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Author Topic: Os 3.1.4 - List of bug fixes and changes by component  (Read 84973 times)

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Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.1.4 - List of bug fixes and changes by component
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2018, 10:20:16 AM »
It is neither the scsi.device that looks at MaxTransfer. It is the file system, typically the FFS, to implement that. Previous versions of CrossDos and CDFS also simply ignored this value (as part of more defects), and I do not know for other file systems whether they handle this correct, but the FFS does.

Right - FFS in general, or FFS v45? The quote from the FAQ pretty much says "built-in" scsi.device solves _all_ maxtransfer issues, regardless.
Is it correct? Only for the "real" A600 and A1200 Gayle controller? Should it perhaps say that it may depend on hardware and filesystem? Are there situations with scsi.device v45 where MaxTransfer values should be adjusted?
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.1.4 - List of bug fixes and changes by component
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2018, 10:40:54 AM »
It is not "rather broken". It is simply a bug. Such things happen. There is another bug with pipes which we did not spot.

Arguing about semantics doesn't fix anything, if you have systems relying on correct failat handling, then the result is "broken".
Since the pipes in v46 shell is largely new, different and incompatible with previous pipe handling, I have not even looked at it beyond simple interactive use.

The question is though... will bugs be fixed and do one rely on Hyperion for distribution of fixes? Will you post updates on aminet?

Or will people have to wait for Gulliwhatshisname to release unofficial boingbags again? :p
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.1.4 - List of bug fixes and changes by component
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2018, 09:14:32 PM »
And if one has multiple incarnations of scsi.device in use on same system, such as booting with kick 3.1 before loading scsi.device v45, or when using IDEFix, one better stay safe than sorry. Especially with "exotic" implementations of Gayle.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.1.4 - List of bug fixes and changes by component
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2018, 05:39:57 PM »
How about $_phar and $_mchar? Still used, or are things now hard coded to | and ||?
(I have typically used && for the latter)

Is CONSOLE: used by any chance? I've been asked to insert CONSOLE: a few times with shell v46.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.1.4 - List of bug fixes and changes by component
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2018, 10:38:22 AM »
I see. Yes, guess I may have attempted using & in some temporary script, which then has been launched with "run >NIL: script" in the background, detaching it from any console capable of job control. Using & is more equivalent to "run >console:" I suppose.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.1.4 - List of bug fixes and changes by component
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2018, 07:49:19 PM »
I see. Yes, guess I may have attempted using & in some temporary script, which then has been launched with "run >NIL: script" in the background, detaching it from any console capable of job control. Using & is more equivalent to "run >console:" I suppose.

No, & is not equivalent to "Run".
I wrote "more equivalent", not that it was equivalent.

Quote
"Run" starts a background shell, "&" does not. That means, the input of a program launched with "&" stays connected to the console, just a different console owner. Of course, the default Console-Handler of AmigaOs (aka Tripos) is too stupid to know, but ViNCed does. If you start a program with & and it requests input, the console will tell you and you can switch between the jobs with the "fg" and "bg" commands, and then enter information. "&" is much closer to the Linux/Unix "&" than "Run" ever was. If you start a program with "Run" and it expects input, it will receive nothing.

Well, what you describe is rather messy, with the console doing the job of the shell - again.

Code: [Select]
$> type ram:test
ping somewhere &
echo haha
$> protect ram:test +s
$> run >NIL: ram:test

.. and presto, requester pops up, asking me to insert CONSOLE:

In other words - "&" only really works "reliably" in ViNCed, where job control is a thing, and the fg and bg scripts are (somewhat) functional.

On plain OS 3.1.4 there is no ViNCEd, using the & becomes rather pointless, not to mention "dangerous".
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 06:42:59 AM by kolla »
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.1.4 - List of bug fixes and changes by component
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2018, 07:59:47 PM »
I do not know how your average USB stack maps devices to unit numbers, but I would believe that you can control with the unit number in the mount list which stick this is supposed to be. The geometry change does not matter, CrossDos gets this information from the partition and adjusts itself. That is, all the "LowCyl/HighCyl" numbers in the mount list are irrelevant and replaced by CrossDos anyhow.

With FAT95, one can use DosType in a mountlist entry to tell what MBR partition on a device that will be mounted, for example by setting DosType=0x46415401 it will use the first FAT partition of a device (regardless), 0x46415402 is second primary... 05 is first logical if there is an extended partiion, 06 is second etc.

How do one do this with the new CrossDOS? I want to replace FAT95 with CrossDOS, but if it means dealing with geometry and cylinders on every individual device I may put into a system, it is simply not worth it.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.1.4 - List of bug fixes and changes by component
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2018, 08:03:41 PM »
I am not sure which operating system you are using, but CONSOLE: is not a ViNCEd specific thing at all, not at all. It is a (pseudo)-device that is created and operated by the dos.library. If you see such a strange requester, it is surely not becaue you are not using ViNCEd. The only that that is different there is that my console supports job control whereas CON: does not.

Os 2.x supported CONSOLE: only incompletely, but this changed in 3.1.

So? Not sure why you keep misreading me...

My point was that... JOB CONTROL ... and hence, using & to run commands in background,  is only useful with ViNCEd. Using "&" with the out-of-the-box console of OS 3.1.4 can easily bring the user to unfriendly places. Especially if he/she makes the mistake of putting it in scripts.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.1.4 - List of bug fixes and changes by component
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2018, 09:47:41 PM »
You find out by reading my post. Yes, really. I just found out it's really not worth answering.

