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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: Gulliver on April 15, 2010, 06:05:33 PM

Title: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Gulliver on April 15, 2010, 06:05:33 PM
I sent an email to the creator of the widely known Amiga Professional Filesystem, Michiel Pelt, and he seems to be willing to share his creation with the entire comunity, and he is also willing to give away the sourcecode of it. For further details what follows is an email exchange we had, and will keep having :)

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Ignacio  wrote:

Hi, I am sorry to bother you with this ten year old stuff. The thing is that I have bought PFS 3 Amiga filesystem solution a couple of years ago.
It is great sofware for Amigas, and since you have been in the past a great supporter and developer for this now small Amiga community, is that I dare ask you if you could please allow me to put these files on the Public Domain, so that they are freely available to everyone. I would also add if you think it is necessary, that you wont provide any suport whatsoever, and not be liable for any damage at all.
By the way, if at some point, you are willing to give out the sources of this excellent software for non commercial purposes (If you still have them), that would be even better.
So please, just say yes.


Thank you for your time,
Regards,
Ignacio gully


--------------------------------------------


"Michiel Pelt"
Add sender to Contacts
To:
"Ignacio"
Hi Ignacio,

For me it are good old times. How different things would be if the
Amiga platform had been in capable hands. I remained hopeful for a
long time. I even have a complete design of PFS4 on the shelves, but
eventually I gave up on the promise of a future for the Amiga.  I
think it is great an Amiga community still exists though.

About your request. Yes, I think it is about time to make PFS3
available in the Public Domain. However I must think about the license
to use. Can you tell me what the main public domain channel for the
Amiga is these days?

I do still have the sources but I don't have an Amiga - my A4000 was
broken beyond repair and is gone now. I can't release the sources
without one because I have to make clear instructions of how to set up
the build environment and build PFS which I can't without being able
to verify. I guess I'll have to set up a WinUAE environment but then
there is the problem Amiga floppies cannot be read. I still have the
compiler, the workbench etc, but it is on floppy. So this is not going
to be easy. As you still are in the Amiga community, perhaps you have
some ideas.

Regards
Michiel Pelt
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Gulliver on April 15, 2010, 06:08:51 PM
This is the PFS3 feature list, for those that dont know much about this filesystem:

PFS Doctor, a repair program
User definable deldir up to 992 entries!
Extra long filenames, up to 100 characters (optional)
Improved long term performance, PFS3 hardly fragmentates !
HDInsttools for easy installation
Our own format command
Several bugfixes
superior performance. Up-to 500% improvement over FFS/DOS5!.  
disk are always valid. No more 'validation disk'!
supports partitions upto 104 Gigabyte
supports harddisk sizes upto 2000 Gigabyte
works on all Amiga's/harddisks without the need for extra hard or software!
TD64 support
excellent reliability
concurrent access without performance loss. PFS3 handles simultaneous accesses very well!
easy file-recovery with the delete directory. Getting a deleted file back never was so easy.
automatically truncated logfiles. Get rid of those ever growing logfiles.
multiuser support
Special upgrade price for PFS2 users, NLG 89 including P&P.
68000, 68020, 68040 and 68060 optimized versions

Built-in interface for the live optimiser that is under development. This interface makes it
possible to optimise the disk without taking it off-line. When the disk is accessed during
optimisation, PFS2 will stop the optimiser, which can continue afterwards. A dormant optimiser
can even be automatically notified when the system is idle, making optimisation completely
transparent.

improved testing procedures making PFS3 more stable and reliable then ever before.
enhanced documentation including programming docs (disk structure and special packets).
new versions of supplied tools (bug-fixes mostly), diskvalid etc
full support

early problem detection mechanism. The early problem detection mechanism detects problems with
your disk before it is too late, ensuring optimal protection of your data.

extended disk structure to make disk-repair easier
Comes on CD
PFS3 makes your Amiga faster!
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on April 15, 2010, 06:10:35 PM
Good. PFS did very well on some benchmark tests I saw a long time ago. Twice as fast as FFS in many tests? Anyone have a benchmark reference?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Robert17 on April 15, 2010, 06:14:40 PM
It's worth noting that it also works on 68000 based Amigas, whereas SFS requires an 020 or higher. I use PFS On an A500+ With a GVP HD8+ and it works very nicely :-)

Robert
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: koshman on April 15, 2010, 06:17:43 PM
Now that is some great news indeed!
It makes me happy to know that in these times when getting keys to old abandoned Amiga software is getting harder and harder, at least some of the authors are sensible enough to realize how much the community will appreciate them releasing their products for free when these cannot be bought any longer.
Hats off to Michiel Pelt and also to you, Gulliver, for your effort.

I hope others will follow...
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: wawrzon on April 15, 2010, 09:06:19 PM
this is truly very cool news. if i tried  also to contact him to buy a copy after sfs caused me trouble, but with no success. i fine with ffs for now but occasional validation failures, and now cubic_ide complaining about filesystem not supporting long filenames make me want to switch to psf even more.

gulliver, many thanks!!
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Dwyloc on April 15, 2010, 10:01:49 PM
Quote from: Robert17;553701
It's worth noting that it also works on 68000 based Amigas, whereas SFS requires an 020 or higher. I use PFS On an A500+ With a GVP HD8+ and it works very nicely :-)

Thanks for the reminder that PFS3 works on a 68000 based Amiga as I own and use a Minimig with a 68000 and arm addon board it sounds like PFS3 would be a better option than using FFS on my little Amiga clone if it dose become free :-)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Cammy on April 15, 2010, 11:13:52 PM
This is fantastic news! I will definitely be installing PFS3 on a few Amigas around the office soon, I've wanted to check it out on the 68000 Amigas for a while now.

It also makes me wonder how many other ex-Amiga coders would be willing to give up their source code if only we sent them a friendly email.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: NovaCoder on April 16, 2010, 12:28:52 AM
Nice work Gulliver, if you don't ask......you don't get ;)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: AmigaMance on April 16, 2010, 12:31:09 AM
Woohoo!

Quote from: NovaCoder;553749
Nice work Gulliver, if you don't ask......you don't get ;)

[evil mode]I wish i had the same luck with the author of FramSticks. He declined my request :pissed: [/evil mode]

Quote from: Fanscale;553700
Good. PFS did very well on some benchmark tests I saw a long time ago. Twice as fast as FFS in many tests? Anyone have a benchmark reference?

 I don't have a benchmark result at hand, but i'm sure that it's much more than twice as fast. It's faster than SFS in some operations, at least. This is for 68k Amigas.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: matthey on April 16, 2010, 05:00:58 AM
Great news! Thanks Michiel and Gulliver.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: whiteb on April 16, 2010, 06:04:19 AM
Quote from: Cammy;553742
This is fantastic news! I will definitely be installing PFS3 on a few Amigas around the office soon, I've wanted to check it out on the 68000 Amigas for a while now.

It also makes me wonder how many other ex-Amiga coders would be willing to give up their source code if only we sent them a friendly email.


I tried contacting the Author of Sysinfo, he seemed quite open to the idea, but alas he said he did not know where the source code was.......

Quote

Hi,

 

Wow a blast from the past.  Yes I am the same person and wrote that program in assembly language many years ago when I first started in computing.  I have no idea if I have the source code somewhere,  if I do I would need to try and find it,  its if the storage medium has survived these years I am really not sure.

 

the address in the current version being used by the community could be hacked and my current address put in.  If you can do this I suggest just hacking out the address and putting in my email address that wont change  nic@nicwilson.com   and or maybe the dvdinfopro web site.

I will see what I can find.

regards

Nic Wilson
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: mfilos on April 16, 2010, 06:05:16 AM
My friend Gulliver if Michiel does indeed needs an Amiga to test and release his wonderfull product, we could help him out by making him easily an A1200 for his purposes.
For my part, I have an A1200 mobo with 3.1 kickstart plus CF HD that I can part with. Finding a case plus the usual extra is easy as hell :) (I can gather this stuff out myself only if needed)
I just liked the things he said, and I salute a nice developer that he's willing to part with his work for the community.
Ask him if he would be willing to receive an A1200 for this goal and we'll be in touch my friend.

Cheers and thanks for asking all these peepz in the first place Gulliver.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Gulliver on April 16, 2010, 06:49:58 AM
@All
Thank you for your kind words. Lets be patient and keep our hopes high.

@Cammy and @whiteb
There is no deceit in asking. We should ask more devs, remember some of them are or have been great Amiga fans

@mfilos
I have already replied to Michel with some help for him. If that doesnt suit him, then I will surely need to ask a hand to generous users such as yourself.
On another related subject, I have more good news my friend, but will need to create a separate thread for that ;)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Karlos on April 16, 2010, 09:37:01 AM
An open PFS would be very nice. It is a quality filesystem.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Crumb on April 16, 2010, 10:22:17 AM
@Gulliver

Good job! I tried to contact him through the greed.nl addresses on february but when the messages bounced back I didn't spend time looking for more recent emails :-)

I have tried to contact with Chaozer for his WarpSDL sdk or sources so we could have fast SDL games on classics but there was no reply even using the more recent email

An Individual Computers Lyra2 keyboard adapter may be more useful for Michiel since he could connect a dutch keyboard
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: fishy_fiz on April 16, 2010, 10:57:15 AM
Cool stuff. I actually use pfs3 on Amithlon/OS3.9 as from my experiences its the most reliable 68k file system around. Speed wise sfs I think is faster, but that may also be due to better support for harddrive controller of my old amithlon computer.... the difference seems pretty small though in "feel" between the 2 on better supported athlon64 3200+ using sfs vs. core2duo@3.35ghz/not at good well supported core logic chipset/pfs3 (same 120gig ide drive). At a guess I'd say it's about 15 meg for pfs3 and 20 meg for sfs (sure, slow by modern standards, but really there's very little software on os3.x that needs massive throughput, and those that could theoretically benefit will become cpu/ram bound first (although having said that high quality dvd rips, for example, at original resoultion run fine). If anyone wants actual benchmark figures I guess I could set up an sfs partition again to test, but unless someone asks, I couldnt be bothered screwing around with partitions, Im pretty happy with how I've got my os3.9 install setup at the moment  :-)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Crumb on April 16, 2010, 11:01:48 AM
@fishy_fiz

if Michiel could find the sources it would be interesting if PFS3 could be updated to support >4GB files (at least on AROS/MOS/OS4/AfA)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Tahoe on April 16, 2010, 12:41:05 PM
Where does Michiel live? If we knew that, some Amiga owner close to him might step up and provide him with the machine(s) needed to source the missing sourcecode.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: recidivist on April 16, 2010, 01:38:01 PM
Gulliver,
Well good for you and Michael!
I didn't know anyone was even trying to get old software released.It is sad to know how much good old software will never be available because the company and author have moved on.
A toast to all authors  and owners who make their work available !
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: itix on April 16, 2010, 01:58:50 PM
Isnt PFS written in 68k asm?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: hardlink on April 16, 2010, 03:04:00 PM
Quote from: Karlos;553804
An open PFS would be very nice. It is a quality filesystem.


