Amiga.org
Operating System Specific Discussions => Amiga OS => Amiga OS -- Development => Topic started by: ricco32097 on November 06, 2006, 04:22:14 PM
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They have used two years so far.
They say that five men are currently working on this system and they will be adding more people. Should we expect anything from them before the year 2010?
Is the hardware ready?
Then again...why ask when nobody knows. Bummer!
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Mmm. I sometimes worry.
Not alot. But sometimes.
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just treat it as vapour until there is actually proof...otherwise you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.
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TheMagicM wrote:
just treat it as vapour until there is actually proof...otherwise you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.
I agree.. better to have low expectations and maybe one day be pleasantly suprised. If you no expectations, then you wont really get dissapointed either.
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TheMagicM wrote:
just treat it as vapour until there is actually proof...otherwise you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.
Quoted for truth.
When OS5 was first announced there was still momentum in the Amiga market. Now... nothing.
For me Amiga's final nail in the coffin as far as anything other then a retro system was when Eyetech announced that A.inc hadn't touched OS4 in months due to money troubles, on the day of the launch of the ill fated AOne.
There was a joke in the BeOS community as to which would be released first - AOS4 or Zeta R1.0.... Well, Zeta is now at 1.2 and OS4 will thanks to the tangled web that's been weaved probably will never see a final release. At this point, I fully expect Zeta will get full multiuser functionality and a 2.0 release before a new version of AmigaOS is released (by that I mean something other then a beta).
At this point I see devices like the minimig to have far more of a future then any number of troikas, samanthas or whatevers. AmigaOS at this point is so far behind on so many levels that beyond retro computing, has no hope of being marketable to the general public, or even more mainstream geeks.
Sorry if that upsets anyone, but that is how I see it.
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:horse:
Dammy
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It would suprise me if we have anything called
OS5 by 2010.
I think the problem nowdays is( of course funding ) but
also the attitude that "amiga can't compete with windows"
is not helping to move the platform forward.
Instead years ago, those in charge should have done what
Mac did now. They should have thought "Yes we have an OS that can compete with windows because its just that good" and went head on challenging Windows on those x86'es. I wonder what did they think they got to loose? The userbase
disappeared anyway.
I know it's easy to speak afterwards of what should have
been done, but as long as Amiga is heading where it's headning now there is NO future what so ever....unless you are 100% pleased to be a hobbyist on a hobbyist os.
It's also interesting to see the originals, Sassenrath, Haynie being so openminded towards general hardware. You
would expect them to be "loyal" to the Amigas roots but as
I see it they grew with the rest of the world and actually
sees the things with an open mind.
They have no built in legacy support in their thoughts about Amiga :-)
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seems to me that AROS is the way to go...
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kzin wrote:
seems to me that AROS is the way to go...
yup... I'll be dual-booting Vista/AROS with my next hardware rebuild.
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there's always gonna be room for another os. linux has just become a great alternative to windows and it's free... and it took it's time doing so, if you ask me. it's a shame the amiga is only looked at as a money making exercise instead of any other strengths it has.
surely there is some nostalgia amongst some millionaire's out there? is anyone actively lobbying them??? ubuntu linux has got good support from someone very rich in south africa. i'm not sure if they are into the idea of big profit in the future. but when you have little userbase you have to go back to basics not dwell on what amiga was or could be. you have to get amiga on peoples desktops again anyway you can. emulation was a great way to bring in people. but so many disgruntled community members sneered at new members as "pirates" they went elsewhere... cutting the amiga userbase even more. what a shame!
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OT@Dammy:
Sometimes I swear that dead horse is your avatar...
benJamin
"Quad-boot FC6, FC5, AROS and XP (for the lady)."
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The problem I have with Linux is that it's not as easy to use as Windows and is now as memory hungry.
AROS FTW! It boots fast and doesn't have that bloat factor and is easier to use.
But for OS5, to be platform independent, it needs to come with a JIT that runs a platform independant language such as any intermediate-code made by Microsoft's .NET platform.
Real, the Amiga-Anywhere model is a really smart idea, but I don't know if JAVA is the right language to do that with. Hardware drivers would still be natively compiled, just that an API that is common to all platforms would expose it to the programmer and all apps would run on all platforms...
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As far as I am concerned, the Amiga died the same day Commodore did all those years ago. I was at first excited when someone finally bought them. But then there were all the changing of hands. Finally, when Gateway got its hands on things Amiga, I was excited again. But then I realised once again that nothing was happening. And now...well
We will prolly never see an actual OS4.0 let alone an OS5.0. The factors are many I suspect. Sometimes, I can't help but wonder if the demise of the AmigaOS doesn't have a darker force behind it. (Microsoft)
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First of all Alan's negativity and badmouthing of the AmigaOS sucks.