It is vague, it appears to not let user specify where to actually look for a FAT file system.
You write "Change the name of the icon such that the last letter indicates the right partition".
So what is it for second logical partition? Does it depend on whether there is FAT filesystems on the other partitions? Does partition ordering matter?

Also...
Quote
Now, consider the same for FAT95: Instead, you could have as many as 255 entries in the FileSystem resource for that: One for FAT\0, the first partition, one for FAT\1, the second partition and so on, up to FAT\255, the 256th partition.
So how do one do many partitions with CrossDOS now anyways? You quickly run out of letters in the alphabet.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 07:03:08 AM by kolla »
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.1.4 - List of bug fixes and changes by component
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2018, 07:17:38 AM »
@Thomas Richter

No, you only say that dos device name must end with a letter that corresponds to a partition, whatever that is may very well depend on the partition layout, there is no exact answer, right? The MBR partition table may not list partitions in "correct" order, the extended partition may or may not exist on either of the four possible primary partitions, and the order of logical partitions is also not necessarily fixed. Does CrossDOS care about partition ordering? No answer. Does it get confused if there are primary partitions "behind" an extended partition? Who knows. Is there a specific letter associated with exactly the second logical partition of an extended partition? I suppose answer is - not really.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.1.4 - List of bug fixes and changes by component
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2018, 10:57:52 AM »
Why don't you try and report in this thread?
Why do you assume I have not tried? I have tried. Lots. Did it work? Not really.
Though I have zero problems with FAT95, attempts at making equivalent mount point entries for crossdos have been mostly futile
Since it is so damn quirky both to get documentation and "support", I will hereby leave it to others to discover issues and report them in the sycophantic manner necessary.

Quote
(Not to serve as an in-depth, developers' manual for AmigaOS v3.1.4.)

I am not a developer, I am just trying to _use_ the software I bought, which is not so easy with documentation lacking and/or spread in bits an pieces all over, and no interest from Hyperion whatsoever beyond ownership and sales, certainly not to offer any support.

If I actually _was_ a developer, I would certainly miss an in-depth developers manual as well, but no such thing exists, does it.

EDIT: On the topic of CrossDOS - when was developer rights to CrossDOS passed over from Consultron to Hyperion, anyways? OS 3.1 only came with a limited version of CrossDOS, and CBM only had limited rights to develop CrossDOS themselves, it was a typical example of "bundleware", crippled to not interfere with the sales of the commercial version.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 11:24:43 AM by kolla »
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.1.4 - List of bug fixes and changes by component
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2018, 05:22:51 AM »
Why do you assume I have not tried? I have tried. Lots. Did it work? Not really.
No, you haven't.

So you are calling me a liar?

Well, you also did not believe me regarding LoadModule not detecting CD32 correctly, did you...

Quote
DosTypes and support for partition mounting did not change in CrossDos. Not at all. It's this way since CrossDos shipped, and by that I mean "back in CBM days".

That means it is only compatible to _really_ old MSDOS FDISK ways of building the MBR and EBR... hm.

Quote
I'm just re-iterating what you should have in your manual with 3.1 in first place, and apparently, what people forgot. There is a reason why this is 3.1.4 and not 3.2.

Please point me to the page in the OS 3.1 manual that speaks of this - I have them all, even searchable online, and I only find vague references to mounting Syquest cartridges as "D:".

http://amiga.nvg.org/amiga/reference/AmigaOS3.5_Manual/workbench/book-main122.html
http://amiga.nvg.org/amiga/amigafaq/AmigaFAQ_65.html

And "the official manuals" are no better...
https://wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/AmigaOS_Manual:_Workbench_CrossDOS

I have "Das Buch" here somewhere, maybe it is mentioned in that one?

JanusTools comes with some funny info... "CrossDos will not work with the 0x4D534800 DOSType" (http://aminet.net/package/docs/help/CDJanusTools)

Quote
So the partition assignment to letters is *not* changed, the dos types are *not changed*. And please, don't tell me it is particularly hard to adjust the dos type to the types I provided, and change the name of the icon (potentially) to the naming rules I provided. Despite this being all "old news".

Old news, yet...
Quote
CrossDos is also pretty much new, at least many major parts have been exchanged
So what to think. What has really changed and what has not, how does this relate to the official "professional" CrossDOS 7.x Gold etc.

And how do one know in the first place...
Quote
Use the manual from 3.1. Really.
Well, I do have the manuals, all of them, and they are also available online, in multiple languages... searchable.

https://archive.org/details/Amiga_OS_3.1_DOS_1993_Commodore_DE/page/n13?q=CrossDOSFileSystem

If someone could point me to the correct manual and what page that speaks in detail of how CrossDOSFileSystem deals with extended partitions? No?

Well, since documentation is so... intangible... and "nothing at all" has changed, looking at sources can reveal what the problem is.
Quote
*   If DOSType = "ID_MSDOS_DISK_HD", expect a valid FDISK-type
*   hard disk partition table.  It will then parse the partition
*   table to find the desired partition.  It handles MSDOS 3.0
*   primary and extended partitions.  New types of MSDOS partitions
*   4.0 and beyond can be supported if the veil of secrecy is removed
*   from this generally proprietry information.

So then, CrossDOS simply cannot replace FAT95 in many cases, as it simply does not know jack about "modern" incarnations of MBR/EBR.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.1.4 - List of bug fixes and changes by component
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2019, 06:05:42 AM »
update: indeed it was on Hyperion's website and shaking my head why it wasn't included with my purchase ? ::)
Because you already have all the modules on the kickstart ROMs you bought, and hence do not need any modules floppy.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.1.4 - List of bug fixes and changes by component
« Reply #27 from previous page: March 11, 2019, 06:06:05 AM »
(double post)
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS