Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Topic started by: SysAdmin on March 24, 2012, 04:42:22 PM
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The following article was submitted to us by an Amiga.org member that wishes to reman anonymous. She is a long time Amiga artist and lurker on this site but rarely posts. She has owned Amiga's over many years going back to the Amiga 1000 she purchased in 1985. She is upset about the recent turn of events and wanted to express her opinion on this site and asked us to share it. She also gave us one rule, her identity must remain private. We will publish her article and honor her one wish.
Article Start
I have always loved the Amiga and appreciated it for what it really is. A tool for artistic expression and visual creativity. I don't post on forums much but I do read ones that cover my favorite computer tool. Since CommodoreUSA had nothing Amiga related for sale I have ignored their posts so far and had no opinion of them. I never owned a C64 or a PC so they had nothing worth paying attention to for me. This all changed recently when CommodoreUSA started selling the Amiga Mini, something that has no relation to any Amiga I have ever purchased and loved. I don't understand CPU's, GPU's and other computer gibberish but I know and love the artistic tool called Amiga that I have used since 1985 and this is not it.
Where is the Amiga operating system? Where is the essence of what I know and enjoy? I have now done a little research about CommodoreUSA and here is my conclusion. They are Takers just like the movie. Instead of robbing a bank they are trying to rob a community of artistic computer enthusiasts. This is different than growing pains or just making mistakes. DiscreetFX has done that in the past and said sorry. But at least they are Amiga fans and put money into the community. They saved Amiga.org, they even started the whole bounty system with AmiZilla that many other bounty systems later copied.
I found no evidence that CommodoreUSA have ever put anything into the Amiga community. They only want to take. Thier hand is in your purse or wallet asking for money even before the product is nothing more than a Photoshop image. I won't be giving them even $1 of my hard earned money and I recommend you do the same. They are welcome to try and change my mind, just show me one thing they have ever done for the Amiga Community. I don't live in a vacuum, I want to know long time fellow Amiga owners opinion of my article and CommodoreUSA. Thanks for reading and please share.
Article End
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Well-said.
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Hard for a "she" to remain anonymous here. It either Cammy or ummm, Cammy or?
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Hard for a "she" to remain anonymous here. It either Cammy or ummm, Cammy or?
Wrong.
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Well, it could also be Cecilia or that woman Amiga artist from Italy (both are quite talented). I don't think Cammy ever described herself as an visual artist.
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Well my money would be on cecilia too....
Those who thought cammy ...... sure she might be a bit older than she looks (dunno, dont care ....)but surely not old enough to have owned an A1000 in 1985 !
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I won't be giving them even $1 of my hard earned money and I recommend you do the same. They are welcome to try and change my mind, just show me one thing they have ever done for the Amiga Community. I don't live in a vacuum, I want to know long time fellow Amiga owners opinion of my article and CommodoreUSA. Thanks for reading and please share.
Article End
Believe Barry could always say they are no charity.
True, they are LCC that seems to over maximize profit exceeding the main strength of x86 platform: good price/performance ration. Take away how Amiga they are, they are not competitive on PC market. Thus success and eventual re-investment in Amiga community anyhow is less likely, including what we know of how management and fanboys think and act.
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Guys does it really matter who it is? The fact that this person has had to do it as an anon means they probably felt they would get no support or become subject to ridicule if they posted it themselves.
It certainly does speak from their heart though. To whoever it is your not alone in your feelings. ;)
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smart lady
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I really don't care who it is.
I like the fact that CUSA has pulled the Commodore and Amiga brands under the same roof again, and that they have made some very nice custom cases (C64X). I do agree, though, that they should try to make the system a little more like a real Amiga (i.e. AROS).
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Does it really matter who she is?
CUSA is not doing anything positive for the amiga brand, if anything, they are creating even more confusion about the amiga. Which is a really bad thing, we already have several fractions, we really don't need one more.
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not even a reasonable price has a pc.
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Hard for a "she" to remain anonymous here. It either Cammy or ummm, Cammy or?
Did you even read the article?
(^__~ )
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I really don't care who it is.
I like the fact that CUSA has pulled the Commodore and Amiga brands under the same roof again, and that they have made some very nice custom cases (C64X). I do agree, though, that they should try to make the system a little more like a real Amiga (i.e. AROS).
All they did was license them. Aros is nothing to do with real amiga.. are you kidding? C=usa does noting original or helpful to the amiga platform. Making a bunch of cases with pc motherboards in them with some emulator running on linux has nothing at all to do with amiga as a matter of fact its completely unoriginal. they are fakes and just try to soak people for money with the name. Do you even know what a Amiga is? Its companies like these that deficate on the Amiga.
Oh and the original post this was about seems to be well said.
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Simply and clear...
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women.. cars.... women.. computers. Ignore.
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Could be me, but it's not.
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I don't understand why most of you are so upset about this new computer. It seems everyone has their own opinion about what Amiga is and what new Amiga should be.
Just use some other Amiga computer thing and enjoy it.
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Hard for a "she" to remain anonymous here. It either Cammy or ummm, Cammy or?
or Fleecy Moss...
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Couldn't agree more with the OP. Sticking peecee mobos in custom cases doesn't make an Amiga.
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Nah, it's one of the women from Annex!
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The following article was submitted to us by an Amiga.org member that wishes to reman anonymous. She is a long time Amiga artist and lurker on this site but rarely posts. She has owned Amiga's over many years going back to the Amiga 1000 she purchased in 1985. She is upset about the recent turn of events and wanted to express her opinion on this site and asked us to share it. She also gave us one rule, her identity must remain private. We will publish her article and honor her one wish.
Gee, well Cammy is too young to be this person, so that means a certain MorphOS user wrote this. :)
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>I don't understand CPU's, GPU's and other computer gibberish
She has been using an Amiga for 27 years and still doesn't understand CPUs? No wonder they say women know nothing about computers :-(
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She has been using an Amiga for 27 years and still doesn't understand CPUs? No wonder they say women know nothing about computers :-(
Dumbshít.
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http://cecilia.sawneybean.com/amiga.html
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>I don't understand CPU's, GPU's and other computer gibberish
She has been using an Amiga for 27 years and still doesn't understand CPUs? No wonder they say women know nothing about computers :-(
Do you know who Ada Lovelace is? Just read the first paragraph of the Wikipedia entry about her and you can see how damn stupid you just made yourself look...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Lovelace
..and just for the record one of the best 3D artists I ever had the pleasure of working with was a total noob when it came to hardware. He was not a woman, just a damn good artist with no interest in computing beyond the apps he used.
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Or it could be just a figment of this site's management imagination to boost activity here.
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To the original post - Extremely well put. Finally some one I completely agree with concerning CUSA and their "amiga".
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Take care for them, I am really upset about this company!
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@MissAnonymous
Hear, hear... This CUSA outfit is nothing more than a glorified sticker / re-branding company, which is totally bereft of the creativity, talent, commitment found throughout this community past and present.
Their "products" are about as innovative as the re-branded Tablet tat available from Amiga, Inc. They should really look back at the Commode Gaming's ill-fated endeavors, and realize once the novelty quickly wears off *and it will*, nobody in their right mind will pay a premium prices for hardware that is readily available elsewhere for much cheaper, simply for the privilege of a couple of stickers and a glossy desktop theme.
I have nothing but respect and admiration for all those talented people, actively developing in the Amiga spirit, may it be for AmigaOS, MorphOS, Aros and others.
The endeavors of CUSA pale in comparison, all they seem to want is invest the absolute minimum effort in order to extract the quickest buck.
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In most ways I agree with the angle of the OP. I don't see CUSA as evil, nor do I see them as misunderstood. I feel CUSA is ignorant to what Amiga and Commodore means to the community.
This lends to their replies and actions as they seem more like a child's reactions to being punished for something they can't grasp or understand. They see it as a recognizable computer symbol without understanding WHY it is a recognizable computer symbol...
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+1 Akiko, if CUSA come to Norfolk you an me can chase 'em down with our tractors. :D
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In most ways I agree with the angle of the OP. I don't see CUSA as evil, nor do I see them as misunderstood. I feel CUSA is ignorant to what Amiga and Commodore means to the community.
This lends to their replies and actions as they seem more like a child's reactions to being punished for something they can't grasp or understand. They see it as a recognizable computer symbol without understanding WHY it is a recognizable computer symbol...
They are hardly ignorant of it.
They see people selling NG "Amiga" computers for 3 grand. They see USB cards being sold for a couple hundred, and other equipment for similar prices. They see people zealously defending next-gen corners with insults and flamewars. We can hate them all we want for what they are, but they are hardly the first grave robbers. We can only hope they will be the last.
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She has been using an Amiga for 27 years and still doesn't understand CPUs? No wonder they say women know nothing about computers :-(
http://cs-www.cs.yale.edu/homes/tap/Files/hopper-story.html
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I totally agree with our anonymous poster, Commodore USA lack the talent and technical experience to create something deserving of the Amiga name and should just be ignored as a sad joke.
By the way whoever it is it's 100% definitely not Cammy, who was born in 1985.
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Awww....... I really do miss CeCe. She was so much fun, when she was around here. LOL! Remember when she was ranting about having to shop out that Fremen's @$$ for the SciFi redux of Dune? XD
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By the way whoever it is it's 100% definitely not Cammy, who was born in 1985.
Pssh. Cammy's *A LOT* older than being born in 1985, I've been hanging with her, since 1993, when she was one of the new challengers of Street Fighter II and she was *MUCH* older than 8, back then. :laughing:
[EDIT] - I'd like to point out that the only reason Cammy and I started hanging out, was 'cos at the time, Chun Li and I were separated.....
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http://cecilia.sawneybean.com/amiga.html
I don't really care who wrote the post, but thanks for this reference X.
I think I'm in love.
That woman is amazing!
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Hi,
[I have always loved the Amiga and appreciated it for what it really is]
Back in 1985 it was a very innovative computer, compared to other computers out at that time, but compared to today's computers and high technology the whole Amiga can be put in the base of a joystick, but also can still be hooked up to a TV.
[Since CommodoreUSA had nothing Amiga related for sale I have ignored their posts so far]
by todays standards "Just what exactly is Amiga related?" an old archaic computer that is a hobby computer, nothing more, nothing less. A collectors computer to keep all us old farts remembering our days of yesteryear.
[This all changed recently when CommodoreUSA started selling the Amiga Mini, something that has no relation to any Amiga I have ever purchased and loved. I don't understand CPU's, GPU's and other computer gibberish but I know and love the artistic tool called Amiga that I have used since 1985 and this is not it. ]
Well we can really tell that you really don't keep up with modern times. Today's artistic tools on Linux, Windows PC's and UGH!! rotten apple core MACs can do about 1000% more than the Amiga with its cartoonish drawings. (Sorry but that is what it really is).
[Where is the Amiga operating system?]
The Amiga operating system is in Uncle Bill's hands, whether we like it or not. He bought the patent rights and owns them as of yet as far as I know. I can't really recall any official word of him selling them, although he did sell out some licenseing rights.
[CommodoreUSA They are Takers]
Golly gee whiz, really, maybe like MorphOS, Aros, minimig, Amiga X1000, and Natami, we can call all of them takers, or we can call them developers trying to give the Amiga a new start somewhere.
[I don't live in a vacuum]
No, you sure don't live in a vacuum, you live in something worse, just like all the other people here on Amiga.org, you live in the past, you don't want to see it go away, you don't want to advance a go with the future, where the programs are a little harder to use because they do so much more.
Read those last couple of words, where the programs are a little harder to use because they do so much more, back in 1985 didn't we hear those same words from a great person named Jay Miner, that the Amiga computer was the best because it's programs have the capability of doing so much more. If Jay was alive and inventing today I would hate to see what he would of made today. What processor would he have used? What Graphics chip, oh so outdated, How about card would he have used? Would he have chose the new Intel, or the Octacore AMD?
Yeah, the Amiga was a great computer, it surpassed every other computer made, but that was back in 1985, it is now 2012, will we see a new Amiga way better than what was? or will we see the end of the world as supposedly said by the Mayan calander.
It really doesn't matter for the people at Amiga.org, they refuse to accept a new way of life anyway.
smerf
Owned a CPM machine before 1985, owned a 8086 machine before 1985, owned a C64 machine before 1985, owned a C128D machine before 1985, owned an Amiga after the C128D machine in 1985. Still own a bunch of Amiga's in 2012.
but
I use a PC with Linux, WindowsXP, Windows, Vista, and Windows 7. One runs EUAE, the rest run Cloanto's Amiga Forever.
I believe in giving my old silicon a rest, and turn on the old girl when I want to show the younger generation what an Amgia did. It impresses a lot of them, especially when they learn that the machine is older than them.
smerf
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...
The Amiga operating system is in Uncle Bill's hands, whether we like it or not. He bought the patent rights and owns them as of yet as far as I know. I can't really recall any official word of him selling them, although he did sell out some licensing rights.
...
smerf
Exclusive licensing rights. Even Amiga Inc can't develop it (and trying to sell something you're not allowed to develop would be pointless). Which means that the Amiga operating system is in Hyperion's hands.
So whether you guys like it or not, there is a company developing new Amiga related systems and software that IS related to legacy systems.
Its a shame more of your fanatics can't get behind Hyperion. If the hardware was more affordable, I'd consider it. Right now, about the only positive voice you guys haven't crowded out is AmigaDave.
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@MissAnonymous
Hear, hear... This CUSA outfit is nothing more than a glorified sticker / re-branding company, which is totally bereft of the creativity, talent, commitment found throughout this community past and present.
Their "products" are about as innovative as the re-branded Tablet tat available from Amiga, Inc. They should really look back at the Commode Gaming's ill-fated endeavors, and realize once the novelty quickly wears off *and it will*, nobody in their right mind will pay a premium prices for hardware that is readily available elsewhere for much cheaper, simply for the privilege of a couple of stickers and a glossy desktop theme.
I have nothing but respect and admiration for all those talented people, actively developing in the Amiga spirit, may it be for AmigaOS, MorphOS, Aros and others.
The endeavors of CUSA pale in comparison, all they seem to want is invest the absolute minimum effort in order to extract the quickest buck.
I don't disagree with some of your comments Akiko, but I don't agree with some of them either.
I know Barry may have upset you guys with his previous unfulfilled product announcements and gaffs, but to be serious he's working under a lot of pressure. CUSA is no Apple with years of experience or budgets the size of a country's Balance of Payments accounts. They are still a fledgling company with only 2 years under their belt and are limited by the budgets they can spend. In particular is Barry....he is at heart a numbers man. And to convince him to produce the right products for us, he and his stakeholders Amiga Inc. and the related Commodore licensors they have to believe the market is still there, is supportable and is sustainable...
Also I think most of you guys have failed to realize the scope of what CUSA has brought themselves under. It is a HUGE undertaking to revive the Commodore and the Amiga brands, as you would probably know the past 20 years have shown from other endeavors into the foray that have failed miserably. You may call it what you will (that they're just hobbling together cheap PC machines with just a sticker on top) but the truth is it is more than that. You need REAL INNOVATION AND REAL GUTS and money to get out there and say you can do it to revive Commodore…..because otherwise you fall flat on your face. This is the danger and risk the CUSA team faces at the moment…..because while the hardcore users are all asking for their ideal dream machines at the ideal prices, they fail to realize the huge investment, efforts and capital needed to create the very things they want. And as a company working now in an industry with very little margins, they have to decide and consider is this endeavor still worth it?
But such risks can be lessened….if we work together as groups coming together, to create that demand. If you want them to produce the products you want, they're going to have to need money and capital. And the only way they're going to do this is your support for them by buying their products. This is the same for everybody whether you are Acube, Aeon, Amikit or otherwise….
That said, nobody in the Amiga communities should be at loggerheads with each other in various camps….everybody can co-exist and live together in harmony if only we work together and give each other the space for others, and time to cooperate, to create new ideas. If we do this, we can make it work and the dream will come true…that we will all have that proper Commodore branded modern Amiga box running the latest AmigaOS….
CUSA are no former CBM.....but please give them time. They will do good for the Amiga community eventually. I know they will…please have some faith….
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by todays standards "Just what exactly is Amiga related?" an old archaic computer that is a hobby computer, nothing more, nothing less. A collectors computer to keep all us old farts remembering our days of yesteryear.
Speak for yourself; I was born in 1985 and didn't even know what the Amiga was until I was 17. (Grew up on those oh-so-awful Macs that you go off at the merest mention of.) I'm part of the Amiga community because I appreciate the Amiga for what it is, not for the nostalgia I don't have for it. It might indeed be best classified as a hobby machine these days (though the only crucial part of my daily life I don't think I could conduct on my A1200 is my VST endeavors and listening to the MP3 portions of my music collection,) but I've never considered "hobby" to be a slur, myself.
Golly gee whiz, really, maybe like MorphOS, Aros, minimig, Amiga X1000, and Natami, we can call all of them takers, or we can call them developers trying to give the Amiga a new start somewhere.
While I'll recognize the ongoing debate over the merits of each, you know what none of the above are doing? They're not slapping a free OS on commodity hardware, adding a sticker, and trying to sell it for 50-90% markup. Any of the above might conceivably be said to be "trying to give the Amiga a new start somewhere," but what CUSA is doing is nothing of the kind.
No, you sure don't live in a vacuum, you live in something worse, just like all the other people here on Amiga.org, you live in the past, you don't want to see it go away, you don't want to advance a go with the future, where the programs are a little harder to use because they do so much more.
The worst kind of futurists are the ones who act as though wanting to remain with something old and familiar is a moral failing and a mark of inferiority. I don't know what you're like in daily life, smerf, but here, you're a horrible arrogant twit. You're not somehow superior by dint of not being attached to old tech, no matter what you think.
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@Middleman
I don't know what goes on behind the scenes at CUSA but so far it appears all they have done is make some custom cases for PC's and included a free Linux Mint OS with some script modifications. This is very low cost and very low risk. They can correct me if I am wrong but I have not seen any risk or any innovation taken so far. ClusterUK and ARES does the same thing and they are little outfits. At least they include AROS with their offering and put money back into the community. Has CUSA ever put any money into the community? What pressure is CUSA under? No one asked them to do what they are doing.
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I know Barry may have upset you guys with his previous unfulfilled product announcements and gaffs, but to be serious he's working under a lot of pressure. CUSA is no Apple with years of experience or budgets the size of a country's Balance of Payments accounts. They are still a fledgling company with only 2 years under their belt and are limited by the budgets they can spend. In particular is Barry....he is at heart a numbers man. And to convince him to produce the right products for us, he and his stakeholders Amiga Inc. and the related Commodore licensors they have to believe the market is still there, is supportable and is sustainable...
You know what? I've worked under pressure too. It makes me irritable and snappish sometimes - what it doesn't make me is a crude, tactless gasbag filled with unwarranted self-importance. In the two years CUSA have been active around here, Barry has been consistently rude to anybody who questions his actions or his plans, has allowed his company to post a large number of blatantly fake promotional materials (honestly, a trained monkey could do a better job with Photoshop,) and only sends Leo around to cozy up to the community when he really puts his foot in it (despite repeated assertions that we're "not the target market.") This isn't a matter of budgetary limitations or lack of confidence in the market, this is a matter of Barry being a sleaze.
Also I think most of you guys have failed to realize the scope of what CUSA has brought themselves under. It is a HUGE undertaking to revive the Commodore and the Amiga brands, as you would probably know the past 20 years have shown from other endeavors into the foray that have failed miserably.
That's a load of shít. In two years, all we've gotten are comically overpriced PC builds in some-degree-of-customized cases and constant assurances that something actually Amiga-related is definitely probably maybe in the works, in the distant future, if everything goes well. No plans, no details, no nothing. It's a stalling tactic, and it's screamingly obvious.
You need REAL INNOVATION AND REAL GUTS and money to get out there and say you can do it to revive Commodore…..
If I could reach you, I would smack you. I've done as much bagging on the X1000 as anybody, but for all my problems with the product, Trevor has shown guts and know-how and passion. He's the kind of person that deserves accolades for mere accomplishment, if we're going to be giving them out. Barry is a furniture reseller trying to make a fast buck off whatever gullible dupes he can scrape together, and he's not one hundredth the scrappy underdog enterpreneur that Trevor is (to say nothing of guys like Jens or the NatAmi team.)
But such risks can be lessened….if we work together as groups coming together, to create that demand. If you want them to produce the products you want, they're going to have to need money and capital. And the only way they're going to do this is your support for them by buying their products. This is the same for everybody whether you are Acube, Aeon, Amikit or otherwise….
The difference being that Amikit actually makes things that I might want. Giving CUSA money for things I have no desire for and can't afford is not going to get me anywhere closer to the things I'd actually like, it's going to encourage them to produce more things I don't want and can't afford.
CUSA are no former CBM.....but please give them time. They will do good for the Amiga community eventually. I know they will…please have some faith….
I gave them plenty of time, and they've not only failed to provide any evidence of progress in any direction I'd like to see progress in, they've manage to alienate damn near everyone in this community. I think that says it all, really.
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If I could reach you, I would smack you. I've done as much bagging on the X1000 as anybody, but for all my problems with the product, Trevor has shown guts and know-how and passion. He's the kind of person that deserves accolades for mere accomplishment, if we're going to be giving them out. Barry is a furniture reseller trying to make a fast buck off whatever gullible dupes he can scrape together, and he's not one hundredth the scrappy underdog enterpreneur that Trevor is (to say nothing of guys like Jens or the NatAmi team.)
DAMNED well said!
I have the greatest respect for Trevor.
And while I'm not a big fan of Hyperion, they are the only real Amiga related game in town.
I've never really been bothered by Barry's plans because I've lost most of my hangups related to trademarks (notice the system I use).
But a CUSA Amiga isn't really an Amiga in anything but name only.
The closest thing to an Amiga currently available is the X1000.
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Hi,
@commodorejohn,
Gosh, those are the nicest words you have ever said to me. What am I like in real life, just an old fart waiting for someone to redevelope the Amiga and bring it back. The only computer I won't use is an apple product. I hate apple back from the old days, you know they where probably one of the reasons the Amiga failed. The biggest reason though was the Commodore leadership, not knowing what they wanted or where doing(sort of hangs around in the commodore circles, doesn't it commodorejohn), commodore just couldn't decide what direction to go, they invested their money into the PC10, PC20 and then the Amiga 500 and Amiga 2000, these moves really confused most Amiga people back in the old days.
The Amiga 1000 was supposed to be the flagship of the new Amiga line, yet not even two years since coming out, they were abandoning the Amiga 1000 for the 500 and 2000
This caused a lot of the people out there to look at other computers, and one of the competitors apple took a lot away from the Amiga line, not saying this was bad because Commodore wasn't ready for the influx of sales, and we just couldn't get enough Amiga's out there to sell.
By the way calling me a twit is sort of mild, because I am a real a$$hole,
smerf
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I hate apple back from the old days...
smerf
I actually really understand this sentiment.
Apple's 68K products were lame in the extreme.
Back when these were current, I was selling multi-user 68K systems.
The Macs lack of a CLI was idiot tech raised to its highest level.
Still, I don't have any problem using an abandoned platform for my own purposes.
And today was the first time I've run OSX in over a year. I had to test an R400 based video card I'd received and those don't even post under MorphOS.
So, in went the OSX boot drive, I tested the card and immediately removed the drive (with a shudder)
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Golly gee whiz, really, maybe like MorphOS, Aros, minimig, Amiga X1000, and Natami, we can call all of them takers, or we can call them developers trying to give the Amiga a new start somewhere.
But that's just it - they're not trying to give anything a new start except Barry's bank account. Painting a Linux backdrop blue isn't a new start to anything, it's a cash-in. I'd still like to see any evidence at all that C=USA have any intention whatsoever of doing anything with the names "Commodore" and "Amiga" except using it to hike up massive profit margins on bog standard PCs.
MOS, AROS, MiniMig, X1000 and NatAmi all give something to the community. C=USA just take. Completely different.
It really doesn't matter for the people at Amiga.org, they refuse to accept a new way of life anyway.
We don't refuse to accept a new way of life, but we prefer the old way of life, and if the old way of life is what we enjoy using, then why shouldn't we?
Most of us use modern machines too, and those who don't, don't need to.
To me computing should be both functional and enjoyable. Modern PCs are functional, not enjoyable, so I use an AOS machine whenever I can. And if it does the job as well as a modern PC, and I can enjoy using it, then that's what I'll do.
I use a PC with Linux, WindowsXP, Windows, Vista, and Windows 7. One runs EUAE, the rest run Cloanto's Amiga Forever.
I believe in giving my old silicon a rest, and turn on the old girl when I want to show the younger generation what an Amgia did. It impresses a lot of them, especially when they learn that the machine is older than them.
smerf
That's fine for you, but the rest of us use our machines for something different than just showing what the "old girl" can do - we still use our machines.... and no amount of people shouting "but the world has changed! You're stuck in the past, man!" will change that.
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@OP
Her post make some really good points!.
@all
I am really suprised to see attempts of trolling here.
Her post is not trolling and not an comment to try and stir the pot, its her take on how it looks like, its her opinion and its an honest opinion.
Can we please stop with all the trolling, its ruining our community and its making me ill to see how people in the Amiga circles act like teenagers,we are better than this!.
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@OP
Can we please stop with all the trolling, its ruining our community and its making me ill to see how people in the Amiga circles act like teenagers,we are better than this!.
+1
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Why is this one random "anonymous" person's opinion causing that much trouble? Its an opinion, of one person, who cares?
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I think what Lempkee meant is the often spammy and pot stirring nature of Transition's news postings.
As for the author of the opinion piece, well put. It's opinion and doesn't need much debate, I'm sure we all feel differently about situations like this to some extent.
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But isn't Middleman one of CUSA's resellers? So how can his/her comments be objective?
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CUSA hasn't "taken" anything from the "community". All they've done is used the brand to market Linux PC's and rolled out a fork of the Linux Mint distribution which is a fork of the Ubuntu distribution which is a fork of the Debian distribution. This has absolutely zero negative impact on the retro hobbyist interested in classic Amigas, Amiga emulation (both hardware and software) and NG Amiga systems.
If one is upset with what is being done with the brand identity, it doesn't make sense to blame CUSA. When a dog takes a crap in your front yard, do you blame the dog? Of course not, you blame the owner for not controlling their animal. If you're pissed about a check mark logo with the label "Amiga" carved into the case of a Linux PC, blame Amiga, Inc, they're the owner of the brand identity.
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Why is this one random "anonymous" person's opinion causing that much trouble? Its an opinion, of one person, who cares?
maybe because what she has to say strikes a chord with a lot of us.
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Once again, a rare voice of sanity raises itself above the background noise! :-)
CUSA hasn't "taken" anything from the "community". All they've done is used the brand to market Linux PC's and rolled out a fork of the Linux Mint distribution which is a fork of the Ubuntu distribution which is a fork of the Debian distribution. This has absolutely zero negative impact on the retro hobbyist interested in classic Amigas, Amiga emulation (both hardware and software) and NG Amiga systems.
If one is upset with what is being done with the brand identity, it doesn't make sense to blame CUSA. When a dog takes a crap in your front yard, do you blame the dog? Of course not, you blame the owner for not controlling their animal. If you're pissed about a check mark logo with the label "Amiga" carved into the case of a Linux PC, blame Amiga, Inc, they're the owner of the brand identity.
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Dumbshít.
****stain.
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CUSA hasn't "taken" anything from the "community". All they've done is used the brand to market Linux PC's and rolled out a fork of the Linux Mint distribution which is a fork of the Ubuntu distribution which is a fork of the Debian distribution. This has absolutely zero negative impact on the retro hobbyist interested in classic Amigas, Amiga emulation (both hardware and software) and NG Amiga systems.
Jesus, you really don't have a problem with what is going on? You don't see how bastardizing the Amiga name is going to affect us all? For outside observers all they will see is CUSA and you don't see the significance of this will do to our precious community? What are you completely retarded*?
I notice your name is highlighted in blue with the words vip/donor written underneath it. This implies you are of someone who commands great respect in these parts. I think you should be stripped of this as you don't deserve it.
If one is upset with what is being done with the brand identity, it doesn't make sense to blame CUSA. When a dog takes a crap in your front yard, do you blame the dog? Of course not, you blame the owner for not controlling their animal. If you're pissed about a check mark logo with the label "Amiga" carved into the case of a Linux PC, blame Amiga, Inc, they're the owner of the brand identity.
:confused:
Strange analogy
*pardon my French ;)
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CUSA hasn't "taken" anything from the "community". All they've done is used the brand to market Linux PC's and rolled out a fork of the Linux Mint distribution which is a fork of the Ubuntu distribution which is a fork of the Debian distribution. This has absolutely zero negative impact on the retro hobbyist interested in classic Amigas, Amiga emulation (both hardware and software) and NG Amiga systems.
If one is upset with what is being done with the brand identity, it doesn't make sense to blame CUSA. When a dog takes a crap in your front yard, do you blame the dog? Of course not, you blame the owner for not controlling their animal. If you're pissed about a check mark logo with the label "Amiga" carved into the case of a Linux PC, blame Amiga, Inc, they're the owner of the brand identity.
Good post. Too many commodore fanboys that get upset easily. The more companies using "amiga" type name brings more recongnition to "amiga" community. And maybe gets some guys to drag their classics out of the closet.
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Good post. Too many commodore fanboys that get upset easily. The more companies using "amiga" type name brings more recognition to "amiga" community. And maybe gets some guys to drag their classics out of the closet.
Or, it could back fire and cause some people to abandon their classic Amiga's. This is affecting the communities image. Not necessarily for the better.
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Or, it could back fire and cause some people to abandon their classic Amiga's. This is affecting the communities image. Not necessarily for the better.
Cummon Kesa the community's image died back in September 2010.....
My view: How can you rob somebody if they pay to play.
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You know what? I've worked under pressure too. It makes me irritable and snappish sometimes - what it doesn't make me is a crude, tactless gasbag filled with unwarranted self-importance. In the two years CUSA have been active around here, Barry has been consistently rude to anybody who questions his actions or his plans, has allowed his company to post a large number of blatantly fake promotional materials (honestly, a trained monkey could do a better job with Photoshop,) and only sends Leo around to cozy up to the community when he really puts his foot in it (despite repeated assertions that we're "not the target market.") This isn't a matter of budgetary limitations or lack of confidence in the market, this is a matter of Barry being a sleaze.
I'm not affiliated with CUSA, but if I was its CEO I would apologise to you here....yes they handled that rather badly. If anything I would say just please don't judge Barry too hard.....he's a firm Commodorian for sure, just not a PR kind of guy....
That's a load of shít. In two years, all we've gotten are comically overpriced PC builds in some-degree-of-customized cases and constant assurances that something actually Amiga-related is definitely probably maybe in the works, in the distant future, if everything goes well. No plans, no details, no nothing. It's a stalling tactic, and it's screamingly obvious.
Point taken.....the prices are rather high I agree I don't doubt that. But also, you need to remember that the reason why we now have much higher component costs compared to yesteryear is, first, we have inflation. From something costing $500 in 1985 will be around $980 today. But also you can blame CBM....it's manufacturing process was superior! How on Earth Jack Tramiel can keep such amazing tech so low was a testament to his judgement and intellect as a businessmen.
That said, the closest we've had yet in recent years with this idea of 'computers for the masses not the classes' has been Apple. The current iPad is successful because it is actually following a Tramiel-style tactic with vertical integration of the manufacturing process. Apple can do this because it has its own plants. Having your own chip-fab plant goes a long way to maintaining costs in the long run, and Steve Jobs was well shrewd when he acquired PA Semi.
If I could reach you, I would smack you. I've done as much bagging on the X1000 as anybody, but for all my problems with the product, Trevor has shown guts and know-how and passion. He's the kind of person that deserves accolades for mere accomplishment, if we're going to be giving them out. Barry is a furniture reseller trying to make a fast buck off whatever gullible dupes he can scrape together, and he's not one hundredth the scrappy underdog enterpreneur that Trevor is (to say nothing of guys like Jens or the NatAmi team.)
Actually I quite like the X1000 believe it or not. Same goes with the Natami...I actually like it (ever since I heard about it). I'm surprised the go ahead hasn't been given to support the Natami chipset from Amiga Inc. It looks promising....
The difference being that Amikit actually makes things that I might want. Giving CUSA money for things I have no desire for and can't afford is not going to get me anywhere closer to the things I'd actually like, it's going to encourage them to produce more things I don't want and can't afford.
Well with the current prices of new components being produced, we're not going to expect miracles in terms of pricing. After all, Amiga IS a 20+ year old product....new stuff is bound to cost more and old stuff less....
I gave them plenty of time, and they've not only failed to provide any evidence of progress in any direction I'd like to see progress in, they've manage to alienate damn near everyone in this community. I think that says it all, really.
I know you're anxious but CUSA is still young, and I think giving it 2 years is still a little premature. As someone else said, you need to give them about 5 years to see whether they've succeeded (or not). But then again you are talking about the restart of a 58-year old brand with at least 40 years of business experience and manufacturing prowess behind it before it fell....it'll take CUSA I reckon a fair amount of time before they could get to their level...
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"That said, the closest we've had yet in recent years with this idea of 'computers for the masses not the classes' has been Apple. The current iPad is successful because it is actually following a Tramiel-style tactic with vertical integration of the manufacturing process. Apple can do this because it has its own plants. Having your own chip-fab plant goes a long way to maintaining costs in the long run, and Steve Jobs was well shrewd when he acquired PA Semi.
"
Vertical integration? Do you mean sourcing? Apple rebadges components, they don't have their own plants. The A5 is made by Samsung. PA Semi was a competitive acquision IMO. The engineers now work for Apple on chip R&D.
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But isn't Middleman one of CUSA's resellers? So how can his/her comments be objective?
Well I try to be as much as I can whenever I can.....
About the reseller part, no I am not a dealer! Not currently or ever has been! This is the first time I've ever asked for this kind of thing. I was just enquiring about it because I was just curious as to what the plans are - it's nothing more than that to be honest. I already have a job (I run a small printing business here in Asia) so I don't need any more than I can handle as it were....
But if I do change my mind about it (as I've loved computers and the Commodore brand all my life), I'll let you know....
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Cummon Kesa the community's image died back in September 2010.....
My view: How can you rob somebody if they pay to play.
The Amiga will never die!!!
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Vertical integration? Do you mean sourcing? Apple rebadges components, they don't have their own plants. The A5 is made by Samsung. PA Semi was a competitive acquision IMO. The engineers now work for Apple on chip R&D.
Isn't the correct term horizontal integration? Or is that the same as sourcing? To me it sounds like a matrix (combination of both).
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Jesus, you really don't have a problem with what is going on? You don't see how bastardizing the Amiga name is going to affect us all? For outside observers all they will see is CUSA and you don't see the significance of this will do to our precious community? What are you completely retarded*?
I notice your name is highlighted in blue with the words vip/donor written underneath it. This implies you are of someone who commands great respect in these parts. I think you should be stripped of this as you don't deserve it.
Erm, I don't see that at all, sorry. In fact it will I reckon probably benefit the Amiga communities because it could trigger people who might remember the old machine and make them want to get back onto it....
And even through efforts like emulation, more people using Amiga Forever/Lemon Amiga all the communities may benefit...
Take me for example. I haven't had an old Amiga for a long long time, but all this talk of a 'new' Amiga is getting my appetites whet for an old one....am currently looking for a decent spec. :)
So getting the Amiga brand out there is mutually beneficial I reckon because its seen by so many people to be a 'performance and creative brand'.....it doesn't bastardize it....no not at all....
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Isn't the correct term horizontal integration? Or is that the same as sourcing? To me it sounds like a matrix (combination of both).
Erm, no it's not...
In business-speak, horizontal integration is when you acquire or have, businesses in similar markets. ie. when Morrisons took over Safeways that was horizontal integration because it was taking out a competitor to expand there business outreach. Vertical integration is when you acquire or control a business product/service from the top down, from design to output.
