3G iPhone

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NoFastMem wrote:
Can't afford one... Maybe if the capacity was much greater, I'd be into it. I could ditch my proper iPod and justify it that way.

But I've nearly filled my 160GB Classic and I've got a perfectly functional phone anyway. Maybe in a few years when SSD is cheaper.

For me a 32gig iPhone would be the sweet spot... but I am making do with 16...

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mdwh2 wrote:
I got a 3G phone years ago, no queuing required

bloodline wrote:
Well, Like the Amiga in the '80s, the iPhone brings together a lot of different pre-existing technologies into one single platform. It does so at a price and form factor that is convienient and useful for the average user.

It has a focus on multimedia in a market that has been lacking in that area for a long time.

The iPhone is the new Amiga.

Not really, it's more like a new Windows 95: Bringing together things that other products have done years before

All the Amiga did was bring together pre-existing technologies, the amiga just had exactly what the market needed in one single package.

 but for some reason getting lots more hype.

Because the Phone/Mobile device market was stagnant... it has been around for about 10 years and companies had become obsessed with adding things like higher resolution cameras... without innovating or even giving the user what the user actually wants!

The Market has traditionally been aimed at boring geeks who love to sprout off numbers and specs... Apple make devices for real people.

The only thing nifty about the Iphone that's not so common in other phones is touchscreen, but even so that's not unique (and I don't think Apple were the first with this feature, either?)

There is nothing innovative about the touchscreen (except perhaps that Apple use a capacitive screen and the others tend to use pressure sensitive screens)... Touchscreen have been around for years, and no one ever found them useful... It is the user interface under the touchscreen that Apple got right. All the other manufacturers thought that the interface under the touchscreen didn't need to be updated from the old mouse driven model... they even required a stylus!!! Apple developed a new interface, that was designed to be driven by the users finger... that is why the iPhone feels so great to use.

 Also no Amiga had a bug as fundamental as not having copy/paste.

As stated by in the Apple Technology conferences... that was a design decision... It was a feature that needed more time to develop and the decision was to leave it out of V2.0 and focus on feature that would be more useful to the general public.

What's odd is that a lot of features hyped about the Iphone aren't even unique to smartphones (e.g., accessing the Internet, or multimedia).

Because you are a computer geek, don't understand the concept of usability. The iPhone integrates these features into a single usable package. the iPhone's internet browser is about a billion years ahead of any other mobile device!!! I don't even bother with turning real computers on any more!!!

Although I might agree that it's a "new Amiga" in the sense of a "post Commodore new Amiga" rather than "groundbreaking like the A1000 was" - lacks Java, overpriced, lags behind in features like 3G...

The A1000 lacked standard features like CP/M compatibility.
The A1000 lagged behind others, I note the Atari's MIDI ports.
The A1000 was massively more expensive than the competition.

Don't look back with rose tinted glasses.

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mdwh2 wrote:

bloodline wrote:
All the Amiga did was bring together pre-existing technologies, the amiga just had exactly what the market needed in one single package.

The Amiga was first to bring it in a single package. The Iphone wasn't. (What does it bring in a single package?) It's Windows 95 - doing what other phones have done for years (including in a single package).

You are just arguing semantics, I notice you removed my criticism of the A1000.

Both Win95 and the Amiga did something special, bringing together technology, in a way the market needed. That is why they were popular.

Because the Phone/Mobile device market was stagnant... it has been around for about 10 years and companies had become obsessed with adding things like higher resolution cameras... without innovating or even giving the user what the user actually wants!

Not here in Europe it isn't.

I don't know what it's like in Europe, but I assume it's like the UK...

Phones have changed dramatically in the last 10 years, going from simple devices with only SMS and maybe WAP, to basically being mobile computing devices, with fast Internet connection, video, music, being able to run applications. That's on a bog-standard low end phone.

No, they added these features... they didn't integrate them.

 The Iphone isn't bad, but in what sense has it revolutionised a "stagnant" market?

Every other phone manufacturer is now trying to make their phones more like the iPhone... We had insane demand worldwide, for the device.

People in the street are talking about the iPhone... I've not seen that happen in the mobile market for a long time if at all...

Why do things like "high resolution cameras" get dismissed as things no one wants, but being able to play music like an Ipod gets cited as a good thing?

The iPhone has a totally new user interface. It has fully integrated network functionality into the basic functionality of the device... Apps work together, the web browser is central to the functionality to the device. The App Store and iTunes store integration are unique... and Yes, it has a built in iPod, which is the worlds most popular media player, which is a nice value add.

The Market has traditionally been aimed at boring geeks who love to sprout off numbers and specs... Apple make devices for real people.

Where do you live? The mobile market has practically reached 100%. And whilst smartphones may be more a niche market, (a) the Iphone hasn't changed this (it's still mainly geeks that seem to talk about it), and (b) smartphones are not only used by "boring geeks".

The UK... and yes the Mobile Market is 100%... there is no way for a manufacturer to get an in... without something special... which Apple have managed to do.

