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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Topic started by: SysAdmin on August 04, 2011, 04:24:12 AM
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Wellington, 4th August 2011
The "Golden" Child - Nemo revision 2.1
A-EON Technology is pleased to announce that the Nemo revision 2.1 "gold" motherboard has passed inspection and full production of boards destined for the AmigaOne X1000 betatest team is now underway. AmigaKit, the official distributor of the A1-X1000, will take delivery of the first batch of boards from Varisys next week and will begin shipments to team members shortly after.
Link: Video of Nemo revision 2.1 motherboard in production - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceePT8mOguM
In other good news Steven Solie, the AmigaOS Development Team Leader, has confirmed that AmigaOS4.2, the latest version of the Amiga Operating System will be released with the AmigaOne X1000.
Link: http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/
Let's "Keep this party going!"
The AmigaOne X1000 is not like other computers. It is the natural evolution of the Amiga's PowerPC lineage and is a culmination of efforts by real Amiga enthusiasts, developers and betatesters to create powerful, modern desktop hardware for the Amiga Operating System.
Please visit the A-EON Technology website at http://www.a-eon.com for more details.
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damn that videos got me mesmorized..must ...watch..just...one ...more ...time:insane::drink::cool:
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OH Yeah! :hammer:
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OH Yeah! :hammer:
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Wow that was cool! :)
So how long does it take for the robot to make a single board? :confused:
I don't know why but i can feel the emotion that has gone into the Nemo boards and this wants me wanting to go out and buy one because of this :)
More than what i can say about the C64X... :(
How much would these boards cost on their own without everything else included? :confused:
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I don't know why but i can feel the emotion that has gone into the Nemo boards and this wants me wanting to go out and buy one because of this :)
More than what i can say about the C64X... :(
For me it's exactly the other way around; I think the new Commodore 64 is a really cool product with some personality that is also usable for real, while this x1000 is just... well, redundant!
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Boom!!
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Great news, good work to all involved.
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For me it's exactly the other way around; I think the new Commodore 64 is a really cool product with some personality that is also usable for real, while this x1000 is just... well, redundant!
No, your post is redundant
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Great video!
This is whats its all about. :-)
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A new Amiga is born *sniff*
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For me it's exactly the other way around; I think the new Commodore 64 is a really cool product with some personality that is also usable for real, while this x1000 is just... well, redundant!
Obviously you aint right in the head... :)
The C64x "COOL"... aye right... and so's my grannies old phonogram that I added a few LED's to so that while it gouged me old records to death at least it flashed some nice wee light while doing so... :rolleyes:
Why the frig is something "redundant" if it does run poxy Windoze or Crapple software !!!
It's an AMIGA it's meant to be different not another friggin piece of same old crap that you can buy in any high street store just to run bloated and naff software on... :)
Stick to you're overpriced C64 emulator and leave real computers to the rest of us... :D
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I just descided to get this, if it ever gets released. :P
I got a job yesterday, so hopefully I'll be able to save up enough by the time the X1000 is completed.
Is the est. still "north of €1500" ?
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A little late for me!
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A little late for me!
That begs the question WHY !!!
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but when can joe public buy it?
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Obviously you aint right in the head... :)
The C64x "COOL"... aye right... and so's my grannies old phonogram that I added a few LED's to so that while it gouged me old records to death at least it flashed some nice wee light while doing so... :rolleyes:
Why the frig is something "redundant" if it does run poxy Windoze or Crapple software !!!
It's an AMIGA it's meant to be different not another friggin piece of same old crap that you can buy in any high street store just to run bloated and naff software on... :)
Stick to you're overpriced C64 emulator and leave real computers to the rest of us... :D
The X1000 is standard PC components on a PCB inside a *generic PC case* sold at a *ridiculous high price* to brand name followers.
The C64X is standard PC components on a PCB inside a *very cool custom case* sold at *a quarter* of the X1000 price to brand name followers.
(Come to think of it - Having to run OS4 seems to be a suitable punishment for the people actually stupid enough of buying into the first option ;))
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The X1000 is standard PC components on a PCB inside a *generic PC case* sold at a *ridiculous high price* to brand name followers.
The C64X is standard PC components on a PCB inside a *very cool custom case* sold at *a quarter* of the X1000 price to brand name followers.
(Come to think of it - Having to run OS4 seems to be a suitable punishment for the people actually stupid enough of buying into the first option ;))
Really? By an X1000 today and sell for a profit in a few years time.
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The X1000 is standard PC components on a PCB inside a *generic PC case* sold at a *ridiculous high price* to brand name followers.
The C64X is standard PC components on a PCB inside a *very cool custom case* sold at *a quarter* of the X1000 price to brand name followers.
(Come to think of it - Having to run OS4 seems to be a suitable punishment for the people actually stupid enough of buying into the first option ;))
1) Suggestion...don't take on Franko :)
2) Erm...selling to brand name followers? You are a very confused person...CUSA anyone?
3) Your comments above are so wrong on so many levels
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but when can joe public buy it?
It depends on how well the beta test stage will go, obviously.
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Takemehomegrandma,
Don't throw stones if your house is made of glass, we are all Amiga fans and we shouldn't be quarreling, its like Vanilla vs. Chocolate, or maybe Toyota vs. Mercedes. Why do people buy a Mercedes? Because they like it. Don't shove your opinion down our throats, nobody will respect or take you seriously. Calling us stupid like you did is certainly not a mature way to handle a disagreement.
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The X1000 is standard PC components on a PCB inside a *generic PC case* sold at a *ridiculous high price* to brand name followers.
I'm no X1000 supporter, but I missed the part where a PowerPC CPU is "standard PC components..."
I'll give $10 to the first person to run Dhrystone on one of these; I want to see how my $375 4x2.5GHz G5 stacks up ;D
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There is a reason I have takemehomegrandma on my ignore list here..........
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I don't know why but i can feel the emotion that has gone into the Nemo boards and this wants me wanting to go out and buy one because of this :)
This is a statement that I can completely agree with. Purchasing an X1000 is an emotional action and I do not disagree with people satisfying their emotional needs, as long as they do it responsibly and still have money for rent and food after their purchases.
Congratulations to Trevor and all the people that have worked on this project to get it to this point. I hope that the completion of OS4 for this board goes smoothly and quickly, so the eager people that want to buy an X1000 system are able to get a nice working system soon.
OS4 is not for me yet, and may never be in the future, but I am happy for the OS4 users that are so excited to have this new hardware to use.
Personally, I think that it is wise for anyone interested in the Amiga to look at all alternatives before making a purchase decision, but I don't want to diminish anyone's excitement in the X1000 announcement.
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I'm no X1000 supporter, but I missed the part where a PowerPC CPU is "standard PC components..."
I'll give $10 to the first person to run Dhrystone on one of these; I want to see how my $375 4x2.5GHz G5 stacks up ;D
I'll give $100 (maybe more) to anyone that can get any Amiga-Like OS to take advantage of 2, 3, or 4 cores of your G5 system, or both CPU's in my Dual 2.7GHz G5 PowerMac system.
Until any Amiga-Like OS can run on your (or my) G5 PowerMac systems, the Dhrystone performance of OS4 on the X1000 compared to the Dhrystone performance of MacOSX, Linux, or any other OS on your G5 system, doesn't really interest me.
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They could spent 3 years porting 4.2 to Mac-Mini and everyone here could hop on the bandwagon for less money, community would explode again and the money from 4.2 would go into AmigaOS-x86.
Amiga world is like stocks at the moment, makes no sense lol :)
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I just descided to get this, if it ever gets released. :P
I got a job yesterday, so hopefully I'll be able to save up enough by the time the X1000 is completed.
Is the est. still "north of €1500" ?
Congrats on the job, hope it works out. Amiga fandom can be an expensive hobby and it's nice to reward yourself. You never know, maybe the X1000 will come out just as you get the cash saved up for it.
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Don't throw stones if your house is made of glass, we are all Amiga fans and we shouldn't be quarreling, its like Vanilla vs. Chocolate, or maybe Toyota vs. Mercedes.
or "amiga users are all equally stupid" :)
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They could spent 3 years porting 4.2 to Mac-Mini and everyone here could hop on the bandwagon for less money, community would explode again and the money from 4.2 would go into AmigaOS-x86.
