Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Hardware News => Topic started by: IOWASURFER on December 07, 2007, 07:49:50 PM
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A Scan doubler for the little man!
Please let it be known if you would like a scan doubler and if its worth making a bunch of them for the community...
I have been working with a engineer who has been creating
a scan doubler which I just tested the prototype last night.
(http://diepart.com/amiga/wb1.jpg)
The 2.0 Screen...Mmmm Purple..
I asked him to please make a scan doubler for the
AMIGA community like he has done for the ATARI community...
The 1.3 screen classic Amiga all the way.. (http://diepart.com/amiga/wb2.jpg)
An Amiga 1200 and the scan doubler... Running Work bench 3.1 (http://diepart.com/amiga/wb3.jpg)
This Scan doubler has the potential of working with almost all of the classic Amiga's 500/600/1000/1200/2000/3000/4000 etc and it's way affordable.
If things work out with this unit I am testing then the units will be
available for AMIGANS soon after all testing and a few very minor bugs are squashed.
The scan doubler on a Amiga 1000 for size comparison. (http://diepart.com/amiga/sys3.jpg)
The Scan doubler inside guts... (http://diepart.com/amiga/sys4.jpg)
Shown running 2.0 Work Bench... (http://diepart.com/amiga/sys1.jpg)
Please support this new product by posting here if you could use one.
Initial costs are to be determined but I see them way under $100$ and
as you can see by the 3 AMIGA systems I already tested this new scan
doubler on look great with a VGA flat screen monitor initial reactions are good this will be a awesome add on to any serious
Amiga collector/hobbyist who wants to run vga...
[url=http://diepart.com/amiga/w2.jpg]
Amiga 500 Running Wings...Looks great on a Lcd flat screen (http://diepart.com/amiga/w1.jpg
Amiga 500 Running Wings...[/url)
Amiga 500 Running Wings... Love this game.. (http://diepart.com/amiga/w3.jpg)
And heck who doesn't want to run on a regular monitor?
Here is Desert Strike screen shots... running
Here is Desert Strike screen shots...1 (http://diepart.com/amiga/ds1.jpg)
Here is Desert Strike screen shots...2 (http://diepart.com/amiga/ds3.jpg)
Here is Desert Strike screen shots...3 (http://diepart.com/amiga/ds5.jpg)
Here is Desert Strike screen shots...4 (http://diepart.com/amiga/ds6.jpg)
Joe Leto
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Looking good man. thanks for going through all this trouble. I'll buy one when their available.
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all new monitors today dont sync down to 15hz, so is this going to make the amiga go in 60hz mode?? as this is the standard these days...
another thing to consider is if the scan doubler sync in to the standard lcd monitor resolution, this can vary from lcd to lcd it depends on if its 17" or 19" etc... if not we will get blury,fuzzy and bleak colors, and not crystal clear with good colors where we can see the pixels...
alot of things have changed since the 90's when the scan doublers where new, i hope this is an upgraded version that are uptodate with todays standards. if not and it is just another remake of the old scan doublers then its just not usable anymore and it is not worth buying. your then better of getting an old commodore monitor..
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Great work!
Put me down for one! Or two...
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if it's in the 60 euros range, I definately want one, great job! btw, is it 16 or 24 bit?
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Interested!!! Very much!!
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Will definitely buy one, I can't have more monitors on my desk when I fix a miggy, this will be just perfect!
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I'd be interested in one of these as well if they're under $100. It would be great not to be dependant upon my old Commodore monitors for playing old games and demos.
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This day and age Scan Doublers are a must for classic Amiga systems. I say, go for it, and have them created for the Amiga community. :-D
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another thing to consider is if the scan doubler sync in to the standard lcd monitor resolution, this can vary from lcd to lcd it depends on if its 17" or 19" etc... if not we will get blury,fuzzy and bleak colors, and not crystal clear with good colors where we can see the pixels...
Personally, I'd couldn't care less about this. I'd be more than happy to have as CHEAP a scandoubler as possible and be limited to CRTs or certain LCDs. What I don't want is an "UberScanDoubler3000MAX" that gives perfect picture quality on anything imaginable but will require me to re-mortgage my house in order to buy it.
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Hi,
Is this an Internal/External model, I would be interested in an external one.
Yours Flash :rtfm:
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I would also be interested in an affordable scan doubler.
I don't have my a1200 or a500 hooked up very often because I have to drag them out to the TV.
A monitor is a heavy thing and usually shipping becomes pretty steep. So I haven't purchased one from Ebay.
Go for it!
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Scan doublers are great tools, but one should also mention there are LCD TV monitors (many in typical desktop monitor sizes) with RGB inputs--I've seen D-sub, SCART, and BNC--available in most parts of the world, icluding the US.
The deinterlacers built into digital sets do a nice job with the composite signal as well.
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Fantastic work - I'd love one if the price point was around $100/£50 mark.
To be honest, I'm not really interested whether it's 24-bit or only 16-bit - if it enables me to use my 19" TFT to play my classic games on my Amigas, then I'd be very happy.
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This is a 16 bit unit so its a step in the right direction for now..
Joe...
Well I cut the resolution on the prototype down to 12 bits to test it there first.
I also added noise filters on the input of the prototype
which may contribute to test.
Tell everybody that the resolution will be 16 bit in the future.
Roy
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I'd buy at least one.
Perhaps as many as three or four, depending on price.
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Depending on price i'll get one for A1200, A2000, A4000 and maybe a A500 or 2.... :-D
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Sounds great. I'll buy one too when it's ready.
Many thanks for the effort.
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Sounds great, let me know when they become available.
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ill buy one if it becomes available
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I am intrested in a SCAN DOUBLER depending upon the price.
:-)
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Yep me too. Keep us updated on the price and availability.
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For less than 100$ ... Seems great! (Will it work with a wide LCD 19'?)
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@IOWASURFER
I hope that you test it with both NTSC & PAL? Also the Amiga supports some funny screen modes, and it'd be nice if some of those were supported too I imagine.
But as someone commented, scan doublers always USED to cost the Earth, so cheapness (as long as it basically works) is probably an important aim. Probably best to state whether 640x480/512 looks fuzzy or not, or even works at all.
P.S. I am not interested in this personally, but hope the above might be helpful.
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Joe,
Count me in on your list for the Amiga scan doubler. I have spoke with our scan doubler engineer back when you first announced your findings, and he placed me on a waiting list for the Atari version of his scan doubler. Awesome job by you Joe to have found this individual, and we owe you a debt of gratitude. Thanks a lot.
Mike
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I was going to buy one until I found out that this thing is missing 16,711,680 colors! *gasp*
I am sorry, but if it has lost over 16 million of my beloved Amiga's colors then I am not interested at all. I want my Amiga to look better, not worse.
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Great work i considder 2 :-D
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Interesting.. Will it work, or can it be modified to work with RGBi? My interest is in the 128's 80 column mode. Has it been tested with interlace modes on LCD monitors? What is the target price?
Nice project, may not be for me but nice.
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Ya know redrum, I still have that scandoubler I built for you sitting around here somewhere. Still ticked off at how hard it was getting the parts for it.
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Hell yeah! I´m, definately in!
(Meaning I'll even pay in advance/preorder one. Even up to 100$)
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Ok. When it come, i need 2!!! 8-)
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I'm also interested for 1 or 2 scandoublers if it works with a PAL Amiga (depends on the price).
Thx for all !
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Great job!!! I'll buy one when their available.
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I'll buy 1 when available.
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I might be interested in one after teh New Year as well. Well done getting something like this sorted out the price of scan doublers has become as insane as the PPC cards lately!
Andy
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Great Work!!
I buy one, when you have one ready :-D
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I'd order one if the quality was good.
Its my understanding that a "flicker fixer" is not needed on an LCD monitor... correct?
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Sounds like you have a winner on your hands!!! Lemme know when it's available, I'd love to get one.
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Looking good.
I'll definitely be up for one.
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Very good news
I need 3 for my 3 amigas.
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Good job :-)
I think I'll buy one ;-)
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alexh would probably say it can't be done
but go ahead and put me down for one. :-)
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Ya know redrum, I still have that scandoubler I built for you sitting around here somewhere. Still ticked off at how hard it was getting the parts for it.
If you have it, I'd like to see it. I'm in Boca Raton now, should be close to you. How well did it work? Email me, my email address is the same.
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Didn't work well sad to say, and can't make it anymore due to part supplys. I'm in Tampa now, but should be back in the area for the holidays.
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Hello there
I'm a french Amiga user, and ready to buy this dream item as soon as possible
Bravo
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alexh would probably say it can't be done
alexh would probably say it's no good for AGA, and he's 100% correct. I've witnessed the color loss first hand on a number of 6bpp LCD panels, and it's a pretty profound effect.
Definitely a nice sounding product and fine for OCS/ECS though. (AGA too if you're not picky about the color loss.)
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i interested . is great projekt .
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i am also interested if <100$
thakns for the support to the amiga comunity too!
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I would buy one. And depending on the price I might buy several so I wouldn't have to swap amigas all the time.
Maybe some of us would be interested in a switch for multiple inputs?
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Look nice 8-)
I'll need one
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@ChaosLord
Quote:
I was going to buy one until I found out that this thing is missing 16,711,680 colors! *gasp*
I am sorry, but if it has lost over 16 million of my beloved Amiga's colors then I am not interested at all. I want my Amiga to look better, not worse.
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Your Amiga or anyones Amiga does not Output 16 Million Colors..............so why do you need them?
If your Amiga is outputting 16 Million colors...........then it means you have a Gfx card............if you have a Gfx Card then it measn you have VGA Out and your signal is already ScanDoubled.
However..I do agree that it should be 24 or 32 bit Scan Doubler.
WHy one may ask? well because if I for instance want to connect my DCTV through it or an ImpactVision 24 which outputs 16 Million colors....then I dont have to worry. We should never DownGrade...........always leave room for as much FutureProof-ability as possible.
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Dependent on the price I will definitely buy at least one.
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Does it work with the Video Toaster 4000?
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Yeah, I would buy one.
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@Leirbag
All AGA Amigas use colors #0 to #16777215
This flickerfixer only has colors #0 to #65535.
All great AGA action games use color numbers beyond 65535. Colors outside the 16-bit range get changed into an incorrect color. This totally ruins those smooth gradient copper backgrounds that most platform games use. etc.
This 16-bit flickerfixer is only suitable for OCS/ECS Amigas. Not AGA.
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Looking good man! If we could find way to ship to Serbia, i would maybe take 2! :-D
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@ChaosLad
That is odd, since there is only analog outputs from the RGB port....
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Sign me up for one!
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Me as well. Need a new monitor for my aging Toaster/flyer system.
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Me too! I badly need one!!!
What about PAL support?
any approx. release date yet?
price doesn't really matter! :-D
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Looks like this topic alone brought a few new members in!
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Yes, I would say this is a very important piece of hardware and depending on price i'll buy 2-6 of them. Any ETA on them yet?
:banana: :banana: :banana: :bow: :bow: :cheers:
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Yeah Maen! Definetly will buy one or tow. Right On Dude! :-D
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I definitly want one! If costs about 50€ perhaps I take two!
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I woud love one. What area of the world are you in? (USA here). Thanks!
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I'm cashed up and ready to take 2 as soon as they enter production.
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I'd buy one. How many machines has it been tested on? I'd like one for an A4000.
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Great Stuff! I´m in for one, send me a PM or an email on kjartan at liksom dot no! I have an A1200!
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I would be in for at least one, perhaps two depending on if I decide to run the A4000 along with my A1200T.
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How are things coming along?
Testing getting results?
Also have you got a appox of the price yet please?
Thanks.
:-D want to buy before the wife gets her hands on my cash... :lol:
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Has Roy agreed a price yet?
He was selling them for $48 including PSU but that was before the dollar lost half of it's value.
@Downix
ChaosLord is right, these Averlogic 16-bit scandoubler combinations will "clip" AGA colour from 8:8:8 to 5:6:5, but so do half of the existing Amiga scandoublers. There are very few AGA / 24-bit scandoublers.
As for RGB being analog, you are correct, but it is converted back to digital before scandoubling and then back again, another lossy part of the process inherent with all external scandoublers.
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Hi, this looks great!
If it comes true and the price is really under 100$ I will definitely order 2 of them!
Greetings and good luck!