Real people are talking about the iPhone... people are saying... "I was going to get an iPod, but I might as well get an iPhone". Real people can use the iPhone, I showed my HP 4510 to my grandparents a few years ago they were just confused by it... even my father (an engineer by trade), had little interest in the device... I showed these same people the iPhone, and they get it... even my grandmother who is now suffering from the early stages of Alzheimer's had no difficulty operating the device and even figured out the Photo app and looked at photos of my trip to Germany!

There is nothing innovative about the touchscreen (except perhaps that Apple use a capacitive screen and the others tend to use pressure sensitive screens)

But isn't multitouch the key point that's a recent development? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-touch says that the Iphone was the first phone to have multi-touch. So yes, I'll concede that this was an innovation, but it also means you can't say their interface was better with the same technology, when the technology had a fundamental distinction. And also there are other new phones that have multitouch now. As time progresses, phones become more advanced - that's always the case, there's always new phones coming out which are cutting edge the moment they are released. There's nothing special about the Iphone in the big picture.

Yeah, and this is why neither you or I work in that industry... we don't have the vision to make the iPhone... Unlike the other Phone Manufactures, Apple never stand still, they can't afford to.

As stated by in the Apple Technology conferences... that was a design decision... It was a feature that needed more time to develop and the decision was to leave it out of V2.0 and focus on feature that would be more useful to the general public.

The more I hear about it, the more it gets worse. Not having copy and paste is a _design decision_? I don't need a phone that makes those sorts of design decisions.

No, you don't, the iPhone wasn't made for you!! It was made for real people who don't use smart phones!

Apple designs it's technology for real people!

Because you are a computer geek, don't understand the concept of usability. The iPhone integrates these features into a single usable package. the iPhone's internet browser is about a billion years ahead of any other mobile device!!! I don't even bother with turning real computers on any more!!!

As a computer geek, I am most certainly aware of UI concepts. It's Iphone lovers who claim it has a better UI, but are suspiciously never able to explain how it is better. Phones have been combining these features into a single usable package for years.

I explained over and over again... it's a natural interface, it works the way real people work, people who don't care about computers... technology... specs... The iPhone doesn't even have have menus or access to the underlying file system!! Everything is designed around the user and not the underlying technology!!! You don't need to care how or why the phone works... it just does!

The Iphone's browser isn't any better than that on many smartphones - and even bog standard phones can run Opera Mini now, anyway.

This is just wrong... Not one single review of the iPhone, has ever said the Browser is no better than any other phone... in fact even the most negative iPhone reviews have said they iPhone web browser is a shining beacon in a sea of terrible browsers...

The iPhone is the most used mobile web browser, despite the iPhone not having the biggest market share!!!!

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smithy wrote:
I don't see what all the fuss is about.  It's a phone with a web browser.  And it's locked down tighter than Fort Knox so Apple can control YOUR phone.  That was never the spirit of Amiga.

I never said the iPhone was the spirit of Amiga, the two devices existed in very different markets and computing environments. The Amiga was an entertainment and hobby device... If I had to rely on my Amiga as much as I do on the iPhone... I would want it to be locked down just as tight! The iPhone is not a hobby device, I can't really afford to mess around and have it fail on me.

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smithy wrote:

bloodline wrote:

smithy wrote:
I don't see what all the fuss is about.  It's a phone with a web browser.  And it's locked down tighter than Fort Knox so Apple can control YOUR phone.  That was never the spirit of Amiga.

I never said the iPhone was the spirit of Amiga, the two devices existed in very different markets and computing environments. The Amiga was an entertainment and hobby device... If I had to rely on my Amiga as much as I do on the iPhone... I would want it to be locked down just as tight! The iPhone is not a hobby device, I can't really afford to mess around and have it fail on me.

So you're saying it's the "21st century Amiga" and "the new Amiga", but at the same time it doesn't have the spirit of the Amiga?   :-?

Quite!!! The spirit of the Amiga was about a low cost games machine capible of serious work...

The iPhone has a different spirit.

I don't see how it bears any resemblence to the Amiga.  It's a fashion label that has a commodity mobile phone with a web browser underneath it that you pay a premium for because of the fashion label.

Come on, I know you and you are not stupid, so don't act stupid just to prove your point!

I was referring to the market fit that the Amiga and the iPhone have.

The Amiga brought together a collection of  technologies and integrated them into a single package in a way that was right for the market.

The iPhone has done the same... Had Commodore been as good at marketing as Apple are... the Amiga might have been here now.

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smithy wrote:
bloodline wrote:

Come on, I know you and you are not stupid, so don't act stupid just to prove your point!

I was referring to the market fit that the Amiga and the iPhone have.

The Amiga brought together a collection of  technologies and integrated them into a single package in a way that was right for the market.

Yes, the Amiga brought together technologies that had previously only been seen on high-end workstations, added a lot of its own technology to the mix, and entered a market with no real comparative competitor for years to come.

