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The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: SysAdmin on June 14, 2012, 08:27:32 PM

Title: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: SysAdmin on June 14, 2012, 08:27:32 PM
http://my-symbian.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=392155#392155
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: commodorejohn on June 14, 2012, 09:15:01 PM
Coming soon to your desktop and tablet!
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: SysAdmin on June 14, 2012, 09:28:12 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;696395
Coming soon to your desktop and tablet!

And your toilet!
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: persia on June 15, 2012, 02:30:54 PM
With Android and iOS out there isn't WM sort of late to the party?
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: hbarcellos on June 15, 2012, 02:38:14 PM
Quote from: persia;696471
With Android and iOS out there isn't WM sort of late to the party?

No. We're living 1984 again. iOS is the Mac and Microsoft will prevail again. Jobs cant return now.
Seeing M$ plans I already had that vision for quite a while. Recently several analysts are also supporting it.

In 1 year from now, you'll see more smartphones with Windows than with Android...
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: Duce on June 15, 2012, 02:44:44 PM
Quote from: persia;696471
With Android and iOS out there isn't WM sort of late to the party?


Very.  While it's a tolerable mobile OS to use, and it's gaining ground in emerging markets like China, no one in first world markets really has a use for it.  I got my Mother a W7 phone, she loves it - but it's also her first smartphone, and she's about 15 years behind in the tech department, heh.  She found my iPhone a bit too complex, in fact. They have been trying to market them to existing smartphone (ios and android) owners, and it's failed badly.

Sadly, the poor sales of W7 devices is really dragging Nokia down.  They had a loss of over 2 billion euros in the last 5 quarters and recently announced they are laying off 10,000 staff.

http://www.mb.com.ph/articles/362236/nokia-cuts-10000-more-jobs-losses-deepen

Nokia always made a great handset, hardware wise - but I can't help but feel they drove the nails in their own coffin by going with the MS mobile OS rather than Android.  At this rate, both them and RIM (Blackberry) will be at single digit market share in a matter of years.  Nokia still does well in feature phone markets, but that market is going away in a huge way.

Nokia smartphones have always been next to non existant in North America due to the fact they were rarely ever subsidized by the carriers.  No one was willing to pay $800 for an N9 when a new model iphone could be had for $300 with a 3 year contract.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: spirantho on June 15, 2012, 02:48:02 PM
Quote from: hbarcellos;696474

In 1 year from now, you'll see more smartphones with Windows than with Android...


I'm not a betting man but I'd put down several thousand dollars(1) that you're wrong.

There is no way that Windows phones (which are only really supported by Nokia, and aren't very good at that) will surpass Android and iOS now. It's an inferior product that doesn't have the marketing behind it, nor does it have the coolness factor or desirability. MS were a big player in the OS and office scene, but almost everything else they've tried they've been destroyed at (Microsoft Zune, anybody?)

(1) Zimbabwean dollars. Told you I wasn't a betting man.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: gertsy on June 15, 2012, 03:05:36 PM
XBOX, Server operating System, Email, RDBMS, Cloud based corporate services. I'd say hbarcellos is on a fairly safe bet. China, India & SE Asia are the emerging markets.  Microsoft aren't stupid. Once more and more people realise the only shop in town is the local store It will be all the shopkeepers fault 'cos for those kinds of people their actions are never their own fault. My guess is Android will outlast IOS because of that.  I have a bad feeling Apple will ride the iPhase into the ground just like Commodore did with amiga. It will be iBored by V5.
Guesture based interface anyone?
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: hbarcellos on June 15, 2012, 03:17:52 PM
And by XBOX, they mean TV. Instead of trying to build their own hardware like Apple. Can you imagine the cost of an Apple TV set in Brazil???

Take a look at this:

http://www.gsmarena.com/laugh_time_idc_says_wp_and_blackberry_will_overtake_ios-news-4357.php

Jobs was a game changer, but unable to keep-up on the long term.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: WolfToTheMoon on June 15, 2012, 05:28:18 PM
WP7 is my 2nd favorite mobile OS. The 1st place going to WebOS.

Android sucks, it's very fragmented and you're left to the mercy of individual manufacturers for updates and support.

Apple I have no interest in.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: persia on June 15, 2012, 05:43:23 PM
WIndows Phone 2016

(http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1105000/images/_1109692_phonebbc.jpg)


Quote from: hbarcellos;696482
And by XBOX, they mean TV. Instead of trying to build their own hardware like Apple. Can you imagine the cost of an Apple TV set in Brazil???

Take a look at this:

http://www.gsmarena.com/laugh_time_idc_says_wp_and_blackberry_will_overtake_ios-news-4357.php

Jobs was a game changer, but unable to keep-up on the long term.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: hbarcellos on June 15, 2012, 06:12:52 PM
Quote from: WolfToTheMoon;696486
WP7 is my 2nd favorite mobile OS. The 1st place going to WebOS.

Android sucks, it's very fragmented and you're left to the mercy of individual manufacturers for updates and support.

Apple I have no interest in.


I was a huge fan of Palm, but unfortunately, not a single WebOS device was available in my country. Hopefully, now that's supposedly open-source, my last hope is to expect some Chinese tablets with it.

