Masjsta's A500 Vampire

[SpaceMonkey]

Yeah, so it's neither compatible with the 68040 or the 68060. Gunnar has a different idea of compatibility than I do. He appears to only be interested in running golden software, I want to be able to run anything that you can run on a 68060. If I want to write software that relies on 68040 instructions trapping then I should be able to. If he allowed it to be configured, or even open source it then we'd have a choice. I don't think he has the right personality for that though.

On the FPU & MMU things get worse. He thinks that we can just write new MMU software and ignore anything like existing debug tools, virtual memory and BSD distros. At one point I think he was talking about using a different precision model for the FPU. With some vague hope that just because it's floating point, that nothing will rely on getting the same results as an 060 FPU would give. Which may be true for golden software that he's deemed worthy, but if you don't meet his requirement for worthiness then good luck.

He may have changed his mind on all of this, in which case a vampire would be a worthwhile purchase. But for me I'd rather not buy something where the source isn't available and he's not committed to 100% compatibility with real chips rather than only being interested in the ego trip of inventing a new one.

As far as i can see it supports all of the 040 & 060 function plus been more efficiency while adding mmx, with FPU and MMU support to follow. The biggest advantage each fix, enhancement is just a re-flashing away.

I guessing some people don't like progress, and think the Amiga 1000 with Workbench 1  256 kb and a 68000 was the pinnacle of the Amiga story.

The vampire is reason why i bought an Amiga 600 after selling my 4000 around 15 years ago.

[Pgovotsos]

As far as i can see it supports all of the 040 & 060 function plus been more efficiency while adding mmx

This is one addition that I really don't understand. What is the point of having Intel MMX instructions available on an Amiga? It's not like there is any software to take advantage of them is there?

[SpaceMonkey]

i'm sure that has the same argument for when the FPU was first released or a 512Kb memory expansion for the Amiga 500

As for the MMX, datatype is the most obvious first choice

[wawrzon]

This is one addition that I really don't understand. What is the point of having Intel MMX instructions available on an Amiga? It's not like there is any software to take advantage of them is there?

im not that convinced either, though it dosent hurt, i guess..

[spaceman88]

I guess he liked the results of the first one, Majsta has listed a second Vampire 500. Bidding is up to $300 US (started at $12).

[BozzerBigD]

I guess he liked the results of the first one, Majsta has listed a second Vampire 500. Bidding is up to $300 US (started at $12).

It looks like it was just relisted. Maybe the seller refused to pay?

                            After many years of development Vampire 500 V2 accelerator is finished and this is first official sale.

Also, as I was watching it first time round I got the following email:

Everyone deserves a second chance - your watched item has been relisted.

[spaceman88]

It looks like it was just relisted. Maybe the seller refused to pay?




Also, as I was watching it first time round I got the following email:

I was also watching the first one and got the same message. If he has 2 (or 20) it's easier to just hit the relist button than to make a whole new auction. If the winner of the the first auction backed out he would probably do a "second chance offer" to the next highest bidder.

[kolla]

You do not need to re-compile older/current software to use the upcoming FPU on the Apollo-Core, it's fully backwards compatible (and a lot faster)

If that really is the case, then Gunnar has changed his view. Good.

In raw integer performance the Vampire leaves a 68060 in the dust, it is way faster then 060, the benchmarks do not lie, you can look them up.

I have, and yeah, faster than a 50MHz 060, but not so much faster than a 100MHz 060. It does not leave the 060 in the dust, it is typically only 50-120% faster. And that is on benchmarks, not "real life" tasks. I am not saying it is bad, I am just saying that it is not so much faster that it makes much difference if you want to run so called "modern" software.

Once the FPU is implemented (it's done and currently being tested) this also will leave a 060 in the dust on FPU performance.

Time will show.

And what is the point implementing a FPU that does not support current software ?!?

Indeed, that was exactly what I was asking some time ago. If it is really true that the FPU will be compatible (with 040 or 060 FPU? 68881/68882?) I am happy to hear that he has changed his views.

You are right when you want to take full advantage of Apollo Core like using AMMX you'll have to do some ASM code or inline ASM code.
But the main point is that Apollo-Core is fully backwards compatible and existing software will run and a lot faster then on 060.

Again, that is not exactly what he has been arguing up through the time, where his view has been that since FPU and MMU are nothing that "most users" or "most software" use anyways, he is free to implement them however he like, and awesomeness alone would be enough to attract software developers.

Also The Vampire activated a lot of ex-Amiga users that where inactive for years, so was I for for 10 years, until this happened.
And the Vampire is affordable even with the current price raise to 250 euro for V600 and V500. (060 card will cost double, triple  that ?)
There is nothing in the classic Amiga market that even comes close in price/performance.

I don't argue that.

And quit comparing 25 year old systems to modern ones, you cannot beat those, Classic Amiga is a hobby it will never be mainstream again.

Indeed, I am glad you realise, unlike so many others.
Then perhaps you realise that software development for classic Amiga is a hobby too, and that it is quite limited what kind of "modern" software you can expect to see, just because we now have a CPU that in general is 2-3 times faster.

