Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: amigadave on June 10, 2008, 05:35:33 PM
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Who here is thinking of getting a new cell phone on July 11th?
Half the price and twice the speed for the new Apple iPhone is very tempting for me, I just wish that it would work on my phone provider of choice "Verizon", as they have the best coverage in my area.
My laptop of choice is a MacBook, I have an Intel MacMini as my Carputer in my Dodge Nitro R/T 4x4 (Sunburst Orange and gorgeous, full black leather interior w/heated front seats, 20" chrome wheels, bought before I was forced to retire), my monsters sized Dell XPS tower with WindowsXP Media Edition will be converted to a Hack-Intosh with Parallels, or Boot Camp as soon as I can figure out how to do it safely.
I am impressed with the world of "Mac" and think that Apple has done a great job at creating some innovative products and the most usable - user friendly OS on the planet.
Amiga for fun and old school video editing, Mac for everything else would be great for me. I would love to dump MS Windows forever, I just hate the thought of learning another CAD program and still have not found a decent navigation program for the Mac. I just wish that the Mac had more market share to get more developers and provide ALL the programs on the Mac that are available for Windows.
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Is that Troll bait? Because I for one won't own a product by Apple if they paid me. Steve Jobs is far worse than Bill Gates.
I am quite happy with my free with contract Treo.
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Nlandas wrote:
Is that Troll bait? Because I for one won't own a product by Apple if they paid me. Steve Jobs is far worse than Bill Gates.
I am quite happy with my free with contract Treo.
Nooooooo! I don't troll here or anywhere other than Big Bear Lake for trout.
Why so much dislike for Apple products and how can you compare Steve Jobs with Bill Gates? Steve is an a$$h0le and Apple products are over priced, but Bill Gates is a criminal and has harmed the entire computer community in so many ways for so many years, there is no comparison. Where would we be today if DOS and Windows had not held back innovation and creativity by killing dozens, if not hundreds of competing companies with unethical and many times illegal business practices? What would computing be like if we had choices and developers were free to create without being forced to use DOS/Windows crippled tools because there was no other financially viable choice to make?
Apple is not a perfect choice, but it is light years ahead of anything that MS has to offer.
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Already have an iphone, bought 6 weeks ago when the price dropped in the UK to 169, and unlocked to work with my work-provided SIM.
Will I change to the new version? Yes, as long as I can unlock it. By the sounds of it, I'll need to sign a contract in store to get a new iphone, and I'm not really interested in that though unless they do a cheap data only rate.
Major reason for changing? Tomtom. At the moment I use a Windows Mobile device for Tomtom navigation: if the iphone can do that as well as everything it does, it's the one device I need...
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The only thing innovative Apple has created recently (and I'm thinking post-Lisa, really) is a very nice, effective system for marketing their products. Oh, that and the iPod. :)
OS X would have been innovative, had it been released as version 8 of the MacOS instead of version 10. UNIX on the home desktop was still a new idea back in the 90s, but Linux is the platform that really pushed multiuser operating systems into use by consumers, not the Mac. OS X was catchup, a way for Apple to avoid losing what little market share they had, no more.
However, I'm in complete agreement with your comments about Microsoft and Bill Gates. He has stolen at least half of what they sell, and the other half leaves me with the same feeling I get when I look at a Kia - it works, but I wouldn't be caught dead driving one!
I have to use XP on my laptop for work - have to, because the very small company I work for is dependent on a legacy system written to run in MS Access. Between other projects, I'm working on replacing that entire system, and I'm really happy about that and can't wait until I can replace XP with something else. _Anything_ else. :madashell:
amigadave wrote:
Where would we be today if DOS and Windows had not held back innovation and creativity by killing dozens, if not hundreds of competing companies with unethical and many times illegal business practices? What would computing be like if we had choices and developers were free to create without being forced to use DOS/Windows crippled tools because there was no other financially viable choice to make?
That's a good question, and one to which we may never know the answer. No one with power seems interested in doing anything about Gates's crimes, probably because he pays his taxes. Personally, I think it'll take an act of god to get rid of him and his legions of bottom of the barrel programmers. (That's not to say they're all like that, I'm sure there are a few good hackers up there in Redmond, but the quality of their products reflects poorly on them as a group.)
I think it'd be hilarious if some group of people out there just started ripping off MS's stuff right back. A great place to start would be designing a kernel for the PC that could use Windows device drivers. Forget about coding them, just steal them from Gates! :idea:
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Sorry AmigaDave, I didn't mean to rant -- I'm simple amazed at the shear about of free iPhone press that Apple is getting and it just "set me off" when I saw it here. I apologize in advance and I'm sure I just ruined your thread, as it'll now devolve into a platform thread. It's just that Apple's iPhone isn't all that innovative - smartphones have been doing the majority of it's features for years. As normal Apple has simple done a good job of packaging and marketing their version of it.
Bill Gates, while a ruthless competitor typically stands by his deals. I do believe that both Bill and Steve have held back the industry. The book "On The Edge" does a great job of describing Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. Steve is by far the worse. I believe that Apple has lied more in it's marketing than any other vendor in the PC industry. They still do it today in their Mac vs. PC adds.
I have no love for Microsoft either, my Treo runs PalmOS and my next will run a Linux variant. Apple has been ripping off consumers for years. As you say, their products are over priced and they are the sole source of those products. While Windows may be a virtual monopoly, it runs on thousands of hardware vendors machines. I have more choice with Microsoft OSs than someone has with Apple. (Yes, I realize the irony that Amiga was a sole source provider of AmigaOS hardware as well - I never liked that either. I thought they should have allowed cloning back in 1987.)
Of course I'd rather run Linux or actually AmigaOS if it's ever updated and released on modern hardware, I stand by my statement -- I will never own an Apple product. It'd rip my heart out if AmigaOS 4 was ported to Mac Mini like many here talked about.
I don't agree that Apple is light years ahead of anyone, except in marketing. We have 50+ Mac OS X machines here that we support and they are not any easier to use and are harder to support. (There are simply less sources of information and no local repair shops.) OS X crashes, has bugs, doesn't well support all hardware(especially printers) contrary to Apple's marketing. All OS X is, is a variant of NextOS/BSD with a pretty front end with a premium price tag. Once again Apple has done a GREAT job of marketing Unix to the masses.
To go slightly more back on topic -
The RIM 9000 looks really neat. As does the new Palm slated to use a Linux variant.
Other than the multi-touch interface, why do feel that the iPhone's interface is really that compelling over the RIM or Treo lines or even the new Samsung with multi-touch?
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Yep, 3G and US$199, not a bad phone. I'll take one...
(http://boards.cannabis.com/images/smilies/custom/tsg_smiley_rambo.gif)
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Well, I have never seen a crash on any of my Macs, but I have only been using Mac devices since my first Mac, a G4 Powerbook of a few years ago.
When it comes to computers, I don't mind tinkering with my Amigas and I know that there is no support from anyone except the community and my own brain. But when it comes to a mainstream computer that I want to use for working, I want and expect it to work just like every other appliance in my home, just like my TV, phone, refrigerator, etc. I just want to plug it in and use it for what it is intended. With a Mac, that is what happens, it just works. It finds network wifi for me and the OSX interface is more intuitive IMHO than Windows will ever be. As for Linux and its cousins, I am all for them and hope that they will mature some day to be useful to people in general and not just geeks and nerds that go under the hood and make it work the way they want, or the way it should without any intervention.
Some people don't like Macs because Apple is too controlling and limiting in the way they work. I happen to like the direction Apple has gone and love that their products work so well together, so I like the fact that an iPhone will integrate with my laptop, Carputer and iPod and hopefully some day with my Dell tower. All without me having to be an expert at configuring each device to recognize each other.
It just works, so it works for me.
I don't have enough hours in the day to do all the tinkering I want to do on my Amiga collection, so why would I want to have to tinker with my other devices.
That is me, others will feel much differently and the Mac experience is not for you.
By the way, Palm comes in a close second in my opinion.
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I've had a 1st generation iPhone since release in the UK... It's a great phone and by far the best PDA I've ever used. Like the Mac it benefits from the tight OS/Hardware integration... But what really sets it apart is the work of genius user interface, which is unmatched by other devices. I'll be first in line for a 16gig 3G one in July!
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I'll be upgrading to a new 3G iPhone too. I'll unlock the iPhone I've got now and eBay it. Hopefully I'll make back the cost of the upgrade :-)
bloodline wrote:
I'll be first in line
I'm sharpening my elbows...
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moto
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I agree with alot the anti Bill Gates & Apple stuff thats been said here but this is a phone not a home computer.
There's alot of competition on the smart phone market these
days. thats why they keep getting better and better at a fast rate.
Right now the 3G iphone is the "Amiga" of smart phones. I dont care who made it. Its pretty awesome and I'm thinking about getting one.
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amigadave wrote:
Well, I have never seen a crash on any of my Macs, but I have only been using Mac devices since my first Mac, a G4 Powerbook of a few years ago.
(EDIT)
But when it comes to a mainstream computer that I want to use for working, I want and expect it to work just like every other appliance in my home, just like my TV, phone, refrigerator, etc. I just want to plug it in and use it for what it is intended. With a Mac, that is what happens, it just works.
(EDIT)
By the way, Palm comes in a close second in my opinion.
I'm glad you've had such a positive experience with them. I can tell you after supporting them for 18 years that everything doesn't always go smoothly with them. If you only use Apple devices or certain products listed as compatible you are usually OK. They do get a lot less support than PC compatibles do when it comes to drivers and bug fixes to drivers. In an enterprise environment this can be a pain.
We have Mac users telling us but Apple says it just works. you hook it up and it finds the device and it just works. Meanwhile, the piece of graphics software they are using has a bug that causes it to not correctly talk to the Xerox driver and print server and when it does, it doesn't support the paper size that they want to use, unless you first type a cryptic command into the CLI. We literally have to create little guides of "work arounds" for our Mac labs and the users simple accept them as normal.
I don't love Windows but I've installed thousands of systems with it and believe it or not, it just works too. Finds a wireless network and sets it up, plug and plays printers, etc. Really don't love Microsoft but wow, if Apple were a political party they'd be the kings of rhetoric.
Doesn't crash.
Can connect to any device automatically and work with it.
It just works.
Runs faster than any other PC.
Is easier to use.
Is better for graphics.
Makes you cool.
I thought Amiga had a cult following. :-o Then I realized that most Amiga users have no problem using other technologies, they just had reasons for liking the Amiga.
Keep on keeping on. :-D We'll just have to agree, to disagree on how evil Apple is. Sounds like we have some common ground on Palm and Amiga. RIM is pretty cool too - I guess they all run on a Linux variant and the times I've been able to play with a blackberry it's been easy to use.
I guess I'm still a hold out, who'd love to see AmigaOS used as the strong basis for a new modern OS that runs on common hardware.