After a quick wiki of the the available machines from 1980 onwards... the Amiga didn't offer anything new... I was going to suggest the Operating system... but between the Sinclair QL nd the Apple Mac... the Amiga had nothing new.

The iPhone does none of these three things.

At launch there were already half a dozen phones on the market that do the same thing.  It has no technological advantage over its equivalents from Sony Ericsson and the like.

At Launch there were plenty of machines with the capabilities as the Amiga... And the Amiga was too expensive to catch on... as soon as Commodore Cost reduced the machine to the A500... that's when it took off.

The iPhone has done the same... Had Commodore been as good at marketing as Apple are... the Amiga might have been here now.

Indeed, as you rightly point out, the hype around the iPhone is due to marketing, not technology.  Technofashion has driven the iPhone's sales, not technology.  That's the polar opposite to Amiga.

It might not be the same, but it is equivalent, the Market is not the same as it was in 1985... And Apple have done exactly what the market wanted.

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A4000_Mad wrote:
Posting from an iPhone up the town in O2 shop
 ;-)  :-D  :-(  :lol:  :oops:

BUY BUY BUY :-D

-Edit- Posting from an iPhone too :-)

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Speelgoedmannetje wrote:

quarkx wrote:

bloodline wrote:


It might not be the same, but it is equivalent, the Market is not the same as it was in 1985... And Apple have done exactly what the market wanted.

 :laughing: OMG! "Apple have done what the MARKET Wanted?" I think not! If you do a little research, APPLE did not even build or design the I-phone, but subcontracted everything to HTC. Even your so called MAC OSX is nothing more than BSD re-branded. Apple could have re-launched a brick phone from 1990 and it would have sold EXACTLY the same amount to all the MaC Heads out there. Apple do not re-invent the wheel, they did not do ANYTHING really innovate with the Iphone. It simple was a marketing fad that caught on because of its bling factor. simple
It's only the brain-washed people that cant see the forest for the trees.
APPLE to their credit has a incredible marketing department. and if they launch (or re launch) the newton, it will sell just as many units as the I phones because the MAC heads have to have it.
At the end of the day, it is just a regular piece of technology.simple. This argument is starting to sound like a bunch of crack addicts justifying their addictions.

It's not about technology, it's what they do with it.
The Palm wasn't technology-wise revolutionary either. Though  how you could use it, made it, say, much more useable.

I avoided quarkx's post because it was so wrong my eyes started to bleed when I read it...

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quarkx wrote:

bloodline wrote:

I avoided quarkx's post because it was so wrong my eyes started to bleed when I read it...

The truth hurts- nothing wrong at all with my post!

Err... it started with the factual error and went down hill from there..

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smithy wrote:

quarkx wrote:
APPLE to their credit has a incredible marketing department. and if they launch (or re launch) the newton, it will sell just as many units as the I phones because the MAC heads have to have it.
At the end of the day, it is just a regular piece of technology.simple. This argument is starting to sound like a bunch of crack addicts justifying their addictions.

Partly true, but Apple's recent success is not thanks to the Macheads.  Remember, back in the 90s, Apple was going down the toilet.

Commodity hardware has saturated the Geek market... there is no way you can sell computer system to computer geeks anymore.

They brought Jobs back who packaged up all new Apples in funky & cool looking cases and packaging and managed to create a fashion icon with the Apple brand.  

If you want to sell complete computer systems, then you have to appeal to the mass market. I have nothing but respect for Jobs being able to sell the original iMac... it was technologically retarded, PPC and MacOS 8... but he knew how to make them popular.

Nowadays, you still have the Macheads, but there is another layer of loyal Apple fanboys (as opposed to Mac fanboys - and dare I say, we've witnessed some of them in this thread ;-) ) who drool over such things as the IPhone and its entirely useless brother the phoneless-iphone that is the iTouch.

"MacHeads" won't sell you computers... fanboys won't sell you computers... you need to appeal to the common man to sell computers.

If you want a media player, do you buy the one with the most highly developed media infrastructure, the best interface and full PDA functionality... or do you buy a product just because it doesn't have an Apple logo on it?

edit:
If I was a Machead, by the way, I'd be most displeased.  Every new MacCon event (or whatever they're called) they unveil some new Apple gadget rather than something exciting like a new Mac external drive, doubly gaulling that it's a MAC event not an Apple event(!).  It does seem that the focus is being taken away from the Mac.

You can't sell computers like that any more... this is why you are where you are and why Steve Jobs is one of the most sucessful business men in history!

The computer is a commodity device now... we are not in the 20th century anymore... the 80's were fun, but they are gone.

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A4000_Mad wrote:

Buy an 8GB card off the Internet for £23.90. Use the N95's 5megapixel camera to take awsome pix. Set it to 'Close-up mode' for Hi Res shots of things like mobo components etc. Put it in video mode and use it as a camcorder to record your loved ones in DVD-Like quality. Put in MP3's of your favourite music and make the most of its stereo speakers.

If not, I'll have it please :-D

I have to agree, the quality of the N95's camera is great... if for not for any other reason, use the N95 for its camera!