Amix
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I'd buy one of these if it supported AGA and if someone can confirm that a flicker fixer isn't needed on an LCD monitor.
Thanks.
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Any News yet mate?
How is the testing going?
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Put me down for one too!
Blew up two 1084s monitors that had been in storage so I'm currently reduced to using a TV for my 1200 :-(
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I asked from my A500 is she wants to get new monitor she sayed yes :) so count me also...if paying is accept via Visa
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Nice job:-D :-D
I'd like two scandoublers..
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>>>Poster: alexh Posted: 2007/12/19 1:38:47
Has Roy agreed a price yet?
He was selling them for $48 including PSU but that was before the dollar lost half of it's value.
@Downix
ChaosLord is right, these Averlogic 16-bit scandoubler combinations will "clip" AGA colour from 8:8:8 to 5:6:5, but so do half of the existing Amiga scandoublers. There are very few AGA / 24-bit scandoublers.
As for RGB being analog, you are correct, but it is converted back to digital before scandoubling and then back again, another lossy part of the process inherent with all external scandoublers.<<<
@alexh,
Is the scandoubler on the PicassoIV one of the few that works correctly on AGA Amigas? Can you list the scandoublers that you know work with AGA?
@thread & original poster/beta tester
What is the progress of this project? Is there a projected availability/release date yet and what is the final cost going to be? I am interested in getting between 2 and 6 of these devices.
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Yes - put me down for two of them A1200 and A4000.
Ernie
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@Nlandas
These also flicker fix, they do work with AGA but they clip the colours as already said.
@amigadave
Picasso IV, ARXON (compu serve) scandoubler / scandoubler II, Petsoff dblscan and the homebrew A2320 AGA. These are the only 24-bit scandoublers that I know of.
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Put me down for one too! Please!
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Same here.
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Hi mate,
How is the progress? Any news?
I think by the reaction of this thread your going to have quite a few orders.
Please let us know how the testing is going and when they will become available and for how much.
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G'Day,
As I like to always get a spare, I'll sign up for one, ahem, two just in case. Looks like good design and components. It will be much smaller when it's done I'm sure.
Chris
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I want one too :-D
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I want one but 60 euros or less is reasonable :-)
BTW hello to everybody!,I'm new here :-P
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This is what i have been waiting for since i got my Amiga :-)
For 60 euro i would buy 2 of these.
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good man I'll buy one when their available
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Any idea when it will be for sale?
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I would definitely buy at least one. Two if they're close to a hundred dollars
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I wonder how things are going? havent heard from IOWASURFER since early dec 07.
Anyone got any news?
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Roy, the guy building the scandoubler, has updated the news thread on aw.net here (http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4097&start=40#57171). He said he can't register here for some reason, and asked someone to update the community here on amiga.org.
In that post he says:
Hello All,
Sorry I haven't posted in awhile. I was busy with the design
of the converter. I had a hard time getting the broadband
noise out of the unit that is inherent with the conversion
process. I am almost ready to take orders. I am saving
up some startup money for the project budget. Once it
gets going it will be self sustaining.
The price will be $65 USD not including shipping.
Shipping will be $5 inside the continental USA and
$12 to $15 overseas.
I am going to limit everyone to one unit initially but
when I service everyone I will start to take multiple
orders for the unit. This will give you time to decide
if you really want more than one based on how well
you like the unit you have.
If anybody is dissatisfied with my product I will refund
your money plus the cost of return shipping.
I will let everyone know here when I start to actually
take orders. I have already sent Joe the first unit and
we should hear from him about it.
I have tried to post the the Amiga.org site to let those
folks know what is going on but I can't get registered for
some reason. I would appreciate it if someone here who
is registered there would let them know.
Roy
Hoping not to commit a cross-forums faux pas, but I made a summary of "features" on aw.net here (http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4097&start=40#56443)
Have at it!
tiffers
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Is there a reservation topic for one of these?
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Pretty cool! I think I will pick one up for my A500 and A600, time to dust off the Trinitron. Brand new, and shipping $5 CONUS?? Nice!
To the choad-bag on the forum who tried to gyp me for some broken old ICD POS, here's to ya!!! :pint:
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Very very interesting piece of arte. I want one for my A1200. :-D