By the way, take a look at this link:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/5/3062611/palm-webos-hp-inside-story-pre-postmortem

I found it very interesting.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: WolfToTheMoon on June 15, 2012, 06:17:12 PM
I wonder if there will be x86 smartphones running the desktop Win 8 version?

That would get my juices running. Thanks to the dual GUIs, one could use it as both a smartphone or hook it up to an external monitor and keyboard and pretty much run anything you want.

With Intel Medfield being very competitive with A9 Cortex I question the need for an ARM Win 8 version. What's the point, really... even if you could theorize and say that an ARM powered tablet could be cheaper, I don't think it will be cheap enough when you factor in the fact there wont be much software to run.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: hbarcellos on June 15, 2012, 06:58:56 PM
I'm not sure. They have a different approach to tablets, pcs and phones.
They say, tablets are pcs and smartphones are smartphones.
So, It's windows 8 for tablet&PC (those notebooks with detachable touch screen) and windows 8 phone for smartphones.

But, take a look at this:
http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/05/microsoft-smartglass-hands-on/

I think this is what you want.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: SysAdmin on June 15, 2012, 07:04:23 PM
Quote from: hbarcellos;696492
I was a huge fan of Palm, but unfortunately, not a single WebOS device was available in my country. Hopefully, now that's supposedly open-source, my last hope is to expect some Chinese tablets with it.
 
By the way, take a look at this link:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/5/3062611/palm-webos-hp-inside-story-pre-postmortem
 
I found it very interesting.

 
Thanks for the link. A long but great read. What a sad story, I'm not sure why you are putting your hopes in yet another dead platform (Windows Phone). Microsoft's track record in phones is one of the worst.
 
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/cringelys-right-windows-mobile-is-dead/2848
 
http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/30/microsoft-kin-is-dead/
 
Add in the Metro interface which is something everyone loves to hate and you have a recipe for the next dead phone platform megadrama.
 
Anyone buying a Windows Phone is just wasting their money. They are even killing off version 7.x for 8, no upgrade path at all.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: WolfToTheMoon on June 15, 2012, 07:21:10 PM
Quote from: hbarcellos;696497
I'm not sure. They have a different approach to tablets, pcs and phones.
They say, tablets are pcs and smartphones are smartphones.
So, It's windows 8 for tablet&PC (those notebooks with detachable touch screen) and windows 8 phone for smartphones.

But, take a look at this:
http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/05/microsoft-smartglass-hands-on/

I think this is what you want.


Microsoft will not do it, but someone else might. A few years ago a company from Asia made an XP phone, a huge brick of a device. Now with Medfield and future mobile CPUs from Intel or even AMD, it should be possible to build a very nice smartphone running a desktop Win version(thanks to Metro it would function very nice even as touch only device). And if Intel would implement it's Wi-Di in future SoCs... Voila - a perfect smartphone
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: runequester on June 15, 2012, 07:32:41 PM
Android is close to cracking a million activations a day. It's hard to fathom how windows mobile is going to overtake that.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: hbarcellos on June 15, 2012, 07:38:50 PM
Quote from: runequester;696500
Android is close to cracking a million activations a day. It's hard to fathom how windows mobile is going to overtake that.


How many examples do you need to understand that past performance does not guarantee future results?
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: WolfToTheMoon on June 15, 2012, 08:00:12 PM
Quote from: runequester;696500
Android is close to cracking a million activations a day. It's hard to fathom how windows mobile is going to overtake that.



I think this is the peak of Android market performance that we'll see.

I bought one of them... now I'd like to exchange it for Lumia 900. It's just brilliant simplicity. And I very much like the Metro GUI on smartphones... I'll wait for an HD screen Nokia and jump ship...
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: hbarcellos on June 15, 2012, 08:07:34 PM
I was willing to get a Lumia 900 here as well, but, two things are still preventing me:
* Not available here (Damn Country)
* Will probably be outdated as soon as windows phone 8 comes out

After a while, I think we'll have a lot of models from several different manufacters.
Personally I would be interested in a Galaxy SIII HW or a Galaxy Note HW or a Nokia Lumia X 5" all running Windows Mobile.

Besides all that, Microsoft tools for developers are the best ones among them all, being XCode 2nd and very far away: Android...
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: Digiman on June 15, 2012, 08:18:43 PM
Quote from: persia;696471
With Android and iOS out there isn't WM sort of late to the party?


They were 10 years late to the party with win95 so maybe they think it doesn't matter? lol
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: B00tDisk on June 15, 2012, 10:40:19 PM
I dig Windows7 just fine but man you can have my HTC Optimus V 4g when you pry it from my cold, dead, 3d-imaged hands! :)
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: runequester on June 16, 2012, 12:47:03 AM
Quote from: hbarcellos;696501
How many examples do you need to understand that past performance does not guarantee future results?

It doesn't guarantee anything, but it's a decent indicator.
 

It depends on what deals are made with carriers as well, at least here in the US. I hear very little demand on a day to day basis from people wanting windows mobile phones. The people who want specific devices are almost universally asking for android and iphone.
 
Anecdotal evidence and all. It'll be fun to watch in the next few months
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: partycentralpartygirl on June 16, 2012, 01:09:41 AM
I am sheepish to admit on a Miggy site but I will be buying a x86 tablet as soon as I can get one. It will be very nice to be able to walk around my store scanning items with a scanner and having my inventory management system add them to an order. I can do this with a netbook, but a small tablet would be easier to manage. It would need to be a x86 tablet as the software runs on the desktop. I imagine once Win8 tablets hit the $99-$199 price point the WalMart crowd will snap them up and they will make impressive sales numbers.

As for smartphone usage, I may buy the Nokia when it gets a better screen and Win8. I think IOS is too locked down, and Android is a bit too free locked down (apps can do whatever they want) Don't get me wrong I love my new Samsung Android phone (never thought I would call something TOO OPEN) it is a great improvement over my previous iPhone4 but I find it silly I need to install programs to suspend background services/autokill stuff so that I have acceptable battery life. I may be just a bit too picky though.

I have to see Win8 before I make any judgement on it. It might be rubbish for all I know. If I had to recommend a smartphone to my parents I would tell them that the Nokia is great for their needs. I will never buy another Apple product after a bad experience with them in regards to my iPhone so as far as I'm concerned there are only 2 platforms, the upcoming Win8 & Android. Right now I made my choice to get an Android device, in a year or so when I upgrade I will make a choice between 'droid and Win8.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: gertsy on June 16, 2012, 01:58:48 AM
Quote from: runequester;696500
Android is close to cracking a million activations a day. It's hard to fathom how windows mobile is going to overtake that.


Agree. But they will all be a million dumpers a day in 2 years time and something new will be the flavor. The longer you use an os/interface the more little issues you have with it. By the 2nd or third version your allegance wanes.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: runequester on June 16, 2012, 06:28:00 AM
yeah, the turn over in these gadgets is quite astounding.

A few questions I am not aware of:

What manufacturers are making windows phones? All of them? Some? A few? (Other than Nokia I mean)

What is the impression of Nokias financial state? Are they out of the woods, or is it still dicey?
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: psxphill on June 16, 2012, 09:43:40 AM
Quote from: runequester;696522
I hear very little demand on a day to day basis from people wanting windows mobile phones. The people who want specific devices are almost universally asking for android and iphone.

And a little while ago everyone wanted blackberry's.
Microsoft are still preparing, it usually takes them a while to spin up.
 
They first got into the games industry with the Dreamcast by offering Windows CE as a platform for games. It wasn't as good as the native Sega development kit, but a few games were produced using it. Then came the Xbox, it was ridiculed for it's size & they didn't make any money but with determination they got the brand known. Now with the 360 I believe they are actually making money.
 
Windows had a similar gestation period. The NT project was always going to be the future, the 9x versions were stopgap to keep money rolling in. NT4 was the first user friendly one, 2000 was the first stable one, XP was the first where you could get drivers. Before XP it was tricky to decide which version to run, afterwards it became a simple choice.
 
I'm not saying Microsoft will succeed, but based on the past there is no reason why what they are doing can't work. It takes time to build momentum and although I won't be buying one right now, it will be interesting to see how it pans out.
 
I won't be buying an iphone either, a mid level android phone is good enough for me. However Microsoft have a knack at making things affordable and pretty good (given enough time).
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: Lando on June 16, 2012, 09:53:17 AM
Quote from: hbarcellos;696474
No. We're living 1984 again. iOS is the Mac and Microsoft will prevail again. Jobs cant return now.
Seeing M$ plans I already had that vision for quite a while. Recently several analysts are also supporting it.

In 1 year from now, you'll see more smartphones with Windows than with Android...


Sarcasm or stupidity? I can't decide.

Anyway, MS plans are nowhere, which is exactly where they're going.  Of course there won't be more phones with Windows than Android in 1 year, nor in 2 years, not even in 5 years.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: hooligan on June 16, 2012, 10:52:21 AM
20. Alarm clock cannot work when phone is turned off.

Is this a joke. Why would anyone keep their phones on at night.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: tribz on June 16, 2012, 11:21:22 AM
I must be one of those odd people that just puts my phone on silent when I go to bed!
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: hooligan on June 16, 2012, 11:34:49 AM
Quote from: tribz;696567
I must be one of those odd people that just puts my phone on silent when I go to bed!


Why would anyone do that. Isn't it simpler to turn it off. Saves batterys life also.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: tribz on June 16, 2012, 11:37:58 AM
In case of an emergancy, do I want to wait 1 minute for it to boot up or just be able to dial a number straight away.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: persia on June 16, 2012, 12:35:34 PM
Metro seems to be aimed at ARM tablets which are cheaper to produce and run longer.  My friends inside M$ hint at a tablet version of Office, like Apple do with iWork, that is both ARM and X86. Metro is processor independent, why would you even think of running a desktop application on a tablet or heaven forfend, a phone?


Quote from: WolfToTheMoon;696493
I wonder if there will be x86 smartphones running the desktop Win 8 version?

That would get my juices running. Thanks to the dual GUIs, one could use it as both a smartphone or hook it up to an external monitor and keyboard and pretty much run anything you want.

