Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: Acill on August 17, 2003, 08:46:47 AM
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Well I have been looking at the MOs/Pegasos system over the AmigaOne system a lot. I think the MOS solution has a huge advantage Over the new OS4 when/if it ever gets released. I still plan to wait since I dont have the cash and still have a kick ass classic system. Here are my thoughts:
1. MOS is out now, and is getting a lot of new developers on to it NOW.
2. The price for a FASTER and more capable Pegasos II is much better then the current A1 systems out, if you can even find one.
3. From what I have seen MOS just looks awsome! It started out PPC and has a lot of time in the real world getting bugs removed.
All in all if I had to choose today, I think I would go the MOS route. I have been an Amiga user since way back in 1989 when I got an A100, then an A3000 and still use that system today. How do you all feel about this? Do you think Amiga Inc is going to be hurt by the time between the two OS systems release dates?
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/me puts on the hardhat and heads off to the bomb shelter...
:-P
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Personally I'll wait until both competitors are ready to be compared. I'm in no hurry.
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-Sigh-
Here we go again.
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SlimJim
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i agree with mike - how can you truley compare 2 systems without both of them being at their full capacity? The truth is in the tasting my friend... lets see some OS4! :-)
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"A3000D (Towered in Elbox Mirage)
Cyberstorm MK III 060 with 128MB RAM
Mediator 3000
Voodoo 3000 for RTG. (P96)
TrendNet 10/100 Ethernet card (MiamiDX)
Catweasel MK II Zorro II with sony HD drives"
I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy! :-D (nice system!)
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Acill wrote:
Well I have been looking at the MOs/Pegasos system over the AmigaOne system a lot. I think the MOS solution has a huge advantage Over the new OS4 when/if it ever gets released.
Thats your choice, what you think, as a consumer. But why broadcast it to the world?
1. MOS is out now, and is getting a lot of new developers on to it NOW.
Yes, a public beta MOS is out now, and is getting a lot of existing Amiga developers moving to it now. But there is no reason to suggest that in vast quantities they will be exclusive to one system or another.
Away from the cameras there are a large number of developers working on stuff for AOS4.
So in my view its six of one and half a dozen of another.
2. The price for a FASTER and more capable Pegasos II is much better then the current A1 systems out, if you can even find one.
Can you point a link out where you can buy a Pegasos 2?
3. From what I have seen MOS just looks awsome! It started out PPC and has a lot of time in the real world getting bugs removed.
Im sorry I fail to see any logical rationale in the above. Are you saying that AOS4 doesn't look awesome? Awesome is subjective, some people find Mazda MX-5s awesome, I don't.
Starting out PPC? What bits? When? Are you talking about Quark? I fail to see how such a claim ( which is an innaccurate generalisation at best ) can be considered an advantage without providing the logical crux of your argument.
AOS4 is spending a lot of time getting real world use and having bugs removed, over a year at least.
All in all if I had to choose today, I think I would go the MOS route.
Well bully. Next time I buy a new car Ill post my buying preferences on international networks ;-)
I have been an Amiga user since way back in 1989 when I got an A100, then an A3000 and still use that system today. How do you all feel about this? Do you think Amiga Inc is going to be hurt by the time between the two OS systems release dates?
Q1. I feel nothing about your Amiga using history.
Q2. No.
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How much you getting paid for that drivel? It's the only logical explaination for embarrassing yourself like that.
Oh, and my A3000T is better too :)
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-edited by myself-
Acill, I basically agree with your points.
I'm not interested in a "new Amiga" anymore;
the "clean" approach of Peg/MorphOS to the
basic AmigaOS concepts is a plus in my book.
I have my old boxes to run AmigaOS.
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Acill congratulation for you classic configuration!! Very kick ass amiga!
