A3000 Zorro Bus issues

[AltRN8]

I have an A3000 that I am refreshing the AMIX install on. While checking the machine over I noticed that the two boards installed A2065 and A2410 are not showing up concurrently in expansion board diagnostics. I can get either of them to show up when they are installed alone but not when they are installed together. I'm pretty sure these boards should be compatible with each other so I am looking for ideas on what else could be going on.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Pat the Cat]

I have an A3000 that I am refreshing the AMIX install on. While checking the machine over I noticed that the two boards installed A2065 and A2410 are not showing up concurrently in expansion board diagnostics. I can get either of them to show up when they are installed alone but not when they are installed together. I'm pretty sure these boards should be compatible with each other so I am looking for ideas on what else could be going on.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Need more info.

Are you checking the board under Amix? Which util? Which version?

Which set of graphics drivers are you using for the A2410? ONLY likes cybergfx 2, 4.2. if testing under AmigaOS.

What is the Buster revision on the A3000? (A2065 is DMA friendly network card... but I don't think it is that).

Also be aware, there are two versions and at least 6 revisions of the A2410. It is a very obscure graphics card - max 8 bit only. 24 bit palette. It was definitely built into A3000UX, so should be Amix friendly.

Another  possible snag - the A2065 was released a year earlier than the A2410,  so there is no guarantee it was ever compatible with Amix (Not all CBM  hardware cards were compatible).

Now, if they've both been in  there and working quite happily, and suddenly there's a hardware problem  that you can reproduce in a different OS, that obviously points to real  hardware problem on the A3000.

So, might be an idea to try  diagnosing it with a different OS - which isn't too tricky on an A3000,  as the ROM file used for the OS sits on a hard drive.

I don't  suppose you could try a different OS using a different hard drive? Because  if they both work on AmigaOS, then the hardware is fine, and it's your  Amix install at fault.

Probably you are right, it is a hardware problem with the machine... but I really can't tell from your post.

And to be totally honest, even if I was standing right next to it - I couldn't tell either.

First thing I would do - blow into or vacuum out the Zorro slots. Might just be some crud in them.

[Castellen]

I have an A3000 that I am refreshing the AMIX install on. While checking the machine over I noticed that the two boards installed A2065 and A2410 are not showing up concurrently in expansion board diagnostics. I can get either of them to show up when they are installed alone but not when they are installed together. I'm pretty sure these boards should be compatible with each other so I am looking for ideas on what else could be going on.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Sounds like a problem with the expansion board setup logic.  What happens during boot is that only the first expansion board is visible at the Z2 base address of 0x00E80000.  The system reads this, allocates it a new address, then the board goes away.  Then the next expansion is available at the 0x00E80000 base address, it gets given a new address, it goes away and so on until no more boards are found.

Common things that can break this logic is a defective U600 on the A3000 Zorro riser board or also a defective expansion card.  If you have any other expansions that you know work, you can isolate the problem to a specific card (i.e. when you can get any two Z2 expansion boards seen in early startup).  Or isolate the problem to the A3000 hardware if only one of any two good boards will autoconfigure.

[Pat the Cat]

Could be something totally different - the cards are good for an Amix A3000, but the ROM might not be.

The A3000UX is fully capable of running AmigaOS in every way the  "normal" A3000 is but was supplied with the special Kickstart 1.4 ROMs  that were designed to either boot UNIX or load the real Kickstart from a  file.

http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=26

If  you've had Amix running on the same board, OK, but the thing is, it  doesn't say if the ROM's were on chip or on drive. Er... don't know  about that.

Must admit, I can't find many chips on the riser card  (Zorro Bus card array) and they don't seem that exotic too replace, 74 series TTL chips I think, not  custom hardware. There are actually a couple different A3000 riser cards  out there, but the rarest you might ever come across are;-

http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/media/download_photos/f78d2ced-0f1a-4d7b-a18c-2d0ab62f4316.jpg

http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/media/download_photos/32f603b8-7aaa-4a6c-ba04-dd223cd207f3.jpg

Only  50 made, unknown number missing or destroyed, only 3-6 examples  currently known. If it's an A3000+ Riser card, it is a seriously RARE  piece of tech.

