Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: cpaek72 on July 19, 2017, 10:52:48 PM
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Ok, so I spent the last few days looking up on the internet how to do basic things in os4.1 FE and this is what I've set up so far.
To my surprise, the computer is absolutely amazing. My main purpose of this was to avoid the habbit of collecting a bunch of vintage machines(I own a 2000, 500 and 1200) and enjoy a bunch of games I played as a kid and not bother with setting up complicated emulators and conflicts when it comes to chipsets, kickstart versions etc. Basically, this machine has exceeded my expectations. Once I got past the crazy monitor issue, everything else went relatively smoothly for a os4 noob. Everything plays great and all my classic software just runs without any issues. People will argue you can do the same thing in windows, but it just misses the feel of running a real amiga like os4. There is no interface to run the emulator - it runs invisible behind the scenes and all the folders look like classic Amiga where all you have to do is click the icon and it just runs.
I purchased a Sapphire r9 270x from Amiga On The Lake and it works flawlessly. By the way Aaron from AOTL is insanely curtious and very helpful. He called me on his cell phone to trouble shoot the original monitor issue I had and he couldn't have given me more confidence to shop with him in the future.
The computer was assembled by Amigakit and it came to me in perfect packaging and condition. The guys there take their time and with the build and it shows.
I also own a 16core HP z840 and Titan X, so the Amiga is definitely a computer that reminds me of when computers were still fun and not perfect. You spend hours trying to figure things out, but that's the charm of it. I haven't had so much fun reading articles about how to's since the the 80's and 90's as a child.
If anyone is on the fence about the x5000, I would whole heartedly recommend a buy. A-Eon, Hyperion, AOTL, Amigakit have all pulled off the impossible in my eyes.
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Waiting for your commercial.... or is this it ?
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Can't tell if you're being snarky or actually curious about the commercial. Here are pics from the set of the commercial. Currently in post, which includes editorial.
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Cool set! :hammer:
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Can't tell if you're being snarky or actually curious about the commercial. Here are pics from the set of the commercial. Currently in post, which includes editorial.
I lover the server racks as bookends! :)
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Ok, so I spent the last few days looking up on the internet how to do basic things in os4.1 FE and this is what I've set up so far.
To my surprise, the computer is absolutely amazing. My main purpose of this was to avoid the habbit of collecting a bunch of vintage machines(I own a 2000, 500 and 1200) and enjoy a bunch of games I played as a kid and not bother with setting up complicated emulators and conflicts when it comes to chipsets, kickstart versions etc. Basically, this machine has exceeded my expectations. Once I got past the crazy monitor issue, everything else went relatively smoothly for a os4 noob. Everything plays great and all my classic software just runs without any issues. People will argue you can do the same thing in windows, but it just misses the feel of running a real amiga like os4. There is no interface to run the emulator - it runs invisible behind the scenes and all the folders look like classic Amiga where all you have to do is click the icon and it just runs.
I purchased a Sapphire r9 270x from Amiga On The Lake and it works flawlessly. By the way Aaron from AOTL is insanely curtious and very helpful. He called me on his cell phone to trouble shoot the original monitor issue I had and he couldn't have given me more confidence to shop with him in the future.
The computer was assembled by Amigakit and it came to me in perfect packaging and condition. The guys there take their time and with the build and it shows.
I also own a 16core HP z840 and Titan X, so the Amiga is definitely a computer that reminds me of when computers were still fun and not perfect. You spend hours trying to figure things out, but that's the charm of it. I haven't had so much fun reading articles about how to's since the the 80's and 90's as a child.
If anyone is on the fence about the x5000, I would whole heartedly recommend a buy. A-Eon, Hyperion, AOTL, Amigakit have all pulled off the impossible in my eyes.
I was on the fence, but might just take the plunge. It's only money.. Thanks for the review!
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@cpaek72
great to see yet another X5000 user on the forum! :)
-- eliyahu
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The X5000 is an amazing machine, I for one am happy that i took the plunge and bought one too, i certainly haven't had this much fun with a computer since i got my original A1200 back in the 1990's.
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Finally got AvP, Quake2 and RTCW to work. If anyone wants to avoid the research I did, the Warp 3D drivers in the enhancer pack are not compatible with these games. Download Warp 3D from the Amistore and it all works now.
Basically everthing is working and really loving the verstality of the machine.
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Basically everthing is working and really loving the verstality of the machine.[/QUOTE]
Versatile is one good adjective to describe it :-) If you haven't already I would try and download the FPSE Sony Playstation 1 Emulator which works really well on the X5000, was having a good play of Soul Blade and Grand Turismo last night.
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Had to post this last photo tonight of this great wallpaper I found. And I downloaded the playstation emulator - will try out tomorrow. The snes emulator works great as well.
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So going to bite. Everybody seems to spend all this money and then just run emulators and ports of old games.
What does it give you , say over my 27inch 5k iMac ? which probably cost less
Edit: Not trying to sound like a troll, I am genuinely curious
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I do plenty on my X5000 I surf the web, I watch videos on it I play music, I play a whole host of classic and recent OS4.1 releases, yes I play stuff on at least 30 emulated systems and computers, I write and publish my blog on the X5000,. I use it for word-processing and other office tasks and yes it even dual boots into Linux.. I'd quite like to try out MorphOS on it but it all seems to have gone very quiet over there with no one able to answer why we are still waiting for the X5000 version to come out....
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So going to bite. Everybody seems to spend all this money and then just run emulators and ports of old games.
What does it give you , say over my 27inch 5k iMac ? which probably cost less
Edit: Not trying to sound like a troll, I am genuinely curious
Hmm, from the iMac's specs, I'd say less cores, and it will run PPC software without an emulator.
Other than that, they are both high priced machines that appeal to a select audience.
What I'm not sure of is what your iMac has to offer over my low end Ryzen based system with a similar video card and a freesync monitor, except a much higher cost (and that all-in-one, but its very hard to upgrade, packaging).
Now if either system beat your children for you (like a Welshman :hammer:), then maybe they'd be worth the money. And that IS a troll comment (but just for fun).
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@iggy
You are forgetting with any Mac you get automatic lifetime membership of the Cupertino Cult which is akin to the Church of Scientology, its practically impossible to leave this cult so I'm told as everything is wonderful and glorious according to its creepy head recruiters who work at branches of Apple stores worldwide.....
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What does it give you , say over my 27inch 5k iMac ?
Not having to look at the Crapple logo on a box sitting on your desk? :lol:
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I had the same questions before I dove in. For me it was the OS. If you look at the x5000 as a general computer for everyday use then it's going to lose to every option you put against it, but when I started thinking of it as my main Amiga computer that can play all of my classic software flawlessly that's when the paradigm shifted for me. When you really play with OS4 in the ppc environment and not an emulated one, you get that nostalgia back in a huge way. Maybe that's what it ultimately is. Look at it as having the best Amiga computer today and not the best computer.
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@cpaek72
Totally agree :-)
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If you look at the x5000 as a general computer for everyday use then it's going to lose to every option you put against it....
Not necessarily when you compare it to a legacy Amiga. An AmigaOne is a much more practical daily use computer.
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My dual powermac g5 2.5 ghz running morphos make the x5000 eat dirt and cost me 50 usd
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My dual powermac g5 2.5 ghz running morphos make the x5000 eat dirt and cost me 50 usd
Got you beat on that one.
My Dual 2.7 GHz G5 cost my $20 for shipping and the seller let me have it for $10 because no one bid against me (it happens on eBay some times).
BUT, the X5000 can run better video cards than either of our systems.
AND it will run OS4 (along with MorphOS, when that port is done).
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@ cpaek72 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=10026)
enjoy & congrats on your new X5000 !
Not having to look at the Crapple logo on a box sitting on your desk? :lol:
no joke and + 1,000,000 to the power of infinity:hammer: no crapple products allowed in my house
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I had the same questions before I dove in. For me it was the OS. If you look at the x5000 as a general computer for everyday use then it's going to lose to every option you put against it, but when I started thinking of it as my main Amiga computer that can play all of my classic software flawlessly that's when the paradigm shifted for me. When you really play with OS4 in the ppc environment and not an emulated one, you get that nostalgia back in a huge way. Maybe that's what it ultimately is. Look at it as having the best Amiga computer today and not the best computer.
No need to defend yourself here on Amiga dot bloody org! It's not Apple.org here (it does not even exist, they only think .commercial)
You got a damn well nice equipment :D
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@cpaek72
Glad to see another happy X5K user on board. It's not perfect but it sure is fun to use. Another fun app is Celestia on OS4 Depot. Besure to check out the "demo" mode by pressing "d' when it is started. I would also recommend checking out SketchBlock, fantastic native software.
Cheers!
Bill "tekmage" Borsari
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Ok, so I spent the last few days looking up on the internet how to do basic things in os4.1 FE and this is what I've set up so far.
The non-black keyboard looks like an 500 or 1200 keyboard, but without the A keys. What brand /model is that?
Thanks
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Got you beat on that one.
My Dual 2.7 GHz G5 cost my $20 for shipping and the seller let me have it for $10 because no one bid against me (it happens on eBay some times).
BUT, the X5000 can run better video cards than either of our systems.
AND it will run OS4 (along with MorphOS, when that port is done).
My dual 2.5 was also $25, lol... I picked it up from someone in LA on my way to work one day when I say it on craigslist.
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My dual 2.5 was also $25, lol... I picked it up from someone in LA on my way to work one day when I say it on craigslist.
I tried to purchase a Mac Mini G4 to try out MorphOS but all I got were people wanting to sell their old Intel Macs. Seems PPC Macs are really hard to find in Sweden.
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This thread has me wanting an X5000. I'm typign this on my SAM440ep-Flex, and I intend to go for a Tabor when it lands, but an X5000 would be something else.
It is a shame that the Xena co-processor is not utilized by software (at all?) so far. Are there programming APIs for accessing the device, or is it a matter of going directly to the hardware. (Wondering if that's why there's not any, say, Mandelbrot generators for the thing.)
As re: MorhpOS on Macs, many disagree I am aware, but there seems to be something said for supporting the core "Amiga" OS vs. derivatives. More support, more potential for future developments, less fracturing. But, of course, just my opinion.
bp
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... re: MorhpOS on Macs, many disagree I am aware, but there seems to be something said for supporting the core "Amiga" OS vs. derivatives. More support, more potential for future developments, less fracturing. But, of course, just my opinion.
bp
Yep, its just your opinion.
I have no problem supporting any OS I use, and might at one point adopt OS4, but I'm really glad there are alternatives.
And if an alternative OS like MorphOS or Linux sells some X5000 systems, is that somehow bad for the community?
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I think the fact that it can boot into Linux and hopefully MorphOS later down the line is a good selling point for the X5000. Which reminds me I might have a go at installing Linux on to a spare hard disk at some point this weekend, had a quick go last weekend but ran into a few issues. It boots great from the boot menu via a usb 64gb flash drive btw
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I ordered mine on the 5th of July, and am still waiting from AmigaOnTheLake. Hopefully this week it'll ship if I'm lucky?
So to answer.. why would any one want to spend that much money since you can buy a G5 for a few bucks? No real reason. I like playing with hardware. I have a MorphOS box. I have a 4000T. I have most Amigas that came out. It seems like something fun to play with, plus I sold a bunch of junk in my attic to afford it - that's a win win. I clean up my crap, and I get an Amiga for it :)
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I ordered mine on the 5th of July, and am still waiting from AmigaOnTheLake. Hopefully this week it'll ship if I'm lucky?
So to answer.. why would any one want to spend that much money since you can buy a G5 for a few bucks? No real reason. I like playing with hardware. I have a MorphOS box. I have a 4000T. I have most Amigas that came out. It seems like something fun to play with, plus I sold a bunch of junk in my attic to afford it - that's a win win. I clean up my crap, and I get an Amiga for it :)
Good answer!
I have a 2.7 GHz dual core AGP G5, a 2.5 GHz quad core PCIe G5, and a 1.42 GHz G4 FW800, and a 1.42 GHz iBook (though only three of those will run MorphOS, and none will run OS4...yet).
And I have legacy hardware too.
But I also plan on buying an X5000. The real problem for me isn't the decision to buy, its whether or not I'll have the patience to wait for the X5000/40, or just buy an X5000/20 in order to start using the platform.
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If OS4 supports multicores then the x5000 should be more than enough for me now...The only slow down I get is the Odyssey browser. Heavy pages that have a lot of images sometimes freezes the system like CNN. The video accelleration support needs to be better too and that's another area where performance suffers. Everything else is so snappy it's hard for me to use Windows anymore. Honestly, I wish OS4 was open source to get the community involed to update it faster. I know the developors have to get paid, but the support area is where they need the most improvement and I would pay a support fee to get that...
I've pretty much been using the x5000 as my main computer for a few days now and the only time I need to go back to my workstation is for high-end gaming and the Adobe Creative suite. Today, I'll install VNC and see how the performance is to access some of my software via network.
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Well thanks to Aaron over at Amiga on the Lake I have taken the plunge and have an X5000 system being built for me. I cant believe I have done it and hope it gives me the feeling I get using my 4000T and other machines. The goal here is to consolidate down to as few machines as I can get.
The 4000T is going to stay right where it is, but I will see how this machine works out. If its as good as I am told I may have some other Amiga classic machines posted for sale soon!