Yes it is. For me the biggest drawback is there is no DiskSalv available for it, which would have been handy a couple of times. Maybe now someone could develop one.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Tenacious on April 18, 2010, 02:48:36 AM
This is excellent!  I've been using PFS2 since it came out and started with AmiFileSafe (predecessor product).  I thought I had missed the opportunity to get PFS3.  Can't wait.

Thank You Michael and Gulliver!

PFS makes 7MHz Amigas feel very fast and responsive.

@ hardlink

I thought DiskSalv for PFS3 was in the works years ago, but, was never completed.  I have lost HDs that simply had to be reformatted.  Now I run with 2 identicale drives and back one to the other.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: stefcep2 on April 18, 2010, 03:46:07 AM
Quote from: Tenacious;554131
I thought DiskSalv for PFS3 was in the works years ago, but, was never completed.  I have lost HDs that simply had to be reformatted.  Now I run with 2 identicale drives and back one to the other.

Well THAT doesn't sound too encouraging!!.  The worst thing that a filesystem can do is lose your data!  I've never had an FFS drive that had to be reformatted, not saying it doesn't happen, but it never happened to me.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Tenacious on April 18, 2010, 04:32:22 AM
I can only blame my inability to express myself.  

The HDs, after many years, developed bad sectors (I got the HDs used, too).  At the time I was convinced this was brought on by the writing and re-writing of temp files that iBrowse caches onto a small partition.  As a result, I now try never to store those files on a HD.  Since they are soon obsolete anyway, I have only allowed them to gather on the ram disk since then.

The point is that PFS was not at fault.  The HD was.

My only concern was I never found a way to reformat that one bad partition.  After a while, that lost 100megs (out of 4 Gigs, grin) started bothering me.   IIRC, the Amiga wouldn't recognize it to reformat.   I had to move all data (on the other partitions) to another HD.  Then the whole drive could be re-formated, repartitioned, and it then served many more years.  This may have nothing to do with PFS.

To be clear, I think PFS is the fastest and most reliable file system I've used on the Amiga.  If data is important, having backups is fundamental, regardless of the file system it's indexed with.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: delshay on April 18, 2010, 12:46:42 PM
if and when it gets release it needs to go PPC....PFS4.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: wawrzon on April 18, 2010, 12:52:02 PM
Quote from: delshay;554180
if and when it gets release it needs to go PPC....PFS4.


what 4?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: delshay on April 18, 2010, 01:17:29 PM
Quote from: wawrzon;554182
what 4?


there is no PFS4 but i do belive there was plans for PFS4. perhaps someone can comfirm this.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Piru on April 18, 2010, 01:30:48 PM
Quote from: delshay;554180
if and when it gets release it needs to go PPC....PFS4.

Not really. The filesystem is I/O bound anyway, so there is little benefit from porting it to PPC.

I've used PFS3 as my main filesystem on MorphOS for 10 years now.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Karlos on April 18, 2010, 01:51:58 PM
Quote from: Piru;554188
Not really. The filesystem is I/O bound anyway, so there is little benefit from porting it to PPC.

I've used PFS3 as my main filesystem on MorphOS for 10 years now.

I don't really see it as a performance issue but at the very least, making a platform-independent version written purely in C would be a good idea such that it can be used with AROS. In doing so you open the door for a PPC native version anyway.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Golem!dk on April 18, 2010, 01:58:19 PM
Quote from: hardlink;553866
Yes it is. For me the biggest drawback is there is no DiskSalv available for it, which would have been handy a couple of times. Maybe now someone could develop one.


Didn't DiskSalv have some Ami-FileSafe support in the last version? And of course you do get PFSDoctor included with PFS3, not that I ever needed it here.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: wawrzon on April 18, 2010, 02:19:55 PM
Quote from: Piru;554188
Not really. The filesystem is I/O bound anyway, so there is little benefit from porting it to PPC.

I've used PFS3 as my main filesystem on MorphOS for 10 years now.


exactly what i wanted to say, no need to port it to ppc.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Karlos on April 18, 2010, 02:46:17 PM
Quote from: wawrzon;554195
exactly what i wanted to say, no need to port it to ppc.


As I said, think not of the speed increase (if any) but the portability aspect.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: zipper on April 18, 2010, 03:03:28 PM
Quote from: Golem!dk;554192
Didn't DiskSalv have some Ami-FileSafe support in the last version?


AFAIR it worked just on the root level, not deeper in the directories.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Golem!dk on April 18, 2010, 03:11:40 PM
Quote from: zipper;554212
AFAIR it worked just on the root level, not deeper in the directories.


Ok, been a while since I looked at it, and of course with DiskSalv you're also stuck with <4GB disks.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: warpdesign on April 18, 2010, 04:40:14 PM
Good news!

It's great to see some open-mind... What would happen if every developer was that opened... hmmm.. :)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: warpdesign on April 18, 2010, 04:49:53 PM
@Gulliver: what about building a list of software that has been released as free and/or open source ? Could be useful. You could also use that to convince more people to release their software...
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: warpdesign on April 18, 2010, 04:51:12 PM
Quote

Yes it is. For me the biggest drawback is there is no DiskSalv available for it, which would have been handy a couple of times. Maybe now someone could develop one.

Well... maybe it could be done if Dave released the sources of DiskSalv... Gulliver: ever thought about contacting Dave Haynie ? ;)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: DaMi1 on April 18, 2010, 05:34:40 PM
Quote from: AmigaMance;553750
I don't have a benchmark result at hand, but i'm sure that it's much more than twice as fast. It's faster than SFS in some operations, at least. This is for 68k Amigas.
About a year ago I did some complex testing how efficient is the PFS3 on ide bus of amiga 1200 but with different turbocards. If you are interested here are details:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=cs&ie=UTF-8&sl=cs&tl=en&u=http://www.amigaportal.cz/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26view%3Darticle%26id%3D3965:porovnani-vykonu-pfs3-na-internim-ide-adii-amigy-1200%26catid%3D301:amigaos-3x%26Itemid%3D200273&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhiwo06PdkbA-jUX8z-bBGI4rJecAQ

The article is originaly in Czech language and it is translated via Google Translator. I gathered the data in DiskSpeed and analyzed in ms excel.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Gulliver on April 18, 2010, 06:02:55 PM
Quote from: warpdesign;554253
@Gulliver: what about building a list of software that has been released as free and/or open source ? Could be useful. You could also use that to convince more people to release their software...

Okay, so that you know who I contacted, and the results I got so far:

Tobias Abt - Picasso96 - Got a response, it was NO
Heinz Wrobel - Envoy3 - Got a response, it was NO
Chris Hames - PCTask - YES to binaries
Michiel Pelt - PFS3 - YES to binaries and source, but will have to wait till he solves some issues
Holger Kruze - Miami Deluxe - Awaiting answer. Still to early to declare unanswered
Thomas Frieden/Hyperion - Warp3D - No answer
Stefan Stuntz - MUI 3.8 - No answer
Stephen Fellner - RiVA - Yes, but doesnt have enough time to look into the matter and release it
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: wawrzon on April 18, 2010, 07:04:08 PM
Quote from: Gulliver;554260
Okay, so that you know who I contacted, and the results I got so far:

Tobias Abt - Picasso96 - Got a response, it was NO
Heinz Wrobel - Envoy3 - Got a response, it was NO
Chris Hames - PCTask - YES to binaries
Michiel Pelt - PFS3 - YES to binaries and source, but will have to wait till he solves some issues
Holger Kruze - Miami Deluxe - Awaiting answer. Still to early to declare unanswered
Thomas Frieden/Hyperion - Warp3D - No answer
Stefan Stuntz - MUI 3.8 - No answer
Stephen Fellner - RiVA - Yes, but doesnt have enough time to look into the matter and release it


i think you can unfortunatelly forget warp3d. we (actually matthey) havnt got any answer from hyperion as we were asking for sources alone to fix warp3d, so that it is practically usable, not to give it away. otherwie its licence states that it can be distributed for free.

in particular it says this:
Quote

Warp3D may be distributed  unmodified
and  free  of  charge  with  any project, commercial, freeware or
shareware. Warp3D may not be modified in any way and  distributed
in  its  modified  form  without  the prior written permission of
Hyperion Entertainment. The Warp3D API is copyrighted by Hyperion
Entertainment  and  its  authors  and  may  not be re-implemented
without the express written permission of Hyperion Entertainment.
Developers  can  make  use  of  Warp3D  in  their  commercial and
non-commercial projects free of charge.



i think similar applies to mui. i wasnt even able to register it. what a shame.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: chris on April 18, 2010, 10:02:45 PM
Quote from: wawrzon;554271
i think you can unfortunatelly forget warp3d. we (actually matthey) havnt got any answer from hyperion as we were asking for sources alone to fix warp3d, so that it is practically usable, not to give it away. otherwie its licence states that it can be distributed for free.


Won't happen as it's part of OS4 these days. Same applies to Picasso96.

Quote

i think similar applies to mui. i wasnt even able to register it. what a shame.


I've no idea about registration of MUI, but development continues mostly as part of MorphOS AFAIK.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: wawrzon on April 18, 2010, 10:47:46 PM
instead of asking to opensource mui, we should push forward zune on aros and help to debug its 68k port by bernd, distributed with the afaos.

edit: as for w3d i must admit i do not know its actual licence status. as far as i know the system was originally developed by haage and partner, so maybe it is again only licenced to hyperion along with a right to develop drivers since h&p is not in amiga buissness anymore, but could still remain the holder of ip. somone has any clue on that? otherwise we could put it down in the future in favour of gallium anyway.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: hardlink on April 19, 2010, 07:07:43 PM
Quote from: warpdesign;554254
Well... maybe it could be done if Dave released the sources of DiskSalv... Gulliver: ever thought about contacting Dave Haynie ? ;)


I approached Dave several years ago about taking a crack at maintaining DiskSalv, but he already had somebody lined up to do it. However, this was in his back yard during a HaynieFest, we were all drinking beer, his band was about to start playing, and I don't think it's a big priority for him now. I'm just glad I didn't have be the driver home that night, 2 states away :)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Gulliver on May 04, 2010, 09:44:17 AM
I got a progress report. Email follows. But before posting it, he mentions that he needs a working 100MB zip drive to recover some files. Does anybody have one to send him for free (he lives in Holland)?
_______________________________________________________________

From:
"Michiel Pelt"
Add sender to Contacts
To:
"Ignacio"
Hi Ignacio,

First thing is the binary release on aminet. You can expect that soon
enough. Source code release just needs some time. I do have the
sources. But you should realize PFS3 is a complex piece of software
and this includes the build. I cannot throw it in the public domain
just as it is, it has to be bundled in a nice package with clear
instructions.

