Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Faerytale on January 29, 2016, 10:18:37 PM
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http://apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=3¬e=275
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Awesome :)
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Waiting for the Amiga 500!
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Nice to see Atheist is still around.......
....... and still crazy. :P
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SAGA? Super AGA ?
Are there still any reasons left to wait for an A1200 version?
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SAGA? Super AGA ?
Are there still any reasons left to wait for an A1200 version?
Not everyone got A600 ;)
But Im sure quite a few are considering purchasing A600 for this card alone.
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Super AGA?
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http://apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=3¬e=275
That's the P96 fullHD frame buffer you see.
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Not everyone got A600 ;)
But Im sure quite a few are considering purchasing A600 for this card alone.
That would be me also.
Expecting A600 prices to rise maybe ?
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That's the P96 fullHD frame buffer you see.
What does SAGA mean then ?
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SAGA is the graphics architecture developed by the Apollo team. It will provide new screen modes and other features for Vampire 2 equipped Amigas via the digital video output connector on the Vampire 2. To take advantage of these new features suitable drivers/software such as a P96 driver will be needed.
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SAGA? Super AGA ?
Are there still any reasons left to wait for an A1200 version?
A1200+Vampire2 will have some small advantages. Full keyboard, easy installation in trapdoor (clipping a board on top of the A600 CPU is the only way to accelerate it and it's hardly an ideal way to upgrade a computer) allowing quick access to the microSD card slot. Rear expansion allows Vampire video to be got from the Amiga 1200 without modifying the motherboard or case with a suitable back door. The V1200 design isn't out yet so it may have improvements over the V600.
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SAGA is the graphics architecture developed by the Apollo team. It will provide new screen modes and other features for Vampire 2 equipped Amigas via the digital video output connector on the Vampire 2. To take advantage of these new features suitable drivers/software such as a P96 driver will be needed.
To add to this: Currently, all custom chip functionalities are carried out by the native custom chips on the A600 motherboard. Which means that the native video output is coming from the native A600 VGA output, whereas the rtg screen mode output is the HDMI output of the vampire.
Now, if the SAGA emulaton moves into the core, the emulated chipset will be part of the FPGA and hence will generate its video output on HDMI as well.
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amibay crowd is in rage.. looks like a small revolution!
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Some Vampire v2 600 confusion cleared up ;)
Vampire refers to the product which clips onto the top of the Amiga CPU and takes over the entire Amiga system bus. It has a re-implemented compatible CPU (Apollo CPU), re-implements some Amiga custom chips (providing, for example, SAGA support) and uses FPGA (Field Programmable Gate Array) which means it can be frequently reprogrammed with new firmware. It has HDMI out via a flex connector, and SD card support to act as a hard disk (yet to be finalised). Vampire also has far more memory than classic Amigas (128MB fastmem) with lower latency and higher bandwidth.
FPGA is *not* emulation and is comparable to how most processors work. FPGA has a vast array of gates which have wires between them that can be reprogrammed to connect to different gates. Processors also have gates but are normally hardwired for the purpose of cheaper costs with very large production runs and finalised chip logic. FPGA therefore has more wiring between gates. Less wiring and fewer gates to ease wire routing means higher density, leading to higher efficiency, lower die sizes, and higher clocks due to lower power requirements.
The Apollo CPU is a greatly enhanced version of the CPU found within classic Amigas, more like a 68060 without the MMU (Memory Management Unit) but remaining instruction-compatible with the classic 68000 found within Amiga 500/600 and 68020 in Amiga 1200/CD32. Apollo has 64-bit instructions in additional to the classic instructions, stuff like MMX/SSE, and is super-scalar, meaning it can do far more work in one clock cycle than classic processors (when software is written or modified explicitly for Apollo), and is additionally clocked higher. Apollo has an FPU which supports all mathematical operations but the team are still working/testing on the integration (ADD/SUB/MUL/DIV etc. works perfectly).
SAGA is an enhancement of AGA which has additional screenmodes and larger number of colours and supports chunky pixels. With SAGA as the 'video chip', P96 is the software driver that uses the 'chip' which has a small additional fee as it required licensing. P96 is a 'ReTargetable Graphics' (RTG) driver which allows you to run RTG games and software, stuff that doesn't necessarily require the built-in Amiga custom chips to function. RTG stuff was common in the late Amiga era with high-end hardware such as video cards attached via the Zorro bus. If the optional P96 driver is not purchased, RTG support will not function, but SAGA will still work. However, the Apollo team is looking into a deal with the P96 developers where the driver licensing cost can be rolled into the final product cost.
Vampire will eventually take over the work of all the Amiga custom chips, as development continues.
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Some Vampire v2 600 confusion cleared up ;)
Excellent post. So much stupid posts on forums and misinformation that its refreshing to read a sane one for a change.
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Can you post the specs of SAGA? Or is that one of those things that's still changing? Thanks! :)
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Vampire doesn't seem to provide any USB ports. Is there a chance the A1200 version will?
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If the optional P96 driver is not purchased, RTG support will not function, but SAGA will still work.
How/Where do I purchase the P96 driver? What does it cost?
Any ETA on when SAGA is going to be available? Am I right to assume it will take over the video from the hardwired chipset on poweron so be able to view Early Startup Menu through HDMI?
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How/Where do I purchase the P96 driver? What does it cost?
Any ETA on when SAGA is going to be available? Am I right to assume it will take over the video from the hardwired chipset on poweron so be able to view Early Startup Menu through HDMI?
you cant. my assumption is that when the driver and licensing agreement is finalized all will be included in vampire and its pricing. i hope early stratup will be accessible from hdmi, it would make sense.
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Apolla team are negotiating with the Picasso96 guys, as soon as an agreement is reached the outcome will be disclosed. This should be very soon.
Sorry I don't know when full SAGA will be available. I think you are correct that it will take over on power up but I can't swear to it.
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Apolla team are negotiating with the Picasso96 guys, as soon as an agreement is reached the outcome will be disclosed. This should be very soon.
Sorry I don't know when full SAGA will be available. I think you are correct that it will take over on power up but I can't swear to it.
I hope that the development roadmap for Picasso96 will also be disclosed. I hope that Picasso96 has a future.
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How/Where do I purchase the P96 driver? What does it cost?
Sorry folks. We're right in the middle of negotiations (yes, really), and it would not be wise to release any price point at this time. I'll leave this to the Apollo team to announce the results once we have one (I hope.).
Yes, this *naturally* also implies that *if* we get the deal done that P96 will go into some type of "maintenance mode" again (from the Zombie state it is currently in).
So please, keep fingers crossed that all involved parties find together.
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What's to stop anyone using the CGXAGA driver for RTG screenmodes on this future Super AGA chipset?
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What's to stop anyone using the CGXAGA driver for RTG screenmodes on this future Super AGA chipset?
While I cannot decide what will finally happen, one particular model that was under discussion was to enable the extended graphics modes requiring P96 in the FPGA only if the user paid for the option. The FPGA core that includes the extended modes would be registered to the serial number of the core such that the upgrade could only be applied to the specific core the option was paid for.
This way, you would not need to pay the additional license fees, but you would neither be able to apply the upgrade without paying for it. It's probably the most flexible option for the user.
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Would love to see this advance to the point an A3000(T) / A4000(T) version is viable!
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While I cannot decide what will finally happen, one particular model that was under discussion was to enable the extended graphics modes requiring P96 in the FPGA only if the user paid for the option. The FPGA core that includes the extended modes would be registered to the serial number of the core such that the upgrade could only be applied to the specific core the option was paid for.
This way, you would not need to pay the additional license fees, but you would neither be able to apply the upgrade without paying for it. It's probably the most flexible option for the user.
If that's an option would it be possible to purchase the license later or will the card be crippled for life?
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If that's an option would it be possible to purchase the license later or will the card be crippled for life?
You're asking the wrong guy, I don't make the card. But, technically, you can of course flash a new core at any time that would include the option, so technically, it is all possible. The upgrade procedure would then require a match of the serial number in the core so you wouldn't be able to flash the same upgrade multiple times to multiple cards.