[AltRN8]

first off thanks for the responses. While gathering information to respond I think I stumbled across the answer. Turns out I have a Buster 9 which apparently has issues with Zorro II cards when installed in a 16Mhz machine. The machine had a 68040 25Mhz which I had to pull to get AMIX installed. That would explain the problem I'm seeing completely. I tested some other working cards but they were all Zorro II. I'll have to dig out a Zorro III card to confirm but I'm pretty sure this is the issue.

My options I think are:

1) find an A3630 25Mhz with fpu.
2) downgrade the buster (not sure if this would help)
3) overclock my 16Mhz which I hear is doable and fine but also heard it is dangerous.

Thanks again for the help so far.

[Matt_H]

Interesting. I have a 16MHz 3000 with a Buster 7 and 2065, 2232, and GVP Spectrum and all works well. If you can find a Buster 7 it would probably be quite cheap since they are not sought after. Would a Buster 11 solve it as well?

[Pat the Cat]

Interesting. I have a 16MHz 3000 with a Buster 7 and 2065, 2232, and GVP Spectrum and all works well. If you can find a Buster 7 it would probably be quite cheap since they are not sought after. Would a Buster 11 solve it as well?

AFAIK no Nix A3000s were supplied with 16MHz 030s. Ever.

So it's kind of an untested and unsupported configuration - if it's an issue with the Processor, Buster might not make a difference. But, if downgrading the Buster helps for that inbuilt processor being compatible with Zorro cards, that might resolve it.

There can also be an issue with A3000s not quite having the same CPU (accelerator) connector as an A4000. I think one interrupt is missing. That can affect expansion card chocies, IIRC.

It is not that easy to tell a Zorro II from a Zorro III card, the connector isn't that different. But the differences in terms of DMA and bus transfer speed are pretty big.

If it was me, I'd take option 3. Upgrade the A3000 with an overclock. It's a risk, but it seems to offer the most definite fix. It might not be a choice for the OP, but it's what I'd try and do

Buster upgrade or downgrade really depends what you have plugged into the Bus. Sometimes it makes no odds on transfer speeds or performance. Sometimes it is necessary just to get a system to boot.

I think running full Nix on a non-mainframe 16MHz system is crazy. Depends how you specifiy "full Nix" I guess. And "crazy".

[AltRN8]

Buster 11 shares the same problem from what I've read.

[magnetic]

yes i highly doubt in this case its a buster problem.

[AltRN8]

I agree it's crazy to do but I've been on a mission for a while to do it. Why? Well that's most definitely the crazy part. I also not to long ago got A/UX running on some old Mac hardware. Maybe I just like really esoteric setups.

I'll probably give the overclock a try. After I get it working I'll probably end up shifting it back to a normal A3000.

[Pat the Cat]

I agree it's crazy to do but I've been on a mission for a while to do it. Why? Well that's most definitely the crazy part. I also not to long ago got A/UX running on some old Mac hardware. Maybe I just like really esoteric setups.

I'll probably give the overclock a try. After I get it working I'll probably end up shifting it back to a normal A3000.

I wouldn't. 25MHz were far more common, only a few early ones had a 16MHz.

Nobody wanted them.

As for NIX, it's a bit weirder than I thought - NIX machines not only had a different ROM, you had to actually select Amix on boot. Found this, scroll down for screenshots;-

http://gona.mactar.hu/Commodore/Amiga/

[AltRN8]

This is a first revision A3000 for sure. The motherboard revision is 6.1 which I believe was the first production run.

Maybe I should just try running it on my A3000T since that's a 25Mhz system and put the A3640 back into the A3000.

[Acill]

I can convert it to a 25Mhz if it is a 16Mhz. The 16 can OC just fine. I did one for someone here not long ago as well. The issue they had was trying to run a faster CPU on it caused issues with its speed, and he couldnt get a Buster 11 to work in it at 16. Once I converted all issues went away. I socketed all the work I did too so it could be reverted if he ever needed that done.

[Pat the Cat]

I can convert it to a 25Mhz if it is a 16Mhz.

So could I.

I socketed all the work I did too so it could be reverted if he ever needed that done.

Blimey, respect. To you and anyone else here that could do that. I was taught how to solder before SMDs were invented, NO WAY could I do that. Not on a board that was already populated.

I seriously need to relearn some skills.:hammer: