AmigaOS 4.1 for 68k, and i got mad :)

[bernd_afa]

>Read about my personal pipe-dream:

>http://lilliput.host-cafe.com/TechDetails2.htm

>...and feel free to comment

when look at the compare between MOS and OS4 on same Hardware can see that OS4 is slower

http://obligement.free.fr/articles/amigaos41_vs_morphos23.php

also memalloc is slower on OS4

So i think when you run OS4 on a 68060 CPU its slower as classic AOS with AFA also OS4 use more the MMU, need more mem etc.

not sure what OS4 programs you want so you need OS4, but all programs that are on OS4 can on classic too compile, if the Author support it.and with AFA is AOS enhance to support some AOS4 funcs (icon lib)

If the prog OS4 Author not support 68k, then there help also no 68k AOS4

if you want a grimreaper you can run guardianangle with option fatalhits.

then every illegal memory access bring a requester.

[bernd_afa]

>But my goal was to enhance AmigaOS 3.9 68k functionality and sort of create AmigaOS >4.1 for 68k

I see in your List, you write for OS4 MUI4.0.thats wrong.OS4 have only a MUI3.9 thats simular to 3.8.

on 68k you can enhance MUI with zune.so can here too reach MUI4 functionality.

>And i was hoping you could reconsider making afa to work with setups with less than >16bit, that would be great, at least for me

AFA work with 8 bit, but the new AFA skin system look not nice.
waewa have done some sysiclass image so it look as old.or you can deactivate it and use visual prefs as before.

But when run the workbench in 16 bit, all is much faster, try it out, because Icons need not remap images not remap and dither etc.

The days of 8 bit OS are over, images and webpages look ugly so all modern OS do not support 8 bit anymore.AROS too not work well on 8 bit, and i not spend work to support 8 bit

even a amiga with a very slow gfx card is in 16 bit faster as on 8 bit when show images or icons.

and a amiga without graphic card, does this somebody use as main System and he have no other system that support 16 bit display ?

sure i know there are a few guys that have a amiag 1200 unaccelaret and they want use it, when there run a modern with 2 megabyte ram, show with copperlists more than 256 colors, but i know thats not possible so not work on it.

I see you ignore AFA complete in your compare list btw.

[bernd_afa]

>it should functionally supported for the sole reason that it is available. otherwise it is like >letting a program to run into a known error without handling it. a good program should not >look trashed beyond return, on any display. it is unacceptable.

Yes of course all bitdepths bit work without crash.i use too some programs that work on 8 bit aga screen some time.and here it is better to do not show any skin and use old AOS look.
when AGA program use a 16 color screen, then a visual prefs skin look too not nice.

But what i mean is use Workbench in 8 bit is not need or if a User need it, he dont need the new skin, because the skins need so much Pens that there are no pens free for other images or Icons.

so all in all also use of birdie/visual prefs is not usefull when you use only 256 colors or AGA.it slow system too much down on AGA and use too much Pens only for Skin/window buttons show show.and missing pens give then more ugly look.

and thats what AFA do with new skin system, when use 256 or less colors, windows look same as on original AOS and need not more pens and are as fast as on normal AOS

[bernd_afa]

>with locked colortable this should be a way to handle 8bit screens.
>just an idea.

yes its possible but please write a formular that work fast to find the correct color.
256 colors are only fast enough if you still have a GFX Card.when you want use AGA all more than 64 colors slow much down.

But if you have a GFX Card you can use 16 bit mode and need no 8 bit.

when you load a Icon, or image, for every palette entry need search in the palette a color  that is close to the color in the image.You need decide on what tolerance you want alloc a new pen entry.you can also use a fixed pallette, but this slow color finding lots down, because all 256 entries must search for best matching color.

when you have a image that is truecolor and have 1 Million Pixels(the cheapest handy have 1 megapixel resolution), then for every of the 1 Million pixels you need in the 256 color palette search for a matching color.

this make average 128 Millions searches.and when your CPU have only 50 MHZ, need more than 3 sec.but it should be sure, that for search of the best color every color check need more than 10 CPU clocks.So we are at 15sec to show this image.but not all users have a 060/50 CPU.so its more slower.

this work as soon there are not much diffrent images to show.But sooner or later you have diffrent colored images and get also with optimized palette problems.

try some pictures with much green or a face or something like this.

so you see optimize palette is way too slow to be usefull.only can do is do a formular and do the 256 color alloc as 2 bit red 3 bit green 3 bit blit value.

but this look ugly too, because most Icons do not fit in this sheme and look ugly.

also when a User have AGA he can only use 640*256 64 colors, all is gone more worse.

its very bad quality, so i cant believe if there somebody really use his amiga today as Main Computer and have no GFX Card

I have ask the question often, but get no answer.

