Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: DrZarkov on March 28, 2009, 09:39:41 AM
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...I do not mention Amithlon, because it's discontinued.
But what are the differences, advantages/disadvantages?
Anubis is supposed to become a Linux with Amiga look & feel, and an integrated emulator. There is xamiga, which already is a Linux with integrated emulator (e-uae). And there is icaros as a stand-alone Amiga replacement. But in fact, it is a kind of new OS with a strong Amiga look & feel, which can run ported software, but old software also only via an emulator.
So what does make sence to use? Xamiga is a succesor of Amithlon (kind of). But how good is it? You hear nothing about it in any forum... Icaros does not work on my PC (IBM Thinkpad T23), so I can't give it a try. And last but not least Anubis. Currently it is only vapourware. But will it be more than any other Linux-distribution with an Amiga-emulator?
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xamiga:
Have never tried it.
Anubis:
EDIT
An os under development.
Icaros:
EDIT
An os which I use and like.
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Anubis: An Amiga os nextgen for x86 that will have memory protection, benefit from linux vast driver collection. Only the kernel is based on linux the userland will be amiga. Its no linux distro. It have vast potential in the future.
I'd say ARM version is a fairly safe bet at this point in time. Maybe PPC too.
Dammy
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cicero790 wrote:
Anubis:
An Amiga os nextgen for x86 that will have memory protection, benefit from linux vast driver collection. Only the kernel is based on linux the userland will be amiga. Its no linux distro. It have vast potential in the future.
Linux is only a kernel. Anubis is a Linux distro, just possibly one that won't be compatible with any of the other ones.
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mongo wrote:
cicero790 wrote:
Anubis:
An Amiga os nextgen for x86 that will have memory protection, benefit from linux vast driver collection. Only the kernel is based on linux the userland will be amiga. Its no linux distro. It have vast potential in the future.
Linux is only a kernel. Anubis is a Linux distro, just possibly one that won't be compatible with any of the other ones.
It's arguable whether anything built on a Linux kernel is a "Linux distro". Amithlon was built on a Linux kernel, but you'd really be stretching a definition to call it a Linux distro.
As for Anubis, we won't know much until it becomes reality (talk is cheap and plentiful, but without product you can actually run it's just hot air). I think describing it as something with "vast potential" is a mite optimistic.
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Actually Amithlon is a Linux distro with an API translation layer running on top for AmigaOS (v3.9 and below). Sort of like what the WINE project does to allow MS applications to run on top of Linux. I see the Anubis project as an extension or modernization of what Amithlon was doing. If I interpret all the vague info about Anubis it will be a Linux distro with an API translation layer for OS4 applications and some form of 68k sandbox for old 68k apps, almost certainly a modified version of UAE.
I think that once people see through the smoke and mirrors surrounding Anubis they'll see that there's already a system out there that does this almost transparently. It's called MorphOS. Only difference is that MorphOS is a commercial product and Anubis will be free.
I agree that there's too much hype surrounding Anubis. The AmigaOS scene is already too fractured as it is to support yet another Amiga-like OS. The big-3 (OS4, MorphOS, AROS) have enough trouble with maintaining resources (aka programmers/developers) for the Amiga community to go off on another OS tangent.
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ferrellsl wrote:
Actually Amithlon is a Linux distro with an API translation layer running on top for AmigaOS (v3.9 and below). Sort of like what the WINE project does to allow MS applications to run on top of Linux.
Like I said, that's stretching the definition of "Linux distro". Have you tried compiling and running Linux applications on Amithlon? Or even alongside Amithlon?
There's a big difference between "Linux kernel" and "Linux distro" and while both are liberally referred to as "Linux" (depending on context), this ambiguity is often abused by advocates trying to make a point.
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Please stop speculating about Anubis. Here are some facts from the source!
Q: Anubis can be argued to be a linux distro in that it uses the linux kernel?
A: True - but even though that is said, it will be the most unique linux distro in this case, not having much in common with any other distro out there
Q: Anubis is like Amithlon?
A: False. Anubis has nothing to do with AmigaOS other than look and feel / ideas. It will not run your Amiga apps without an emulator (neither does Windows)
Q: Anubis will have an AmigaOS API layer?
A: False. We dont care about source compatability. We are developing new APIS, even though there might be ideas inspired from Amiga
Q: Anubis, based on Linux, will be nothing new. Boring.
