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Author Topic: IDE CDROM questions for TF536 with A2000.  (Read 4563 times)

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Offline Matt_H

Re: IDE CDROM questions for TF536 with A2000.
« on: October 10, 2021, 05:39:23 PM »
what is the significance of that +5 v to the card?  the cable you mean is this one i liked specifically?  i'm just making sure i don't get info mixed up.
The cable you linked is for running 44-pin devices off of a 40-pin controller. Power lines are integrated into 44-pin cables but not 40-pin cables, so that cable has an external power input to provide power to the 44-pin devices connected to it.

I'm not familiar with the TF536, but from the description I see online it looks like it has a 44-pin controller. Assuming your CF adapter is a 44-pin device, you'd need a cable with 2x 44-pin connectors (controller and CF) and 1x 40-pin connector (CD-ROM). I think you could use your cable for that as long as you left the power plug disconnected since you'd be using the cable "backwards." Power the CD drive directly from the A2000's supply. Or you could use one of these if you have a CF adapter with a 40-pin connector. Both CF and CD would be externally powered from the A2000's supply.

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"fake Gayle" IDE implementation. ?   what does that mean?  there is an IDE pin setup on the card.  how does this work?
On the 600 and 1200, the Gayle chip contains the IDE controller and the driver (scsi.device) is in the Kickstart ROM. Because the 500/600/2000 use the same ROM, most 500/2000 CPU socket accelerators with IDE controllers try to mimic the signals from Gayle so that they can use the existing driver in the Kickstart.

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do cd ide adapters have master/slave pins?  i know the cd rom would have to be the other of course..  assuming cf is master and cd rom would be slave.
Some CF adapters have master/slave jumpers, others don't. All CD drives do. I think it's a good assumption that the CF adapter will be master if there are no jumpers.


Also note that (IDE) scsi.device under 3.1 and below can't detect CD drives. The IDEfix package that Pat linked includes atapi.device, which will work. You may also want to look into AsimCDFS (3.10 is the last version), which includes asim_atapi.device. Personally, I prefer Asim, which is CD support and nothing more. IDEfix provides CD support and does a lot of other things to the IDE subsystem which you may or may not want.

3.2 (and I think 3.1.4) requires no additional software for CD support.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2021, 05:41:06 PM by Matt_H »
 

Offline Matt_H

Re: IDE CDROM questions for TF536 with A2000.
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2021, 01:03:24 AM »
Yes, it looks like that cable would work from an electrical standpoint. But as I look at it again I think it might be too short. And it's really expensive. My advice would be to keep looking. You can probably find a functionally identical cable with more length at a better price. AmigaKit could probably make you one if you inquire.

You can use a DVD drive but it will effectively function as a CD drive - the Amiga CD filesystems were written before DVDs existed and don't know how to fully handle DVDs. The exception to this *might* be the CDFS shipped with 3.2. I can't remember from the release notes if DVD support was added.

MakeCD is the standard for CD burning on the Amiga. There are/were a few other programs, but MakeCD is the most mature/stable, albeit a bit verbose by modern standards.
 

Offline Matt_H

Re: IDE CDROM questions for TF536 with A2000.
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2021, 10:06:16 PM »
There's no need to send supplemental power to the card. By design, if it has a 44-pin connector, it's capable of powering a 44-pin device, e.g., the CF adapter. If supplemental power was a concern, there'd probably be a Berg/floppy-style power input directly on the card.

I think the relocators Pat is referring to are something like this, which can be necessary in some systems to make the accelerator fit physically into the machine without being blocked by other components. In theory, the longer distance for the signals to travel could cause issues but I haven't seen/noticed any reports of that happening.

Extending IDE cables is a little more fraught with possible problems. You can try the extender, but if you have read/write errors or data integrity problems along the bus then the cable becomes your main suspect. ;)
 

Offline Matt_H

Re: IDE CDROM questions for TF536 with A2000.
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2021, 06:28:41 PM »
So this is the one that AmigaKit came back saying I should get http://amigakit.amiga.store/adapter-cable-25cm-p-1289.html