With Intel Medfield being very competitive with A9 Cortex I question the need for an ARM Win 8 version. What's the point, really... even if you could theorize and say that an ARM powered tablet could be cheaper, I don't think it will be cheap enough when you factor in the fact there wont be much software to run.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: hbarcellos on June 16, 2012, 12:42:22 PM
Quote from: Lando;696562
Sarcasm or stupidity? I can't decide.

Anyway, MS plans are nowhere, which is exactly where they're going.  Of course there won't be more phones with Windows than Android in 1 year, nor in 2 years, not even in 5 years.


Can you base your arguments on something before calling me stupid?
For me, a stupid person is the one who can't see that there are several other views, interpretations and analysis of the same data with different conclusions.
Your analysis is childish and superficial.

And, if you want to call me stupid again, make sure to, at least, skype me in a Video Call and say it looking at me.
Here's my ID: hbarcellos
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: WolfToTheMoon on June 16, 2012, 12:54:30 PM
Quote from: persia;696574
Metro is processor independent, why would you even think of running a desktop application on a tablet or heaven forfend, a phone?


I wouldn't run it on smartphone

lets say we have a hypothetical x86 smartphone running desktop Win 8

in smartphone mode - Only Metro GUI  exposed, runs only Metro compatible apps just like any current WP 7.X smartphone

Then I come home and hook it up on a monitor or big screen TV... or have a presentation to make at work- then it shifts into classic Win desktop mode and runs desktop apps on big screen.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: persia on June 16, 2012, 01:48:51 PM
But if you have an ARM based tablet version of Office running on an ARM based Tablet Windows or Phone, why would you even care that the processor isn't X86?  M$ is cutting the thread tieing it to the Intel/AMD world.  If you can easily cross compile between Metro ARM and Metro X86, then you no longer have a developer/software issue.

The reason M$ failed in the tablet market despite having a 10 year lead was precisely because three people enjoy running desktop apps on a tablet and those three work for Microsoft.  Mobile Office will be a step towards correcting that mistake.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: WolfToTheMoon on June 16, 2012, 02:00:56 PM
Quote from: persia;696578
But if you have an ARM based tablet version of Office running on an ARM based Tablet Windows or Phone, why would you even care that the processor isn't X86?  M$ is cutting the thread tieing it to the Intel/AMD world.  If you can easily cross compile between Metro ARM and Metro X86, then you no longer have a developer/software issue.

The reason M$ failed in the tablet market despite having a 10 year lead was precisely because three people enjoy running desktop apps on a tablet and those three work for Microsoft.  Mobile Office will be a step towards correcting that mistake.


Office is just one application. There are numerous others that are not likely to get an ARM port, for various reasons.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: Duce on June 16, 2012, 02:07:49 PM
You cannot simply install any old Windows program onto the ARM version of Windows 8 (W8 RT) - the Win 8 RT platform (RT being the ARM based version of Win 8) is locked down in a fashion that compares to the Apple devices.

You cannot simply buy Photoshop and install it on the W8 ARM version, even if it did work.  You're stuck with the Windows store model, though I'm sure it won't take users long to figure out how to sideload apps.

W8 RT also does not support many of the Windows enterprise offerings, like Active Directory.  It'll be a complete bust in regards to the professional market, and the x86 W8 tablets will have terrible (in comparison to other tablets like the ipad) battery life just like the current W7 ones do.  

I tried a friends Samsung tablet today, which he's running W8 on.  It shipped initially with Win 7, and putting W8 on it made the experience better for usability, but the thing is still a complete pig weight and battery power wise.

Keep your eyes open, it's rumored MS is debuting a W8 RT tablet or two at their press event on Monday.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: kedawa on June 16, 2012, 04:33:37 PM
For most people, it doesn't really matter what OS their phone is running.  As long as it makes and receives phone calls and texts, they just don't care.  Sooner or later those people will be buying smartphones because feature phones are on the way out.
WP* will suit them just as well as iOS or Android.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: slaapliedje on June 16, 2012, 07:45:24 PM
Being a fan of a dying (dead?) platform like the Amiga, I went and bought another dying platform!  I absolutely love my Nokia N9 and the N900 before it.  I figure at this point I'm going to be using either of them until the day I die.

I am going to be installing Baldur's Gate (via GemRB) on my N900 right now.  Pretty sure you'll never be able to do that on a Windows phone (they ported it to Android and iOS though, if I recall correctly).  But then without a stylus or keyboard, I don't see it being too terribly pleasant to play.

Personally I think Windows Phone was bound to fail and that the whole Microsoft / Nokia deal was simply so Microsoft could weaken Nokia, buy them out, and have all their patents.  At that point all hell is going to break loose!

slaapliedje
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: partycentralpartygirl on June 16, 2012, 08:57:31 PM
Quote from: kedawa;696588
For most people, it doesn't really matter what OS their phone is running.  As long as it makes and receives phone calls and texts, they just don't care.  Sooner or later those people will be buying smartphones because feature phones are on the way out.
WP* will suit them just as well as iOS or Android.


Yeah that's the thing. At the moment mostly only tech savvy people have smartphones, they care about Apple (IOS) or they don't (Android)

When everyone with basic phones goes to get a new phone they will go with a simple smartphone that is cheap. I assume that this is the market MS is going for.

