IndivisionECS will have dual video output!

[Beast96GT]

Wow, new hardware developed for a dead machine and people complain that it costs too much.  What do you really expect?!   I bought my Amber card off ebay for $150 and had to pull my Toaster to put it in.  Dead hardware development isn't the bill payer for Jens--I'm just glad he loves the Ami enough to do this stuff.  BTW:  Shhh....  I don't think anybody's getting rich on this stuff, call me crazy.     'Nuff said.

[tone007]

I call EXTREAME BS  (B F***in S)on that one.

Do you mean to say you think the price is not in line with what a good working scandoubler would cost you on eBay, if you can even find one that works in an A500/A1000?

And how about the fact that this is a new, supported, guaranteed product.  If you buy that dusty old 2320 or Microway on eBay and put it in your 2000 and every time you switch to 8 color 320x240 mode a giant turd floats across your screen, who can you complain to? No one.  Now with the Indivision, you don't have to worry about that.  Jens will work on a fix to get rid of the giant turd.

As for what you know about manufacturing hardware, it costs a hell of a lot less to reproduce old designs than it does to develop and design new products.  Any jerk can etch a few boards.

It's a good product, at a fair price.  I'm sure it'll sell well.

[NovaCoder]

Wow, new hardware developed for a dead machine and people complain that it costs too much.  What do you really expect?!   I bought my Amber card off ebay for $150 and had to pull my Toaster to put it in.  Dead hardware development isn't the bill payer for Jens--I'm just glad he loves the Ami enough to do this stuff.  BTW:  Shhh....  I don't think anybody's getting rich on this stuff, call me crazy.     'Nuff said.

X2, Jens is never going to get rich from selling this stuff...he does it because he can.  If you don't want to pay the $$$ for new Amiga HW, don't.

[quarkx]

X2, Jens is never going to get rich from selling this stuff...he does it because he can.  If you don't want to pay the $$$ for new Amiga HW, don't.

Hey, I never said Jens was going to get rich or anything (By the way I did say you can get scan doublers for the ame price off ebay) My Point is the $140 price point is way too expensive for people to buy 2 or or more for the dual screen mode. My second point is that SIMPLE ECONIMICS and MATH justifies lowering the profit margin to sell more units and make more profit. You can't argue with the facts, but everyone is these days. It looks like we have a lot of so called "experts" on both hardware and economics. I don't claim to be either, but I can do simple math.

[Trev]

When they could be making so much more profit in volume sales.
Like I said before I would rather make a $10/unit profit on 1000 units than a $50 /unit profit and only sell 30 units.
You can not argue with the math (but of course the meatheads will try).

I'm sure Jens would love that, too, if he could find customers in the 1000's. This is a very small market, and economies of scale don't provide a positive benefit. The least expensive Altera dev kit is 150 USD. The fact that Jens can approach that price with his own products at a fraction of the volume is a good thing, and I hope both he and his retailers do profit from it. Jens designs good kit.

EDIT: I can't tell from the photo which FPGA Jens is using. The cheapest FLEX-10K is 32.50 USD per unit on Altera's site.

[CodePoet]

Wow, there are a fair few a**holes in the community. I for one think it's a great price considering the work that went into it. Jens obviously spent countless hours designing that beastie, coupled with the time it took to reverse engineer the ECS/OCS chipset (since the integral part of this design is based on his previous clone-A project)

He's fully justified in charging whatever the hell he wants for it. There's a TINY market, the guy needs to eat and fund his future ventures, and there's no way adding a minuscule markup such as $10 will _EVER_ pay off the time/labour spent on such a venture. Have you gotten off your lazy a$$ and created any new hardware for the Amiga? No, You haven't.

So, stop your damn b***ing about how "for that price it better have a builtin dong-schpedoodler", or he "Should've done x" or "Typical, he over-engineered Y and inflated the price" or "People that want to buy two cant because they'd have to trade in an arm, leg and testicle".

$@#*$^#*(^&($&(@*#&

/quit

[amigadave]

What, you have a crystal ball that can show what the sales numbers would be at $100 per unit compared to $140 per unit?  I don't think so!  I don't think anyone can guarantee that more profit would be made in the long run at different price points per unit.

It is Jens product to price at what ever point he chooses and you can either choose to buy 1, or 2, or a dozen.  Personally I don't think the dual monitor mode was planned from the beginning.  I think it was just a happy coincidence that he, or someone on his development team figured out that with the DIP socket they could double up two ECS Indivisions and with some clever additional programming, they could provide the dual monitor display option.  I don't think it is over engineered like someone said, but it is also not what could be called "Value Engineered" to be the cheapest scan doubler available.  Rather it is engineered to be the best scan doubling product available for the Amiga and I for one think the price is very fair considering the years of research behind it that allowed it to be created and the results of what it provide to the user.

If you can invent a product that provides the same quality display cheaper, go for it and good luck to you.