Who have only a amiga and no other computer and use only 256 color screens ?
maybe we can make a poll.

and if somebody have another system he can use UAE on this and 16 bit screen to see the pictures in full quality.

[bernd_afa]

In the Poll does not stand i have only a amiga with no GFX Card AND i use it as Main system for E-Mail image processing and surfing.

>In general people using classic amiga hardware has no gfx card, i bet >for it.

I know that there are lots amigas used for play games, and lots that want run firefox at a A1200 with 2 megabyte of RAM and show truecolor pictures that look same es on the PC.

But if this not here, then they dont use Amiga for that. ;-)
and reaching this quality is not possible without GFX Card.So i need not try it out.

>no searching, just a small pice of code:


>morph:
>; d0 15Bit color (%000rrrrrgggggbbbbb)
>lea converter,a3 ; colortable
>add.l d0,a3
>move.b (a3),d1
>; d1 pennumber for matching 8bit color

ok this work fast, but quality is bad.On AFA obtainBestPen func can change to work with such a palette.

But i think when i add this to AFA there come soon some comments, AOS do better quality on 8 bit.

Or maybe the solution is to convert all images in grey images when use 8 bit.there are some guys that like black white fotos so they can use a black white computer.maybe that bring more amiga Users
 ;-)

AFA is opensource, feel free to add this and PNG Icon show this.

wawa work on enhance AFA too and he have add nicer window Buttons on 8 bit modes.

I have no time for a feature i dont need.

[bernd_afa]

@Gulliver

Now you have written AFA in the line of MUI.

But in GUI line still stand - visual prefs

AFA is here to add the most important functions that make OS4 far ahead in compare to AOS 3.9.

AFA enhance GUI, have system wide truetype fonts and antialiasing, support 32 bit OS4 Icons, picture datatype with alphachannel,realtime skin system, that can scale border to any size very fast.truecolor Icons can scale in realtime and can faster show

look here, many features OS4 dont have.

http://amidevcpp.amiga-world.de/AfA_Screenshots/215.png
http://amidevcpp.amiga-world.de/AfA_Screenshots/136.png
http://amidevcpp.amiga-world.de/AfA_Screenshots/146.png

there are more screenshots

http://amidevcpp.amiga-world.de/afa_screenshot_upload.php

[bernd_afa]

>I think there should be an option to use AFA_OS with Ratte's solution under 8bit screens >for ppl who want it, just optional and anyone does what he likes. I know I'll use it....

Does OS4 work in 8 bit Mode on Workbench, or the cyberstorm OS4 Version work without GFX Card  ?
From MOS i kwow it do not work in 8 bit.I test Chaos Pro which is a fraktal program that support animation thru color cycling of 8 bit palette.colorcycling work well with AFA, but on MOS Cyberstorm color cycling do not work.so it seem not support 8 bit screens also not on custom screens and Cyberstorm.A AGA display i also cant open.

[bernd_afa]

>by the way os4 supports 8bit as far as i recall,

try out what OS4 do, when it should show a PNG Icon or a OS4 Icon on a AGA /8 bit workbench and how Skins look.

>it is os3.x after all and since it supports

As you can see all modern OS do not support 8 bit in desktop, so it doesnt matter if its AOS for amiga or windows for X86.

>the pople that do not need it will not notice, others will bless you.

right most do not notice it and the other few that want use AFA Workbench on 8 bit need only remove icon library in AFA and new skin system and all is as before.

Users that dont want use a 16 bit desktop, just need no enhanced Icon library, the old is good enough.

the trick explain at a1k Forum is not usefull for AGA Users,because AGA can not show 256 colors in acceptable speed.

the screenshot is done on 1024*768, no AGA system can show in acceptable speed.

[bernd_afa]

>Would you at least consider to support 15-bit screens? For BVision users like me, it saves >memory and speed as

15 bit screens do not save memory.when you choose a 15 bit mode 1 bit is always unused.all date need in real 2 bytes and thats 16 bit.

So use of 15 bit screen is not need and give slightly worser quality.

>I do open screens of 1920x1080x8bit (wordworth, dopus4 etc) that need no more than >256 colors, but look plain ugly without afaos

You mean look plain ugly with AFA OS ?

Here wawa is working to make nicer window buttons, so the white box for window gadgets is gone.with AFA skin system windows in 8 bit look same as standard AOS, you can switch off AFA skin system and use Visual prefs then.

