going under debacle.
sounded wrong ...
Mr Dellert did buy out all PuP related designs (CS-PPC,BPPC,CV-PPC,BVision and GRex) from the Phase5 bancruptsy and he later mishandled warranty repairs for these cards but I see no evidence he had any hand in bringing Phase5 down.
That was due to Phase5 not keeping their balance-sheet in order while developing HW that either never made it to the market or that didn't sell on the market...
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I find the bigger issues arise when you have a very graphics intensive layout, or try wonky spacing techniques (i.e., my wife - master of the thirty space-bar word shuffle).
Please don't ever subject me to the torture of those Word documents! I'd have an OCD attack! You're supposed to use styles to create your paragraph indentations, so that then everything is in order and lines up perfectly!!! :madashell:
On a serious note, it has been my experience that most Word foibles (including problems converting to/from Word) can be explained by mis-use of styles.
I have found that most general users of Word don't even bother setting up and using the styles at all - they just leave it in the default Normal mode and then apply the formatting then want to it for each and every paragraph/line/word/letter on the screen.
This creates quite a major headache for Word because it's entire format is based on styles. So if you decide to leave the entire document in one style and then apply the specific formatting to it, it has to keep going along and interpreting each specific change as "normal + font + bold + size + indented + number system + this that and the other". And it has to do this for the entire document. If you have a complex document, that's where the strange behaviour will start kicking in.
I suppose you could say this problem would be similar to writing an entire web page using one style and then applying local formatting to each and every word to try and force the page to look like you want it to. Your browser is going to have a fit trying to interpret it. And your job as webmaster is going to be torture when you ever want to change anything.
Sort your styles out, and all your formatting woes will be over.
AH
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I have found that most general users of Word don't even bother setting up and using the styles at all - they just leave it in the default Normal mode and then apply the formatting then want to it for each and every paragraph/line/word/letter on the screen.
Word isn't intiuitive. If the users don't know they even need to setup styles then how are they going to figure it out? Clippy needs to come back and educate the users.
Not that anyone else has done it any better of course. Word processing is a very hard application to get right because you have to apply structure to something that has no structure.
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Yes perhaps I was a little harsh in using the term "most general users don't bother....".
It's probably more accurate to say that most general Word users don't know about the styles or understand their importance in the correct formatting of the document.
If I'm honest, I learned the hard way myself. I had a very complex document with multi-level numbered headings with different formatting for each level, and I was applying this formatting manually all underneath the Normal style.
Eventually the document started mucking about - the formatting was not very stable. I thought it was a bug in Word.
That's when I learned about styles. Very important for complex documents. And, actually, once you've made yourself familiar with them they totally make sense and you'll never go back. It saves you time in the long run too.
AH
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I didn't follow Phase5 at all back in the day, so just picking up on what's in this thread....
and was quoted $200,000 as the lowest starting price for that info.
Mr Dellert did buy out all PuP related designs (CS-PPC,BPPC,CV-PPC,BVision and GRex) from the Phase5 bancruptsy
From these two bits of info I could theorize that the bankruptsy buyout (or debt payoff transfer?) of Phase was worth between $0 and $200K. I'd have to guess that it would be much less than $200K because who would spend that kind of money then be willing sit on the goods until it's value evaporated? Maybe the whole bundle will show up on Ebay one day.
Plaz
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>Dellert did buy out all PuP related designs
Well then that pretty much settles it. Who else could offer the accelerator design for sale?
Could, after this much time, Dellert sue someone for reverse engineering this board?
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who would spend that kind of money then be willing sit on the goods until it's value evaporated?
Again: companies involved with the post C= Amiga seem to wind up hating their customers, and do things (like demanding $200k for a board design, for example) out of pure malice.
Well, I guess GVP gets a pass; they did a run of 060 A2000 cards a couple years back!
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Could, after this much time, Dellert sue someone for reverse engineering this board?
