Quake II on a 68060 @ 50Mhz?

[KennyR]

I'm afraid I can't STAND WindowsXP. It's so slow it gives me a headache. And that's not even going into all spyware...

[KennyR]

What the hell are you running it on then?

It's slow to boot up, but it's not slow once you're up and running.

1.3 GHz Athlon. It takes so long to do anything that I've just given up on it. If it wasn't the family's I'd find an iso of Win2000 and install that.

Hibernating the PC is problematic on Windows. Once it wakes, your memory as as fragmented as it was when you shut it off. And Windows just keeps getting slower...and slower...and slower...

[KennyR]

Ok, topic has gone waaaaay OT, so this'll be my last post here.

My PC hardware isn't impressive: the HD is probably 'generic' UDMA and I only have 128MB of RAM, of which kind I have no idea, but it's a DIMM. The 'low' amount of RAM is probably the reason why its so painfully slow. I mean it. It gives me migraines just remembering it. I avoid that computer like the plague. :-(

But...Windows XP is slow, even comparing it against other versions of Windows. It has gained notoriety for it, even to the point where it gets slower with every 'hotfix' update. Couple this with the fact that VM thrashes constantly from power on to power off on my PC, and I have a system that is so unusably slow that even my family complain about it.

And it's partly my Amiga and Pegasos's fault, really. They've really eroded my patience. They are so responsive and fast that I just don't realise what kind of sluggishness Windows, Mac and Linux users put up with on a daily basis. They're used to it, I'm not. I guess most people here have never used a really fast Amiga, (currently only the Pegasos or Amithlon box, in my experience UAE doesn't qualify, sorry UAE users). There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but it's like using a monitor instead of a TV - once you try it, you just can't and won't go back.

[KennyR]

There's maybe something wrong with your Athlon box ...

Yes, it's a pile of crap. I could build a better PC with my eyes shut. As mdma said, it's a Time computer. Crap RAM, crap motherboard, crap graphics card. My Pegasos has superior specs in everything but the CPU.

Hibernating the PC is problematic on Windows. Once it wakes, your memory as as fragmented

How could that cause the memory to be fragmented? Hibernation file is fundamentally a memory snapshot of your last session.

It doesn't cause your memory to fragment. Continuous usage does. Windows is not like *ix, and has a an old and primitive form of memory addressing using linked lists, just like the Amiga. Memory under Windows will inevitably become more fragmented. Since the whole memory list must be parsed until it reaches a memory slot large enough on each memory allocation, fragmented memory means more parsing and therefore is mem allocs are much slower and cause a lot of VM paging to go on. This is why people complain that Windows, when left a few weeks online, becomes a lot slower. In fact, after a few days intensive usage Windows should be able to do nothing else but whack the HD.

Usually a reboot returns the system to its pristine state. Waking up from hybernation doesn't. It just continues on from the last time you shut it down. The fragmentation remains to get worse.

[KennyR]

$15 USD would fix that problem for you. And about five to ten minutes tweaking things. I hate to sound snippy, but please don't come back with a reply about "having to tweak things"

It's not my technically my PC to tweak or spend money on. I can't do anything with that PC except use it, and try my best not to punch the screen. I suppose I could tweak it, but its present speed doesn't make me want to go near it. And I really, really don't like using Windows.

Providing there was something I could do with it.. Playing with the OS and going "Oooh! This boots/moves windows/opens menus so much faster than XP!" doesn't constitute "something I could do".

System responsiveness is IMO the single most important property an OS can impart. This is 2003. We have processors that can do billions of cycles a second. We have hard drives that can spool over 40MB/s. Why then do we have to literally wait until apps open? Why do we have to put up with window borders redrawing and the GUI remaining blank for more than 5 seconds it until the system can devote some cycles of an awesomely fast CPU to it? It's totally silly. IMO, in 2003, we should not have to wait for anything. And we should especially not have to wait because of some useless window dressing and a software company who can't code.

[KennyR]

You've got rage issues then. Those aside, then by all means, don't use it. I offer you a solution, and you dodge.

No rage involved. Each to his own. Some people like swimming, some don't, etc. I don't like using Windows. I'm simply not going to use that PC, that's my solution. I have my own. It's a 200MHz one, but it's still more responsive than the Athlon box.

Garbage.

I don't "wait" for things to open. A slight pause doesn't eat away at my soul. The single most imporant property an OS can impart is it's ability to run applications. The availability of those applications is why I go there. If I were after a pretty but application void OS, I'd use BeOS or NeXTStep/OpenStep.

I said in my opinion. You think that applications are more important. I think it's responsiveness and useability. This is why I'm typing this on MorphOS and you on a PC browser. Again, each to his own.

[KennyR]

What kind of chipset does you Athlon box employs?
Are you using UDMA66/100 IDE cabling?
Have you run MS's Boot'Vis utility?
How aggressive is your memory timings?

Chipset: VIA.
UDMA66/100 cabling: Don't know.
MS Boot'Vis: No.
Memory timings: Don't know.

But the performance impact of these things shouldn't really cause XP to be so slow. I mean, I can't really state this enough, I get angry even going near the machine. I've never used anything so slow, ever - not even an unexpanded A1200.

Try increasing it to at least another 64Mb.
I have a test Celeron @500Mhz box that has 192Mb and it run XP-Home fine (i.e. closer to WinXP's ideal memory model).