Secondly, what, exactly, do we need Amiga Inc. for anyway? I doubt they have the money to mount a legal challenge against anybody who tried to infringe on their "rights". Maybe a little economic hardship would be all it would take to convince them to sell off whatever rights they do suposedly have. Does Fleecy stll have a greencard?
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Sometimes I swear that dead horse is your avatar...
You're mistaken, it was legion's one :-P
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surely there is some nostalgia amongst some millionaire's out there? is anyone actively lobbying them???
Problem is, most millionaires didn't get to be millionaires by throwing their money away on something with no chance of any returns. Now, that doesn't discount the possibility of finding someone who inherited the money or won the lottery, but the flip side of the coin is many of those people aren't already millionaires because they lack the business acumen to become one, which also isn't good.
I'm one of those who don't see the need for Amiga NG products. I'd rather have a computer that was the brightest and best system of it's time instead of a new system that can't hold a candle to even mediocre systems of the present.
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jorkany wrote:
surely there is some nostalgia amongst some millionaire's out there? is anyone actively lobbying them???
Problem is, most millionaires didn't get to be millionaires by throwing their money away on something with no chance of any returns. Now, that doesn't discount the possibility of finding someone who inherited the money or won the lottery, but the flip side of the coin is many of those people aren't already millionaires because they lack the business acumen to become one, which also isn't good.
I'm one of those who don't see the need for Amiga NG products. I'd rather have a computer that was the brightest and best system of it's time instead of a new system that can't hold a candle to even mediocre systems of the present.
Why are you here then, if you are not interested?
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amiwalker,
Why are you here then, if you are not interested?
I'm pretty sure the Amiga (remember, the REAL Amiga?) is still considered an Amiga.
Or were you just referring to this particular thread and not AO in general? In that case, it's pretty much the same reason as why people gawk at auto accidents.
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lou_dias wrote:
The problem I have with Linux is that it's not as easy to use as Windows and is now as memory hungry.
The problem you have with Linux is that you're familiar with Windows...
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I don't know when OS5 will be out, but I know it will run on the Shark PPC! :lol:
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Floid wrote:
lou_dias wrote:
The problem I have with Linux is that it's not as easy to use as Windows and is now as memory hungry.
The problem you have with Linux is that you're familiar with Windows...
True to a point.
I grew up coding on a C64 and 128. I used various 'ixes in highschool and college. Heck I bought a special cable for my 128D that connected to the RS-232 port and gave me a 25 pin standard serial connection. This allowed me to connect to UMass-Amherst's serial connection that was in every dorm room and I was able to edit and run code from my dorm room over a 9600BAUD connection via a VT100 term program. This was connecting to both VMS and SPARC mainframes...
Today, I just want to turn it on and have it work. None of this chmod, grep, makefiles, blah blah blah. I'm more than willing to PAY for something that just works and NO I don't have the time to make it myself.
All I'm willing to do from a command line these days is: ipconfig /all
AROS Live CD's just work. However, until I see a bounty for porting to MY platform of choice, I have yet to contribute.
Call me lazy, but I'm the consumer that without alot more of people like me willing to pay for stuff that just works, this market will never grow and prosper without. If I can't be bothered, then there is no way John Q. Public will ever look at AROS, OS4 and the like...and most certainly not Linux.
I've thrown my ideas out there before:
1) make a live CD for any/every platform
2) make applications run off of common intermediate code
3) all personal settings are saved to flash media
Now as long as there is a "live cd" for any given platform, I launch it and plug in my USB flash memory card and all my files are there and can download email from anyone's "system" be that "system" a Mac, Wintel, 360, PS3 or Wii.
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"At this point I see devices like the minimig to have far more of a future then any number of troikas, samanthas or whatevers. AmigaOS at this point is so far behind on so many levels that beyond retro computing, has no hope of being marketable to the general public, or even more mainstream geeks."
the_leander +1
Spot on!
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jorkany wrote:
...Or were you just referring to this particular thread and not AO in general? In that case, it's pretty much the same reason as why people gawk at auto accidents.
LOL!
...me too.
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@ thread,
To all the negative heads here.
I get so over all this neagtive stuff. "Who cares, it will never happen" "Don't care an you won't be dissapointed" etc etc. Seriously, there's so much more to life. If you like AMIGA OS, then great, enjoy the fact someone somewhere also likes it and is MAYBE making a newer version. Or. Don't.
Who cares. It doesn't change what you have now, but the fact that someone in the AMIGA company has decided to tell everyone that they are making a new version is pretty good proof that there is something happening.
know why I read this tripe? most of the time I skip though it now, but it's hadings like OS5 that draw me in cause there might be some cool info or something for me that I am interested in, instead I get an earload of cry baby whinge garbage. The Topic should have been AMIGA's OS 5 or even OS x (x = a number) myth or fact. That way I could have just not clicked on it LMAO
Put it this way, has anyone from the AMIGA company come out and said, We are not making AMIGA OS anymore, it's over, go home ? Didn't think so, so there is no proof it's not happening, sure it may take 10 years, so what, have they actually said that they are not making/developing AMIGA OS anymore?? Have Hyperion actually in writing said that they are not going to make OS4 even? No? well then, spread the word, make some hype and see what you can do to help move the situation forward a little faster. I know that's what I want to do. If there is nothing to do but wait, guess what, wait or go find something else. It's your choice. How about some positive threads. Info on OS5?? anyone got any inside info they can spread?
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The problem I have with Linux is that it's not as easy to use as Windows and is now as memory hungry.
Memory is so cheap these days that this excuse has long since left this earthly plane. Comfort requires RAM, it's as simple as that. As for 'not as easy to use': I think what you mean is that it is not Windows, and does things in a different way (thank god). Modern installations are perfectly usable, and just as easy, once you get the hang of things. It's when you begin to add funny hardware that Linux begins to show cracks and glitches.
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Hi Cymric, you have a very distinctive aviator. I've noticed it for many years now. What is with that cat? it looks terrified, as if its Master has been abusing it in unsavory ways.
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Well said shades, my thoughts exactly. I never get these people that spend their time bashing something they apparently don't care about and believe doesn't have a future. It's such a waste of time. If you care about something, care. If you don't, don't.. I'm not going to sit on a Windows Vista forum and constantly voice my oppinions about how much I dont like it and how much i'm not going to use it, it's completely pointless. Or any other forum for that matter.. If I did, i'd never get anything done!
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the best and worst thing about linux is that it is unix.
it is based on a very old multiuser system with xwindow server slapped on top.
so what you have is a very capable very robust very confusing hard to use mishmash of old and new tech. if you stick your head under the hood youd better know alot about unix, c scripts etc.
in other words it was never really designed to be a consumer os.
the best and worst thing about aros is that it is amiga
it is based on an old consumer system converted by hand to an archetecture it wasnt designed for.
so what you have is a very capable flexible tech maintained by volunteers and supported by other volunteers.
in other words be patient.
i wouldnt hold my breath waiting for os5. aros on the hand is continuing to progress we need more apps, browsers etc.
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Its neither. Myths usually have even a small percentage which could make it a true story.
OS5 has 0%.
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SHADES wrote:
..., but the fact that someone in the AMIGA company has decided to tell everyone that they are making a new version is pretty good proof that there is something happening.
No smiley? Please tell me you're not being serious.
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Hi Cymric, you have a very distinctive aviator. I've noticed it for many years now. What is with that cat? it looks terrified, as if its Master has been abusing it in unsavory ways.
There's nothing 'with' that cat, it's simply photographed in this particular pose. Of course, being a Cymric, it is tailless, but whether it is a stumpy or a rumpy is something I cannot tell from this picture. And no, I don't own a Cymric myself: while looking for a new handle I wanted a distinctive breed of cat. At first I pondered the Holy Birman (my absolute favourite) or Somali (equally clever as the Siamese, but with an in my opinion more acceptable body shape), and then settled on the Cymric. Not many people know this breed, so it's a bit exclusive.
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neon32 wrote:
Well said shades, my thoughts exactly. I never get these people that spend their time bashing something they apparently don't care about and believe doesn't have a future. It's such a waste of time. If you care about something, care. If you don't, don't.. I'm not going to sit on a Windows Vista forum and constantly voice my oppinions about how much I dont like it and how much i'm not going to use it, it's completely pointless. Or any other forum for that matter.. If I did, i'd never get anything done!
You'd take the time to put down someone else's "pointless" opinion, though.
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boing wrote:
First of all Alan's negativity and badmouthing of the AmigaOS sucks.
The Leander is being pretty much honest. Right now there is no new hardware to run OS4, that situation has existed for about 18 months now, and Hyperion doesnt seem to be doing alot about it. In addition, Amiga Inc claims they have bought the OS back, Hyperion claims they have not, and the one of the Wonder Twins says that they not anyone else owns the kernal of OS4. Can you explain how we should think of any of the above as positive?