To do that I first have to create a working build environment myself,
and I am not quite there yet. I have the sources. I have a licensed
copy of WinUAE. The compiler, SAS C, I had on original floppy disk,
but I downloaded it already (I do have a license).

I appreciate the help offered and I might need some. I am not sure
about the license to use. All I really want is credit whenever someone
uses any of it - that is I have to be mentioned and I want to be
informed about it.

Also, do you know someone in the possession of a working 100MB zip
drive? I have some pfs-formatted zip disks that may have some useful
stuff on it.

Best regards,

Michiel Pelt
_______________________________________________________________

So anyone has a zip drive to give away for free To Michiel?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Tahoe on May 04, 2010, 10:25:28 AM
Send me Michiel's contact details and I'll get a zip drive to him.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Gulliver on May 04, 2010, 10:35:05 AM
@Tahoe
Thanks, I have just sent you a private message!
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Gulliver on May 10, 2010, 10:41:42 AM
From:
"Michiel Pelt"
Add sender to Contacts
To:
"Ignacio"
> On the other hand, many people are intrigued by your PFS4. Do you have at least a draft of what was supposed to feature? It will be interesting to have any information regarding this filesystem.

PFS3 was a very modern and advanced filesystem for its time, not only
looking at the Amiga market, but at filesystems in general. Over the
years many of the ideas found in PFS3 have been incorporated in other
filesystems. PFS3 was one of the first to be atomic, now more have
this feature. Rollover files still seem to be unique to PFS3.

PFS3 was based on the original shareware PFS which was designed as a
floppy filesystem. A lot of changes have been made to make PFS work on
ever larger harddisks and the result was PFS3 which works pretty well.
The most recent Linux filesystems like Reiser4 surpass it though, but
there is one area where PFS3 remains king: the floppy or other
relatively small removable disks like ZIP, what it was originally
designed to work on.

PFS4 is a new design from the ground up. It takes the good things from
PFS3 and adds new ideas inspired by scientific papers and open source
filesystems like Reiser. Most notable improvements compared to PFS3
are
- B+ tree for directory structure which improves scalability and
handling of large directories.
- Redesign of the atomic commit feature.
- Automatic grouping of small files which results in both more
storagespace and better performance.
- Builtin automatic defragmentation and improved fragmentation prevention.

Note that PFS4 only exists on paper.

Best regards,

Michiel Pelt
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Gulliver on May 28, 2010, 11:45:22 PM
Just to keep you all updated. AndreasM, the guy in charge of the Amiga Future magazine, asked me for the email of Michiel Pelt, which I gladly gave him.

What follows is a brief email update from Michiel:  


From:
"Michiel Pelt"
Add sender to Contacts
To:
"Ignacio"

Ignacio,

The full PFS3 will be available on the Amiga Future cover disk as is.
This will consist of the files directly taken from the original CD.

Best regards

Michiel Pelt
author of PFS3
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: trip6 on May 29, 2010, 12:43:11 AM
What issue number of Amiga Future?

Quote from: Gulliver;561777
Just to keep you all updated. AndreasM, the guy in charge of the Amiga Future magazine, asked me for the email of Michiel Pelt, which I gladly gave him.

What follows is a brief email update from Michiel:  


From:
"Michiel Pelt"
Add sender to Contacts
To:
"Ignacio"

Ignacio,

The full PFS3 will be available on the Amiga Future cover disk as is.
This will consist of the files directly taken from the original CD.

Best regards

Michiel Pelt
author of PFS3
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: whiteb on May 29, 2010, 01:13:30 AM
YOU GOT TO BE JOKING ME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We all were under the belief this was to be released to the AMIGA COMMUNITY, starting with a version on AMINET, and it gets handed lock stock and barrel over to AmigaFuture ?

Joke right ?

Nice going Gulliver, you just allowed Andreas ToolBox to pull the rug out from underneath your feet.

You did the work, Andreas gets all the credit, and AF magazines sold, I credit you with the effort and work to get PFS released, but thats just *STUPID* to let Andreas steal it from you.

Oh god you have NO IDEA how ANGRY I am at you for allowing it to slip away to AF.  AF is COMMERCIAL, so much for releasing it to Public domain for NON COMMERCIAL purposes.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: TheBilgeRat on May 29, 2010, 03:14:23 AM
So... what exactly happened here?  and how does one get a subscription to the AF magazine?  The website is in broken german and I have no idea how to pay for a subscription.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: arnljot on May 29, 2010, 03:29:49 AM
You can buy a subscription to AmigaFuture from amigakit.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: whiteb on May 29, 2010, 03:38:39 AM
Quote from: arnljot;561809
You can buy a subscription to AmigaFuture from amigakit.

You should not need to, according to the emails that Gulliver posted, it was to be posted as Public Domain to Aminet, And source Public Domain if supplied and used as NON COMMERCIAL.

Yet now the first thing we get, it has been commercialized to AmigaFuture.  Unless this is a first step by AndreasM to attempt to commercialize files intended for Aminet.  But of course, if it was released to Aminet *FIRST*, then people would not BUY AmigaFuture.., which after this PATHETIC move, I urge people NOT TO DO !

As it was the intention of the Author to release PFS in to Aminet BEFORE AndreasM got his GRIMY hands on it, I suggest a DUAL release, of AmigaFuture *AND* aminet AT THE SAME TIME.  I do not support the "Antics" of AndreasM, seems this has MOST CERTAINLY backed up what is being saying about him in the Amiga Community. (Supplying illegal Kickstart and Workbench images, for profit, and intimidates people for things he doers not even have ANY claim under copyright to).
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: TheBilgeRat on May 29, 2010, 04:01:24 AM
I'm mainly confused by the chronology.  AFAIK, it went :

1.  Gulliver emails old crusty developer asks for open source, gets answerin affirmative.
2.  Crusty developer (or CD) needs help getting source off old media, etc.  Which he gets.
3.  AF magazine asks Gulliver for contact info for CD (out of the blue?), which Gulliver gives out.
4. ????
5.  Gulliver gets reply that CD is now only distributing through AF magazine.


There seems to be  lot missing in this story, especially around the region 4 there...  I guess the inclination is that CD is getting paid by AF?  If so, why is that bad?  I realize he suggested he'd release it open source, but it ain't like the economy is really great, and amiga magazines were the way cool crap got distributed.  So, after heading over to Amigakit it looks like its 10 bucks a magazine, or 80 some for an annual subscription.  Hey, I'm all for open source, but I am also all for someone making some scratch off of their labor as well, even if he was gently reminded that something he did in the past has some demand.  I for one would like to hear more detail about what transpired before passing judgement.  I will also, though, most likely throw down my 10 dollars to encourage the man to "come back to the (amiga) light", as it were.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: whiteb on May 29, 2010, 04:11:31 AM
I am Utter Pissed it went to Andreas of all people, KING of infringing copyright.., given the amount of kickstart/Workbench he has ILLEGALLY sold, and at least not compensated the copyright holders (Word is, Hundreds of THOUSANDS of Euro).

It was intended (as per the wording of the email) to release it to PUBLIC DOMAIN via Aminet.

We are NOT talking about exclusive rights to distribute on a Magazine here, once again, Andreas is looking to PROFIT from something that he SHOULD NOT. (He knows how people feel about him).  Maybe if ANDREAS had done all the initial contact, and discussing with regards to EXCLUSIVE release.  Gulliver did all the foot work (okay email work), and Andreas benefits from it ?

Okay, *WILL* Andreas be giving any royalty fee for copies of AF sold, to michael ?, has he in ANY way compensated the Author for distributing the software via a COMMERCIAL medium ?  Will Andreas be COMPENSATING GULLIVER for his time and effort to get the Author to be willing to release the software ?

Come Andreas, OUT WITH IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But one thing, Michael (Pelt), I would keep an eye on Andreas if I were you, next he will be claiming he OWNS the copyright to PFS because it appeared in AF, and that he doesnt need to show us any contract, JUST his word (And you KNOW exactly what i mean Andreas!)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: modrobert on May 29, 2010, 04:37:26 AM
I agree with whiteb here, and just want to add that scum who tries to profit from noble situations like this are about as low as you can get.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Tenacious on May 29, 2010, 04:42:36 AM
Quote from: whiteb;561795
YOU GOT TO BE JOKING ME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We all were under the belief this was to be released to the AMIGA COMMUNITY, starting with a version on AMINET, and it gets handed lock stock and barrel over to AmigaFuture ?

Joke right ?

Nice going Gulliver, you just allowed Andreas ToolBox to pull the rug out from underneath your feet.

You did the work, Andreas gets all the credit, and AF magazines sold, I credit you with the effort and work to get PFS released, but thats just *STUPID* to let Andreas steal it from you.

Oh god you have NO IDEA how ANGRY I am at you for allowing it to slip away to AF.  AF is COMMERCIAL, so much for releasing it to Public domain for NON COMMERCIAL purposes.


It is unfair to put this on Gulliver.  It seems he acted in good faith for all of us.  How is he responsible for what the other two parties choose to do?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: whiteb on May 29, 2010, 04:56:00 AM
Quote from: Tenacious;561829
It is unfair to put this on Gulliver.  It seems he acted in good faith for all of us.  How is he responsible for what the other two parties choose to do?


He did good by approaching the author, and that cannot be taken from him, but he then passed on AndreasM's details to Michael..

As I said, Andreas has the decency of a SKUNK, and now PFS ends up on the Skunk's masterpiece.  UNLESS, Andreas *HAS* compensated Mr Pelt for the honor, but going by AndreasM's history, probably not.

And i stand by my comment, I expect Andreas to then turn around and announce he owns the copyright, without actually legally acquiring it, and not producing PROOF (as he has done previously).

I apologize in advance for insulting skunk's with their portrayal with Andreas.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Tenacious on May 29, 2010, 05:06:11 AM
Thank you, Gulliver, for your efforts for our community and for your good intentions.  

Maybe this can still work out, but if not, I think you acted in good faith.  


Andreas has never been on my radar.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: TheBilgeRat on May 29, 2010, 05:54:51 AM
Wow!  No idea that this guy was such a dirtbag.  What a bummer :(
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: NovaCoder on May 29, 2010, 11:26:44 AM
I think certain people are blowing things out of proportion on this thread.  So what if AF magazine want to feature it on the cover-disk so that people can get it easily, as long as it's also available from other sources then it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: warpdesign on May 29, 2010, 12:07:56 PM
I fail to see the problem. If PFS3 gets *open-sourced*, then it wouldn't be a problem to take the sources from AF CD and release it to Aminet, or anywhere else, right ?

