Future AmigaOS GUI

[teo]

@simoami

im confused, im not sure where i recall the info from, but i was under the impression you were having some input into the new look and feel of OS4's gui???

Comparing this shot to the OS4 pics that have recently appeared in the news here, your gadgets and esp the screen title bar are definitely far better. Id love to see someone implement configurable docks on the title bar as it would be a big plus above the normal window/screen based docks we have. i can only see a couple of things i would change. The window borders look too linux (maybe a hybrid linux/macx look would work, who knows?) and the tabs as shown in the palette preferences would look nice merged with the sheet connected perhaps? (eg remove the barrier pixels)
 

[teo]

@simoami

I think its time we got away from the standard layout out windows. Its old and cluttered. osx seems to have made it half way but ended up becoming too simple in functionalty (in my opinion)

Following it a sample layout i thought of a while back implemented on your window design (sorry i butchered it and my fonts are crap). The major differences between my idea and normal window layouts are:

1. The title bar is not a visibly seperate entity than the window itself (ala osx) as i believe a visually seperate division just add clutter when many windows are open. This way its much faster for the eye to recognise a complete window

2. I thought that standard window functions could be grouped in a recessed area with things such as menus (in window like windows), buttons, status bars etc. This keeps extra things like status bars off the bottom of the window (havent put in a status on my example yet) One thing also worth considering it putting the everyday button normally at the bottom of the screen like "OK" and "CANCEL" somewhere in the recess group, but i havent thought of a good way to do this (or if it would be too hard to use) so its not in the pic yet.

3. One extra window gadget i though of is a window tab, as in my example its actually within the recessed group. Works the same as normal tabs but the entire lower window is within it. There would still be a need to normal inner tabs (eg where the entire window should not be one tab, it would not be appropriate for the image i posted just above as the entire window is not to be grouped in the tabs etc etc) but for simple preferences screens and simple apps i think it would be a fantastic way to simplify the layout without the normal clutter look of inner tabs.

4. My proudest idea is also the visually smallest one. The super gadget replaces all of the resize, maximise, minimise, move to front/back buttons on windows. The idea is that the different click you can do on it will perform all of the same functions, i.e:

left click + drag = move window
right click + drag = resize window
single left click = move to front
single right click = move to back
left double click = maximise
right double click = minimise

six in one, All from one icon!

The only thing you would have to get used to is resizeing windows from the top right not the bottom right.



feel free to redo my design if you like, im sure you can improve on it substantially. Perhaps we could get a list of killer ideas for a gui and sent it of to the official channels?


btw, why dont you post your pics to the images area, and put the background pic up a seperate pic in the backgrounds area as well :-)

[teo]

@HMetal

But, guys, give Hyperion some credit here

Of course, the screen shots just released have substantially eased my fear that the previous pastel-bench ;-) theme would not be the default. And its good to boot, a substantial improvment! My post are not comments born of critisism, they are ideas born of dreams.

To be honest, the functionality i suggest would probably be unfeasable as present anyway, as its too far off what we have currently and may require some substantial development of intuition. Maybe the multi-gadget (yes ive just renamed it from super gadget) would be the only able to be done easily? So as far as having these sort of enhancements for aos4, i think not! perhaps aos5? Time tol get some ideas together and start hollering at hyperion/a-inc as you suggest.

Mitch.
ps, who is Mark Rickan, does anyone know where can i browse some work of his?

[teo]

@mdwh2

I think the fact that it's visually the smallest one is a problem - what happens when it's covered by another window?

Thats a problem that already exists for all of the window gadgets anyway, the multi-gadget would not try to solve this, all its doing is reducing the number of gadgets and clutter. I agree with you in that anybody that dares remove doubleclick-to-front functionality should be shot, its a life saver. And as for the window resizing, a modifier key such as linux has would be ideal. for those that dont know how it works, you hold in the key and drag the left mouse button and the window is moved, hold the key and drag the right button and the closest side/corner of the window is resized with the mouse movement. Very nice infact.

Ive just had an alternative idea for the multi-gadget to replace the resizing. The right-click + drag could be used to bring up a  menu with standard window functions like snapshot, etc... Following is an example of what a web browser could look like in my window template (good use of window tabs), and the multigadget being right clicked and dragged for the window function menu:

click to enlarge

[teo]

A while back there was a thread on "dream" features for aos, but i cant seem to find it. Perhaps its time now to collate everyones ideas and have them centrally stored and organised so that before too long we can approach hyperion to put forward all the kick arse ideas for the next incarnation of aos, perhaps before aos4.2?

