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Author Topic: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!  (Read 4743 times)

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Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2005, 03:29:27 AM »
One could say the Atari Jaguar is 64 bits or 16 bits (since it's powered by a kinda 64 bits Tom GPU and a 16 bits MC68000 CPU

Quite the same can be said about the Dreamcast, that proc ranges from 16 'till 128 bits.
Rather look at the amount of polygons per second, MIPS and special graphic features (like texture filtering, and so)

fact is, both systems (+jaguar cd unit) I got in my posession :-D :-D :-D
And the canary said: \'chirp\'
 

Offline bloodlineTopic starter

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2005, 02:53:54 PM »
Quote

mdma wrote:
I am now triple booting as opposed to dual booting.

I have Windows XP Pro, SuSE 9.2 Pro 64bit, and now Windows XP Pro x64 Edition.

WinUAE was fast as hell already on 32bit Windows, but if I reboot into 64bit Windows it's even faster. Even though WinUAE is still a 32bit application.

Nice. :-D

I wonder if Tony will compile a 64bit version of UAE? It could really make good use of those extra registers.  Would that break the JIT as it's for x86 only?  I know the 64bit version of PearPC can't do JIT for the same reason.


I'll Email him. The JIT would have to be redesigned for the A64, it's a totally ditterent CPU design... I wonder, though, if the JIT could run in a 32bit thread while the rest of WinUAE could run in 64bit mode... I have no idea how Win64 handles this sort of stuff :-?

Might be an idea to Email Bernie and see if he wants to make an Athlon64 JIT :-D

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2005, 03:02:13 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

mdma wrote:
I am now triple booting as opposed to dual booting.

I have Windows XP Pro, SuSE 9.2 Pro 64bit, and now Windows XP Pro x64 Edition.

WinUAE was fast as hell already on 32bit Windows, but if I reboot into 64bit Windows it's even faster. Even though WinUAE is still a 32bit application.

Nice. :-D

I wonder if Tony will compile a 64bit version of UAE? It could really make good use of those extra registers.  Would that break the JIT as it's for x86 only?  I know the 64bit version of PearPC can't do JIT for the same reason.


I'll Email him. The JIT would have to be redesigned for the A64, it's a totally ditterent CPU design... I wonder, though, if the JIT could run in a 32bit thread while the rest of WinUAE could run in 64bit mode... I have no idea how Win64 handles this sort of stuff :-?

Might be an idea to Email Bernie and see if he wants to make an Athlon64 JIT :-D


And a PPC JIT while he's at it too. :-)

Although I seem to remember some screenshots of UAE-JIT running on an iMac a while back.

What would be nice is if the PearPC coders made an Athlon64 JIT for PPC code, and then this was merged into UAE and appeared to the emulated Amiga as a CSPPC. Et Voila! OS4 for Windows! ;-)
 

Offline bloodlineTopic starter

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2005, 03:15:55 PM »
Quote

mdma wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

mdma wrote:
I am now triple booting as opposed to dual booting.

I have Windows XP Pro, SuSE 9.2 Pro 64bit, and now Windows XP Pro x64 Edition.

WinUAE was fast as hell already on 32bit Windows, but if I reboot into 64bit Windows it's even faster. Even though WinUAE is still a 32bit application.

Nice. :-D

I wonder if Tony will compile a 64bit version of UAE? It could really make good use of those extra registers.  Would that break the JIT as it's for x86 only?  I know the 64bit version of PearPC can't do JIT for the same reason.


I'll Email him. The JIT would have to be redesigned for the A64, it's a totally ditterent CPU design... I wonder, though, if the JIT could run in a 32bit thread while the rest of WinUAE could run in 64bit mode... I have no idea how Win64 handles this sort of stuff :-?

Might be an idea to Email Bernie and see if he wants to make an Athlon64 JIT :-D


And a PPC JIT while he's at it too. :-)



I've been thinking about this one... A PPC->Athlon64 JIT...

Acording to the PearPC people the Lack of registers in the x86 do not cause much of a speed hit, it is emulating the PPC MMU that is the speed killer...

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2005, 04:03:29 PM »
Quote
the Lack of registers in the x86 do not cause much of a speed hit


So imagine the speed increase that doubling the amount of resiters available will have.
 

Offline bloodlineTopic starter

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2005, 06:23:02 PM »
Quote

mdma wrote:
Quote
the Lack of registers in the x86 do not cause much of a speed hit


So imagine the speed increase that doubling the amount of resiters available will have.


Err... not a lot.. :-?

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2005, 07:40:08 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

mdma wrote:
Quote
the Lack of registers in the x86 do not cause much of a speed hit


So imagine the speed increase that doubling the amount of resiters available will have.


Err... not a lot.. :-?


Well by my logic, if it is fast with the current number of registers, then a native amd64 version with all the extra registers will be a lot quicker for the very same reason that all the other native amd64 progs are.

 

Offline Karlos

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2005, 01:42:00 PM »
@mdma

Remember that x86 has used a RISC style core for a long time. There are actually a very large number of rename registers as 'aliases' for the main ones. You can't use them directly, of course, but they basically allow greater parallelism when subsequent instructions don't depend on the immediate outcome of previous ones.

