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The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: redrumloa on June 25, 2010, 12:24:37 AM

Title: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: redrumloa on June 25, 2010, 12:24:37 AM
I see you want to help, thanks for stopping by! :hammer:

(http://i45.tinypic.com/eb2d0j.jpg)

This is a MSC-251AR-BS5-CH single board computer I will be using with a Pentium MMX 200Mhz CPU soon that I will be getting thanks to joekster (http://amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=53371).

The problem is, I have no manual for this SBC and Google is not my friend either... If you would like a bigger picture of the board, PM your email address to me and I will send a much larger scan.

Lots of jumpers on this board and only jumper numbers, no descriptions..

So far my guess is:
The 2 jumpers on the top left corner of the CPU is bus speed.
The large number of jumpers to the right of the CPU socket is the multipler.
The single jumper to the bottom right hand corner of the CPU socket is the voltage selection.

Any guesses? We have some great minds here :)
Title: Re: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: AmigaHeretic on June 25, 2010, 12:34:59 AM
Quote from: redrumloa;567080
I see you want to help, thanks for stopping by! :hammer:


This is a MSC-251AR-BS5-CH single board computer I will be using with a Pentium MMX 200Mhz CPU soon that I will be getting thanks to joekster (http://amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=53371).

The problem is, I have no manual for this SBC and Google is not my friend either... If you would like a bigger picture of the board, PM your email address to me and I will send a much larger scan.

Lots of jumpers on this board and only jumper numbers, no descriptions..

So far my guess is:
The 2 jumpers on the top left corner of the CPU is bus speed.
The large number of jumpers to the right of the CPU socket is the multipler.
The single jumper to the bottom right hand corner of the CPU socket is the voltage selection.

Any guesses? We have some great minds here :)


According to this, http://www.delvingware.com/webservices/medialibrary/media/datasheets/MSC-251.pdf , it says it has two serial ports that are jumper selectable for RS232/422/485

It doesn't say which jumper though.
Title: Re: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: pyrre on June 25, 2010, 02:35:47 AM
I think you may be better of contacting any dealer about a tec manual. Unless you already have done so...
Title: Re: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: redrumloa on June 25, 2010, 03:35:23 AM
Quote from: pyrre;567102
I think you may be better of contacting any dealer about a tec manual. Unless you already have done so...

Looked high and low...
Title: Re: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: the_leander on June 25, 2010, 03:37:44 AM
Quote from: redrumloa;567106
Looked high and low...


Right, I'm bored.

Red, who made the board originally? I want to give my google-fu a workout.
Title: Re: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: redrumloa on June 25, 2010, 03:56:49 AM
Quote from: the_leander;567107
Right, I'm bored.

Red, who made the board originally? I want to give my google-fu a workout.

Good question. MSC from the best I can tell, what that is short for who knows. This seems to be the model number.

(http://i48.tinypic.com/2i5lpx.jpg)

That is from the back, the only clue on the back. You see the same model number on the front... That is it.
Title: Re: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: Ni72ous on June 25, 2010, 04:06:58 AM
It seems the manufacturer is called Mitac

http://mitac.industrialpartner.com/single-board-computers/msc-251.htm
http://www.delvingware.com/webservices/medialibrary/media/datasheets/MSC-251.pdf

Can only find a 251 and 251al on their site though.
Title: Re: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: the_leander on June 25, 2010, 04:09:35 AM
Mitac Msc-251al is the closest thing I can find in terms of appearence and model number.

Looking for a manual now.
Title: Re: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: the_leander on June 25, 2010, 04:32:13 AM
Looks like beyond a base tech sheet which I found (which was a glorified brochure) am SOL on the manual.

However looking at NitrousB's link I found the support contact address of support AT industrialpartner.com

You might try and see if they'll email you a pdf of the manual?
Title: Re: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: omnicron10 on June 25, 2010, 04:38:43 AM
I found ALI1523 jumpers for a different MB.  that might help you figure out what jumpers the board has and what they might be used for.

http://www.uktsupport.co.uk/acer/mb/v55lan2.htm

The docs USE to be here.  http://www.mitacinds.com/ICP/pdf/MSC251v2.pdf

The link is dead. I tried a few tricks to find it but no luck.

Post this to see if that helps in any way.  This one is pretty hard to find.

This is who seems the be mitancinds.com now.... http://voxtechnologies.com  

Is this it? http://voxtechnologies.com/industrial-pc-solutions/half-size-sbc/sbc-557-a10

A SBC that is VERY close.  Same ALI chipset but tad newer.

http://www.emacinc.com/Archive/PCSBC/sbc-557/manual/sbc557.pdf




They still appear to have SBC ISA machines... look and see if they have one close. Maybe they just changed the model numbers.
Title: Re: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: zipper on June 25, 2010, 10:44:49 AM
http://web.archive.org/web/20040310142133/http://www.mitacinds.com/ICP/pdf/MSC251v2.pdf  - but no definitions for jumpers
Title: Re: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: Zac67 on June 25, 2010, 11:22:16 AM
There are two, possibly three (for SS7) multiplier jumpers (BFx). They may be two pins each but most boards have three pin ones. The jumpers will most likely be close to the CPU socket, wildly guessing it's JP9. To make sure, just follow the traces from the CPU socket (Y-33, X-34 & W-35).
Can't do much wrong with trying, too high a multiplier will just prevent boot up, too low you can easily recognize on POST.

Bus speed may be switchable 50/60/66 MHz, usually two three-pin jumpers. They're probably close to the PLL (can't make it out on your shot). Again, nothing to lose, probably set to 66 MHz anyway.

Then there's the voltage problem. It may be just a single jumper (3.3 vs. 2.9 V) or a row of 2x4 or even 2x5, located close to the voltage regulator (JP23?, JP22?). With an old Pentium in place and using a multimeter on the VR you should be able to figure it out.
Title: Re: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: som99 on June 25, 2010, 07:09:31 PM
Just out of curiosity could you tell me the size of the board and what you are going to use it for?

I got a PicoITX and it's realy small, if I where you I would put the biggest HDDs possible in it, max out the ram then use it as a network storage device or a webserver and built a tiny case for it, using a picoPSU and just resolder it with a AT conector :)
Title: Re: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: redrumloa on June 25, 2010, 08:05:35 PM
Quote from: som99;567223
Just out of curiosity could you tell me the size of the board and what you are going to use it for?

I got a PicoITX and it's realy small, if I where you I would put the biggest HDDs possible in it, max out the ram then use it as a network storage device or a webserver and built a tiny case for it, using a picoPSU and just resolder it with a AT conector :)

It is 7.75" x 4.75". I bought it about 2 years ago but haven't used it yet. I am going to try to install it internally in a 1541 drive case to have a whole computer in the 1541 drive. I will probably just use true MS-DOS, because it's main purpose will be for archiving with MNIB and an internal parallel connection to the 1541. I will also probably put 64HDD on it for the hell of it to use with my 128T, if I ever feel the need to. Installing it in a 1541 case will be tricky, but I have a plan...

This board has a Disk-On-Chip socket, which I will probably buy and use for the main OS. I will also get an IDE->CF adapter to be able to move files between the modified 1541, my PC and the 128T at will.

The biggest use will be MNIB for archiving old originals I have to G64. I have several hundred originals, many starting to fail. 1571s (like in my 128T) are very fincky and do not handle old failing disks well. An original 1541 handles old disks a lot better, so a lot better chance of being able to read failing disks.

I did originally chose an older socket 7 SBC for not just the price at the time, but the ability to run real DOS with full driver support.
Title: Re: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: redrumloa on June 26, 2010, 04:54:17 AM
Well it works. Since this is some sort of industrial board I assumed they must have used an Intel, which is what I was originally looking for and got from joekster today. It posts right away and I can go into the BIOS. Nice BIOS!

(http://i48.tinypic.com/mj3jtc.jpg)

It detects the Intel MMX, but is set for 133Mhz.

(http://i50.tinypic.com/2ecett0.jpg)

I'm fine leaving this as 133Mhz for now since I'm not worried about speed. I just gotta look into CPU voltage to make sure it is right...

