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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Gaming => Topic started by: Kermito on March 25, 2003, 01:22:09 AM
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According to this article (http://www.gamespy.com/top10/march03/genres/index4.shtml) the graphic adventure genre is the top of the top ten on the list of game genres dying. :-o
This makes me very sad because graphic adventure is my favorite genre of video games. :-(
what do anyone else thinks?
To be honest the last instalment of Monkey Island wasn't a lot of a challenge. I think the first two (that I played on the miggy) were so much better.
Maybe it is easier to develop games that doesn't require actual thinking but more pushing buttons like a monkey. :-x
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They are also my favorite :( Not many good titles came out recently. After Grim Fandango and Monkey Island 4 there were only Syberia and that other one iI forgot.
There are Full Throttle 2 and Syberia 2 coming but that's pretty much all I know.
Gamers now demand immediate gratification, so we all are bombed with crappy games like the latest Indiana Jones - 3rd person games with puzzles.
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Graphic adventure games are also my favorite. Well worth the money.
Maybe game delveloper could use all of our advanced hardware (and OSs) to make the stories "more" non-linear and bigger.
Also I think that they should stick to traditional 2D animated (cartoon?) style instead of the new 3D style. Just my 2 cents.
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Hoya!
@ottomobiehl
I agree with you.
I DO believe that fecking 3D killed video games. Nowadays people are so brainwashed by flashy 3D graphics that they are always wating for the latest texture instead of really focusing on the ACTUAL interest of the game.
Just have a look at today's games:
-Car races.
-Doom clones.
-Tomb Raider clones.
That's all.
Really lame, isn't it?
/me misses good ol' 80's arcade games...
Be funky
M A D
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/me misses good ol' 80's arcade games...
Ah yes, the 80s arcade games were the best. Lets not forget about C=64 games of the 80s. Bruce Lee is still one of my favorites followed by Zak McKraken, and Maniac Mansion.
Even the old 1541s and their incredibly slow load times had their purpose. Those were the times for bathroom breaks and beverage runs. :-D
Maybe I'm old fashioned but if I want 3D I'll play Bards Tale 1, 2 or 3. :-P
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I also have always loved these games. The only thing I never liked was that most of them were so strongly story driven that you had little choice of doing what you wanted, when you wanted.
So that's the real challenge in my opinion, creating games that are both story driven and nearly open-ended.
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Hoya!
@ottomobiehl
Well, I have never actually owned a C64, I was (and still am) an Amstrad CPC freak.
But it is no problem since almost every game was released on several platforms :-)
The CPC version of Bruce Lee was... AWFUL! The graphics were horrible and the gameplay was lame too! :-)
Be funky.
M A D
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MAD wrote:
Hoya!
@ottomobiehl
I agree with you.
I DO believe that fecking 3D killed video games. Nowadays people are so brainwashed by flashy 3D graphics that they are always wating for the latest texture instead of really focusing on the ACTUAL interest of the game.
Just have a look at today's games:
-Car races.
-Doom clones.
-Tomb Raider clones.
That's all.
Really lame, isn't it?
/me misses good ol' 80's arcade games...
Be funky
M A D
Did you forget the following genres?
Role Playing Game with 3D GFX e.g. Diablo II, Final Fantasy Series, Neverwinter Nights Series.
Real Time Strategy with 3D GFX e.g. Command and Conquer – Generals, Homeworld, Startrek Armada II, Dark Reign II and ‘etc’.
RPG + RTS hybrid e.g. Warcraft III
Turn Based Strategy with 3D Gfx e.g. Starfleet Command II, Lord of Magic and ‘etc’.
Titles such as Epic's Unreal II has character-based interactions.
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Hello Kermito,
I still remember the thrill of playing Maniac Mansion,
the fun of playing Zak McKracken and the laughs I had when I played The Secret of Monkey Island!! :-D :-D
On my Vic 20 I've played around 5 text adventures, I loved it! And specially when I saw those kind of text adventures turned into graphic adventures.
It would really be a shame if there wouldn't be any graphic adventures anymore.
Spidey
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My guess is that the genre will just fully migrate to 3D, just like all the old school strategr/war games have done.
@Spidey - cool avatar!
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This makes me very sad because graphic adventure is my favorite genre of video games.
what do anyone else thinks?
I think it's a load of BS :)
The guy who wrote the article didn't do a lot of research.
Adventure games have simply developed a bit. Sometimes they cross over a bit and become more RPG-like, like the awesome Shenmue (Dreamcast) and Shenmue II (Dreamcast/Xbox). Oh, and the title someone couldn't remember was probably the Broken Sword-series.