When Mom & Dad go shopping for a tablet for junior this Christmas they will grab the $199 Walmart tablet running Windows because that's the computer they have at home. Perhaps I will bump this thread in December because this is exactly what is going to happen.

The vast majority of people do not give a crap what OS their stuff is, just that it goes on Facebook and can play Angry Birds.

MS should just bundle Angry Birds with the OS and it will sell a trillion copies a second to the soccer mom's shopping at WalMart. (not a trillion) I'm sure that Bill can slap out a Angry Birds clone in a weekend in basic. They should just get Bill to do it.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: commodorejohn on June 16, 2012, 09:15:35 PM
I honestly don't think feature phones are going away any time soon; there's a lot of people out there (myself included) who don't need or want a smartphone and are entirely satisfied with a cheaper flip-phone that places and receives calls and (if we want to get really advanced) stores phone numbers. On a smartphone, that capability is always at least one extra click away (unless they just start putting a number pad on the home screen.) That's going to confuse Granny and irritate the hell out of the rest of us, especially considering we'd be paying extra for the privilege of putting more steps between us and our goal.

Smartphones are no longer a luxury item, so it's not like people who don't have one can't afford one (generally speaking.) Therefore, I can't see any reason that people who don't have one are suddenly going to get one, unless every manufacturer out there can get all the others to agree to suddenly stop producing the phones that are still selling in hopes of forcing people to upgrade to more expensive phones - and all it takes is one manufacturer breaking that agreement to bring the whole thing crashing down and leave them right where they are now, selling iOS and Android phones to the people who want them and feature phones to everybody else.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: kedawa on June 16, 2012, 10:53:47 PM
I agree that many people, myself included, don't need or want smartphones, but when it comes to carrier-subsidized phones, feature phones are getting pushed out even at the very low end.  I'm going to be renewing my contract at the end of summer, and more than half of the phones available for talk&text(i.e. no data plan) are low-end smartphones.  The few feature phones that are still offered are old models and probably old stock.  There are no new feature phones being offered at all.
When given the choice between paying nothing for a $70 phone, or paying nothing for a $300 smartphone, most people will choose the latter, even if it's more tech than they need.

Quote from: slaapliedje;696596
Being a fan of a dying (dead?) platform like the Amiga, I went and bought another dying platform!  I absolutely love my Nokia N9 and the N900 before it.  I figure at this point I'm going to be using either of them until the day I die.

I am going to be installing Baldur's Gate (via GemRB) on my N900 right now.  Pretty sure you'll never be able to do that on a Windows phone (they ported it to Android and iOS though, if I recall correctly).  But then without a stylus or keyboard, I don't see it being too terribly pleasant to play.

Personally I think Windows Phone was bound to fail and that the whole Microsoft / Nokia deal was simply so Microsoft could weaken Nokia, buy them out, and have all their patents.  At that point all hell is going to break loose!

slaapliedje


Isn't there an Android port for one of the Nokia devices you mentioned?  I know that isn't what you bought it for, but it's nice to have that option just in case.  Dual booting might be an option.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: runequester on June 17, 2012, 03:26:03 AM
yeah, its sort of interesting to see how they've pushed smart phones down into the hundred dollar range, which used to be for decent feature phones.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: slaapliedje on June 17, 2012, 01:59:54 PM
Quote from: kedawa;696602
Isn't there an Android port for one of the Nokia devices you mentioned?  I know that isn't what you bought it for, but it's nice to have that option just in case.  Dual booting might be an option.

Yeah, both of them have a semi-working port of Ice Cream Sandwich.  Due to some of the few closed off bits, they haven't quite gotten calls to work.  So while I could run Android software when dual-booted, I couldn't make or receive calls.

Hopefully the OpenMobile's ACL gets released (they say they are working on it) and then I could run all the Linux stuff, Qt stuff, AND the Android software.  Without actually having to run Android, which I don't really like.

It'd be like having an Amiga that runs all the Windows software :D  Then again, I think an Amiga that did that would probably require 4GB of ram or more as well.

Then again, being able to use a quick OS that is more open, and tweakable (my N9 came with grep!) is far more important to me than all the applications.  

slaapliedje
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: hbarcellos on June 19, 2012, 01:47:56 PM
Well, I was even called "Stupid", right?
Looks like more analysts are becoming "Stupid". Even Gizmodo.

http://gizmodo.com/5919428/what-is-the-microsoft-surface
http://gizmodo.com/5919459/hands-on-with-microsoft-surface-for-windows-rt

Quote
So. Yes. It's awesome. It's going to be fantastic. Google had better step things up at IO, because this Windows RT tablet is far more impressive than any shipping Android tablet I've ever seen. It's a clear rival to the iPad. Or at least, so it seems. We'll see. Can't wait for Fall.

Sooo, stupid!!!

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It's a super solid device and if Microsoft can deliver what it demoed, the iPad finally has a real competitor and Android has a big ******* problem.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: hbarcellos on June 19, 2012, 02:28:30 PM
ohhh, not to mention that the Ivy Bridge version might run Winuae. Which you could use with your finger.