So this looks about the same BUT it's actually shorter than the one I ordered.. and no power port..  would I damage something if i plugged one of my Molex connectors into that port on the ribbon?  Or would it provide helpful voltage to power the devices or might it zap something?
The original cable you linked had a connector to feed power to 2x 44-pin hard drives. Running it "backwards" as you'd need to would mean feeding power directly into the accelerator. Such a thing might be perfectly fine, but it also might be dangerous since the accelerator is designed to draw power only from the CPU socket (and therefore through the onboard regulator circuitry before reaching the 44-pin connector). It's safer - and a hell of a lot cheaper - to use AmigaKit's cable. You could try adding an extension or ask them to do you a custom one that's longer and it would still probably come out cheaper.

do you have a suggestion for a good sd hard drive alternative?  the TF came with the CF but frankly I'm partial to SD because it's newer..  CF is getting old and I imagine more prone to wear out sooner at this point.
I agree with Pat. If you have the CF setup in hand (and it works), there's no need to go to SD.

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the 68000 cpu is removable I take it?  if I did put the TF in the cpu slot..   in theory if I ever got a original accelerator (after selling a kidney) and i had the TF in the cpu.. would the other card effectively bypass it?
Yes, the 68000 is socketed. If you later got an accelerator-slot accelerator you'd most likely need to remove the TF and replace the original 68000. The alternative is something like this, like what Pat linked. Instead of removing the 68000 from the motherboard you just mount the TF on one of these and (carefully!) put the whole contraption into the accelerator slot.

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I'm still a bit disappointed about this card not allowing me to use scsi. but the IDE option makes it ok..  I just gave up on any SCSI hopes and video flyer...  but obviously seeing the insanely steep prices of A2000 accelerators it was the sane solution.  :)
You could always get a (used) Zorro-based SCSI controller. Not terribly cheap, but not as expensive as an accelerator.
And if you later want to make this into a Toaster/Flyer machine, you don't need a separate SCSI controller, just a hard drive (or equivalent). The Flyer is its own SCSI controller for video hard drives.
 

Offline Matt_H

Re: IDE CDROM questions for TF536 with A2000.
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2021, 10:32:14 PM »
You could always get a (used) Zorro-based SCSI controller. Not terribly cheap, but not as expensive as an accelerator.
And if you later want to make this into a Toaster/Flyer machine, you don't need a separate SCSI controller, just a hard drive (or equivalent). The Flyer is its own SCSI controller for video hard drives.

No. They can't. TF accelerators don't allow Zorro expansions, either in A2000 Zorro card slots or the expansion bus on the side of an A500 or A1000.

Last I heard, anyway. Which is why I posted the exxos link for the Terriblefire support forums

What, really? I hadn't heard about that (although I don't follow the TF stuff closely) but that's a significant design flaw if true.
 

Offline Matt_H

Re: IDE CDROM questions for TF536 with A2000.
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2021, 11:57:26 PM »
I see a number of ps/2 to 9pin adapters like this one.. https://www.ebay.com/itm/383611674085?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=383611674085&targetid=1262779893289&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9001994&poi=&campaignid=13917593257&mkgroupid=128459893881&rlsatarget=pla-1262779893289&abcId=9300613&merchantid=113781450&gclid=Cj0KCQjwqp-LBhDQARIsAO0a6aI4nEdp1GJnICIgJgGYmT-cQAa_P2HklYz9J30ucAjzSGSKHIClE5AaAnIsEALw_wcB

I would feel better using a ps/2 mouse rather than usb just because i could see it being closer to the era.. less voltage expectation..
Don't use one of those adapters! That's to use a PS/2 mouse on a PC's 9-pin serial port. The Amiga's 9-pin ports are not serial ports. Electrically, they're completely different. That adapter won't work and it might even damage something on the Amiga, so avoid, avoid avoid.

You need an adapter designed for the Amiga. The Micromys V5 is supposed to be a good one for PS/2, although I don't have any personal experience with it. The fact your existing USB adapter doesn't work is concerning and could indicate a problem on the motherboard. But first try other mice and adapters. Hopefully it's just a random compatibility problem.
 

Offline Matt_H

Re: IDE CDROM questions for TF536 with A2000.
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2021, 05:38:38 PM »
This might help, although it’s geared toward the 4000. The site is run by @Castellen, a user here and a master of Amiga repair knowledge.
 

Offline Matt_H

Re: IDE CDROM questions for TF536 with A2000.
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2021, 01:48:32 AM »
which pin is pin 7?  thanks for that link!  definitely good but i'm no good at reading diagrams at least in relation to how they read looking at the db9 is it:

1  2  3  4  5
  6  7  8  9

?
Yes, that matches the pinout shown in the manual.