For people looking for oldskool action (shooters etc.) I recommend picking up a Dreamcast and games like Gigawing 1+2, Mars Matrix etc. - that console had more awesome arcade games than any other console.
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on the contrary... i think the adventure game is in for a comeback...but slowly.
What was needed was a good adventure, and Syberia was good. It sold very well too and got wide acclaim in the games community.
Now, there are in the pipeline: Syberia 2 (october 2003 and looking fabulous), Runaway (which looks absolutely fabulous, just like playing a cartoon, and which got top scores in all countries were it was released), Broken Sword 3, Sam & Max 2 (Lucasarts), Longest Journey 2, Full throttle 2 (Lucasarts).
Not a bad line up.
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Hi z5,
This line up of games. Are they for the pc market or also for the Amiga market?
(After Simon the Sorcerer I didn´t follow it anymore)
@Karlos
Thanks :-D
I still like this avatar.
Spidey
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What a stupid article!
For a start Virtual Reatily and Lightgun are not genres they're pieces of hardware. Almost any type of game could potentially be made into a VR game.
Text adventures haven't been a major genre since the early Spectrum days, but there are still online games around, and they don't look to be dying out.
Puzzle games are hardly dying out, thousands are playing boxes and tetris on their phones.
It's a shame that there aren't any Double Dragon style beat-em-ups any more. I'd love to play a 3d version of Target Renegade.
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MAD wrote:
/me misses good ol' 80's arcade games...
Heh, you should read Mr Biffo's column in the current Edge magazine :-)
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Woah, Diablo isn't real role playing. Its clicking fast with sound in between. Warcraft is Not a RPG, you don't excatly get a dialog menu. Its an RTS game with a story. RTS in general, homeworld, Startrek? (haven't played) are different because of 3D, but the majority of games theres no difference.... Warcraft 3 could easily have been 2D and not lost any value. some of your games listed were a good thought (Neverwinter, Homeworld) but most, it never helped they're 3D and there are equally good 2D games out there. Such as Starcraft, Baldur's Gate, Civil War Generals, Stars!, et cetera.
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Hi,
Adventure games are coming back !
Check this one: http://runaway-game.com
Sam'n'Max2 for 2004...
Monkey5 ?
etc...
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Fellas, if Cinemaware (http://www.cinemaware.com)[/url] make their long awaited comeback as expected. Then graphical adventures ala It came from the Desert will make it back, and with the added bonus of a once mighty Amiga games company at the helm.
Cinemaware are already selling all their old classics on the GBA platform. So its only a matter of time now.
I also think that the graphical adventure has crossed over into other genres as gfx have improved. Gfx nowadays are detailed enough to allow for greater interactions ala the RPG titles like Interplays Fallout series.
Also, you can say that even more recent space sims like Freelancer, have the immersive role playing element that early graphical adventures strived to achieve. MAFIA, for instance was attempted by Cinemaware's King of Chicago, the only difference being about 10 years of h/w development. But their aim of creating an immersive world was the same.
So if anything, games have evolved to incorporate a little of everything that wasn't possible before.
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I agree with most of the comments about the article being crap. The problems is that I haven't seen any new graphic adventure game in the way they used to be. I good that lucasarts is thinking in producing sequels, but what happen to sierra, revolution, etc??? :-?
I remember a lot of people in the amiga scene even producing utilities to make this kind of games. With hope, I might see development in this genre on the A1.
RPG and RTS I guess they are ok, but nothing compare to the hidden jokes on a good Gph Adv :-P
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Well, I have never actually owned a C64, I was (and still am) an Amstrad CPC freak.
I am ok with people who enjoyed (and still enjoy) the 8-bit computers of the day. In my mind all us are kindred spirits be it C=64, Amstrade, Apple 8-bit familey, etc. I still have my C=64 and play with it every now and then.
I believe the limitation of the systems back then forced a lot of game developers to be creative with gameplay and storys so games back then had a lot of personality. :-)
Of course with such a talented pool of game developers the Amiga came out at the right time to combine the better (superior?) graphics with exellent game development. I think that is why the Amiga holds a soft spot in my heart and probably a lot of other peoples hearts too.
Of course this is just my 2 cents worth. Thank you. :-D
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Hoya!
@Hammer
Well, those games you mention were not new genre of games. They have just been "enhanced" by 3D.
We had 3D adventures like Dungeon Master, Eye of the Beholder.
µWe had Dune 2.
We had Space Crusade.
:-P
Be funky!