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motorollin wrote:
I'll be upgrading to a new 3G iPhone too. I'll unlock the iPhone I've got now and eBay it. Hopefully I'll make back the cost of the upgrade :-)
bloodline wrote:
I'll be first in line
I'm sharpening my elbows...
--
moto
Fine fine... I'll go second then... Gah, you can't take him anywhere :roll: :lol: ;-)
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spihunter wrote:
I agree with alot the anti Bill Gates & Apple stuff thats been said here but this is a phone not a home computer.
There's alot of competition on the smart phone market these
days. thats why they keep getting better and better at a fast rate.
Right now the 3G iphone is the "Amiga" of smart phones. I dont care who made it. Its pretty awesome and I'm thinking about getting one.
So, if the anti-christ made a really cool techno-widget you'd be sure to send him your do re me? Yes, it's a phone but it's profits go to Apple. :-P
If I needed 3G, I'd wait for the RIM to be done.
However, it's not my money - but I send none of it to Apple and as little of it to Microsoft that I can't help.
To each their own. :crazy:
-Nyle
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Linux is the platform that really pushed multiuser operating systems into use by consumers
Errh? "No"?
As for the JesusPhone, I don't want one.
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Nlandas wrote:
spihunter wrote:
I agree with alot the anti Bill Gates & Apple stuff thats been said here but this is a phone not a home computer.
There's alot of competition on the smart phone market these
days. thats why they keep getting better and better at a fast rate.
Right now the 3G iphone is the "Amiga" of smart phones. I dont care who made it. Its pretty awesome and I'm thinking about getting one.
So, if the anti-christ made a really cool techno-widget you'd be sure to send him your do re me? Yes, it's a phone but it's profits go to Apple. :-P
I don't care who makes it, if it does what I want then I want it!!!
If I needed 3G, I'd wait for the RIM to be done.
Sure but blackberries suck... no question... Spend 10 min with an iPhone, and it feels like you've been using if for years... spend an Hour with a RIM device and you'll wonder why even bothered with the idea of mobile computing devices...
I've used both... the RIM for work and the iPhone personally... and that should explain why I have an iPhone and not a RIM :-)
However, it's not my money - but I send none of it to Apple and as little of it to Microsoft that I can't help.
To each their own. :crazy:
Ahh, for sure, but make sure you are not speaking from personal opinion but from experience :-)
Either Microsoft or Apple will get my money if they make something I want/need :-)
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You may be an ambassador to England or France,
You may like to gamble, you might like to dance,
You may be the heavyweight champion of the world,
You may be a socialite with a long string of pearls
But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.
You might be a rock 'n' roll addict prancing on the stage,
You might have drugs at your command, women in a cage,
You may be a business man or some high degree thief,
They may call you Doctor or they may call you Chief
But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.
You may be a state trooper, you might be a young Turk,
You may be the head of some big TV network,
You may be rich or poor, you may be blind or lame,
You may be living in another country under another name
But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.
You may be a construction worker working on a home,
You may be living in a mansion or you might live in a dome,
You might own guns and you might even own tanks,
You might be somebody's landlord, you might even own banks
But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.
You may be a preacher with your spiritual pride,
You may be a city councilman taking bribes on the side,
You may be workin' in a barbershop, you may know how to cut hair,
You may be somebody's mistress, may be somebody's heir
But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.
Might like to wear cotton, might like to wear silk,
Might like to drink whiskey, might like to drink milk,
You might like to eat caviar, you might like to eat bread,
You may be sleeping on the floor, sleeping in a king-sized bed
But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.
You may call me Terry, you may call me Timmy,
You may call me Bobby, you may call me Zimmy,
You may call me R.J., you may call me Ray,
You may call me anything but no matter what you say
You're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody.
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.
(http://forums.teamphoenixrising.net/images/smilies/mexwave.gif)
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So, if the anti-christ made a really cool techno-widget you'd be sure to send him your do re me? Yes, it's a phone but it's profits go to Apple.
If the anti-christ made a smartphone I'm sure it would be a lot cooler then Apple's! :lol:
Seriously though, If your going to boycott a company over ethics issues then I suggest that you should also boycott Sony, Nintendo, Verizon, Elbox, Amiga Inc, All fast food chains, All big oil companys, etc....
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niklasni1 wrote:
Linux is the platform that really pushed multiuser operating systems into use by consumers
Errh? "No"?
So what other operating system is in widespread use as a consumer desktop, and supports use by multiple users simultaneously? There are plenty of multiuser operating systems [VMS, Solaris, HP/UX, AIX, *BSD, PRIMOS, etc.] but I don't know of any that are popular among consumers besides Linux. And Linux's popularity predates OS X by quite a bit.
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pkillo wrote:
niklasni1 wrote:
Linux is the platform that really pushed multiuser operating systems into use by consumers
Errh? "No"?
So what other operating system is in widespread use as a consumer desktop, and supports use by multiple users simultaneously? There are plenty of multiuser operating systems [VMS, Solaris, HP/UX, AIX, *BSD, PRIMOS, etc.] but I don't know of any that are popular among consumers besides Linux. And Linux's popularity predates OS X by quite a bit.
Yeah, I'd have to agree, Linux was the first proper multiuser OS that I ever really used... now multiuser is the norm for me with OSX...
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I really can't be arsed to waste my money or time with mobiles. Why do people rave on about them? They depriciate like a Lexus, they break all the time and everything is so fiddily.
To me a phone is a phone and that's what I use it for.
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tokyoracer wrote:
I really can't be arsed to waste my money or time with mobiles. Why do people rave on about them? They depriciate like a Lexus, they break all the time and everything is so fiddily.
To me a phone is a phone and that's what I use it for.
Why do people rave on about anything? Because they are interested in it, thats why. And peoples interest aren´t always the same.. I can imagine there are millions of people wondering why some people rave on about the Amiga.. :-)
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tokyoracer wrote:
I really can't be arsed to waste my money or time with mobiles. Why do people rave on about them? They depriciate like a Lexus, they break all the time and everything is so fiddily.
To me a phone is a phone and that's what I use it for.
hey hey... the one I got from my grandmother: http://www.asns14.dsl.pipex.com/images/Belgian/Belgian_desk_facing_right.jpg
:-)
Tom UK
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tokyoracer wrote:
I really can't be arsed to waste my money or time with mobiles. Why do people rave on about them? They depriciate like a Lexus, they break all the time and everything is so fiddily.
To me a phone is a phone and that's what I use it for.
Yes... you want a phone... get a phone... I want a fully integrated mobile personal life style computing device... so I got the iPhone :-)
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I have an iPhone and I love it. Can't wait for the 2.0 update...
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One device, three functions, phone, mp3 player and GPS. I like it!
(http://new.disneyecho.emuck.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/clapping.gif)
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So I take it the GPS is a new improved feature over the old iPhone, right? I wonder what the old iPhones will have feature wise with the 2.0 update.
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amigadave wrote:
Who here is thinking of getting a new cell phone on July 11th?
I'm already waiting to make the switch. Spent 1.5 hours playing with one yesterday in an Apple store and will have one as soon as able (I may be on travel on the 11th).
Wayne
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Nlandas wrote:
Steve Jobs is far worse than Bill Gates.
I am quite happy with my free with contract Treo.
How in the bleep could you POSSIBLY come up with the idea that Jobs is worse than Bill Gates???
I had a treo (650) once. Was even asked to write a review on it and couldn't bother because I had ZERO nice to say about it. Couldn't stand the thing.
It kept mysteriously turning the phone off every time it lost digital signal. Palm said "thanks for the money" and refused to even bother looking at it.
Wayne
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tokyoracer wrote:
I really can't be arsed to waste my money or time with mobiles. Why do people rave on about them? They depriciate like a Lexus, they break all the time and everything is so fiddily.
To me a phone is a phone and that's what I use it for.
Ordinarily, I would agree with you. I bought my PEBL because it was a damned good phone and not much else. Now, just two years later, it's acting all squirrely and like it's about to die anyway, so now's a good time for me.
In the last two years, I've also found that I'm pretty much carrying both the phone, and the video iPod around everywhere I go (on the bike, in the truck, at work, etc), and with the new job, I need to be able to e-mail from anywhere, so to me, it just makes sense.
Plus, the damned thing's just so cool that for $200, I might as well. The only thing I wish is that it had more memory, or at least a slot for a mem card for videos/mp3's.
Wayne
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Yep, they gave in and put gps in it rather than trying to use mobile towers.
(http://3ec.us/creatingfun/imgs/albums/aliens/alien105.thumb.gif)
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So has the real cost of iPhone come down yet? The two year contract sucks behind. Isn't it something like 6-7x the price of the HW itself?
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No, indeed the 3G plan is likely to cost $10 (10x24 = $240) more than the 2G plan...although you're paying for 3G speed...and 3G coverage ain't ubiquitousl in the States either.
Another rumor is that you'll no longer get free SMS bundled in the data plan...$5, $10 or $20 a month more...
Me..I can't wait...selling my 2G iPhone, sold my 5th gen iPod...getting ready for a nice shiny 16GB 3G iPhone...been a happy iPhone user for almost a year now ..in fact I'd be happy to fork over $100 more for 32GB :D
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Uh oh. Ok I'll continue to use my 9 eur 3G broadband then ;-)
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I can't be arsed to drop the money on a locked-out status gadget. I have my Sony Ericsson K790a, and it's been worth every penny. It's a couple of years old, but has a 3.2mp camera with flash, 4GB memory card, EDGE networking, fully unlocked Bluetooth, and it runs Java applications.
Sure, EDGE isn't as fast as 3G, but I don't really need the extra speed, and I'm only paying $20/mo for unlimited service. That comes to an end once I go 3G, then it's $60/mo :-(
The email client checks my IMAP accounts so I can stay on top of customer emails, and it supports SMTP w/AUTH and TLS/SSL. I use the RSS reader to monitor National Hurricane Center and NOAA feeds. It has a pretty good browser, and I augment that with Opera Mini. With the Bluetooth I can connect to a set of headphones, or the receiver connected to my car stereo for musical enjoyment. I lament lacking a built-in GPS, but I do have a Bluetooth unit that works very well. I have a good dozen or so useful Java apps installed as well.
I can use Bluetooth or a USB cable to print pictures and other objects directly to a printer.
I can stash music or video in various formats on the 4GB card or the 70MB internal memory. The calendar and contacts synchronize with my laptop via Bluetooth, which is invaluable for my business. This is my personal and professional lifestyle manager.
I'm looking forward to the C902: faster processor, more memory options, 5mp camera, 3G, and a GPS.
I see the attractiveness of the iPhone. I'll say this for Apple, it's genius with UIs. But I prefer unlocked feature sets.
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Nlandas wrote:
Is that Troll bait? Because I for one won't own a product by Apple if they paid me. Steve Jobs is far worse than Bill Gates.
Jeez! Unless you pull your head back really hard... you won't see the sunshine any time soon...