Unless some weird licence is added while going through the AF CD that prevents that. But PFS3's author can't get fooled this way, right ?

I'm always amazed at how people talk about money, profit,... in such a tiny community where there shouldn't be *any* money involved at all.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: whiteb on May 29, 2010, 12:33:32 PM
Quote from: NovaCoder;561869
I think certain people are blowing things out of proportion on this thread.  So what if AF magazine want to feature it on the cover-disk so that people can get it easily, as long as it's also available from other sources then it doesn't matter.


*IF* it gets released say on Aminet AT THE SAME TIME, but you watch for the words "AF EXCLUSIVE"...

Thats the DOGSHIT in this case, and of course, the DOG being ANDREASM.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: whiteb on May 29, 2010, 12:52:30 PM
Quote from: warpdesign;561872
I fail to see the problem. If PFS3 gets *open-sourced*, then it wouldn't be a problem to take the sources from AF CD and release it to Aminet, or anywhere else, right ?

Unless some weird licence is added while going through the AF CD that prevents that. But PFS3's author can't get fooled this way, right ?

I'm always amazed at how people talk about money, profit,... in such a tiny community where there shouldn't be *any* money involved at all.

No, its not that.., if you MADE the software, such as in this case, Michael Pelt then you DESERVE to be rewarded.  In this case, Michael has made his intentions to release it to Aminet (Via Gulliver), but now its going to be an Exclusive AF release ?

I just came out of an online chat with other people, and Yes, they too have read this thread, and they are as outraged as I am.  AndreasM has been and probably still is in the practice of selling (For profit) Workbench/Kickstart..... ILLEGALLY, as he has this God like Ego where he THINKS he has the right to do it, and at this time probably thinks he OWNS the brand AMIGA..., but he believes he does not have to PROVE he owns the items.  (Yes he actually said that, "I Dont have to PROVE to you I own ....xxxx...".

Heck, Michael in his emails to Gulliver expressed that source (And I assume the binaries) was to be released in to Public Domain, with the distinct expression "NOT FOR COMMERCIAL USES".  Well, using AF to release PFS3, is about as COMMERCIAL as you can get it.  And the GOD of copyright infringement himself of all people.  There are even people calling out for AndreasM to be BANNED, at least from EAB.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Gulliver on May 29, 2010, 01:27:24 PM
Well, it seems this subject has brought some debate.

First, let me clarify my intentions which have remained the same since the begining of this PFS3 affair:
I already own, since a few years, a legal copy of PFS3, and so basicly, all I wanted is to ask the developer to relese it for free so that all users could enjoy the same excellent filesystem I was using, which I still believe to be the best on Amigas. I also asked him for the sourcecode. I am not a coder, and I havent got the skills to tinker with it, but I thought it would be great for further improvements, bugfixes, updates, and the possibility of being ported to other Amigoid OSes, so that it could even run natively on them.

So, my idea was purely for the benefit of the entire Amiga community (Amig68k, OS4, MorphOS, AROS, etc), no matter how bitter, twisted or divided it is. I dont gain a single thing from this, and I really dont expect credit to be given to me, I am not after it, and it really doesnt mean anything.
It was just an act of good will from an Amiga fan :)

I am truly sorry if some of you feel that I had taken the wrong decision regarding the fact that I gave the email address of Mr. Pelt to AndreasM. But I thought it was a step in the right direction (making PFS3 availble), perhaps I was too naive, I really dont know.

Bottomline: I know PFS3 will be released both as binary and sourcecode, for free, for everyone, as intended. It will just be a matter of time. And the rest, well, it is upto you to be the judge.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Piru on May 29, 2010, 01:39:32 PM
Quote from: Gulliver;561886
I also asked him for the sourcecode. I am not a coder, and I havent got the skills to tinker with it, but I thought it would be great for further improvements, bugfixes, updates

I see a great danger here. Different factions creating their own, incompatible versions.

Quote
the possibility of being ported to other Amigoid OSes, so that it could even run natively on them.

So finally the other OSes could join the MorphOS club: MorphOS has been able to use PFS3 since the beginning.

Considering how bad SFS is this would be great indeed.

PS. Personally I doubt that getting ported to native code would benefit the performance: Filesystems are greatly bound by the I/O for their performance not filesystem code execution speed.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Gulliver on May 29, 2010, 01:45:05 PM
@Piru
I am not a coder, and I see you have valid arguments. Well... it was one of my naive ideas :)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: itix on May 29, 2010, 01:50:58 PM
Aint PFS3 written in 68k asm or am I mistaken?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Piru on May 29, 2010, 02:02:24 PM
Quote from: itix;561893
Aint PFS3 written in 68k asm or am I mistaken?

I've done some manual patching to fix some issues and the disassembly looks C to me. I bet there are some asm optimizations here and there though.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Fats on May 29, 2010, 02:27:20 PM
Quote from: whiteb;561881

I just came out of an online chat with other people, and Yes, they too have read this thread, and they are as outraged as I am.  AndreasM has been and probably still is in the practice of selling (For profit) Workbench/Kickstart..... ILLEGALLY, as he has this God like Ego where he THINKS he has the right to do it, and at this time probably thinks he OWNS the brand AMIGA..., but he believes he does not have to PROVE he owns the items.  (Yes he actually said that, "I Dont have to PROVE to you I own ....xxxx...".


I would like to have some more background here, I really would like to know the facts.
Actually Andreas is right: he does not have to prove to you that he owns something he sells. He does have to do it to people who claim to own something themselves; even before court if they can't solve it in another manner. Of course you are free to not buy from him.

greets,
Staf.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: wizard66 on May 30, 2010, 11:17:32 AM
Quote from: Dwyloc;553726
Thanks for the reminder that PFS3 works on a 68000 based Amiga as I own and use a Minimig with a 68000 and arm addon board it sounds like PFS3 would be a better option than using FFS on my little Amiga clone if it dose become free :-)


I can Confirm that PFS3 is working on the minimig just fine.
I digged up a version from PFS3 on one of my cd's
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: TheBilgeRat on May 31, 2010, 12:52:48 AM
Any more info as to this issue?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: whiteb on May 31, 2010, 01:02:05 AM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;562152
Any more info as to this issue?


You will not get any information now that it has been handed over to AndreasM, for inclusion with AF.  Its not FREE any more, its been given lock stock and barrel to AmigaFuture.

AndreasM has stated in a (Now Deleted by AndreasM) post on EAB, that it is a NON-EXCLUSIVE release on the coverdisk of AF, but Pelt asked him *NOT* to put it up for free on the download section of the website.  Given that Pelt Intends (or Intended) to upload it to Aminet, why would he all of a sudden deny the files being HOSTED, FOR FREE download from the AF website.

Once again, AndreasM is doing some crap talking, after all, why come out of the closet and state that it is NON EXCLUSIVE, then go back and delete all the text from the post ?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: stefcep2 on May 31, 2010, 02:23:42 AM
Quote from: whiteb;562153
You will not get any information now that it has been handed over to AndreasM, for inclusion with AF.  Its not FREE any more, its been given lock stock and barrel to AmigaFuture.

AndreasM has stated in a (Now Deleted by AndreasM) post on EAB, that it is a NON-EXCLUSIVE release on the coverdisk of AF, but Pelt asked him *NOT* to put it up for free on the download section of the website.  Given that Pelt Intends (or Intended) to upload it to Aminet, why would he all of a sudden deny the files being HOSTED, FOR FREE download from the AF website.

Once again, AndreasM is doing some crap talking, after all, why come out of the closet and state that it is NON EXCLUSIVE, then go back and delete all the text from the post ?


Sounds very ambiguous to me.  Pelt may not have wanted PFS3 on AF website for a lot of reasons, none of which mean that PFS3 will not be available for free on websites like Aminet.

best wait until Pelt actually makes a statement on PFS3
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Gulliver on May 31, 2010, 07:39:09 PM
I just got a reply from Michiel, here it is:


Re: PFS3
Monday, May 31, 2010 11:09 AM
From:
"Michiel Pelt"
Add sender to Contacts
To:
"Ignacio"
> Thank you for letting me know. I just wanted to ask you two things:
> 1-Are you still going to release the PFS3 cdrom on Aminet, so that it becomes publicly availble?

Not exactly. First of all, the CD ROM also contains Kang Fu, which
will not be included. Secondly, the PFS3 on the CD is a commercial
release, with serial number registration etc. I will remove this and
make some other changes to reflect that it is a public domain release.
Since this takes some time, and you are all waiting so eagerly, I
decided to agree to publish PFS3 as is on the coverdisk of Amiga
Future. In other words: on the Amiga Future coverdisk you get a
licensed copy of the commercial PFS3 for free, on Aminet there will be
a public domain distribution of PFS3.

> 2-How is the work on the sources going?

It is just a matter that needs some of my time, which is rather
limited at the moment.

Best regards

Michiel Pelt
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: TheBilgeRat on May 31, 2010, 08:30:09 PM
Thanks, Gulliver!  This illuminates the issue sufficently for me :).
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: ZeBeeDee on May 31, 2010, 08:31:04 PM
I bet $20 somebody will buy AF just for PFS3 and then "accidently" upload it somewhere, serial and all then let slip where to download it
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: motrucker on May 31, 2010, 08:52:33 PM
Quote from: Gulliver;561886
Well, it seems this subject has brought some debate.

First, let me clarify my intentions which have remained the same since the begining of this PFS3 affair....
I already own, since a few years, a legal copy of PFS3, and so basicly, all I wanted is to ask the...
It was just an act of good will from an Amiga fan :)

I am truly sorry if some of you feel that I had taken the wrong decision regarding the fact that I gave the email address of Mr. Pelt to AndreasM. But I thought it was a step in the right direction (making PFS3 availble), perhaps I was too naive, I really dont know.

Bottomline: I know PFS3 will be released both as binary and sourcecode, for free, for everyone, as intended. It will just be a matter of time. And the rest, well, it is upto you to be the judge.

Naive is an understatement! But we can't blame you, since you didn't know.. The problem is, that now PFS3 is dead. We will never see a PD release, AF will see to that.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: sbeehre on May 31, 2010, 09:56:31 PM
Quote from: ZeBeeDee;562249
I bet $20 somebody will buy AF just for PFS3 and then "accidently" upload it somewhere, serial and all then let slip where to download it


i think that's what exactly what should happen
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Gulliver on May 31, 2010, 10:11:58 PM
Quote from: motrucker;562252
Naive is an understatement! But we can't blame you, since you didn't know.. The problem is, that now PFS3 is dead. We will never see a PD release, AF will see to that.

You seem to have missed Michiel last email, just above, where he confirms the opposite. :)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Gulliver on May 31, 2010, 10:18:46 PM
Quote from: sbeehre;562265
i think that's what exactly what should happen


While I undertsand how you feel, and I personally have an open mind regarding software piracy/abandonware, I believe that it could have a negative impact on the process of getting the sourcecode of PFS3 publicly available. So please before doing that, be aware of the implications. :)

At the end, we will get something better than what Amiga Fututre will offer, it is just that we will have to wait a little bit longer.

But then, it is your call.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: sbeehre on May 31, 2010, 11:22:14 PM
Quote from: Gulliver;562269
While I undertsand how you feel, and I personally have an open mind regarding software piracy/abandonware, I believe that it could have a negative impact on the process of getting the sourcecode of PFS3 publicly available. So please before doing that, be aware of the implications. :)

At the end, we will get something better than what Amiga Fututre will offer, it is just that we will have to wait a little bit longer.

But then, it is your call.


just to make it clear i wont be doing it but wouldnt have a problem with it if it happened :)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: whiteb on May 31, 2010, 11:51:46 PM
Quote from: Gulliver;562267
You seem to have missed Michiel last email, just above, where he confirms the opposite. :)

You seem to have missed everyone's argument here, this is AndreasM we are talking about.

What Pelt has said, and what AndreasM *THINKS* are TWO entirely different things.  Going by AndreasM's previous history.

Andreas will be making a Monetary reward from the sale of the Coverdisks, off of the back of your efforts in negotiating with Pelt.., Has Andreas given you any reward (Even a FREE copy of the edition in question) for your effort, that he *WILL* be profiting from ?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: kolla on June 01, 2010, 07:17:47 AM
Quote from: Piru;561889
I see a great danger here. Different factions creating their own, incompatible versions.


That has more to do with egotripping socially incompatible amiga developers than with making anything Open Source.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Fats on June 01, 2010, 08:57:41 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;562248
Thanks, Gulliver!  This illuminates the issue sufficently for me :).


For me too but I'm sure this won't stop whiteb's quest against AndreasM.

greets,
Staf.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: krashan on July 06, 2010, 06:46:51 PM
Quote from: whiteb;562276
What Pelt has said, and what AndreasM *THINKS* are TWO entirely different things.

It looks like you've succesfully designed and constructed a mind reading device ;-).
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: broken on July 09, 2010, 02:25:27 AM
So, any update on availability of PFS3?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: whiteb on July 09, 2010, 02:27:33 AM
Quote from: broken;569579
So, any update on availability of PFS3?


Nope, only that AF got an authority from Pelt to include PFS on an edition of AF, then all other "Releases", which included Aminet suddenly died in the ass.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: broken on July 09, 2010, 02:35:54 AM
Quote from: whiteb;569580
Nope, only that AF got an authority from Pelt to include PFS on an edition of AF...



Like I said, any word on its "availability".

;)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: whiteb on July 09, 2010, 03:00:48 AM
Quote from: broken;569582
Like I said, any word on its "availability".

;)

I am not buying AF on the principle of Andreas(M)'s actions, I am not going to speak for any one else...., just me.

But PFS is now available on an available edition of AF, I wont say where, because I personally do not want to give AF credit for Pulling the rug out from under our feet.

Quote
Extras:
PC Task, T.U.R.D.II, The First Samurai, Hammerfist, Second Samurai, Street Racer, Time Machine, Professional File System III (PFS3)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: NovaCoder on July 09, 2010, 04:04:14 AM
Quote from: broken;569582
Like I said, any word on its "availability".

;)


You just need a kind AF subscriber to upload it for you and job's done :)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: AndreasM on July 09, 2010, 07:57:49 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;569589
You just need a kind AF subscriber to upload it for you and job's done :)


And damage the chance that the developer make PFS Open Source?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: AndreasM on July 09, 2010, 08:04:55 AM
Quote from: whiteb;569586
I am not buying AF on the principle of Andreas(M)'s actions,


Which actions?

That we attack back when anyone make us trouble?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: amigadave on July 09, 2010, 11:00:54 AM
Quote from: AndreasM;569608
Which actions?

That we attack back when anyone make us trouble?

I would guess the "assumed" actions  whiteb is writing about are your actions of talking the developer of PSF3 into NOT releasing the executable and source code for PSF3 to Aminet, as he had previously stated he was going to do, until you have time to sell more of your AF magazines.

That is just my guess though.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: AndreasM on July 09, 2010, 11:10:36 AM
Quote from: amigadave;569619
I would guess the "assumed" actions  whiteb is writing about are your actions of talking the developer of PSF3 into NOT releasing the executable and source code for PSF3 to Aminet, as he had previously stated he was going to do, until you have time to sell more of your AF magazines.

That is just my guess though.


but thats not true. we never talk with the developer that he dont release PFS3 to Aminet. We talke only fopr a permission for the Amiga Future, too.

You know that the developer work at the moment at a special version, included source for the Aminet?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: whiteb on July 09, 2010, 01:11:32 PM
Quote from: AndreasM;569608
Which actions?

That we attack back when anyone make us trouble?


Your previous actions causing people to doubt your actions with PFS, And do not try to deny that you know nothing of that you are "Accused of".

By the way, now you are posting, have you in ANY way compensated (Even a FREE copy of AF) Gulliver for his actions of actually Talking Pelt in to any sort of release of PS3, since you will be BENEFITING from his actions, and his trusting you by giving you Pelt's contact details.  Gulliver did all the talking, and emailing with Pelt.  Have you compensated him for his efforts ?

Because going by Gilliver's posts here and on EAB, Pelt was *ABOUT* to release PFS to Aminet for the Benefit of the Amiga community, when Pelt announced that he had come to an Agreement with you for a release with AF, after Gulliver had given you the details ?  

Then all of a sudden, the "PENDING" release to aminet went quiet.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: whiteb on July 09, 2010, 01:13:02 PM
Quote from: AndreasM;569620
but thats not true. we never talk with the developer that he dont release PFS3 to Aminet. We talke only fopr a permission for the Amiga Future, too.


But that is why people thought you had, going by your previous actions.  Your ability to think that you *OWN* the copyright to anything you sell.

Thats why EAB hates you with such dispassion.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: AndreasM on July 09, 2010, 01:19:11 PM
Quote from: whiteb;569621
Your previous actions causing people to doubt your actions with PFS, And do not try to deny that you know nothing of that you are "Accused of".


WHICH previous actions???

that we attack back when anyone us attack?

Quote

By the way, now you are posting, have you in ANY way compensated (Even a FREE copy of AF) Gulliver for his actions of actually Talking Pelt in to any sort of release of PS3, since you will be BENEFITING from his actions, and his trusting you by giving you Pelt's contact details.  Gulliver did all the talking, and emailing with Pelt.  Have you compensated him for his efforts ?


Gilliver have get a copy of the mag.

Quote

Because going by Gilliver's posts here and on EAB, Pelt was *ABOUT* to release PFS to Aminet for the Benefit of the Amiga community, when Pelt announced that he had come to an Agreement with you for a release with AF, after Gulliver had given you the details ?  


We get from Gulliver the email adress and we ask for a permission to release the fullversion on the covercd and webpage, too.

Quote

Then all of a sudden, the "PENDING" release to aminet went quiet.


it was not our idea to release the aminet version after the amiga future release.

but anyway. its not important. the aminet release are not complete. that need time.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: AndreasM on July 09, 2010, 01:21:58 PM
Quote from: whiteb;569622
But that is why people thought you had, going by your previous actions.  Your ability to think that you *OWN* the copyright to anything you sell.


again which previous actions?

no. we own the right from your software. from nothing more.

Quote

Thats why EAB hates you with such dispassion.


the most user where hate us there have maked us trouble and we give the rouble back. nothing more.

example sell DVDs with our commercial software. or spread our software in the web.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: whiteb on July 09, 2010, 01:31:06 PM
Quote from: AndreasM;569624
again which previous actions?

no. we own the right from your software. from nothing more.


Now care to try that in English ?  I dont have any software.  Any software you supply on disk is Supplied by the COPYRIGHT holder.  Does not mean you now own the copyright because you supplied it on disk..

Anyway, do you still have IPF images of games that are banned in Germany, on your Website ? (Only slightly ILLEGAL).

Do peoplw on Amiga-News still believe your little tales about how hosting IPF images is illegal

Quote
Its Illegal, No need to talk about it

oblivious to the fact that you actually host IPF's ?

The thing is Andreas, People on EAB dont forget your past antics, of SELLING Kickstart images on Ebay.. and I believe they even quoted you as saying you owned THEM too.
So you can see, that why people (And me) are skeptical of your pleadings of no "Shady" deals with Pelt have been done.  If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... well Andreas, its certainly not an elephant.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: AndreasM on July 09, 2010, 01:38:29 PM
Quote from: whiteb;569626
Now care to try that in English ?  I dont have any software.  Any software you supply on disk is Supplied by the COPYRIGHT holder.  Does not mean you now own the copyright because you supplied it on disk..


Dont understand what you mean. From which software we say we have the copyright and dont really have the copyright???

Quote

Anyway, do you still have IPF images of games that are banned in Germany, on your Website ? (Only slightly ILLEGAL).


banned in germany? from where have you this joke?
IPF are not banned in germany and not illegal.

Quote

Do peoplw on Amiga-News still believe your little tales about how hosting IPF images is illegal


No, the hosting from IPF are not illegal.

Quote

oblivious to the fact that you actually host IPF's ?


Sure. We hosting from the Software where we have a licence or permission in ADF, IPF, DMS, LHA, ZIP... why not?

Quote

The thing is Andreas, People on EAB dont forget your past antics, of SELLING Kickstart images on Ebay.. and I believe they even quoted you as saying you owned THEM too.


We NEVER selling Kickstarts images on Ebay! please dont spread this lies!!!

Quote

So you can see, that why people (And me) are skeptical of your pleadings of no "Shady" deals with Pelt have been done.  If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... well Andreas, its certainly not an elephant.


yes, many lies... no examples... very nice :/
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: whiteb on July 09, 2010, 01:52:44 PM
Quote from: AndreasM;569628

banned in germany? from where have you this joke?
IPF are not banned in germany and not illegal.
 
Sword of Sodan (I think it was) was Banned in Germany, Yes Andreas, it is Illegal to host files, in Germany that were banned for ANY sort of distribution (IPF or otherwise).
 
You Either STILL DO, or you ONCE did. So you broke the law.
 
You have a history of trying to, or MAKING profit, from other people's hard work. In this case, Gulliver. Have you, or are you going to compensate him, as appreciation ? Given your aim was to use PFS as a tool to sell magazines, did you send him one ?
 
Quote
We NEVER selling Kickstarts images on Ebay! please dont spread this lies!!!
yes, many lies... no examples... very nice :/

Yeah unfortunately, Ebay do not keep listings for too long.
 
You sold compilation CD's of Amiga software, that included Kickstart images. -MODERATED-
 
Killa was right, -MODERATED- This link might explain the word i am looking for.
 
