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Author Topic: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out  (Read 7875 times)

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Offline Roondar

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Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
« Reply #104 from previous page: December 21, 2006, 04:18:41 PM »
Quote

DonnyEMU wrote:
Also for those making the DRM comments about copy protection of materials (like the protected path stuff), if you own the original it works fine) and if you don't violate copyright laws then this new feature probably shouldn't bother you that it's there. It just protects the presenters original intellectual property rights.

Anyone complaining about this probably doesn't like this new safety feature because they steal other people's work.

I have no problem with this new functionality as it doesn't affect my work or my own creative works and it will actually protect them. So if you don't like this blame Hollywood, blame people who pirate stuff illegally that it is felt necessary that it be better protected.

These features don't impede your work.
-Don


I disagree. I do not want my computers OS deciding it has to crypt my personally created works. I want those to be as interchangeable as possible. I do not want layers of protection on it. I want transparency and interoperability on my work.

Microsoft/any other OS maker has no business deciding that my own work needs to be protected by them. At all. Ever.

On a sidenote, accusing anybody who disagrees with you of being a thief before they even had their say is rather a dishonest debating tactic. One that should not be used in civil discussion if you ask me.
 

Offline Fester

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Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
« Reply #105 on: December 21, 2006, 04:29:41 PM »
Just for amusement,

I found this when looking for a definition of the word "Vista".

"3) In the fiction of J. R. R. Tolkien, Vista is a part of the atmosphere that surrounds the world of Arda before the cataclysm at the end of the Second Age." -- from zdnet.

So Vista permeates the atmosphere just before the end? :-)

Festering around....
 

Offline jkirk

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Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
« Reply #106 on: December 21, 2006, 04:44:45 PM »
one more reason to avoid vista
vista spyware installed by default
The only stupid question is a question not asked.  


Win•dows: n. A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen-bit patch to an eight-bit operating system originally coded for a four-bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can\'t stand one bit of competition.
 

Offline TheWizard

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Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
« Reply #107 on: December 21, 2006, 05:11:02 PM »
Quote

Chrizz wrote:
Quote

Also, how is WPF - Windows Presentation Foundation (layer) an app?  :roll:


"killer application" is an economic concept.


 :-o Ya....right.
Amigas:
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Offline DonnyEMU

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Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
« Reply #108 on: December 21, 2006, 06:59:25 PM »
Quote
I disagree. I do not want my computers OS deciding it has to crypt my personally created works. I want those to be as interchangeable as possible. I do not want layers of protection on it. I want transparency and interoperability on my work.


Look first of all if you were a content maker and you seen someone making an illegal copy of your work (even if it was to make a dirivitive work or something that was not for monetary gain) it's still illegal in the USA (my country). If you read the Digital Millenium Copyright Act you will see that it was badly written piece of legislation that trounces all over fair use rights. This is not Microsoft's fault it's just the reality of government not understanding consumers and being run by major companies like hollywood. They are asking for these things built-in as protections. The big companies. Microsoft is more or less just complying with current law.

I think these laws need adjustment and change, but instead of trashing microsoft for it and writing stuff in here, you need to write the lawmakers and tell them this stuff and why it needs changing. If you let the big companies win they will change what the general public sees as fair use.

Microsoft won't protect your "works" automatically. They give you a choice of protecting them or not protecting them. It's not all or nothing. It's a choice. If you had to make your livelyhood off media or easily copied stuff you'd worry about it too. Talk to the old Atari ST community as to what piracy did to the software developers of that platform and they had no defense at all. Most people who have to do this stuff for a living like the fact that it's there.. For instance if you were getting royalties off a dvd from an old tv show. Because you bought a home rights private play licensed dvd doesn't mean you can take a clip from that and put it out there for public consumption without permissions.


My point with the thief thing is not to call people thieves (if you are offended though you should be asking yourself why and if you did anything to make you feel that way), but what do you care if you are not making illegal copies of something if it's in there or not..

What's in Vista doesn't work any different than what XP did if you are using it in a legal way. Protected Audio Path and stuff like that has been in drivers from ATI and Nvidia for a long time.