Back to some positivity:
Ronald Nicholson (http://www.sothius.com/hypertxt/welcome.html?./additional/a1000signatures.html & http://www.nicholson.com/rhn/photo-cv.html) was spotted at this year's WWDC 2008 (http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/), and he's now an iPhone developer!
Glad to see some sensibility around!
OH, and BTW Nlandas:
You'd better thank Steve Jobs, because as recounted by Ronald Nicholson himself, it was something that Steve said about the Macintosh that caused Ronald to leave Apple (*) and join Jay Miner and create the Amiga 1000! (**)
* Ronald designed/worked on some of the chips of the Apple II, Macintosh, most of the chips in the Amiga, and your Nintento 64. He's an unsung hero and a legend, without whom we'd not have our lovely Amigas!
** This story will be told in detail one day.
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I'm only paying $20/mo for unlimited service. That comes to an end once I go 3G, then it's $60/mo
Ouchie. How fast is that 3G? I think 2/1mbit would be something like that around here. [EDIT] Ah, no, it's 46 usd/mo. [/EDIT]
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I can't be arsed to drop the money on a locked-out status gadget.
Well, unlock it then... ziphone.org
I'd love to know what percentage of iPhone 1.0s are jailbroken and unlocked... I would guess it's over 50% given the people I know with one (although I do move in mostly geek circles!)
You're happy with your phone for your reasons. I'm happy with the iPhone. I'll be even happier with the iPhone 2 for the simple addition of GPS :-)
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unlock it then
Apparently you're forced to sign the 2 year deal at purchase time, so the unlocking does little good.
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With me, I have T-mobile which is sometimes spotty service at best. I pay $39.99 +tax for 1500 nationwide anytime minutes. I have no texting, no 'net, no extras. To add the extras, it would be $25.00/month, bringing the total to $64.99 + tax.
For $59.00 +tax (I have the "iPhone plans" booklet in front of me), I get 900 anytime minutes PLUS rollover and all the bells and whistles from AT&T. I use, normally, around 500 minutes per month on average, meaning each month, my available minutes would increase by 400 or so with the rollover.
Now, do I "need" Internet and all that on my phone? Hell no, though I do send text messages (at 15 cents each) quite a bit. What I want however is to combine the things normally found in my pocket into one, single device whenever possible, and $200 (even $300) is a small price to pay for that as far as gadgets go.
Sadly, I have to point out that this is where Amiga should have gone to begin with...
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Wayne wrote:
With me, I have T-mobile which is sometimes spotty service at best.
I should also point out that in my area, AT&T is the only company that gets service inside my building at work, which is also a plus.
Wayne
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Um, those prices don't include tax? That 46 for 2/1mbit does, so if you want to compare, adjust accordingly.
I think I've never seen "no service" msg. The worst I've seen has been some delay when sending some new year texts.
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Piru wrote:
Um, those prices don't include tax?
Which prices? The phone, or the service plans?
Prices are never shown with tax, because tax varies from place to place. Also, service plans for phones ALWAYS have additional fees, such as FCC fee, 911 (emergency number) fees, etc.
On average, due to the federal and state government, I end up paying about $6.00 or so per month extra for assorted taxes and federal fees, meaning my $40 plan is more like $45 to $48 per month depending on how many text messages I use, or if I call information looking for a number ($1.00 charge)
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3G :lol: :lol: :lol:
I have had a 3G phone for about 4 or 5 years now
I would get an Iphone, but apart from the niffty touch interface it is still way behind my Nokia N95 on lots of things
I pay £30 a month for 1000 texts, 300 mins to anyone (mobile or landline) £5 free downloads, 50 MMS, 50 video minutes,and unlimited internet.
can the iphone do video calling or video recording yet ?
I was amazed when i tried logging into my companies remote access on my N95 and found outlook webmail worked on it flawless
Suppose its all a matter of choice, but until Apple catches up with UK phones in new technology ( how old is 3G now) and things like near dvd quality video recording, 5m camera etc etc etc then I really dont see the point for the price.
Im sure nokia will bring out a fully touchscreen phone soon and wipe the floor with apple
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One of my fave uk sites puts it brilliantly
Linky (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/science-%26-technology/apple-to-fool-public-for-207th-time-200806091008/)
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I'm not saying the iPhone is the be all, end-all of phones/personal devices. Not even close really, and yeah, I'd LOVE to be able to do video calling from it, but for me, it's about replacing my currently failing phone, with one that has an interface that I truly believe I'll enjoy using.
Wayne
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@ Wayne
If you have not already got one then thats fair enough, as I said its all personal choice. But rushing out to buy a new one when you already got one, just cause its got 3G and a few little extras is nuts if you ask me.
We all know there will eb a new one, with a better a camera or some other upgrade in time for xmas
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Cute parody there JJ.
Just like computers, there's always something better/bigger/faster around the corner. I would suspect, if anything, that before Christmas they'd release a 32GB or maybe even a 64GB iPhone. If my current phone holds out for a few more months, I may just wait to buy one but here's the thing...
I paid more than $200 for my current video Ipod, so to me, the idea of combining it with a phone for $200 (or even $300) is rather cool.
Reasons I have decided to buy one..
- comparably priced phone plan with better coverage
- current Moto PEBL is dying
- needed second iPod for the truck anyway. (put one on bike, put one in truck)
- gets rid of the need to lug the ipod between the bike, the truck, and work.
- adds a portable GPS device that I can use on the bike, replacing the one that's there now, meaning I may be able to sell my Garmin to help subsidize the cost of the phone. (won't know if it's worthy until I get one)
Wayne
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JJ wrote:
@ Wayne
If you have not already got one then thats fair enough, as I said its all personal choice. But rushing out to buy a new one when you already got one, just cause its got 3G and a few little extras is nuts if you ask me
I would absolutely agree. If I already had an iPhone and had sunk in the initial $400 to $700 to own one (which is insane), I'd never bother considering an upgrade of the hardware.
Wayne
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IF the GPS on the new iphone is anything like the Nokia GPS, then it wont replace a dedicated sat nav. Its more a handy tool is a pickle rather than something to rely on.
But the Iphone one might kick arse
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Piru wrote:
I'm only paying $20/mo for unlimited service. That comes to an end once I go 3G, then it's $60/mo
Ouchie. How fast is that 3G? I think 2/1mbit would be something like that around here. [EDIT] Ah, no, it's 46 usd/mo. [/EDIT]
The only reason I'm paying $20/mo is because I am grand-fathered in with an OLD (like five years ago) unlimited plan. I had the fore-sight back then to know that I would be using data on my phone and a $20 plan would be a wise thing to lock in. The cheapest data plan AT&T has in the US for unlimited data is around $60/mo, maybe a little less if you have a CrackBerry, but you also pay for the CrackBerry email service.
I'm not sure how fast AT&T's 3G is, 2.1Mb or 3.xMb. Most of the SonyEricsson 3G phones do UMTS and HSDPA, so we'd be looking at 3.6Mb/s or better. I can see how that would be nice for remote server admin whether RDP or SSH, but EDGE works well enough for me at around 200kb/s to stick to the $20 plan ;-) I remind people how, not that long ago, I did admin over dial-up and ISDN.
EDIT: AT&T has made it perfectly clear to me that my $20 plan does not cover 3G.
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Wayne wrote:
Nlandas wrote:
Steve Jobs is far worse than Bill Gates.
I am quite happy with my free with contract Treo.
How in the bleep could you POSSIBLY come up with the idea that Jobs is worse than Bill Gates???
I had a treo (650) once. Was even asked to write a review on it and couldn't bother because I had ZERO nice to say about it. Couldn't stand the thing.
It kept mysteriously turning the phone off every time it lost digital signal. Palm said "thanks for the money" and refused to even bother looking at it.
Wayne
Easily, read some history from people who have dealt with Steve Jobs in the business industry. He stole most of his "good" ideas as well. He's also lied for years to sell his product. The term, "Snake Oil salesman" comes to mind.
Treo 650, hmmmm, don't know I had the Treo 600 and 680. There were some bugs in the battery meter on the 680 that were a pain. I did cut Palm a lot of slack on that one but Apple isn't any better. We've dealt with flaws in iPods, iPhones, Macs, etc. Apple takes the same stance. "Pound Salt."
-Nyle
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All you iPhone people take a close look at the extra contract cost on the new iPhone. Guess what, the hardware may be cheaper but on average you're looking at a lot of additional data contract charges.
There is the smooth marketing ploys again.
LOOK! The new iPhone, LESS EXPENSIVE than ever before.
Just don't look at the fine print okay.
-Nyle
Fortune.com ->
"The average iPhone user however, runs up a $100 tab each month due to the higher priced data and calling plan. This would give AT&T an even quicker payback on its $200 outlay. But AT&T doesn’t get to keep all the money it collects from its iPhone users. Unlike most other phonemakers (but like BlackBerry maker Research in Motion (RIMM)) Apple has a revenue-sharing arrangement that requires telcos like AT&T to pay somewhere between 9% and 25% of the money collected each month from iPhone users."
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Nlandas wrote:
All you iPhone people take a close look at the extra contract cost on the new iPhone. Guess what, the hardware may be cheaper but on average you're looking at a lot of additional data contract charges.
There are no additional charges in the UK. The tariffs are exactly the same as they are with the original iPhone. They have also added a cheaper option at £30 per month (£5 less than the previous cheapest) which has reduced inclusive minutes and text messages. All UK tariffs for the iPhone have unlimited data - there are no additional data charges.
--
moto
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I used old Apple products a lot, when I had no choice. Had some good points, but so many bad points.
I didn't use Apple for a number of years, and was really looking forward to using OSX. I have had to provide support for OSX quite a bit over the past year, and I have to say it is one of the worst computing experiences of my life.
I think the main good thing that Apple has done recently, is their user interfaces. They have not been in teh least bit innovative with their fundamental technologies. They have done some interfaces which a lot of people can feel comfortable with. I think the iPhone interface is great. However, I have no problem with a more complicated, low cost interface for the same functionality.
Unfortunately, the OSX interface cripples some good underlying technology. I have found so many problems with the automated, and high level behaviour of the OS, that I really can't stand to use it. In particular, OSX's attempts to manage network protocols is just simply wrong, and wrong in some really fundamental ways. As a communications engineer, this really pissed me off when I had to use some OSX machines on various networks. I don't know how the programmers could get away with screwing it up in that way. Being Apple, of course, they make it painful to override anything the OS decides is right.
I also can't stand the current finder. POS.
I need low level access in any machine I use, as I invariably make my machines do non standard things. This is not impossible with OSX, but it is painful.
The alternative OS products have their problems too, but they are much easier for me to work around.
Meh. Apple is a great marketing machine, and has had some great interface design work, but just way too painful for me to work with.
edit- I should qualify my comments by saying that I think Apple products can be really excellent for users who use their technology in very standard ways, that the Apple designers intended them for. This includes use of particular software and hardware. However, I believe that a computer should be flexible, and Apple have never provided ease of flexibility - they make one work too hard for it.