You cannot compare OS4 to MorphOS til MorphOS isn't out. I'm in contact with a famouse MorphOS user and "she" said tha MorphOS (not the new 1.4) is too young operating system and it don't havo important function. MorphOs in all cases is a very nice OS, and Pegasos a very nice machine. But AMigaOne is also a state of the at motherboard, with no articia bug (pegasos 1 have the articia bug). Amiga One lite, the new model for the mass production will be ut soon and it will have ddr memory, fast fsb, firewire and other thing. If you want an amiga, i suggest you to wait. I'm pretty sure you'll like OS4. Instead if you want to "play" now, get a Pegasos, but remember MorphOS is a very nice OS but not AmigaOS.
Pegasos prices is low, and it is good, but try to find a Pegasos1 motherboard. they produce it in a very small quantity. If Pegasos 2 will have nice prices it wil be a god machine... but hey... You are speaking about Peg2 and sayng that OS4 isn't out.. bla blab lba.... Also Peg2 isnt out yet. reflect.
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@-D-
I'm breathing normally ta ;-)
If he is going to start a brand new forum topic to broadcast to the world his thoughts and views and those thoughts and views are illogical or incorrect then he chose to make them public, therefore they are up for debate.
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Alright Dave, I edited my above post becasue
in retrospect it was perhaps a bit asenine.
Statements made public are indeed fair game and
I apologize. :)
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@ikir
You cannot compare OS4 to MorphOS til MorphOS isn't out.
ROTFL!!!
You're criticising MorphOS for "not being out"? I suppose that AmigaOS4 is available for purchase and a thoroughly mature operating system, yes?
MorphOS is young, and according to the less biased reports I've heard from ordinary users it sounds somewhat less stable than I would expect from an operating system today, but there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe that AmigaOS4 will be any better or worse in that respect until ordinary users get to use it and are free to comment on it.
Since that is not the case yet, the only significant difference we know about is that MorphOS is here and AmigaOS4 is not.
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I'm waiting until both systems are mature enough to be compared... But if I'd have that much extra money, I'd probably try get Pegasos now. My goal is to get both systems some day, but until then, I'm happy Classic user :)
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CodeSmith wrote:
/me puts on the hardhat and heads off to the bomb shelter...
Room in there for one more? :-D
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Wow I knew I would get some flame, but sheesh!! I didnt start the thread to tell everyone "hey I love MOS!!"I did it the way I did to first put out why I was asking the question, "DO YOU THINK MOS BEING OUT NOW WILL EFFECT THE DEVELOPERS MOVING TO AOS" Which wasnt even looked at. I love the Amiga, I use it all the time and I could care less of those of you stating you dont care about my history with the amiga. I think Amiga Inc is doing itself a serious dis-service by not putting out Beta releases to show off like MOS has done.
For those that like my system, thanks. I have put a lot of money and time into it over the MANY years I have used it. I still plan to wait as stated. It would be stupid to go get a system now before both are out. I just hope both come out soon.
Does anyone know if Amiga Inc. will sell CSPPC cards or something to help get people on the OS4 train? I just wonder why they would release it first if that wasnt a plan.
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If you think all you did is ask that question, ( which was actually buried at the last line of an opinion piece ) then you should read your post again.
If you think that people disagreeing with you or pointing out where - in future - you should provide more substance in order to make such unusual assertions, is flaming you are quite thin skinned.
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True, to that last post. But hey we are all waiting and getting sick of the "its about here" crapAmigaIncis giving,and the lack of any information at all hurts. I would still say, even after my post I would end of getting an AMIGA and not a Pegasos system, but it is nice looking at a product for sale now.
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Yep. Its been a long old wait.
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-yet another edit-
Not having the easiest time posting this eve :-)
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Well, I can't speak for others but I have personally purchased a
Pegasos and am very happy with it. MorphOS 1.4 is very stable
at this point (compared to classic Amiga OS) and has many new features
in addition to the incredible speed advantage of running all your PPC
and 68K software on modern hardware.
The most important part about the Pegasos is the great developer
community and support offered by Genesi too. It's great to work
in a constructive atmosphere where progress is being made. If you need
more information about the Pegasos platform I suggest visiting
http://www.morphzone.org (see gallery) and http://www.pegasosppc.com
and http://www.morphos.net :)
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I've been curious. How does one boot 68k Amiga software on a MOS system? Do you need to boot into an emulated system, or do you just install it and click like on a real amiga? I'd like some insight if you would give it.