Secondly, what, exactly, do we need Amiga Inc. for anyway? I doubt they have the money to mount a legal challenge against anybody who tried to infringe on their "rights". Maybe a little economic hardship would be all it would take to convince them to sell off whatever rights they do suposedly have.
They sue people if they infringe, do you believe that Hyperion won't get sued if they sell OS4 and dont pay the royalties to Amiga Inc? As for economic hardship, I'm not sure what more can be done to them. They were kicked out of there offices, everything auctioned off, they've lost 8 court cases (at least) for money that they have yet to pay out, and yet Bill McEwen was still "secretly" being paid by his boss as we found out on the most recent lawsuit involving the on again off again CEO of Amiga Inc Garry Hare.
Does Fleecy stll have a greencard?
Fleecy was deported years ago. He's been back in the UK for close to 4 years now.
-Tig
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You'd take the time to put down someone else's "pointless" opinion, though.
Yep, i totally see your point, and i saw that point when i was writing the reply. But there's a different intention behind my post and the other posts.
My response was in response to someone who goes into a thread to actively put something down that doesn't interest them yet doesn't impose anything on them.
It's like me walking down the street everynight, coming home from work and walking into a shop of a clothing brand i dont particularly like and shouting "You Suck!" and then walking out again. My response was in the perspective of someone who works in the shop and has to put up with it everyday.
Ok, probably not the best analogy but i hope you get what i mean.
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I don't know that linux is a 'great' alternative for AmigaOS, but it is certainly a usable one. I personally think its installation scheme (which seems to vary with every program you compile/install/whatever) is ridiculous, but when compared to the VERY clean (even compared to mac/winblows) system the Amiga used, it's no wonder.
Then again, I'm currently using FreeBSD 6.1 and that's no picnic either. But it still beats XP and DEFINITELY vista! Win2K is the only really tolerable OS they have made and they've gone downhill ever since...(M$)....
kevin
http://www.amigau.com
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NoFastMem wrote:
neon32 wrote:
Well said shades, my thoughts exactly. I never get these people that spend their time bashing something they apparently don't care about and believe doesn't have a future. It's such a waste of time. If you care about something, care. If you don't, don't.. I'm not going to sit on a Windows Vista forum and constantly voice my oppinions about how much I dont like it and how much i'm not going to use it, it's completely pointless. Or any other forum for that matter.. If I did, i'd never get anything done!
You'd take the time to put down someone else's "pointless" opinion, though.
LOL!
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In addition, Amiga Inc claims they have bought the OS back, Hyperion claims they have not, and the one of the Wonder Twins says that they not anyone else owns the kernal of OS4.
So how could it be OS4 when Amiga Inc doesn't own the OS' kernel? I thought the definition of an OS was the kernel with the support software around it? ie when you say Linux OS, your talking about the Linux kernel. X11 is not Linux, nor is a ton of other code that you find in a Linux distro.
Did the Friedens see the Amiga Inc's source code prior to writting their kernel? Wasn't that one of the reasons why so many called MOS pirated code in the first place? I wonder if Amiga Inc has the balls to issue a C&D to the Friedens.
Dammy
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amigau wrote:
I don't know that linux is a 'great' alternative for AmigaOS, but it is certainly a usable one. I personally think its installation scheme (which seems to vary with every program you compile/install/whatever) is ridiculous,
Depends on the distribution. apt is a perfectly good installation system and massively superior to anything the Amiga had.
The problem is that not all programs are packaged in the right format, but that's no different to Amiga programs that didn't have an installer script.
but when compared to the VERY clean (even compared to mac/winblows) system the Amiga used, it's no wonder.
You're kidding, right? No uninstaller, no proper compatibility checks, libraries being upgraded that may or may not disable other programs...
The AmigaOS Installer program was actually pretty weak.
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Hahaha, pretty funny! I think it's a joke!
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As others have stated, don't get your hopes up. Look at OS5 in the same way you would reports of Big Foot, chupacabra, Loch Ness Monster, alien abduction etc. If may be fascinating, but there is probably little chance of it every being proven in your lifetime. If it does you will be (pleasantly) suprised. If it doesn't you didn't waste any emotion.
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@SHADES
All the interest in the world won't make it happen. To many of the people watching at this point, there is nothing but disbelief until there is proof. Why? I'm sure if youv'e been watching for this decade +++ and you think about it you will know why. One empty announcement or lesser still just a hint after another. Some had good intentions, others did not.