A: False. Anubis is new in that it uses many Amiga concepts not seen on Linux in this form. For instance, we use the same kind of file system structure as AmigaOS, with assigns, volumes and paths like "Anubis:Libraries/" and "Devices:"
I some times wonder :) So much speculation when in reality, nobody, except me and two or three others know anything beyond what is on the Anubis website. What almost shocks me (if it werent for the fact that Im not a teen any more and know people behave this way) is that many of you *just pull fantasies out of thin air* and act like you know what you are talking about. Please do not fool yourselves.
ferrellsl: Please just consider Anubis nonexistant until we release Milestone 1. Discussions and speculation before that is just silly.
others: Vaporware, hot air, whatever. Please don`t insult us by assuming that we have promised something we can not deliver on. Until Milestone 1 is released, just call Anubis an ongoing development in the first phase. This is not vapor.
Please read this and let it sink in:
Anubis is an Amiga inspired OS in early development based on the Linux kernel which has new APIS and reinvents the wheel
Anubis is an Amiga inspired OS in early development based on the Linux kernel which has new APIS and reinvents the wheel
Anubis is an Amiga inspired OS in early development based on the Linux kernel which has new APIS and reinvents the wheel
Hope this is clear now ;)
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I will certainly continue to think of Anubis as non-existent, now and for a very long time. All that exists now is a very vague web site and a few words about how great it will be to have another Amiga-like OS based on the Linux kernel.
Nothing new about it. MorphOS does the same thing that Anubis is intending to do, so yes, you're reinventing the wheel. MorphOS may be based on a different kernel but it does the same thing that Anubis is hoping to do. And it not only runs OS4 applications, it also runs MorphOS native-apps. And yes, it's a commercial product and not free but it's available now, but good luck finding hardware to run it on. I'd like to know if Hyperion or the MorphOS crew will be porting to x86 anytime soon. If so, I'll buy from whichever company reaches the market first. I like OS4 and MorphOS equally, although MorphOS does appear a bit more polished. It may never happen so if Anubis sees the light of day, I might actually use that instead.
If Anubis is intended for the x86 then I do see it having a distinct advantage over OS4 and MorphOS. You simply cannot get high-end hardware anymore to run OS4 or MorphOS and porting OS4 or MorphOS to x86 won't be trivial. The PegII and A1 are no longer produced and the SAM is ridiculously overpriced. My PegII will continue to be just a hobbyist toy and conversation piece until someone ports OS4 or MorphOS to x86. AROS has made huge gains lately and I may move to that as my alternate OS if more hardware drivers are written and a decent office suite gets ported....a wordprocessor and spreadsheet program would suffice.
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@ Ferrellsl
Could you please inform yourself about MorphOS and Anubis before posting or stop to post FUD intentionally.
MorphOS does not use API wrappers to achieve Amiga compatibility. The genuine MorphOS API includes a AmigaOS 3.x compatible API set, but there is *no* wrapper, no translation layer for AOS 3.x stuff present. It is just 100% MorphOS.
Well, to be precise, there is one API wrapper available for MorphOS to directly run OS4 binaries: OS4Emu.
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Icaros and XAmiga actually exist. Anubis AKA Arix does not...
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So Anubis is just another try to make an Amiga-ish system, after p.OS, AtheOS/Syllable, and the more successfull Morphos?
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@zylesea
I'm not spreading FUD. I stand by my comments. I have MorphOS 2.2 and I also have AmigaOS 4.1, both running on my PegII. I stated that MorphOS runs OS4 apps. If you misunderstood then please re-read my post.
I don't care what you call it....call it an API emulation layer, OS4EMU, whatever......it all comes down to the same thing. A computer with a non-AmigaOS kernel with the ability to run OS4 applications or its own native applications. I never said in ANY of my posts that MorphOS has a translation layer for OS3 applications or that it runs OS3 or less.
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@DrZarkov
You are correct. It will probably be a long time, if ever, before we see Anubis actually running.
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You are correct. It will probably be a long time, if ever, before we see Anubis actually running.
You could just watch and see what developes here (http://bbrv.blogspot.com/2009/03/anubis-on-aura-on-arm.html). Imagine, a OEM that is helpful for developing an OS, who would have thought?