Amiga world is like stocks at the moment, makes no sense lol :)
If you are going to start expecting "Sensible Actions" from the Amiga crowd now, you are living in a dream world.
(by the way, I agree that Hyperion made a huge mistake by not completing the work to port to the G4 MacMini. They could have had it finished long ago and would have 2 to 4 times as many OS4 users right now. After the disappointing results of comparing OS4 to MorphOS on the same hardware, the Pegasos2, maybe Hyperion did not want to port to another machine where more comparisons would be made that would make OS4 look bad).
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X86 AMigaOS, something we don't need. If you want X86 use AROS or AMithlon and don't taint the red/blue camps.
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X86 AMigaOS, something we don't need. If you want X86 use AROS and don't taint the red/blue camps.
yes i will please to have the amithlon as a present for my sister in nigeria.my offer is the 500 poundssterling please to give me tracking number i will transfer the moneys thankyouplease. in god be blessed my son
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Regardless of what anyone thinks about any particular platform, real or not.. ;-)
That's a wicked video.. ;-)
desiv
(Although, now that I think about.. "The Golden Child"?? Really? I mean, I didn't think it was as bad a movie as the critics did, but.. Really? ;-)
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I wish them and anyone who buys one the best of luck but I just think a linux pc with a quad or 6 core processor just blows it so far out of the water for 1/2 or 1/3 of its price.
Every day I say a prayer that the port to x86 or at least ARM. Staying on dead end power pc is such a waste of a perfectly nice (or will be eventually) OS.
Steven
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Every day I say a prayer that the port to x86 or at least ARM. Staying on dead end power pc is such a waste of a perfectly nice (or will be eventually) OS.
I don't have anything against the idea of an Intel or ARM port (as really, I'm not that invested in NG Amigoid OSes,) but I think it's a fallacy to think that PPC is a "dead end" while x86 is going to reign supreme forever. Architectures come and go, wax and wane, often multiple times before they die (if they ever really do.)
Hell, PPC itself was a rising star back in the early '90s, when Intel CPUs were clunky and terrible and RISC was going to be the Next Big Thing that would sweep away everything else forever. (IBM even tried to make that happen with a line of 603-based workstations and laptops, but it seems they forgot that they hadn't actually been the PC-industry leader since they invented a new bus and demanded that people pay them for the privilege of switching to it.) It's still not dead now, but that prophesied revolution certainly never happened.
x86/x64 has had a long and successful run and doesn't appear to be going anywhere for the moment, but this too shall pass. The real goal ought to be to have a portable OS, not to find the most popular architecture of the moment and hitch your wagon to that thinking it's always going to be there for you.
(And anyway, I don't believe PPC is a dead end, not while there's still plenty of inexpensive PPC hardware out there for the taking, much of which is quite good. Apple's made some shoddy machines for the low-end markets, but their high-end machines have been built to last, all the way back to the Mac II. I've just saved three G4 Power Macs from the recycle center, and for all the battering they've taken and as old as they are, they still run like new!)
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Really? By an X1000 today and sell for a profit in a few years time.
You know, the second hand market for OS4 hardware hasn't exactly been rocketing, we have that black on white. I doubt many people have sold their gear with profit, it's more like they should be glad if they find someone to buy it at all. Not that strange either, when pretty much all potential customers that happens to be interested in OS4 for some reason, has such a great interest in it that they already bought their gear for it (meaning: a great deal of the whole potential market already bought it). At $2500+ only the most extreme OS4 extremists will buy it (those who would buy anything with a boing ball slapped onto it, at any price, no matter what they get for their money). When these people bought it (how many, 100? 200? 300?), the market will be completely saturated. And if you *really* believe that at that point there will be such a strong demand from the "second hand market" after that point, that it will push up the price far beyond those initial $2500+ so you can make a profit on it, then I'm afraid there is something very fundamental you simply don't understand.
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The C64X is standard PC components on a PCB inside a *very cool custom case* sold at *a quarter* of the X1000 price to brand name followers.
2) Erm...selling to brand name followers? You are a very confused person...CUSA anyone?
(I'm quoting myself now, to see if you will see it yourself...)
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Don't throw stones if your house is made of glass, we are all Amiga fans and we shouldn't be quarreling, its like Vanilla vs. Chocolate, or maybe Toyota vs. Mercedes. Why do people buy a Mercedes?
Ah, a car analogy, how original. OK, I'll play along. Sure there are people buying Toyota Yaris cars, and there are people buying Mercedes SLK cars.
But you won't find people paying the Mercedes SLK price for a Toyota Yaris class car, buying from a car manufacturer that has proven incapable of providing the most basic support for important features a new-car owner in 2011 would expect, like breaks, transmission and instrumentation. This is X1000, and this is Hyperion with their OS.
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I wish them and anyone who buys one the best of luck but I just think a linux pc with a quad or 6 core processor just blows it so far out of the water for 1/2 or 1/3 of its price.
Every day I say a prayer that the port to x86 or at least ARM. Staying on dead end power pc is such a waste of a perfectly nice (or will be eventually) OS.
Steven
ARM would be OK, but PowerPC is not dead end. I use only PowerPC macs and they continue to run circles around most windows PCs other people I know own
I don't want to support Intel because the stuff out there is not anywhere near as good of quality as a PowerPC G4 Powerbook. Have had it for two years, its the nicest, prettiest and most inexpensive computer I have ever paid for (300) and it runs jsut fine. As long as good quality hardware remains, PowerPC is not dead. In a technical sense, Classic Amiga is dead then and we should move on, from reasoning presented from takemehomegrandma.
If you like Intel, use AROS, I personally hate it, and don't really want anything to change, except for a successful A1 X1k and such. If we could bring down the price of PPC Hardware by reaching into another market, somehow and some way, then I see a good future. If we go X86, we go the way of BeOS.
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I'm no X1000 supporter, but I missed the part where a PowerPC CPU is "standard PC components..."
Well, it was exactly that during longer than a decade, and the fact is that this very CPU was designed for potential use in year 2007 level Apple laptops, so you are wrong. But in a way you are right; the PPC doesn't even qualify to neither "PC" nor "Desktop" anymore, that era ended half a decade ago (today PPC is used for routers, printers, cars, etc). And if this is your criteria for "being Amiga", then there is something fundamentally wrong. I don't say that standard PC components would be bad in any way, rather the opposite actually, it's the only way to go. But don't pretend that the x1000 would be something it isn't; IT IS a motherboard with BOG-STANDARD PC CONTROLLERS, offering very little (anything at all?) over a 2007 level PC (which probably even used the very same controllers). So when some people are claiming that the C64X is "bad" because of it being "just an overpriced PC", but the x1000 isn't, then there is some serious confusion in the air, especially if you look at the very cool and nicely done C64 case vs. the x1000 bog-standard PC case, and especially if you think the "overpriced" part over one more time.
If you want new, exiting *Amiga* hardware, you should take a look at the "Natami" project... :)
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If you are going to start expecting "Sensible Actions" from the Amiga crowd now, you are living in a dream world.
(by the way, I agree that Hyperion made a huge mistake by not completing the work to port to the G4 MacMini. They could have had it finished long ago and would have 2 to 4 times as many OS4 users right now. After the disappointing results of comparing OS4 to MorphOS on the same hardware, the Pegasos2, maybe Hyperion did not want to port to another machine where more comparisons would be made that would make OS4 look bad).
+1
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Dumping PPC was the smartest thing Apple ever did. They were getting flogged in the market place and all but the flagship, top shelf PPC gear they came out with were dogs. I don't get all the fond memories people have for Mac PPC, sure they were built well and built to last but they were always second rate in performance and more expensive.
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There is a reason I have takemehomegrandma on my ignore list here..........
Yeah, keep your tin-foil hat tightly glued on...
:lol:
Edit:
(http://www.samtycke.nu/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/20110118_tin_foil_hat.jpg)
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Second rate? Maybe at the end but the G4s always outclassed Pentium 4s running at twice the clock rate. More expensive? Definitely, but the new ones are just as expensive and are nowhere near the quality of the PPC macs, but they are definitely better than you average crap x86/64.
Saying Intel is better than PPC is like saying an M16 is better than the AK47, sure the M16 has modern, but useless features, but the AK47 is robust, effective and simple in design, like PowerPC. The designer of the AK, quoted:
"Anything that is complex is not useful and anything that is useful is simple.
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
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Well, it was exactly that during longer than a decade, and the fact is that this very CPU was designed for potential use in year 2007 level Apple laptops, so you are wrong.
Well, if you're going to define "standard PC" to include Apple's pre-Intel Macs, I suppose, but I don't know of anyone else who extends the definition that far... :/
But in a way you are right; the PPC doesn't even qualify to neither "PC" nor "Desktop" anymore, that era ended half a decade ago (today PPC is used for routers, printers, cars, etc). And if this is your criteria for "being Amiga", then there is something fundamentally wrong.
I actually said nothing at all about what makes an Amiga. And that's not how I feel about it anyway; when it comes to the Amiga I'm a 68k man all the way. I just don't think that PPC is a "dead end," or that i7 is the Second Coming and of Intel's kingdom there shall be no end.
But just because PPC has fallen out of favor currently (though if you haven't noticed, RISC architectures have been making quite a bit of a comeback, when you factor in smartphones and other mobile devices, and PPC specifically is doing all right, what with driving all three of the current-gen game consoles,) that doesn't mean that it doesn't have a future. The industry moves in unpredictable ways, and it may be that someone's going to come along and do for the PPC architecture what Core 2 did for Intel, pulling it out of its slump and making it a major player again. Or maybe not. Who can say? Fate is fickle.
I do agree that the X1000 is overpriced and underpowered (as I've said multiple times, I'm not an A-eon defender, and I certainly have better uses for $2500 than buying something that probably isn't as good as my G5 Power Mac.) I just don't think it's fair to tie the X1000 and the PowerPC architecture as a whole up in one inextricable bundle.
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Well, it was exactly that during longer than a decade, and the fact is that this very CPU was designed for potential use in year 2007 level Apple laptops, so you are wrong. But in a way you are right; the PPC doesn't even qualify to neither "PC" nor "Desktop" anymore, that era ended half a decade ago (today PPC is used for routers, printers, cars, etc). And if this is your criteria for "being Amiga", then there is something fundamentally wrong. I don't say that standard PC components would be bad in any way, rather the opposite actually, it's the only way to go. But don't pretend that the x1000 would be something it isn't; IT IS a motherboard with BOG-STANDARD PC CONTROLLERS, offering very little (anything at all?) over a 2007 level PC (which probably even used the very same controllers). So when some people are claiming that the C64X is "bad" because of it being "just an overpriced PC", but the x1000 isn't, then there is some serious confusion in the air, especially if you look at the very cool and nicely done C64 case vs. the x1000 bog-standard PC case, and especially if you think the "overpriced" part over one more time.
If you want new, exiting *Amiga* hardware, you should take a look at the "Natami" project... :)
I would have to say there is something fundamentally wrong WITH YOU if you think a crappy Chinese made c64x is classier than a X1000. Next you are going to start praising iconatain's range of 'Amiga' tablets. Do you have any class whatsoever?
Also there is nothing 'bog-standard' about the x1000. How many other custom designed ppc boards are out there with a Xena chip on board? The Sams are pretty crappy in my opinion as i think they are just a makeshift motherboard without much care or thought going into them. But the X1000 is different as it was designed from scratch upwards.
The case is also custom. Sure it is based on another already existing case but it has been modified so it is no longer 'bog-standard'. It is custom.
I also think the X1000 will be worth more than the Sams in resale value because they are different to the Sams (see above). I think it is perfectly possible for the Nemo boards to increase in value. Some of the most desirable collectors items were financial failures that later became cult icons. Thus increasing in value. An example of this is the Walker.
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Second rate? Maybe at the end but the G4s always outclassed Pentium 4s running at twice the clock rate. More expensive? Definitely, but the new ones are just as expensive and are nowhere near the quality of the PPC macs, but they are definitely better than you average crap x86/64.
Saying Intel is better than PPC is like saying an M16 is better than the AK47, sure the M16 has modern, but useless features, but the AK47 is robust, effective and simple in design, like PowerPC. The designer of the AK, quoted:
I don't see a drop in build quality with Apples x86 machines. They seem to be putting just as much attention to detail now as they did in the PPC era. It's not like they pulled a Packard Bell and started using recycled parts or lowered their standards for rolling out PCBs.
The biggest problem with PPC macs is probably the software. You have to admit when Apple was shoveling out G3 and G4 macs and advertising that they were the fastest thing ever seen, they ran like dogs compared to midrange PCs running win XP. At the end of the day, that's all that matters. For whatever reason their software stack did not do it any justice. Compare two identical PPC Macs, one running linux and one running OS X. OS X trundles along while linux flies.
Now compare two Intel macs, one with OS X and one with Linux. The performance is similar. If PPC was so great, why was Apple never able to truly take advantage of it?
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How many other custom designed ppc boards are out there with a Xena chip on board?
None, because that would be ridiculous.
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The biggest problem with PPC macs is probably the software. You have to admit when Apple was shoveling out G3 and G4 macs and advertising that they were the fastest thing ever seen, they ran like dogs compared to midrange PCs running win XP. At the end of the day, that's all that matters. For whatever reason their software stack did not do it any justice. Compare two identical PPC Macs, one running linux and one running OS X. OS X trundles along while linux flies.
Now compare two Intel macs, one with OS X and one with Linux. The performance is similar. If PPC was so great, why was Apple never able to truly take advantage of it?
Yes and no. Apple's rush to OS X was definitely a problem, as even their early G5 machines weren't all that well-suited to it - and they were putting it on mid-range G4s running at half or less the speed of even the low-end Power Mac G5! But if you put OS9 on the same machine (assuming it's early enough in the G4 cycle that they hadn't dropped support entirely,) there's a marked performance increase.
The Power Mac G4 I rescued from the recycle center (single-CPU 533MHz,) for example, is the most responsive thing I've run classic Mac OS on yet, and that includes modern computers running SheepShaver. With the exception of large webpage rendering (which would probably see a marked improvement if I had something better than the piddly 16MB video card they shipped it with,) it comes in only somewhat under my old 1.2GHz P4 laptop running XP, and absolutely thrashes my old 800MHz Celeron WinMe box.
I think the problem is less that Apple's software is bad and more that they always insist on everyone using their latest and greatest, hardware suitability be damned. They even staged a "funeral" for OS9 when it's a perfectly workable OS (for its time) and far better suited to the hardware they were shipping when they introduced OSX.
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Next you are going to start praising iconatain's range of 'Amiga' tablets.
Btw I think Amiga tablets look nice.
Also there is nothing 'bog-standard' about the x1000. How many other custom designed ppc boards are out there with a Xena chip on board?
There are Xena add-ons available on Varisys website. You can order one and have Xena (XMOS) on Amiga 4000, PC, Macs, anything.
I also think the X1000 will be worth more than the Sams in resale value because they are different to the Sams (see above). I think it is perfectly possible for the Nemo boards to increase in value. Some of the most desirable collectors items were financial failures that later became cult icons. Thus increasing in value. An example of this is the Walker.
The original price for the Walker was much more than its current price at eBay.
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I don't want to support Intel because the stuff out there is not anywhere near as good of quality as a PowerPC G4 Powerbook. Have had it for two years, its the nicest, prettiest and most inexpensive computer I have ever paid for (300) and it runs jsut fine. As long as good quality hardware remains, PowerPC is not dead.
The CPU architecture have nothing to do with the hardware quality.
If we could bring down the price of PPC Hardware by reaching into another market, somehow and some way, then I see a good future.
From the whole PPC market Amigas are only small fraction. Even Apple could not sell machines in volumes that actually paid it off.
If we go X86, we go the way of BeOS.
BeBox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeBox) sold about 1800 units. That makes it more succesful than AmigaOne but less succesful than Pegasos. Pegasos could not change the world.
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/shakes head at thread.
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/shakes head at thread.
/shakes big stick at thread... ;)
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This thread is the reason why I don't pop up on this site very often. People are fiddling while Rome burns.