Best is always use same resolution as workbench desktop, because a screen switch is then lots faster.and as soon you get a TFT, you cant use diffrent resolutions, because picture get unsharp when you use a resolution diffrent to TFT native resolution.

[bernd_afa]

>Also, are you aware that AFA-OS has some sort of conflict with Powerwindows iconify >function? Placing windows out of sight works fine, but the iconify function (which iconifies >ANY window, whether it has an iconify gadget or not) won't work if afaos is loaded. >Would it be possible to check it out plz?

The problem with powerwindows is same as with kingcon or other programs that create a own icon when no Icon is find for that action.

You need look with snoopdos(the filename) or in the powerwindow doc how can change the Icon for the iconifired window view.

then you need copy a Icon to the place and with correct name so powerwindow use this Icon.In the AFA doku it is explain more detailed what to do

[bernd_afa]

>take a look at what you said, but I think it's kinda different as PW's method does not >require a gadget to be drawn. And it's a great function to have really....

what does PW do, when you iconify a window ?

I think it draw a Gadget on workbench desktop.and i think this Gadget thats draw on worlbench can customize so you can use a own Gadget.and when you use a own Gadget it should work.

>Now, you mean next afa_os version will have gadgets in <16bit screens instead of white >boxes?

Here is a screenshot how AFA currently look on < 16 bit screens with the work of wawa.there need 2 Gadgets to do

http://www.daten-transport.de/ansicht.php?id=ZH35f56kFb4n

On default borders the buttons are correct center, the center problem is because i use larger borders.

to get chaos pro working well its important that the window borders do not use other colors than amiga default first 8 colors.

when its possible to use AFA or birdie skins on 8 bits, then there need 16 or more color Pens for this or the skin must remap and look more ugly as amiga default look

[bernd_afa]

>what PW does is by hitting a hotkey (in my case ralt + i) to iconify a window, but the >term "iconify" is kinda misleading here. It actually creates a small piece of workbench >window titlebar with a close gadget (that's optional) which can be moved around the >desktop as if it were a workbench window

now i understand what you mean, i know this feature too, but when i boot without AFA (press left mousebutton during boot) all is same as with AFA

when i press on the iconify button powerwindows add in window after start, i get a line with the windows title and the window jump to the right side.

only diffrence is, when use AFA the Gadget powerwindow add is not see in titlebar.there is a Gap if you use a skin with mid tile. and when you click on the Gap, it do exactly same as without AFA.

Maybe you start powerwindows before AFA ?
thats wrong, AFA is no patch because it replace functions, you need start powerwindows or other patches always after AFA start.

>actually only the close gadget is in place and the resize gadget looks more like it should >allthough it is still misplaced. best working and closest to what i want to achieve are >scroll gadgets for now and thex do not schow up.

but it show that there is some enhancents.the center depend on border size, I have written, change all to default that it look nicer.

the arrow gadgets you too have change, but i have no real world example that use scrollers.normaly workbench use arrow gadgets.but workbench is not need run in 8 bit.

[bernd_afa]

>What can I say? Here it works if I disable Afa and stops working after booting with Afa. >Puzzling, isn't it? I actually run PW long after Afa, a few lines after LoadWB, whereas Afa >is long before LoadWB is executed.

I test this file.

http://aminet.net/package/util/misc/PowerWindowsNG

maybe you try out powerwindows with the default settings.i use default Icon nice setting.there is option Icon visualprefs this maybe not work.

is the small bar show on AFA ?

look here a screenshot of AFA and powerwindowsng.

http://www.daten-transport.de/?id=xMhLs9sEyBsH

do you get this bars too on AFA ?

[bernd_afa]

@brnd_afa

no I don't have this :/ I'll try what you suggested tomorrow, with default settings and I'll tell you how it went. Thx for your help man

please backup your old config, and when it work with default setting send me the old config that not work, so i can see wy there is problem

[bernd_afa]

@Vulture
>Only problem is that now on MUI windows I have 2 igadgets that function differently, but >it's not a big deal, it works and it's ok.

MUI allow to switch off the Gadgets in MUI prefs window page.so you can switch off MUI iconify.

I test powerwindowsng now with the Option No iconify Gadget for windows or No Icons.

I get same behaviour with and without AFA and 2 test installs (OS3.5 and OS3.9).As soon no Icon is show Hotkey do not work.I use default hotkey for Test, rcommand+ shift+ i

maybe you use diffrent settings with and without AFA or have other AOS ?