Dammy
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Yes, and I find it interesting that they're the same company that bankrolled MorphOS (BBRV and Genesi). :-)
Might Anubis be an ARM port of MorphOS? I hope so and I also hope that x86 will follow soon thereafter.
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Shouldn't you actually have something written before you port it? There is absolutely nothing in the downloads on the Arix source forge page. Although I must admit it's far easier to port vapour.
Gotta love it though that the firmware has a name - Aura...
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Might Anubis be an ARM port of MorphOS? I hope so and I also hope that x86 will follow soon thereafter.
It is not. It owes it's heritage to Linux kernel and ideas from AROS. It has nothing to do with MOS which is closed source.
Dammy
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@ DrZarkov
First of all I have to make clear that I'm pretty much a newbie here, still.
Just got back to my old devices yet in December.
But to me now:
Icaros/AROS. This is much Amiga-like since it's heavily possessing the original API strength. But since I cannot run it on my notebook (the only PC at home), I consider it requiring SPECIFIC (like iMica) hardware, thus being pretty relevant to OS4 or MorphOS on that matter. I won't get myself a new PC. Yuk! One is enough.
So like I find that AROS lacks some manpower because since it started, it may not be called a x86 system. Seriously, face it even if you don't like it. Windows fully supports x86, same Linux which is its best feature to me. Well AROS don't. So you got a proper PC - great - you might try some AmigaOS 3.1+ implementation. I don't and thus consider it a narrow-hardware project. Similarily to AOS4 or MorphOS so NO PRETTY MUCH VALUE-ADDED regarding x86. x86 is x86 to me and always will be. So AROS, despite of my intentions, it's pretty useless just like for a guy here, having Thinkpad, a laptop too.
Anubis and Xamiga (just learned 'bout that one now). Those are Linuxes. To which extent? I think since neither is 3.x+ API compliant, they all seem Linuxes to me, nothing more.
UAE strict support? So what? Is Amiga about UAE? Noone would say yes. Amiga-style/think? So what? Linux has many wrappers to resemble Windows even.
I think next steps to make Linux more Amiga will be:
-Amigax- linux having Amiga-like UI widgets
-Aminux- linux having Amiga desktop screen built-in and icons
-Alinux - linux having Amiga desktop screen built-in, though heavily customizable ie. 68k-like, 3.1-like, OS4-like and so.
Bollocks!!
So what I plan is MorphOS or AOS4 for my Macmini, the sooner-one the better-one.
Hope I learned my lessons well...
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@ bhoggett
bhoggett wrote:
mongo wrote:
cicero790 wrote:
Anubis:
An Amiga os nextgen for x86 that will have memory protection, benefit from linux vast driver collection. Only the kernel is based on linux the userland will be amiga. Its no linux distro. It have vast potential in the future.
Linux is only a kernel. Anubis is a Linux distro, just possibly one that won't be compatible with any of the other ones.
It's arguable whether anything built on a Linux kernel is a "Linux distro". Amithlon was built on a Linux kernel, but you'd really be stretching a definition to call it a Linux distro.
Please grow up. Linux by definition is the kernel itself. Modern definition is: a UI/Xwindow layer onto the Linux kernel.
Man...
@ persia
Ari-what???
WTF??
See i can see the Amiga OS is melting down...
Check out Itchy & Scratchy Evil Dead episode to see what I mean.
To me (again as a newbie) the only TWO things that count now are AmigaOS4 and MorphOS, plus UAE as a bonus on ambiguous system (for the time being since both got one built in). Eventually AROS/iMica but as long as neither of the above is released on Macmini say, this year. Which is False (I mean, either will).
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persia wrote:
Icaros and XAmiga actually exist. Anubis AKA Arix does not...
And my brothers baby doesn't exist either yet... (?)
@m0ns00n
Why "Anubis:" and not "Sys:" (or "System:") ? forgive me, by I'd like to *not* associate the system partition with an old egyptian (fake/alien, you decide) god of death ! :-P
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@DiskDoctor:
You can use AROS hosted in pretty much any x86 machine...
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What I wonder about is when it comes to Anubis is "why Linux?"
I mean, Linux is a very moving target, trying to build ontop of it is hard enough for dedicated Linux distros, GNU (toolchain) and everyone involved. For a handfull of people to create a "new OS" ontop of it seems like a heck lot of work, and work that will have to be redone on a regular basis as the Linux kernel moves on. Maintaining kernel patches is not fun, and maintaining kernel patches that will _never_ go upstream is even less fun.
So, why not pick a less "mobile" kernel, one with developers who actually know what AmigaOS is?
Say, DragonFlyBSD?
Also, even from reading the homepage of Anubis, I dont grasp what it's really about - it sounds like a OSX wannabe with linux as kernel and GNUStep as toolkit - nothing Amiga about it. Changing names of directories away from posix standard doesnt really do much.
So I have my doubts about this, and the fact that BBRV has somehow embraced it just makes me even more skeptic.
But, by all means, bring it on in whatever way you like :-)
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Also the Arix/Anubis folks want to change Linux file structure. OS X left the BSD file structure intact, BSD programs run in the normal BSD locations and OS X applications run in the OS X locations. For example the config files for Apache are in /etc/httd or /etc/apache2, but itunes support is in /Library.
The Arix folks want to make one file system that supports both teir Amiga-like GUI and the Linux subsystem, what this means is that they have to change Linux fundamentals, which mean that they can't just grab the latest Kernel and expect it to work, and applications like Apache need to be rewritten to work.
It seems like they are creating a whole lot of work that is unnecessary. Given that they have only 15 people on their list and only show the expertise of three, they wouldn't seem to have the expertise and manpower necessary to accomplish their stated task of an Amiga Like gui let alone produce their own Linux distro to build upon.
I'd forgotten about Matt's DragonFly BSD, hows that coming?
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It seems like they are creating a whole lot of work that is unnecessary. Given that they have only 15 people on their list and only show the expertise of three, they wouldn't seem to have the expertise and manpower necessary to accomplish their stated task of an Amiga Like gui let alone produce their own Linux distro to build upon.
Could you also predict next weeks Lotto numbers for us as well? I'm not really sure why your so negative at this point about the project, unless our concern about your beloved charity OS being threatened by an Open Source OS like Anibus-OS of course. I guess it may be frightening to think that a OEM is supporting Anubis-OS with consumer level hardware, but such is life.
Dammy
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pixie wrote:
@DiskDoctor:
You can use AROS hosted in pretty much any x86 machine...
Frankly you're right. Most sensible PCs are AROS-supported.
But since many people have notebook PCs nowadays, their incompatibility in graphics/sound/other components make systems as AROS require a "special" computer (non notebook). On the other hand one can install Windows and Linux as well, on practically any computer available.
Hence the conclusion - AROS is for PCs as long as you are desktop. So statistically, not necessarily fully supported x86.
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Hence the conclusion - AROS is for PCs as long as you are desktop. So statistically, not necessarily fully supported x86.
If you look closely, Pixie said, "Hosted" and he is right on the money. As long as the host OS has something equal to vmware, it can run AROS hosted without issue. Your thinking of natively running on notebooks which may indeed have issues because of the unusual hardware that maybe be found in a notebook.
Dammy
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I only read what I see, have you been to the Arix page? The fifteen is off that page. Personally I have coded in Obj-C, I have also been involved in OS development. I've also watch dozens of OSs try and fail. You have a massive project, you have limited resources. I am simply being a realist.
I don't think that Arix/Anubis threatens AROS, but obviously you have issues with AROS...
dammy wrote:
It seems like they are creating a whole lot of work that is unnecessary. Given that they have only 15 people on their list and only show the expertise of three, they wouldn't seem to have the expertise and manpower necessary to accomplish their stated task of an Amiga Like gui let alone produce their own Linux distro to build upon.
Could you also predict next weeks Lotto numbers for us as well? I'm not really sure why your so negative at this point about the project, unless our concern about your beloved charity OS being threatened by an Open Source OS like Anibus-OS of course. I guess it may be frightening to think that a OEM is supporting Anubis-OS with consumer level hardware, but such is life.
Dammy
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I only read what I see, have you been to the Arix page? The fifteen is off that page. Personally I have coded in Obj-C, I have also been involved in OS development. I've also watch dozens of OSs try and fail. You have a massive project, you have limited resources. I am simply being a realist.
Seems more like wanting something to fail to be honest.
I don't think that Arix/Anubis threatens AROS, but obviously you have issues with AROS...
I said your charity OS. Unless you have been donating to AROS since P2P took over the bounties, I sure don't remember seeing you donate a penny to AROS. That would leave the possibility of two other charity OSs, OS4 and MOS. Those two I could easily see be threatened by Anubis-OS in the coming years.
Dammy
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dammy wrote:
Hence the conclusion - AROS is for PCs as long as you are desktop. So statistically, not necessarily fully supported x86.
If you look closely, Pixie said, "Hosted" and he is right on the money. As long as the host OS has something equal to vmware, it can run AROS hosted without issue. Your thinking of natively running on notebooks which may indeed have issues because of the unusual hardware that maybe be found in a notebook.
That's right. But hosted OS is not OS, just a virtual guest. Doesn't feel the same.
Notebooks being unusual hardware... Technically True, but statistically... False. It is market that makes the definitions what is usual or not. Always.
BTW AROS Live doesn't boot on my notebook so it ain't hosted that way.
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BTW AROS Live doesn't boot on my notebook
Have you tried
1. booting with Icaros Desktop's "Emergency mode" kernel?
and
2. doing the "nodma trick"? just choose the boot line you want in early menu and press E. Move the cursor to "ATA=32bit" and replace it with "ATA=nodma", then press Ctrl+X to continue booting.
Once installed on the hard drive, you can edit AROS:boot/grub/grub.cfg to turn all the '32bit' to 'nodma' that you need. Another option that might help you, instead of 'nodma', is 'nopci'. Sorry, but some chipsets has to be treated like this to work properly.
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mongo wrote:
Linux is only a kernel. Anubis is a Linux distro, just possibly one that won't be compatible with any of the other ones.
Yeah, if you're using the Linux kernel for your OS, it's a Linux distro whether you want to call it that or not. It may have some freaky userland stuff in place of the GNU and other popular programs, but it's still Linux even if it isn't GNU/Linux.
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murple wrote:
mongo wrote:
Linux is only a kernel. Anubis is a Linux distro, just possibly one that won't be compatible with any of the other ones.
Yeah, if you're using the Linux kernel for your OS, it's a Linux distro whether you want to call it that or not. It may have some freaky userland stuff in place of the GNU and other popular programs, but it's still Linux even if it isn't GNU/Linux.
If that were true then MacOSX is no different from Darwin... Linux is just a kernel...
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@dammy
charity OS
MOS.
What's charity about MorphOS exactly? And why this name calling, have I missed something?
Those two I could easily see be threatened by Anubis-OS in the coming years.
I don't agree here. The target audiences are somewhat different: MorphOS is PPC, Anubis x86. MorphOS runs amiga apps directly, Anubis doesn't.
Both could easily co-exist (obviously assuming here that Anubis reaches maturity).
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I don't agree here. The target audiences are somewhat different: MorphOS is PPC, Anubis x86. MorphOS runs amiga apps directly, Anubis doesn't.
Your forgetting ARM for Anubis-OS and probably PPC (SAM and EFIKA I) as well.
Dammy
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@dammy
Your forgetting ARM for Anubis-OS and probably PPC (SAM and EFIKA I) as well.
I don't get the idea of running AROS or Anubis on anything else than x86 (ARM could make sense assuming some cheap & powerful ARM HW comes along), or how it would somehow "threaten" MorphOS. Typically MorphOS users have already invested on special HW to run MorphOS, so it would seem a bit silly to throw that away.
I'd still like to hear about this "charity" thing and the general feeling of hostility I'm seeing. Or am I just reading too much into things here?
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I'd still like to hear about this "charity" thing, btw.
That's fine. What none main stream OS are you paying money for that isn't selling in the hundreds of thousands?
Dammy
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@dammy
What none main stream OS are you paying money for that isn't selling in the hundreds of thousands?
How does it make it charity?
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by Piru on 2009/3/31 12:41:42
@dammy Quote: What none main stream OS are you paying money for that isn't selling in the hundreds of thousands? How does it make it charity?
I would most certainly call paying for a tiny hobby OS that is not economically viable an act of charity.
Dammy
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@dammy
I would most certainly call paying for a tiny hobby OS that is not economically viable an act of charity.
So equally, you think that paying developers via bounty system (http://www.power2people.org/projects.html) is charity aswell?
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And free beer, don't forget free beer!
dammy wrote:
I don't agree here. The target audiences are somewhat different: MorphOS is PPC, Anubis x86. MorphOS runs amiga apps directly, Anubis doesn't.