Instead of just being happy that there might be some new Amiga hardware and a new version of AmigaOS people are bickering.
I'm going back to lurking now, maybe I'll say something again when the bickering stops.
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The CPU architecture have nothing to do with the hardware quality.
True. But it is pretty grody, being a 64-bit expansion to a 32-bit update to a 16-bit remake of an 8-bit CPU that frankly wasn't all that great to begin with. I'm not going to claim that all hardware should be chosen based on design prettiness, but it's like what they say about knowing what goes into sausage; having tinkered around under the hood of x86 systems, I'll never look at one the same way again.
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This thread is the reason why I don't pop up on this site very often. People are fiddling while Rome burns.
Instead of just being happy that there might be some new Amiga hardware and a new version of AmigaOS people are bickering.
I'm going back to lurking now, maybe I'll say something again when the bickering stops.
I'd better not hold me breath then and hope to live till I'm at least 200... eh... ;)
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(I'm quoting myself now, to see if you will see it yourself...)
Nah, all I can see is a bitter and twisted attitude. Sugar with your serving of sour grapes sir?
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I don't see a drop in build quality with Apples x86 machines. They seem to be putting just as much attention to detail now as they did in the PPC era. It's not like they pulled a Packard Bell and started using recycled parts or lowered their standards for rolling out PCBs.
For a time there was a massive, obvious drop in quality with their MacBook hardware. The first Intel MacBook, which took over from the iBook, had all sorts of issues. I personally know of 3 which suffer from cracked plastic around the keyboard cover and failure of the trackpad button, two of these which have had failed wireless cards, two have also had battery failures, and one has had an optical drive failure. None of these had what I would consider atypical use, and my previous-gen G4 iBook is rock solid and outlasting them all in every department (except ability to use Flash, but that's another story). They're not alone either, the internet's full of these stories, far more than the usual volume of complaints you would find on another machine.
Now, those issues were fixed for the newer MacBook with the all-in-one plastic body, and the Pros never had those issues, but at the time it gave the distinct impression of a major drop in quality.
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How many other custom designed ppc boards are out there with a Xena chip on board?
:roflmao:
If the "Xena" chip is that important, you can get 32x, less the PPC fluff, and for MUCH lower price:
https://www.xmos.com/products/development-kits/xmp-64
Or, since you guys seem to like DIY, and keep pushing and recomending the pratice to others, go ahead! The chip is only $17.40 (q.ty 1):
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=880-1020-ND
So... "north of £1500", but not even the top range XMOS chip included. :confused:
pffft
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@ thread
Wow it only took four posts into this thread for the "out of date hardware" argument to crop up and the same amount of posts from the same person to pull out the dreaded CUSA!
Then it only took two pages of this thread for the "Hyperion should have ported to x86 and x86 hardware is cheaper, and the X1000 is a overpriced redundant PC hardware argument."
Can we just be happy for Trevor, Ben and the Varysis teams achievement whether you agree with it or not.
I want to congratulate the guys on there achievement I must admit I was already doubting it would ever eventuate, the Amiga community needs more Trevors, and companies like Varysis.
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@ thread
Can we just be happy for Trevor, Ben and the Varysis teams achievement whether you agree with it or not.
No, I hope it blows up in their faces. All the BS about "xena" and "xorro" and endless other absurd hype was enough for me.
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I own two iBooks, both have died from two known faults that Apple are aware of and were fixing the issue for some after a huge up roar however they're ignoring this now.
One fault is the logicboard (motherboard in normal person speak) onboard graphics card is done with badly designed solder, there are many fixes for it. All don't last that long and the ibook becomes trash. This was an issue with G3's and G4's.
The other fault is the dc board not charging the battery / powering the ibook. Plenty of horror stories for both if you google.
Let alone trying to upgrade the ibooks HDD, that's a fun afternoon project. Especially when the flimsy plastic cracks or the screws can't grip anymore.
Don't get me wrong, they look great. Work great when they're working, but will I buy another Apple overpriced hardware, no.
I could list afew flaws with the iphones and ipads, both from research and from what I've witnessed myself.
Anyway back on topic....
The Amiga scene needs to get it's A together, however due to negative attitudes and waste of time red camp / blue camp fights (which I never really understood) and bickering about things that don't matter it's hard to keep coming back.
We should be cheering and getting excited about new hardware/sofware and projects that show some light at the end of the tunnel. Not moaning.
Sure this is just a hobby, but atleast I'm enjoying computers again. (Having to work with PC drones all day boo).
Don't you remember being excited opening the box of a new Amiga in your youth? Thats what it's all about everytime some new hardware or software project comes together, what other system has the same following?
Anyway enough is enough, celebrate the Amiga hobby not bitch.
Back to lurking for me, 4 more episodes of falling skies left to watch :(
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No, I hope it blows up in their faces. All the BS about "xena" and "xorro" and endless other absurd hype was enough for me.
Is it possible to stoop any lower? :madashell:
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No, I hope it blows up in their faces. All the BS about "xena" and "xorro" and endless other absurd hype was enough for me.
What? So you can crawl on here in a few months time and say to everyone "I told you so"?
Set some goals in life pal. Your life is fast becoming very sad indeed.
@Fairdinkem
It's laudable sentiment. I'm happy to see development on all flavours of OS and hardware. I'm particularly happy for Trevor as he is now very close to achieving what he set out to do.
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Seems that the bad habit of certain individuals of invading OS4 threads with FUD and anti-propaganda is a die hard one...but then again AmigaOS is good, AmigaOS is bad, all talk about it, while just a few talk about anything else, any publicity is good publicity, so thanks for the handwork folks, most people just read the news and go away without reading the rest, and if it wasn't for you keeping the threads always right on top with your sharp tongues, many would miss several news pieces.
So again thanks for helping the cause (yeah in a twisted way, but alas... :))
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A new Amiga is born *sniff*
No, an "AmigaOne" is born. Glad to see it in production, perhaps now we can hear what the retail price is going to be?
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Originally Posted by koaftder
No, I hope it blows up in their faces. All the BS about "xena" and "xorro" and endless other absurd hype was enough for me.
Is it possible to stoop any lower? :madashell:
Could you clarify, are you referring to A-eon or koft here?
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Is it possible to stoop any lower? :madashell:
Oh, I wouldn't say putting XMOS on the motherboard is stooping that low, it's a gimmick to be sure, but I don't see it as necessarily a good or bad thing.
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Could you clarify, are you referring to A-eon or koft here?
Oh, I wouldn't say putting XMOS on the motherboard is stooping that low, it's a gimmick to be sure, but I don't see it as necessarily a good or bad thing.
If you guys bothered to read the rest of the thread you will notice i am a supporter of the X1000. Koafder - get a life.
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No, an "AmigaOne" is born. Glad to see it in production, perhaps now we can hear what the retail price is going to be?
Yes an AmigaOne is born and can run AmigaOS4.x which makes it more Amiga than a generic pc with a Commodore sticker slapped on running Linux.
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Yes an AmigaOne is born and can run AmigaOS4.x which makes it more Amiga than a generic pc with a Commodore sticker slapped on running Linux.
So what is the retail price of the new AmigaOne?
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cool !!!!
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Around 2 grand, but there is no official price yet.
So what is the retail price of the new AmigaOne?
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So how much does it cost just for the CPUs themselves and nothing else? I'm guessing maybe $1000 for the pair? Just remember that the Sams come with only a single PPC whereas the X1000 comes as a pair thus explaining such a high cost... ;)
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Cobblers... :(
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this is a test... :nervous:
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So what's a cobbler? :confused:
A test of what? :confused:
I'm bored... :(
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So how much does it cost just for the CPUs themselves and nothing else? I'm guessing maybe $1000 for the pair? Just remember that the Sams come with only a single PPC whereas the X1000 comes as a pair thus explaining such a high cost... ;)
It's a dual-core CPU, not two CPUs - quite a bit cheaper of an approach. I'd suspect more of the price is in paying off the development cost and the higher per-unit cost of a small production run versus a large one, though you'd have to ask A-eon to know for sure.