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@Acill
Modern SW that runs from WB and doesn't hit the HW directly should just
run, while you would need UAE for any old game that bypassed the OS.
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I like the fact that MOS is out now and is getting all the kinks out now, as far as developers go, well I have yet to see a list of upcomming office/productivity software for either one, or a list of developers in general (maybe I am not looking hard enough), but any how, I will not pass a decision on how I feel about either system MOS or OS4 untill they both have been out for their respective PPC motherboards for at least 6 months (both systems must be out to compare, and to compare their software markets also).
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Lets compare the PS3 to the X-box2 while where at it here, its a winner, i'm going with the PS3. why? i listen to people views on which one is better over the other as they must have used both to have such a view so there opinion matters ;-)
Anyways, silly thread. it will make for an interesting one though in 6 months time when both are out and matured alittle. until then and if you can't make your mind up, stick with 3.9 and wait for the update, ahmm :-D
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realstar wrote:
Well, I can't speak for others but I have personally purchased a
Pegasos and am very happy with it. MorphOS 1.4 is very stable
at this point (compared to classic Amiga OS) and has many new features
in addition to the incredible speed advantage of running all your PPC
and 68K software on modern hardware.
The most important part about the Pegasos is the great developer
community and support offered by Genesi too. It's great to work
in a constructive atmosphere where progress is being made.
I agree with all of that. I just got another A4000 for nostalgic reasons. Maybe I'll get a PPC and put OS4 on it when my $50 coupon arrives, but my main machine will be the Pegasos.
Going back to AmigaOS now after having used MorphOS feels like going back in time 10 years. It just feels old, and, as fast as AmigaOS is, MorphOS is infinitely faster. The new integrated Turboprint, the 32-bit png icons with transparency, the modern skinnable gui, the transparent powerup/warpup compatibility... it just feels and looks like something designed in the 21st century, whereas AmigaOS still looks like a relic, even in the latest screenshots.
It also seems that Genesi have a coherent vision of where they're going with Pegasos, and the enthusiasm and determination to make it happen, as opposed to Amiga Inc's complete lack of direction or strategy (or money).
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I've been curious. How does one boot 68k Amiga software on a MOS system? Do you need to boot into an emulated system, or do you just install it and click like on a real amiga? I'd like some insight if you would give it.
68k Amiga software runs on MorphOS like charm. On BPPC/CSPPC systems user could replace AmigaOS by MorphOS (but unfortunately decent BPPC/CSPPC versions are not public, grrr).
Old demos or games wont run though, but I'm writing this from IBrowse 2.3... running on MorphOS :-D
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What's better, Game Boy Advance SP, or the Playstation Portable (IIRC that's t3h name).
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I like the fact that MOS is out now and is getting all the kinks out now
Thing is there are no boards for sale at the moment so your waiting either way.As an amigaone owner i will soon let everyone know how good or bad os4 is whenever i get it. :-)
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Better things come in the end than at the start. This is a proven theory.
You might be surprised to see what OS4 will offer. But, if I tell ya, I would divide you in parts and send it to Microsoft HQ. :-D j/k!
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Pegasos/Morph os is a smother more modern version...my two cents thrown in
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more modern version that what? An OS you havent even used yet?
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Acill wrote:
2. The price for a FASTER and more capable Pegasos II is much better then the current A1 systems out, if you can even find one.
Well that's the problem, isn't it? Finding a Pegasos II.
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To add my $0.02 (although probably more like $700-1000), imho the points raised in the original post by Acill are valid.
I'm one of those people slowly returning because of all the news floating about and at this point I have the choice of either going for a Peg with MOS (which look lovely) or an A1 to run Linux.
And seeing as I already have plenty of machines running that my obvious choice at the moment is to go for a Pegasos. Later on if and when AOS4 is released I may consider getting an A1 IF it's good enough and I'm not totally hooked on MOS by then.
