Amiga.org
Amiga.org specific forums => Amiga.org Discussion and Site Feedback => Topic started by: Wayne on June 08, 2009, 06:29:25 PM
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For my next magic trick ladies and gents, I invite the audience to participate in what happens.
Now that @ao e-mail addresses are fixed and the bug list is low, I'm thinking about the next great whathaveyou to build and would love your input, by way of vote (or comment).
Which of the above would you prefer to see next?
Wayne
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I like to see some kind of aminet 2.0.
What I mean is that ease of use should be introduced in aminet.
I mean assume myself as a guy just got his OS4. Normally getting proper apps via aminet takes lots of time, needs a Guide and even though you're not sure if it's all. So my idea - maybe not a new aminet storage, just a smart browsing interface. ANd having all apps proper gives the OS4 Amiga the strength, those points to show one's pal "I got all I need"
This is important!
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I'd again like to express my interest in a bounties system. Failing that, my second choice is for a User Group registry - sort of like an up-to-date version of GAUHPIL. Then I'll know where to visit when I travel!
I remember when the old file galleries were closed down due to disuse and I don't really know what benefit another file repository would have. And music mods I think are well covered by Aminet, Exotica, and the like.
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I voted other and had in mind a SVN hosting service for Amiga-related closed-source programs that cannot be hosted on any of the open-source hosting services such as Google Code or SourceForge.net .
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What I'd like to see is a knowledge base. There are many threads where people ask for help in solving a problem but it can be time consuming looking through all of them. If there was a way to condense the information into a Problem: - Solution: system, it would be an incredible resource.
It is probably not feasible for admins to do this alone but users could be reminded to submit complete solutions to the knowledge base once the problem was solved. Also, encourage/remind people to actually post solutions instead of posting, "never mind, I solved the problem, bye and thanks."
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What I'd like to see is a knowledge base. There are many threads where people ask for help in solving a problem but it can be time consuming looking through all of them. If there was a way to condense the information into a Problem: - Solution: system, it would be an incredible resource.
You mean, like Amigawiki.com?
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Expand into retro gaming (Amiga&C64) it is sure to bring in new visitors. :afro:
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I'll second the request for the knowledge base, too.
I know how that is probably my single favorite thing about Microsoft's OS entries. If I run into a bug, glitch, error or question, throwing " site:support.microsoft.com" into Google will almost always take me directly to my answer.
Having a similar resource for Amiga would be a huge help. I think Amigawiki maybe tries to do this, but somehow fails in execution. (I don't think Wiki is really the best method for such a resource.)
I'd picture it more as being controlled by a group of several moderators who review recommended threads. Once they determine a thread is suitable, a copy is cleaned up and properly tagged for appropriate systems and OS revisions, then permanently numbered (for easy reference) and added to a read-only section with advanced search options, based on those tags and the content.
Then, the next time someone asks why their A1200 2.5 IDE hard drive keeps corrupting data, we can just say "Did you check kb " and they can read all about Max Transfer. ;)
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You mean, like Amigawiki.com?
I had never visited Amigawiki but had a quick look. It's similar to what I proposed but I'm thinking that a lot of threads on amiga.org are about people with specific problems. If the problems and solutions could be massaged into a format that could be searchable by keyword and organized it would be incredible. Searching through threads is helpful but tedious. Btw, this is a problem in general with searching for anything on the web. One major reason to visit a site like amiga.org is for help with specific problems ( knowledge ) from the user ( base ) since so many companies and accompanying resources are gone.
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Problem: My A4000 doesn't boot with my new CSPPC.
Keywords: A4000, CSPPC, boot, etc
Attempted solutions:
1. reseat ppc,
2. jumpers
3. check power supply
4. etc
Successful resolution: warmed up a4000 in microwave and sang campfire songs.
FAKE Helpful links FAKE:
http://know.amiga.org/a4000_faq.html
http://know.amiga.org/csppc_faq.html
http://know.amiga.org/scsi_faq.html
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There are resources on the web with general troubleshooting information and articles and threads but none of it is organized or consolidated in any meaningful way. Maybe there could be a reminder to submit information to the knowlege base when people post to threads? I hope this helps clarify.
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I'll second the request for the knowledge base, too.
A knowledge base is a good idea, but a little bit on the "dream on" side of reality unless you're talking about a wiki-style arrangement.