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motorollin wrote:
Nlandas wrote:
All you iPhone people take a close look at the extra contract cost on the new iPhone. Guess what, the hardware may be cheaper but on average you're looking at a lot of additional data contract charges.
There are no additional charges in the UK.
Must be the Apple minions are smarter in the UK. The AT&T model is going to charge more for data. Just be sure to read the full contract with the new iPhone.
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Quick tip but for all your iPhone updates, if you don't already visit here - Gizmodo (http://gizmodo.com/).
They cover every little tidbit in gory detail.
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@Nlandas,
You sound like someone that just has an axe to grind with Apple and would not be satisfied with anything they do, hence your comments are not objective. You don't like Apple and Steve Jobs, fine, that is your choice, but you are not going to convince me that Apple/Steve Jobs is evil and must be avoided in all instances.
@Oliver,
I agree that Apple products are not for everyone, and particularly not for the geek squad that has the technical smarts to want low level control of every electronic gadget they own, but you are in the minority and most people want Apple or Microsoft to control how their computers, printers, mp3 players, stereos, video cameras, still digital cameras, TVs, etc. work and communicate with each other. As I wrote before, most of us just want all those items to work as advertized without hardly any user intervention. We just want to use them without having to struggle configuring this or that to enjoy them or accomplish a task that the tool was intended to do for us.
Look at why most of the world has chose an inferior product like Windows for so long. Partly it was that they could not cope with the alternatives that took more knowledge and expertise that only people like yourself had learned. If everyone was like you, Linux would have over taken Windows by now. It looks just as nice as Windows, works with most hardware, but not all, provides almost all the functionality of Windows and it is FREE
Apple understands the fact that most people don't want to tinker with and configure their computers and they cater to that, they have no intention of trying to change to satisfy the small group of computer users that want to alter the way the system works. They are targeting the masses and use any marketing they can to attract more market share, including claims that are not completely accurate at times, but that is true of almost every company out there of any kind, they all exaggerate some time. Don't blame them for being better at marketing lies to those that don't know better.
Back on topic, I think the 3G iPhone looks like a great product and plan to get one as soon as I can because I think it will fit well into my lifestyle and work well with my laptop, iPod, Carputer and soon my Dell tower if I can Hack-intosh it, or as the iPhone comes standard, I believe it will still integrate with a Windows PC as well as my other Macs. As I stated before, I want simplicity and ease of use when it comes to my cell phone and mobile PDA/mp3 player/web enabled device. I have not seen or heard of any other product that does what the 3G iPhone can, so it is an easy decision for me, specially with the price drop that puts it at or below other smart phones out there.
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Well we've been waiting for the Openmoko Freerunner but that costs twice as much and is six months late...
(http://forums.eu.atari.com/images/smilies/kc.gif)
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Nlandas wrote:
Must be the Apple minions are smarter in the UK. The AT&T model is going to charge more for data. Just be sure to read the full contract with the new iPhone.
... and how do you know that, considering neither the phone, nor the plan have been made public yet?
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Nlandas wrote:
Must be the Apple minions are smarter in the UK. The AT&T model is going to charge more for data. Just be sure to read the full contract with the new iPhone.
For f**ks sake, we get it. You don't like Apple. You made your point in your first post. Perhaps an experiment in self-control would be a good idea.
For all the talk of 'Apple minions' and 'Apple Zealots', it seems to me that you are far more rabid in your anti-Apple beliefs.
The fact of the matter is, as far as OSes go, we've come a very long way from the dark days of Windows 98 and Mac OS 8. There really isn't a huge amount wrong. Yeah, things don't always work as we would like, but really is everything that big nightmare people make it out to be. Firing anectdotes about bad experiences of each OS back and forth really doesn't mean dick in the grand scheme of things.
Some people like Macs, some people like Windows/Linux PC - get the f**k over it.
:pissed: Rant Over :pissed:
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What nobody here is waiting for Android?
:eek:
(/me runs and hides)
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amigadave wrote:...
@Oliver
and most people want Apple or Microsoft to control how their computers,...
I agree with what you are saying, and I also think it is a really good design goal to have technology just provide functionality to the user, without the need to control the technology itself. I think this would be great if it actually worked correctly. However, some of the high level behaviour of OSX does not work correctly at all, and has some fundamental errors which should really not occur.
Even this kind of error is tolerable (it is a big system, with ambitious endeavours, and some issues are to be expected), if you can have reasonable low level access to work around the errors. Working around these problems, as usual with the Apple design approach, is rather more difficult than it should be.
Although a lot of praise is given to Apple's user interface designs, I find them difficult to work with, as they don't offer me easy access to the controls I need to use. I really liked the old Amiga approach, where most things worked fairly well at a high level (relative to what was available at the time), and there was also really good low level access to those who wanted it.
This is one major reason why I don't like using OSX.
There are other reasons why I don't like it, but these are more a matter of personal preference.
Overall, I do think their computer products are overpriced, and underperforming, but they provide something which a lot of people are happy to pay for.
I do respect Apple's marketing. Very slick. Again, on a personal note, I just don't like this kind of slick marketing. The marketing is fine, in itself, but I do think real information should be available for those who want it.
As for iPods, I get frequently annoyed by people who think the technology is really innovative. This is probably a really good testament to the success of the marketing. I think iPod's are well made, and very pleasantly simple, which I think is appropriate for that kind of product. The sound quality is pretty good, but I think a little overrated.
My quite limited experience of the iPhone is very positive. I think it's very well designed. Easy to use. For me, the advantage over my dirt cheap Sony Ericsson is very slim.
Anyway, that's just me.
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@Oliver:
I don't know HOW you tried using Macs and OSX, but as a hardcore techie, I've found it anything BUT an obstacle to work with them. There's Terminal, and that gives me a gateway to the world of Unix/BSD/XNU/Darwin, and that's just about anything an Amiga and Linux geek could ever ask for.
I'm especially confused about what you say as far as networking protocols, especially in light of the fact that OSX uses 100% openly supported protocols. There's almost NOTHING proprietary other than AFP (Apple File Protocol).
Lastly, almost *all* the hardcore computer geeks in the Silicon Valley (and if that doesn't mean much to you, well then there's no sense in continuing this) are using Macs and OSX. You'd think they'd know something, right?
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amigadave wrote:
I agree that Apple products are not for everyone, and particularly not for the geek squad that has the technical smarts to want low level control of every electronic gadget
That's such a myth and IT HAS TO STOP RIGHT NOW. I don't know about you, but I breathe technology everyday, hardcore, and I've not had any problems using OSX and Apple products. Granted the older Mac OS (pre-OSX) wasn't that hacker friendly, but as far as I'm concerned give me Linux or OSX, or even Amiga OS, it's the same thing. Just don't give me Windows. Now *that* makes you jump through some real hoops to tweak to your heart's content (without Cygnus, you're handicapped).
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@Oliver:
my previous post to you was for your first post. This is for your second.
Your posts (both) are full of vagaries: you talk about high level features that don't work, but you don't explain which ones you're talking about. Frankly, they ALL work, but you won't accept that. There's a chip somewhere on your shoulder.
However, what I wanted to stress here is something that you and most people who've never used a Mac, always miss, and it's understandable, because if you didn't, you wouldn't be talking (or at least saying what you're saying). HOWEVER, the vast majority of people DON'T MISS IT. They GET IT. Inexplicably you articulated it perfectly, yet you still don't see it.
Here's what they get, and you don't:
Oliver wrote:
I think iPod's are well made, and very pleasantly simple, which I think is appropriate for that kind of product.
It's *REALLY* tough to make something simple, yet good, yet powerful, yet complete. Apple excels at this, and believe me (or anyone): it takes a lot of very hard work and some extremely impressive individuals to achieve this. Not many companies can claim this ability.
And frankly, THAT is what makes their products sell, my friend. Marketing works too, but if the products were crap, they wouldn't sell and have the high satisfaction rates they do:
http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/04/01/iphone-scores-79-in-customer-satisfaction-survey-rim-trails-at-54/
http://www.gadgetell.com/tech/comment/apple-rim-take-top-honors-for-cellphone-satisfaction-palm-pulls-in-the-rear/
(search for key word "satisfaction" in the below link)
http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/09/steve-jobs-keynote-live-from-wwdc-2008/
http://www.vendorrate.com/Vendors/Apple+Inc
And last but not least, developers seem to be invigorated once again:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Design_Awards#2008_Winners
I dare you to spend some time looking at the winners of the design awards and their software. You see, good technology inspires good products. This should be vividly familiar to any Amigan who lived the early days of the Amiga and Commodore.
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The real cost of a $199 iphone is almost $2000 over 18 months! For a lousy phone? Some people have more money than sense!
Ah... I see. As an Amiga user you are used to paying over the odds for hardware etc. And in a Helsinki syndrome sort of way you feel an on going need to get ripped off... it all becomes clear... the 3G iPhone is an Amiga in disguise, at least from a cost point of view.. interesting. ;-)
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@alexh
That additional cost also gets you unlimited data and more inclusive minutes and text messages than I personally could ever use within a month. There are many, many phones which require you to take out a contract. The iPhone isn't unique in that respect.
--
moto
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motorollin wrote:
@alexh
That additional cost also gets you unlimited data and more inclusive minutes and text messages than I personally could ever use within a month. There are many, many phones which require you to take out a contract. The iPhone isn't unique in that respect.
I couldn't agree with Moto more! My original plan was to buy the iPhone, unlock it, use it on my existing Orange Contract.
But when I looked into the Orange Data Contracts, they were £30 per month with a 30Meg per month limit (on top of my existing £30per month plan)... With O2 I get something like (I forget the asctual figures now) 500 mins and 500 text per month and unlimited Data for £35... and given that I regularly hit 800meg download per month on the iPhone... I thought the O2 deal was pretty good.
I'm dumping Orange at the end of this month and moving my Business account to O2... with, an iPhone 3G :-)
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@da9000
I didn't want to get into specifics, because I didn't want an argument. I guess that didn't work.
As I mentioned, I haven't used OSX a lot, but what I have done with it, I found to be a pain.
I can offer you some specifics if you really would like to hear it. I am definitely not going to bother listing all the problems I have found with Apple products.
Please understand that I am neither anti-Apple, nor pro-Windows. I have found more annoyances with Macintosh products than I would like to pay the Apple price for, and will not be buying any soon. I did wish to point out that the 'it just works' claim is flawed.
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da9000 wrote:
amigadave wrote:
I agree that Apple products are not for everyone, and particularly not for the geek squad that has the technical smarts to want low level control of every electronic gadget
That's such a myth and IT HAS TO STOP RIGHT NOW. I don't know about you, but I breathe technology everyday, hardcore, and I've not had any problems using OSX and Apple products. Granted the older Mac OS (pre-OSX) wasn't that hacker friendly, but as far as I'm concerned give me Linux or OSX, or even Amiga OS, it's the same thing. Just don't give me Windows. Now *that* makes you jump through some real hoops to tweak to your heart's content (without Cygnus, you're handicapped).