Also look at the specific company we are talking about here. How many people rushed out and bought worthless dAmiga X86 boxes, Party Packs and other nonsense based on the announcements it would be needed to develope for the new upcoming OS4? Yes, OS4.
BTW: I can understand frustration of seeing so much negativity if you believe there something just around the corner. Speaking for myself I don't honestly think there is anything around the corner or for many years to come if ever. :-(
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Yep, i totally see your point, and i saw that point when i was writing the reply. But there's a different intention behind my post and the other posts.
Just my opinion but I think you may be seeing malicious intent where there is none, just honest opinion of a very bleak situation.
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i dont see this as a bleak situation anymore. i dont expect or care if os4 or os5 come out. i wouldnt give amiga inc any more money other than a possible new copy of amiga forever.
give me aros with a good browser and seemless uae or just integrated uae and ill be happy.
amiga inc has had tons of time and plenty of money. they gave us os3.5 and 3.9 they have nothing more to offer me.
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they gave us os3.5 and 3.9 they have nothing more to offer me.
3.5 was released unter the GateWay regime, and 3.9 was released so shortly after the Amino-coup that they had no other influence than damaging it be calling AmigaOS dead.
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i meant mostly the "official" amiga patent, trademark, etc owners.
amiga actually means something to the aros guys. it means enough to them that for years they have labored over aros and are finally seeing some fruits to their work. same thing with uae, winuae, etc. amiga and amigaos still means something to them
same with the peg guys and minimig etc. even with many of them they know they wont get any maney out of it. some dont even want any money out of it.
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amiga inc has had tons of time and plenty of money. they gave us os3.5 and 3.9 they have nothing more to offer me.
Actually, it was H&P who produced both of those. 3.5 was released during the Gateway days and 3.9 was so divorced of any Amiga Inc control they didn't even get any royalties for it.
Whether Amiga Inc ever had much money is debatable, but what they had they squandered and the only products they released were a farce. The so-called "Amiga Development Kit" anyone?
Let's not kid ourselves: they have given nothing to the community, unless it's a lesson on how not to conduct business. Judging by the way they handles other deals, I'd be surprised if they ever had any sort of written agreement with Hyperion, meaning that now we can have all sorts of conflicting claims over ownership and copyrights. I doubt anyone can release anything without being sued by one of the other parties.
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does anyone know if they get royalties for amiga forever?
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KThunder wrote:
does anyone know if they get royalties for amiga forever?
Amiga Forever is fully licensed but I have no idea if the license fee was a one-off or royalty based.
Either way, it won't represent significant amounts of income.
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dammy wrote:
In addition, Amiga Inc claims they have bought the OS back, Hyperion claims they have not, and the one of the Wonder Twins says that they not anyone else owns the kernal of OS4.
So how could it be OS4 when Amiga Inc doesn't own the OS' kernel? I thought the definition of an OS was the kernel with the support software around it? ie when you say Linux OS, your talking about the Linux kernel. X11 is not Linux, nor is a ton of other code that you find in a Linux distro.
Did the Friedens see the Amiga Inc's source code prior to writting their kernel? Wasn't that one of the reasons why so many called MOS pirated code in the first place? I wonder if Amiga Inc has the balls to issue a C&D to the Friedens.
Dammy
It's quite probable that AOS4 consists of a small lightweight kernel (probably the copyright of the Freidens), with the AmigaOS compatibility layer sitting above it... hang on that sounds a bit like MorphOS doesn't it? ;-)
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I have used 2-3 linux distributions so far and they seem similar in many ways, but the subtle diff's seem to trip you up most often.
I will agree that there can sometimes be 'surprises' vis. Amiga installation programs, BUT, compared to linux's 'freeform' approach (as you see stuff in usr/bin, /usr/sbin/, other places/, /root/, etc. etc. etc. - if there are rules, possibly only red hat or suse follows them) I still say it's a lot less complicated on the Amiga - at least I know there's only a few dirs that ever get stuff installed in them and where to look for that stuff - linux? not even.
FreeBSD seems to be somewhere in the middle - the installation(s) seem more uniform but I keep bumping up against weird root-only permissions issues that defy an su command and have to be changed by actually LOGGING in as root, etc. - in other words, almost as much hassle in some cases as WinBlows. No '70 reboots per install', but sometimes far more annoying than it should be.
To your point about compatibility checks, etc. I don't think the Amiga is any worse than Winblows for sure (although that situation seems to have improved of late despite the OS continuing to get slower and even more bloated on ever faster hardware - can you believe 'Worsta' is going to require ONE GB(!) to run well on a new machine? Jay Miner is rolling over in his grave on that one, to be sure.
kevin