- There's no one person, or even a group left in the community that has that much knowledge about the platform.
- Even if there were, what's the incentive to put in the MASSIVE amounts of work? Especially in light of the fact that he/she would be getting nothing out of it, financially or otherwise.
- Microsoft and Apple have thousands of REAL, full-time employees whose job it is to manage and update such information.
Seriously. Like *all* community projects these days, everything is done on a "volunteer / because I feel like it" basis. This site for example is run solely because I enjoy the coding, and because -- thanks to the great subscribers and donations -- it pays for itself every month.
Had we stayed with Xoops, I have no doubt I would have lost interest and closed the site in April / May.
Back to the subject though, seriously, I think Amigawiki is a great idea and the way to go to establish what you want (I couldn't think of any way to do it better). It simply depends on the community to help build it by sharing all the little bits that each of us know. I just don't get the impression that anyone in the community is interested.
Wayne
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A knowledge base is a good idea, but a little bit on the "dream on" side of reality unless you're talking about a wiki-style arrangement.
I don't necessarily think so. I'm not sure I've ever bought into using a Wiki as a serious reference tool. Sure, Wikipedia is great for looking up cultural references. But, even with the large ratio of dedicated users vs the trolls, they have their share of problems. And in a population like Amiga where the trolls, shills, and criminally insane are nearly as common as the legitimate users, I can't really see a useful Wiki emerging and not getting continually trashed.
As for getting people to help pitch in, yes, it would take a team of Knowledge Base Builders, much like the forums need a team of Forum Moderators. Personally, while I have less than no interest in reprimanding people for slinging personal insults or pirate links around the Forums, I'd volunteer to review technical threads, clean, tag, and archive them... There may be some others who feel the same. Or, maybe there isn't. Who knows? It IS just a request for discussion, at this time. ;)
Anyhow, you know it as well as I do... A great wealth of information is buried in the forums of this site. The problem is, it's buried in this site. If those posts could be recognized by users and flagged, it wouldn't take a prohibitive effort for a volunteer knowledge base team to copy, clean, tag and post the information into a repository.
We already have file repositories, music repositories, and user registers. If we're talking about building something new, why not try something actually NEW? A knowledge base would be some really slow progress. Volunteers can't (and shouldn't) pitch in a lot of time... But small amounts of effort collected over time can add up to large amounts of progress.
We have a lot of users here who have posted a lot of great technical information. It all feels kind of wasted, though, because it's all trapped in forum posts and not easily findable, archive-able, or linkable.
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A file repository for hard to find drivers/manuals/patches would be nice. Also like the idea of the FAQ/type pages for reference before asking for help in the forum.
Great work so far though Wayne. Thanks,.
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A file repository for hard to find drivers/manuals/patches would be nice. Also like the idea of the FAQ/type pages for reference before asking for help in the forum.
Great work so far though Wayne. Thanks,.
I also voted for a file repository, but like many of the other ideas put forward by other members.
I would not expect, or want a duplication of Aminet, but it would be nice to have some of the files relevant to forum discussions available for a quick download, plus many of the newest next generation applications, games and patches for BOTH AmigaOS4.1 and MorphOS2.2 (as well as 68k and AROS, I should have mentioned).
I know it is hard to choose which files should be here and which should be left out, but I think that the more difficult ones to find, plus the most popular ones that are perhaps only available on other sites that have limited bandwidth, should be considered and will be a great service to the community. Get a moderator to do the choosing, or open a poll to vote on each file after suggestions are solicited from the members here. After the initial group of files, do another poll each 3 to 6 months to add more recent files and those that members think of in the meantime.
Just an idea that I have not thought through for a long time, so faults in it may be thought of, or improvements to the idea to make it better.
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I miss the faces of amiga.org link
Maybe the site could make it easy for users to add a picture of themselves. It's nice to see who you're talking to :)
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a file repository would be awesomeful.
Theres already enough .MOD stuff out there, and keeping track of all of it is probably a pain!
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I miss the faces of amiga.org link
Maybe the site could make it easy for users to add a picture of themselves. It's nice to see who you're talking to :)
I can add categories for user photos to the album, but didn't really want to take away from the Faces page creator.
Also, I just put up a block, but the only URL I have doesn't work;
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/christopher.sheffield/facesofamigaorg/
Same with the Web Chat interface. Last I have is;
http://irc.cyberfingers.com/cgiirc/irc.cgi
What's the current one?
Wayne
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For my next magic trick ladies and gents, I invite the audience to participate in what happens.
Now that @ao e-mail addresses are fixed and the bug list is low, I'm thinking about the next great whathaveyou to build and would love your input, by way of vote (or comment).
Which of the above would you prefer to see next?
Wayne
I like the idea for a mods repository, especially if you could play and listen to them while browsing Amiga.org.
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Like the idea of a knowlegebase. That's what alot of the forum is used for already.
In a few months, I might have my collection of AmigaWorld and Amazing Computing mags in a readily accessible location again, and could put aside a couple hours now and then to search through these old sources for tips and tricks of the time, too. Sounds like fun... :)
Don't see much point in Yet Another File Repository.
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I voted for user registry. In my opinion, it would be very helpful, esp. when trading and troubleshooting.
Aminet still works, and I presume amiwrz are out of question. But there might be some use in storing other files beside photos. for eg. config files, temporary source code files,..
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plus many of the newest next generation applications, games and patches for BOTH AmigaOS4.1 and MorphOS2.2
AmigaOS 4 has OS4Depot.
MorphOS has MorphOS Files.
Another archive site would not hurt but will it add something new?
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+1 for the knowledge base. I would like to see a kind of intelligent knowledge base which can take user input into account when presenting its answer. Take the old chestnut of "how do I copy files from my PC to my Amiga?". The answer will depend very much on the user's hardware configuration. So the knowledge base document could contain a series of tick-boxes, such as:
- My Amiga has Workbench 1.3
- My Amiga has Workbench 2.04
- My Amiga has Workbench 3.0+
- My Amiga has a floppy drive
- My Amiga has a hard drive
- My Amiga has a CD-ROM drive
- My PC has a floppy drive
- My PC has a CD-Writer
- My Amiga has a network card
etc. The knowledge base then presents an answer which is appropriate for the user's hardware (e.g. burning to CD if the user's PC has a burner and Amiga has a CD-ROM, or using floppies if both machines have floppy drives and the Amiga is able to read from MS-DOS disks etc. Clearly some more desirable answers would take priority over others if more than one is applicable.)
I know that this is probably asking a lot if there is no existing back-end to support this type of knowledge base. I'm just making the suggestion in case there is. And I would be prepared to write some documents. The idea of writing it once and then being able to link to the article whenever somebody else asks the question is very appealing.
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- My Amiga has Workbench 1.3
- My Amiga has Workbench 2.04
- My Amiga has Workbench 3.0+
- My Amiga has a floppy drive
- My Amiga has a hard drive
- My Amiga has a CD-ROM drive
- My PC has a floppy drive
- My PC has a CD-Writer
- My Amiga has a network card
Don't stop there start coding...
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Don't stop there start coding...
Actually I am thinking about it. Shouldn't be too hard to knock up the code. It's just a case of integrating it with a.org.
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It depends what would be the purpose of the files repository. If it would be just an archive of the most used and needed sw, such as drivers, guides and so on, I'm all for it. If it would be meant as an alternative to Aminet, then I'd disagree. For OS4 software we already have Aminet and OS4depot, and I always try to avoid that archives in one repository aren't available in the other one. I always upload my software on both, and from time to time I upload missing OS4 stuff to Aminet with permission from the authors, comparing file per file and uploading what's missing. All this is a lot of work, and another repository would mean even more work. From an user point of view, it would mean that he'd have to search in different repositories to be sure that a software is, or isn't, available. What I have always liked of Aminet is that it has always hosted most, if not all the existing freeware/shareware stuff available for Amiga.
If the problem with Aminet is its UI, why not just develop an alternative UI for it, with the collaboration of its maintainers?
Varthall
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I like the idea for a mods repository, especially if you could play and listen to them while browsing Amiga.org.
http://www.modland.com ?
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You can join a single table multiple times in a query by using an alias name for each invocation of the join. However, building up large queries with a lot of joins and dependencies is not often a good idea, especially where these are generated from code. It's possible to end up generating queries that can never actually complete if you aren't careful.
Could you give me an example of a situation where this might happen? Surely the worst case scenario is that no records are returned?
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almost but you need to join the C table.