I just want to lend my support to da9000 here! I would have to say that Pre OSX the Mac was the worst machine you could use... the OS was clunky, limited, unstable and a real relic of the 80's... Windows95/98 was vastly superior... But with the move to OSX, suddenly Apple gave me a werking stable OS, that was nice and user friendly (as I was used to with Amiga), with a system that didn't need constant maintainance... Plus I also got all the Unix tools I had become accustomed to with Linux...
I never really got networking to work properly with Windows (it was a case to trying eveything until something worked and then never touching it again), but never had a problem in Linux or OSX (networking is a breeze in OSX 10.4 and 10.5).
When Apple moved to intel CPUs finally they became competitive... Something Apple has never been before.
-Edit- The "It just works" holds true as a Professional Music user... All my various bit of Hardware and Software work perfectly without the near endless config one must do when using a Windows machine... Also as a home user who really doesn't want to mess around, but wants to switch on, and do something productive... it also works perfectly. Apple have got the user experience right... and that is what you pay for...
If you've not used OSX 10.4 (I'm not so impressed 10.5 yet :-) ) on an intel Mac then you might not have had such a good experience... but the modern machines are great :-)
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A friend of mine has an IPhone and yes, the interface is nice and it's as slick as a freshly buttered willy entering a horny woman, but it's still too big a willy for my liking.
I'm happy with my new Nokia =).
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alexh wrote:
The real cost of a $199 iphone is almost $2000 over 18 months! For a lousy phone? Some people have more money than sense!
I don't understand your logic at all. Are you, or are you not going to have a cellphone during that same 24 months? Most of us have resigned ourselves to the fact that we will always have a cellphone bill. For some, like myself, I use it as my only phone, so your logic is flawed.
Over the next two years, I will always have a cellphone, and it's generally cheaper to have a phone under contract than a "go-phone" (pre-paid or monthly without contract) type, so where exactly am I losing my senses?
If you buy any cellphone, you can't count the cost of the contract, because if you're like 99% of us, you'll have a contract anyway, meaning that even if you get a "free" phone, it still costs you the same amount during the two years.
I'm just electing to buy a $200 "better phone" than get the freebie they give away with a contract.
Wayne
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motorollin wrote:
There are many, many phones which require you to take out a contract. The iPhone isn't unique in that respect.
But you can get a decent contract for 1/3rd the price of an iPhone contract.
In the UK for example you can get a free handset + 200 mins (to any network) + 200 txts per month for £10 ($20) per month.
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Wayne wrote:
Are you, or are you not going to have a cellphone during that same 24 months?
That's a good question indeed. What happens if you loose this hi-tech-musthave-shiny-geek-phallus-symbol or if it gets stolen (not that unlikely in 24 months)?
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alexh wrote:
motorollin wrote:
There are many, many phones which require you to take out a contract. The iPhone isn't unique in that respect.
But you can get a decent contract for 1/3rd the price of an iPhone contract.
In the UK for example you can get a free handset + 200 mins (to any network) + 200 txts per month for £10 ($20) per month.
And get some clunky phone I don't really want? No thanks. I'd rather pay the extra and get an iPhone. It's worth paying for IMO and in my experience.
--
moto
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Colani1200 wrote:
Wayne wrote:
Are you, or are you not going to have a cellphone during that same 24 months?
That's a good question indeed. What happens if you loose this hi-tech-musthave-shiny-geek-phallus-symbol or if it gets stolen (not that unlikely in 24 months)?
Obviously you get it replaced by your insurance, as you would with any valuable item you lost or was stolen.
--
moto
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I'm not sure that it is that easy, as you can't buy one without contract (at least where I live).
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alexh wrote:
motorollin wrote:
There are many, many phones which require you to take out a contract. The iPhone isn't unique in that respect.
But you can get a decent contract for 1/3rd the price of an iPhone contract.
In the UK for example you can get a free handset + 200 mins (to any network) + 200 txts per month for £10 ($20) per month.
Well, for that £10... you get a basic mobile Phone... not a PDA/iPod/Phone... Remember that for £35, I not only get 500mins and 500Text (or there abouts, Moto might remember) and UNLIMITED data, that's the crunch here... the iPhone is VERY data heavy... what with Emails, internet, you tube, and (on the G3) Push calender... I easily download about 800Megs per month... on any other contract that would cost me something like an extra £400 per month...
Ok, I had to pay for my iPhone (£260, if memory serves), but the contract was a good deal... I was happy to pay to be an early user, the iPhone has been great fun... and I needed to replace my old HP iPAQ PDA, so the iPhone wasn't really much of a price hit for me.
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well, i'm happy with my (free) 3G nokia 6120 classic on payg. no line rental/monthly fee, £2.50 for 5 days unlimited data. and a fairly open dev comunity, so loads of apps...
i was well impressed with streaming TV from a home machine via orb over 3G while traveling on the train to and from work. audio is solid, video just slows down or hiccups on cell changes, but stays in sync.
3G tears into the battery life though :-D .
plus it runs quake as fast or faster than my PPC A1200 :lol: haven't tried quake2 yet...
word on the street is that in the US, verizon is going to limit the 3G iPhone to 1.4Mb in order to not strain the network backbone with a garrenteed high selling device. plus the side effect of improving battery life ;-)
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motorollin wrote:
And get some clunky phone I don't really want? No thanks. I'd rather pay the extra and get an iPhone. It's worth paying for IMO and in my experience.
Another weak minded Jedi sucked in by the marketing of the Dark side ;-)
£35/month is too much to pay for any private mobile phone contract.
bloodline wrote:
I easily download about 800Megs per month [on my iPhone]...
Doing what?
What is worse, you're a Londoner.. in the city you're never more than a few feet from a free WiFi hotspot?
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alexh wrote:
bloodline wrote:
I easily download about 800Megs per month [on my iPhone]...
Doing what?
A.org mostly :-D Well, I'm always checking various web sites... I'm almost always on Wikipedia... I reviece lots of Emails, from various people, quite a lot of work is sent to me via Email, which includes PDFs, Album/promo artwork, spreadsheets word documents, and obviously music files, a lot of music files...
I use You Tube to check out artists and to find songs that I want to hear...
I use the wetter app (my iPhone is in German :-D) to check the weather... and the Karten app (Google Maps) to find out where my next meeting is... I also use my iPhone to take test shots location scouts and then Email them to various people (though that is upstream rather than downstream)... Plus when I had my iPhone jailbroken, I ran VNC to control my Mac at home :-)
The iPhone is VERY data heavy...
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That's a good question indeed. What happens if you loose this hi-tech-musthave-shiny-geek-phallus-symbol or if it gets stolen (not that unlikely in 24 months)?
Most phone companies provide you with insurance for like $5.00 per month or so. Granted over 2 years, that's like $120 but it beats buying a replacement $200 phone -- regardless of who makes it (nokia, samsung, t-mobile, apple, etc). Smart phones, like the iPhone all generally cost the same amount (not counting "please switch to xyz rebates"), so I'm not shocked at a $200 phone any more.
Wayne
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But surely a lot of the time you're at your desk at work, library / computer room at university or at home? Where you can use a computer and land line broadband?
And when you get email, surely you dont download the attachments to the iPhone? Most will be unusable?
Even when I am out I tend to use WiFi in one of the pubs rather than "Dial up". More and more pubs are offering it.
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alexh wrote:
What is worse, you're a Londoner.. in the city you're never more than a few feet from a free WiFi hotspot?
:lol: Well the O2 Contract does include free "The Cloud" Wi-Fi connection, that proves good in pubs and in the docklands... But most of the time I'm not near a Free or Cloud Wi-Fi point...
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alexh wrote:
£35/month is too much to pay for any private mobile phone contract.
True. Granted, but it is what it is, and it would seem that -- at least in the states -- all of the major carriers are almost identical in pricing when it comes to their full data plans. My T-mobile plan (1500 anytime minutes) is within $5.00 of the AT&T plan by the time I add unlimited data and SMS. Same with Sprint.
The difference, at least for me, is that AT&T seems to be the only carrier that can provide service in my office.
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I have just had an SMS off O2 (phone network in the UK) even though I am not with them.
Offering me the new 3g Iphone 8GB for free on all traiffs over £45.
Ummmmmmmm , no thanks :)
Am I correct that genrally in America that you have to pay for the handset even on contract ?
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I can certainly see the value of the iPhone for someone who needs real mobile connectivity. I just don't. As Alex suggested, I am rarely far from a desktop machine. I certainly don't spend anything like that on my mobile contract.
@Bloodline I guess you do business on the move? I'm in an R&D department, and don't have much need to travel.
How good are the personal organiser functions on the iPhone? Is it really convenient and fully featured? I haven't yet found anything I will use other than desktop apps for this. I only really derive schedules, appointments, meetings from project plans anyway. If it could perform that function well, that would be a lot more attractive to me. As it is, I only use my phone's organiser as a reminder service, synced to desktop apps.
I think I will not be really happy with a PDA until there is robust and convenient handwriting interpretation. So far, I am yet to be really impressed, though I haven't bothered looking in depth for some time.
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JJ wrote:
I have just had an SMS off O2 (phone network in the UK) even though I am not with them.
"an SMS from O2"... sorry to be a grammar pedant, but that's a pet hate of mine.
Offering me the new 3g Iphone 8GB for free on all traiffs over £45.
If you don't need a billion minutes and texts (I cetainly don't... I'm very Email driven)... then it's better to get either the £35 or Pay-as-you-go and just buy the iPhone... it's pretty good value for a touch screen iPod...
Ummmmmmmm , no thanks :)
I agree, get the 16gig instead.
Am I correct that genrally in America that you have to pay for the handset even on contract ?
No idea :-)
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Oliver wrote:
I can certainly see the value of the iPhone for someone who needs real mobile connectivity. I just don't. As Alex suggested, I am rarely far from a desktop machine. I certainly don't spend anything like that on my mobile contract.
@Bloodline I guess you do business on the move? I'm in an R&D department, and don't have much need to travel.
Ahh right, yeah! I'm pretty much on the move all the time... and probably more so, with my current work! I guess the iPhone won't be that useful for you...
How good are the personal organiser functions on the iPhone? Is it really convenient and fully featured? I haven't yet found anything I will use other than desktop apps for this. I only really derive schedules, appointments, meetings from project plans anyway. If it could perform that function well, that would be a lot more attractive to me. As it is, I only use my phone's organiser as a reminder service, synced to desktop apps.
As an organiser, the integrated Email/Kalender is brilliant, With my old HP iPAQ it had Wi-Fi (but the sercurity was always out of date) and it wouldn't live sync over the air, so I had to update using a teather back at home... that basicly kept my PDA one day behind at best and more if I couldn't get home... the iPhone is always up to date, it's always on line, live... great :-)
I can't wait for push and exchange support comming in July, that will make my life even easier... as many companies I work with, use M$ Exchange and the push support will be brillint!