Nothing stops him trying. Succeeding is optional. Different counties, different laws. Also the way it's done is a big factor. AROS kickstart replacment project is an example. PC clones were born by reversing the IBM XT. Clean room technique has been well established.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design
Plaz
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Ok guys here is a couple of notes
1. We do NOT know if this silly 200k number is accurate.. as its romour (pretty strong too)
2. NOBODY is going to be able reverse engineer the phase 5 ppc card, do you even realize how complex it is?
3. Can we now start talking sensibly :)
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Ok guys here is a couple of notes
2. NOBODY is going to be able reverse engineer the phase 5 ppc card, do you even realize how complex it is?
3. Can we now start talking sensibly :)
Agreed, no one is ever going to get the phase5 documentation, and Ralph Schmidt would never give out his source code.
It would be easier to make a new CPU card with a FPGA 68k core and a PPC chip.
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Ok guys here is a couple of notes
1. We do NOT know if this silly 200k number is accurate.. as its romour (pretty strong too)
2. NOBODY is going to be able reverse engineer the phase 5 ppc card, do you even realize how complex it is?
3. Can we now start talking sensibly :)
Why in the world would we want to do that?
Of course I realize how complex it is. That's part of the challenge.
As far as "NOBODY" well that just makes me want to take it on.
First question. Does anyone have a non-functional one. Eventual it will probably be necessary to sacrifice one or two functional cards (an expensive proposition). But to start with, I'd like a broken one.
Next question. Does anyone want to lend a hand with this? Part-time it could take a couple years. Regardless of who works on it, I want to release the information to the general public.
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iggy
What a waste of time, of course nobody is going to help u its silly.
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Agreed, no one is ever going to get the phase5 documentation, and Ralph Schmidt would never give out his source code.
It would be easier to make a new CPU card with a FPGA 68k core and a PPC chip.
We don't need Ralph's help with this.
And I agree that an FPGA 68K core may be an attractive option. As would a different PPC processor (the Phase5 card uses a relatively slow one - a 603e isn't it?)
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We don't need Ralph's help with this.
haha that is awesome.. so you hire nasa engineers and reverse engineer the board, congrats you have a totally useless piece of hw.. without the code that is.
Iggy I see you missed POINT #3 so I will repeat it for ya!
3.Can we please now talk sensibly?
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iggy
What a waste of time, of course nobody is going to help u its silly.
Mag, you're just offering opinions. In time I hope to change those. As I've said before, I used to work for a hardware manufacturer. What you think is impossible is going on every day.
I'm going to go dig up the available support documents.
I'll get back to this thread in a while.
Anyone interested. PM.
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Iggy
Is it an "opinion" that you can hold a balloon and fly to mars?
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Iggy
Is it an "opinion" that you can hold a balloon and fly to mars?
Have you ever helped design anything?
I did. 68030 based motherboards.
This is not rocket science, it dated, relatively primitive electronics.
Comment all you want Magnetic. I'm already pulling in info.
604e not 603e, right?
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Iggy
Ok buddy, you should start taking pre orders too
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While I appreciate the "impossible challenge" just as much as the next person let me understand the reasoning. The end result in such a board is what, to run OS4 correct? If so we already have expensive options for that available now. The only other reason I can think of is to run 3.x PPC software. I didn't try any of these apps when I had my CS-PPC and Blizzard-PPC. Is there some killer app worth all this time and effort that won't run on the currently available options?
I really am just curious, not just trying to start something. It seems like all the work has already been done for some years now.
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Iggy
Ok buddy, you should start taking pre orders too
No, my company actually produced the hardware we offered and we never took advance orders.
Besides, I didn't say I wanted to produce these.
I just want to find out how they were designed.
Difficult, not impossible.
Problem one, though. No new 604e processors. NOS yes. But only the 603e remains in production. Even e300 cored products like the 5200B (used in the Efika) are labeled as "not recommended for new designs".
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We don't need Ralph's help with this.
And I agree that an FPGA 68K core may be an attractive option. As would a different PPC processor (the Phase5 card uses a relatively slow one - a 603e isn't it?)
604e in the Cyberstorm, 603e in the Blizzards.
For a new board:
FPGA for 68K (to boot the system and run OS 3.9)
PPC SoC like the CPU in the SAM 460
RAM on-board
SATA on-board
Video on-board (if you can fit it like Sam 460)
USB and LAN on-board
Basically a computer on a cpu card.
Then i would buy it ;-)
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While I appreciate the "impossible challenge" just as much as the next person let me understand the reasoning. The end result in such a board is what, to run OS4 correct? If so we already have expensive options for that available now. The only other reason I can think of is to run 3.x PPC software. I didn't try any of these apps when I had my CS-PPC and Blizzard-PPC. Is there some killer app worth all this time and effort that won't run on the currently available options?
I really am just curious, not just trying to start something. It seems like all the work has already been done for some years now.
Thanks for the open question, Jeff. Additional scepticism I don't need right now.
Actually, the only point would be to expand original 3000 and 4000 Amigas.
From a practical viewpoint, this would not even require Phase5 compatibility.
The only advantage to PowerUp compatibility would be the ability to run AOS4.1 and MorphOS 1.45 immediately without new ports.
As a current MorphOS user (and someone with an interest in OS4) I can easily see your point. I've been encouraging legacy users to move to NG platforms for years.
This entire exercise is to intended to be practical. Paying over $1000 for a 200Mhz accelerator for your A3000/4000 isn't practical either.
So I looking at options that would slightly increase performance and at least halve the price. About a 400Mhz PPC and 256MB of RAM.
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604e in the Cyberstorm, 603e in the Blizzards.
For a new board:
FPGA for 68K (to boot the system and run OS 3.9)
PPC SoC like the CPU in the SAM 460
RAM on-board
SATA on-board
Video on-board (if you can fit it like Sam 460)
USB and LAN on-board
Basically a computer on a cpu card.
Then i would buy it ;-)
Thanks for the input HammerD.
I like the idea of an SoC too. I already dug out the specs on the 5200B and will look at more capable chips (the only advantage to the 5200B is that its e300 core is 603e compatible).
I'll talk to a few people about the FPGA. This may be the right direction to pursue (but obtaining a '060 compatible core would be the main problem).
Two parallel avenues to explore now. Phase5 PowerUp compatible (but enhanced) and totally new. Let see what makes sense.
BTW - Looking at the size of the processor card your ideas seem possible. Video might have to be an add on (but then it was on the Cyberstorms as well). With an SoC everything else should fit.
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I like the ideas being discussed in this thread. Projects/Products are sometimes born from threads like this, IE Minimig, ect. It would be great to have a board like NatAMI, Minimig, FPGA Arcade, Jens Clone-A, PC with UAE, or ??? with an 060-PPC option board so such a substantial investment in time and money wasn't relying on such old and dying machines. Don't get me wrong, I love my classic machines - they just aren't getting any newer:)
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No, my company actually produced the hardware we offered and we never took advance orders.
Besides, I didn't say I wanted to produce these.
I just want to find out how they were designed.
Difficult, not impossible.
Wow, I didn't know there were electronic engineers with their own company here! :) If you're going to figure how to create a new PPC accelerator for A3000/4000 Amigas, why not produce and sell some? And how about some for the 1200 also?
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Thanks for the input HammerD.
I like the idea of an SoC too. I already dug out the specs on the 5200B and will look at more capable chips (the only advantage to the 5200B is that its e300 core is 603e compatible).
I'll talk to a few people about the FPGA. This may be the right direction to pursue (but obtaining a '060 compatible core would be the main problem).
Two parallel avenues to explore now. Phase5 PowerUp compatible (but enhanced) and totally new. Let see what makes sense.
BTW - Looking at the size of the processor card your ideas seem possible. Video might have to be an add on (but then it was on the Cyberstorms as well). With an SoC everything else should fit.
If it's phase5 compatible it may work with MorphOS powerUP, WarpOS/PowerUP (68k), and AmigaOS 4.1 Classic...
060 in the FPGA is not really required, you could have a minimig cpu core in there...it will probably run pretty fast anyway with the more modern technology around it. (unless the cyberstorm emu needs 060? - edit, I don't think so, since some of them shipped with 040's).
