Frustrated SAM460 owner

[Hans_]

THE MOST IMPORTANT UPDATE in OS4.x land is much awaited by all users and I understand the bohemoth task by Hans but also understand the frustration from fellow OS4.x users like AmigaSteve.

Yes, it is frustrating, and I'm sorry that it has taken so long. Just to avoid confusion, I'm not the Hans that's working on the Warp3D driver. I did provide some assistance and example code, though.

There is one thing, I just can't understand!

A majority (vast?),  among my Amiga friends uses "R700" (HD4000 series) Radeon cards in their  Sam 460:s. But A-EON seems to neglect us, focusing on the high-end  range of cards only. Strange...

When there's limited resources available and you can't do everything, then sometimes difficult decisions need to be made. I personally think that focusing on the 5xxx/6xxx series was the right decision. They had to choose one GPU series, and it would be unrealistic to expect Amiga dealers to scrounge around on ebay for supported cards to deliver to their customers.

Just one nitpicky correction though, the 5xxx/6xxx series are not higher-end than the 4xxx series; they are just newer generations. Granted, the high-end of each generation tends to be faster than the last. However, each series has both low and high-end cards. For example, my Radeon HD 4850 is a high-end card, and totally leaves my 5450 choking on its dust in any performance test. In fact, even my 4650 (a mid-range card) is faster than the 5450.

Hans

[Hans_]

@BSzili

The discussion was about providing support for the existing userbase with Radeon HD 4000 cards, and not about dealers offering HD 4000 cards.

In order to understand why things are the way they are it's necessary to take the blinders off and look at the wider picture.

@Duce

Would I be ticked off if I bought a prebuilt OS4 machine with a 4000 series card in it, only to find out that I'm not going to ever get proper drivers for it?  Yes, I sure would be.

I would ask why vendors ever sold the things with those cards in the machines to begin with, and I'd never do business with them again.

Back then, the 4xxx series was the only one supported. It was never the intention to not support the 4xxx series. AMD's pace of obsolescence is relentless, and that basically forced us to upgrade to the 5xxx+ series earlier than I had hoped.

For the record, Gallium3D should bring full 3D support for the 4xxx series. It's just that the 5xxx/6xxx Warp3D drivers will come sooner.

Was full 3d support ever promised for the 4000 series cards?  If so, I hope those that bought such rigs with 4.1 get some sort of free upgrade to 4.2 where the hardware they purchased with the machines is actually fully supported.

It's no secret that modern OpenGL 2+ was the goal for these cards. However, nobody was promised 3D support for free.

Hans

[Hans_]

Can someone technically oriented (regarding drivers) explain the difference regarding Warp3D vs Gallium3D?

So that I'll know if an upgrade to a 5000 series card is needed...

Warp3D is an old 3D API designed for AmigaOS way back in the late nineties. Given its age, it doesn't support modern graphics card features like programmable shaders. In fact, it doesn't even support hardware accelerated Transformation Clipping & Lighting (TCL). Combined with MiniGL it supports a subset of OpenGL up to about version 1.5 of the OpenGL specification. On the upside, it does work and is available for AmigaOS now (although the Evergreen driver for Radeon HD 5xxx/6xxx cards is yet to be released).

Gallium3D is a new modern framework for writing graphics drivers. It's designed to sit between the hardware and any 2D or 3D API (so, OpenGL, Direct2D/3D, etc.). Gallium3D's design is completely based around the modern GPU and its programmable shaders. Combined with MESA, it supports up to OpenGL 3.3 (depending on the driver). It really is a quantum leap ahead of Warp3D. Delivering modern OpenGL was the main reason why I started working on the 2D Radeon HD in the first place. Gallium3D's downside is that it is set for release in AmigaOS 4.2, and I cannot say when that will be.

So, your dilemma is, upgrade to a 5xxx/6xxx card for Warp3D, or wait until AmigaOS 4.2. Either way, you should probably wait until the Warp3D driver is actually released before deciding whether to buy a newer card or not.

Hans

[Hans_]

were they not? i thought they were?

Okay, I'm not 100% sure about that. A1-X1000 first contact customers may have been promised a free upgrade, but I can't find any announcement to back that up. I don't remember ACube ever promising anything, though.

Hans