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hello & help
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So how much does it cost just for the CPUs themselves and nothing else? I'm guessing maybe $1000 for the pair? Just remember that the Sams come with only a single PPC whereas the X1000 comes as a pair thus explaining such a high cost... ;)
Once you have removed your foot from your mouth, you might want to try reading up on the specs of the X1000 at the A-Eon website, or Google the PA6T CPU before commenting on either of them in the future.
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First of all... sorry for all the short posts that don't mean anything but my account has been f'ed up once again and Pyro & Transition and even the mods seem to have fallen of the face of the earth... :(
So I'm posting this video here in the hope that someone can please try and contact one of the admins or mods for me to alert them to the fact that my account isn't working again. :(
It started last night just after I received an email from DiscreetFX informing me that they had just renewed my annual subscription and had taken the money from my back account. Straight after that when I tried to log in I kept getting the message "username or password invalid"... :(
I have since last night had to get at least 15 "temporary" passwords and reset my account but after either just one short post or even simply loging out and trying to log back in again my password becomes "invalid" once again and so I have to go through the rigamaroll of getting yet another temporary ruddy password... :(
Once again it's only Amiga.org this is happening on, all other sites work fine as normal. I've tried it on two different computers with two entirely different set ups, all with the same result... my password becomes "invalid" after one post or logging out... :(
I've checked for viruses, checked the cookies and everything else, all is fine at this end except for my Amiga.org account... :(
(I've even had to type this offline and cut and paste it cos it's doesn't give me time to type any more than a few words before my account becomes invalid once again)... :(
Hopefully this video I made of it will show the problem better.... heeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp... :cry:
[youtube]GJaTsEn-zqM[/youtube]
and to top it all off. I've just burnt me friggin dinner in the oven while trying to get this video posted... :madashell:
PS: I couldn't do this via PM as that don't work either... :(
PPS: I can't answer any questions here or read PM's so you'll have to contact me via email if you have to... :(
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So how much does it cost just for the CPUs themselves and nothing else? I'm guessing maybe $1000 for the pair? Just remember that the Sams come with only a single PPC whereas the X1000 comes as a pair thus explaining such a high cost... ;)
oh dear. :insane:
Its just the one CPU, that feature two cores.
Its been said that the CPU chips cost $500 (£400) each, now add the Xmos and few other things on the board, in actually cost I'm guess it cost no more than £600 to make a X1000, but then you got add cost of developing the board and cost of porting OS4 and Linux to the machine and all the extras like Ram, Gfx card, HD, DVD drive, Case, PSU, Cables, Taxs, Profit margins, Packaging, Shipment cost, etc and it soon get to £1,500+.
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oh dear. :insane:
Its just the one CPU, that feature two cores.
Its been said that the CPU chips cost $500 (£400) each, now add the Xmos and few other things on the board, in actually cost I'm guess it cost no more than £600 to make a X1000, but then you got add cost of developing the board and cost of porting OS4 and Linux to the machine and all the extras like Ram, Gfx card, HD, DVD drive, Case, PSU, Cables, Taxs, Profit margins, Packaging, Shipment cost, etc and it soon get to £1,500+.
Oppppps :sealed:
I didn't actually know this. I never really gave the idea of dual cores much thought. I always just assumed they were just 2 cpus thrown together. I guess you learn something new everyday. Thanks guys! :)
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First of all... sorry for all the short posts that don't mean anything but my account has been f'ed up once again and Pyro & Transition and even the mods seem to have fallen of the face of the earth... :(
So I'm posting this video here in the hope that someone can please try and contact one of the admins or mods for me to alert them to the fact that my account isn't working again. :(
It started last night just after I received an email from DiscreetFX informing me that they had just renewed my annual subscription and had taken the money from my back account. Straight after that when I tried to log in I kept getting the message "username or password invalid"... :(
I have since last night had to get at least 15 "temporary" passwords and reset my account but after either just one short post or even simply loging out and trying to log back in again my password becomes "invalid" once again and so I have to go through the rigamaroll of getting yet another temporary ruddy password... :(
Once again it's only Amiga.org this is happening on, all other sites work fine as normal. I've tried it on two different computers with two entirely different set ups, all with the same result... my password becomes "invalid" after one post or logging out... :(
I've checked for viruses, checked the cookies and everything else, all is fine at this end except for my Amiga.org account... :(
(I've even had to type this offline and cut and paste it cos it's doesn't give me time to type any more than a few words before my account becomes invalid once again)... :(
Hopefully this video I made of it will show the problem better.... heeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp... :cry:
[youtube]GJaTsEn-zqM[/youtube]
and to top it all off. I've just burnt me friggin dinner in the oven while trying to get this video posted... :madashell:
PS: I couldn't do this via PM as that don't work either... :(
PPS: I can't answer any questions here or read PM's so you'll have to contact me via email if you have to... :(
My favourite part was at 8:30 mins. The swearing is priceless :)
I also liked the part where you send me a message before i have even checked my messages. It feels like a weird sci-fi paradox or time travel :mickeymouse:
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Oppppps :sealed:
I didn't actually know this. I never really gave the idea of dual cores much thought. I always just assumed they were just 2 cpus thrown together. I guess you learn something new everyday. Thanks guys! :)
So you support the X1000 even though you're not clear at all on what it is?
I think you should get one. You'll make a great customer for Hyperion and Co.
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Not to mention that Apple's support for the PA6T ends next year and they can finally bury the chip. Apple's prime focus has been on the A4, A5 (and A6) chips that power iOS devices.
If the chips do indeed cost £400 (US$650) that's a big pile of money for only two cores running at 1.8 GHz, 4 core Xeons can be had for a third the price, as can quad core i7s. Both running at over 3 GHz.
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True, but x86 is boring as hell.
There's gotta be a cheaper way to get PPC hardware, really there does. Nintendo can sell a Wii for $150. Granted that's only a souped-up G3 in there, but it still can't be that expensive to manufacture the PA6T...
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mhh! reading between the lines, it "seems" that jorkany and persia are not interested in the X1000. ok then .... next!!!
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but it still can't be that expensive to manufacture the PA6T...
its not the manufacturing, its the R&D that costs money, so your price reflects the cost of recouping research and development.
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its not the manufacturing, its the R&D that costs money, so your price reflects the cost of recouping research and development.
And in the case of the X1000, you've also got to factor in low production volume into the price.
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And in the case of the X1000, you've also got to factor in low production volume into the price.
Well naturally - I was just a bit stunned by the cost of the CPU...
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So you support the X1000 even though you're not clear at all on what it is?
I think you should get one. You'll make a great customer for Hyperion and Co.
kindergarten teacher time since mods are non-existent here: now now, play nice children and try to get along without insulting each other:lol:
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Really? By an X1000 today and sell for a profit in a few years time.
What makes you think it will be more valuable in a few years? Do you think it will increase in value like the Eyetech AmigaOne has?
Oh wait:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Amigaone-XE-G4-Earlybird-Edition-/180702087558?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a12af0986
Sold for £266.99 ($431 USD) with all included items. Research the cost of those peripherals+OS4 and you'll find the board by itself accounts for about $110.
I just don't see how a board like the X1000 which very, very few people have even heard of and which has zero impact on the world of computing will be gaining in value. Maybe a few years down the road some OS4 nostalgist would buy a used one, but only because they weren't able to afford the initial price.
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What makes you think it will be more valuable in a few years? Do you think it will increase in value like the Eyetech AmigaOne has?
Oh wait:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Amigaone-XE-G4-Earlybird-Edition-/180702087558?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a12af0986
Sold for £266.99 ($431 USD) with all included items. Research the cost of those peripherals+OS4 and you'll find the board by itself accounts for about $110.
I just don't see how a board like the X1000 which very, very few people have even heard of and which has zero impact on the world of computing will be gaining in value. Maybe a few years down the road some OS4 nostalgist would buy a used one, but only because they weren't able to afford the initial price.
In the computing world today there are basically 2 options. Arm or x86. The X1000 is neither. The X1000 is Powerpc. It is a limited production run of maybe less than 250. It has a Xena chip that has direct access to the cpu. It is controversial. If all these things summed together doesn't make it exotic then i don't know what is. You don't think it can make a profit? The Walker did. The X1000 is destined to be given cult status unlike the generic Sams...