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Thanks again for the input today guys. Both from forum members here and elsewhere.
After examining what documentation I could find I've decided that Magnetic (amongst others) has made some good points.
So I'm NOT going to examine any Phase5 hardware to review the design of the CyberstormPPC. Thomas Dellert can keep his outdated designs.But that doesn't mean I have conceded to defeat in this.
More to follow in the next few days. I promise to sum this up better by Friday.
Goodnight
Jim
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Iggy glad you finally saw the light :) I would hate for you to take on an impossible mission...
many many times have semi serious ppl in the amiga community contempleted a new ppc card. Nobody has done it as its not worth the time and effort by a longshot.
btw why do you have this commdrscot in your sig?
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Iggy glad you finally saw the light :) I would hate for you to take on an impossible mission...
many many times have semi serious ppl in the amiga community contempleted a new ppc card. Nobody has done it as its not worth the time and effort by a longshot.
btw why do you have this commdrscot in your sig?
Because unlike you the man is intelligent & has a sense of humour... ;)
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I would have sold organs (not necessarily my own) for the BlizzardG4 back in the day. If only it had come to pass.
http://www.nutts.demon.co.uk/blizzg3.html (http://www.nutts.demon.co.uk/blizzg3.html)
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I would have sold organs (not necessarily my own) for the BlizzardG4 back in the day. If only it had come to pass.
I've never really looked properly at the PPC chip on my BlizzardPPC board (603) @ 2240Mhz but I've often wondered if it would be possible to replace the PPC chip itself with a faster one or even a 604, any ideas if that is possible... :)
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I've never really looked properly at the PPC chip on my BlizzardPPC board (603) @ 2240Mhz but I've often wondered if it would be possible to replace the PPC chip itself with a faster one or even a 604, any ideas if that is possible... :)
I don't think a 604 is a feasible upgrade due to pin/bus differences but people here have certainly upgraded the onboard 603 for a faster part. I've heard claims that over 300MHz has been achieved. The 750 (G3) *might* be feasible too.
Delshay and Statchu100 would be the people to ask about that.
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I've never really looked properly at the PPC chip on my BlizzardPPC board (603) @ 2240Mhz but I've often wondered if it would be possible to replace the PPC chip itself with a faster one or even a 604, any ideas if that is possible... :)
You can replace the 603 with a faster version - that's been done before and clock speeds >300MHz have been achieved.
However, unfortunately you can't replace the 603 with a 604. I looked into this before, and if I remember correctly the reason you couldn't do it was because the 603 has configurable 64/32 bit bus size (and the Blizzard board is designed around a 32-bit bus size) but the 604 is 64-bit bus size only.
AH
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The 750 (G3) *might* be feasible too.
Delshay and Statchu100 would be the people to ask about that.
Statchu100 tried a G3 and it didn't work. I don't think he made any modifications though, he literally just soldered it in place of the 603 and tested the board. I'm not sure if he ever took it any further than that.
AH
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@ Karlos & AppleHammer
Thanks for the info... :)
I've often noticed Statchu100's stuff on ebay and here and wondered if he had upgraded them himself or it that's the way he bought them, need to have a look through some of his old posts... :)
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As far as I know, the 603e is a BGA package, so with the right equipment, taking it out and putting a faster one in is fairly straightforward (without the right equipment, don't even attempt it). After that, you basically need to change the multipliers and clock crystals accordingly. IIRC, the multipliers are set via a block of four SMD resistors that you'd need to rearrange.
As tempting as it is, I've resisted the urge to fiddle with my BlizzardPPC. They aren't cheap to replace.
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As far as I know, the 603e is a BGA package, so with the right equipment, taking it out and putting a faster one in is fairly straightforward (without the right equipment, don't even attempt it). After that, you basically need to change the multipliers and clock crystals accordingly. IIRC, the multipliers are set via a block of four SMD resistors that you'd need to rearrange.
As tempting as it is, I've resisted the urge to fiddle with my BlizzardPPC. They aren't cheap to replace.
Think you may be right there, it was nerve wracking enough when I had to desolder the edge connector on my BPPC to replace it with a new one... think I might just shelve that idea for now... :)
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Iggy glad you finally saw the light :) I would hate for you to take on an impossible mission...
Well, I still hold that it not impossible. BUT, I often posted here that while you CAN do something SHOULD you?
After I got some information of the amount of programmable logic on the CSPPC, the amount of work needed just looked too massive.
The card needs a re-design. Much of that logic is obsolete and you would probably want to combine it all into one FPGA.
Heck, thanks to the Virtex 5 series you could even incorporate the PPC into the same FPGA (maybe even the 68K core as well).
I'm not adverse to good advice, so I considered what you'd said, Jeff's comments, and a really nasty post from Thomas Dellert that Andreas dug up for me
Using Phase5's original work doesn't make much sense.
many many times have semi serious ppl in the amiga community contempleted a new ppc card. Nobody has done it as its not worth the time and effort by a longshot.
GOOD point. I'm into pain, but THAT much?
btw why do you have this commdrscot in your sig?
For awhile I was convinced Franko just wanted to be a contrary sod, but he has made important points about free speech, the necessity of NOT holding your tongue, and the HIGHLY questionable claim that ANYONE owns the rights to Workbench/AOS.
So William Wallace was right, freedom is most important.
@Karlos - You know what the real pisser is? Thomas Dellert not only would rather burn the Phase5 documentation then release it, but he probably has a G4 design that could be updated more readily then the 604e/603e designs.
I've got every bit as bad an opinion of him as he does of the Amiga community (worse actually). HE blames US for HIS business failures.
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As far as I know, the 603e is a BGA package, so with the right equipment, taking it out and putting a faster one in is fairly straightforward (without the right equipment, don't even attempt it). After that, you basically need to change the multipliers and clock crystals accordingly. IIRC, the multipliers are set via a block of four SMD resistors that you'd need to rearrange.
As tempting as it is, I've resisted the urge to fiddle with my BlizzardPPC. They aren't cheap to replace.
Yes, BGAs can be replaced and there are companies willing to do the work at such a low price that even if I had the equipment I would probably farm out the work.
Statchu100 has played with CSPPC upgrades, but it hardly seems worth it. 333 Mhz for the PPC? You'd hardly notice the difference.
I didn't think a G3 would work as a drop in.
Freescale's 5200B has a compatible (with the 603e) core , but would not work as an upgrade to an existing CSPPC.
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Statchu100 has played with CSPPC upgrades, but it hardly seems worth it. 333 Mhz for the PPC? You'd hardly notice the difference.
It's a 43% clockspeed increase over the fastest CSPPC ever sold by phase5 (233MHz) and a 66% increase over the much more common 200MHz version. Hardly insignificant.
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It's a 43% clockspeed increase over the fastest CSPPC ever sold by phase5 (233MHz) and a 66% increase over the much more common 200MHz version. Hardly insignificant.
I think its relatively insignificant. I remember similar speed differences in the x86 market. You'd never get me to go through that much trouble for those kinds of gains.
Unless you were just doing it for the shits and giggles of it. THEN, it makes sense.
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PM sent Iggy, I'll help. I've no delusions about marketing a card, but like Iggy I love to learn and enjoy a challenge. Silly? Your first "hello" program was silly, but it was a step towards grander things.
As for Nasa engineers... contractors make up the bulk of Nasa projects and I've worked among them. They're not necessarily smarter than many here. They're just really really focused and equally well funded.
Plaz
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It's a 43% clockspeed increase over the fastest CSPPC ever sold by phase5 (233MHz) and a 66% increase over the much more common 200MHz version. Hardly insignificant.
Actually, my other statement was a bit rash.
With the X86 platform I didn't get that much performance boost with parts from above 200Mhz to 400Mhz.
But I bought a 450Mhz K6-III and was quite surprised. I spent a lot of time installing/recommending the cache on processor K6s (K6-III, K6-III+, and K6-2+) to friends and business associates.
The re-assignment of the 2X multiplier to 6X was great for both overclocking and for use in older machines that didn't have a 100Mhz FSB or higher multipliers.
