To Vampire or not

[wawrzon]

The non-standard fpu is the reason I'm not buying the A1222/Tabor.

as if it was everybodys interest, what you are buying and what not.

[Iggy]

as if it was everybodys interest, what you are buying and what not.

You, I don't care about, other's purchases I want to know about, and the reasoning that drew them to that purchase, so yes I feel the need to explain my logic.

You're always free not to read it (or comment on it). :hammer:

[psxphill]

Zorro1 == A500/1000 sideport == 68000 bus

Zorro2 == Zorro1 + some stuff for autoconfig

No, that is wrong.

the A500/A1000 expansion port is roughly equivalent to the CPU slot in the A2000.

Zorro 1 = square expansion cards that were used in ranger prototype & byte by byte pal/pal jr

http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=1363

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/paljr

http://www.vintageisthenewold.com/prototype-found-amiga-ranger/

Notice how Garganturam is used on both & byte by byte were using the A2090 prototype which wasn't finished. I would love to know more details about that deal.

Zorro 2 = Zorro 1 using ISA card form factor.

The rationale was that lots of companies were making ISA cards, so it would be cheaper to make Zorro 2 cards the same form factor. It may also have had something to do with commodore germany loving PC's & wanting the A2000 to have Zorro 2 and ISA slots.

I don't know if Zorro 1 was called that, or if it was just Zorro.

Well, then please understand that before the Vampire 2 there was a Vampire 1 and that had (as an alternative to the tg68 it came with) another core that was derived from the Apollo Core. Because of space constraints of the tiny FPGA it was single-scalar and only had partial 020 Support (and, of course, no FPU). How does this fit with your approach Apollo Core == Vampire core?

Vampire 2 had a bigger FPGA, so it didn't need to use the cut down Vampire 1 core. That doesn't really help whatever it is your argument is.

[grond]

Vampire 2 had a bigger FPGA, so it didn't need to use the cut down Vampire 1 core. That doesn't really help whatever it is your argument is.

My argument is that Apollo Core != Vampire Core. E.g. Apollo Core is three-way superscalar while the core in the Vampire is only two-way superscalar. The core in the v2 is (again) just a core derived from the more feature-complete Apollo Core but better debugged and more thoroughly tested. Thus, it is correct to say that the Apollo Core has an FPU while the core in the Vampire has none. It's like "pro" and "consumer" level variants of a product.

[kolla]

http://wiki.apollo-accelerators.com/doku.php/faq

Q: Do Vampires have a FPU ?
A: The implemented FPU will be a 68060 compatible FPU. FPU is currently disabled and is a WIP.

What does this mean then?

[Djole]

It means 060 compatible FPU is  not working and its work in progress, just like its stated.... If you want to get Apollo core for some other use like running your washing machine you can ask Gunnar about available FPU options....

[ShK]

2014 when we moved from TG68.C to Apollo core, it was called as Phoenix Core mini:

https://vimeo.com/114893828

Gunnar spent a lot of time and effort to shrink full Apollo core to the Vampire 1 FPGA. Many features must be left out due to lack of space on V1 FPGA. Later with V2 we actually had a few FPU instruction, but they made more harm than good.

[Iggy]

So...how large IS the full Apollo core?

BTW - Most of this info is completely new to me, so I appreciate that after much pain, we are now discussing it.

IF the plan is to continue to enhance the Vampire project with bigger, faster FPGAs, with more features implemented from this core (as well as features yet unimplemented), THEN, of course you have my full support.

AND, I might even be will to excuse some of the sky-high hyperbole.

[grond]

http://wiki.apollo-accelerators.com/doku.php/faq


What does this mean then?

You are quoting from a site that is run by somebody as a free service to the project. I'm sure you know how to find out who it is and that it is not Gunnar. The information you quoted is inaccurate to say the least. You know that as well as anybody else. I wouldn't believe you that you didn't know that there was no FPU when you ordered your Vampire cards and that this misinformation tricked you into buying two of them.

The Vampire cards are Igor's product, Gunnar just provides the core for them on a voluntary basis. I understand that under normal circumstances a customer would not have to care about the internals of this entire project but nothing about this project and the market surrounding it is normal.

[kolla]

@grond
What?

No, I consider it the most official site for information about Vampire, it's from there I ordered the boards!

So, if that is not the official source for information about the core running on the Vampire, then what is? Majsta's site?

[David Wright]

Will the new core have a remote start like my car? I heard it somewhere.

[Iggy]

Will the new core have a remote start like my car? I heard it somewhere.

No, you misinterpreted that.
It will start your car remotely. :lol:

Look there's a lot of friction here about the Vampire project, but it IS a hobbyist project.

If you want real drama about a commercial endeavor you need to look at the BigRAM thread.

[wawrzon]

If you want real drama about a commercial endeavor you need to look at the BigRAM thread.

wtf? jens forgot to mention that it will be slow as hell and people are climbing the walls? i doubt that.  dont really remember customers being disappointed with this gimmick as much as audience commenting on every development of apollo core or vampire, be it the raam amount it comes with. which is actually a good sign.

[Iggy]

wtf? jens forgot to mention that it will be slow as hell and people are climbing the walls? i doubt that.  dont really remember customers being disappointed with this gimmick as much as audience commenting on every development of apollo core or vampire, be it the raam amount it comes with. which is actually a good sign.

Not so much that its slow, as they simply haven't been able to get it to work.

And a lot of my commentary on the Vampire project is related to my lack of understanding about how separate the Apollo team and the Vampire team are.

All the hype from Gunnar doesn't help, or the editing of threads destroying their continuity. But, long term this particular FPGA project could do a lot of good.

Although...its still not going to replace my MorphOS hardware. :hammer:

[Djole]

Not so much that its slow, as they simply haven't been able to get it to work.

And a lot of my commentary on the Vampire project is related to my lack of understanding about how separate the Apollo team and the Vampire team are.

All the hype from Gunnar doesn't help, or the editing of threads destroying their continuity. But, long term this particular FPGA project could do a lot of good.

Although...its still not going to replace my MorphOS hardware. :hammer:

I dont know how hard it can be, Apollo is a 68k softcore. Vampire board uses a adapted version of the Apollo core. People dont want or just cant understand this but its very simple, there are many versions of the Apollo core, one just seems to fit our beloved Amiga....Thanks to the hard work of the A-team.

[Iggy]

I'm actually an 68K fanatic, which by default makes me a fan of the Amiga, but "beloved" might be an exaggeration for my attachment to the design.

So your information, at least to me, has been rather encouraging.

Plus, the Apollo work can definitely be used in other projects, so its of added interest to me.

Thanks for clearing things up.