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Congratulations! I hope you like it :D
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So did anyone try FS-UAE and qemu modules compiled with KVM (kernel-based virtual machine) support yet? That should make it possible to run AmigaOS4 Classic run on PowerPC systems without much CPU emulation.
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@ Acill
congrats :hammer::pint:I still have my classics and bought an X1000 as soon as they came out and use it every day:)
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Can't tell if you're being snarky or actually curious about the commercial. Here are pics from the set of the commercial. Currently in post, which includes editorial.
Coolness
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So did anyone try FS-UAE and qemu modules compiled with KVM (kernel-based virtual machine) support yet? That should make it possible to run AmigaOS4 Classic run on PowerPC systems without much CPU emulation.
I had read about standalone qemu with early sam460ex and kvm but had not heard about that being included in the fs UAE program. Do you have a link to that?
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@cpaek72
Glad to see another happy X5K user on board. It's not perfect but it sure is fun to use. Another fun app is Celestia on OS4 Depot. Besure to check out the "demo" mode by pressing "d' when it is started. I would also recommend checking out SketchBlock, fantastic native software.
Cheers!
Bill "tekmage" Borsari
I am thinking of buying one to run my maths progs that I created on a 4000 040 with a math coprocessor. Would it be faster? If so by how much?
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I am thinking of buying one to run my maths progs that I created on a 4000 040 with a math coprocessor. Would it be faster? If so by how much?
depending on the programs you have in mind the question arises how much is it worth for you to see them working how much faster. probably, considering price-performance ratio some sort of pc emu like winuae/jit would be your best bet.
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Thanks for your response. I've never seen one of these emulators work. Are they really OK, or do they have some operating limitation?
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Thanks for your response. I've never seen one of these emulators work. Are they really OK, or do they have some operating limitation?
wawa is well known powerpc hater.
wawa think that has mission from allach to free amiga community from this bad powerpc.
Do not trust in anything, what he wrote.
WinUAE is with ppc is nice, but on fastest pc still three times slower than Amiga X5000 in integer operations, and many times slower in float operations because float operations in WinUAE are not translated to native code, but emulated in software.
It may be important to You if You want to port Your math software. WinUAE also has not support for 3D.
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I had read about standalone qemu with early sam460ex and kvm but had not heard about that being included in the fs UAE program. Do you have a link to that?
Sure.
https://fs-uae.net/download-devel#plugins
The qemu plugin for FS-UAE on the download page is only for x86/x86-64, but that should be a matter of building, AFAIK qemu also exists for PowerPC.
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Thanks for your response. I've never seen one of these emulators work. Are they really OK, or do they have some operating limitation?
They are very OK for these kinds of things. Emulators gives you _much_ more freedom and less limitations than any real Amiga hardware, the only hick-up I struggle with, is a little latency when playing certain games. For system friendly productivity software (which is what it sounds like you are doing), WinUAE and FS-UAE are excellent.
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wawa is well known powerpc hater.
And you are an infamous PowerPC fetishist :laughing:
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Thanks for your response. I've never seen one of these emulators work. Are they really OK, or do they have some operating limitation?
why, you can simply download winuae or fs-uae for that matter and simply run them on your windows, mac (?) or linux. the usage is pretty straightfroward, you only need to get hold of amiga kickstart images, either read them out from your genuine hardware, or buy them form an official distributor like cloanto or simply use aros replacement kickstart which is free and will be usually sufficient for regular amiga (68k) software.
now, what concerns performance, to be a bit more precize about what i wrote, i assumed you want simply run your existing amiga (68k) binaries. in which case emulation on x86 is clearly superior in terms of speed. i was not talking about running ppc code, which you might compile assuming you still have your sources, in which case you would lose the advantage of thebrute force computing power of x86, because ppc emulation is apparently slower than 68k, but you might gain a bit on ppc hardware.
nevertheless if you have your sources at hand you might as well compile native x86/x64 binaries, against amiga api, such as aros x86/x64 and run them natively or hosted on a pc, which again would be the fastest option.
however, this all are probably too dry technical considerations, while most users base their decisions on sort of sentiment, being it whether the genuine amiga or ppc, their choice of operating system, loyalty to a certain fraction or whatever.
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Yes, emulation it's great. And in X5000, too.
Here my X5000 with Os3.9, Playstation and NES.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1654403711258849&set=gm.10154926524519157&type=3&theater
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And you are an infamous PowerPC fetishist :laughing:
Hey! Don't lump him in with the rest of us that support PPCs.
He posts on MorphZone as well, and his posts there are rejected as much as they are here.