I would strongly suggest MorphOS and AROS team to focus on porting their systems (full support including wifi) to one of the two versions of the tablet...
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: Duce on June 19, 2012, 02:52:40 PM
People also called the Zune, the Kin, and various other MS hardware devices "fantastic" and "revolutionary", lol.  Listening to tech bloggers give praise to devices and actually putting stock into it is absolutely insane.  I lost interest in the MS press event today when the words "also can use a touch pen/stylus!".  These are the same people that claimed the Newton would revolutionize the free world.

We'll have to wait and see if the new windows tablets gains any foothold in the modern market - I suspect it's simply too little, too late.  The x86 ones will cost as much as an Ultrabook, the Win 8 RT ones will be crippled for enterprise use (no AD support, among other things).

Windows tablets have not gained any ground at all, even pre iPad days they were entirely shunned by people.  I simply cannot see them gaining much ground in this age where everyone has a tablet out - the price point on the ones that can actually do "full" computing tasks is simply too high.  Windows XP tablet edition was released TEN years ago, and people rejected it in a major way.

I do have to admit though, that keyboard/cover deal is a pretty unique idea, but in the same breath, if I'm using something that is best used with a keyboard, I'll get an ultrabook or Air to start with.  If I had to add a bluetooth keyboard to my iPad to get best usage out of it, I would have just bought a full fledged laptop.  

I simply don't see what the MS tablets are offering that's terribly new, or otherwise worth considering changing over from another current tablet offering.  Have been able to buy Windows tablets at any best buy for 10 years and people avoided them like grim death.  And yes, I have used Windows 8 on a modern x86 tablet.  It sucked.  Bad.

Curious to see what the real world battery life is on the Ivybridge tablets - if it's crappy they are dead in the water already.  The tablet market is dominated by tablets that have no probs getting 10+ hours per full charge, so hopefully the MS ones will compare.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: psxphill on June 19, 2012, 03:53:17 PM
Quote from: Duce;696989
Curious to see what the real world battery life is on the Ivybridge tablets - if it's crappy they are dead in the water already. The tablet market is dominated by tablets that have no probs getting 10+ hours per full charge, so hopefully the MS ones will compare.

Battery life is not necessarily that relevant with wireless charging, most people don't use a tablet for 10+ hours at a time. People buy i5 laptops that don't last that long.
 
The past has shown that people will accept a product that is inferior in some respects if it is superior in others. In some cases the superiority is only better marketing.
 
I wouldn't buy an ipad, but I might buy one of these. It depends on the price and how robust it is.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: commodorejohn on June 19, 2012, 05:35:11 PM
Quote from: hbarcellos;696984
ohhh, not to mention that the Ivy Bridge version might run Winuae. Which you could use with your finger.
Hahaha, are you serious. Emulate a computer with a full keyboard, mouse, and joystick, on a touch screen? Tablets and smartphones suck bad enough for emulating simple game consoles (it's one of the chief complaints I hear even from my tablet-evangelist coworkers.) It's not like there's something magical about Ivy Bridge that's going to make it more usable than it is on Android.

Quote from: Duce;696989
People also called the Zune, the Kin, and various other MS hardware devices "fantastic" and "revolutionary", lol. Listening to tech bloggers give praise to devices and actually putting stock into it is absolutely insane. I lost interest in the MS press event today when the words "also can use a touch pen/stylus!". These are the same people that claimed the Newton would revolutionize the free world.
Not to mention the same people that were drooling over Microsoft's early ideas of OMG SOME DAY YOU CAN HAVE A TABLE THAT'S A COMPUTER, or that stupid kinetic desktop demo where having your icons bump into each other and knock each other over was somehow revolutionary. Sound judges of practical value, they ain't.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: hbarcellos on June 19, 2012, 06:28:36 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;697013
Hahaha, are you serious. Emulate a computer with a full keyboard, mouse, and joystick, on a touch screen? Tablets and smartphones suck bad enough for emulating simple game consoles (it's one of the chief complaints I hear even from my tablet-evangelist coworkers.) It's not like there's something magical about Ivy Bridge that's going to make it more usable than it is on Android.


Using Workbench emulated with Winuae with a touch screen could be cool.
I agree with the touch controls for games that were not designed for it.
Floating d-pads & buttons are really horrible. Speedball II at the iPhone is kind-of-cool, but...

Absolutely nothing related with Windows vs Android.

and, for your information, I don't even like Laptops! I'm a desktop guy: Big Box, Big Monitors, Large Keyboard, Mouse and etc...

...But I can see myself using that surface over iPads. Never considered an Android tablet.
I have my Desktop and several laptops to play with different operating systems.

For productivity, nothing beats Windows.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: spirantho on June 19, 2012, 08:09:00 PM
I read the Gizmodo "review". At first I thought it was just more MS sycophancy, then I read this:
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But the Surface's cover also doubles as a full, extremely thin keyboard and multitouch trackpad, whereas the iPad's is just... a cover. This is a brilliant move on Microsoft's part—one of the most clever things it's ever squeezed out, and something that instantly makes Surface one of the most exciting devices we've eyed in some time.


If the fact that it has a cover with a keyboard built in is the most exciting thing in the world, ever to them, then they're obviously not interested in the same things as I am.

Forget battery life, forget power and compatibility, you can forget about the display, the smoothness of the OS - the point is it has a keyboard in the cover.

Obviously their list of priorities is different to mine.

Plus I seem to remember Gizmodo always tend to wax lyrical about MS products don't they?

Personally, I'll stick to non-MS devices if they're better. Yes - even if they don't have a keyboard built into the cover.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: partycentralpartygirl on June 19, 2012, 08:28:43 PM
Quote from: spirantho;697031
I read the Gizmodo "review". At first I thought it was just more MS sycophancy, then I read this:


If the fact that it has a cover with a keyboard built in is the most exciting thing in the world, ever to them, then they're obviously not interested in the same things as I am.

Forget battery life, forget power and compatibility, you can forget about the display, the smoothness of the OS - the point is it has a keyboard in the cover.

Obviously their list of priorities is different to mine.

Plus I seem to remember Gizmodo always tend to wax lyrical about MS products don't they?

Personally, I'll stick to non-MS devices if they're better. Yes - even if they don't have a keyboard built into the cover.



FWIW as far as I know the Metro interface is a clean sheet design is it not?

Therefore it will likely be much faster than IOS and Android as there is no BSD or Linux baggage to lug around.

The Nokia Win7.5 OS feels like the fastest OS on the planet. I would have bought that instead of my Samsung had there been the ability to upgrade to Win8. I think that in terms of usability and speed they have taken this into account.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: hbarcellos on June 19, 2012, 09:27:45 PM
Not to mention that developer support was always one of Microsoft's strongest points.
Just compare Visual Studio, XNA and etc... with XCODE. Not to mention all the JAVA (yuck) Android stuff.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: runequester on June 19, 2012, 10:29:11 PM
At least the competition will be interesting to watch :) Who can claim the elusive wealthy urban hipster demographic?
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: Duce on June 19, 2012, 10:36:04 PM
Curious how many of the people that are excited about these things, how many have actually used Windows 8, either on a traditional machine or on a x86 tablet?  You can download the RC now and try it, absolutely free, right?  Takes a few minutes to setup, and works just fine on any VM out there.  The release version won't be much different than the current version.

It's an unmitigated disaster, a complete hybrid bastard child of an OS that has you flopping between desktop and tile mode, doing neither particularly well in the combination it's presented to the user in.  In the current incarnation it's a complete hybrid, you cannot even really force it to solely run in traditional desktop GUI form.  Yes, they actually removed the registry hacks and other ways that people had found to force it into Desktop mode in the public beta version, in the latest release.

There are some very valid improvements to the Win 8 *desktop* portion of the OS, but it's essentially (the desktop portion) Windows 7 and even MS will tell you that.  The Metro UI is the thing they are really trying to hype people up for on this one, and it's simply awful to use for a desktop system.  Does it work ok on a tablet?  Sure, it does - but it's (Win 8 x86) not being marketed as solely a tablet OS.  It stinks on desktops, just like iOS would stink on a Mac desktop, but you have the added insult of knowing W8 does have a full Desktop experience in there somewhere, but it's one you can't either pick or choose to run wholly, it's just offered to you in hybrid ways.  I hope they clue in and make the Metro stuff entirely optional, but indications at the moment are that they won't.  I find that staggering, and I also believe Win 8 will go down in history as the worst/least popular MS OS since Windows ME, lol.

This is not a matter of people not accepting that computers are progressing to more and more simple interfaces, similar to tablet OS's.  They are going more and more to tablet UI types all the time, and I don't deny that.  But MS thinking people are going to be productive on a traditional desktop mouse and keyboard system with this Metro UI is just absolutely laughable if you even spend a brief amount of time using Win 8.

I hope they improve it before release, but as it sits now it comes off as a complete bodge job, completely unwieldy to use as a desktop OS.  The tablet, or Metro side of the OS is usable - but we're also in a world of the iPad and decent ICS Android tablets.  I've used a modern x86 tablet with Windows 8 recently, and found no compelling reason why ANYONE would want one, even if it was half the price (Samsung Slate, 64GB, with W8 RC on it - a $1300 tablet).  Who is going to spend that kind of money on a tablet that offers a third of the battery life that a competing product does?  Heck, even the best of the current Windows tablets (IMHO), the Asus Eee Slate gets under *TWO* hours battery life under load, when an iPad gets near *NINE* hours under the same circumstances.  It's a portable device, battery life is a major factor here.  When a laptop can offer more battery life than these things, why on earth would you even consider a tablet?

I'm sure some people will gobble up the Windows 8 tablets.  For some, assuming they get the battery life better on them, they might be an ideal solution, at least in the x86 models, but it'll all come down to cost, IMHO.
Win 8 RT is simply too gimped for any serious, professional enterprise use.
Unless they are significantly cheaper than a low end Ultrabook, I simply don't see them flying off the shelves, and I found the experience of using one to be completely useless and frustrating.  But hey, they are offering an add on touch pen for it, just like your Palm Pilot had!  :laugh1:
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: Duce on June 19, 2012, 10:52:42 PM
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9228247/Microsoft_s_Surface_tablet_no_threat_to_Apple_s_iPad?taxonomyId=12

Bear in mind Office for the iPad is also on the way.  If I am buying a tablet to run Office on, and the iPad (10 hours battery life) gets Office, why in God's name would one buy one of the heavier, hotter, louder Win 8 (3-4 hours battery life for x86 models) ones, lol?