Your forgetting ARM for Anubis-OS and probably PPC (SAM and EFIKA I) as well.
Dammy
(http://www.townsquaretoys.com/v/vspfiles/photos/GU075350-0.jpg)
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by Piru on 2009/3/31 14:39:39
So equally, you think that paying developers via bounty system is charity aswell?
Absolutely. It was a personal requirement of mine to find a 501(c)3 to hand off TeamAROS to. Unlike OS4/MOS, AROS is a community OS which depends on charity, be it of donations or from the developer's time and efforts. Others may say they are a commercial OS, the sad numbers of paying customers prove they are economically unviable and more charity then anything else.
Dammy
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by persia on 2009/3/31 15:00:50
And free beer, don't forget free beer!
Sure, as long as your paying for it. Genesi is stepping up to the plate for Anibus-OS ARM (http://bbrv.blogspot.com/2009/03/anubis-on-aura-on-arm.html) support.
Dammy
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So what's on the plate? Is it fully catered?
This whole Arix thing is like nailing jelly to the wall, everything is bluster, big talk, give us an OS that we can play with, the Source Forge page downloads section is empty...
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This whole Arix thing is like nailing jelly to the wall, everything is bluster, big talk, give us an OS that we can play with, the Source Forge page downloads section is empty...
Feel free to ignore the project until the M1 release. It's actively being worked on and things will be released when they are ready.
Dammy
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@dammy
Others may say they are a commercial OS, the sad numbers of paying customers prove they are economically unviable and more charity then anything else.
I still find it insulting, especially the way you put it forward earlier.
It is true however that the income from the MorphOS licenses doesn't even remotely cover the development costs of the OS. But that has been the case for over a decade and personally I don't have any problem with that. MorphOS isn't there to make a profit. It's a hobby more than anything else I'd say, and quite ambitious one, too. The license cost applied to MorphOS 2.x is there to cover the costs of the support infrastructure, the new HW for future developments and so on. I object to labeling that as charity.
Personally I find the MorphOS licensing model quite ok, at least you can try the OS without being forced to buy it. This will work even better once the OS will be available to wider range of affordable HW (read: Mac Mini G4).
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£100 to support MorphOS seems ok to me, same goes to AmigaOS, I will just have to wait until the hardware is cheaper as it is a hobby. The Mac Mini PPC route looks good to me, if there are enough to go round. I would have no problem paying the license fee after having seen them both.
This does not change my mind about my favorite Aros, but the more the merrier if they can all coexist and cooperate again one day in the future. All under the Amiga Next Gen flag maybe.
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@Dammy
There's AROS hosted on Linux and on Windows which gives quite a boost when compared with VMware like solutions
@diskdoctor:
That's right. But hosted OS is not OS, just a virtual guest. Doesn't feel the same.
Notebooks being unusual hardware... Technically True, but statistically... False. It is market that makes the definitions what is usual or not. Always.
BTW AROS Live doesn't boot on my notebook so it ain't hosted that way.
Perhaps it's time to check both hosted AROS solutions... ;)
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by Piru on 2009/4/1 2:31:31
@dammy Quote: Others may say they are a commercial OS, the sad numbers of paying customers prove they are economically unviable and more charity then anything else. I still find it insulting, especially the way you put it forward earlier. It is true however that the income from the MorphOS licenses doesn't even remotely cover the development costs of the OS. But that has been the case for over a decade and personally I don't have any problem with that. MorphOS isn't there to make a profit. It's a hobby more than anything else I'd say, and quite ambitious one, too. The license cost applied to MorphOS 2.x is there to cover the costs of the support infrastructure, the new HW for future developments and so on. I object to labeling that as charity.
You can object all you want, it's charity OS that has no possible future of being profitable enough to pay it's employees and contractors. MOS supporters know it, and the MOS devs know it.
Dammy
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@dammy
it's charity OS that has no possible future of being profitable enough to pay it's employees and contractors.
Excuse me sir, but what what the feck are you talking about?
Didn't you get it? This is not a business, it's a hobby. There is no profit to make. What employees and contractors are you talking about exactly?
Finally, could you please quote properly?
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by Piru on 2009/4/1 8:44:01
Didn't you get it? This is not a business, it's a hobby. There is no profit to make.
Which makes it a charity. Thank you for the confirmation.
Dammy
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@dammy
Which makes it a charity.
No, I think it does not.
But hey I think this conversation is quite pointless. You're using whatever argument that fits your agenda: Either MorphOS is a) unable to pay employees and contractors or b) charity. I say we're not charity, nor are we making MorphOS for money. Obviously that is something you're unwilling to accept.
I don't really understand what your motives are, but clearly they have nothing to do with AROS (Icaros) or Anubis. If you wish to continue this conversation please send a private message to me or email me at sintonen@iki.fi.
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murple wrote:
Yeah, if you're using the Linux kernel for your OS, it's a Linux distro whether you want to call it that or not. It may have some freaky userland stuff in place of the GNU and other popular programs, but it's still Linux even if it isn't GNU/Linux.
So you would call Amithlon a linux distro; I'm not.
But what's in a name ...
when will people understand it doesn't matter?
Staf.
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Who do the Anubis people (hmm sounds like a '50s sci fi film) hate Amiga users so much? Clearly there's a lot of bad blood. Anubis/Arix is an odd man out, if it's built it will not be an Amiga and it will be a Linux, but a Linux that is incompatible with all other Linuxes. Great. Maybe it should be called PlatypOS...
In they end I suppose they're all charity OSs, AmigaDOs, AROS, MOS, Anubis, but as they say on Sesame Street, one of these thing is not like the other... Anubis belongs in the "Alternative Operating Systems" discussion. They need a charity OS over there too!
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@bloodline
bloodline wrote:
murple wrote:
mongo wrote:
Linux is only a kernel. Anubis is a Linux distro, just possibly one that won't be compatible with any of the other ones.
Yeah, if you're using the Linux kernel for your OS, it's a Linux distro whether you want to call it that or not. It may have some freaky userland stuff in place of the GNU and other popular programs, but it's still Linux even if it isn't GNU/Linux.
If that were true then MacOSX is no different from Darwin... Linux is just a kernel...
Well I don't like to actually call it that way but it's almost right. MacOS is proprietary which makes it partially more to Unix-like system than "some sort of linux"... But it doesn't differ much, does it?
As for the kernel itself, MacOSX has a mixed kernel, Darwin/BSD plus some other, not sure about the name, mach or something. So it's not entirely based on some Linux/Unix kernel, has some value added.
To summarize, one might consider MacOSX as some sort of Linux, actually rather Unix-like system. But it's much more than that.
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OS X is certified Unix, the complete linux file system is there and things are [pretty much where you'd expect to find them. On top of this are one of two layers, Carbon, legacy code form Mac OS 9, which will disappear someday or Cocao, the NeXT Framework that is the basis of both the Mac and iPhone.
On top of that is the MacOS itself. When you look at the file system through the finder the Unix file system is hidden (although it's simple to unhide it). Mac provides the wonderful XCode tools to allow for development in Cocoa.
It's funny, some days I find myself buried in a BASH shell, using Vi or Emacs and pretty much not even thinking about the fact that I'm on a Mac.
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@paolone
Once installed on the hard drive, you can edit AROS:boot/grub/grub.cfg to turn all the '32bit' to 'nodma' that you need.
I do not want to install AROS yet, I have no partition left for it now.
I want to use Live CD for the time being. Is this a Live CD, dead one or what??
@pixie
Perhaps it's time to check both hosted AROS solutions... ;)
I did and will be doing that shortly, just wanna make sure I won't boot from the CD on my notebook.
I still think there is a hope. Slightly.
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@DiskDoctor
I want to use Live CD for the time being. Is this a Live CD, dead one or what??
Icaros is for now distributed on Live DVD only, so you need a DVD player/burner to get it.
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paolone wrote:
@DiskDoctor
I want to use Live CD for the time being. Is this a Live CD, dead one or what??
Icaros is for now distributed on Live DVD only, so you need a DVD player/burner to get it.
Goddamnit! CD DVD whatever, DVD is a kind of CD. Yes I meant DVD. No CD here.
I have a DVD player.
I have a DVD burner.
I have some blank DVDs as well.
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Who do the Anubis people (hmm sounds like a '50s sci fi film) hate Amiga users so much? Clearly there's a lot of bad blood. Anubis/Arix is an odd man out, if it's built it will not be an Amiga and it will be a Linux, but a Linux that is incompatible with all other Linuxes. Great. Maybe it should be called PlatypOS...
Persia,
Vitriol from either side is far from helpful, but let me clarify that Anubis will retain a usable level of compatibility with the standard Linux filesystem hierarchy. Especially in the beginning, our focus needs to be on usability. I invite you, and anyone else who is interested, to participate in the project.
For those of you who feel the need to argue over the semantics of whether or not Anubis does or does not constitute a Linux distribution, go at it all you want. It's ultimately a waste of your time as well as the other participants on this forum who have to scroll past/ignore your drivel. As the old adage goes, if you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing at all.
In they end I suppose they're all charity OSs, AmigaDOs, AROS, MOS, Anubis, but as they say on Sesame Street, one of these thing is not like the other... Anubis belongs in the "Alternative Operating Systems" discussion. They need a charity OS over there too!
Once again, arguing over semantics is not getting anyone anywhere. I see no reason why Anubis shouldn't include a minimal version of hosted-AROS, along with E-UAE, "out of the box" as it were. The perception that there's somehow bad blood between these projects is entirely of your own creation.
Additionally, my hat is off to Piru and the entire MorphOS team. They have built a stable, quality product and deserve my respect. Their passion and steadfastness over the years is to be lauded, if you ask me.
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@Dammy
Sincerely, i want morphos because is amiga compatible its fast and a reality, what can i make with anubis? open office, gimp...?
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@Kickstart
Are you just going around every thread that mentions Anubis and venting your dislike deliberately? That kind of thing isn't particularly nice and when dev's read these responses it can be a bit hurtful. They're members/readers of sites like this too and they're making Anubis simply because they've been involved with other efforts and those experiences have shown them that it's time to try another way.
Please don't condemn or put down peoples efforts right from the start. At least give them some time to prove themselves even if you don't feel that they're efforts on AROS (for example) mean anything.
Andy
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No, dont worry, i dont wrote my "opinion" anymore on anubis threads, but dont compare anubis with aros for example, aros exists... bye.
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Funny. I can read today, about Anubis, the same rants I could read many years ago about AROS...
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and where would we be without AROS?
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Yeah, they said the same thing about Amiga OS 5 too!!!!
Funny. I can read today, about Anubis, the same rants I could read many years ago about AROS...
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Just for the record, as Aperez has already mentioned, there is no bad blood between Anubis and AROS. Actually, it is just the opposite. The Anubis people still work on and totally support AROS.
I love AROS!
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Just for the record, as Aperez has already mentioned, there is no bad blood between Anubis and AROS. Actually, it is just the opposite. The Anubis people still work on and totally support AROS.
I love AROS!
Good example is Dr. Schulz's work on AROS-ARM.
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I fail to see the problem with Linux file structure, everything is in it's place.
/boot -> kernel and any other bootable files
/root -> The user, "root", home directory
/bin -> System binary executables runnable by root and normal users
/sbin -> System binary executables runnable only by root
/lib -> System shared library files
/var -> Logs, runtime process locks
/etc -> System configuration
/tmp -> Temporary files
/usr -> Userland files (non-system)
/usr/home -> Users' homes
/usr/lib /usr/bin /usr/sbin -> Same as previous except non-system
/usr/local -> Userland files specific to the local installation
/usr/local/lib /usr/local/bin /usr/local/ec -> Same as previous except for locally installed applications
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Persia, you're a little late to the party, as usual, but the so-called "Linux" filesystem to which you refer is really nothing more than an inherited directory structure from much older unices which predate BSD and Linux by a good 15-20 years. I use and administer hundreds of Linux servers each day, and in that context, the directory structure is acceptable, if not ideal. However, it is very un-user-friendly and unnecessarily complex for your average home user. The other issue that many have with it is that manual removal of applications requires one to delete files from upwards of a half-dozen to potentially a dozen different directories. Bundling related units more closely makes a greater amount of sense. This is what Application Bundles did in the OpenStep specification, and before that, in NeXTSTEP (OpenStep was a codified version of most of the APIs which were originally developed in NeXTSTEP. The resources for a given application should be contained within an application bundle itself (which is, in the case of OpenStep and OS X, simply a directory which is handled in a special manner by default by the file manager). The codified Linux FHS requires that application resources be in /usr/share, etc. This makes no sense to a casual user, and is actually extremely unintuitive.