As many came back to me, I had a lot of K6+ sales on Ebay. Almost all shipped to Germany (obviously the land of fanatics who must see how far things can be pushed). Also understandable as AMD had a Fab at Dresden (now owned by Global Foundries).
Due to my obsession with the last Socket7 processors , I was late in moving to later CPU architectures. However, when I bought my first SocketA processor (a low end 600Mhz Duron) I stunned.
At 600Mhz the Duron way outperformed the K6-III/2+ (and it could overclock to as high as 800Mhz).
So the change in design outweighed the pursuit of higher clock speeds.
It was a useful lesson when the P4 was introduced. I dismissed that line from its introduction and eventually gain my vindication.
With a successor to the CSPPC, we need something like what you were looking forward to (the G4) or at least say a 550Mhz 440 core.
And any compatibility will have to be software only. I don't need Thomas Dillert's sore feelings dragged into this.
Take care Karlos.
Jim
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PM sent Iggy, I'll help. I've no delusions about marketing a card, but like Iggy I love to learn and enjoy a challenge. Silly? Your first "hello" program was silly, but it was a step towards grander things.
As for Nasa engineers... contractors make up the bulk of Nasa projects and I've worked among them. They're not necessarily smarter than many here. They're just really really focused and equally well funded.
Plaz
Thanks Plaz.
That brings the total to three, plus a few who are willing to offer advice.
Better then I hoped for.
Going back to studying Virtex-5 FXT literature.
Take care all.
Jim
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As far as I know, the 603e is a BGA package
Most of the PPC cards I've seen have a 603 in BGA package, but a number of years ago I actually had one with a 603 in a standard SMD package.
If you check your BPPC card you'll see that it has a BGA footprint in the centre (which has a 603 soldered onto it) and a standard SMD footprint around the outside. So the card can take both packages.
The old BPPC card I had a number of years ago was the only one I saw that actually had an SMD version of the 603 fitted though.
AH
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One other option not mentioned is what might be partnered or licensed from the Natami project. It wouldn't be PPC, but incorporating their 68050 (and later 68070?) core in to a classic card expansion might be doable since they're going for classic compatibility anyway.
Plaz
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Iggy, thanks for forwarding that old thread from amiga-news.de with Mr. Dellerts reply. I think I recall reading it years ago, but had forgotten. If I'm reading correctly, the mythical $200,000 euro price tag is actually a combination of the developement tools, software, and test equipment that Mr. Dellert feels would likely be needed to re-develope the old card to replace obsolete components. It wasn't necessarily what would be charged for the lot of old documentation. Unfortunately the message gives no indication they we're willing to release the existing documentation even though it was obsolete even in 2005. Mr Dellert also feels that such things are beyond the hobbiest abilities. Of course he hadn't heard of the Minimig or FPG Arcade back in 2005, so we'll let him slide on that one.
Plaz
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Mr Dellert also feels that such things are beyond the hobbiest abilities. Of course he hadn't heard of the Minimig or FPG Arcade back in 2005, so we'll let him slide on that one.
Plaz
Well, the term "hobbyist" implies amateur, but that doesn't have to be the case. It could very well be a professional electronics design Engineer who also likes to work on his own projects in his spare time. The projects he (or she) does in his spare time are his "hobbyist" projects.
AH
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Well, the term "hobbyist" implies amateur, but that doesn't have to be the case. It could very well be a professional electronics design Engineer who also likes to work on his own projects in his spare time. The projects he (or she) does in his spare time are his "hobbyist" projects.
AH
Yeah, I can attest to that. I used to know two guys that used to run a small side operation in PA called L&R Tech. They made hard disk interfaces and serial cards for Tandy Color Computers. But their main business was designing and manufacturing medical monitoring equipment.
Their warehouse/factory had the first reflow solder equipment I ever saw working.
Dellert discounts the idea that some of us have access to that kind of equipment either through work or other ventures.
I used to know a lot of places where work could be contracted out for stuff in the US.
Now, like Mike and his Replay board, a lot of that has moved to China.
But each developed country around the world usually has some small scale manufacturing firms.
Also, if you look at that document, at the time Dellert was still pretty hostile to the Amiga market. I believe he states he'd rather 'burn' the documentation then release it. Then he explains why we're ill-equipped to use it.
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Well, the term "hobbyist" implies amateur, but that doesn't have to be the case. It could very well be a professional electronics design Engineer who also likes to work on his own projects in his spare time. The projects he (or she) does in his spare time are his "hobbyist" projects.
AH
For a good example of a "Hobbyist" that is definitely not an "Amateur", I offer George Braun, who has spent years and thousands of euros on designing and producing mostly one of a kind upgrades for his A1000. I just checked his home webpage again yesterday and found that he has completed a 68060/50MHz to 100MHz accelerator for his GBA1000 motherboard. The only problem with most of his projects is that they are not meant for other hobbyist's to duplicate, as the tools and knowledge to complete them are far above and beyond the capabilities and available tools that most of us mere mortals possess, and he does not produce any of them for sale, or offer any assistance to other people, other than providing the designs and some technical information for downloads. He also created a one-of-a-kind custom design copy of the PicassoII graphics card that fits inside his A1000 and connects to the Zorro slot on the GBA1000 via a 90 degree connector. It has 2mb VRAM and is capable of working with the GBA1000's internal scan doubler. This guy is a genius with spare time and money, but I wish he would work with someone like Jens of Individual Computer's to make his inventions available to others more easily. I wonder if Jens has ever talked to him about such a partnership, not that very many people would be interested in expanding their A1000's like Mr. Braun has, but there are a few of us that still think that the A1000 is the best looking Amiga ever built.
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i'm tempted to sell mine (A4000 complete system):
http://brescia.annuncia.it/Annunci-gratuiti/10-Tecnologia/Computer/135859/Vendo-Amiga-4000-PPC-+-espansioni-varie.html
add to the list
genlock Electrocraft Amiga Pro-Titler APT-91 (very good and rare item)
(italians only or, at least able to play mandolino correctly) :-)
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Its just you. I use my A4000/csppc with mediator daily to do everything from listen to mp3's to handle my web store emails.View pdf's(well most).The mediator gives me 100MB ethernet,SB128 and a 1280x1024x32 workbench.Even tho the browser is old,Ibrowse still works for paying all my credit card bills and with my bank just fine.I print to a color xerox laser with netprinter.device fine.I still like picshow over many picture viewers on most platforms.dvd burning is handled with fryingpan or crazy franko's utilities. using 2-32gb cf's on the UWSCSI chain as hard drives makes it pretty quick and reliable(21MB/s!).Deneb makes using usb anything a breeze.It actually reads pictures in off my sony camera as fast as the 3ghz dell near me.Don't get me wrong,a a bit more speed would always be nice.
I actually get stuff done since i'm not rebooting from updates every 5 minutes
I honestly don't have any need for word documents,so this may be a point of contention to some.
Its costly to do this,but i take good care of my stuff and i have no worries it will bring the price i paid for it easily(i will never sell it...but if i do ;).
Best of all theres virtually no virus trouble ever(i call it security thru obscurity :).
Obviously your results would be half as good on a A1200 which is signifigantly slower with simular expansions because of the bottlenecks and the blizzardppc 32 bit ram addressing and old narrow scsi vs the csppc 64bit memory addressing + UWSCSI and well as mediator bottlenecks..
So when people like you say its not usefull,i just have to think you have a total lack of imagination. You just need to use what works for you and quit obsessing over what it is.
im going to say this for the last time.