And from this point of view Vampire/Apollo-core is the best thing that happened for classic Amiga since PPC cards.
Besides that My A600 with vampire2 can play a MP3 without stuttering unlike my old S3, what does that sometimes for no reason at all, though having more processing power.

People still play mp3s? I am impressed :laughing: Sorry, that is nice and all, and I suppose it is impressive to do something like that with a 68k CPU on an A600, it's just that I was playing mp3s on my A600 like 15+ years ago already, not using the CPU (a 50MHz 030+882), but still.

[psxphill]

This is one addition that I really don't understand. What is the point of having Intel MMX instructions available on an Amiga? It's not like there is any software to take advantage of them is there?

The why is because Amiga isn't his target audience.

You may not have to recompile FPU software, but that doesn't mean it produces the same results. I'd like to see that said first.

[Pgovotsos]

The why is because Amiga isn't his target audience.

You may not have to recompile FPU software, but that doesn't mean it produces the same results. I'd like to see that said first.

Does Majsta and the Apollo team have different goals? From what I've seen, and it's probably a very incomplete view since I haven't really delved into it, it seems like Majsta wants to make accelerators for classic Amigas while the Apollo team seems to view Amiga compatibility as just a starting point with the goal of a standalone, Amiga-ish machine. Sort of an Amiga plus (or perhaps minus depending on your point of view).

I could definitely be completely wrong because, like I said, I haven't really dug into it much. If it is true, maybe it's unfair / wrong to discuss them as one and the same?

[psxphill]

Does Majsta and the Apollo team have different goals?

Definitely, but I don't think Majsta has that much say over how Apollo works. So he only gets what they want, the same as we do :/

They are essentially one and the same, until someone makes a competing core for the vampire.

[wawrzon]

the same as we do :/

then do something different if you are not satisfied with the results delivered for you.

[magnetic]

+1

greasy i think thats the first time you ever agreed with me!

[psxphill]

then do something different if you are not satisfied with the results delivered for you.

I am doing something different, I'm making sure people know the truth.
Maybe then enough people will refuse to buy it until it's the way it should be done. If not then I'll buy something else.

That is how people put pressure on companies to provide them the services they want. Or are you saying I'm not allowed to do that?

last i remember they (gunnar) have said the fpu (wip, not currently included) is compatible what concerns instruction set and precission.

this doesnt currently apply to mmu. even though it even seems to be on a todo list.

If that is official then I don't see why they haven't made a big fuss over the turn around. I would still like the ability to only emulate 68060 instructions in the fpga though.

[skipp604]

I am doing something different, I'm making sure people know the truth.
Maybe then enough people will refuse to buy it until it's the way it should be done. If not then I'll buy something else.

That is how people put pressure on companies to provide them the services they want. Or are you saying I'm not allowed to do that?

If that is official then I don't see why they haven't made a big fuss over the turn around. I would still like the ability to only emulate 68060 instructions in the fpga though.

First of all, you are spreading bulls**t, not making "people know the truth". Your misinformation is only doing harm (both potential customers, existing user base and the people who work their as**s off for the sake of progression in Amiga community). Whether or not that's a result of your lack of knowledge on the subject or your actions are intentional for some other reason, you are welcome to open IRC client, connect to Freenode server and join #apollo-team channel, and talk directly to the people you accuse of withholding any information.

Second of all, it's not yours to decide who owns whom a "service" of any kind if you are not a party involved. It's not your right to put a "pressure" on anybody unless you paid for something that was falsely advertised. You clearly are not their customer, you never used ANY ApolloCore/Vampire card yourself and still you play a White Knight role of a Social Justice Warrior for other people.

Again.
Step 1. Open IRC client.
Step 2. Connect to Freenode.
Step 3. Join #apollo-team and talk to Majsta, Gunnar, Kipper.
Step 4. Stop spreading your self-righteous bullsh*t.

[wawrzon]

Maybe then enough people will refuse to buy it until it's the way it should be done. If not then I'll buy something else.

is this your agenda? to make the people not buy something because you want to buy something else? why dont you do this right away, and tell us if there is a better alternative?

That is how people put pressure on companies to provide them the services they want. Or are you saying I'm not allowed to do that?

it is not a company. it is an initiative composed of volontary members so far. at least thats what i know. do you think you are free to "put pressure" on everyone just in order to deliver you with "services" you expect?

If that is official then I don't see why they haven't made a big fuss over the turn around..

maybe you simply overhear any actual information, while making "big fuss" yourself? you might simply tone down a bit.

I would still like the ability to only emulate 68060 instructions in the fpga though.

why? if actually all instructions are available? i could understand if you asked for an option that fpga core identifies as 060 instead of 040. but why remove instructions in order to be compatible with a cpu that needs libraries to emulate these instructions for compatibility?

however if you insist, why simply not keep the 060. and swap it every time you need physically with another sort of cpu. because next time you will complain that fpga is too fast anyway.

one way or the other i doubt you will stop anyone from buying vampire, its just wasted effort..