Please don't compared the X1000 to that G4 piece of crap or even the new Sams. They are nothing more than el cheapo boards that have expensive cpu's fitted *YAWNS*.
Also the X1000 has a Xcore chip that was designed specifically to work with the X1000. Sure you can argue that you can buy an add on xcore kit and save money but it's just not the same as it wouldn't work anywhere as good as the X1000 Xena would. Sure you can substitute cardboard for wood when building a table if you want to. Don't me stop you. This argument is dumb.
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@Kesa
the Sams are far below the AmigaOne in quality. The Amigaone was nowhere near perfect but it is not a POS. Not even the Sam is a POS. The G4, G5 and PA6T are great, innovative CPUs. The G5 would have survived, if we had stopped looking at the numbers and looking at the fact that all the Hz in the world don't matter if the platform is sh*t. The G4 at 1.67 Ghz was kicking the P4 at 3.2's arse. If they had developed a dual core G4 for the laptop market, and created a stopgap between the G5 and PA6T then maybe Apple would be great, today they are rich but their latest product quality has slid downhill. Teh fact of teh matter is the first gen x86 Macs provided little benefit over the previous generation, the quad G5 beat out the Xeon in all areas tested. Your average computer buyer probably has teh IQ of 90 or above, and thats being generous and I can guarantee that the new x86 crap out there is made in some no name village in China or Thailand to someone who makes less than $100 a week.
No wonder the AMiga community declined, we have so many deluded members who want us to go the way of BeOS, which died due to moving to x86 and directly going against Windows and Linux. Its a no-brainer that we share many parallels with the BeOS group, small size, highly literate users and a huge division between what soem people want to go against Windows yet again and the sensible group who believes that, for the time being they don;t stand a chance in hell. We are in a similar, although somewhat better predicament.
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Sure you can argue that you can buy an add on xcore kit and save money but it's just not the same as it wouldn't work anywhere as good as the X1000 Xena would.
How good it is?
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No, BeOS died because it had no software. Simple.
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Actually, BeOS did and does have a comparable selection of software. Emulators, video editors, video players, e-mail, modern browsers. They even have Firefox, Thunderbird, and other software we continue to lack.
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No, BeOS died because it had no software. Simple.
Probably both, actually - no software because all the support was for Windows, couldn't get support because it couldn't compete with Windows because it had no software. It's a vicious cycle that affects a lot of nascent platforms if they don't have a real killer app. Hell, even the IBM PC languished for well over a year until Lotus 1-2-3 gave people an incentive to look into it.
Actually, BeOS did and does have a comparable selection of software. Emulators, video editors, video players, e-mail, modern browsers. They even have Firefox, Thunderbird, and other software we continue to lack.
Compared to OS4, yes, but OS4 was a niche market from the get-go. The relevant comparison for BeOS at the time was Windows or Mac OS, both of which had far greater commercial support (and open-source development didn't really take off until the end of BeOS's lifespan.)
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mhh! reading between the lines, it "seems" that jorkany and persia are not interested in the X1000. ok then .... next!!!
A typical response to anyone who questions the reasoning behind the creation of, or desire to purchase an X1000.
So anyone who raises such questions should be ignored and their questions should be erased from all threads about the X1000, so all the Hyperion and A-Eon fans should never have to see them?
Very often in these threads, exaggerations and incorrect information is given by people that really don't know what they are talking about, so it is only natural for others that know the correct information to step in and offer the correct information. This is almost always seen as an attack on the product and people that would rather just believe the incorrect information (even if this is not exactly what has happened in this thread).
Don't be too quick to criticize others that are offering their opinions and the information that they know, even when you do not agree with them.
Edit: My point is: we should criticize less and accept information that is offered as helpful, or informational. If you don't agree with what is being written as a FACT, and not an opinion, then provide the proof to dispute such incorrect facts. Arguing with opinions is usually just a waste of time for everyone.
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Amigadave,
Well put. I wish that some members wouldn't criticize people's choices of hardware. How would you like it if we criticized your choice of ice cream?
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Amigadave,
Well put. I wish that some members wouldn't criticize people's choices of hardware. How would you like it if we criticized your choice of ice cream?
That would be difficult, as I love almost all flavors of ICE CREAM! :roflmao:
I will add that people that are not interested in purchasing products in the topics of threads should be careful and mindful of the feelings of those people that ARE interested in purchasing such products and adjust the way they post is such threads. You don't have to refrain from participating in the discussions, but please don't join in just to piss someone off for the fun of it.
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A typical response to anyone who questions the reasoning behind the creation of, or desire to purchase an X1000.
So anyone who raises such questions should be ignored and their questions should be erased from all threads about the X1000, so all the Hyperion and A-Eon fans should never have to see them?
Very often in these threads, exaggerations and incorrect information is given by people that really don't know what they are talking about, so it is only natural for others that know the correct information to step in and offer the correct information. This is almost always seen as an attack on the product and people that would rather just believe the incorrect information (even if this is not exactly what has happened in this thread).
Don't be too quick to criticize others that are offering their opinions and the information that they know, even when you do not agree with them.
Edit: My point is: we should criticize less and accept information that is offered as helpful, or informational. If you don't agree with what is being written as a FACT, and not an opinion, then provide the proof to dispute such incorrect facts. Arguing with opinions is usually just a waste of time for everyone.
Actually i thought Framigas comment was right on. The purpose of this thread was to announce an update on the production of a new product and then it was hijacked by pessimists. Please take it somewhere else.
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That would be difficult, as I love almost all flavors of ICE CREAM! :roflmao:
I don't believe you buddy, not one bit.
http://www.who-sucks.com/food/101-frightening-ice-cream-flavors-from-around-the-world
..and yeah I know that was off topic but I think your going to have to click the link anyway as curiosity will get the better of you.
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@Amigadave
Just thought about my analogy and ghave decided x86 AROS machines are about as close to a classic/MOS/OS4 amiga as Mayo is to ice cream.
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kesa
Its hard to be an optimist when the project has gone completely off track and was hyped like mad a while back and there has been no movement. I actually was excited for X1000 when first announced but now seems rather lame and looks as if the porting is going rough..
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Actually i thought Framigas comment was right on. The purpose of this thread was to announce an update on the production of a new product and then it was hijacked by pessimists. Please take it somewhere else.
That does not surprise me at all.
As for taking it somewhere else, that is not going to happen, so learn to live with it. There will always be differing opinions and tastes here on this forum site, and that is part of what makes it a good site, the ability to see all sides of the Amiga experience in one place. If we can just learn to discuss our preferences in a more civil way, it will be an even better site and much more productive for everyone. It is the extreme fanatics on all sides that ruin it for the rest of us.
Any announcement regarding the X1000 is bound to be received with cheers of joy, skepticism, apathy, intense to moderate to mild interest and probably a dozen other feelings, with corresponding responses from each of the people who experience those emotions. It is a controversial project and product, so it is going to receive many different responses. If you can't deal with that fact, you are going to be upset very often, as news regarding this project increases in frequency toward the completion of the project. Simply shouting "Shut the F**k Up" to everyone that does not share your enthusiasm for the X1000 project isn't going to work, as I am sure you are aware.
I am trying to stay objective and I am really happy for Trevor to see that he has been able to begin production of the final X1000 motherboard design, but I won't stop sharing my opinions regarding this project, or any other Next Gen Amiga system, just to please some of you who would rather not discuss the pros and cons of any of these systems, or specifically the cons to your chosen system.
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To be honest, I'm still optimistic. Waiting for Amiga hardware is one of my main pastimes, dunno if I could find enough to do with myself if I didn't have so much waiting to do. I'm off to do some more now.
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In the computing world today there are basically 2 options. Arm or x86. The X1000 is neither. The X1000 is Powerpc. It is a limited production run of maybe less than 250. It has a Xena chip that has direct access to the cpu. It is controversial. If all these things summed together doesn't make it exotic then i don't know what is. You don't think it can make a profit? The Walker did.
The Walker never even went into production, it was a prototype. No profit there.
The X1000 is destined to be given cult status unlike the generic Sams...
Please don't compared the X1000 to that G4 piece of crap or even the new Sams. They are nothing more than el cheapo boards that have expensive cpu's fitted *YAWNS*.