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Rose, hole!
Now!
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Windows advantage over mos, it's on sale now cheap, and you can use amiga software via UEA, you can get more native software.
But it's not amiga
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in my opinon you can sum it up like this.
AmigaOne's advantages ... the name
AmigaOne's disadvantage...the name, Amiga.inc
Pegasos advantages ... good support, growing community, forward thinking plans
Pegasos dis-advantages (in this market) ... lack of the name
the community?... the moderates dont follow the name they dont follow anything... they see the work of fellow community members and they judge things based in merit... not on its name
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Despite my earlier comment. Pegasos/MOS beat OS4 to market, if the Peg2 gets out and en mass before OS ships for AmigaOnes, MOS will win hands down. However, they do both seem rather nice operating systems(MOS/classic AmigaOS) Anyone think they could set up some way (like VNC) for me to remote access their Peg/MOS so I can get a feel for what's it s' like without trying to spend more money than I actually have. A demo like that would be very fun, even if there'd be lag (because of remote access)
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by meerschaum on 2003/8/19 11:17:33
in my opinon you can sum it up like this.
AmigaOne's advantages ... the name
AmigaOne's disadvantage...the name, Amiga.inc
Pegasos advantages ... good support, growing community, forward thinking plans
Pegasos dis-advantages (in this market) ... lack of the name
the community?... the moderates dont follow the name they dont follow anything... they see the work of fellow community members and they judge things based in merit... not on its name
What I find interesting is how so many people assume the ONLY reason to buy an AmigaOne is the name.
I haven't seen any more of OS4 than most people (although I know some people who have seen a LOT more), but my decision to buy an AmigaOne over a Pegasos with MorphOS is based SOLELY on what I know of the two systems. Nothing to do with the name at all.
I'm impressed with the quality of the effort I see going in to developing and testing AmigaOS, where MorphOS feels more like the "free-for-all" situation of Linux. In itself, this isn't a bad thing, but despite Linux being my primary desktop OS at home, it's still a far cry from the professionally put together feel of AmigaOS.
Also, my only experience with MorphOS thus far has been extremely disappointing. I do believe people when they say it's stable for them, however the one time I used it, I saw it crash about 6 or 7 times in the space of an hour or two. And that was just Ambient - nothing to do with apps.
I'm happy with the purchase of my AmigaOne and will be even happier when I can use AmigaOS4 on it. I hold no bad feelings towards what the MorphOS developers and community are doing with regards to creating an AmigaOS compatible system, and would have indeed welcomed it with open arms were there not another system in the works. The fragmentation of the community is a very unfortunate side effect of having two projects however, and because of this, despite the good efforts gone into things from the MorphOS developers, I cannot and will not endorse it in any way. Had my experience led me to believe MorphOS were the superior product, I almost certainly would have the same feelings with regards to OS4.
Regards,
Ben de Waal.
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@YttriumOx
Opinonated rant below....this is OPINON I'm not accusing anyone of anything or saying any of this is concrete... this is expressiong the 'mindset' more then anything.
I understand your point...but for you to believe the A1/AOS4 is somehow better 'quality' or 'superior' means you have some degree of faith in what your bieng told from Amiga.inc's side (since it isnt complete yet, running on AmigaOne in your house available to test against MorphOS) ... for many of us...we simply dont trust the Amiga.inc side of things...that having been said can you trust a product made by a company you dont trust?... thats why I list Amiga.inc as a negative to the AmigaOne they represent Amiga as a whole...now we can argue semantics about how Hyperion is not Amiga.inc and Eyetech is not Amiga.inc but their all together on this and who owns the IP? who is at the helm? Amiga.inc is and that is why I group them together into one entity.
I do hope the AmigaOne turns out alright and that OS4 is a good product... but at the same time I hope they make their way onto Pegasos so that this whole community can be united again to some degree.