The AMD64 uses this same trick too. It has a lot more than 16 registers using a similar rename scheme. Even the PPC, with 32 registers uses rename mechanisms to help eliminate stalls when multiple instructions executing concurrently depend on each other. Even the venerable 603e has five rename registers (basically amounting to one each per functional unit in the core).

What it basically means is that x86 and AMD64 both are running from their registers and L1 cache most of the time. Having 16 registers just means you can write better code where the programmer/compiler can take advantage of more registers. If you imagine an algorithm on x86 might spend a reasonable amount of time juggling register variables to/from memory (usually the cache) during a loop, the same algorithm for AMD64 could simply keep the important values in registers, cutting down the number of instructions required to perform the overall operation. This is where you will see some speedup.

int p; // A
 

Offline bloodlineTopic starter

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2005, 03:13:25 PM »
I think the speed up from 32bit to 64bit that mdma and myself are experiencing is simply due to more elegant optimisation allowed for by 16 registers... also the ISA of the x86-64 long mode has been "cleaned up", probably allowing instrution sequencing to allow better branch prediction and better caching, not to mention it probably looks a lot more like the RISC core, which means less overhead too.

-Edit-

<----Look at the size of that Cache!!! :-o

-/Edit-

Note, the Athlon64's register size is now 64bit long, Not sure if there is much 64bit integer processing in Windows but that will be speeded up. Maybe CPU's are so fast now that Microsoft needs counters that can go above 4billion for their "Your Brand new CPU is too slow" delay loops ;-)

Offline Karlos

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #38 on: January 17, 2005, 05:47:03 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:
I think the speed up from 32bit to 64bit that mdma and myself are experiencing is simply due to more elegant optimisation allowed for by 16 registers...


Which is basically what I was trying to say, but you managed a lot better job of it :lol:
int p; // A
 

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2005, 06:42:25 PM »
And the 1MB of L2 cache has a HUGE benefit I would imagine too! :-D
 

Offline bloodlineTopic starter

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2005, 08:41:15 AM »
Quote

Karlos wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
I think the speed up from 32bit to 64bit that mdma and myself are experiencing is simply due to more elegant optimisation allowed for by 16 registers...


Which is basically what I was trying to say, but you managed a lot better job of it :lol:


I think you need to cut down on the registers, mate... 32 seem to have made your head go funny... Stick to 16, you KNOW it makes sense :-D

Offline Karlos

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2005, 11:23:24 AM »
Surely you need 64 registers to complete the 64ness of it all? :-P
int p; // A
 

Offline bloodlineTopic starter

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2005, 02:29:43 PM »
Quote

Karlos wrote:
Surely you need 64 registers to complete the 64ness of it all? :-P


:lol: I learned asm with 16 regs, I don't need any more :-)


-Off Topic- I was just curious about what this 2Ghz 64bit chip could do... and decided to set the Front Side Bus to 230Mhz (up from 200Mhz). I now have the thing running at 2.3Ghz, I didn't need to increase the Vcore... the Temp has gone up from 23C to 26C... and it's totally stable... VERY fast too... I'm glad I paid extra for some branded Memory now :-D

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #43 on: January 18, 2005, 04:14:13 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

Karlos wrote:
Surely you need 64 registers to complete the 64ness of it all? :-P


:lol: I learned asm with 16 regs, I don't need any more :-)


-Off Topic- I was just curious about what this 2Ghz 64bit chip could do... and decided to set the Front Side Bus to 230Mhz (up from 200Mhz). I now have the thing running at 2.3Ghz, I didn't need to increase the Vcore... the Temp has gone up from 23C to 26C... and it's totally stable... VERY fast too... I'm glad I paid extra for some branded Memory now :-D


Lucky bugger! I can't OC mine as it's a flaming laptop.  The only options the BIOS has is to change the time and boot device. :-(
 

Offline bloodlineTopic starter

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #44 from previous page: January 18, 2005, 05:35:21 PM »
Quote

mdma wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

Karlos wrote:
Surely you need 64 registers to complete the 64ness of it all? :-P


:lol: I learned asm with 16 regs, I don't need any more :-)


-Off Topic- I was just curious about what this 2Ghz 64bit chip could do... and decided to set the Front Side Bus to 230Mhz (up from 200Mhz). I now have the thing running at 2.3Ghz, I didn't need to increase the Vcore... the Temp has gone up from 23C to 26C... and it's totally stable... VERY fast too... I'm glad I paid extra for some branded Memory now :-D


Lucky bugger! I can't OC mine as it's a flaming laptop.  The only options the BIOS has is to change the time and boot device. :-(


Well my chip is a 90nm one and they have built up quite a reputation for Over Clocking... I noticed that mine ran 23C... I don't think I've ever seen a CPU run so cold!... I decided to crank up the Speed... :-D

According to SandraSoft, I'm clocking in at around the same processing power as a Pentium 4 at 3.8Ghz... :-o