Oh yes... it would have taken me a while to spot that when it didn't work ;)
You may have only heard of joins but you are already using them
AND B.solution_id = A.solution_id
is a join (implicit)
Ahh ok. I learned how to do this from a guy where I used to work when I was thrown in a the deep end developing an asset tracking and management app in PHP/MySQL. He referred to them as linked tables not joins, though if I switched my brain on I probably could have spotted the similarity between the words "link" and "join" ;)
I recommend some reading up a bit of sql and database design. will save time later on not making mistakes early on in your schema.
I usually just try it and see what happens then read if I need to. Can I just do that please? :D
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Ok, let's look at this from a pros/cons perspective;
Files repository
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Pros
- Tailored right, there's plenty of niche that could be filled
- It would provide a good service to the community, but only if it offered something special.
Cons
- It's been done, repeatedly, the best example of which is Aminet
- If it took off, and that's about a 5% chance, it would require massive amounts of space and bandwidth to accommodate the community
- It would ABSOLUTELY require at least one dedicated volunteer to staff, populate, and maintain the collection.
- Chances are equal that the massive amount of work to build it would amount to very little use, considering the number of actual users in the dwindling community.
- Virus controls - how?
International User Group Registry (not user registry)
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Pros
- An updated one doesn't currently exist to the best of my knowledge.
- I have a good idea already for the db schema needed, thanks to Tekmage (UGN)
- It might help people reconnect on a local level or find people when traveling.
Cons
- The Internet has pretty much killed almost all local user groups. The few that remain are fairly more "dinner groups" than user groups.
- What information comes from local groups which cannot be found globally?
- I would estimate less than 50 physical user groups worldwide in 2009.
- Social Groups already exist here and could be used by any user groups that want them in order to converse and manage their business.
Music Mod Repository
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Pros
- Gets people back into the Web site
- Could be interesting and/or fun
Cons
- Again, if successful would need lots of space and bandwidth
- Several good examples already exist on the net
- it would require a dedicated volunteer to staff, stock, and maintain
- Formats would have to be firmly decided.
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if you wanted users to choose from some mods, and have some embedded player on the site or something, I would be happy to offer you direct mysql access to my modland database.
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motorollin, Karlos, Buzz,
Mostly because I wanted to see if vB worked correctly, the off-topic conversation re: MySQL programming has been moved here;
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=47964
Sorry for any inconvenience, but it's cool that vB works to let mods split conversations.
Guess we really need a "Web Development" forum eh?
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I really wanted to help out the site. I really like vBulletin. I have an idea that is not too complicated that has not been mentioned yet. It would be kewl.
But the last time I tried to help the site, I wrote several messages explaining why it was a good idea and someone voted down my reputation. I have never received any positive reputation. I have received 100% negative reputation in direct correlation to how many messages I write. This has trained me through negative feedback to stop trying to help the site. It also trained me to stop inviting people onto the site, to stop reporting bugs and to reduce my message writing by 90%. The more I try to help out the site the worse my rep gets. That is why I am not explaining my nice idea. Goodbye.
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@Wayne
NP, thanks for moving the OT stuff. I got carried away ;)
Edit - you missed a couple of posts BTW.
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I really wanted to help out the site. I really like vBulletin. I have an idea that is not too complicated that has not been mentioned yet. It would be kewl.
But the last time I tried to help the site, I wrote several messages explaining why it was a good idea and someone voted down my reputation. I have never received any positive reputation. I have received 100% negative reputation in direct correlation to how many messages I write. This has trained me through negative feedback to stop trying to help the site. It also trained me to stop inviting people onto the site, to stop reporting bugs and to reduce my message writing by 90%. The more I try to help out the site the worse my rep gets. That is why I am not explaining my nice idea. Goodbye.
So... lemme understand...
Back when the site was still under initial rollout construction, one person gave you a negative rep because you kept harping on the "I liked the old Amiga.org better" and now, rather than trying to gain positive reputation, you're "taking your ball and going home"???
For the record, you've only received one single rep since the rollover to vB, out of several dozen posts. Please don't tell me that one single person's disagreement with you over a post in the "hate! hate! hate! thread was enough for you to quit the site. I didn't think you were the "sensitive type".
Wayne
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I voted other and had in mind a SVN hosting service for Amiga-related closed-source programs that cannot be hosted on any of the open-source hosting services such as Google Code or SourceForge.net .