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You definately bring up some good points, but
I disagree with this:
I'm impressed with the quality of the effort I see going in to developing and testing AmigaOS, where MorphOS feels more like the "free-for-all" situation of Linux. In itself, this isn't a bad thing, but despite Linux being my primary desktop OS at home, it's still a far cry from the professionally put together feel of AmigaOS.
OS4 was 'NOT" looking very professional when
I saw it at AmiWest, being slow, not publically
available to demo and also running on 90's era
dated hardware. And I wouldn't call 3.9 very
"professional" considering the hack 'n patch
job it takes to get useable...cool to tinker
with maybe, but not professional in the sense
that XP or OSX is.
BTW I watched the Peg run app after app without
crashing...OS4 could hardly resize windows
and make it out of the shade of it's own ass...
just my perspective...yes it may crash and I'm
not saying it's perfect, but from what I saw,
there was really no comparison. Several fully
operational systems running on G3's/G4's compared
to a half-finished product running on old 604's?
-edit-
The above is my OPINION, and I actually do
believe that OS4 will be a good product 'when
it's done', and if it comes out for the Peg
I'll probably even buy it.
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@meerschaum
I understand the lack of faith in Amiga Inc. But if you look at WHO gives out technical info regarding OS4, it's usually not Amiga Inc at all. Hyperion are doing a splendid job, but if it were JUST them, I'd probably still have quite a few doubts.
Mostly I base my opinions on the various things said by developers of the various components, the OS4 beta-testers I know (who are altogether far too secretive mostly, but oh well, I can accept that) and my own technical knowledge of systems design - when I read something about how AmigaOS4 will do things, I think about it in relation to how the system is actually going to do things, not just what is claimed. A good example of this is Petunia - truly a masterpiece of design IMHO.
Also keep in mind that my one experience with MorphOS was NOT good. So, to look at it from the other perspective, I'd have to have faith in the people telling me all the good things about MorphOS. I've never seen AmigaOS4, but that also means I've never seen it crash... I've seen MorphOS crash a LOT.
But, each to their own. We'll all see one way or the other after both systems have been released for a few months and the bigger companies choose one way or the other. After all, no matter how excellent a system is, without apps, there's nothing that can be done with it.
Regards,
YttriumOx
AKA Ben de Waal.
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@ -D-
The point exactly - OS4 is not a finished product yet, so that's why it's not available. If they released it in it's current state, it would be suicide.
I couldn't agree more about OS3.9 being unprofessional. It was a horrid series of patches and hacks on top of 3.5, which itself was a bunch of patches on top of what should have been 3.2.
But yeh, you've seen MorphOS running well and AOS4 running badly. I've seen MorphOS running badly and never seen AOS4. Surely my perspective isn't too hard to understand based on my experience?
Just as a side note - I haven't been keeping up recently - can anyone tell me if Genesi have decided on a date for "MorphOS is fully ready and is no longer a beta system", or is it considered that way already? I seem to have seen conflicting views of this around...
OS4 we KNOW isn't ready... when it is, I'd like to try and do an unbiased side by side comparison, but that obviously wouldn't be fair if MorphOS isn't considered "release".
Regards,
Ben de Waal
AKA YttriumOx
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Oh, and it's offtopic, but I feel I have to comment on this:
-D- wrote:
but not professional in the sense that XP or OSX is
I really don't find XP or OSX to be professional feeling in the slightest. They're both just "professional looking" frontends thrown over something else in a hackish sort of way (and XP is debatable if it even looks professional)
Both are quite slow for the hardware they're running on and don't handle things in a clean manner. The print center of OSX for example just feels like a messy and hard to sort out frontend for CUPS (which is not surprising, since that's exactly what it is). It may be okay for one printer connected to a home machine via USB, but in a large corporate environment where you've got about 30 or 40 printers connected in various ways (such as my workplace), it's quite a headache.
The most "professional" OS I've seen to date would have to be Windows 2000. Despite the fact that I despise it's memory handling and it's horridly clumsy administration interface, it does reek of professionalism.
Regards,
Ben de Waal
AKA YttriumOx