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Author Topic: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!  (Read 4745 times)

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Offline bloodlineTopic starter

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2005, 10:38:01 PM »
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mdma wrote:
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bloodline wrote:
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mdma wrote:
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bloodline wrote:
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KennyR wrote:
I think most people subconciously think 64 bit will offer a lot more performance than 32. Actually it's usually the opposite, and even when a 64 bit CPU is actually used optimally, it's still not a lightyear ahead of current CPUs.


Well this Athlon54 at 2Ghz is certainly a good margin faster than my 3,06Ghz P4... but that's because the P4 sux :-D



Sh!t loads of extra registers is what gives it it's speed. Oh, and the 1MB of cache on-die. :-)

64bit Linux is a hell of a lot faster on this Athlon64 3200+ of mine than 32bit Linux is.


Snap! I've got a 3200 (939 version) too :-)

Actaulyl now I've got all the drivers installed in the Windows64, it's starting to really get fast :-o It's not a little faster than my P4... it's a LOT faster (in 64bit mode anyway)!!!


Mine's in my laptop it gets hot as fek!! :-)

Have you tried AROS on it it yet? It works fine for me on this laptop with Athlon64, VIA chipset and ATI 9600.

If only we had an ATI driver for AROS it'd be even quicker than it is in VESA mode.

Have you installed the AMD processor driver from the AMD website yet?


I've run AROS on this machine... I nearly pooped my pants :-D Though I've yet to get the AROS Nvidia driver to recognise my PCIExpress gfx card :-) Still it's sooperdooper fast in VESA mode!

AMD Processor driver? I'll have a look now :-D

Offline Karlos

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2005, 11:37:43 PM »
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mdma wrote:

Sh!t loads of extra registers is what gives it it's speed. Oh, and the 1MB of cache on-die. :-)

64bit Linux is a hell of a lot faster on this Athlon64 3200+ of mine than 32bit Linux is.


Here you demonstrate my point exactly. The performance increase is sod all to do with the "64-bitness" of the CPU. Rather it is down to having a new core architecture, more registers, new instructions and a larger cache.

All the 64-bit really refers to is the addressable space - and one assumes all the internal/external buses.
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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2005, 11:46:45 PM »
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Karlos wrote:
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mdma wrote:

Sh!t loads of extra registers is what gives it it's speed. Oh, and the 1MB of cache on-die. :-)

64bit Linux is a hell of a lot faster on this Athlon64 3200+ of mine than 32bit Linux is.


Here you demonstrate my point exactly. The performance increase is sod all to do with the "64-bitness" of the CPU. Rather it is down to having a new core architecture, more registers, new instructions and a larger cache.

All the 64-bit really refers to is the addressable space - and one assumes all the internal/external buses.


I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was trying to demonstrate your point.

One of the other teachers at college won't have it that the 64bitness isn't the reason for the speed increase.  He even tells his students this untruth.  So when they come to me for their C++ lessons they don't beleive me when i tell them the truth because i'm a student teacher.  :pissed:
 

Offline T_Bone

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2005, 11:32:15 AM »
I want a **TRUE** 64 bit CPU!!!

64 bit ASSEMBLY OPCODES baby!! YEA!
(with that many opcodes, assembly would pretty much be a high level language)
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Offline bloodlineTopic starter

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2005, 11:46:28 AM »
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T_Bone wrote:
I want a **TRUE** 64 bit CPU!!!

64 bit ASSEMBLY OPCODES baby!! YEA!
(with that many opcodes, assembly would pretty much be a high level language)


:nervous: Don't let T-Bone near any CPU design lab! :-D

Offline Karlos

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2005, 12:12:14 PM »
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T_Bone wrote:
I want a **TRUE** 64 bit CPU!!!

64 bit ASSEMBLY OPCODES baby!! YEA!
(with that many opcodes, assembly would pretty much be a high level language)


Well, suppose you made a super RISC load/store architecture where you had, eg 65536 integer and 65536 floating point registers, you could easily have 64-bit opcodes. 16-bits for the instruction and up to 16-bits each for each register definition :lol:
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Offline Karlos

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2005, 12:13:24 PM »
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mdma wrote:

I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was trying to demonstrate your point.


No, no, I realise that. I was just connecting your post and mine :-)
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Offline bloodlineTopic starter

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2005, 12:30:17 PM »
Quote

Karlos wrote:
Quote

T_Bone wrote:
I want a **TRUE** 64 bit CPU!!!

64 bit ASSEMBLY OPCODES baby!! YEA!
(with that many opcodes, assembly would pretty much be a high level language)


Well, suppose you made a super RISC load/store architecture where you had, eg 65536 integer and 65536 floating point registers, you could easily have 64-bit opcodes. 16-bits for the instruction and up to 16-bits each for each register definition :lol:


Hmmmm, you would probably just have a 64K register file...

Offline Karlos

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2005, 12:52:24 PM »
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bloodline wrote:

Hmmmm, you would probably just have a 64K register file...


Well, you could still have L2 cache, but you'd have less need of L1 cache :lol:

I dread to think how difficult to code such a system would be implement, let alone code for. It would be difficult to manage such a huge register file effectively in a multitasking OS.

Still, whilst we're being silly :-D...

Mind you, if you had a default 'offset' register that allows your definition of 'register 0' to be offset to any register in the file, you could implement a sort of "fixed register size per task" kernel, where each task would have it' own block of X registers. Once the register file fills, youd page out the ones for those tasks that arent doing anything.

Other than that, each task would just see eg 32 registers belonging to it that the OS almost never has to save/restore as part of task switching.

I wonder what the upper limit is for a sensible 'directly accessible' (that is not including shadowning and forwarding) register count?

I think PPC's 32 is more than enough, really...
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Offline bloodlineTopic starter

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2005, 01:08:10 PM »
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Karlos wrote:
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bloodline wrote:

Hmmmm, you would probably just have a 64K register file...


Well, you could still have L2 cache, but you'd have less need of L1 cache :lol:

I dread to think how difficult to code such a system would be implement, let alone code for. It would be difficult to manage such a huge register file effectively in a multitasking OS.

Still, whilst we're being silly :-D...

Mind you, if you had a default 'offset' register that allows your definition of 'register 0' to be offset to any register in the file, you could implement a sort of "fixed register size per task" kernel, where each task would have it' own block of X registers. Once the register file fills, youd page out the ones for those tasks that arent doing anything.

Other than that, each task would just see eg 32 registers belonging to it that the OS almost never has to save/restore as part of task switching.

I wonder what the upper limit is for a sensible 'directly accessible' (that is not including shadowning and forwarding) register count?

I think PPC's 32 is more than enough, really...


If you read how the register rename feature on an Althon64 works, it's a bit like what you've described :-)

Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2005, 01:12:30 PM »
pha, nowadays the new atlon64 seems to be new, but Commodore had more than 20 years ago already a Commodore64!
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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2005, 08:22:53 PM »
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Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
pha, nowadays the new atlon64 seems to be new, but Commodore had more than 20 years ago already a Commodore64!


And everyone's forgettting the Nintendo64 was 64bit years ago. :-D (Yes, I know it wasn't STRICTLY 64bit)
 

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2005, 01:36:58 AM »
I am now triple booting as opposed to dual booting.

I have Windows XP Pro, SuSE 9.2 Pro 64bit, and now Windows XP Pro x64 Edition.

WinUAE was fast as hell already on 32bit Windows, but if I reboot into 64bit Windows it's even faster. Even though WinUAE is still a 32bit application.

Nice. :-D

I wonder if Tony will compile a 64bit version of UAE? It could really make good use of those extra registers.  Would that break the JIT as it's for x86 only?  I know the 64bit version of PearPC can't do JIT for the same reason.
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2005, 01:47:09 AM »
I expect it would harm the JIT. After all, Athlon64 "64-bit native" code has about as much in common with the original x86 as PPC does :-) A new JIT would need to be developed.

I wonder how much of the speed increase on 64-bit windows is down to lower latency of system calls (assuming 64-bit system code runs faster for all the various reasons mentioned) ?
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Offline odin

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2005, 02:19:35 AM »
Wasn't the Atari Jaguar sold as a 64bit machine too? =)

Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: Guess who's gone all 64bit!!!!!
« Reply #29 from previous page: January 16, 2005, 03:29:27 AM »
One could say the Atari Jaguar is 64 bits or 16 bits (since it's powered by a kinda 64 bits Tom GPU and a 16 bits MC68000 CPU

Quite the same can be said about the Dreamcast, that proc ranges from 16 'till 128 bits.
Rather look at the amount of polygons per second, MIPS and special graphic features (like texture filtering, and so)

fact is, both systems (+jaguar cd unit) I got in my posession :-D :-D :-D
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