If you are just are figuring this out, then you need to look at the drivers you have installed as this is a mainstream thing and has been for some time. The fact is Hollywood asked that this stuff be there not to rip you off but protect themselves from getting ripped off.

When you buy a DVD the dvd and it's contents are not yours, you are licensing playback from home equipment You don't own any of it. It doesn't grant you the rights to use it or move it or copy it somewhere. Read the fine print. According to laws here in the USA you don't have rights to a backup. Most dvd producers will have a replacement program however. DMCA superceded most legal fair use doctrine and has been in plae for a long time now.

People are great at seeing the consumer side but did you ever try to make a living by music, videos, movies etc. Piracy just adds the cost of these items. I respect Microsoft for suporting the companies who loose money daily off of this and giving them an option not to loose revenue.

Also if you aren't making illegal copies or doing misuse of materials then you aren't a thief and have nothing to worry about and I am not accusing you..

There isn't an opinion here or anything to debate, it's either legal or illegal through current laws (me I am speaking about within the USA). If you really want to make a difference contact your lawmakers of where you live, make sure your own rights to fair use are protected.

I have heard many rationals for illegally duplicating things and saying well I have a right to use this for "X" purpose. Your government dictates what is legal or illegal in laws set forth. Those aren't debatable unless you get them changed. Otherwise it's just a justification.



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Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
« Reply #109 on: December 21, 2006, 07:29:31 PM »
Quote

Chrizz wrote:
oh please.
Indeed, that's what we all think about your retarded posts.
Now bugger off, troll.
And the canary said: \'chirp\'
 

Offline PPC

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Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
« Reply #110 on: December 21, 2006, 09:56:07 PM »
Quote

Chrizz wrote:
Quote

Amazing! now my 68060 csppc Amiga runs circles around your machine in terms of multi tasking and boot time  :-D


Your machine does not deliver.


Well it seems to be delivering much more with less hardware.
It's been working great for years and without the need for a re-install.
Sure not all App's are up to date due to the downfall of the platform.
Fact is that Amiga OS is much more efficient.  :-D
Amiga is addictive coz it is fun to use

A1200 Elbox power tower, BPPC 040/25+603e 240 Mhz, 128 MB RAM,Bvision,Zorro IV&Zorro IV PCI busboard,X-surf,Buddha IDE
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Offline Homer

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Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
« Reply #111 on: December 21, 2006, 11:06:17 PM »
DonnyEMU:
The problem here is not about XP/Vista and DRM, its about a Troll called Chrizz doing his best to upset people. This is an Amiga site. We know the world moved on and left Amiga behind. A good proportion of us also use Windows machines but we don't need someone trolling about the latest PC release and coming back with useless one line comments.
Chrizz does not make an argument, he does not attempt to justify his position, there is no rational discourse. Its like dealing with a child - I'm right, you're SO wrong !!

Lets ask some questions again. Chrizz:

1. Why are you here
2. Which Amiga's have you owned/dreamed of/emulated
3. Are you a troll ?

Oh, and Chrizz - I'm right and you're soo wrong and no returns  :flame:  :crazy:
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Offline mihcael

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Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
« Reply #112 on: December 22, 2006, 12:22:17 AM »
Wow! nice t6o know people are still passionate about their amigas!!

the whole thing reminded me of this quote...

Quote
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)


i had to post it, even though i think that... "People who Quote famous people are tossers!"
(and you can quote me on that one!! ) :-D

Offline Vlabguy1

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Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
« Reply #113 on: December 22, 2006, 02:43:39 AM »
I will post a review of Vista soon(hopefully this weekend)..from install ..to system im running it on..what I like and dislike about it.  
I will post an honest opinion.  

I run a few OS's right now..and want to try Vista...run it through its paces etc.

I always use my Amiga.. ;-)
I think most current OS's trade functionality/stability for fancy good looks.

We shall see..

The Amiga will prevail!!!
 

Offline Kaminari

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Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
« Reply #114 on: December 22, 2006, 05:01:36 AM »
I don't quite get the interest of this presentation. It's presented as some kind of revolutionary "hypervideo" mark-up language technology, but it looks like a rip-off of VRML to me. So, you can watch a documentary and click on the jacket of the dudes to get further info on their equipment while the video is still playing. Great. In my book, it's just a fancy dashboard.

Does anyone remember the 3D desktop of Phase 5's A\box announced a decade ago?
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Offline the_leander

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Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
« Reply #115 on: December 22, 2006, 07:16:22 AM »
Quote

DonnyEMU wrote:
Quote
I disagree. I do not want my computers OS deciding it has to crypt my personally created works. I want those to be as interchangeable as possible. I do not want layers of protection on it. I want transparency and interoperability on my work.


Look first of all if you were a content maker and you seen someone making an illegal copy of your work (even if it was to make a dirivitive work or something that was not for monetary gain) it's still illegal in the USA (my country). If you read the Digital Millenium Copyright Act you will see that it was badly written piece of legislation that trounces all over fair use rights. This is not Microsoft's fault it's just the reality of government not understanding consumers and being run by major companies like hollywood. They are asking for these things built-in as protections. The big companies. Microsoft is more or less just complying with current law.


I am a content maker, and the DMCA adds very little over previous copyright law, what it does, is offer massive smackdowns of anyone fool enough to try to circumvent copy protection.

Yes it's a bad law and needs addressing.

Treat folk honestly and most will be honest, treat them as thieves and they will ablige, in my experience anyway.

Quote

DonnyEMU wrote:
My point with the thief thing is not to call people thieves (if you are offended though you should be asking yourself why and if you did anything to make you feel that way), but what do you care if you are not making illegal copies of something if it's in there or not..


But you did call people thieves, and how dare you sir try to insinuate that it is everyone elses fault that they feel offended when they are liabled. And make no mistake - that is precisely what you did.

Quote

DonnyEMU wrote:
People are great at seeing the consumer side but did you ever try to make a living by music, videos, movies etc. Piracy just adds the cost of these items. I respect Microsoft for suporting the companies who loose money daily off of this and giving them an option not to loose revenue.


It doesn't though, DRM stops no one. Name one application written in the last decade, with a form of copy protection, that wasn't pirated.
Hell, most applications are available from warez servers within days of it being released to the general public.

To say that DRM protects content providers and makers is utter bull of the highest order. All it does is effectively accuse your customers of being thieves, as well as inconveniences them. Those in the know will get the non drm'd crack and have the benefit of not having payed and not having been jerked around with DRM.

All DRM does, and ever will do is create lock-in. Even Microsoft have admitted as much - going so far as to suggest cracking their own DRM so as to allow their own customers to transfer songs legitimately bought under their older music service to be used on their Zune player.

Please stop perpetrating the myth that DRM is anything other then a vender lock-in scam.

Quote

DonnyEMU wrote:
Also if you aren't making illegal copies or doing misuse of materials then you aren't a thief and have nothing to worry about and I am not accusing you..


That's not what you said though.

Quote

DonnyEMU wrote:
There isn't an opinion here or anything to debate, it's either legal or illegal through current laws (me I am speaking about within the USA). If you really want to make a difference contact your lawmakers of where you live, make sure your own rights to fair use are protected.

I have heard many rationals for illegally duplicating things and saying well I have a right to use this for "X" purpose. Your government dictates what is legal or illegal in laws set forth. Those aren't debatable unless you get them changed. Otherwise it's just a justification.


UK fortunately still allows you to back up your media, with the proviso that you don't use both copies at the same time. The BPI (The UK equivelent of the RIAA) has also stated that they have no issue with people ripping their CDs for personal use so long as they don't go out sharing them, which is fair enough imho.
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Offline Roondar

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Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
« Reply #116 on: December 22, 2006, 11:44:33 AM »
Quote

DonnyEMU wrote:
My point with the thief thing is not to call people thieves (if you are offended though you should be asking yourself why and if you did anything to make you feel that way), but what do you care if you are not making illegal copies of something if it's in there or not..


So if someone calls you a thief without reason you won't be offended?

Honestly?

And secondly, you surely can see that the people least affected by Vista's DRM will be the pirates and thieves anyway? They'll figure out ways around the protections (and if that doesn't work, they'll find ways to get unprotected masters) and carry on. They always have, they always will.