Also the X1000 has a Xcore chip that was designed specifically to work with the X1000.
Not sure where you've been getting your information (garden gnomes maybe?) but the chip you're referring to is made by XMOS and was not "designed specifically to work with the X1000". It's an off the shelf component anyone can order. Here's some information in case you want to order one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XCore_XS1-L1
http://www.xmos.com/products/xs1-l-family/l1tq48
Sure you can argue that you can buy an add on xcore kit and save money but it's just not the same as it wouldn't work anywhere as good as the X1000 Xena would. Sure you can substitute cardboard for wood when building a table if you want to. Don't me stop you. This argument is dumb.
Put down the crack pipe - unless you're just trolling, in which case carry on.
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The Walker never even went into production, it was a prototype. No profit there.
If you are on planet Earth it would have been obvious i was referring to this recent thread.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58649&page=5
It sold for 1100 Pounds. Did i ever say the Walker ever went into production? No i did not. Stop putting words in my mouth.
Not sure where you've been getting your information (garden gnomes maybe?) but the chip you're referring to is made by XMOS and was not "designed specifically to work with the X1000". It's an off the shelf component anyone can order. Here's some information in case you want to order one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XCore_XS1-L1
http://www.xmos.com/products/xs1-l-family/l1tq48
That's not what what i said. I never said the xcore was designed specifically for the X1000. What i said was the xcore and the X1000 were designed to work together. They didn't just slap on the xcore chip on the X1000 motherboard and hope for the best, they put a lot of thought into it to make sure it would work well. Stop putting words in my mouth.
Put down the crack pipe - unless you're just trolling, in which case carry on.
I'm trolling? This thread is about a production update for a product i am obviously interested in. How is that trolling? :confused:
I'm surprised by how you managed to get my comments completely wrong like you have. Are you doing this deliberately? If not maybe you should get an IQ test?
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That's not what what i said. I never said the xcore was designed specifically for the X1000. What i said was the xcore and the X1000 were designed to work together. They didn't just slap on the xcore chip on the X1000 motherboard and hope for the best, they put a lot of thought into it to make sure it would work well. Stop putting words in my mouth.
What? You just said the two were designed to work together but in the sentence above it you denied the Xcore was designed for the A1X1K. That doesn't make any sense. If you are saying the A1X1K was designed to work with the Xcore, that is a bit more believable but highly questionable unless there is a special bus designed to allow the CPU direct access to the Xcore and bypassing the PCI bus. This all begs a question on just what is the special purpose for having XCore in the first place? I mean if A-EON had Varisys specifically design this so called tight integration, there had to be a specific reason for them to do so. What is this very specific reason for them doing so for a desktop computer?
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That's not what what i said. I never said the xcore was designed specifically for the X1000.
That is exactly, precisely, 100% what you said down to the letter.
Also the X1000 has a Xcore chip that was designed specifically to work with the X1000.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=653825&postcount=92
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...
(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/3379/notsureiftrollingorjust.jpg)
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If you are on planet Earth it would have been obvious i was referring to this recent thread.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58649&page=5
It sold for 1100 Pounds. Did i ever say the Walker ever went into production? No i did not. Stop putting words in my mouth.
Okay, I see what you meant now, sorry. Referring to the thread would have helped but it's my mistake.
That's not what what i said. I never said the xcore was designed specifically for the X1000.
Maybe you should re-read your post.
What i said was the xcore and the X1000 were designed to work together.
They were not. The X1000 may have been designed to work with the Xcore, but the people at XMOS certainly made no effort at all to make sure their Xcore product works with the X1000.
They didn't just slap on the xcore chip on the X1000 motherboard and hope for the best, they put a lot of thought into it to make sure it would work well.
Yes, Varisys very likely did make sure it works on the X1000. XMOS had nothing to do with the design of the X1000 though, which is what you seem to have been implying recently. The Xcore is not a custom product.
Stop putting words in my mouth.
I'm trolling? This thread is about a production update for a product i am obviously interested in. How is that trolling? :confused:
I'm surprised by how you managed to get my comments completely wrong like you have. Are you doing this deliberately? If not maybe you should get an IQ test?
Nope, not doing it deliberately but maybe your posts just don't make as much sense as you think they do, or maybe you just haven't really reviewed what is involved with the X1000. You were saying (in another post) that it had dual processors, which it does not. You then claimed the Xcore processor was designed for the X1000, then recanted that and claimed that the X1000 and Xcore were designed to work with each other, which they were not.
If you were truly as interested in the X1000 as you claim, I would expect you would know these things, hence I get the impression you may be trolling. Nothing wrong with that IMO, and if you aren't - well, then now you maybe know a bit more about the X1000 and the Xcore relationship.
However you still haven't explained how any of this will make the X1000 more valuable in the future. The Walker is worth money because it was an unfinished product that might have been the future of the Amiga. It's a rare glimpse into what could have happened to a widely known and respected product that the fanbase of the real Amiga miss and wish could have had a brighter future. The X1000 is a product nobody outside of a miniscule community know about or care about, it has no history, it makes zero impact in the world of computing, its probably future is failure, and nobody will miss it when it's gone - much like the Eyetech AmigaOne which currently sells for less than a set of stuffed donkey balls made in Tijuana. You claim it will increase in value, please give an believable explanation of why.
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@ Dammy
Would you stop typing "A1X1K" as it makes as much sense as a banana in a teacup tapdancing to the sound of silence being played on a stobernockels spare wooly jumper that was made by a dwarf somewhere in China... ta... :)
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Looks like a case of crossed threads, I think Kesa was trying to say that the usage of the XCore etc. was not a straight case of slapping a chip (Xena) into the motherboard but that it had been further integrated into the overall design. By this I believe he is referring, at least in part, to the Xorro slot. As to the level of integration, in my own opinion, I think it's a case of wait and see. I like the idea of having this chip and slot to play with, it could be fun. Hyperion do need to make sure that the software tools are available within the OS to make proper use of it however. It's not all about hardware after all, the software has to back it up. let's not be total naysayers. I doubt if anyone ever considered that the A1200 clock port would be as important to so many of us as it has turned out to be when it was made.
And why so aggressive anyway folks, no need for name calling among friends.
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If you are on planet Earth it would have been obvious i was referring to this recent thread.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58649&page=5
It sold for 1100 Pounds. Did i ever say the Walker ever went into production? No i did not. Stop putting words in my mouth.
The cost per Walker was more like 11000 pounds when it was built for Amiga Technologies.
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Kesa, you might want to sleep off the 12 pints mentioned in your signature before posting comments about technical details of any computer board designs. :lol:
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@jorkany
However you still haven't explained how any of this will make the X1000 more valuable in the future. The Walker is worth money because it was an unfinished product that might have been the future of the Amiga. It's a rare glimpse into what could have happened to a widely known and respected product that the fanbase of the real Amiga miss and wish could have had a brighter future. The X1000 is a product nobody outside of a miniscule community know about or care about, it has no history, it makes zero impact in the world of computing, its probably future is failure, and nobody will miss it when it's gone - much like the Eyetech AmigaOne which currently sells for less than a set of stuffed donkey balls made in Tijuana. You claim it will increase in value, please give an believable explanation of why.
while I can't speak for @kesa, i know of at least three engineers in my office who wish to purchase one for their collections, and none of them care about the amiga. the reasons that I have, for example, are:
1. the inclusion of a PA6T in a consumer product
2. a consumer-oriented desktop which is not (specifically) meant to run windows, OSX, or Linux
3. the inclusion of an XMOS processor which has it's own custom I/O and is accessible via the GPIO lines from the PA6T
two of my friends are buying it for reason #1 alone. bear in mind they are interested as collectors, not users, so it certainly doesn't suggest interest from general computer users per se -- but there are a few folks out there interested in it due to it's rarity, the back-story behind its design, and the silicon they've included on the board.
the terons weren't nearly as interesting given that they were evaluation boards using commodity parts that had been breathed on for the amiga community. the pegasos was more or less the same story, although slightly more interesting because it was designed from the get-go as the basis for a desktop system. the X1000 is significantly more desirable for a collector than either of those boards by a long way.
-- eliyahu
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Okay, I see what you meant now, sorry. Referring to the thread would have helped but it's my mistake.