We just need to host it somewhere. It should be somewhere that is controled by someone who has a passion for improving the os gui. That rules out a.org.  I could set up an area at amigamonkey.com if need be but my server is slow and unreliable. Any other suggestions? simoami.com?

[teo]

@tickly

Note: This post is all IMHO, and indeed subjective

Of course, all comments appreciated, especially criticism.

Re: The curved window border at top. windows and macs now both come default with the same design, as do many linux distros as well. Im a fan of it but its all personal opinions anyway.

Re: The close gadget, yup its a shocker, suggest a better one and ill put it up.

Re: The multi gadget, it would not be right for all people considering newbies. I like it but perhaps a configurable system would be in order including all over window fucntions. As far as professional human-interface experts going crazy, actually windows is already doing it (ive used it for years but only just noticed that its the same thing implemented differently) and im sure they have many "experts" (giggles)... They use the entire title bar however. Click to focus, click+drag to move, double click to maximise and right click for window menu, try it! In practice its great and not confusing, infact its extremely intuitive. Perhaps we can consider that model, and steal then improve on that idea instead of it being the other way around as usual.

@z5
All credit for the bg image if for cojo, you will find the background image in the a.org images under full screen workbench backgrounds.

[teo]

@Tickly

Yes ive seen thode examples before, and there are many many more examples of bad application gui designs. But that is it, they are looking at *applications*, we are trying to focus on the underlying toolkit used to display those applications. Nothing will stop coders making bad ui decisions, and thank god some of the MS teams that do the gui's for the apps are not resonsible for the gui for the OS. At least coders should be given the proper tools for creating good interfaces. As much as amiga lovers hate to admit it, windows IS far ahead in term of gui layout. You can pick at the irrelevant crap specific apps they have screwed up but the fact still remains that the underlying gui toolkit has firmly kicked aos's but over the years and we are still tryingt o catch up. Hence our suggestions.

ps, I welcomed the idea of borderless buttons, they say (in your quote) it just common sense to have borders, do they give any reasoning? I find the borders irritating, add clutter and are completely uneeded. And its not just microsoft doing it, look at adobe's latest offerings, etc etc. If its such a bad idea why has osx and linux adopted it? Dont put to much faith in things just because they bash MS.

Back on topic, anyone got any opinions on gestures??? Id like to see them supported by the os, so each app does not have to code its own implementation (causing inconsistent performance and operation)

As far as the window buttons go, i figure a preferences app could be created that simply lets you put which ever gadgets on the windows, and select what happens when you click, double click drag, right click, right double click, right drag them. Also goes without saying that you should be able to specify what happens when you do the clicks on different parts of the windows as well, like title bar, borders etc. And key modifiers of course. This way, the default could still be the classic system, but easily updatable to better operations.

[teo]

Ive bigger and better plans for a third mouse button ;-) but of course it should all be configurable.

ps, i had renamed it the multi-gadget, but as it would be better implemented via system config its not really appropriate to give it a name :-(

One thing i would not be happy with is that people are expected to customise the gui because the default is not up to scratch. First impressions last. I feel its of upmost importance that the default system is highly attractive, efficient and functionable for both geeks and newbies alike. Its fine for existing users, but a newbie heading into local store x and comparing them will need to be impressed. A gui like this doesnt exist yet imo, but given time i think our community and hyperion are capable of crafting one.

[teo]

@mikeymike

Actually no, you said

Can we PLEASE start URL'ing huge pictures!

I dont think the last ones were *huge*. What is your dimension definition of huge? so i can try and stick to those dimensions for the ones coming up, even though this topic is about *graphical* user interfaces...

[teo]

@mikeymike

So maybe you ought to send in your comments on uncompressed bitmaps?

Not sure what you trying to get at there, it doesnt even qualify as sarcasm as it has no point, there is no reason to get offensive.

posting significantly-sized images, URL them

And i will, when you tell me what you define as huge (sorry, now significant) Eg, i see simo's images on page 7 as fine, you obviously do not. So what size would you recommend. And I suggest you re-check my image post on page four before replying. Btw, you know there is a reason there are [img] tags (im also on a modem)

[teo]

click to enlarge


Although the pic is far from detailed (rather flawed actually), it gives the idea of the functionality that could possibly be gained by using window tabs. In reality there would be more tabs for things such as network settings etc etc.