Time probably gave me two 64MB DIMMS, or even worse, four 32MB ones. I'd need to buy at least 128MB DIMM. It's too costly a step for me, considering it's not even my computer. And I have no idea what kind to buy, or whether they'd conflict with my current ones...

I think, there are websites that covers on how to lighten up your XP setup (e.g. what services to turn off). There might be some Amiga.org members may offer some ways to lighten your XP set-up.

Thanks, I'll try to get my sister to look at them. Considering it takes about a minute to load IE, I'm not going to do it myself. I would end up destroying the machine in frustration. Not rage against Windows, just sheer impatience.

[KennyR]

Why is it Amiga users are the only ones who seem to have these mysterious issues with their PCs?

Because we don't like spending time on them.

[KennyR]

Time Computers are a UK company that specialise in making really substandard PCs look cheaper and better than building one from scratch or getting a PC from someone who can. Their customer support is terrible, their hardware is substandard, and I strongly recommend anyone reading this not to choose this company. Their PCs are custom branded but their motherboards are usually cheap, poor brands.

[KennyR]

What kind of motherboard brands are they using (specifically your motherboard type)?

I honestly don't know. :oops: It's embarassing, but I don't have a clue. I'd have to boot the machine to look, and it's 3am. But judging by the drivers downloadable from the Time support site, it's most likely Gigabyte, MSI or Intel.

[KennyR]

Well, I have still no idea of my motherboard brand or revision. The PC's Device Manager doesn't help and I got no maunuals or drivers with the PC. However, most controllers on the board are VIA.

You can know your UDMA mode via
"Press Windows key + Pause key" -> click to "Hardware" tab-> click to "Device manager" button -> click right button mouse "Properties" menu (on top of "IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers") -> "Advance Settings" tab.

Ok, running at Ultra DMA Mode 5. HD access still uses up all CPU time, though. The system seems to work great, until VM kicks in some minutes of use after booting. Then it's goodbye to any form of speed. Even downloading something makes it impossible to do anything else. It's like using non-DMA, to be honest.

Does your Athlon box uses DDR SDRAM or normal SDRAM?

Almost certainly non-DDR. I can't verify this though.

(about memory speed settings) This is related to your BIOS settings.

Since I got not motherboard or BIOS manual, I'm forced to leave these settings well alone. There's nothing much I can do, anyway, since most of the memory settings are ghosted and can't be changed.

But you bought a Pegy??(I think you did...). Was your Pegy pre-configured? Did you assemble this by yourself?

The Pegasos Open Firmware "BIOS" was pre-configured and optimised by bPlan for the Pegasos-1 and has no obvious hardware settings anyway. It's not like a PC BIOS that has to support hundreds of different configurations. It's just a matter of finding DIMMs and AGP/PCI cards that work, then the machine is fully optimised the moment you turn it on.

[KennyR]

mdma wrote:

My missus is a customer services manager at Time Head Office. PM me and I'll get it sorted for you.

Pointless now, the machine is long past its 1 year warranty. And what really pisses me off is that the DVD-ROM/CDRW/CD-ROM combo drive broke after a few months since purchase, and they ignored any attempts from us to get it replaced under warranty. We phoned twice on their £1 a minute support hotline, only two have them tell us that it was a driver conflict and to update drivers, even though it needed no drivers! £15 down the drain, and we had to buy a new drive anyway, which was not cheap by any means.

Time Computers are thieves. Don't ever buy anything from them.

[KennyR]

@Hammer

(About the motherboard brand) What about SiSandra2003?

It doesn't sound familiar, and the year is not possible. The machine is from 2001.

Sounds like a VIA KT class chipset. At least VIA KT133A. IF your motherboard's PCB colour has a pink/reddish in colour, it's certainly (or a good bet) a MSI built motherboard.

Nope, I saw it when I installed a CD-RW after the DVD combo drive stopped reading CDs. It's standard green.

Anyway, my BIOS text is:

Award Modular BIOS v6.00PG, An Energy Star Ally
Copyright (C) 1984-2000, Award Software Inc.

W6378MS V1.5 081601 14:51:57 (Time Computer Systems)

Main Processor : AMD Athlon(tm) 1333MHz
Memory Testing : 122880K OK + 8192K Shared Memory

Primary Master : ST320410A 3.35
Primary Slave : None
Secondary Master : Toshiba DVD-ROM SD-R1002 1038
Secondary Slave : CW078D ATAPI CD-R/RW V102D

08/16/2001-8361-686B-6A6LMM4SC-00

---------

There are only a few memory settings in the BIOS. and even those very limited. Even my P200's BIOS from 1996 has more. But here they are:

Bank Interleave : Disabled
DRMA Timing by SPD : Yes
SDRAM CAS Latency : Auto*
DRAM/Clock : Auto*

(* - ghosted)

All BIOS are set to uncached (and unshadowed), apart from Video BIOS.

I thought this board (the Pegasos) is aimed at the enthusiasts/tinker market...(sigh)...

To be fair, the target for the Pegasos is multiple OS's, including MacOS. Macs use OpenFirmware as well, so you can see the reason they picked it. Also, Articia-S is set to a solid 100MHz bus with 100MHz memory access, and has no real settings.