Thanks to all that helped look for info:hammer:
Title: Re: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: Zac67 on June 26, 2010, 11:09:33 AM
If you poke around the voltage regulator with a multimeter you'll surely find the core voltage. P/MMX wants 2.8V, very late CPUs run with as low a voltage as 2.4V.

The multiplier is set to 2.0x, for 3.0x (200 MHz) you'll need to change both jumpers unfortunately. Here's a socket pinout to help you track the BF traces:
(http://wowohl.de/Pix/S7_BFx.gif)
Title: Re: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: nick_danger on May 02, 2011, 04:02:10 PM
It's a year later but here is some of the info you may have been needing.
Title: Re: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: amiga92570 on May 02, 2011, 04:58:59 PM
Quote from: nick_danger;634884
It's a year later but here is some of the info you may have been needing.


I sent Red the manual for this board last year.
Title: Re: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: lutiana on July 24, 2017, 07:09:29 PM
Sorry to resurrect this thread, but it appears that some people here have the manual for this SBC, which I desperately need myself. I picked up this exact SBC a few weeks ago and I am interested in working out how to get it working and what the various options on the board do.
Title: Re: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: Iggy on July 24, 2017, 08:34:43 PM
Good luck with it.
If you figure out the voltage settings, and the multiplier settings, you might want to experiment and see if it can handle a K6-2 cpu.
Setting a K6-2's multiplier to 2X, gives it a 6X multiplier, so that when set to a 66 MHz bus speed, you get 400 MHz operation.
Which is about twice what that board will do with a Pentium, AND the K6-2 is faster clock for clock than the Pentium.
It probably can't support a K6-2+ or K6-III (as they have on chip cache), and they really benefit boards that can be jumpered for higher bus speeds anyway (75, 83, or 100 MHz).
Title: Re: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: BLTCON0 on July 24, 2017, 09:11:02 PM
Quote from: Iggy;828656

It probably can't support a K6-2+ or K6-III (as they have on chip cache), and they really benefit boards that can be jumpered for higher bus speeds anyway (75, 83, or 100 MHz).


They will typically boot fine albeit mis-identified and there exist utilities to configure them correctly after boot-up, but the real issue is the voltage regulators. Those chips would stress the 12A regulators of the venerable TX97-XE socket7 board to the max, esp. the 2.4 volt versions.
I would highly doubt this particular SBC could reliably sustain this kind of load, it just doesn't seem to have been made with those chips in mind.

But if it could, then it's the on-chip full speed L2 cache of the K6-III that actually makes it perfectly suitable for lower bus speeds - the higher the discrepancy between CPU and system bus speed the more profound an effect the local cache has.

On my rev 4.1  GA-5AX with a 2.4V K6-III @ 400, I actually preferred the 66 Mhz setting because it enabled the motherboard's tag-RAM to function properly (not so at 100 MHz), thus letting the motherboard's cache function as L3 cache with the K6-IIII.
Overall performance was perceptibly snappier and only tasks involving huge RAM I/O loads would be somewhat slower.
Title: Re: Who wants to play help red figure out the jumpers?
Post by: lutiana on July 24, 2017, 09:34:59 PM
Quote from: Iggy;828656
Good luck with it.
If you figure out the voltage settings, and the multiplier settings, you might want to experiment and see if it can handle a K6-2 cpu.
Setting a K6-2's multiplier to 2X, gives it a 6X multiplier, so that when set to a 66 MHz bus speed, you get 400 MHz operation.
Which is about twice what that board will do with a Pentium, AND the K6-2 is faster clock for clock than the Pentium.
It probably can't support a K6-2+ or K6-III (as they have on chip cache), and they really benefit boards that can be jumpered for higher bus speeds anyway (75, 83, or 100 MHz).

Well mine came with a P-233 MMX chip, and I assume it's configured for that chip. I do have a K6-2 450 which I could try to use on the thing.

Mostly I want the manual to work out how to power the thing outside of a backplane and I do not have a backplane. There is a power header on the board and I am interested to know if that could be used to power it.