[new2amga]

Not to be on the negative side, but unfortunately, the price is a little steep for me.  I'm not everyone, and I'm certain that they will sell many of these.  It seems to me that more people have OCS/ECS machines than the AGA machines.  I have three machines that I would like to buy one each for.  I regrettably cannot afford it.  I will not bitch about it as it's not Jens fault that he needs to make a profit, nor is it Amigakit's fault as they need to make a profit too.  I blame solely the economy as it is keeping me from having a good job.  When people who have worked in the IT field for 20 Years are looking for work because they got laid off, what is someone like me who is just finishing up school to expect?  You can get work experience for next to nothing, or untrained for next to nothing, which would you choose?  For me it's very hard to justify to my wife and myself to buy something like this when it's not truly necessary to have to make the Amiga work.  Whoever said we were out of the economic slump lied through their freaking teeth.  However.  I wish them the best of luck and if some of my unpaid consulting jobs come through (still haven't been paid for about 35 hours @ $75 an hour) then I will more than likely buy the three I want, but like with most other electronics.  I don't truly need them.

[terminator4]

You're an a*****e too buddy, and pretty low to resort to name calling (isn't that against this site's rules?).  
You know everyone is entitled to an opinion no matter if yours or mine is stupid or not.
I just think the better price would be $99 not $140.  its a flicker fixer newly produced, great, I would expect a better price than some old stuff you find on ebay.  You pay for rarity factor there.
Anyway don't give me that no one makes a hefty profit (which is fine) on amiga hardware.  Jens, amigakit all those dealers do.  Jens deserves it because he has to live off it, some dealers the same.  However, making larger quantities of the products would sell more at better prices of that i have no doubt.  Yeah, I'd buy 2 or 3 now i'm going to buy ONLY 1.  Challenge to dealers: how about making a special offer if someone wants 2 or 3 or more of those?  The flicker fixer is unlike another component, it allows connection to VGA monitor.  And since its internal its not easy to swap for use on another machine.
You have to remove the entire metal thing holding the powersupply and disk drives - hence one flicker fixer for only one machine (which one A2000 or A500? tough choice especially if you use A500 for gaming and A2000 for more serious stuff)
And yes for last comment: I understand Jens need to live, but make your products for the masses not the classes.  Thats the old Commodore slogan.  I have always supported Jens and Individual Compuers products.  But in today's economic slump its pretty hard.

Wow, there are a fair few a**holes in the community. I for one think it's a great price considering the work that went into it. Jens obviously spent countless hours designing that beastie, coupled with the time it took to reverse engineer the ECS/OCS chipset (since the integral part of this design is based on his previous clone-A project)

He's fully justified in charging whatever the hell he wants for it. There's a TINY market, the guy needs to eat and fund his future ventures, and there's no way adding a minuscule markup such as $10 will _EVER_ pay off the time/labour spent on such a venture. Have you gotten off your lazy a$$ and created any new hardware for the Amiga? No, You haven't.

So, stop your damn b***ing about how "for that price it better have a builtin dong-schpedoodler", or he "Should've done x" or "Typical, he over-engineered Y and inflated the price" or "People that want to buy two cant because they'd have to trade in an arm, leg and testicle".

$@#*$^#*(^&($&(@*#&

/quit

[Pyromania]

Jens put a lot of R & D into this and only he knows the right price to charge based on that labor. Jens makes damn good German engineered products, they will not be the cheapest available. But they will be the best quality.

[amigadave]

I will not join in any name calling, but I do disagree with your thinking that new hardware for the Amiga that comes with a warranty should somehow be cheaper than old hardware on eBay.

[terminator4]

What, you have a crystal ball that can show what the sales numbers would be at $100 per unit compared to $140 per unit?  I don't think so!  I don't think anyone can guarantee that more profit would be made in the long run at different price points per unit.
.

Its the same as Amiga One, then SAM board.  If it was better priced it would sell better and to more amiga users.
I bet Genesi did better job at selling their boards in terms of quantity.  Seems more Morph than OS4 developers.  but then i'm getting off topic.  Pricing has been a challenge in Amiga world, but perhaps time has come for change?  If not this platform will stay where it is dead or almost non-player.  Oh its pretty sad to see how many are willing to pay big $ for hardware but few are willing to pay for software (new or used).  This is the vault with Amiga community.  I bought all my software.

[Tahoe]

However, making larger quantities of the products would sell more at better prices of that i have no doubt.

And you still think there is a market for it? Come on, think again, do you seriously think he will sell anything close to 1000 units?

Maybe if Commodore still existed.

[terminator4]

I will not join in any name calling, but I do disagree with your thinking that new hardware for the Amiga that comes with a warranty should somehow be cheaper than old hardware on eBay.

amigadave,
I respect your opinion.  Just it seems that you can make it new in batch of 1000 (i'm guessing at least, but why not make 2000 or 3000 so people can buy 2 or 3???) then surely you can keep costs down below some vintage piece on ebay?  anyway pricing if you are seller / manufacturer / vendor is a matter of preference.  
Lets say it costs Jens $20 to produce each board, he can still charge $90 and $10 would go to dealer (a 10% return on resale & support is quite high, margin in pc industry is much lower than that).  BTW, a true value for Amber 2320 is more like $75-100.  Thats what it used to cost 2-3-4 years ago, before Amiga went ebay.  Anyway I just thought to give suggestion, nothing more.  I will still buy 1 one those (if it was better priced id get 2 or 3).

THANK YOU for making the flicker fixer possible. (no sarcasm, seriously).

[mingle]

Most of my "Amiga" tinkering is done via WinUAE these day, but if I was still bashing my A500 I'd have one of these in the blink of an eye...

To me this product is truly brilliant. It's obviously taken a lot of time and hard work to develop and I reckon a bargain at the price.

Mike.

[Jakodemus]

It isn't Jens fault that the US dollar is at so low these days. 100 euros is great price for a new scandoubler.