In Apple's case, they acquired PA Semi's plant and not just had their engineers, but they did own a plant in the States. Yes Samsung makes the A5 chip, but the first A4 chip used in the first iPad was produced at that plant...
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So getting the Amiga brand out there is mutually beneficial I reckon because its seen by so many people to be a 'performance and creative brand'.....it doesn't bastardize it....no not at all....
Getting the Amiga brand out there is not beneficial if the result is that the whole IT world laughs at it - and that's exactly what's happening and will happen as long as the C=USA people take the whole world for idiots.
To succeed in business you need a USP (Unique Selling Point). C=USA has a USP of its name, but it's just not enough to counter the extraordinarily high prices.
The Amiga name is being dragged through the mud and being thought of by the real world as some kind of court jester - and still people wonder why the real Amiga people - the people who've worked so hard, and taken such risks for so little money - don't like C=USA.
The swift reduction of $500 off the Amiga Mini is evidence of this - for them to be able to cut the price so much, that means the $500 must have been sheer profit. Not only that, but if they're now selling for $2000, that means they must STILL be making profit.
In other words, all C=USA are doing are trying to make a massive profit very quickly from people who don't know what they're buying, but it won't work. They tried it at "ludicrous mark-up" and it didn't work, so they're now just trying it at "stupid mark-up".
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Erm, no it's not...
In business-speak, horizontal integration is when you acquire or have, businesses in similar markets. ie. when Morrisons took over Safeways that was horizontal integration because it was taking out a competitor to expand there business outreach. Vertical integration is when you acquire or control a business product/service from the top down, from design to output.
In Apple's case, they acquired PA Semi's plant and not just had their engineers, but they did own a plant in the States. Yes Samsung makes the A5 chip, but the first A4 chip used in the first iPad was produced at that plant...
Got it. i always get those 2 mixed up.
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The reality is that there will never be a real 'NEW' Amiga. However, there are still a lot of new hardware available for the 'classic' Amiga platform and any serious user should consider supporting these manufacturers by purchasing their product/s. What makes the Commodore-Amiga the best by far is the ease of use, small memory footprint, affordability, custom chipset, games and the community as a whole. Something that no PC or MAC will ever achieve.
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originally Amiga Inc did not care about AmigaOS stuff, they just wanted to use Amigans. That pissed off the community.
later Amiga Inc did some things for the community, but I think it was too little too late.
Now Amiga inc is messing our world again by selling the name to get some $$$ and at the same time messing up chances of AmigaOS NG to utilize it's famous name.
but it seems C= is willing to do something to co-operate.
Our community can do nothing to stop Amiga Inc from selling the name again and again. But we can be open minded for co-operation.
Example:
I personally would welcome the AmigaMini case to be sold with mini-ITX AmigaOS4 capable motherboards, without the Commodore sticker, just with the Amiga engravings.
To me it seems possible (0.1% chance or so) that C= could be helping AmigaOS fans some way in the future.
(re: their offer at the end of the last year)
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I found no evidence that CommodoreUSA have ever put anything into the Amiga community. They only want to take.
Well, with their "Amiga" computers they already have created a community that's maybe 10-50 times the size of the war field you're calling "Amiga community" (because there's nothing but blue vs red fights, hates,...).
And btw, the only group not wanting to take anything is AROS: they work for free, and give anything for free. Do you think asking $2000 for a $250 g5-like computer is giving to the community ? I'm not sure... Apart from restricting Amiga access even more, I don't see what it's giving...
Now, I'm not saying CBM USA is doing anything right or wrong. I just think they're doing what everyone else does: asking for your money. There's no such thing as giving...
You might think asking $2000 for an outdated PPC custom board with an Amiga sticker is more "right" than asking $3000 for a high end x86 board with an Amiga sticker. Well, I don't see any difference.
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Well, with their "Amiga" computers ..., I don't see any difference.
IMHO, x1000 truly is different than the mainstream (and I do not mean it is not outdated or that it's any better etc...). But being truly different (even if only some geeky AOS way) should have some meaning to some people.
C=AmigaMini is just a few hundred dollar standard x86 that is put in chinese case with 2500+USD C=Amiga sticker.
(and my 50USD AmigaInc T-Shirt is far better in every aspect)
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I rarely defend the OS4 hardware offerings, because they are so expensive, but in a broader sense I will defend all the NG Amiga offerings.
1 - not all OS4 hardware is $2000. On a good day, you could pick a SAM/OS4 system up on ebay for under $500, albeit used. There are many flavors of AOS 4 PPC boards available, from the lowly SAM 440ep like I have, to the X1000. Prie has always been a barrier of entry for AOS people, and I suspect it always will be unless they port the OS to PPC Mac's.
2 - We are never going to get past this pissing match of what individual people see as a "true Amiga". We all have different views. But I know one thing - I can take an old, legacy 68k Amiga program and put it on my SAM/AOS machine and it generally works unless it bangs hardware. I can do the same with a MOS PPC Mac. AROS has come a long way in running older Amiga programs without a hitch as well.
I cannot say that for commodity PC hardware in a prefab case with an "Amiga" etching on it that runs Linux, unless they are really going to pull a rabbit out of the hat at last minute, you're buying a PC running Linux. If C-USA had come up with a way where I can simply click on a legacy Amiga program via desktop on their OS right out of the box, it's a PC to me. A PC I could throw together with free UAE and the ROM's I already own for a fraction of the price. I use what works for me, which lately is my SAM and a stripped down XP lite machine that boots directly into 3.1 via WinUAE.
Which one is more of a true Amiga? In the most specific of terms and definitions, some people don't consider any machine without custom chips an Amiga. Fair enough.
The original Amiga was revolutionary, not evolutionary. Was something brand new, completely out of left field. We will never see anything like that again, I suspect. It's all about what works for you, I suppose. Some people spend thousands of dollars building killer, superfast towerised A1200's. Some buy cheap Mac's and run MorphOS. Some buy the Acube boards and run OS 4.1.
Some just stick with with spare x86 PC's, running their choice of emulation solutions. Some will certainly see the charm of Commodore USA's products, and they will purchase them. I hope they are happy with their systems, sincerely - but I am also the first to point out the foibles in their specced builds, lol. I have built my own systems for nearly 20 years, and wouldn't buy what they are offering, even at cost.
Shouting at the top of ones lungs that "THIS IS THE FUTURE" while trying to drive 500 watts worth of PC components with a 120 watt PSU is something I will gladly point out is a recipe for disaster.
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I'm not affiliated with CUSA, but if I was its CEO I would apologise to you here....yes they handled that rather badly. If anything I would say just please don't judge Barry too hard.....he's a firm Commodorian for sure, just not a PR kind of guy....
Don't judge him? Don't judge him based on two years of observed public behavior? What the hell am I supposed to judge him on? If someone is consistently, observably a douche and a sleaze for two straight years, that's not an issue of "not a PR kind of guy," that's a track record. Even if we had any evidence to believe that he's a "firm Commodorian" (we don't,) everything he's said and done in the past two years has been ample indication not to trust him with anything, least of all my money.
Point taken.....the prices are rather high I agree I don't doubt that. But also, you need to remember that the reason why we now have much higher component costs compared to yesteryear is, first, we have inflation. From something costing $500 in 1985 will be around $980 today.
That's another load of shít. Computers in general are massively cheaper today than they were in 1985, inflation notwithstanding, and I can buy a perfectly good assortment of hardware at the Commodore 64's initial price, desktop or laptop. CUSA's machines aren't ludicrously expensive because of inflation; people have priced out equivalent-spec machines to the "Amiga Mini" and come up with a price tage of $900-1300. (Including the etching.) They're ludicrously expensive because Barry is adding massive markup in hopes that some dumbass will be stupid enough to order one.
That said, the closest we've had yet in recent years with this idea of 'computers for the masses not the classes' has been Apple. The current iPad is successful because it is actually following a Tramiel-style tactic with vertical integration of the manufacturing process. Apple can do this because it has its own plants. Having your own chip-fab plant goes a long way to maintaining costs in the long run, and Steve Jobs was well shrewd when he acquired PA Semi.
Uhh, no. Putting aside the issue that sourcing and rebadging ≠ vertical integration, Apple sells laptops-without-keyboards with a paltry amount of RAM and Flash storage up to less than half the capacity of the hard drive in my three-year-old netbook at prices you can buy a full laptop for, and their actual laptops for much more. That "computers for everyone" jazz is just marketing babble.
Well with the current prices of new components being produced, we're not going to expect miracles in terms of pricing. After all, Amiga IS a 20+ year old product....new stuff is bound to cost more and old stuff less....
Again, if we're talking commodity hardware, that's purest bullshít - the comparison between price and computing power today and 20 years ago is absolutely mind-blowing. And it's beside the point, anyway - whether or not their prices were justified, how would shelling out for things I don't want encourage a company to give me what I do want?
I know you're anxious but CUSA is still young, and I think giving it 2 years is still a little premature. As someone else said, you need to give them about 5 years to see whether they've succeeded (or not). But then again you are talking about the restart of a 58-year old brand with at least 40 years of business experience and manufacturing prowess behind it before it fell....it'll take CUSA I reckon a fair amount of time before they could get to their level...
Two years of douchebaggery, fast talk, and shoddy manufacturing isn't "a little premature," it's a God-damn tradition.
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There is no one that will produce an "Amiga" that was like the Amigas of yore. First because the market is different, computers are an appliance now, back then they were a novelty. And second because the the technology has become more specialised and mature. Nobody is going to knock out a killer graphics board in their basement, let alone a killer machine that is years ahead of the competition. Apple could, but they won't because the slow leak of technology gives them an assured next generation as the release the current generation.
Basically what we are left with are two choices, stay with the past, and modest improvements of the past (aOS 4.x, mOS) or go with the designer label Amiga and Commodore.
Actually their is a third choice, the new Commodore Amigas mean there is no future for Amiga as a unique and exceptional product and it's time to move on, providing a convenient exit point from the community.
Barry's decision to go to the mom and pop computer stores means at best a fragmented product of a thousand different configurations and specs. And they will likely sell the product with Windows rather than a tarted up old version of Linux Mint.
I know Barry has dreams of copying Apple's legions of amateur software producers with his own software store, but he doesn't have a product that warrants a market, nor a unique and powerful development environment.
When I look at Berry of C=USA I am reminded more of Ron Popiel than Steve Jobs.
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When I look at Berry of C=USA I am reminded more of Ron Popiel than Steve Jobs.
What a terrible thing to say about Ron Popeil...
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But being truly different (even if only some geeky AOS way) should have some meaning to some people.
We didn't like the Amiga because it was "different". Actually it wasn't much different by then: most every personal computers were using the very same 68000 (Atari ST, Mac, most consoles,...). Other computers had custom chips as well, doing kinda the same things: blits, scrolls, sprites.
We liked the Amiga because it was more powerful than anything else: more colors, faster graphics, better sound,...
And add to that the quite advanced OS by then.
Now, producing a kinda different PPC motherboard that adds nothing at all more powerful than other computers has very little sense to me. And having some kind of underpowered Xena chip (which usage has yet to be demonstrated outside embed stuff) or a slightly modified PCIe Xorro port doesn't make it more Amiga than any standard x86/powerPC machine.
Seeing how fast the market moves and the money that's spent by the big companies like Nvidia, Intel,... I don't think it's possible to have anything more powerful than what they are doing, so what's the point of wasting resources doing it ?
The only interesting difference that can be made is in software. Or with (truely) Amiga-like hardware like the Natami: that can bring fun, and people...
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Well, with their "Amiga" computers they already have created a community that's maybe 10-50 times the size of the war field you're calling "Amiga community".
Back it up big mouth! You say something like that I need to see proof. So do it, show me that CUSA have actually got a "community" that is at least 10 times the size of existing AmigaOS, AROS, and MOS user base. I'm getting real sick of people using made up figures to back up wild opinion that they put forward as fact. If your going to say something like that then let's see the numbers.
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I would comment that the person who wrote this, is a wise person. CUSA is making shame of Amiga. Its sad, how they just dont care about the community. CUSA could help AEON with production of AmigaOne X1000 instead, or making an PPC Amiga into the Amiga Mini box they have made. MacMini runs MorphOS nicely etc. To be able to run AmigaOS4 is great and refreshing.
"Amiga Will never Die! Never!"
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I would comment that the person who wrote this, is a wise person. CUSA is making shame of Amiga. Its sad, how they just dont care about the community. CUSA could help AEON with production of AmigaOne X1000 instead, or making an PPC Amiga into the Amiga Mini box they have made. MacMini runs MorphOS nicely etc. To be able to run AmigaOS4 is great and refreshing.
"Amiga Will never Die! Never!"
Well I wouldn't put it that way....there is still light at the end of the tunnel...
It's not like Leo hasn't tried before.....he has. I remember speaking to him last year about how things were getting on, and he said he had been in touch with the relevant Amiga parties including Jerri Elsworth and Aeon to work on things. With Aeon there were certain issues that they came across which prevented them from going ahead using their boards, and that was to do with the yields that were coming out of the X1000 board manufacturing. Unfortunately for the numbers CUSA was requesting, they weren't consistent enough in terms of quality for 'modern day' public consumption level (where factories in Asia fare better in terms of yield), so CUSA was hesitant to go ahead with it. Small numbers Aeon was fine with, but larger numbers they encountered problems. It may be better now I don't know, but that's what I had heard...
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Regarding original post ... Well said.
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Regarding original post ... Well said.
Yes I agree she has a point...the original Amiga was a tough act to follow....and still is. Even Commodore themselves had a problem getting it replaced....think about that! :lol:
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Why the anonimity?
Is an internet forum not anonomous enough?
If a guy had written this there would have been far less interest.
For all that the CUSA machines can never satisfactory be called an Amiga until they come with an Amiga OS they have provided something concrete in the past and if they can somehow unite with say hyperion it could be quite exciting.
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I would comment that the person who wrote this, is a wise person. CUSA is making shame of Amiga. Its sad, how they just dont care about the community. CUSA could help AEON with production of AmigaOne X1000 instead, or making an PPC Amiga into the Amiga Mini box they have made. MacMini runs MorphOS nicely etc. To be able to run AmigaOS4 is great and refreshing.
"Amiga Will never Die! Never!"
Well there is a definite split between those of us who are using PPC based NG OS' and the X86 camp.
Obviously, AROS would run on the new "Amiga Mini". And many of you have pushed for X86 ports of OS4 and MorphOS (and have been told that the former isn't happening and the latter isn't happening soon).
I don't think CUSA's market would be very large with a PPC based system.
Barry's just trying to make money.
I don't think that our community factors into his equations significantly.
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Why the anonimity?
Is an internet forum not anonomous enough?
It's not like it's hard to guess who it is and she hasn't been friendly to C=USA for a long period of time, if ever. If she had posted it under her name, then it would have been a normal anti C=USA poster rant. By going as anonymous, the (Amiga.org management) give her a possible air of credibility that she wouldn't get under her normal Amiga Community nick.
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@ Dammy
We already know your opinion.
In the past, I've been willing to give Barry the benefit of the doubt.
But Mint Linux is not an Amiga operating system.
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It's not like Leo hasn't tried before.....he has. I remember speaking to him last year about how things were getting on, and he said he had been in touch with the relevant Amiga parties including Jerri Elsworth and Aeon to work on things.
Yes, they did say they had talked with Jerri - evidently nothing ever came of that (assuming "we talked with her" doesn't simply mean "we sent off an email and want to make that sound grandiose.") Leo is...better than Barry, at least, but although he at least understands that maybe alienating half the Amiga community isn't a good thing, he's merely running damage control for all the stupid things Barry says and does. Ultimately he's stuck playing Information Minister (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Saeed_al-Sahhaf) to Barry's banana-dictatorship antics; even if he does care for the community, it's not like he can actually achieve anything working for a guy who expressly doesn't give a damn.
Why the anonimity?
Is an internet forum not anonomous enough?
Given some of the reactions, I presume the OP simply didn't feel like dealing with all the "OMG A GIRL ON THE AMIGA FORUMS" posts in person...
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Back it up big mouth! You say something like that I need to see proof. So do it, show me that CUSA have actually got a "community" that is at least 10 times the size of existing AmigaOS, AROS, and MOS user base. I'm getting real sick of people using made up figures to back up wild opinion that they put forward as fact. If your going to say something like that then let's see the numbers.
Hi,
@Tripitaka,
Don't go getting your panties in a tightwad, does it really, really matter. Yes we are all sad about what happened to Amiga, but we have to look at things with a realistic view. The sad truth is, that maybe back in 1992 we could of had the Amiga pulled out, but today with everything modern day computers can do, there is hardly any new innovation to bring out. I mean my gosh, my son just bought a 3D monitor with a couple of 3D games, the games just jump out at you, and yes the PC world is now going 3D gaming, with sound so realistic that I can hear the noisy guy trying to sneak up behind me trying to cut my throat. I turn and look and get ready to fight, and the 3D knife that swings at me makes me want to jumpback in fear, it is that realistic. So tell me exactly what you want from the new Amiga. I mean for gosh sakes I just altered my dogs head with a pancake on it in about 5 minutes, using Linux open source paint programs. The Amiga at one time was the leader in high tech computers, how long do you think it will take MorphOS, AROS, Natami, etc. to get up to where the Amiga was, then think "How long will it take to catch up to where Linux is at today. We aren't even talking about Windows with it's professional software or Macs with its professional software.
So just maybe CUSA's Linux/Amiga pack isn't really that bad, it gives you a pretty up to date Linux software package with the ability to use Amiga software.
I won't buy one basically because I am computer literate in about several systems, old and new, and my computers have the same thing CUSA is doing and you know the average Joe out there who dropped Amiga and C64 years ago just might buy it for the memories of back then, but wouldn't buy a new Amgia today because of his doubt about where it will go and who is supporting it.
smerf
smerf
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hi,
@Iggy,
[But Mint Linux is not an Amiga operating system]
I agree it is not an Amiga OS, but Amiga OS was an off shoot of Unix, and Linux is also an off shoot of Unix.