Cyberstorm 64bit memory no longer has a advantage over my Blizzard PPC.
if Blizzard PPC cards could take a 604e my Blizzard would be faster than a CyberStorm 233. my Blizzard is faster than a Cyberstorm 200Mhz and has gained another half a sec to close the gap to a Cyberstorm 233.
my PCI/Bvision is already faster than a Cyberstorm PCI/Cybervision.
second fastest Blizzard card in the world.
http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=3417
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im going to say this for the last time.
thanks a lot! :-)
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Blizzard card is moving to another processor,i did have it half working,but if am able to finish and complete this new processor to fully work,the card will operate at 350Mhz+ with 80Mhz+ bus. project to restart late this year as i want to complete Bvision project first as it needs to improve its performance even further.
http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=3404
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Actually not at all "fascinating",i'd say "Sad" If a person has actually lived in the real world, had a real job , a real life, etc etc they would never make a statements like "i've never used a word document file" and to brag about it is even more embarassing
What kind of incredibly foolish statements are those??? Talking about something to be embarrassed about saying, for crying out loud. So, according to you, someone must use M$ Word to have any kind of life, or be anybody. I never thought I'd hear an Amigan sound exactly like a fool Windrone! Even if Franko was bragging about it, so what- good for him, as he knows he's not a Windrone and doesn't get sucked in by Micro$loth.
Firstly, M$ Word is NOT A STANDARD, it's a Windoze specific proprietary app. For something to be a REAL standard, it should be multi-platform and freely distributable/usable, like PDF. Now there's a document standard format. Secondly, I've used old versions of Word/Wordpad, and I do not save files in its format. I choose RTF for formatting or otherwise ASCII. At least those can also be considered some kind of standard formats. I don't know how many times ppl have annoyed me sending things in Word format, and have to explain to them it's not a cross-platform standard format. I don't care if 95% of the freaking world uses Winblows these days, it's still an OS specific proprietary format, and not a standard.
How can you be enlightened enough to have any appreciation for Amiga, yet still say things so stupid?
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here is a screenshot to prove Cyberstorm PPC 64bit memory does not have a advantage over my Blizzard PPC card. my Blizzard card memory is infact faster.
http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=3526
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im going to say this for the last time.
Cyberstorm 64bit memory no longer has a advantage over my Blizzard PPC.
if Blizzard PPC cards could take a 604e my Blizzard would be faster than a CyberStorm 233. my Blizzard is faster than a Cyberstorm 200Mhz and has gained another half a sec to close the gap to a Cyberstorm 233.
my PCI/Bvision is already faster than a Cyberstorm PCI/Cybervision.
second fastest Blizzard card in the world.
http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=3417
Regarding your blizzard...nearly as fast as my 366MHz Cyberstorm PPC....VERY nice work!!! I can't wait to see what you will come up with next :) 40ns? :-)
note: gfx is Radeon 9250 on a Mediator...thus the lame video speeds vs. BlizzardVision PPC gfx.
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Regarding your blizzard...nearly as fast as my 366MHz Cyberstorm PPC....VERY nice work!!! I can't wait to see what you will come up with next :) 40ns? :-)
note: gfx is Radeon 9250 on a Mediator...thus the lame video speeds vs. BlizzardVision PPC gfx.
Whoah, y'all have got the battle of the fastest classic Amiga hardware in the world going on! Geez, those are some sweet ass accelerators... around HALF the speed of this Pentium 3 I'm on! Yikes! If y'all were going to sell your accelerators, I'm guessing the price would be at least $5,000 each??!
I want to do a Mediator upgrade on my A1200, but I don't have a PPC :(. I've noticed that no one is mentioning what I read about on the Elbox site, of using a PC accelerator with the Mediator. That is supposed to be possible too, isn't it? Then y'all could be talking about processor speeds of 2-3 GHz at least!
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Blizzard PPC card will become the fastest classic card,i think i also said this in another thread but i don't like repeating myself,anyway its just a matter of time.
i have a desktop A1200 so im stuck with a bvision (enhanced) 250Mhz Ramdac,125Mhz memory (Beta) modifiyed driver OS3.9.
need information to test this under OS4.1
what most user enjoy playing PPC games with 640x480 16bit, i enjoy 800x600 16bit with the same or better performance.
i dont need to use a screenmode lower than 800x600..workbench 1024x768 24Bit or 32bit depending on OS used.
there are no errors in my system other than below. ie there's no lock-ups crashs ect all fixed.
OUTSTANDING ISSUES: as above get Bvison out of Beta from it's 125Mhz memory.