-MODERATED-
 
Thank You John Lithgow !
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: AndreasM on July 09, 2010, 02:04:27 PM
Quote from: whiteb;569631
Quote from: AndreasM;569628
Sword of Sodan (I think it was) was Banned in Germany, Yes Andreas, it is Illegal to host files, in Germany that were banned for ANY sort of distribution (IPF or otherwise).

Yes, Sword of Sodan. It was a Mistake and we delete it.
 
BUT you talk general about IPF and not for this game.
 
Quote
You Either STILL DO, or you ONCE did. So you broke the law.

yes, its was a mistake and i delete it. but which user/company make i with this any trouble or damage?
 
Quote
You have a history of trying to, or MAKING profit, from other people's hard work. In this case, Gulliver.

interesting ist that Gulliver dont have any problem with this.
 
and Amiga Future is a non profit porjekt. i dont make money with this.
 
Quote
Have you, or are you going to compensate him, as appreciation ? Given your aim was to use PFS as a tool to sell magazines, did you send him one ?

today 2:19 pm i write: Gilliver have get a copy of the mag.
 
Quote
Yeah unfortunately, Ebay do not keep listings for too long.

at the time where written this on EAB are the auction online. Everyone (when he would) can read the auction text.
 
and oh, come on. we release the CD 1996. last sunday end the auction with this cd. next week go the auction again online.
 
in our onlineshop you can order the 24h every day.
 
The User read the auction text
 
"With UAE Emulator and installed AMiga WOrkbench you can use the CD on PC, too."
 
and spread the lie that Workbench are on the CD...
 
Quote
You sold compilation CD's of Amiga software, that included Kickstart images. -MODERATED-

Never sold any time Kickstart Images.
 
But nice that you spread this lie again...
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: redrumloa on July 09, 2010, 02:46:58 PM
It is getting heated in here, but the TOS need to be followed. No personal attacks.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Zac67 on July 09, 2010, 06:29:08 PM
Sorry to interrupt but I think whiteb, you need to calm down a bit. We've all heard a couple of accusations - leave aside the Sword of Sodan stuff, no-one really cares about that too much, not even here in Germany. IMHO if you give them a note and it's removed it's AOK.

To the claim of selling Kickstart images on *bay or whereever: Andreas is actively denying, got any proof? Otherwise please keep your comments to yourself.

As to PFS3 release: what's wrong with AF putting this on a cover CD when it's still going to be released as OS? Obviously Michiel needs to put a bit of work into it before, and usually this takes a while, low priority as it is.

If nothing comes up by the end of the year then you can start shouting - but you won't ever know if it's Andreas' fault or just the author's making up his mind / not being able to find the time. In that case I'll be glad to donate my copy of PFS3 to you.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: AndreasM on July 09, 2010, 06:39:33 PM
Quote from: Zac67;569664

To the claim of selling Kickstart images on *bay or whereever: Andreas is actively denying, got any proof? Otherwise please keep your comments to yourself.


he mean this cd: http://www.apc-tcp.de/support/0033e.php

we sell this now 14 years. review in many mags, many, many users have this cd but nobody foundy any kickstart files on the cd.

i know my english are not really good. here are the original german text from the auction. can you translate it correct?

"Auf der CD befinden sich fast 1.000 Spiele für den Amiga.

Keine Raubkopien!

Mit einem Emulator (z.b. WinUAE) und inbstallierter Workbench läßt sich die CD auch auf PC benutzen.

Biete noch weitere Amiga CDs an.

nearly 1.000 Games für Amiga on this CD. no pirate Copies!!! With UAE Emulator and installed AMiga WOrkbench you can use the CD on PC, too.
"
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Zac67 on July 09, 2010, 07:15:31 PM
Quote from: AndreasM;569667
he mean this cd: http://www.apc-tcp.de/support/0033e.php

we sell this now 14 years. review in many mags, many, many users have this cd but nobody foundy any kickstart files on the cd.


From the contents listing I can't find any clue as to where there's any Kickstart/Workbench included.

Quote
i know my english are not really good. here are the original german text from the auction. can you translate it correct?

"Auf der CD befinden sich fast 1.000 Spiele für den Amiga.

Keine Raubkopien!

Mit einem Emulator (z.b. WinUAE) und inbstallierter Workbench läßt sich die CD auch auf PC benutzen.

Biete noch weitere Amiga CDs an.

nearly 1.000 Games für Amiga on this CD. no pirate Copies!!! With UAE Emulator and installed AMiga WOrkbench you can use the CD on PC, too.
"


Ain't too bad ;) He might be referring to "With UAE you can...", implying that it's also supplied on the CD - which it isn't.
Rephrasing it to something like "You can also use this CD on a PC equipped with Amiga Forever or UAE." might be less ambiguous but is not necessarily required IMO.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: motrucker on July 09, 2010, 08:56:13 PM
This would, indeed, be great. I have my fingers crossed waiting to see it list in aminet...
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: brownb2 on September 05, 2010, 01:21:41 PM
Quote from: motrucker;569690
This would, indeed, be great. I have my fingers crossed waiting to see it list in aminet...

Ditto. I'm not a big developer but I've sold one piece of software and then later given it away free, and I can tell you offering an old binary is quicker than putting out source code.

In my case when I've later gone to give away the source I found areas of code that needed significant commenting, formatting, documenting and changing (hard coded copyright etc). As I was in the area of reviewing source I may see small bugs I can fix or improvements and would add them.

In all the source release would often be improved and have an equivalent binary release to go with it.

IMHO the author of PFS3 should have full knowledge of what his options are before he releases the software as PD/open source, and whether somebody is still willing to give him money for it (???) - I'd do the same. I still have my fingers crossed and it is a shame if there are nefarious goings on, but I'd feel duped if I too realised later somebody was still willing to provide money for my software that I deemed commercial.

FWIW my software dropped to sales of about 5 a year (at £2 a pop) from 2-5 a month and at that point as the community for the software had shrunk significantly (Linux based Sharp Zaurus) the good will thing was to give back to a community that had supported me in other ways.

Incidentally all my software (http://www.silentdevelopment.co.uk/) these days is open source :)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: motrucker on September 08, 2010, 05:25:10 PM
Time marches on - no updates?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Gulliver on September 08, 2010, 08:39:36 PM
No news yet.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: brownb2 on September 19, 2010, 11:02:09 AM
Quote from: Gulliver;578396
No news yet.

So 7 weeks on... would it be prudent to attempt to get a rough timescale? I think it's only fair that if he's changed his mind or he has a timescale for an OS release that he mentions what that is, even if it means something like sometime early 2011...

[EDIT]Since Andreas has announced that he has updated the Amiga Future software downloads archive I've also asked where the PFS3 download was, perhaps unsurprisingly to be told he didn't know when the OS release was either (Andreas really I was inquiring when you were going to put the free original version in the downloads section since I assumed a download page update was important enough to be an announcement on amiga.org because you'd also be making free PFS3 too available for download :) ).[/EDIT]
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: ChaosLord on September 19, 2010, 01:24:55 PM
Quote from: Gulliver;578396
No news yet.
I am going to die before PFS3 gets released :(
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Flashlab on November 20, 2010, 12:16:01 PM
Any news on PFS3?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: wawrzon on November 20, 2010, 03:29:59 PM
alas no sign of it. seems as there was no official release and no opening sources and only shady af release none cares anymore and no interest is generated.
i bought the af to get a copy which seems to be a little of a rip off so i dont reccomend that much. the archive was just copied from some other free amiga cd, a serial added from who knows where then an update archive attached for which you have to provide an original cd rom. all in all, a little disappointing.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Tenacious on November 21, 2010, 04:37:47 AM
The whole situation is disappointing.  An anouncement is made, and then an information vacuum.

I have PFS 2 but would love upgrade.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: motrucker on November 21, 2010, 05:12:58 AM
All of the things I heard about Andreas were, in truth, second hand. However, It is beginning to look like there is some truth there. If not, were in the world is the PD version of this OS?
Something isn't right here....
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Dandy on November 26, 2010, 06:16:43 AM
Quote from: Gulliver;554260


Okay, so that you know who I contacted, and the results I got so far:

Tobias Abt - Picasso96 - Got a response, it was NO
Heinz Wrobel - Envoy3 - Got a response, it was NO
Chris Hames - PCTask - YES to binaries
Michiel Pelt - PFS3 - YES to binaries and source, but will have to wait till he solves some issues
Holger Kruze - Miami Deluxe - Awaiting answer. Still to early to declare unanswered
Thomas Frieden/Hyperion - Warp3D - No answer
Stefan Stuntz - MUI 3.8 - No answer
Stephen Fellner - RiVA - Yes, but doesnt have enough time to look into the matter and release it



Currently I'm investigating if there is enough interest for an OS4-native port of DynaCADD.
I asked the owner if there is a chance for this and Mr. Koruk's response was positive so far.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Gulliver on November 26, 2010, 07:01:05 AM
@Dandy

Well done! I hope you manage to get an OS4 build.

BTW, I should add to the list you quoted:
Holger Kruze - Miami Deluxe - No response
Bob Luneski - Termite TCP & GameSmith - YES only binaries
Sebastian Jedruszkiewicz - Frogger NG - No response
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Dandy on November 26, 2010, 07:10:21 AM
Quote from: motrucker;593353


All of the things I heard about Andreas were, in truth, second hand. However, It is beginning to look like there is some truth there. If not, were in the world is the PD version of this OS?
Something isn't right here....



What OS?
PFS 3 is not an Operating System - it's a file system!
PFS = Professional File System
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: motrucker on November 26, 2010, 04:49:24 PM
How brilliant of you to notice that slip...
Ok then, were the f*ck is the file system!
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Bamiga2002 on November 26, 2010, 06:04:50 PM
The upcoming PFS4 will surely be THE filesystem to use 'til mr. Pelt finalizes it for release :)

I want to believe!

EDIT: i'd even pay some cash for PFS4 if it gets released
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Golem!dk on November 26, 2010, 08:12:30 PM
@Bamiga2002

Confused much?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Gulliver on November 26, 2010, 08:39:42 PM
Re: PFS3
Friday, November 26, 2010 3:11 PM
From:
"Michiel Pelt"
To:
"Ignacio"

Thanks, but no thanks, I do not need help. Indeed it all does takes longer then anticipated.

On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Ignacio wrote:

Hello Michiel, It is been a while, and I was wondering if you had any news regarding the release of PFS3. How is this project going on? Do you need help?

Thank you for your time,
Best Regards,
Ignacio
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: mechy on November 26, 2010, 08:50:20 PM
Good job gulliver, i use SFS currently on everything i have ,but a free pfs would rock!
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: TheGoose on November 26, 2010, 09:34:49 PM
Please straighten me out about non FFS files systems. They are:

1. not in ROM (obvious)
2. must be installed / created on the harddrive they will rule.