Monday's press release was a complete mind bender from MS, and I fail to see how the "Well, it will run Office!" is a selling point when it's already a well known fact MS has working versions of Office for iPad.  They are currently sitting on the release of it, and if my gut is right on this one, have it as a back up plan if adoption of these new Surface tablet machines is low.  MS can, and will - make a small fortune on Office for iPad.  To NOT release Office for iPad would be one of the biggest fumbles MS could ever do.

Many people have moral objections to Apple products like the iPad, and that's entirely fair and valid.  But MS is now entering the market to take on the iPad head on, and the two products simply aren't comparable.  MS is bringing a knife to a gunfight.

MS, other than in regards to input devices (mice/keyboards) and consoles, has traditionally tanked every single time they have tried hardware.  Zune.  Kin.  UMPC.  Mira.  Surface table.  Etc...
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: partycentralpartygirl on June 19, 2012, 11:19:05 PM
Quote from: hbarcellos;697041
Not to mention that developer support was always one of Microsoft's strongest points.
Just compare Visual Studio, XNA and etc... with XCODE. Not to mention all the JAVA (yuck) Android stuff.

Yes the performance of Android apps is laughable. A 166mhz Pentium has better graphics capabilities. You pretty much need at least an A8 to be able to run apps at full speed. Look at the ARM11 based Pi running Doom3. Don't think you will get Doom3 running on a Arm Tablet at a similar framerate.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: hbarcellos on June 19, 2012, 11:21:07 PM
Duce, as Voltaire once said,
Quote
"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Let's wait a couple of years, and, by the time MorphOS get Wifi support on the Powerbook, we'll see who was right about it.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: hbarcellos on June 19, 2012, 11:31:16 PM
Duce, as Voltaire once said,
Quote
"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."


Let's wait a couple of years, and, by the time MorphOS get Wifi support on the Powerbook, we'll see who was right about it.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: psxphill on June 20, 2012, 12:38:07 AM
Quote from: Duce;697047
Curious how many of the people that are excited about these things, how many have actually used Windows 8, either on a traditional machine or on a x86 tablet? You can download the RC now and try it, absolutely free, right? Takes a few minutes to setup, and works just fine on any VM out there. The release version won't be much different than the current version.
 
It's an unmitigated disaster

What is the point in suggesting people download it if you're going to tell us what we have to think about it? I don't know why Microsoft just didn't ask you to test it and save everyone elses time.
 
I actually quite like it and I've so far only installed it on my netbook.
 
And you have no idea how different the release version will be.
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: Iggy on June 20, 2012, 12:41:44 AM
Windows Phone,
Windows CE,
 
Let's hope they both go the way of the Dodo once Windows 8 is released (cause they truely doth sucketh).
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: commodorejohn on June 20, 2012, 12:56:52 AM
Quote from: psxphill;697065
And you have no idea how different the release version will be.
We're how close to release, now? And they've already done two preview releases, so it's not like they haven't had ample time to get the message that nobody wants this, and they've just announced their new tablet for their new tablet OS. Do you really think that between now and (supposedly late July) they're suddenly going to reverse their stance and start listening to the naysayers?
Title: Re: 101 reasons to love Windows Phone
Post by: Duce on June 20, 2012, 04:00:19 AM
Phil - they have told the media, told developers to expect very few changes in the RTM version from what it is now.  They have said it repeatedly.  Authors writing books and articles on Windows 8 have been told they will be fairly safe to finish up their writing now, as the end retail product isn't far off, as not many significant changes will be coming.

I'm not telling anyone what to think, if you like it, I'm glad for you.  For every one person that can make any sense of it, there's a heck of a lot of the rest of the population that find it to be a jumbled ball of nonsensical mess.  If you like it, great - in the end, it's just a preference thing.  

The concerns about W8 on tablets go a little deeper - they are trying to sell Windows 8 RT tablets as enterprise devices, knowing full well they do *not* support many things that would be required of them in a MS enterprise network (like AD).  I find that to be shady as hell.  But hey, they offer something called "Management Lite", which gives the end user the ability to add their own apps to their devices, taking the point out of AD networks entirely.  Active Directory is ubiquitous in large networks - support should be mandatory.  Full support, not just SSP and RSD.  If it's a Windows device, admins need to be able to do their jobs via methods already existing.

If I may ask though - is it a good enough product, a fresh enough concept that you are willing to shell out money to buy, say the retail boxed versions to put on your own personal machines?  Is it that good of an OS that you will pay $100+ to put Windows 8 your current machines?

That's always been my question, whether people love or hate it, MS *are* going to be shipping it on all new OEM machines soon.  It *will* be in widespread usage not far down the road.  Are users going to be howling at MS, demanding downgrades to Win 7 from Win 8, just like they did with Vista to Windows XP?  Are retail customers going to be compelled to go out and purchase W8 to install on their current Windows 7 rigs?