Thats a good idea, even if it means such code will no longer be closed ;) well, with user accounts/groups, web access, and user rights, it would be fine. Maybe we can expand a svn hosting to a more helpful mix between sourceforge.net and koders.com for Amigans? :)
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AmigaOS 4 has OS4Depot.
MorphOS has MorphOS Files.
Another archive site would not hurt but will it add something new?
totally agree, why should we need another repository?
also the "new" Aminet interface is good (do you remember the old?), may it can be improved, but imo is nice as-is.
However, @Wayne: feel free to add a wrapper/bridge to Aminet here if you feel it can be a good new interface to files, it should be easy than creating a new repository, hmm.. what about a bridge to all our currently available repositories here on amiga.org (Aminet, os4depot, MOS Files, AROS, etc..)? eg: one looks for mplayer and it returns the files available for all platforms, or per platform, or even files available from no-repositories private/user-websites...
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Wayne,
You have my vote for a Music MOD Repo.
Though they exist elsewhere, it sure would be great to get the best of both worlds and a one stop site visit for me.. not only a great forum site, but also cure my crave for mod files. I would try to help in some way if you needed help in maintenance.
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Wayne,
Many thanks for your hard work keeping the site going and making the new site .
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So... lemme understand...
... one person gave you a negative rep because you kept harping on the "I liked the old Amiga.org better"
I never said any such thing.
and now, rather than trying to gain positive reputation,
I don't go to forums to panhandle for rep points.
I go to forums to:
1. Help people solve problems.
2. Have people help me solve problems.
3. Have fun.
Playing reputation games like immature 3rd graders is not on my list.
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I don't go to forums to panhandle for rep points.
...
Playing reputation games like immature 3rd graders is not on my list.
Erm, so why complain about getting the neg rep?
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I would like an international users register AND a file repository...
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I never said any such thing.
I stand corrected, but what I meant to say was that you were in the "hate, hate, hate" thread going on about the font in the header
(which is one of the more pointless arguments this site has ever had)
I don't go to forums to panhandle for rep points.
I go to forums to:
1. Help people solve problems.
2. Have people help me solve problems.
3. Have fun.
Playing reputation games like immature 3rd graders is not on my list.
But here's what I don't think you get.
You just came to THIS forum/thread to tell us all how you have this killer idea but refuse to share it because you're mad someone gave you a negative rep on one single post.
I sincerely want to hear your idea, as I'm always looking for new ways to help the community, but I really don't understand your logic on this one.
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Could any of the persons who asked for creating a file repository please tell me what's wrong with Aminet (or os4depot, AROS archives...)?
That's a honest question, I simply don't get it. All I understand so far is "we're not happy with Aminet" - but the question is: why?
And, if there's something about Aminet that irritates you, wouldn't it make more sense to tell the Aminet team about it - instead of trying to set up a replacement?
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Nothing wrong with Aminet but I don't see anything wrong with a new file repository, maybe based on requests from amiga.org users...
Could even be a place where users could spec out an app they need and it is made to order...
Back when we had dialup BBSs, we all stored the same files for download and the duplication didn't diminish the worth of a BBS compared to others...
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Could any of the persons who asked for creating a file repository please tell me what's wrong with Aminet (or os4depot, AROS archives...)?
That's a honest question, I simply don't get it. All I understand so far is "we're not happy with Aminet" - but the question is: why?
And, if there's something about Aminet that irritates you, wouldn't it make more sense to tell the Aminet team about it - instead of trying to set up a replacement?
For the record, I have nothing either for, or against the Aminet. I've used it for years.
I'm just looking for ways to make THIS site better for the community. File repository, or mods repository, or.... were just the three easiest choices for something database driven that we could potentially add without too much trouble.
There's no intent to usurp anyone, but then again, I doubt anyone griped too much when the other file repositories were built to supplant Aminet.
Wayne
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I dont want another Aminet. However Aminet needs to be updated to keep newest software, drivers etc seperate.
I would like a place for New Amiga Users to learn about how to use the Amiga.
Newbie guide
Top 10 list of wordprocessor, email, paint packages etc
Application list with ratings, online user guide for each app, with pictures !
Like lemon Amiga, nice and colourful.
The problem with Aminet and OS4 depot is no/small pics. we need a cnet download.com front end for Aminet and OS4 depot.
Source code repository i can view online
help system