They aren't just biased, they are frequently inaccurate.
Yes, emulation it's great. And in X5000, too.
Here my X5000 with Os3.9, Playstation and NES.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1654403711258849&set=gm.10154926524519157&type=3&theater
Your reference is not accessible.
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I wrote my progs many years ago using HiSoft basic compiled. They have run every day for 12 hours or so for twenty years, doing repetitive probability calculations. The machine has burnt its A3640 card but the cpu is ok according to Leaman computing. I am worried that an emulator on a laptop would overheat if run all the time and would not be as quick as the new X5000. As this is important the cost of the new machine is secondary. I can sell the bits off the 4000 040 to help the cost. Thanks again
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I wrote my progs many years ago using HiSoft basic compiled.
in this case it seems the choice is between running a genuine 68k binary or recompiling it for the target architecture. in which case you might need to adapt your code to the available basic compilers for particular platform. alas i cant tell much of the current state of basic implementations for ppc systems running os4. i can see that aros has bwbasic and cbmbasic sources in ports, but i dont have any experience with those and do not even know if they are being interpreted or compiled. i could just build them for x86 and 68k just to check out what they are, admittedly.
I am worried that an emulator on a laptop would overheat if run all the time and would not be as quick as the new X5000.
i would rather worry that x5000 is not as fast as a second or third hand budget pc in executing 68k code, and that in case of overheat under constant load the hardware replacement cost might be considerably higher and the replacement availability might be far less secure than some pc laptop. but then its your own reasoning and choice.
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bwbasic and cbmbasic
ok, just compiled them for m68k and baywater basic is an interpreter and cbm basic is basically for c64, lol, detects 64k ram no matter what. so no use i guess.
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@warwazon as it so happens my blogpost today about "classic mode" on the X5000 may help answer any questions you may have about performance especially as i have now set up "classic mode" to run as a 68040 machine with 256mb ram and with Picasso 96 screenmode which is what Ribdevil1 is trying to point out with the link to his Facebook post.
http://amigax5000.blog
The X5000 will certainly give you the best of classic and NG words if you are wanting my evaluation especially now I have the classic side set up quite well :-)
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@outrun
looked at that very briefly, seems to be instructions on setting up your graphics with ppc euae. this is not performance wise of any issue with any emultion i use on x86/x64, neither on host not even under vm. i doubt is has any signicicant impact on simple cpu dependant number crunching tasks as seem to be subject for alphagemini.
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You surprise me that the x5000 is not as fast as a bog standard pc with emulation. Is that really so?
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@alphagemini
I think you will find the X5000 is much quicker running Amiga OS4.1 than any PC running Amiga OS4.1 under emulation. ;-)
In fact the X5000 is too quick at times especially when it comes to unpacking and transferring files.
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Thanks for your help. I will struggle on trying to get my 4000 040 back on but I am very tempted to get the x5000!!
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http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=60665
scroll down a bit to karlos post #5 with the results for the same binary with euae on an apparently rather old lower end core2 pc. as you see that old pc beats all ppc hardware inclusive g4 (g5 might be a bit faster) in 68k emulation. (x5000 seems roughly comparable to x1000, it might be a bit faster in some areas but, slower in others, i think it doesnt have altivec for instance). according to this number crunching test aeon ppc hardware plays speed wise in the same category as g4 based apple products.
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Thanks for your help. I will struggle on trying to get my 4000 040 back on but I am very tempted to get the x5000!!
a4k is a very fine machine, you need to look at the board though to determine if the battery and the capacitors dont leak, rtc battery should be usually removed asap.
im not sure though if i would impose number crunching tasks on it these days. excuse me that blatant advertising, but vampire stand alone might interest you:
http://apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=2¬e=8375&z=wJN3nz
note that i dont have this hardware and cant report its abilities first hand. one should be very cautious with that sort of things, i admit.
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Can we please get back on topic? I would really like to learn more about the X5000 and NG stuff. I have a 4000T for classic.
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Sure.
https://fs-uae.net/download-devel#plugins
The qemu plugin for FS-UAE on the download page is only for x86/x86-64, but that should be a matter of building, AFAIK qemu also exists for PowerPC.
This is beyond my comprehension, what is AFAIK and qemu?
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This is beyond my comprehension, what is AFAIK and qemu?
"afaik" is an acronym for "as far as i know" and qemu (as far as i know) is an emulation engine.
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Can we please get back on topic? I would really like to learn more about the X5000 and NG stuff. I have a 4000T for classic.
What else would you like to know and I will try to answer honestly and as best I can :)