Obvious faults with the pic are the missing buttons in the recessed window group such as icons for revert, default, load prefs and others. The list box would be populated by different display cards or similar and the resolution and depth would not be applicable (as they are sleected outside the display)

re: the actual screen prefs section. i have changed it a bit to illustrate that at least the screenmode prefs could be updated with dramatically better usability and more logical layout, im sure my design can also be improved to a large degree too. incase your wondering, ive removed the "Test" button with the assumption that the "Save" and "Use" button would detect a screen mode cange at run time and prompt to run a test at that point (windows style) for the single reason that it help clean it up a bit (ie, i could find anywhere to shove it ;-)

ps @mikeymike, hows this, the image is in a.orgs new mock up image section you have provided, the generated thumb is not too different (in size) from the avatars on the site. Catch is we would have to wait for the imgs to be approved before we could link to them in forums such as i have done here.

[teo]

@PhatBoiCollier

i would say that it would depend on the implementation target and misc different factors. Eg a list box would be far more practical for showing a list of 20 items then tabs, in which case some tab scrolling system would have to be implemented (ewwww). Im of the opinion however that if you have more then eight items then your entire prefs system should be revised as its probably too complex for the average user, esp newbies. If your not targeting newbies however, go for it!

I do think that tabs better identify the enclosed as related directly to the tabs, compared to a left side list box. List boxes are normally used to simply select an item, not for changing the content of a window to related material.

btw, apparently eight "items" is the max number of items the average human can cope with without having to overly concentrate (sorry, no source on that info). As such im the sort of person that would be dedicated to using lateral thinking to invent a system that would better implement the problem area, and not force the user to have to put up with a second rate implementation. I do accept its not always applicable thou.

[teo]

@PhatBoiCollier
Thats a good idea! if intuition new if the window tabs were going to be too wide for the window then it would convert them to a left hand list box on the fly (perhaps we could even design a new look of list box for this purpose to better illustrate the connection to the content) This would also be cool for when you resize a window the change could be made on the fly to best suit the windows actual available area?

@Step
There have been mixed opinions on the multi gadget, which to me normally means its a no go. I guess it could certainly be confusing to newbies, I might have a go at trying to set it up and see how it works in practice to see if it is as usable as i think. Even if its not, i still think that having window gadgets configurable would be of benefit, even if its not going to be used as i suggested it would at least mean you can set the layout as you see fit?

your windows 'container' floats into the contents of the window

Sorry, im not sure exactly which element you mean there, do you mean the window tabs not having a border onto the windows content, and as such that you think it would visibly create confusion?

@KingTutt
I agree, if theres one thing that we should be aiming for its a familiar gui recognisable as amiga. To be honest im not sure if mine does it successfully. Ive tried to keep my greys a little darker like the old os, you will notice that win and mac seem to have very light backgrounds by default, I tried it but it lost the amiga look i thought.

@all
Ive had another idea, not exactly to do with the gui but related. The OS should have a catalouge of common icon images and glyphs (gadgets) that could be accessed by all apps. I would STRONGLY recommend that the images are in SVG format (is there an SVG datatype for ami yet?) The idea is that every app would not have to worry about distributing common icons as they would already exist and be retrievable from the OS and when updated, all apps would benefit from the new styles. there i go thinkin' out loud again...

Some of the icons im thinking are for: ok, cancel, save, revert, refresh, delete, insert, update, change, help, load, preferences etc etc. I would expect the list to push past 100 glyphs, it may sound large but considering all the space apps would save over many many installs...

[teo]

@NewRevolution
1 & 1.1) yup, perhaps ill look into something a little more bold (colour wise), still needs to be amiga like of course...
2) agree
3) use doesnt save, eg on the old amiga i would temporary change it to play a game on the tv. I doubt it would be applicable for screen resolutions in the future, but one thing i forgot to mention about the screen shot was that the status bar is *NOT* affected by the window tabs, eg the save save, use, cancel button would be applicable to all pref settings, so you could in theory change the network setting to a specific IP address while you are out and about or on site, and not save it, and then revert to saved later (or simply reboot) to get rid of the temporary settings. So the use button would have a far greater impact on prefs then just screen modes alone.
4) the list box above would in reality not show the resolution as well (i just didnt remove it when i copied it from simoami) it would instead be showing a general device list (or similar) so the resolution would be outside of it. And if you want to make a screen bigger then the visible reolution you would need to enter it below, there would have to be some error checking for figures obvisouly. The thing that it is missing, is to be able to select from a default set of resolutions, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024 etc etc
5) I would have to be larger for the other settings. The final layout would have to be created in respect to the other settings as well, and them formatted to suit the final width and height. An alternative is that each window tab could specify a different width and height that the window would be resized to when clicked. mac osx does this already but to be honest its mildly irritating to me. If i want a window to resize then ill prefer to do it myself, so I would lean towards setting a specific (generous) size for the prefs window, and layout the different sections to best use the available space.
6) ill do a quick mock up this weekend if i get the time.