That right?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Franko on November 26, 2010, 10:14:26 PM
Quote from: TheGoose;594539
Please straighten me out about non FFS files systems. They are:

1. not in ROM (obvious)
2. must be installed / created on the harddrive they will rule.

That right?


1. Correct
2. They can either be installed in the RDB of the HD or placed in the L directory
 :)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: wawrzon on November 27, 2010, 12:30:14 AM
it would be nice if pfs could be installed as kickstart module (it cant atm). btw sounds as if the author is a little irritated. wonder why. might be my oversensibilty though.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Gulliver on November 27, 2010, 01:17:05 AM
@wawrzon
Yes it would be cool to have it in kickstart.
And I got the same feeling from the author, lets hope it was just a bad day or missinterpretation. Anyway I hadnt email him since the end of may. Perhaps I was rude/demanding/or something else? Well, lets wait and see. :)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: stefcep2 on November 27, 2010, 03:30:06 AM
Quote from: Gulliver;594593
@wawrzon
Yes it would be cool to have it in kickstart.
And I got the same feeling from the author, lets hope it was just a bad day or missinterpretation. Anyway I hadnt email him since the end of may. Perhaps I was rude/demanding/or something else? Well, lets wait and see. :)


I wouldn't say asking where things were at after 6 months was rude/demanding.  Its probably "a something else"
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Bamiga2002 on November 27, 2010, 07:45:32 AM
Quote from: Golem!dk;594527
@Bamiga2002

Confused much?
Not confused, but hopeful. I'm a subscriber to AF anyway so i received the copy of PFS3 on the magazine cd. Mind you i already had the original pfs3 cd :).

PFS4 ftw!
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Golem!dk on November 27, 2010, 02:03:38 PM
Quote from: wawrzon;594589
it would be nice if pfs could be installed as kickstart module (it cant atm).

Not sure why you'd need that, just put it in the RDB.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Golem!dk on November 27, 2010, 02:07:43 PM
Quote from: Bamiga2002;594624
Not confused, but hopeful. I'm a subscriber to AF anyway so i received the copy of PFS3 on the magazine cd. Mind you i already had the original pfs3 cd :).

Well... I see nothing in this thread indicating PFS4 is anything but some planned update that never happened, who exactly are you expecting to develop PFS4?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: wawrzon on November 27, 2010, 03:14:08 PM
@golem!dk:
i prefer to have all that in my custom kick but it isnt so important or maybe even better to have it in rdb. pfs4 could happen if the sources would have been open. for instance i have formatted an pfs3 partition using normal format command. there were muforce hits and the task froze. nevertheless rhe partition seems to be formatted allright. checked that few times and im using it ever since with no issues. one could cure issues like thiese perhaps.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: TheGoose on November 27, 2010, 03:21:47 PM
Quote from: Franko;594547
1. Correct
2. They can either be installed in the RDB of the HD or placed in the L directory
 :)


Thanks Franko.

Those facts have always kept me away from SFS and the like. If the new ROMs project will work with traditional AOS 3.x it would be very cool to have this built-in.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Piru on November 27, 2010, 03:25:46 PM
Quote from: TheGoose;594713
Those facts have always kept me away from SFS and the like. If the new ROMs project will work with traditional AOS 3.x it would be very cool to have this built-in.

Why? Can you detail how having the FS in ROM is any different?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: TheGoose on November 27, 2010, 03:42:46 PM
FS on the hard drive just seems volatile to me. Simply, harddrives are corruptible. When it starts to go bad the whole thing just becomes a black hole. Well, I know I have been through that, power cut offs, harddrive is messed up.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Piru on November 27, 2010, 04:02:04 PM
Quote from: TheGoose;594723
FS on the hard drive just seems volatile to me. Simply, harddrives are corruptible. When it starts to go bad the whole thing just becomes a black hole. Well, I know I have been through that, power cut offs, harddrive is messed up.

How are the hard drives not corruptible with the FS in the ROM? I find this fear irrational. It makes no difference whether the FS is in the ROM or the drive.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Karlos on November 27, 2010, 04:05:00 PM
I think what he means is that if your filesystem is on disk and that part of the disk happens to go bad, it may complicate rescuing whatever else is on the disk.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Piru on November 27, 2010, 04:06:07 PM
Quote from: Karlos;594732
I think what he means is that if your filesystem is on disk and that part of the disk happens to go bad, it may complicate rescuing whatever else is on the disk.
Well, IMHO it doesn't. You need a separate rescue tool regardless. That's not related to the FS being located in ROM in any way.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Piru on November 27, 2010, 04:07:46 PM
Quote from: TheGoose;594723
Well, I know I have been through that, power cut offs, harddrive is messed up.
You're using some bad file systems then (such as FFS). Modern file systems don't get corrupted even if you pull the plug.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Franko on November 27, 2010, 04:08:34 PM
Quote from: TheGoose;594723
FS on the hard drive just seems volatile to me. Simply, harddrives are corruptible. When it starts to go bad the whole thing just becomes a black hole. Well, I know I have been through that, power cut offs, harddrive is messed up.


It won't help you having the FS in the rom if the hard drive goes kaput, you'll still have lost your data. The handy thing about having it stored on the RDB or in L is that it's easy to upgrade if a new version is released. :)

I've been using SFS for quite a number of years and haven't lost a single bit of data with it or had it crash or lock up on me... :)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: TheGoose on November 27, 2010, 04:33:47 PM
Quote from: Piru;594731
How are the hard drives not corruptible with the FS in the ROM? I find this fear irrational. It makes no difference whether the FS is in the ROM or the drive.
at

I didn't say that did I? They are always corruptible. It's more a question of what would be worse? A HD with a corruption that affected the FS (stored on the disk). If that happens how do you go about fixing it or just recovering anything off of it, with no FS available?

And maybe you can answer this, how often is a FS stored on disk accessed as the machine does regular CRUD operations? Or is it moved into memory?

I'm trying to tease out Piru, what is/are the disadvantages of a FS on disk. You can't think of any?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Golem!dk on November 27, 2010, 04:33:49 PM
Quote from: wawrzon;594706
pfs4 could happen if the sources would have been open.

In theory I suppose that could happen...
Quote
for instance i have formatted an pfs3 partition using normal format command. there were muforce hits and the task froze. nevertheless rhe partition seems to be formatted allright. checked that few times and im using it ever since with no issues. one could cure issues like thiese perhaps.

If it is indeed an issue, sure. Were you able to reproduce these hits on further testing?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Franko on November 27, 2010, 05:00:57 PM
Quote from: TheGoose;594742
And maybe you can answer this, how often is a FS stored on disk accessed as the machine does regular CRUD operations? Or is it moved into memory?/QUOTE]

Hi TheGoose... :)

If your HD fails so badly then whether the FS is in ROM or on the RDB your still going to need some other method of booting up to try and recover it eg:a floppy disk with appropriate recovery tools.

If it's a minor fail then it really make no difference whether the FS is in ROM or on the RDB. The only advantage I can see with having the FS on the RDB or in L is as I have said before, the ability to easily update it when/if a new version is released.

So the major disadvantage of having the FS in the ROM is the lack of ability to easy update it. Now I think about it all of the FS I use are on the RDB or in the L drawer (even FFS) as the versions I use are the latest one's ever released and aren't available on a Kickstart ROM.

Once the FS system is read at bootup as part of the bootup sequence it's basically stored in ram and so no further disk accessing is needed for the actual FS code while you use your Amiga.

Other than that it's up to you which way you think would suit yourself best... :)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: TheGoose on November 27, 2010, 05:06:14 PM
Ah, all answered above. Guess I'd feel more confident if my HD in my A3000 wasn't 20+ years old too....:lol:
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Piru on November 27, 2010, 07:28:35 PM
Quote from: TheGoose;594742
at

I didn't say that did I? They are always corruptible. It's more a question of what would be worse? A HD with a corruption that affected the FS (stored on the disk). If that happens how do you go about fixing it or just recovering anything off of it, with no FS available?
Since the FS rarely can fix itself it's totally irrelevant whether the FS is on ROM or HDD. You need to use an external tool to fix the FS.

If your RDB gets corrupted, you have the same issue regardless if the FS is in RDB or ROM: You lose the partitioning information.

Quote
And maybe you can answer this, how often is a FS stored on disk accessed as the machine does regular CRUD operations?
Never.
Quote
Or is it moved into memory?
Yes. The filesystem is regular executable stored to LSEG blocks. It's loaded by the device and added to the filesystem.resource (the dostype is mapped to the specific filesystem seglist). From the OS point of view it makes no difference at all whether the FS is in the ROM or loaded from the RDB.

Quote
what is/are the disadvantages of a FS on disk. You can't think of any?
I can't.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Gulliver on November 27, 2010, 08:37:18 PM
BTW, I wanted PFS3 in rom thinking on the possibility of booting from a PF3 floppy.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: TheGoose on November 27, 2010, 09:27:58 PM
Quote from: Gulliver;594783
BTW, I wanted PFS3 in rom thinking on the possibility of booting from a PF3 floppy.


Hmm, does a PFS formatted floppy hold anymore than 880K?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Piru on November 27, 2010, 10:34:43 PM
Quote from: TheGoose;594808
does a PFS formatted floppy hold anymore than 880K?

No
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: nicholas on November 27, 2010, 10:37:43 PM
Quote from: Piru;594835
No


Here's an hypothetical question for you Piru.

If PFS was released under a BSD/MIT/APL like licence and assuming it's all written in C, what would be the odds that we'd see it in a future release of MorphOS?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Piru on November 27, 2010, 10:39:19 PM
Quote from: nicholas;594837
Here's an hypothetical question for you Piru.

If PFS was released under a BSD/MIT/APL like licence and assuming it's all written in C, what would be the odds that we'd see it in a future release of MorphOS?

I'd be 100% certain. I'd port it myself.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: nicholas on November 27, 2010, 10:43:23 PM
Quote from: Piru;594838
I'd be 100% certain. I'd port it myself.


Phwoar, that's what I like to hear! :)

Here's hoping for one of those licences!
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: kolla on November 28, 2010, 12:52:40 AM
Why not use a well established filesystem that support extensions, and create extension to take care of amiga filesystem protection bits? There's already ext3 filesystem support in MorphOS, and ext3 supports arbitrary attributes. I can imagine XFS also does, and other filesystems as well.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: nicholas on November 28, 2010, 01:08:46 AM
Quote from: kolla;594878
Why not use a well established filesystem that support extensions, and create extension to take care of amiga filesystem protection bits? There's already ext3 filesystem support in MorphOS, and ext3 supports arbitrary attributes. I can imagine XFS also does, and other filesystems as well.


I was having this very same conversation just yesterday with Karlos.

I suggested UFS2 due to it's BSD licence too, or even the very sexy OpenBFS from Haiku.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: wawrzon on November 28, 2010, 01:51:07 AM
@golem!dk
Quote
Were you able to reproduce these hits on further testing?

sure. otherwise i wouldnt brag about it.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: yakumo9275 on November 28, 2010, 06:02:04 PM
ufs2 is a bit of a kludge and softupdate support is a pain in the ass. xfs requires a pretty heavy vfs layer and support. openbfs has know issues in order to be compatabile with beos (16bit runs). Personally I love and use JFS.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: olsen on November 28, 2010, 07:38:47 PM
Quote from: nicholas;594883
I was having this very same conversation just yesterday with Karlos.

I suggested UFS2 due to it's BSD licence too, or even the very sexy OpenBFS from Haiku.


The origins of BFS and SFS are not that different. The author of BFS wrote a book on his work, which served as more than inspiration for writing SFS. You can use SFS today, but OpenBFS would still have to be ported ;)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: olsen on November 28, 2010, 07:42:39 PM
Quote from: yakumo9275;595025
ufs2 is a bit of a kludge and softupdate support is a pain in the ass. xfs requires a pretty heavy vfs layer and support. openbfs has know issues in order to be compatabile with beos (16bit runs). Personally I love and use JFS.


XFS also is a certified big iron file system. It's not just the vfs layer, XFS also eats memory like popcorn. If you really want to do something else with your desktop computer while it's merely tending to your files, you might want to choose a different kind of file system.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: ChaosLord on November 28, 2010, 11:04:00 PM
Olsen FTW!
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Bamiga2002 on November 29, 2010, 10:16:44 AM
Quote from: Golem!dk;594684
Well... I see nothing in this thread indicating PFS4 is anything but some planned update that never happened, who exactly are you expecting to develop PFS4?
I'm not expecting, but hoping that mr. Pelt would develop it.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: wawrzon on November 29, 2010, 05:30:01 PM
@bamiga: given it was impossible to contact him all these years to get a licence, and that he has not found a time to to open the sources since half a year, i dont know on what you are basing your hopes. in general this community always tends to hope for too much imo.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: delshay on November 30, 2010, 02:02:56 AM
PFS works on my high density floppy drive,if i remember correctly it formats at 1.76Mb,its also bootable. i will have to check again to comfirm.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Cosmos on November 30, 2010, 05:16:20 AM
We are talking on EAB about to give some money to Michiel for getting the source of PFS3 !

We have 70 euros in the piggybank for Gulliver :
Cosmos = 40 euros
mfilos = 30 euros


Please, be generous...

We must reach about 600 euros, that's a lot of money : so, Michiel will be happy !
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Gulliver on November 30, 2010, 05:52:21 AM
@Cosmos
Whilst I see your point in raising money for Michiel in apreciation for PFS3, I really believe it is not necessary. As Michiel pointed out on several ocassions it is a matter of time. I know money doesnt hurt, but probably it wont change the situation.

It is your money, you can do whatever you want with it, but maybe I can suggest you to do other fruitfull things with it for our community. There are many possibilities that come to my mind, for example, donating them for the  Aros-m68k bounty, creating a bounty for a modern opensource 68k browser, create a bounty to persuade an Amiga software author to release his software and opensource it (eg.: IBrowse, FroggerNG, etc), a bounty for a port of a very cool game, for a skype client, etc...

Anyway, if you are really into giving money to Michiel, then it is your call :)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: wawrzon on November 30, 2010, 05:20:01 PM
i will not contribute as long as there is no confirmed feedback form author accepting a bounty. simple as that.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Cosmos on November 30, 2010, 05:52:24 PM
You have only to write a number here...

When reach 600 or 700 euros, we will give the money each of us to Michiel or to Gulliver...
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Gulliver on November 30, 2010, 07:39:43 PM
Quote from: Cosmos;595596
You have only to write a number here...

When reach 600 or 700 euros, we will give the money each of us to Michiel or to Gulliver...

No, please, not to me. If you reach your own goals, I will then ask Michiel , and if he is okay with it, and I will give you his email address, so you may contact him directly. I am sorry but I dont want to be involved in any money issue. :)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Cosmos on December 01, 2010, 04:14:52 AM
As you want !
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: wawrzon on December 01, 2010, 05:46:12 AM
better ask him in advance, or what do you want with the money, if he doesnt even want it?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Cosmos on December 01, 2010, 11:12:58 AM
Cosmos = 40 €
mfilos = 30 €
Batteman = 30 €
Hivernaal = 15 €


Thanks you so much dudes !!
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: magnetic on December 01, 2010, 11:20:54 AM
Piru

PS3 native morphos would rock!
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Cosmos on December 01, 2010, 12:52:24 PM
Cosmos = 40 €
mfilos = 30 €
Batteman = 30 €
Hivernaal = 15 €
Raf = 30 €


Thanks you so much, dudes !!


We must reach about 600 € !!!
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Retrofan on December 13, 2010, 07:10:12 PM
Ok, I haven't read all the post but the first. In that the autor says that as he hasn't an Amiga to try, he can't give the sources.
 
Woudn't it be a better idea instead of giving money just to lend him an Amiga?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Retro_71 on January 10, 2011, 12:51:36 AM
It been awhile, how is PFS3 freeware going along? or like some have said it won't happen anymore since it was published in a certain mag??
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: brownb2 on January 23, 2011, 08:46:01 AM
Quote from: Retro_71;605251
It been awhile, how is PFS3 freeware going along? or like some have said it won't happen anymore since it was published in a certain mag??

Well now we're into the new year it looks like open source PFS 3 was a learning experience. I guess owning an Amiga can still teach us something new - just another Amiga hope dashed. I suppose it could be worse at least it's not Duke Nukem Forever!
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Cammy on January 23, 2011, 09:10:08 AM
Or Putty Squad... our own Duke Nukem Forever
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: brownb2 on January 23, 2011, 10:13:59 AM
TFX was my holy grail/will never be published title - I was so glad when it came out but gutted I didn't have a CD rom so I ordered the floppy disk version from CU Amiga. I've been constantly paranoid about the disks failing I keep them sealed, heavily padded and as close to a vaccum as I can get (my loft)! Shame I've never really got into the game much, I was given a new Pentium 2 400mhz shortly after and got engrossed in Mechcommander.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: freqmax on April 20, 2011, 05:53:37 AM
Any status update on the availability on PFS3 ..?

Also the paper documentation for PFS4 could serve as a base to code a new filesystem from scratch.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: kolla on April 20, 2011, 06:13:20 AM
Huh, it's on aminet already, sources and all:

http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/PFS3
http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/PFS3src
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Piru on April 20, 2011, 09:47:46 AM
Quote from: freqmax;632544
Also the paper documentation for PFS4 could serve as a base to code a new filesystem from scratch.

Huh what?
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: freqmax on April 20, 2011, 11:19:01 AM
PFS4 doesn't exist as code. Only a collection of papers and ideas.
Thus to become a reality, there needs to be some thought and coding.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Piru on April 20, 2011, 11:29:47 AM
Quote from: freqmax;632565
PFS4 doesn't exist as code. Only a collection of papers and ideas.
I've never even heard about PFS4. Can you point to any reference to these papers and/or ideas?

If you have any ideas post them here: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=532591&atid=2163218
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: olsen on April 20, 2011, 12:11:07 PM
Quote from: Piru;632567
I've never even heard about PFS4. Can you point to any reference to these papers and/or ideas?

If you have any ideas post them here: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=532591&atid=2163218


Now this is not specific to PFS, but a solid book on file system design and implementation I found very helpful is Dominic Giampaolo's "Practical file system design with the Be file system" (http://www.letterp.com/~dbg/practical-file-system-design.pdf). Makes for a very good reference, and taught me a lesson in what not to implement. If it weren't for the book, we'd have journaling support in FFS today.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Gulliver on April 20, 2011, 01:10:20 PM
Quote from: Piru;632567
I've never even heard about PFS4. Can you point to any reference to these papers and/or ideas?

If you have any ideas post them here: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=532591&atid=2163218

Hi, the following email was sent to me by Michiel on the 10th May 2010, regarding PFS4

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:
"Michiel Pelt"
Add sender to Contacts
To:
"Ignacio"
> On the other hand, many people are intrigued by your PFS4. Do you have at least a draft of what was supposed to feature? It will be interesting to have any information regarding this filesystem.

PFS3 was a very modern and advanced filesystem for its time, not only
looking at the Amiga market, but at filesystems in general. Over the
years many of the ideas found in PFS3 have been incorporated in other
filesystems. PFS3 was one of the first to be atomic, now more have
this feature. Rollover files still seem to be unique to PFS3.

PFS3 was based on the original shareware PFS which was designed as a
floppy filesystem. A lot of changes have been made to make PFS work on
ever larger harddisks and the result was PFS3 which works pretty well.
The most recent Linux filesystems like Reiser4 surpass it though, but
there is one area where PFS3 remains king: the floppy or other
relatively small removable disks like ZIP, what it was originally
designed to work on.

PFS4 is a new design from the ground up. It takes the good things from
PFS3 and adds new ideas inspired by scientific papers and open source
filesystems like Reiser. Most notable improvements compared to PFS3
are
- B+ tree for directory structure which improves scalability and
handling of large directories.
- Redesign of the atomic commit feature.
- Automatic grouping of small files which results in both more
storagespace and better performance.
- Builtin automatic defragmentation and improved fragmentation prevention.

Note that PFS4 only exists on paper.

Best regards,

Michiel Pelt
________________________________________________________________
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: freqmax on April 20, 2011, 02:10:11 PM
Piru, Here's the important section:

Quote from: Gulliver;632588
Note that PFS4 only exists on paper.


Gulliver, Now the 10 000 dollar question is.. Will he scan those papers? ;)
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: Piru on April 20, 2011, 02:12:43 PM
That'd mean a complete rewrite of the current code base. I don't think this falls into PFS3 scope.

Also, something "existing on paper" doesn't necessarily mean there's anything on physical paper, mind you. It could be just some thought processes and perhaps a text file with notes of the desired features.
Title: Re: PFS3 is soon to become free and opensource
Post by: XDelusion on April 20, 2011, 11:35:09 PM
Next question...

Now that it is installed on MorphOS, how do I use it? I plugged in my Amiga CF card via a CF card reader, and PFS's Hard Drive software does not see the drive. Likewise MorphOS's hard drive software does not present PFS as an option.

I made a custom Boot disk for my Amiga. I can set up my 4Gb CF card, but not my 8Gb. It will partition the card fine, but I can only format the first couple of partitions without error, after that it, my Amiga will insist that the hard drive is not plugged in correctly when I want to format the last two partitions.