Maybe you should re-read your post.
They were not. The X1000 may have been designed to work with the Xcore, but the people at XMOS certainly made no effort at all to make sure their Xcore product works with the X1000.
Yes, Varisys very likely did make sure it works on the X1000. XMOS had nothing to do with the design of the X1000 though, which is what you seem to have been implying recently. The Xcore is not a custom product.
Nope, not doing it deliberately but maybe your posts just don't make as much sense as you think they do, or maybe you just haven't really reviewed what is involved with the X1000. You were saying (in another post) that it had dual processors, which it does not. You then claimed the Xcore processor was designed for the X1000, then recanted that and claimed that the X1000 and Xcore were designed to work with each other, which they were not.
If you were truly as interested in the X1000 as you claim, I would expect you would know these things, hence I get the impression you may be trolling. Nothing wrong with that IMO, and if you aren't - well, then now you maybe know a bit more about the X1000 and the Xcore relationship.
However you still haven't explained how any of this will make the X1000 more valuable in the future. The Walker is worth money because it was an unfinished product that might have been the future of the Amiga. It's a rare glimpse into what could have happened to a widely known and respected product that the fanbase of the real Amiga miss and wish could have had a brighter future. The X1000 is a product nobody outside of a miniscule community know about or care about, it has no history, it makes zero impact in the world of computing, its probably future is failure, and nobody will miss it when it's gone - much like the Eyetech AmigaOne which currently sells for less than a set of stuffed donkey balls made in Tijuana. You claim it will increase in value, please give an believable explanation of why.
I reread my post and now i see what you were talking about. I made a grammar error. Again i know that xmos didn't make any design contribution to the X1000 and all the work was left to Trevor. I was just trying to explain that the X1000 is more than just a kit bash using Xcore. I didn't explain it well.
As for the dual core thing. I honestly didn't know that. You have never made a silly mistake before?
Looks like a case of crossed threads, I think Kesa was trying to say that the usage of the XCore etc. was not a straight case of slapping a chip (Xena) into the motherboard but that it had been further integrated into the overall design. By this I believe he is referring, at least in part, to the Xorro slot. As to the level of integration, in my own opinion, I think it's a case of wait and see. I like the idea of having this chip and slot to play with, it could be fun. Hyperion do need to make sure that the software tools are available within the OS to make proper use of it however. It's not all about hardware after all, the software has to back it up. let's not be total naysayers. I doubt if anyone ever considered that the A1200 clock port would be as important to so many of us as it has turned out to be when it was made.
And why so aggressive anyway folks, no need for name calling among friends.
Exactly what i was trying to say. Thanks! Why did i have so much trouble explaining that? Note to self - stop making posts after midnight :(
The cost per Walker was more like 11000 pounds when it was built for Amiga Technologies.
When i quoted the Walker i was just trying to show that certain piece of hardware can still retain high value. Not sure after a decade or so but if someone bought an X1000 today you could probably sell for a profit in a year or two when they stop production.
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@ Kesa
I wouldn't bother with what anyone has to say about you, it's not your fault that you're a wee bit dolly dimple... :)
Anywhoo... I reckon that's what make your posts such a good read, is trying to figure out if you're a crafty sly wee toadie who just likes taking the pee in an amusing and inoffensive way or if you are in fact as daft as a brush... :)
Keep on posting Kesa, the world needs more nutters like you... ;)
PS: If you are nuttier than a fruitcake then that makes you "normal" in my book, I'd rather be a bamstick than a pompous arse anyday... :D
PPS: If you're not a nutcase then it doesn't matter either, cos I'm convinced you are and I can spot a loony tune a mile away... :)
PPPS: Me dog just died again... or do dogs hibernate... :(
PPPPS: ME FRIGGIN ACOUNT IS STILL LOGGING ME OUT AFTER ONE RUDDY POST... :madashell:
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Kesa, you might want to sleep off the 12 pints mentioned in your signature before posting comments about technical details of any computer board designs. :lol:
HAHA! I don't seem to be doing very well lately do i?
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When i quoted the Walker i was just trying to show that certain piece of hardware can still retain high value. Not sure after a decade or so but if someone bought an X1000 today you could probably sell for a profit in a year or two when they stop production.
So, just hope A-eons folds quickly :-P
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Itix
Always the pessimist.
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I reread my post and now i see what you were talking about. I made a grammar error. Again i know that xmos didn't make any design contribution to the X1000 and all the work was left to Trevor. I was just trying to explain that the X1000 is more than just a kit bash using Xcore. I didn't explain it well.
Duh, i done it again! This just isn't my day :(
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Duh, i done it again! This just isn't my day :(
Keas,
The design is not Treavor's. It was created by Varisys, which has some experience with XMOS components (and designs PPC motherboards).
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Kesa,
Just take a break my friend.
Don't feel too bad: ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼
I dropped my doritos
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@Kesa,
I just consider it a misunderstanding, so, sorry. Didn't mean to argue with you, carry on!
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@jorkany
while I can't speak for @kesa, i know of at least three engineers in my office who wish to purchase one for their collections, and none of them care about the amiga. the reasons that I have, for example, are:
1. the inclusion of a PA6T in a consumer product
2. a consumer-oriented desktop which is not (specifically) meant to run windows, OSX, or Linux
3. the inclusion of an XMOS processor which has it's own custom I/O and is accessible via the GPIO lines from the PA6T
two of my friends are buying it for reason #1 alone. bear in mind they are interested as collectors, not users, so it certainly doesn't suggest interest from general computer users per se -- but there are a few folks out there interested in it due to it's rarity, the back-story behind its design, and the silicon they've included on the board.
the terons weren't nearly as interesting given that they were evaluation boards using commodity parts that had been breathed on for the amiga community. the pegasos was more or less the same story, although slightly more interesting because it was designed from the get-go as the basis for a desktop system. the X1000 is significantly more desirable for a collector than either of those boards by a long way.
-- eliyahu
Interesting. Please post back if they actually DO buy. I have quite a few "collectible" systems here myself. In my time I've worked at places that built their own hardware running proprietary OSes, essentially the same thing as an X1000 (custom mobo, SoC, custom software, etc). Some of those products would be considered extremely rare, but I can't think of any reason anyone would want to collect one of those systems unless they had worked with them (nostalgia).
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the terons weren't nearly as interesting given that they were evaluation boards using commodity parts that had been breathed on for the amiga community. the pegasos was more or less the same story, although slightly more interesting because it was designed from the get-go as the basis for a desktop system.
Umm comparing the Teron with the Pegasos is not even in the same ballpark. Those terons were crap eval boards that motorola themselves (the cpu supplier) couldnt even utilize. The pegasos is a custom designed multi layer board of substantially higher quality and is and end user product. Terons were NEVER intended to be sold to public, its quite lame that Hyperion and Eyetech did that,especially for those prices! But looks like a repeat job with X1000... the morph guys learned to use good commerical commodity hw (apple hw) OS4 should have went this route (project moana proves it why the *#(@&* would they abandon that project? licensing?)
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Those terons were crap eval boards that motorola themselves (the cpu supplier) couldnt even utilize. The pegasos is a custom designed multi layer board of substantially higher quality and is and end user product. Terons were NEVER intended to be sold to public, its quite lame that Hyperion and Eyetech did that,especially for those prices! But looks like a repeat job with X1000... the morph guys learned to use good commerical commodity hw (apple hw) OS4 should have went this route (project moana proves it why the *#(@&* would they abandon that project? licensing?)
Are you implying the X1000 is a 'crap board', or just expensive? ;>
Steve
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It will be interesting to see how well it behaves in terms of hardware reliability over time, such knowledge will only come with time however. I wouldn't mind some opinion on the build quality from someone who has actually had a chance to physically inspect one of these boards, anyone present able to do that?
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It will be interesting to see how well it behaves in terms of hardware reliability over time, such knowledge will only come with time however. I wouldn't mind some opinion on the build quality from someone who has actually had a chance to physically inspect one of these boards, anyone present able to do that?
I don't know about Nemo, but i believe Varisys has the capacity to design and build decent hardware.
I was in contact with them before it was announced that they'd worked with A-eon. They have some sharp, talented people.