I think I will not be really happy with a PDA until there is robust and convenient handwriting interpretation. So far, I am yet to be really impressed, though I haven't bothered looking in depth for some time.
My HP iPAQ had pretty damn good handwriting software, but I found that what I wanted to achive on the move was not best suited to hand writing... and the WindowsCE mobile interface sucks big time... The iPhone's interface is what really sets it apart... it's the first mobile device has a proper interface designed for mobile computing... I wouldn't want the iPhone interface on my Desktop though... :-)
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JJ wrote:
Am I correct that genrally in America that you have to pay for the handset even on contract ?
All American cellphone companies have a few (5 or 6) model phones that they will provide for new customers "free", but generally those models are very basic phones (not "smart" phones).
The most interesting is some of the smaller blackberry devices that -- after rebate -- run you about $99 USD, but those are for the blackberrys that don't have full keyboards, and for a messaging phone, a full keyboard is an absolute necessity.
I couldn't imagine (for example) trying to send e-mail on a keypad which I had to use "phone speak" on (meaning click the number 2 3-times to get a letter "c", etc)
Wayne
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Wayne wrote:
That's a good question indeed. What happens if you loose this hi-tech-musthave-shiny-geek-phallus-symbol or if it gets stolen (not that unlikely in 24 months)?
Most phone companies provide you with insurance for like $5.00 per month or so. Granted over 2 years, that's like $120 but it beats buying a replacement $200 phone -- regardless of who makes it (nokia, samsung, t-mobile, apple, etc). Smart phones, like the iPhone all generally cost the same amount (not counting "please switch to xyz rebates"), so I'm not shocked at a $200 phone any more.
Not true. AT&T doesn't offer insurance for the iphone. You can get the Apple extended warranty, but that doesn't cover theft or loss. You could put it on your homeowners insurance but I'm guessing your deductible is more than the iphone anyway.
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adolescent wrote:
Not true. AT&T doesn't offer insurance for the iphone. You can get the Apple extended warranty, but that doesn't cover theft or loss.
Chalk that up to the "learn something new every day" quotient. I can only guess, in a situation like this, that if something happens to your phone (any phone, not just an iphone) you back up and try something new, whether buying a replacement off of e-bay or from the manufacturer.
I'd just say "be careful and don't drop the damned thing" but there are always circumstances in real life that you can't do anything about. (spoken as a motorcycle rider)
All you can do is to be careful and maybe buy a protective pouch for it. That, and don't lay it on the table at Burger King and forget about it.
Wayne
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Keep in mind that the AppleCare warranty doesn't cover accidental damage either. So, you really need to be careful. But, now at $200 it's a bit easier to swallow than $400 if something does go wrong.
My two remaining issues with the iPhone are the fact that there is no corporate discount for the plans (I get a 18% discount on any AT&T plan except for any iphone plans!? :crazy:), and the fact that to do a lot of the cool stuff you need to void the warranty. I don't have $200 to gamble really. Hopefully the new software and features will fix this.
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Wayne wrote:
adolescent wrote:
Not true. AT&T doesn't offer insurance for the iphone. You can get the Apple extended warranty, but that doesn't cover theft or loss.
Chalk that up to the "learn something new every day" quotient. I can only guess, in a situation like this, that if something happens to your phone (any phone, not just an iphone) you back up and try something new, whether buying a replacement off of e-bay or from the manufacturer.
We are lucky in the UK... Insurance comes as standard on the iPhone...
Cool thing about teh iPhone is that when you connect it to your Mac, it totally backs it up... so if you plug a new one, it "becomes" your old one :-)
I'd just say "be careful and don't drop the damned thing" but there are always circumstances in real life that you can't do anything about. (spoken as a motorcycle rider)
All you can do is to be careful and maybe buy a protective pouch for it. That, and don't lay it on the table at Burger King and forget about it.
I decided not to hide my beautiful iPhone in a protective case... and I must confess to throwing the thing around like a rag doll... also throwing it accidentially across the Stamford Brook tube station... some how... the unit has survived and not a scratch on it (apart from the plastic bezel)... Glass and Aluminium are damn fine materials to make a phone from :-)
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Tie-in phone deals only became legal in finland year or two ago, and they're only possible for 3G phones. That's why we did't have iPhone (officially) until now.
Speaking of which, technically iPhone 3G isn't really 3G (IIRC the spec demands a front camera). Ok that's nitpicking... :-)
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Piru wrote:
Tie-in phone deals only became legal in finland year or two ago, and they're only possible for 3G phones. That's why we did't have iPhone (officially) until now.
Speaking of which, technically iPhone 3G isn't really 3G (IIRC the spec demands a front camera). Ok that's nitpicking... :-)
And there you have hit upon my one gripe with the iPhone 3G... where is the front Camera? Ok, everyone I know... and I mean EVERYONE, never uses the front camera... A friend showed it to me, in use once, 4 years ago... but it was all jerky and crap... in fact I was speaking with a colegue and he didn't even realise he had a front camera... But I digress... I WANT A FRONT CAMERA ON MY iPHONE!!! :-D
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bloodline wrote:I WANT A FRONT CAMERA ON MY iPHONE!!! :-D
I've always had one, and never used one. I don't really see the point.
A friend got a pair of video phones to talk to his girlfriend in a more personal manner. She would only answer his video calls if she had a chance to get made up for the call (not very often, in practice).
If I am on a mobile, the last thing I want to look at is the phone, as I will generally use it when I am on the go.
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bloodline wrote:
I WANT A FRONT CAMERA ON MY iPHONE!!! :-D
I could see the use for one, but never had one yet with it on it, so the fact the iPhone doesn't have one won't kill me.
Wayne
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Videophones will never take off! I designed the hardware for a dogs-bollocks "smooth as" videophone chipset in 1998, which got canned shortly before it was finished due to a shift in demand.
Why? The vast majority of phone calls are made by women (it's true) and research had shown they just do not like videophones. Apparently they don't want to have to do their makeup and hair or something to answer / make a phone call.
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Sure the Video Phone is a solution for a problem that doesn't exist... Most phone calls I make are often no more than a minute in length... I almost always moving around or doing something else as well as the call, so even if I did have a video link, I wouldn't be able to look at the camera... And sometimes I don't someone to know where I am... or as mentioned, I might be looking like I've just been run over...
So granted, I would almost certainly never ever use a front camera... but that doesn't stop me wanting one... and even demanding one in the next iPhone ;-)
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alexh wrote:
motorollin wrote:
And get some clunky phone I don't really want? No thanks. I'd rather pay the extra and get an iPhone. It's worth paying for IMO and in my experience.
Another weak minded Jedi sucked in by the marketing of the Dark side ;-)
£35/month is too much to pay for any private mobile phone contract.
Indeed. I don't get where these crazy figures are coming from.
I pay £5 a month for unlimited (although in practical terms it's 1GB) 3G data usage, plus some extra free services such as MSN and Skype calls on top of that.
In total, I pay £20 a month, that includes 300 minutes to the missus (and anyone else on the same network) and 300 minutes or texts to anyone else (1 text = 1 minute). And I got a half decent free phone in the deal (18 month contract)
All in all I'm paying about the same as I was on pay-as-you-go but getting much more use out of the phone (especially as I was being charged £3 a meg for data!!!!!)
What is worse, you're a Londoner..
Now I've got a mental image of Bloodline dressed up as a Pearly King singing "Roll Out the Barrels"... :-o
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bloodline wrote:
Sure the Video Phone is a solution for a problem that doesn't exist... Most phone calls I make are often no more than a minute in length... I almost always moving around or doing something else as well as the call, so even if I did have a video link, I wouldn't be able to look at the camera... And sometimes I don't someone to know where I am... or as mentioned, I might be looking like I've just been run over...
So granted, I would almost certainly never ever use a front camera... but that doesn't stop me wanting one... and even demanding one in the next iPhone ;-)
And they're good for taking pics of yourself for an avatar right? ;-)
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uncharted wrote:
bloodline wrote:
Sure the Video Phone is a solution for a problem that doesn't exist... Most phone calls I make are often no more than a minute in length... I almost always moving around or doing something else as well as the call, so even if I did have a video link, I wouldn't be able to look at the camera... And sometimes I don't someone to know where I am... or as mentioned, I might be looking like I've just been run over...
So granted, I would almost certainly never ever use a front camera... but that doesn't stop me wanting one... and even demanding one in the next iPhone ;-)
And they're good for taking pics of yourself for an avatar right? ;-)
Well, I have to find some use for the, ultimately pointless, built in 'webcam' that my MBP has... :-D
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uncharted wrote:
What is worse, you're a Londoner..
Now I've got a mental image of Bloodline dressed up as a Pearly King singing "Roll Out the Barrels"... :-o
(http://www.shoutmouth.com/index.php/images/der/L3Zhci93d3cvc2l0ZXMvbWVkaWEuc2hvdXRtb3V0aC5jb20vaHRtbC9kZXJpdnMvMDg4ZGM3NTQ2MTNlNTFiNWJlMGE0ZDM5ZDFhZTQwMWQtZWJkYjc0N2ZmNDNiOWRkMTYyZjE1NzI0MzJiMTA1MzYuanBn.jpg)
What?
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alexh wrote:
The vast majority of phone calls are made by women (it's true) and research had shown they just do not like videophones. Apparently they don't want to have to do their makeup and hair or something to answer / make a phone call.
I can relate ;-)
--
moto
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uncharted wrote:
And they're good for taking pics of yourself for an avatar right? ;-)
And watching yourself violate socks ;-)
--
moto
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motorollin wrote:
uncharted wrote:
And they're good for taking pics of yourself for an avatar right? ;-)
And watching yourself violate socks ;-)
--
moto
Well... At least record the wanton act of self abuse for posterity...
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When they first rolled out 3G, must be 5 years ago now. The ad was a couple who stripped for each other in front of the phone...
(http://yelims4.free.fr/Ordinateur/Ordinateur01.gif)
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I couldn't resist... so I have bought an iPhone 3G and I like it a lot! It's way better than my Siemens sl45i.
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I this I that....not me..quite happy with my palm based Treo :-D
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Not me either. I was actually looking forward to the new iphone, but the now >$70/month minimum plan (data, 450 minutes, 5000 night and weekend, no text) turned me off. I'll stick to my old dumb phone or get a more capable smart phone down the line if I want to spend the extra money.
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The thing is, there are only two types of people... Those who want an iPhone and those that have never used an iPhone.
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bloodline wrote:
The thing is, there are only two types of people... Those who want an iPhone and those that have never used an iPhone.
You should put that in your sig ;-)
--
moto
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ok
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:-D
--
moto
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:roll:
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bloodline wrote:
The thing is, there are only two types of people... Those who want an iPhone and those that have never used an iPhone.