The only people that will run into DRM are the ordinary, law abiding folk.

As an example, I had a whole bunch of DRM protected songs on a laptop of mine. The laptop fell down and broke into two bits (no fun that). I managed to salvage most of the files on the still intact hard disk and put them on my new laptop. Obviously, everything worked. Except the DRM protected songs, which refused to play.

I had to contact the service who had sold me the songs and  beg them to reinstate them, convincing them I was not trying to steal from them in the process. This made me feel like a bad person even tho I had done nothing wrong. Since that experience, my tolerance for DRM systems is exactly zero. I am not a thief but the people who sell me music treat me as such. What fun.

DRM is evil. Copyright isn't, but DRM is.
 

Offline TheMud

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Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
« Reply #117 on: December 22, 2006, 11:54:16 AM »
Hmmmm....?!?!??!?!? Mac OS X is better in the version
that was released 5 years ago, than vista...! And now
Leopard is coming... Now thats an OS.

Im an Amiga fan, but the most Powerfull OS is Mac OS X...

New Amigas ? A dream... But to make everything faster
and cheaper for Amiga they should turn themselves into
a pure Software Firm... Ill bet millions would buy an all
new Amiga OS that would run on any "normal" pc hardware...

Or make a co-coporation with a hardware firm, that releases
Amiga OS on there "normal" hardware.. Would be quite easy, so
I havent got a clue, why its not like that... Could be
realized within month... With a new OS...
-----------------------------------------------
http://www.dailyroxette.com - My first passion next to Amiga
 

Offline jkirk

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Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
« Reply #118 on: December 22, 2006, 01:28:08 PM »
Quote
I have heard many rationals for illegally duplicating things and saying well I have a right to use this for "X" purpose. Your government dictates what is legal or illegal in laws set forth. Those aren't debatable unless you get them changed. Otherwise it's just a justification.


you missed something. the dmca does not exist to stop copying of works(despite rumors to the contrary). it merely states you cannot bypass the security(drm) of a file this applies to anything not just movies/music. even if you open your xbox to mod the heck out of it that is tehnically a violation of the dmca since you have to modify or replace the software component.

the actual copying of the movie is still covered under fair use laws. this is not illegal. the creation of an mp3 is not illegal. so the content makers want drm so the dmca will apply no other reason. and if we yell loud enough and vote with our wallets drm won't take hold and grow. i have the same negative feelings about hdcp in hddvd & bluray now you cannot back up a movie to your harddrive for a movie jukebox setup without cracking the disk.

i have set one up a movie/music jukebox myself myself. heck the media producers here even want mp3 players declared a pirate device. i don't make copies for distribution and i don't give copies to others. i am not a thief though our government is trying to make me one.
The only stupid question is a question not asked.  


Win•dows: n. A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen-bit patch to an eight-bit operating system originally coded for a four-bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can\'t stand one bit of competition.
 

Offline DonnyEMU

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Re: AMIGA OS is dead and so every other OS not being VISTA.. check this out
« Reply #119 on: December 22, 2006, 02:22:23 PM »
Quote
So if someone calls you a thief without reason you won't be offended?


No and I wouldn't feel bad about asking the company I bought the licensed material for another copy of it. I have to admit something here, I am involved with a company called the 9thXchange (www.9thx.com). We provide our members with downloadable media, and we also provide them a library backup of stuff they have purchased. So if they have downloaded something they always have a backup available from us and a license file if they have legally purchased something. We do DRM right and support the people who buy from us. The company also provides resale of files purchased and provides royalties to the original creators.

If you are not a thief get some backbone, and don't worry about it. If you position is defensible then you are in the right and you shouldn't take it personally or assume someone is calling you a thief.

Another point: In my country there is an FBI warning on DVDs that says copying dvds even in the advent of no monitary gain is illegal and punishable by X number of years in federal prison even if it wasn't done for monitary gain. That tells me that if you bought a dvd it's not covered under fair use, you are simply buying private exhibition license to the content on that particular disc on a specific playback system and it covers nothing including backups or jukeboxes..

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Don Burnett Developer
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don@donburnett.com
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