So they are all related and are as one.
smerf
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You know what, though? If it's really true that the only worthwhile goal for the Amiga is to be on the technological bleeding edge, and it's really so impossible for it to achieve that goal and still be at all Amiga-like, then frankly it's just time to lay it to rest, not to flay the skin off the corpse and parade something else around dressed in it.
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CUSA hasn't "taken" anything from the "community". All they've done is used the brand to market Linux PC's and rolled out a fork of the Linux Mint distribution which is a fork of the Ubuntu distribution which is a fork of the Debian distribution. This has absolutely zero negative impact on the retro hobbyist interested in classic Amigas, Amiga emulation (both hardware and software) and NG Amiga systems.
If one is upset with what is being done with the brand identity, it doesn't make sense to blame CUSA. When a dog takes a crap in your front yard, do you blame the dog? Of course not, you blame the owner for not controlling their animal. If you're pissed about a check mark logo with the label "Amiga" carved into the case of a Linux PC, blame Amiga, Inc, they're the owner of the brand identity.
lol! QFT
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It's not like it's hard to guess who it is and she hasn't been friendly to C=USA for a long period of time, if ever. If she had posted it under her name, then it would have been a normal anti C=USA poster rant. By going as anonymous, the (Amiga.org management) give her a possible air of credibility that she wouldn't get under her normal Amiga Community nick.
listen to yourself!
ohwell, as usual, everything that comes out of your mouth is nothing more than trollbait and lame excuses.
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...with the relevant Amiga parties including Jerri Elsworth and Aeon...
Umm...are those the only relevant Amiga parties out there?
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I too have received mail from an Amiga.org member who wished to express his opinion on the Amiga Mini but remain anonymous. He has lurked here since 2001 and has been using Amigas since 1986. He is also a well-known voice actor and would be instantly recognizable if heard. He may or may not have appeared in movies such as "Seabiscuit" and "Secretariat", and today runs a popular blog on Horse Bloggers under a pseudonym which I will also not reveal. But rest assured he does exist and this is his opinion:
No sir, I didn't like it!
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I got an email from myself that I didn't remember sending, so please consider this to be anonymous.
It said:
it's ****e
Don't tell anyone.
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what do you get if CUSA paid for an OS4 port for the Amiga Mini ?
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hi,
@Iggy,
[But Mint Linux is not an Amiga operating system]
I agree it is not an Amiga OS, but Amiga OS was an off shoot of Unix, and Linux is also an off shoot of Unix.
So they are all related and are as one.
smerf
Well Smerf,
Microware OS9 for 68K is an RTOS distantly related to Unix and my company used to build computers based on it in the 80's and 90's.
But I wouldn't claim the systems I was building were in anyway related to Amigas (except for the similar processors).
OSX IS BSD (very much Unix) and Apple's not selling Amigas.
And even current versions of Windows (since the NT kernel) can claim a slight relationship to Unix, but Windows boxes aren't Amigas.
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what do you get if CUSA paid for an OS4 port for the Amiga Mini ?
Not happening. Hyperion isn't porting to X86.
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what do you get if CUSA paid for an OS4 port for the Amiga Mini ?
twice the fail?
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Hi,
@Tripitaka,
Don't go getting your panties in a tightwad, does it really, really matter.
Yes it does. I have no problem with opinion or fact but opinion as fact is just distortion of truth and has no place in any discussion among adults. I'm British dammit and I just wont tolerate that sort of tomfoolery.
As to what I want from a new Amiga; To be honest I liked the approach that Henrycase proposed on this page:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=60529&page=7
Memrisistor FPGA based hardware would be a good start. In the mean time CUSA should have licensed the Amiga name to Hyperion and worked alongside the Natami team for a genuine OS3.9 Commodore Amiga. In many ways a memresistor FPGA based Amiga would have seemed quite a natural evolution from the SAMs, X1000 and Natami as they all have FPGA or XMOS, ie. programmable chips. If only they had asked me.
And whilst I'm thinking about it, a PPC card for Natami and a Super-AGA board for SAM and X1000 would add a nice touch of unity.
This would all require co-operation between CUSA, Hyperion and the Natami team of course so I can't see it happening.
This is all only my opinion of course, everyone is entitled to one.
Come to think of it OS3.9 has a few libraries and datatypes etc.. that have been updated by other people and could do with a few other tweaks. Perhaps a fresh coat of paint would be good for a Commodore Amiga Natami release, they could call it AmigaOS Trinity or something else funky.
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Tha's not an opinion friend, you speak facts.
This lump of circuitry ain't Amiga in any sence of the word.
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I don't know why people feel the need to be anonymous when telling these things. I'm new here so I may not know the rules or if there is a Big Brother out there or anything. If someone wanna enlighten me that is.
I think it's pretty obvious that when it comes to Amiga, Commodore failed in the past and they keep on failing in the present. It's not that it's a bad machine in itself, I just wish they didn't freaking use the name Amiga!
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Well Cloanto also put zero money into new Amiga hardware or OS development/application projects after pimping their inferior compilation of the FREE WinUAE emulator. C=USA are one of many such scum as you can see.
I also owned a 1986 PAL A1000...1989 A2000 with 8mb.....1st launch £399 A1200 on release day....1994 A4000+CD32.
Here are 2 simple rules....
1. If it has no Paula chip it is no Amiga.
2. If it can't execute Defender of the Crown natively without any emulator it is not an Amiga system/Amiga OS.
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Oy, some wannabe journalist for PC World has put a story up about this piece of flot: http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/252392/amiga_computer_awakened_from_sleep_with_makeover.html
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Oy, some wannabe journalist for PC World has put a story up about this piece of flot: http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/252392/amiga_computer_awakened_from_sleep_with_makeover.html
I already reviewed his "review"
here (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=685359&postcount=103)
#6
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Here are 2 simple rules....
1. If it has no Paula chip it is no Amiga.
2. If it can't execute Defender of the Crown natively without any emulator it is not an Amiga system/Amiga OS.
I guess we all have our own definition of what makes/made the Amiga great. I think it's the OS (loved 3.1 when I used it) and that's why I like AOS 4.1 since it remind me much of it. But except for nostalgic reasons I don't think you can linger on to now outdated hardware, no matter how good it was at the time. The classic Amigas will always be great and are still fun to use, but for me who wants to use a modern Amiga I think NG Amigas with AOS 4.1 will be my choice of purchase.
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I guess we all have our own definition of what makes/made the Amiga great. I think it's the OS (loved 3.1 when I used it) and that's why I like AOS 4.1 since it remind me much of it. But except for nostalgic reasons I don't think you can linger on to now outdated hardware, no matter how good it was at the time. The classic Amigas will always be great and are still fun to use, but for me who wants to use a modern Amiga I think NG Amigas with AOS 4.1 will be my choice of purchase.
Obviously closer to my own sentiment, except I'm no longer that fixated on the name.
Originally Posted by Digiman (http://www.amiga.org/forums/web/buttons/viewpost.gif) (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=685387#post685387)
Here are 2 simple rules....
1. If it has no Paula chip it is no Amiga.
2. If it can't execute Defender of the Crown natively without any emulator it is not an Amiga system/Amiga OS.
[/I]
You don't seriously think a modern Amiga would contain a Paula chip do you? That's as unlikely as a new 68K processor.
While I admire the persistence of the Natami team and really like the replay board, neither of these projects is going to take the place of a modern computer.
An new Amiga, at least in my mind, would be better built on something similar to what's going into today's gaming consoles (with,ob viously more memory and expansion).
But then again, there we go with the opinions.
One thing I think most of us agree on, it wouldn't be a PC.
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While I don't actually like or dislike CUSA (I mostly just don't care about them, it's their biz and not mine) I think there may actually be some positive effects for this broad community.
For some reason CUSA has a talent to stir up things.
The annoncement of that "mini Amiga" made it into the paper version of the biggest "newspaper" here in Germany (albeit I have concerns to actually call that load of sh*t a newspaper). "Bild" reported about that Amiga mini online as well as printed. Whoa! Don't remember when a printed paper with a circulation of2.7 million printed copies mentioned the name Amiga last time.
If some average Joe now goes to google and types in amiga and hits return at least in Germany that Joe will be lead to wikipedia first and then straight to amiga-news.de and quite some other amiga related sites where he or she can learn about MorphOS, Arcade replay, AROS or OS4 or CUSA.
Hence my guess that CUSAs marketing eventually may do some good for this broad commuinity. Probably most "joes" will not care, but who knows...
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Any thread with the word 'woman' gets a lot of attention here, but that's not why I'm writing.
Just wanted to say that regardless of which camp(s) you're in (classic, AOS, MOS, AROS) I think 98% of us can agree that CUSA is a new low for "Amiga."
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If you ignore them, they will go away. Don't buy their stuff. Quit talking about them, it's free publicity.
How many of their web hits come from here? A marketing person would read that as interest.
This circle jerk was getting old a long time ago and now it just makes the Amiga community look pathetic.
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1. If it has no Paula chip it is no Amiga.
Never understand why you/others place so much significance on the Paula chip? It was just one of many components that made up the machine, yet some people seem to consider it THE defining feature of the platform. I don't think Paula was the amiga's most famous or 'killer' feature by a long shot. The chip was outdated and CBM were slated for not replacing it when AGA was released.
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If you ignore them, they will go away. Don't buy their stuff. Quit talking about them, it's free publicity.
How many of their web hits come from here? A marketing person would read that as interest.
If talking about it here leads unwary newcomers to A.org, where we can have an open brawl about it, instead of to CUSA's own corner of the Internet where anybody who looks at Barry funny is banned, then it's worth it for that if nothing else. As much as marketing folks like to believe otherwise, there is such a thing as bad publicity.
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Never understand why you/others place so much significance on the Paula chip? It was just one of many components that made up the machine, yet some people seem to consider it THE defining feature of the platform. I don't think Paula was the amiga's most famous or 'killer' feature by a long shot. The chip was outdated and CBM were slated for not replacing it when AGA was released.
Amiga fanatics always place too much emphasis on the chipset.
Personally, I was always more impressed by the Motorola 68K processor.
By the time the '040 and '060 processors were introduced the low bandwidth of the chipset (better suited to the relatively slow 68000 processors in the 1000 and 500) was, in some ways a hindrance.
And, sorry, but lets be honest, the long overdue AGA graphics enhancement was not that big of an improvement (a bit slow and cumbersome).
The Amiga, with its fixed function chipset is old technology.
Today's hardware has more flexible programmable structures.
A good example of this would be modern GPUs which have come to resemble massive programmable parallel processing units.
Were you to design a modern Amiga, it wouldn't have much direct relationship to it predecessors as you'd want to take advantage of the massive improvements that have occurred in electronics in the intervening decades.
So, definitely NO, a Paula is NOT required (and can be easily emulated via software if desired).
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lol! QFT
Care to explain yourself? I have no idea what you're trying to convey here.
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Care to explain yourself? I have no idea what you're trying to convey here.
lol = "Your comment was witty, well thought, and succinct. I found it droll."
QFT = "Quoted for its truthfulness, in case of the original post's deletion or disappearance into a wormhole."
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It's been awhile since I visited CUSA website and I wasn't aware of the Amiga Mini PC clone.
Anyway...If you want the case, I found the exact model at this website http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_0984.html no engraving on this one.
As far as the comment in the first post, I don't think CUSA is in business to please hardcore C=/Amiga users. They're for the masses and masses remember C64.
I will probably not buy anything from them and not because I don't want it but because I can't afford it, same with X1000.
Only Apple is "allowed" to charge $2k for a PC, those minions will pay anything.
If someone ports Firefox with flash/Youtube and OpenOffice to AROS, I may switch permanently as my main surfing PC so I can avoid those nasty PC viruses.
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As far as the comment in the first post, I don't think CUSA is in business to please hardcore C=/Amiga users. They're for the masses and masses remember C64.
That's what they've said, yet they keep coming back to try to cozy up to the community when nobody in the real world wants their products...
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It's a toss up between Asha Develder and Kiki Stockhammer.
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Never understand why you/others place so much significance on the Paula chip?
I can tell you never made music on the amiga. Especially now that 8bit sound is cool again, many people in electonic scene going for that phat old skool sound. The amiga has awesome low end bass for some reason and if you try to use emulation on pcs with uae using Amiga trackers it just doesnt sound as good.
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Why would this one person opinion be a news item? That is ABSURD
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It's a toss up between Asha Develder and Kiki Stockhammer.
Ahh if only...
Sadly we lost Asha DeVelder on Jan 3, 2009.
#6
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That's what they've said, yet they keep coming back to try to cozy up to the community when nobody in the real world wants their products...
After thinking about it, if CUSA was named Amigos Computers or any other name, they would be irrelevant, they'll be just another small time clone PC manufacturer.
Installing mini-itx PC MB in a classic system been done for ever.
Like this one was made in 2003 http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/c64/
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Sometimes I think they do mean well but its hard to please people.
Here's what I think.
1) PPC is dead, dead, dead.
2) No matter what they made people would bitch.
3) PPC is still dead.
4) Hyperion ****ed them out of using AROS but people are complaining they are not using an amiga os. It could have been aros, if hyperion didn't **** them into using linux instead. If you feel that strongly about wanting an amiga os on what they are making, petition hyperion to let them use aros and stop bitching about it.
5) That vic slim is damn sexy. I could think of great things to do with one of those... Or a few of those around my house.
6) PPC is still dead.
7) When you pay for a premium company name made pc, you pay more. A dell cost more than a no name. Thats life. They deserve to get a bit more for their pc's than a no name gets. regardless of parts, price of parts, whatever.
8) All the pr problems they had could be fixed by shutting up and getting product out the door. This is hard to do if your really working your ass off.
and have to take alot of time I suppose to defend your efforts and your vision. I don't envy anyone in that position, because it sucks. If you shut up your dodging questions. If you speak your damned for speaking your mind.
9) A reboot of the commodore continuity and amiga timeline is a difficult task.
What an incredible story commodore and amiga have had. Imagine suddenly inheriting that, and suddenly being responsible for that legacy. Anyone's shoulders would be bruised by such a burden.
10) PPC is still dead, dead dead, so don't bitch they went x86. At least they acknowledge reality when planning their projects.
my two cents.
Steven
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7) When you pay for a premium company name made pc, you pay more. A dell cost more than a no name. Thats life. They deserve to get a bit more for their pc's than a no name gets. regardless of parts, price of parts, whatever.
While this is true enough, for 50-90% markup (and I'm being generous to them with that estimate,) the damn thing ought to come in a coach drawn by unicorns and driven by half a dozen attractive women who give free massages.
And anyway there's still the matter of them being shadier than a back alley at midnight, compulsively rude, and unable to think through the most basic aspects of PC design without a whole forum to point out their elementary mistakes to them.
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I can tell you never made music on the amiga. Especially now that 8bit sound is cool again, many people in electonic scene going for that phat old skool sound. The amiga has awesome low end bass for some reason and if you try to use emulation on pcs with uae using Amiga trackers it just doesnt sound as good.
You 'tell' wrong then as I spent many a happy hour in ProTracker and Octamed soundstudio, but if someone asked me "What was the defining feature of the Commodore Amiga platform, what really set it apart from everything else?", a pre-emptive multitasking operating system, a unique set of custom chips (all of them, with Agnus/Denise probably the leading ones), killer graphics, unique coin-op quality games would all come above "the Paula sound chip" for things the Amiga was famous for. Personally I consider the graphical capabilities of the Amiga much more impressive than the audio side.
The C64 was more famous for its sound chip than the Amiga, I've never really met anyone who considers the Amiga's biggest strength its audio capabilities, sure they were neat for a while, but by the time the a4000 hit it was pretty lame in comparison to other machines. Even the Atari ST I'd say was more famous for music use than the Amiga. Paula was decent enough but it was nothing unique really, by the early 90s it was decidedly average and by the time 1992 ticked around and the A4000/A1200 it was sub-par, it was an 8-bit chip in a 32-bit platform, sorry but it wasn't the most mind-blowing feature of the Amiga to me, or most people around by then.
Just baffles me I guess when I see people ask 'What makes an Amiga' and people start gushing over Paula as if that was the killer feature of the platform, never seen that outside of this forum!
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... Even the Atari ST I'd say was more famous for music use than the Amiga.
And that was not because Paula was bad. Actually Amigas audio was much better.
But Atari came with MIDI port (for Amiga you had to buy it separately) and had cheap highres black and white monitor. The display and MIDI was the key to Atari's success in Audio.
IMHO: even today PAULA is ok for Audio, it's 14bit calibrated output is very good.
Most standard x86 sound chips have things like loud background noice that make the audio experience very poor.
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And that was not because Paula was bad. Actually Amigas audio was much better.
But Atari came with MIDI port (for Amiga you had to buy it separately) and had cheap highres black and white monitor. The display and MIDI was the key to Atari's success in Audio.
IMHO: even today PAULA is ok for Audio, it's 14bit calibrated output is very good.
Most standard x86 sound chips have things like loud background noice that make the audio experience very poor.
Paula wasn't bad, it was ok, but personally I wouldn't even class it in the top 10 of amazing features of the Amiga, let alone the number 1. The graphics and OS were much more ground breaking and alluring.
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@haywirepc
The Vic Slim is somebody else's failure that C=USA attached their name to. Who wants wires coming out of your keyboard? And it's one careless Venti Caramel Mocha away from the tip....
I hear by nominate the Vic Slim for dumb arse product of the year.
(http://www.funnypostcard.com/dog/new_breed.jpg)
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... PPC is dead...
Steven
Its ALIVE!
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CHT7E5NxlXA/S1cRCxjeVPI/AAAAAAAAAjc/QWM8poUCLfI/s320/colin_clive.jpg)
IBM, Freescale, and Applied Micro would all disagree with you Steven.
As would the manufacturers of all three major gaming platforms.
AND I'd love to have one of the Nintendo Wii U's Power7 based processors in a computer system.
Its Alive whether you like it or not!
@haywirepc
The Vic Slim is somebody else's failure that C=USA attached their name to. Who wants wires coming out of your keyboard? And it's one careless Venti Caramel Mocha away from the tip....
I hear by nominate the Vic Slim for dumb arse product of the year.
(http://www.funnypostcard.com/dog/new_breed.jpg)
Oh yeah! sexy!
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Here are 2 simple rules....
1. If it has no Paula chip it is no Amiga.
2. If it can't execute Defender of the Crown natively without any emulator it is not an Amiga system/Amiga OS.
While I love classic Amigas, I don't agree with this definition. I think that even if Commodore had not died, and had instead continued to develop the Amiga line until this day, whatever modern Amiga that would have developed would have required an emulator to run the classic era stuff (like the Macs did when they switched from 68K to PPC).
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It's a toss up between Asha Develder and Kiki Stockhammer.
But how could it be Asha Develder?
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39793
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Ooh, dramatic way to make a post. Anonymous female lurker has something to say...
Your sentiments are in-line with the majority here, why so top-secret?
And btw, its hardly an "article"....
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@haywirepc
4) Hyperion ****ed them out of using AROS but people are complaining they are not using an amiga os. It could have been aros, if hyperion didn't **** them into using linux instead. If you feel that strongly about wanting an amiga os on what they are making, petition hyperion to let them use aros and stop bitching about it.
.....How did Hyperion **** CUSA out of AROS? That's total BS! How did Hyperion have anything to do with CUSA's business plan or, for that matter, the lack of one?! Does AROS contain some elements of what Hyperion rightly owns? If so then all CUSA has to do is pay Hyperion a royalty fee! If Hyperion said NO to that then that's Hyperion's business. If Hyperion's only goal is to stop Amiga OS X86 then why don't they put out a hit on the AROS Development Team?
5) That vic slim is damn sexy. I could think of great things to do with one of those... Or a few of those around my house.
....Then buy some! And put AROS on them! Better yet just put AmiKit on them!
8) All the pr problems they had could be fixed by shutting up and getting product out the door. This is hard to do if your really working your ass off.
and have to take alot of time I suppose to defend your efforts and your vision. I don't envy anyone in that position, because it sucks. If you shut up your dodging questions. If you speak your damned for speaking your mind.
....."Defend what efforts"?! What vision?! What does Hyperion or AROS have to do with CUSA's efforts?! CUSA is what it is!!! Why should Hyperion or AROS just hand over YEARS of hard work to CUSA? Just so that CUSA can reap all the profits off other peoples' backs? Is Hyperion and AROS just supposed to hand over their work for the good of the "community"? Is CUSA paying you?
9) A reboot of the commodore continuity and amiga timeline is a difficult task. What an incredible story commodore and amiga have had. Imagine suddenly inheriting that, and suddenly being responsible for that legacy. Anyone's shoulders would be bruised by such a burden.
.... INHERITING?!!!! Exactly my point!!! CUSA doesn't have the right to inherit ANYTHING! You mean STEAL? YOU ARE EFFING CRAZY!!! :crazy:
"Imagine suddenly inheriting that, and suddenly being responsible for that legacy. Anyone's shoulders would be bruised by such a burden."
Oh poor CUSA!!! TFB!!! Where do you come up with such thoughts? You make it sound like CUSA has the "RIGHT" to be some sort of dictatorship by proxy! GFY! According to you, it would seem that every company that has anything to do with AMIGA should just hand it over to CUSA! Why don't you just apply your own logic and go beg CUSA for some free stuff and see how far you get! POOR CUSA MY A$$! Oh poor CUSA is "bruised!" YAFC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Well, it really doesn't matter who wrote it, although three or four names pop into my mind while reading it.
I just wish everyone could stop beating the dead horse only to try to revive it the next day. The miggy will never be back as a serious platform, and while my hat's off to the Hyperion guys for trying to maintain it as a hobbyist platform, CUSA's overpriced hardware just seems to be a really poor business idea. A cheap Atom/Fusion based box bundled with eUAE, Amiga forever and a few decent games would probably sell better.
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1) PPC is dead, dead, dead.
It's not really dead, it's used in the big three consoles of the current generation. This does mean though that IBM won't come knocking anytime soon and are unlikely to answer our phone calls.
8) All the pr problems they had could be fixed by shutting up and getting product out the door.
They annoyed some very vocal people at the beginning and it snowballed from there. They should keep quiet and not get involved in petty squabbles, but we should judge them on the product they sell & not their personality.
The C64X and Amiga Mini case look quite nice, I've not bought either and I'd want to know I wasn't going to get any heat problems etc before I would. The price would need to move a little as well.
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In my opinion things haven't changed with the Amiga Mini, because as far as we know not one has been actually sold. They're only claiming to sell such things. But without buyers who cares?
This operation seems to be either an attempt to revive and sell an old brand name to foreign manufacturers at a profit, or an investment scheme trying to pull in investment money, and make a generous salary or two out of the operation giving "naive hopes" that it will take off one day.
In my opinion, what has been painfully obvious is that Barry hasn't had a real budget for _ANY_ development, be that hardware or software. AROS still isn't ready as a consumer OS on any of its hardware platforms, and the AGA compatible and beyond fpga clone platforms aren't ready yet either if cusa would just license ROMS and OS3.9 from Amiga Inc.. New PPC hardware is too expensive or underpowered and also requires the non-existant development funds to support it, so what does that leave for cusa to do, but to try and sell some commodity hardware with minimal cost software to pay the minimally accepted license fees with and keep the trademarks tied up on their behalf...
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Sadly we lost Asha DeVelder on Jan 3, 2009.
Yep, quite a loss..
I wrote a Solitaire game for her for the Amiga back in the day.. Never totally finished it, but it was playable.
Years later, I got back in touch with her, and found out she was still playing it!
(Or she was nice enough to lie to me about it.)
We stayed online friends after that.
Met (virtually) her on Fidonet initially..
Those were the days.. ;-)
desiv
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Yep, quite a loss..
I wrote a Solitaire game for her for the Amiga back in the day.. Never totally finished it, but it was playable.
Years later, I got back in touch with her, and found out she was still playing it!
(Or she was nice enough to lie to me about it.)
We stayed online friends after that.
Met (virtually) her on Fidonet initially..
Those were the days.. ;-)
desiv
The good folks at *teamamiga* have kept her irc channel alive in her memory. You're always welcome to drop in, unless you already do? Heh.
#6
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@haywirepc
.....How did Hyperion **** CUSA out of AROS?
The Amiga trademark may only be used for computer which don't have an OS that is AmigaOS4-like; Hyperion let it be known that they consider AROS violating this license requirement.
Anyway I think C=USA already decided not to use AROS before they could use this excuse because it needed investment to make it support all parts from their computers.
greets,
Staf.
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The Amiga trademark may only be used for computer which don't have an OS that is AmigaOS4-like; Hyperion let it be known that they consider AROS violating this license requirement.
Anyway I think C=USA already decided not to use AROS before they could use this excuse because it needed investment to make it support all parts from their computers.
greets,
Staf.
I don't remember Hyperion making a statement on this.
Amiga Inc. is forbidden from developing an OS that is substantially similar to AmigaOS (so maybe they can't license the name to someone else to pursue a similar course).
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I don't remember Hyperion making a statement on this.
Amiga Inc. is forbidden from developing an OS that is substantially similar to AmigaOS (so maybe they can't license the name to someone else to pursue a similar course).
Commodore USA to relaunch Amiga brand with series of AROS desktops
source (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=32323&forum=16&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0#577629)
Our American lawyers will take action against this.
This is blatant violation of the rights Hyperion Entertainment secured in the settlement agreement with Amiga Inc., Itec and Amino.
source (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=32323&forum=16&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#577704)
#6
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Amiga Inc. is forbidden from developing an OS that is substantially similar to AmigaOS (so maybe they can't license the name to someone else to pursue a similar course).
Is it likely that they would do that if they could though?
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I just dropped in and this article on the front page caught my eye....and I'm just reading page one and I see people are already 'taking my name in vein' :)
I didn't submit this article. it's news to me. It's an interesting point. I don't know anything about this company so i can't offer an opinion. But unless someone is selling Something then there's nothing to say.
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Hi,
@haywirepc,
I agree with you, PPC IS DEAD, even rotten core Mac computing company came down to that decision.
What you have to remember is that their are some people on Amiga.org that aren't exactly high tech. If it was up to them the 6502 or the Z80 would still be running their computers.
but
I agree with you, and I don't care how bad they flame me. If they would have gone either AMD or Intel back in 95 we wouldn't have this problem today.
Quit playing around with old junk arcahiac soon to be obsolete CPU's, just develope an operating system for the average PC. That is why I am believing in AROS rather than MorphOS.
smerf
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I just dropped in and this article on the front page caught my eye....and I'm just reading page one and I see people are already 'taking my name in vein' :)
I didn't submit this article. it's news to me. It's an interesting point. I don't know anything about this company so i can't offer an opinion. But unless someone is selling Something then there's nothing to say.
The plot thickens! :)
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Quit playing around with old junk arcahiac soon to be obsolete CPU's, just develope an operating system for the average PC.
You're against archaic CPUs, so you're endorsing an architecture from 1978?
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I just dropped in and this article on the front page caught my eye....and I'm just reading page one and I see people are already 'taking my name in vein' :)
I didn't submit this article. it's news to me. It's an interesting point. I don't know anything about this company so i can't offer an opinion. But unless someone is selling Something then there's nothing to say.
It was just a trick, CeCe, to get you to come back, 'cos all us "old-schoolers" missed you. ;P
In fact, it made me realize that you weren't around much, anymore, when people started mentioning you.
I am still convinced it was one of the Annex girls. XD
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Hi,
@commodorejohn,
just imagine a PC turning on and not booting into windows but actually booting into the Amiga updated OS. Imagine being able to surf the net with this system, play up to date 3D modern games, with graphics and sound that are real like, and yet this system still has the functionallity of the Amiga utitlities. Just getting windows off my PC's would be a joy in itself. Never having to read Microsofts EULA, or if i change memory or a hard drive, having to call some body in India to get my computer validated. Never having to worry about how many times did I install this stupid OS, is it five or three uses before I have to buy another license.
Today's modern day computers, are great, it is the stupid Windows OS we have to use that messes them up. Linux does a good job on most software, but they lack the modern day games that have come out. If the game companies programmed games for Linux, Microsoft would probably be through.
smerf
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source (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=32323&forum=16&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0#577629)
source (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=32323&forum=16&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#577704)
#6
So anonymous posts on AmigaWorld are now to be taken as legitimate corporate statements?
If AROS is legal (and I'd be willing to bet that Ben Herman's thinks it isn't) then distributing it shouldn't be actionable.
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Or, it could back fire and cause some people to abandon their classic Amiga's. This is affecting the communities image. Not necessarily for the better.
Yeah, thats logical *NOT*. Anyone using a classic amiga these days surely would NOT give it up over some something some company does.
and I still would like to know why this one person's opinion is considered a news item? Thats embarassing for the community , not Commodore usa.
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Hi,
@haywirepc,
I agree with you, PPC IS DEAD, even rotten core Mac computing company came down to that decision.
smerf
I didn't know they had any say in what other companies produced.
What you have to remember is that their are some people on Amiga.org that aren't exactly high tech. If it was up to them the 6502 or the Z80 would still be running their computers.
smerf
Actually, that would be the Motorola 68K family, some of which are still available. Amiga users don't have much use for processors that were never in their machines in the first place.
(An interesting fact - Radisys just introduced an update to OS9 for the 68K last year - its still being used)
I agree with you, and I don't care how bad they flame me. If they would have gone either AMD or Intel back in 95 we wouldn't have this problem today.
smerf
No ones going to flame you (that's your job), but I'd rather just use Windows or OSX (since AROS doesn't even support SMP)
Quit playing around with old junk arcahiac soon to be obsolete CPU's, just develope an operating system for the average PC. That is why I am believing in AROS rather than MorphOS.
smerf
I didn't know we were talking about belief systems!
Did you clap for Tinkerbell when you saw Peter Pan?
I just want an OS I can use, AROS isn't out of beta stage yet.
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just imagine a PC turning on and not booting into windows but actually booting into the Amiga updated OS. Imagine being able to surf the net with this system, play up to date 3D modern games, with graphics and sound that are real like, and yet this system still has the functionallity of the Amiga utitlities. Just getting windows off my PC's would be a joy in itself. Never having to read Microsofts EULA, or if i change memory or a hard drive, having to call some body in India to get my computer validated. Never having to worry about how many times did I install this stupid OS, is it five or three uses before I have to buy another license.
Today's modern day computers, are great, it is the stupid Windows OS we have to use that messes them up. Linux does a good job on most software, but they lack the modern day games that have come out. If the game companies programmed games for Linux, Microsoft would probably be through.
That's all very lovely, but I don't see how it makes PPC "archaic" when it's a solid thirteen years younger than x86...
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Originally Posted by smerf
Quit playing around with old junk arcahiac soon to be obsolete CPU's, just develope an operating system for the average PC.
You're against archaic CPUs, so you're endorsing an architecture from 1978?
Yes but its an architecture that has survived in the desktop and laptop market, unlike ppc.
PPC is dead dead dead.
Maybe someone should start a bounty to get aros native drivers for this amiga mini, just to stick it in hyperion's ass. I'd contribute to that and I don't even want one of those. I just don't think hyperion should stop someone from distributing aros with ANY computer, especially considering how much hyperion has benefited from work the AROS camp did.
God forbid someone choose x86 so they don't have to pay 3,000$ for a computer that a 50$ used mac mini matches.
"I just want an OS I can use, AROS isn't out of beta stage yet." - Really? and OS4 is? When did that happen? hahaha.
Steven
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Yes but its an architecture that has survived in the desktop and laptop market, unlike ppc.
PPC is dead dead dead.
Wait, how does "is not in use in desktops or laptops" equal "dead?" Just saying something doesn't make it so.
God forbid someone choose x86 so they don't have to pay 3,000$ for a computer that a 50$ used mac mini matches.
I don't have to pay $3000, I paid $10 for a Power Mac G4 at the recycle center that exceeds that Mini ;)
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That's all very lovely, but I don't see how it makes PPC "archaic" when it's a solid thirteen years younger than x86...
Don't forget, their other favorite is ARM and that died on the desktop even longer ago (Does anyone even remember Acorn?).
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I don't have to pay $3000, I paid $10 for a Power Mac G4 at the recycle center that exceeds that Mini ;)
Aw man, I paid $7 more then you!
What a rip!
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Yo! Haywire, Smerf ...I already HAVE an X86 PC and I'm not going to waste three out of four cores running AROS.
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Aw man, I paid $7 more then you!
What a rip!
For that kind of markup, it should've been CUSA-badged! ;P
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Yo! Haywire, Smerf ...I already HAVE an X86 PC and I'm not going to waste three out of four cores running AROS.
Got to LOL at this.
A complete waste would be getting a second system just to run Amigaoid OSes when
you can have it installed alongside Linux/Windows on a AMD/Intel machine.
Besides I haven't seen a program for AROS yet that needs the other cores.
A hint. It's starting to get ridiculous seeing some people having all kinds of excuses
for not running AROS. It's not like everyone is forced to use it. Try it, if you don't like
it just leave it be. There's no point going on about it forever.
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Today's modern day computers, are great, it is the stupid Windows OS we have to use that messes them up.
While I have nothing good to say about Windows, it is rather unfair to lump all of the blame on Microsoft.
The underlying PC architecture is cretinous and is the poster child of the "built by the lowest bidder" philosophy.
All of the x86-64 cpus on the roadmap will still start in real mode. Ten years from now.
I can hardly wait for 128-bit x86.. it will be like a forty stage bootstrap. I wonder if the keyboard controller will still be gating off the A20 line at that point?
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Then you should avoid MorphOS too because there is no multicore support. Or am I wrong? :-)
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The Amiga will never die!!!
U missed the point. September 2010 was when you joined Aorg Kesa, you git!
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Then you should avoid MorphOS too because there is no multicore support. Or am I wrong? :-)
+1
You might as well add to avoid the X1000 with AOS4 also because it falls in the same boat.
Only a few months ago everyone was claiming AROS wasn't out of ALPHA yet. So I guess we're improving. :)
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In my opinion things haven't changed with the Amiga Mini, because as far as we know not one has been actually sold. They're only claiming to sell such things. But without buyers who cares?
This operation seems to be either an attempt to revive and sell an old brand name to foreign manufacturers at a profit, or an investment scheme trying to pull in investment money, and make a generous salary or two out of the operation giving "naive hopes" that it will take off one day.
In my opinion, what has been painfully obvious is that Barry hasn't had a real budget for _ANY_ development, be that hardware or software. AROS still isn't ready as a consumer OS on any of its hardware platforms, and the AGA compatible and beyond fpga clone platforms aren't ready yet either if cusa would just license ROMS and OS3.9 from Amiga Inc.. New PPC hardware is too expensive or underpowered and also requires the non-existant development funds to support it, so what does that leave for cusa to do, but to try and sell some commodity hardware with minimal cost software to pay the minimally accepted license fees with and keep the trademarks tied up on their behalf...
Well I'm happy to report that a little birdy told me the new Amiga Mini has been doing great. Sales of both barebones and built systems are doing well....so it means Amiga as a brand name, is coming back into the public conscience in a big way. With more people using Amiga Forever and the like, sales of Amiga-related software would no doubt I believe, bring much needed attention (and cash) to those developers.
As for AROS, well hopefully with this resurgence it'll help them too...that's what I believe anyways. But in the meantime before their projects are ready, will probably have to try and do an impossible Amigafan task, and that is wait (ie. be patient) until they are ready. But if we've waited for nearly 20 years for a new Amiga, I am sure we can wait just a while longer.
Reading from all this though, one thing I cannot fathom is, why all the flames if CUSA does create/sell a PowerPC with AmigaOS inside it? It's not like as if CUSA is getting it for free…they are paying Hyperion for their efforts yes? (to create a port for them)? Wouldn't Hyperion need this sort of extra funding? If I was a developer I know I'd certainly would. Also regarding the IP front if the problem exists primarily with Amiga Inc. and Hyperion's contract as regards to what AmigaOS is….why can't just one company buy out the other and then lease out the AmigaOS x86 IP to CUSA? What is stopping them from doing so (since many companies do this already to resolve IP issues?).
I mean think about this. When people talk of Apple IIs & Macintoshes compared to Apple MacBooks, most folks understand that Apple IIs & Macintoshes were 'classic' systems i.e. legacy systems and realize that modern Apples run on the latest Intel chips. Yet when folks like myself here talk of legacy Commodores and Amigas and they are put it in the same sentence as USA, Intel and x86 port, everybody gets their feathers a little ruffled. What's the big deal? I don't understand it…
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Unless AOS and MorphOS finds a way to keep their operating systems up to date by making it possible to use brand new hardware with them, I seriously doubt that they will have a future. But right now something is finally happening in my point of view. That's why I'm planning to buy a Amigaone after all these years without any Amiga.
Our small community have 3 currently developing operating systems that keeps each other on edge. There are new hardware being produced (unlike the last time I looked when there was things "coming out soon", (which was the normal state for very long)). Even though we lag behind on both hard- and software there are at least reasons now to have a little hope. If AOS and Morphos fails we will have AROS, which seems to be getting somewhere as of now.
Either AOS and MorphOS will find a way into the existing computer market, or they will create their own powerful platforms for a reasonable price. Both I think can save them. And I think they know this. So I don't think they plan to linger on with outdated hardware until it's so rare and expensive that giving up is the only option.
When Amiga 1000 came in 1985, the home computers, just like the A1000, had a lot of limitations. 256 colors, 8 bit sound, floppy disks and extremely small and expensive hard drives. It was still cutting edge of course, but the limitations was nevertheless there and every upgrade did cost a small fortune for the consumer. When the A1200 and A4000 came it wasn't cutting edge anymore. It was barely keeping up with the PC market. Good computers, but not at all as impressive as when the A1000 and later the much cheaper A500 got released.
Today seeing all of the color spectrum is standard. Sound cards that does all frequencies too. Big screens, fast, cheap and huge hard drives and other cool stuff makes the difference between a computer manufactured in 2008 and 2012 relatively small for the non-hardcore gaming and non-3D-creating consumer.
All those microchips that made the Amiga 1000 and beyond cool and powerful are today obsolete. Not just the chips, but the whole need for specialized chips. Sure, specialized chips can do cool stuff, but they are simply not needed in order to get a fast and well working computer.
My point is that it doesn't matter much right now that the computers are a little behind since there is a lot of catching up to do software wise. First we have to get software that can do all the everyday things that normal consumers would ask for (web surfing, text editing, picture editing etc (and for my part I want Japanese to be supported)). Then we should find either a good but not pricey platform or strive to be platform independent. If these two steps are made in that order, I think all our 3 OS:es will have some kind of future, maybe even a bright one.
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then i can only gratulate your "birdie", but it is hard to believe for me. Why did they lower the prices after one day when all is well? And even now it is too expensive and nothing new or special on it. So perhaps your "birdie" should not believe all it hears...
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Reading from all this though, one thing I cannot fathom is, why all the flames if CUSA does create/sell a PowerPC with AmigaOS inside it?
I didn't know this was their plan? As far as I know they have a pretty standard PC system (with an intel processor, not a PPC) with their own Linux clone. Nothing Amiga at all. As in: nothing Amiga at all. Except for the name. I think that would annoy a lot of people actually.
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You seem to look at Aros as some kind of reserve only interesting if MorphOS and AOS fail. They will both not "fail" or it depends how you define fail. They have both their supporters who swear on it, they are both depending on old and in case of AOS expensive underpowered hardware and this will not change. So they will stagnate and slowly shrink because they are not able to win new users.
I do not see Aros as "reserve" because it is the only one that supports modern hardware (different platforms) and new concepts.
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It's true, here's the proof:
http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/5-commodore-amiga-hardware-wishlist-/13855-just-ordered---#13871
They sold an Amiga Mini!
Fair play to them, though, it does take some kind of sales man to sell a bog-standard Core i3 system with a rubbish graphics card and no chance of expansion for $1500 or whatever it was....
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one more than I thought :roflmao:
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I feel sorry for this person that ordered "the most powerful Amiga I've ever owned" :crazy:. It's not an Amiga in any sense and that individual doesn't even realize it...
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I do not see Aros as "reserve" because it is the only one that supports modern hardware (different platforms) and new concepts.
I didn't mean of it like a "reserve"; something to fall back on if the others fail. Don't get me wrong there. But as of now the downside is that AROS is in need of more developing (but they are getting there!), the upside is that it works on non-outdated hardware.
What I meant was that if AOS and/or MorphOS cannot make the plunge into newer platforms it won't mean that it's the end of Amiga, thanks to AROS. I meant it as a good thing. I plan myself to get AROS when it's simple enough for me to use it (and have more programs). And I wouldn't mind getting MorphOS either. I want the Amiga OS to survive and I actually care little how, as long as it doesn't look and act too differently from the Workbench 3.1 that I loved to play with so much.
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one more than I thought :roflmao:
That's the crazy thing about Barry's plan. He doesn't need many people to buy his machines (at a $1000 mark-up) before he gets his money back. The amazing is that people will actually buy a $500 machine for $1500 if you stick a few stickers on it and tell them it's an Amiga. Incredible.
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Then I apologize...
I compare the speed of development and I think in less than 12 months it will be competitive in all areas (and superior in a couple of areas).
And more software... the limitation was that Zune was lacking MUI 4.0 features and thus making Aros-Support complicated. This will change this year. Applications like Digibooster (68k) are f.e. already running on my 68k distribution I am preparing (and that will be part of Aros X86 distrbutions. So situation is improving :-)
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@Olaf,
How is the 68k version coming, anyways? I always thought it would be a good successor to 3.9, for 68k machines.
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I do not know exactly how it is right now on real classic hardware. It is not optimized for amiga hardware so it heavily depends on processor (68060 recommended). The kickstart must be "soft-kicked" to use the kickstart replacement (and that is needed for Aros 68k that needs 1 MB). The problem was that the kickstart replacement did not recognize the Fast-RAM on the Turbocards with the result that from 2 MB Chipram only 0.8 MB left and thus making the system useless. This problem was solved but I do not know if that is true for all Turbocards. And it will propably never run as fast on classic hardware as the original because it was developed on and for much better hardware.
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Curious how long it'll be before the crew in Cupertino get up C-USA's ass about the "Mini" name. I despise tech law, patent law, etc. But....
But if I was Apple, who have worldwide copyrights and trademarks on the Mac Mini going back 7 years on the tech, name, and form factor, I'd be on C-USA like stink on a monkey. There is a valid case there.
It's a small computer, in a form and appearance that looks damned near identical to the Apple product. Add the fact C-USA is using the "Mini" name will be the icing on the cake. If they've sold even one of these under that name, ahahahaha...
Thing looks like a Mac Mini knockoff, and is even called "Mini". If this doesn't have C & D written all over it at a bare minimum, I don't know what does.
Apple, a company ballsy enough to sue over swipe to open/unlock technologies on phones, doubt this will go over well come to think of it. The sticking point is the "mini" denotation, combined with the form factor and visuals of the product.
Pretty sloppy of C-USA, surprised it didn't don on me earlier. This should be interesting, knowing the long history of Apple's pitbull lawyers.
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a short demonstration of my distribution:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRDAXbny428
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I compare the speed of development and I think in less than 12 months it will be competitive in all areas (and superior in a couple of areas).
That will be something to look forward to :)
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Then you should avoid MorphOS too because there is no multicore support. Or am I wrong? :-)
My Mac only has one single core processor.
And I did start putting together the parts for a dedicated AROS system a few weeks ago.
I have a low wattage single core Athlon 64 for that.
I'm just not wasting the processing power of my Phenom X4 on an Amigoid OS.
BTW - What is "gratulate"?
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I meant "congratulate"
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Reading from all this though, one thing I cannot fathom is, why all the flames if CUSA does create/sell a PowerPC with AmigaOS inside it? It's not like as if CUSA is getting it for free.they are paying Hyperion for their efforts yes? (to create a port for them)? Wouldn't Hyperion need this sort of extra funding? If I was a developer I know I'd certainly would. Also regarding the IP front if the problem exists primarily with Amiga Inc. and Hyperion's contract as regards to what AmigaOS is..why can't just one company buy out the other and then lease out the AmigaOS x86 IP to CUSA? What is stopping them from doing so (since many companies do this already to resolve IP issues?).
write and make an offer (http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20101101005591/en/Pluritas-Engaged-Amiga-Market-Global-IP-Rights)
here's your company contact (http://www.pluritas.com/professionals-thomann.shtml)
Enjoy!
#6
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If AROS is legal (and I'd be willing to bet that Ben Herman's thinks it isn't) then distributing it shouldn't be actionable.
My understanding is that putting AROS on an Amiga branded computer would violate the trademark used by hyperion.
In the same way that Apple Computers were limited with doing anything to do with music (even though it would have been perfectly legal for them to do so under any other name).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer
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AROS 68k looks like its coming along great. THANK you guys for all your hard work. What will the amiga inc. and amiga forever grave robbers do now?
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If you mean Cloanto with "Amiga Forever" they have also put in work with their distribution and the special UAE-Version, Updates... they are not only selling Roms. And at least there was a legal way to get the amiga files. But I of course have high hopes that Aros with its different platforms and distributions can revive the scene up to a certain degree. Much more than the other OSs are able to because they stuck to old hardware.
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a short demonstration of my distribution:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRDAXbny428
Hey, as long as there's development, I'm happy. :)
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Umm...are those the only relevant Amiga parties out there?
Well I only quoted a few. I know apart from Jerri, Dave (Haynie) was one of them, Hyperion I think, and I think two of the other board makers Genesi and Acube had been contacted also...can't remember the exact details but it was something like that. I believe all the relevant parties were contacted probably just before the December post about the 'Final Challenge'.
Also I'd been backtracking reading some of the ideas and comments from December. I came across this one from Dan Wood back in December which I think makes sense and gives a really compelling reason for AmigaOS now to be ported over to x86:
'Assuming this is serious, this is what I want.
Work with Hyperion to port/update OS4 to modern standards firstly. It must be x86 to be taken seriously in this day and age, run 68k apps in a sandboxed fully compatible, seamless UAE environment (like unity mode, invisible to the user), run PPC apps via a Rosetta-style virtualization. Add memory protection to the OS and run these old apps in a sandboxed environment, new x86 apps can take advantage of MP, make sure it can run AROS apps so we already have a starting point. Basically bring AROS and OS 4 together, but bring it up to date.
Put it in a nice box with the Commodore Amiga name bearing proudly down at you, give it a custom kb with the A keys....
That'll do nicely and stands a chance of being taken seriously outside of our community, of course it can also run Windows/Linux should the user wish to.'
This is his idea obviously, (and a Power7 Amiga would also be nice), but the question remains in the hands of Hyperion et al how they want to go about it and whether they're willing to port AOS over to the x86 platform or work with AROS on developing a version of AOS fit for x86 chips. This is the crux of the matter everyones faced with today (and the past two decades including Commodore). But it can be solved technically. If Hyperion doesn't want any other PC system to be an 'Amiga clone', Hyperion could develop a version of the OS that will recognise some sort of 'dongle' or code on the board. This will make the system uniquely Amiga in a similar style to how OSX recognises proper Macs.
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The idea is certainly not stupid and of course not impossible but Aros is Opensource and that would require that they are more open than now. F.e. I read today that AROSTCP is a port of AmiTCP. It was ported to MorphOS and the changes were backported to Aros. So both sides benefitted. The question is would they accept such conditions?
And Hyperion would give up its uniqueness to a certain degree (like KDE and Gnome are based to the same foundations/kernel).
And one thing you seem to forget... you must recompile all applications to get X86 versions. Not for every program there is the source. And you need some sort of PPC emulation/layer for old apps.
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My understanding is that putting AROS on an Amiga branded computer would violate the trademark used by hyperion.
Exactly, Hyperion did not make a statement about the legality of AROS an sich but on the usage of it by an Amiga trademark licensor to use it as OS on their Amiga branded computers.
greets,
Staf.
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AROS 68k looks like its coming along great. THANK you guys for all your hard work. What will the amiga inc. and amiga forever grave robbers do now?
But Steven, the 68K is far more DEAD then PPC processors.
I thought you weren't in favor of using obsolete product.
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Exactly, Hyperion did not make a statement about the legality of AROS an sich but on the usage of it by an Amiga trademark licensor to use it as OS on their Amiga branded computers.
greets,
Staf.
Again, I don't remember that, just the stipulation that Amiga Inc. could not develop an AmigaOS like product.
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68k is dead as processor-family but not dead on emulation and for thousands of developers and users.
It is for some still the main platform and it is useful as extension for Aros X86.
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Well I'm happy to report that a little birdy told me the new Amiga Mini has been doing great. Sales of both barebones and built systems are doing well....so it means Amiga as a brand name, is coming back into the public conscience in a big way. With more people using Amiga Forever and the like, sales of Amiga-related software would no doubt I believe, bring much needed attention (and cash) to those developers.
I'll grant you that there's apparently one person stupid enough to shell out gobs of cash for something worth half that (wish I knew their name, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell them,) but your "little birdy" says a lot of things. Around this time in the C64x release cycle the "little birdy" was talking about distribution contracts with Wal-Mart that guaranteed tens of thousands of sales. So, uh, I'll believe this when I see it.
Reading from all this though, one thing I cannot fathom is, why all the flames if CUSA does create/sell a PowerPC with AmigaOS inside it?
??? They're not doing any such thing...not even in the "Barry wildly tossing out potential ideas that will never actually be followed up on" sense...
I mean think about this. When people talk of Apple IIs & Macintoshes compared to Apple MacBooks, most folks understand that Apple IIs & Macintoshes were 'classic' systems i.e. legacy systems and realize that modern Apples run on the latest Intel chips. Yet when folks like myself here talk of legacy Commodores and Amigas and they are put it in the same sentence as USA, Intel and x86 port, everybody gets their feathers a little ruffled. What's the big deal? I don't understand it…
Because here's the thing, the Mac is and always has been a software system, and the hardware is unimportant aside from the most basic sense that it's what the software runs on. That's part of the original Mac Team philosophy. From the original System disk that shipped with the 128k Macintosh all the way up to the last revision of Mac OS 9, that software system was preserved, so that a dual-G4 system running at 1.25GHz is perfectly capable of running software from the 128k days, as long as it's well-behaved software (and it usually is.) Even on OSX, when they moved to BSD internals (something some Mac fans still aren't happy about,) they kept a compatibility layer for it to run classic Mac OS software transparently, in the same user environment. That's respecting a legacy.
The Amiga's design legacy is a bit different - not only the software, but also the hardware is important. Instead of the OS abstracting all of the hardware away, the two are designed to work in concert. That's part of what's so neat about it. Preserving that legacy is harder, since emulating the hardware is trickier - but the "next-gen" Amigoid OSes are trying, at least for well-behaved software (which is unfortunately less common than on the Mac.) They're actually making some effort to keep that legacy alive. CUSA? Isn't. And no, bundling an emulator with a completely unrelated system on completely unrelated hardware doesn't count for squat.
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I'll grant you that there's apparently one person stupid enough to shell out gobs of cash for something worth half that (wish I knew their name, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell them,) but your "little birdy" says a lot of things. Around this time in the C64x release cycle the "little birdy" was talking about distribution contracts with Wal-Mart that guaranteed tens of thousands of sales. So, uh, I'll believe this when I see it.
Thousands of machines in major retail chains, 24/7 telephone support, completely original operating system. Yeah, the list goes on.
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I'll grant you that there's apparently one person stupid enough to shell out gobs of cash for something worth half that (wish I knew their name, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell them,) but your "little birdy" says a lot of things. Around this time in the C64x release cycle the "little birdy" was talking about distribution contracts with Wal-Mart that guaranteed tens of thousands of sales. So, uh, I'll believe this when I see it.
??? They're not doing any such thing...not even in the "Barry wildly tossing out potential ideas that will never actually be followed up on" sense...
Because here's the thing, the Mac is and always has been a software system, and the hardware is unimportant aside from the most basic sense that it's what the software runs on. That's part of the original Mac Team philosophy. From the original System disk that shipped with the 128k Macintosh all the way up to the last revision of Mac OS 9, that software system was preserved, so that a dual-G4 system running at 1.25GHz is perfectly capable of running software from the 128k days, as long as it's well-behaved software (and it usually is.) Even on OSX, when they moved to BSD internals (something some Mac fans still aren't happy about,) they kept a compatibility layer for it to run classic Mac OS software transparently, in the same user environment. That's respecting a legacy.
The Amiga's design legacy is a bit different - not only the software, but also the hardware is important. Instead of the OS abstracting all of the hardware away, the two are designed to work in concert. That's part of what's so neat about it. Preserving that legacy is harder, since emulating the hardware is trickier - but the "next-gen" Amigoid OSes are trying, at least for well-behaved software (which is unfortunately less common than on the Mac.) They're actually making some effort to keep that legacy alive. CUSA? Isn't. And no, bundling an emulator with a completely unrelated system on completely unrelated hardware doesn't count for squat.
I understand what you're saying, but have you ever thought about looking at things in a new light if the old plan fails because of a number of factors? A classic example is the demise of the custom electronics industry for the Amiga. Many of the parts we once took for granted in making up the Amiga as it was are no longer there, so it is largely through software we try to recreate this (as you say, emulate the hardware) - and yes I know it's tricky. But with a powerful chipset (like the x86 or PowerPC) we can hopefully recreate this.
The problem right now is not the hardware….the hardware we already have in the form of x86. The problem we have now is the rather stubborn attitude of those who are still holding onto the past glory of CBM and dedicated hardware, and not willing to release AmigaOS to the great heights of further evolvement as it should be.
Taking the Apple analogy further from an Amiga viewpoint, if Mac OS wasn't evolved since 2000, it would still be using PowerPCs and a probably dated OS today, albeit with new softwares. Imagine iLife or iPhoto under OS9 lol. This is the state of the play at the moment in the Amiga community…for AmigaOS at least.
CUSA really wanted to use AmigaOS I'm sure, but it's all these 'potential lawsuits' that is keeping them at bay….and keeping the Amiga community at bay from moving on also...
And I do feel software compatibility is important to the survival of the platform. Being 'incompatible' and totally working against a software industry now practically built on Intel boxes (with the exception of consoles), is crazy. Why not honour the past through emulation, and develop a future for the platform via AROS/Linux and custom chips via add-in boards/dongles?
Also it isn't just the likes of myself who have said about adopting the x86 platform for the Amiga is probably the right way and right choice, there have been others. Let me give you a quote from Casey Bakker on the Natami forum on what he had to say on the matter:
Casey Bakker
Netherlands
06 Jan 2012 22:44
'As a general consensus, the Amiga was a VERY advanced computer in 1985 and was even outselling the Mac in 1986 - however while commodore stood still after the initial succes, Apple quickly regained momentum and in 1990, Amiga technology was just on par with the competetion and by 1992 it was severely lagging behind, since commodore hardly evolved the platform at all. So how did Commodore waste a 5-year lead over the competition?
Commodore had a developed a strategy to lock users into a specific hardware with the C64 and "milk" this hardware without ever evolving it. While this had worked well for the C64 during the entire 1980's this strategy was not sustainable on the Amiga. Amiga adepts (like myself) compared the Amiga to the Mac and the PC's and were expecting similar evolutionary improvements. For example Apple introduced the Mac-II 68020 based system in 1987 and put a faster system on the market every other year. I remember reading the Amiga mags each month in the hopes of finally learning that some advanced new chipset had arrived. Unfortunately it never came (not until it was too late anyway).
Commodore realised their mistake no sooner than 1992: While the C64 sold multiple millions of units ayear consistently throughout the 1980's, C64 sales had slumped after 1989 and by 1990, the Amiga finally outsold the C64 for the first time with 1 million units sold that year. From 1992 however, Amiga sales started to go down rapidly as the Amiga no longer held the price/performance-edge over VGA-based i386SX systems. At that time Commodore was producing huge piles of unsellable C64 and Amiga's and they got into financial trouble because of this. The AGA-based A1200 and CD32's cranked up the sales in the final year before bankruptcy but it simple wasn't enough and it was allready too late.
Strangely, Commodore management couldn't see the "writing on the wall" that many Amiga users could see. For example this is shown by the fact that CBM management had even postponed the new AGA-based chipset which was ready in 1991 (in the A3000+) in order to develop the low-cost A4000. At the same time, the A500+ and A600 were introduced which meant no performance upgrade over the A500 whatsoever. It just shows how detached from reality CBM-management really was..'
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CUSA really wanted to use AmigaOS I'm sure, but it's all these 'potential lawsuits' that is keeping them at bay?.and keeping the Amiga community at bay from moving on also...
If you're sure you've isolated the principal obstacle, then you should also know the solution.
#6
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The problem right now is not the hardware….the hardware we already have in the form of x86. The problem we have now is the rather stubborn attitude of those who are still holding onto the past glory of CBM and dedicated hardware, and not willing to release AmigaOS to the great heights of further evolvement as it should be.
That's an absolute load of crap. The Amiga OS has no less than three ongoing projects to keep it alive and updated as best as can be managed with the original architecture on a broad variety of newer hardware (including x86 PCs,) two of which are commercial developments by small companies and one of which is developed and supported entirely by Amiga fans. None of its contemporaries come close to that level of devotion. Commodore fans aren't holding the Amiga back, they're the sole reason it's still alive.
Taking the Apple analogy further from an Amiga viewpoint, if Mac OS wasn't evolved since 2000, it would still be using PowerPCs and a probably dated OS today, albeit with new softwares. Imagine iLife or iPhoto under OS9 lol.
...and? There's nothing magic about OSX or x86 that makes iLife better than it would be on OS9. I use OS9 semi-regularly on my old Macs, and it's perfectly decent for many purposes. A little balky, yes, and it's missing support for some new technologies (argh, no WPA support,) but it's not as if it's some kind of primitive mainframe operating system from 1970 or something. Apple went BSD because they felt it'd be easier than moving OS9 past a few key architectural stumbling blocks (cooperative multitasking and lack of memory protection, f'rinstance,) not because it was infinitely superior and transcendently perfect.
CUSA really wanted to use AmigaOS I'm sure, but it's all these 'potential lawsuits' that is keeping them at bay….and keeping the Amiga community at bay from moving on also...
I don't buy that. But even supposing I'm wrong and they ever were seriously considering supporting AROS or somesuch, the fact is they didn't. They went ahead with a series of projects that repurpose the names of classic computers (and the VIC-20, *rimshot*) for products that are completely unrelated, in hardware or software. If they were really at all committed to the idea of carrying the torch for the old Commodore, they'd have let Hyperion take their ball and go home, given up on getting the trademark, and forged ahead with their plans. Instead, they gave up on the thing so they could leverage the name. Any good intentions that they may have had mean nothing if they didn't follow through.
And I do feel software compatibility is important to the survival of the platform. Being 'incompatible' and totally working against a software industry now practically built on Intel boxes (with the exception of consoles), is crazy. Why not honour the past through emulation, and develop a future for the platform via AROS/Linux and custom chips via add-in boards/dongles?
I never said that wasn't an option. I'd extend due consideration to an OS that runs legacy Amiga software in emulation the way OSX does, placing it transparently in the same user environment. But CUSA just bundles WinUAE with an operating system that doesn't look, act, or work anything like an Amiga - that's a lazy token gesture, not any sign of real commitment.
Also it isn't just the likes of myself who have said about adopting the x86 platform for the Amiga is probably the right way and right choice, there have been others. Let me give you a quote from Casey Bakker on the Natami forum on what he had to say on the matter:
That quote says nothing whatsoever endorsing a move to x86, it just notes (correctly) that the PC market outpaced Commodore's lackluster R&D between 1985-1994. So did Apple's, and they didn't move to Intel until eleven years after Commodore broke up.
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What's really funny is my £500 PC has better sound and 3D graphics capability than their Amiga Mini :roflmao:
Will they rebadge a $400 24" LCD AIO and call it iAmiga next??
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Obviously closer to my own sentiment, except I'm no longer that fixated on the name.
[/I]
You don't seriously think a modern Amiga would contain a Paula chip do you? That's as unlikely as a new 68K processor.
While I admire the persistence of the Natami team and really like the replay board, neither of these projects is going to take the place of a modern computer.
An new Amiga, at least in my mind, would be better built on something similar to what's going into today's gaming consoles (with,ob viously more memory and expansion).
But then again, there we go with the opinions.
One thing I think most of us agree on, it wouldn't be a PC.
No my whole point is an OS4+PPC based hardware+UAE computer is no more "Amiga" than my AMD PC+Amithlon+OS3.9+UAE setup. Ditto AROS config.
The last REAL Amiga model was CD32 by CBM in 93...it's easy to surmise that all by saying "has a Paula chip" :)
Amiga NG title is meaningless and misleading as that overpriced bunch are not Amigas.....just OS4 compatible boxes IMO, and they're made by people who didn't do any hardware and/or OS R&D for either the A1000/2000/3000 or A1200/4000.
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I can understand why people like ppc I suppose, since many legacy apps can be run on it if they are system friendly. Unfortunatly, most amiga games and many apps were never written to be system friendly, so that leaves very few apps that don't require an emulator.
Unfortunately, fpga could be a solution for amiga future but can't really be a solution because os3.x is closed source. Maybe aros 68k will change that.
People can complain about cusa using linux but...
Its got smp, tons of applications, and is much more technically advanced. I don't know the legalities of why they can't advance that idea further and create a workbench like file structure and gui, but apparently they can not do that or risk legal actions, which is a shame. This idea once proposed as annubis. (linux underneath an amiga like os file structure and gui) Me, I think thats a fantastic solution for this whole debacle.
Then you could have an amiga like os on an amiga branded pc that ran all legacy apps beautifully and seamlessly. The amiga look and feel would be preserved, but what if you added a new piece of hardware? (Almost anything these days has linux drivers) It would just work. period. Can't do that on aros, morphos or os4 (and you never will be able to. NEVER)
So maybe COS as much as it was mocked here was just a first step in the right direction. If they finished the job (and were legally allowed to) I think everyone who likes amiga would be incredibly happy with the results.
I don't know what will happen, but its fun watching.
As the boing ball turns...
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They're not going to do that, that would require time and effort.
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I wish all camps the best, including even cusa now.
At least the old girl is still alive.
Steven
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If they finished the job (and were legally allowed to) I think everyone who likes amiga would be incredibly happy with the results.
Not the people who say that Amiga is chipset+680x0. They don't care now, and they won't care in the future.
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I wish all camps the best, including even cusa now.
At least the old girl is still alive.
Steven
Merely alive, as an abused crack-wh**e on life-support that's about to fail anyway...
Real Amigas & Amigoid systems - still alive & kickin'! :banana:
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I wish all the camp the best of luck too. But I don't consider CUSA one of them. PC hardware and Linux I can live with. Exploiting the old, classic names like C64 and Amiga in order to boost sales of unrelated products kinda pisses me off.
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The Commodore and Amiga names are just marketing tools to move mediocre product.
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What's really funny is my £500 PC has better sound and 3D graphics capability than their Amiga Mini :roflmao:
Exactly! And you wonder why…..because the PC clone had 'inadvertently' over the years, become what the Amiga should have been…..have fully open architecture, meaning the ability to upgrade parts on a constant basis (and now cheaply) via ISA/PCI giving the user flexibility. This is the crux that caused Commodores downfall which I was trying to allude to in my post to Commodorejohn earlier. As Bakker said (in the 2nd paragraph) compared to the Mac which was constantly being upgraded, nothing happened on the Amiga end from a chip perspective. Whereas everyone then was upgrading their systems month by month, nothing was happening with the Amiga. To the public eye, Amiga wasn't changing quickly enough as far reaching as Apples or PCs were beginning to become, so hence Commodore had this problem of lack of sales near the end.
Not that the Amiga had any lack of skills. One thing the Amiga did retain was the wide base of support from the various software companies much akin to how console software developers work today because its hardware was more or less fixed. This approach wasn't surprising because the Amiga WAS supposed to be designed as a console…
I wish all camps the best, including even cusa now.
At least the old girl is still alive.
Steven
Me too…..and you/they have my sentiments also. I wish them all the best…
The Commodore and Amiga names are just marketing tools to move mediocre product.
It doesn't have to be…..Commodore and Amiga can still come back in a big way with your help.
If the various camps work together on a really good plan, the old girl can finally come off the table and stand on her own hind legs…for instance funding AROS/Amiga case moulds, special projects, porting AOS to x86; developing a newPaula/new boards etc. This is just the beginning of the revamp…. :)
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What's really funny is my £500 PC has better sound and 3D graphics capability than their Amiga Mini :roflmao:
Exactly! And you wonder why…..because the PC clone had 'inadvertently' over the years, become what the Amiga should have been…
And the award for "not reading the sentence fully and thus missing the point hilariously" goes to...Middleman!
..have fully open architecture, meaning the ability to upgrade parts on a constant basis (and now cheaply) via ISA/PCI giving the user flexibility.
...wha...? Are you even reading what you're writing? God knows I love old-ass PCs, but seriously, holding up ISA, with its jumper configurations and interrupt conflicts, as an example!? PCI is more like it, but let's take a moment and note that the Amiga had an autoconfiguring expansion bus a decade before PCI came out. And what the hell can't you upgrade in an Amiga? The one irreplacable bottleneck is the actual bus itself, and that's no less true on any PC you care to show me.
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And the award for "not reading the sentence fully and thus missing the point hilariously" goes to...Middleman!
Damn, how could I miss it?! :rofl: That Mini really is tiny :biglaugh:
...wha...? Are you even reading what you're writing? God knows I love old-ass PCs, but seriously, holding up ISA, with its jumper configurations and interrupt conflicts, as an example!? PCI is more like it, but let's take a moment and note that the Amiga had an autoconfiguring expansion bus a decade before PCI came out. And what the hell can't you upgrade in an Amiga? The one irreplacable bottleneck is the actual bus itself, and that's no less true on any PC you care to show me.
Well I put that up as an example because we didn't have PCI properly until into the mid 90s. It's for those who want to nitpick things historically. If I'd had said PCI they may have said 'No, ISA came before that! :laugh1:
Well you'd probably like to know, but I'd just been contacted by Barry with a special message for you all. He gave me permission to send you this post which may surprise you...:
From Barry:
Please post this in reply to VOX's recent post. It was actually posted a while ago, but it got lost and no one really even commented except maybe one comment. It is very important that these "opposition" camps to realize that most of what they think our intentions are, are really incorrect, I think this statement, which has been on our site from day one, needs to be posted as a very important FACT regarding our intentions, our outlook on the future, and most importantly, our desire to engage all the factions, and try to bring consolidation to a very disjointed community. Only through civil dialog can this be achieved. Yes, we did have some missteps early on. We are human..and share your passion and zeal. Lets try to focus now on what can realistically be accomplished, and finally end all this insane behavior...and move forward. I'm ready...are you?
DIRECT QUOTE FROM COMMODORE USA WEBSITE, SOFTWARE PAGE, COMMODORE OS VISION:
http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_OS_Vision.aspx
Commodore OS Vision is not a derivative of the original AmigaOS developed for 68K microprocessor computers in the 1980's, but an entirely modern operating system based on GNU/Linux. If you are interested in running a derivative of the original AmigaOS you may consider the following projects: AmigaOS4 by Hyperion Entertainment B.V., which runs on PPC products such as Acube's SAM and Aeon's X1000 computer; AROS a free open source implementation by Team AROS, which runs on x86 architecture (like Commodore USA's); MorphOS, a commercial implementation by MorphOS Team, which runs on PPC architecture such as assorted PPC Apple Macintosh models. Commodore USA, LLC has no affiliation with any of these projects, companies or products.
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Well, color me amazed, it's a clear and straightforward statement of fact from Barry! Of course, it's a statement of facts we already knew...
Gotta love the "oh, can all you rabble just move on as we Enlightened Ones are doing" talk.
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(http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Animals/Pigs/Pig_flies.gif)
It doesn't have to be…..Commodore and Amiga can still come back in a big way with your help.
If the various camps work together on a really good plan, the old girl can finally come off the table and stand on her own hind legs…for instance funding AROS/Amiga case moulds, special projects, porting AOS to x86; developing a newPaula/new boards etc. This is just the beginning of the revamp…. :)
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn132/aivo12/FlyingPigs-1.gif)
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Again, I don't remember that, just the stipulation that Amiga Inc. could not develop an AmigaOS like product.
Don't know how you interpret this statement (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=32323&forum=16&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#577704) from Ben Hermans?
Don't find a reference to the settlement documents anymore but if I remember well it handled about the use of the Amiga trademark and was not only valid for Amiga Inc.
greets,
Staf.
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Don't know how you interpret this statement (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=32323&forum=16&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#577704) from Ben Hermans?
Don't find a reference to the settlement documents anymore but if I remember well it handled about the use of the Amiga trademark and was not only valid for Amiga Inc.
greets,
Staf.
Sorry Staf, All I see is "Hyperionmp".
That could be anyone.
There's no way to confirm it as actually being Ben.
Although Ben has a past history of making rash, unsupportable comments about others.
Lets just say it sounds like Hermans, but it doesn't mean that his opinion is a realistic representation of the actual rights of Hyperion.
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I don't understand why anyone would want the old brands to come back. They're just trademarks. It's the combination of unique hardware and software that made my childhood computer so great, and that magic is gone forever.
I wouldn't expect Beatles fans to get excited about some bush league garage band bringing back the name, regardless of the quality of their music, because that would be straight up retarded. And yet, here we are.
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I don't understand why anyone would want the old brands to come back. They're just trademarks. It's the combination of unique hardware and software that made my childhood computer so great, and that magic is gone forever.
I wouldn't expect Beatles fans to get excited about some bush league garage band bringing back the name, regardless of the quality of their music, because that would be straight up retarded. And yet, here we are.
This has always baffled me as well. It's like the Holy Name is so valuable that it legitimizes quite literally anything it's attached to. I mean, some people around here were taking iContain seriously when it had the "Amiga" named tacked to it. I've joked before about shelling out to Uncle Bill to license the trademarks for such things as Amiga tampons, but I find myself having to wonder whether some folks wouldn't actually buy in, just for the sake of The Name...
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One thing for sure the new Amiga's will get, is that it won't lose out any longer to the development of computers over the last 20 years since Commodore went down. With the highest level of software compatibility, including the work done on emulation and OSes, you'll get an Amiga that can run all of the games and stuff including tech that is now available. I can't think of a more compelling reason to get Kinect say on an Amiga say for a 3D game from EA...
People keep saying an Amiga shouldn't be an x86 system, but I think otherwise. Packaged with the right software and hardware combinations including case designs, it'll be a killer I think...with a nostalgic name to boot...
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One thing for sure the new Amiga's will get, is that it won't lose out any longer to the development of computers over the last 20 years since Commodore went down.
In the same way that if you buy a Scion xB and scrawl "Studebaker" on the side with a crayon, it's a new, updated Studebaker, sure...
With the highest level of software compatibility, including the work done on emulation and OSes, you'll get an Amiga that can run all of the games and stuff including tech that is now available.
The only "work" CUSA has done on "emulation and OSes" is throwing a handful of preexisting desktop components on top of Mint in an attempt to make it look like OSX, and bundling Amiga Forever. If that's "work," me screwing around with XFCE for an afternoon is about equal to "developing a custom OS." Oh hey, I think I just figured out the next revision of "Commodore OS"!
People keep saying an Amiga shouldn't be an x86 system, but I think otherwise. Packaged with the right software and hardware combinations including case designs, it'll be a killer I think...with a nostalgic name to boot...
Even putting aside the x86 debate, that's a whole lot of talking out of your ass. There's no case design, nostalgic or otherwise, going on here - they buy an existing Mac Mini knock-off and etch a name on it. Big freaking deal. Their "hardware and software combinations" are generic i3 and i7 setups that they can't even figure out the power requirements for (and that should probably never have seen the inside of an HTPC case to begin with,) slapped with a lightly-customized Mint and a bundle of a bundle of UAE. And the only sense in which any of this is "killer" is in relation to one's wallet.
I never thought it would be possible, but they somehow managed to come up with a product even less enthusing than the C64x...
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x86 beats PPC hands down for performance, but it's not the only one that does. Frankly, the endian issue makes x86 and ARM unattractive for running the old software. Where will new software come from?
I'm watching the Apollo core (formerly N68070) from the NatAmi team. Its opcode fusion feature will allow old software to gain new performance without recompiling at all.
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It was just a trick, CeCe, to get you to come back, 'cos all us "old-schoolers" missed you. ;P
In fact, it made me realize that you weren't around much, anymore, when people started mentioning you.
I am still convinced it was one of the Annex girls. XD
har har
I AM busy these days but I drop in every once in a while. :juggler:
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Even putting aside the x86 debate, that's a whole lot of talking out of your ass. There's no case design, nostalgic or otherwise, going on here - they buy an existing Mac Mini knock-off and etch a name on it. Big freaking deal. Their "hardware and software combinations" are generic i3 and i7 setups that they can't even figure out the power requirements for (and that should probably never have seen the inside of an HTPC case to begin with,) slapped with a lightly-customized Mint and a bundle of a bundle of UAE. And the only sense in which any of this is "killer" is in relation to one's wallet.
Try here... >http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/3-suggestion-box/8536-under-construction-new-cusa-website?limit=15&start=30#8782
Posted by digitex aka Barry
'Mike, Middleman, etc...
RE: AMIGA AIO keyboard computer.
1. won't be replica. No plans for any more replica cases (at least for now, and in the foreseeable future)
2. it will be forum member rgmarett's idea of a new Amiga 500 replacement, only modified to allow for the hardware height requirements.
3. it will have a full qwerty kb, with numerics
3. looking at 1st or 2nd qtr 2012 time frame.'
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Yeah, and rgmarett's idea (http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/gallery/gallery/10) is, while a lovely rendering, nothing more than a picture of a case design that's a lightly-modified A1200, with no information whatsoever about what's inside. (So much for "not a replica!") Get back to me if it turns out to be something other than a bog-standard PC board running a lightly-customized Mint or priced anywhere even remotely close to what a similarly-specced machine can be had for anywhere else.
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Well I'm happy to report that a little birdy told me the new Amiga Mini has been doing great. Sales of both barebones and built systems are doing well....
Birdie never reveals figures and expectations, but business intended positive emotions to keep motivation up.
Its nice for birdie, but there are other tunes to sing too ...
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I don't understand why anyone would want the old brands to come back. They're just trademarks. It's the combination of unique hardware and software that made my childhood computer so great, and that magic is gone forever.
I wouldn't expect Beatles fans to get excited about some bush league garage band bringing back the name, regardless of the quality of their music, because that would be straight up retarded. And yet, here we are.
Word! Let the classic Amigas stay classic. I want my Workbench 3.1 to work on A1200 and my AOS 4.x to work on new hardware! :)
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x86 beats PPC hands down for performance, but it's not the only one that does. Frankly, the endian issue makes x86 and ARM unattractive for running the old software. Where will new software come from?
I'm watching the Apollo core (formerly N68070) from the NatAmi team. Its opcode fusion feature will allow old software to gain new performance without recompiling at all.
Let me get this straight. X86 is more powerful then PPC so you choose 68K?
Oh, now we're going down the rabbit hole!
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Think about the possibility of "Apollo" going 2-3Ghz (or more!) ASIC some day (hello Thierry! ;)). The 68k-architechture would get a super speed boost!
And it's also cool the 68k is further enchanced by the Natami-team :)
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Old brands do sell...otherwise there wouldn't be a new VW Beetle, for instance. It borrows a bit from the past...but uses modern common technology under the hood (VW Golf), instead of a boxer four cylinder rear engine like the original. So why not buy a VW Golf instead, it's the same car basically?
And if someone buys a new Beetle and tells about it on some internet forum, there's a mocking party gearing up at the vintage Beetle forums? ;)
I think there's room for all camps, all publicity is good publicity and all camps gain from it.
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Old brands do sell...otherwise there wouldn't be a new VW Beetle, for instance. It borrows a bit from the past...but uses modern common technology under the hood (VW Golf), instead of a boxer four cylinder rear engine like the original. So why not buy a VW Golf instead, it's the same car basically?
And if someone buys a new Beetle and tells about it on some internet forum, there's a mocking party gearing up at the vintage Beetle forums? ;)
I think there's room for all camps, all publicity is good publicity and all camps gain from it.
A car for me personally is a way to get from spot A to spot B and all that matters that it works and does just that. But Amiga is a different thing to me and many others. So can't be compared IMO. Amiga is more than just a computer; it's about dedication, ideology etc. I guess you catch my drift here. :)
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A car for me personally is a way to get from spot A to spot B and all that matters that it works and does just that. But Amiga is a different thing to me and many others. So can't be compared IMO. Amiga is more than just a computer; it's about dedication, ideology etc. I guess you catch my drift here. :)
Well, just like you would use a car, many will use a computer. A Commodore Amiga computer even...but so, enthusiasts will always have their special thing and be proud of it, but general public uses a pc Amiga as a tool to get the job done. Commodore USA is not about retro hobby market, it's about making real business with a little bit of that Commodore spirit. And no other modern pc computer manufacturer offers a single bit of that spirit.
In the end, I find it a waste of time to put such an amount of emotion and energy to the whole issue around C=USA as seen on this forum. Nothing that will change anything...if there's anything really to change.
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The new Beetle is built by Volkswagen and is a continuation of the Beetle line. Volkswagen did not go bankrupt, have it's name sold at a fire sale to a totally unrelated company in another country, which then licensed the name to eight different car companies, the last of which decided to put an old beetle body around a golf cart and call it original.
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x86 beats PPC hands down for performance, but it's not the only one that does. Frankly, the endian issue makes x86 and ARM unattractive for running the old software. Where will new software come from?
I'm watching the Apollo core (formerly N68070) from the NatAmi team. Its opcode fusion feature will allow old software to gain new performance without recompiling at all.
X86 is the only cheap AND incredibly powerful CPU now. Everything else is either a toy in performance or grossly overpriced alternative really.
What we need is either a port of OS4 to x86 64 and 32bit flavour with multithreading and multiprocessing Kernal. Or Amithlon+++ with the same.
On top of that MANY improvements for modern OS demands.
What is NOT required is support for a million gpu/audio/motherboard combos. Pick a locked hardware reference for one high end x86 setup and one medium spec desktop and ditto for laptop. Stick them in a bespoke case. Works well for Apple because you sell it on no virus/windows rot(registry bloat)/responsiveness etc ;)
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A car for me personally is a way to get from spot A to spot B and all that matters that it works and does just that. But Amiga is a different thing to me and many others. So can't be compared IMO. Amiga is more than just a computer; it's about dedication, ideology etc. I guess you catch my drift here. :)
Ideology?, lol
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Forgive me for intruding here, but aside from PowerPC and x86, there is one other thing...
Has anyone had a look at Amiga's archival Atari, and the Coldfire Project to revive the old ST/TT platforms? > http://acp.atari.org/
Because it seems they (ACP) got a much better 68k chipset around (using the Freescale Coldfire chip, a much faster and compatible variant of the old 68k chip. Do you think such a board/chip could be converted to run classic Amiga software? I mean the Coldfire project does have ISA and PCI connections at the back (to connect with PC parts) and with the advent of FPGAs anything could be possible. Maybe a joint Atari+Amiga legacy board project could be worked on?
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X86 is the only cheap AND incredibly powerful CPU now. Everything else is either a toy in performance or grossly overpriced alternative really.
What we need is either a port of OS4 to x86 64 and 32bit flavour with multithreading and multiprocessing Kernal. Or Amithlon+++ with the same.
On top of that MANY improvements for modern OS demands.
What is NOT required is support for a million gpu/audio/motherboard combos. Pick a locked hardware reference for one high end x86 setup and one medium spec desktop and ditto for laptop. Stick them in a bespoke case. Works well for Apple because you sell it on no virus/windows rot(registry bloat)/responsiveness etc ;)
While I can concur I don't want another pc-clone with a different OS under the hood. A better idea would be to make an Amiga clone using modern hardware with an x86 CPU and several off the shelf chips to make it function like an Amiga, then add a 68k CPU for emulation purposes.
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@Middleman
There have been many discussions about the Coldfire. The big problem is it's just not compatible enough, you need to recompile to make any real use of it....
Plus we're already well catered for with AOS and MOS using the much faster PPC chips, and with NatAmi making their own 68k core which should in time be faster in real usage than the Coldfire.
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Ideology?, lol
I'm glad you've been entertained :). Maybe that's not the right word (ideology) but i'm not a native english speaker so excuse me :juggler:
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I can understand why people like ppc I suppose, since many legacy apps can be run on it if they are system friendly. Unfortunatly, most amiga games and many apps were never written to be system friendly, so that leaves very few apps that don't require an emulator.
Unfortunately, fpga could be a solution for amiga future but can't really be a solution because os3.x is closed source. Maybe aros 68k will change that.
People can complain about cusa using linux but...
Its got smp, tons of applications, and is much more technically advanced. I don't know the legalities of why they can't advance that idea further and create a workbench like file structure and gui, but apparently they can not do that or risk legal actions, which is a shame. This idea once proposed as annubis. (linux underneath an amiga like os file structure and gui) Me, I think thats a fantastic solution for this whole debacle.
Then you could have an amiga like os on an amiga branded pc that ran all legacy apps beautifully and seamlessly. The amiga look and feel would be preserved, but what if you added a new piece of hardware? (Almost anything these days has linux drivers) It would just work. period. Can't do that on aros, morphos or os4 (and you never will be able to. NEVER)
So maybe COS as much as it was mocked here was just a first step in the right direction. If they finished the job (and were legally allowed to) I think everyone who likes amiga would be incredibly happy with the results.
I don't know what will happen, but its fun watching.
As the boing ball turns...
C= OS isn't even the bare minimum for generic PC motherboard +Linux distro.
I have posted a screenshot of the correct way to mod Linux for Amiga users twice before. C=USA are slackers.
1 Case looks arse (and an off the shelf HTPC case too).
2 OS GUI looks arse (std xubuntu looks better loool)
3 OS is not ideal for purpose (Linux is for tinkerers and the apps are inferior to Win/OSX even if they have an alt).
4 Won't even play 2008/9 Crysis at HD rez with that slow GPU, maybe 2005 Battlefield 2.
Anyway at the very least I would expect an option to purchase a dual boot Windows and Amithlon/OS3.9 setup.
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And the award for "not reading the sentence fully and thus missing the point hilariously" goes to...Middleman!
...wha...? Are you even reading what you're writing? God knows I love old-ass PCs, but seriously, holding up ISA, with its jumper configurations and interrupt conflicts, as an example!? PCI is more like it, but let's take a moment and note that the Amiga had an autoconfiguring expansion bus a decade before PCI came out. And what the hell can't you upgrade in an Amiga? The one irreplacable bottleneck is the actual bus itself, and that's no less true on any PC you care to show me.
But between A1000 and A4000 they made no improvement to the machines A/V until 1991. Improvements like more colours on screen in 320x200, more blitter bandwidth, HAM8. All could have been done before A500+. Sound was never improved, even dual Paula config would have been welcome in AGA.
Commodore failed to realise they were fighting two fronts. Mac+PC for £2000+ and £150 SNES+SEGA and finally. More money was lost to console sales than 486PC Doom £1000 setups, and by 1988/9 there were non x86 computers/consoles with 256 colours vs the A500 using 2.5 year old A1000 chipset for 5 years was a joke! (and a pig ugly case)
(ECS extras were a waste of time for 95% of us and potential buyers)
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The new Beetle is built by Volkswagen and is a continuation of the Beetle line. Volkswagen did not go bankrupt, have it's name sold at a fire sale to a totally unrelated company in another country, which then licensed the name to eight different car companies, the last of which decided to put an old beetle body around a golf cart and call it original.
I don't think average Joe cares, it reads "Commodore Amiga" and they're going to sell a good number of those branded golf carts anyways.
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Think about the possibility of "Apollo" going 2-3Ghz (or more!) ASIC some day (hello Thierry! ;)). The 68k-architechture would get a super speed boost!
And it's also cool the 68k is further enchanced by the Natami-team :)
Well, let's not get too far off into dreamland here, but it would be neat to see it running in proper silicon someday :)
Well, just like you would use a car, many will use a computer. A Commodore Amiga computer even...but so, enthusiasts will always have their special thing and be proud of it, but general public uses a pc Amiga as a tool to get the job done. Commodore USA is not about retro hobby market, it's about making real business with a little bit of that Commodore spirit. And no other modern pc computer manufacturer offers a single bit of that spirit.
That is absolutely untrue. (For one thing, if CUSA is "not about the retro hobby market" as they've continually claimed, they sure do a lot of promoting to it. Almost like they can't sell to anyone else...) There is nothing Commodore, spirit or otherwise, about this outfit or their products. They don't embody anything about what made the machines good, or even any of the things that made the company successful (vertical integration, competitive pricing.) Nothing whatsoever.
What we need is either a port of OS4 to x86 64 and 32bit flavour with multithreading and multiprocessing Kernal. Or Amithlon+++ with the same.
If it were that simple to support SMP on the Amiga OS, they'd have done it already. The problem of the whole system being a free-for-all of pointers passed around like needles at a junkie convention and that being the entire basis for the message-passing system isn't just going to go away because you picked a different CPU to do it on.
But between A1000 and A4000 they made no improvement to the machines A/V until 1991. Improvements like more colours on screen in 320x200, more blitter bandwidth, HAM8. All could have been done before A500+. Sound was never improved, even dual Paula config would have been welcome in AGA.
Commodore failed to realise they were fighting two fronts. Mac+PC for £2000+ and £150 SNES+SEGA and finally. More money was lost to console sales than 486PC Doom £1000 setups, and by 1988/9 there were non x86 computers/consoles with 256 colours vs the A500 using 2.5 year old A1000 chipset for 5 years was a joke! (and a pig ugly case)
Oh, no argument there (well, except that I like the A500's case,) my point was just that holding up the eventual introduction of an autoconfiguring expansion bus to the PC world as The Very Reason that PCs won out is silly when (A) that didn't even happen until after Commodore was gone and (B) the Amiga had one from the get-go. I will in no way dispute that Commodore's post-OCS R&D sucked.
(Oh, also, saying the TG16 had 256 colors is a bit of a stretch - it had 16 palettes of 16 colors, not a true 256-color mode.)
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Lets just say it sounds like Hermans, but it doesn't mean that his opinion is a realistic representation of the actual rights of Hyperion.
Sure, I may not be Staf, you may not be Iggy and Hyperionmp may not be Ben.
Staf.
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Sure, I may not be Staf, you may not be Iggy and Hyperionmp may not be Ben.
Staf.
You're probably right Staf. Sounds like Ben, smells like Ben.
Good thing we didn't step in it. :roflmao:
And he does like litigation.
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Slashdot covered the Amiga Mini announcement.
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/03/22/1241200/amiga-returns-with-lackluster-linux-powered-mini-pc
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Add this to the list of nostalgia-baiting remakes that don't live up to their inspiration.
Ah, that warms my heart, it does...
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Slashdot covered the Amiga Mini announcement.
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/03/22/1241200/amiga-returns-with-lackluster-linux-powered-mini-pc
I loved the first comment on /.
"This is not Commodore, this is not the Amiga. This is a "
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(Oh, also, saying the TG16 had 256 colors is a bit of a stretch - it had 16 palettes of 16 colors, not a true 256-color mode.)
Ahh no I was thinking 1987 Acorn Archimedes (256/4096 colours) and the SAM coupe(ZX Spectrum compatible with 256/256 SNES style mode). Unreleased include Commodore 65 and Konix console chipsets. Even if they just made EHB a bit faster it would have helped IMO
@The comment about OS4 x86 via PPC emulator/PPC Amithlon is the short term solution. A full rewrite in pure X86 is needed after (free upgrade). But hell the fastest i7 mb+cpu setup is peanuts compared to SAM 460 mb+cpu.
Is OS4 good enough? Can't say as I never had £1000+ to waste on a slow CPU+mb :roflmao:
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i7 isn't going to get you much over a single-core CPU, though, when the OS can't do SMP - not unless you figure out a way to efficiently parallelize emulation of a single CPU across multiple cores.
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i7 isn't going to get you much over a single-core CPU, though, when the OS can't do SMP - not unless you figure out a way to efficiently parallelize emulation of a single CPU across multiple cores.
Yes, this is a good point,
When I built an AROS system I used a single core Athlon 64 and overclocked it.
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I loved the first comment on /.
"This is not Commodore, this is not the Amiga. This is a "
hands down, this one is the best : http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2740745&cid=39439549
:)
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I can't stand apple products but this statement over at slashdot is priceless!
"Know what else has a Core i7 processor? a Mac Mini.
They only have 4GB of memory by default, but at $999 you can get one with dual 7200rpm 500GB hard drives, Intel HD 3000 graphics, and a copy of Lion Server. There's no bluray, but it's also less than half the price of this Amiga DOA box.
When your product is a less attractive knockoff of an Apple design and somehow you manage to more than double an Apple price... I'm guessing your future does not include being filthy stinking rich."
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Why this thread has 9k views is beyond my understanding.. once again i ask who cares about one person's opinion?
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Why this thread has 9k views is beyond my understanding.. once again i ask who cares about one person's opinion?
Well, you, for one...