There's a third type of person! One who can't afford an iPhone so had to buy an 8GB memory card for his Nokia N95 :bigcry:
(£24.90 delivered from BMC Digital (http://www.bmcdigital.co.uk/catalog/browse/microsd/8gb-sandisk-microsd-microsdhc-memory-card-free-reader) :pint:)
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A4000_Mad wrote:
bloodline wrote:
The thing is, there are only two types of people... Those who want an iPhone and those that have never used an iPhone.
There's a third type of person! One who can't afford an iPhone so had to buy an 8GB memory card for his Nokia N95 :bigcry:
No... the above still fits into my category :-)
(£24.90 delivered from BMC Digital (http://www.bmcdigital.co.uk/catalog/browse/microsd/8gb-sandisk-microsd-microsdhc-memory-card-free-reader) :pint:)
:-o Nice! :-D
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bloodline wrote:
The thing is, there are only two types of people... Those who want an iPhone and those that have never used an iPhone.
You're right, there ARE two types of people... Apple zealots who believe Steve Jobs is god, and those that are more firmly rooted in reality.
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adolescent wrote:
bloodline wrote:
The thing is, there are only two types of people... Those who want an iPhone and those that have never used an iPhone.
You're right, there ARE two types of people... Apple zealots who believe Steve Jobs is god, and those that are more firmly rooted in reality.
That's just an insult... at least my statement was rather clever word play :-P
But how St Jobs managed to turn a failing computer company into what Apple is today is frightening... by rights Apple should have gone the way of Commmodore, Atari, Sincair, Acorn, etc...
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bloodline wrote:
adolescent wrote:
You're right, there ARE two types of people... Apple zealots who believe Steve Jobs is god, and those that are more firmly rooted in reality.
That's just an insult... at least my statement was rather clever word play :-P
It's more of a compliment. In some ways you are like Apple disciples. :-D
bloodline wrote:
But how St Jobs managed to turn a failing computer company into what Apple is today is frightening... by rights Apple should have gone the way of Commmodore, Atari, Sincair, Acorn, etc...
What shape was Apple in when Jobs was ousted in 1985? Seems like he was part of the problem back then. Good to see he fixed things.
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adolescent wrote:
bloodline wrote:
adolescent wrote:
You're right, there ARE two types of people... Apple zealots who believe Steve Jobs is god, and those that are more firmly rooted in reality.
That's just an insult... at least my statement was rather clever word play :-P
It's more of a compliment. In some ways you are like Apple disciples. :-D
I don't like his holiness Jobs... But I have a huge amount of respect for him... I do really like Apple's products since 2006.
bloodline wrote:
But how St Jobs managed to turn a failing computer company into what Apple is today is frightening... by rights Apple should have gone the way of Commmodore, Atari, Sincair, Acorn, etc...
What shape was Apple in when Jobs was ousted in 1985? Seems like he was part of the problem back then.
I think Apple was one of the biggest computer companies in 1985...
Good to see he fixed things.
By 1997 apple was losing money hand over fist, and old products unable to keep up with the rest of the industry... It's intriguing to see how he fixed things!
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bloodline wrote:
I think Apple was one of the biggest computer companies in
Probably. But, 1985 was the worst year of Apple's history up to that point. 1/5 of the workforce (1200 jobs) sacked , 3 of 6 factories closed, Mac sales ~10% of expected, first ever operating loss reported, etc. All under Jobs watch.
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adolescent wrote:
bloodline wrote:
I think Apple was one of the biggest computer companies in
Probably. But, 1985 was the worst year of Apple's history up to that point. 1/5 of the workforce (1200 jobs) sacked , 3 of 6 factories closed, Mac sales ~10% of expected, first ever operating loss reported, etc. All under Jobs watch.
Actually John Sculley was the CEO at that time, Jobs had never been in charge of Apple until 1997 (and in the mid 70s)...
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bloodline wrote:
The thing is, there are only two types of people... Those who want an iPhone and those that have never used an iPhone.
more like..those who own Apple products and those that never have and never will :lol:
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bloodline wrote:
Actually John Sculley was the CEO at that time, Jobs had never been in charge of Apple until 1997 (and in the mid 70s)...
Steve Jobs was the Chairman of the Board from 1981 until he was fired in 1985. You don't get more "in charge" than that.
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adolescent wrote:
bloodline wrote:
Actually John Sculley was the CEO at that time, Jobs had never been in charge of Apple until 1997 (and in the mid 70s)...
Steve Jobs was the Chairman of the Board from 1981 until he was fired in 1985. You don't get more "in charge" than that.
As proven by Jobs ousting, the CEO is more powerful.
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Hello, I'm more of a lurker and love reading the banter about all this, but there seem to be really the haters of Apple and Steve and those who actually have some first have knowledge and experience.
First, about OS X not being innovative and Linux being the big consumer *NIX. Well the truth is that no operating system based on 70's technology as Linux or OS X is would be considered innovative so much as evolutionary.
No OS X is not nearly as innovative as was the Amiga OS when it hit the scene. That is a leap in innovation that has yet to be even remotely repeated by any OS. Yet as a *NIX engineer with 18 years in Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, Linux, and now OS X, I will without hesitation say that only OS X has successfully done what no other *NIX has ever done and that is to put *NIX in the hands of the consumer in the way OS X has. Linux is still for the expert user, datacenter, and hobbiest. if anything, it's eating into the Datacenter taking over tasks once heald by other unixes and Windows server. It's on cheap, yet barely successful cheap PCs, and in many embedded devices, but it's not a mass market Unix desktop. Yet.
Where Apple is innovative is that you now have essentially in every major city, a unix computer store in the upscale malls. Unix computers with Genius Bars, awesome software apps, rabid fan base, and the creative market in Apple heaven.
So Linux has it's place in business, hobbiest, expert-users, and OS X owns the creative and home market. This is of course not counting Windows.
As for the iPhone. As an early adopter, I can say I was stupid to buy the damn thing at the price I bought it for, with the apps it had, but now, since iPhone 2.0 software update, this sucker has me almost as excited as the first time I bought my first Amiga (almost, nothing beats my first Amiga experience)
What the iPhone has become, is an awesome new computing platform. The real unsung platform is the iPod Touch and screw the phone part.
So Steve hating aside. Apple's marketing machine aside. You must recognize that Apple's ability to leapfrog Linux in the consumer space to make a platform that my mother and grandmother can use and create a new computing platform in the for of the ipod touch and iphone is awesome. If you ever used them, then there is no doubt, if you've only watched from a distance, then you will never understand.
The sad part about all of this is that the damn Amiga STILL has innovative concepts and implementations that STILL have yet to be trounced.
If we could ever find an Asshole like Steve Jobs and the machine of Apple to get behind Amiga is a real way by facelifting the interface, providing a new computing hardware platform, and put any sexiness back, there is no reason why we could not also evolve our earlier most innovative platform beyond where OS X, Linux, and Windows are today in at least technical superiority.
-Alex
Linux - Evolutionary branch from UNIX. No real innovation only evolution
OS X - Evolutionary branch from UNIX. Innovative user experience for UNIX
Amiga OS - Revolutionary OS and experience. Stagnant. Dumb-ass owners
Windows Vista - Evolutionary build on horrible OS
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bloodline wrote:
As proven by Jobs ousting, the CEO is more powerful.
Not quite. It was the board of directors that sided with the CEO. The CEO, Scully, did not actually fire him. IIRC, the board asked him to resign and striped him of all operation duties, which led to him leaving.
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adolescent wrote:
bloodline wrote:
As proven by Jobs ousting, the CEO is more powerful.
Not quite. It was the board of directors that sided with the CEO. The CEO, Scully, did not actually fire him. IIRC, the board asked him to resign and striped him of all operation duties, which led to him leaving.
Yes... it shows clearly that Jobs was not in control... he lost control in the 70s
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bloodline wrote:
Yes... it shows clearly that Jobs was not in control... he lost control in the 70s
hmmph.. There is no use arguing with an Apple fanatic... You are right, Steve Jobs can do no wrong. He didn't ride the company down to the dumpster in the early 80s, sell off his stock and resign (all as Chairman of the Board and a majority stakeholder of the company). Nope, didn't happen. Look over there, something shiny. :roll:
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adolescent wrote:
bloodline wrote:
Yes... it shows clearly that Jobs was not in control... he lost control in the 70s
hmmph.. There is no use arguing with an Apple fanatic... You are right, Steve Jobs can do no wrong. He didn't ride the company down to the dumpster in the early 80s, sell off his stock and resign (all as Chairman of the Board and a majority stakeholder of the company). Nope, didn't happen. Look over there, something shiny. :roll:
Shiny?!?! Where?
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Nlandas wrote:
Doesn't crash.
Can connect to any device automatically and work with it.
It just works.
Runs faster than any other PC.
Is easier to use.
Is better for graphics.
Makes you cool.
Don't forget "It Just Works" ;)
bloodline wrote:
Yes... you want a phone... get a phone... I want a fully integrated mobile personal life style computing device... so I got the iPhone :-)
Wayne wrote:
Now, do I "need" Internet and all that on my phone? Hell no, though I do send text messages (at 15 cents each) quite a bit. What I want however is to combine the things normally found in my pocket into one, single device whenever possible, and $200 (even $300) is a small price to pay for that as far as gadgets go.
Note that even most bog standard phones will do all sorts of extra things like Internet and are basically mobile computers now.
JJ wrote:
Suppose its all a matter of choice, but until Apple catches up with UK phones in new technology ( how old is 3G now)
This is a good point - I'm curious why people are amazed by features they think are new in a phone, but it's possibly to do with the fact that US phones seem to be a few years behind technology-wise. This is all old history for people elsewhere such as the UK.
amigadave wrote:
Apple understands the fact that most people don't want to tinker with and configure their computers and they cater to that, they have no intention of trying to change to satisfy the small group of computer users that want to alter the way the system works. They are targeting the masses and use any marketing they can to attract more market share, including claims that are not completely accurate at times, but that is true of almost every company out there of any kind, they all exaggerate some time. Don't blame them for being better at marketing lies to those that don't know better.
All companies understand this. But yes, what Apple are better at is marketing.
As I stated before, I want simplicity and ease of use when it comes to my cell phone and mobile PDA/mp3 player/web enabled device. I have not seen or heard of any other product that does what the 3G iPhone can
OOI, what unique features does the Iphone have?
Wayne wrote:
I don't understand your logic at all. Are you, or are you not going to have a cellphone during that same 24 months? Most of us have resigned ourselves to the fact that we will always have a cellphone bill. For some, like myself, I use it as my only phone, so your logic is flawed.
Again, the point being missed here may be the US versus UK thing. Here in the UK you tend to *either* pay for a contract, and get the phone free or very cheaply, *or* pay for the phone, and have no restrictions on contract. (And the free/cheap phones you get under contract include high end smartphones, not "you get a basic mobile Phone" as bloodline suggests.)
bloodline wrote:
The thing is, there are only two types of people... Those who want an iPhone and those that have never used an iPhone.
Funny, but unfair - you could say the same thing about all models of phones. Most people don't have time to try every single model of phone, so most people have only really tried the phones they use.
Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against the Iphone - I just don't see why people give it so much hype and free advertising over all other phone models, as if it were the only phone that could do these things. It's like Windows 95 all over again.
Re: Video calling, whilst it's true that most of the time people don't want it, I can think of some *ahem* uses where people might want to see each other (consider webcams - you can make the same argument about "not wanting to get made up just to use the computer", but clearly some people like using them) ... The point is, if I'm paying for an expensive phone, it'd better at least have all the features that even basic bog-standard phones have these days. Even if I only want to use the feature rarely, I don't want to have to go "Oh dear, I can't use it because I'm an Apple user", I expect it to Just Work. The same goes for video recording, MMS, Java and copy/paste.
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mdwh2 wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against the Iphone - I just don't see why people give it so much hype and free advertising over all other phone models, as if it were the only phone that could do these things.
Well. Hmmm. You make some valid points, and on the most part, I agree. The only thing I would say is that -- for me -- yes, other phones can do most anything the iPhone can do. HOWEVER, like the olden days when the Amiga actually had a prayer on the desktop, it's not that the iPhone does anything different, it's just that the integration of all these things seems to be 2x better and easier than the others.
Note of course that a lot of the phones we see nowadays did, in fact, steal ideas from the iPhone (the Instinct comes to mind as the most prevalent). Like Mac OSX, it's just 10x more usable and friendly to me and I'm at a point in my life where I just don't enjoy having to futz around to get computers to do stuff.
I have a thought, I hit a button, it works the way I expect. Something Windows has never done, and the Amiga has never had the opportunity to do since Commodore died.
It's like Windows 95 all over again.
That's a perspective issue. I actually have fond memories of Windows 95. I was the first adopter of any of my friends or fellow club members and I don't remember having the problems others reported.
Judging by Windows 3.1 before it, and even AmigaOS at the time (I believe 2.1 had just been released??), Windows 95 did just fine if you bought hardware for it, but isn't that the way of ANY Windows version?
Would I go back to '95? No way in hell, but then again, I specifically asked work to buy me a Mactop so I could actually work and not have to deal with XP or Vista.
Wayne
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adolescent wrote:
There is no use arguing with an Apple fanatic... You are right, Steve Jobs can do no wrong. He didn't ride the company down to the dumpster in the early 80s, sell off his stock and resign (all as Chairman of the Board and a majority stakeholder of the company).
HOW DARE YOU EVEN IMPLY STEVE JOBS DID WRONG ? TO ERR IS HUMAN, JOBS IS TRANCENDENTAL. :-P
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It's interesting that Americans are just discovering 3G, even out her in Australia we had 3G back in '03 or so.
But back to the iPhone, it was originally introduced as a 2.5G phone, only becoming 3G a year later.
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Nah, no Apple products in my home.
I stick with my Motorola phones, at least they have something in common with Amiga!:-D
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I have an iPod Touch and love it. All the iPhone people seem to forget that it can run their software too..
My friend who is a Mac owner just bought this new phone from Samsung. I did a side by side comparison of it to the iPhone.. Besides buttons with rounded corners versus squares they seem to have much the same everything.. And it's cheaper..
(http://gizmodo.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/06/Samsung_Instinct_Favorites.jpg)
It's called the Instinct..
http://gizmodo.com/5014419/samsung-instinct-full-review-verdict-best-sprint-phone-ever-best-samsung-phone-ever-too (http://gizmodo.com/5014419/samsung-instinct-full-review-verdict-best-sprint-phone-ever-best-samsung-phone-ever-too)
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Just consider the source, AmigaDave: unstable whackjobs who have held on to a dead and irrelevant computer platform through two presidential administrations. Not the kind of people whose opinions matter to me much when it comes to buying technology. (Kickstart 1.3:Computers::PalmOS:Smartphones)
Buy what makes you happy and is within your budget. It doesn't matter if Steve Jobs kicked your mother in the a$$ or Bill Gates dances on Gary Kildall's grave. The companies and their executives don't matter. Product does. The iPhone looks nice to you? Play with one and buy it. Visit big box stores and get some hands-on time with handsets. Read the technical specs. The best opinion is the one you come to on your own with research.
Best of luck to you.
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If the iPhone is so bad... why is it that EVERY other manufacturer is now playing catch up...
I don't see any other manufacturer bringing out something totally different, or something that has prompted people to want to queue outside stores to obtain!
In fact I've not seen a single advert for another Mobile that has focused on anything other than the features which the iPhone has... Apple have a design philosophy, that no other manufacturer can understand.
It has been highlighted most by what has happened in Japan. The market has been driven by features, but the iPhone has changed all that.
Market research has shown time, and time again, most people use 10% of a phone's features 90% of the time!
What Apple do is actually quite simple. Only include the basic minimum features and then make them work in the most natural way possible. They look at how people use devices and then perfect that interface.
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DonnyEMU wrote:
My friend who is a Mac owner just bought this new phone from Samsung. I did a side by side comparison of it to the iPhone.. Besides buttons with rounded corners versus squares they seem to have much the same everything.. And it's cheaper..
Before buying my iPhone, I went into Sprint and did a comparison of my own. You're right. A lot of the stock apps are the same, and the Instinct -- like others -- pretty much stole the iPhone interface straight out (but not enough to get sued).
The phone plan for the Instinct was more expensive as they were pretty much telling me that the only plan I could get was the unlimited plan.
Other than that, the difference is that the Instinct (to me, based on a store demo which means every idiot had a chance to chub it up) was about 50% slower than the iPhone in terms of moving screen to screen and launching apps.
Also, the Instinct doesn't really have an app community around it like the App store which is where I've probably loaded a dozen or so really useful apps and games.
I also see a niche market I could fill, if I could bring myself to code C++ again (hated it) and I like the ideal of getting paid for filling the niche.
Wayne
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I want to see UAE on an iPhone in an App Store. Then I will get one.
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amigakidd wrote:
I want to see UAE on an iPhone in an App Store. Then I will get one.
I guess you won't ever get an iPhone then. I don't think Apple would ever allow any emulator in the App Store. It would require access to the filesystem to copy roms on the iPhone and also emulators touch the grey area of illegality with copyright issues.
The only way would be when Amiga Inc would release an all in one option with kickstarts and some games in one like on their website.
Or you could jailbreak your iPhone and wait for some other option; right now there are NES and GBA emulators and ScummVM for example.
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Flashlab wrote:
I don't think Apple would ever allow any emulator in the App Store. It would require access to the filesystem to copy roms on the iPhone
There is already software which allows you to copy files to the iPhone. There is FileMagnet which allows you to copy Office, iWork and other documents on to the phone, and also some eBook readers allow you to upload eBooks to the phone. I don't see an emulator as any different.
Flashlab wrote:
and also emulators touch the grey area of illegality with copyright issues.
So do eBooks ;-)
--
moto
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UAE is embraced by many techies on the web. There should be an Amiga presence on an iPhone if not the distant future.
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I didn't know there were apps that allowed uploading files to the iPhone, I stand corrected!
But the grey area of emulators still stands I'm afraid...
If UAE comes to the iPhone I bet it won't be in the App Store.
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motorollin wrote:
I don't see an emulator as any different.
The current Terms and Conditions of the AppStore do not allow for Emulators... This may change with then next Firmware update and the gumblings from Adobe... but right now Emulators are a no go...
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bloodline wrote:
The current Terms and Conditions of the AppStore do not allow for Emulators...
Oh really? That sucks! I'm still wondering whether there's a way to spoof the app store. So iTunes thinks it's connecting to the iTunes store, but it's actually connecting to some server running locally which makes non-approved apps available. I have no idea whether that's feasible or not.
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There's an easier way; jailbreak your iPhone and put apps on it directly.
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Flashlab wrote:
There's an easier way; jailbreak your iPhone and put apps on it directly.
While Jailbreaking offers no disadvantages other than a possible need to rejailbreak after a Firmware update... I would prefer to use official solutions :-(
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Same here; I haven't jailbroken my iPhone. But it seems it's harmless and reversible.
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I Jailbroke my old iPhone and it worked well. But when I came to sell it and restored it, requiring me to re-Jailbreak and re-lock it, I found that the solution I had used (ZiPhone) was potentially harmful to the phone. So I made the decision not to Jailbreak my iPhone 3G. I just wish Apple would officially incorporate the features of TaskBar Notifier :-(
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bloodline wrote:
If the iPhone is so bad... why is it that EVERY other manufacturer is now playing catch up...
In what sense are they playing catch up? There are large numbers of areas that the Iphone is playing catch up (only just getting 3G). And anyway, why is it wrong if manufacturers copy a feature first in the Iphone, considering that most of the Iphone's features were copied off of all the phones that came previously?
I don't see any other manufacturer bringing out something totally different, or something that has prompted people to want to queue outside stores to obtain!
This is a marketing achievement sure - clearly it wasn't that Apple were first with 3G. But in what sense was the Iphone "totally different"?
In fact I've not seen a single advert for another Mobile that has focused on anything other than the features which the iPhone has...
Which features are these? I suspect they are simply focusing on features that phones have full stop, and you are just assuming that it is a comparison to the Iphone.
It has been highlighted most by what has happened in Japan. The market has been driven by features, but the iPhone has changed all that.
What, by not having features? ;)
Market research has shown time, and time again, most people use 10% of a phone's features 90% of the time!
How does this make the Iphone better?
What Apple do is actually quite simple. Only include the basic minimum features and then make them work in the most natural way possible. They look at how people use devices and then perfect that interface.
If I only want the basic minimum of features, then why would I spend all that money? They 10% of phone features that most people use (which is most likely just phone calls and SMS, and perhaps some simple browsing or taking photos) can be had in a dirt cheap phone.
By assuming that most people want to load up their phones with mp3s and view the Internet on them all day, I don't see this is any different to the other phones that assume people want to take videos/photos ... and play mp3s and view the Internet on them all day. I also find it unlikely that the proportion of people using mp3s and Internet browsing on their phones is higher than the proportion who use MMS.
In summary, I don't think it's true that the Iphone has trimmed down on a core set of features any more than any other phone, and secondly, I wouldn't want to pay more for the privilege of fewer features, when I could pay less instead. (I also find it rather odd that lacking standard features is twisted to be a good thing, but then this is a common argument for Apple products - even bad points are cited as being good points.)
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Apparently the iPhone 3G has some issues (http://computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9112758).
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@mdwh2
I'm not going to argue this across two threads... You don't get the iPhone... great... You try and do what Apple has done then. :-)
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Piru wrote:
Apparently the iPhone 3G has some issues (http://computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9112758).
I've been following this, but the UK doesn't seem to be affected... I suspect it's due to AT&T's 3G network... which I believe is rather immature... Though I know AT&T are denying it's their problem... I don't know...