M A D
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Hoya!
@Trezzer
Lol!
If I want "oldskool action" I WON'T pick up a Dreamcast.
Putting 3D everywhere is NOT oldskool!
If I want to get oldskool, I use an Amstrad CPC or MAME or I turn on my trustworthy Ammy! :-)
Believe it or not but lots of game genres are dead now BECAUSE of fecking consoles, peecees and 3D!!!
Shoot 'em up anyone?
And YES, I played GigaWing 2 on DC...
ROTFL!!!!!!!
To me, it was a turn painted in gold!
Beautiful graphics and music.
Gameplay: 0%.
Maniability: 0%.
Difficulty: 100%!
Result: impossible to be played properly!
Moreover, the DC is a 3D thing, NOT a bitmap master! Whenever there were too many bullets on screen, it slowed down incredibly...
ROTFL :-P
Gimme Battle Squadron, Project X, R-Type, Disposable Hero...
Be funky!
M A D
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I still love
Better Dead Than Alien (this game is incredible, and it fully loads into ram by itself, highly unusual.)
Persian Gulf Inferno (I lent this game to a friend, and now it's gone :-x )
Hybris
Zynaps
NightDawn
........many more
Still haven't beaten Perils of Rosella, or Space Quest 3, or was it 4?
There's nothing like, just putting a disk into the floppy drive, AND IT WORKS!!!!!
This is what I REALLY WANT TO SEE on AOS4.0.
AmigaOne! RULLEEZZZ, and I haven't even seen one iota of it in ACTION!!! :-D
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The other game caelth forgot was probably "Schism" however there is also a third installment of "Broken Sword" in development however this has migrated to full 3D.
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What about the popularity of MYST? (http://www.macgamer.com/features/?id=867) Mind you lots of people slated it. 8-)
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ottomobiehl wrote:
Well, I have never actually owned a C64, I was (and still am) an Amstrad CPC freak.
I am ok with people who enjoyed (and still enjoy) the 8-bit computers of the day. In my mind all us are kindred spirits be it C=64, Amstrade, Apple 8-bit familey, etc. I still have my C=64 and play with it every now and then.
I believe the limitation of the systems back then forced a lot of game developers to be creative with gameplay and storys so games back then had a lot of personality. :-)
Of course with such a talented pool of game developers the Amiga came out at the right time to combine the better (superior?) graphics with exellent game development. I think that is why the Amiga holds a soft spot in my heart and probably a lot of other peoples hearts too.
Of course this is just my 2 cents worth. Thank you. :-D
I completely agree with you. The Amiga came out just at the time when good game concepts were being thrown around. Cinemawares - It came from the Desert and the venerable Street Rod series and who could forget the novel Populous series
You might say that Amiga, was one of the last true gaming computers. Just like the C64, or the Spectrum. Nowadays PeeCees are but a mere shadow of the computer gaming platforms of yesteryear - they are reconditioned typewriters from the 70s. And to make matters worse, even the consoles are lacklustre by comparison.
Were has the creativity gone? The originality, the ability to create engrossing game universes. Were is the Elite of the 21st century? I'll tell you were, dead and buried under the hundreds of has been titles like Tombraider, who helped create this 3D genre for games - to our detriment mind you.
Occassionaly there is a glimmer of hope, when games like Grim Fandango came out. Or Fallout by Interplay. Or perhaps the Jagged Alliance series by Talonsoft, or the masterful and abandoned FreeSpace series by Volition. Now they are few and far between. Which is why we are all hoping for a new renaissance, ushered in with the help of the A1/OS4 platform.
Unfortunately all we can do is cross our fingers and hope.
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I dont agree, its still going strong as far as I can see. I have loved them for aslong as I can remember. I on my old PC just finished Kings Quest 3 again on my old PC laptop I have with me out here in the Gulf. To slow for UAE, and I miss my A3000!!! Get this damn war over with so I can get back to my real life!
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Well, those games you mention were not new genre of games.
My post has nothing to do with "new genre of games".
It's about this generalization and I quote;
Just have a look at today's games:
-Car races.
-Doom clones.
-Tomb Raider clones.
That's all.
Really lame, isn't it?
"That's all" wouldn't be true since there are other types of games for the modern gaming platforms.
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Were is the Elite of the 21st century?
IF you want Elite style game play refer to
1. "X2- The Threat",
+ Developer: Egosoft,
+ Plan release date: 3rd/4th Quater 2003.
2. Freelancer
+ Developer: Microsoft Game Studios
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We had Dune 2.
With Homeworld and Imperium Galactica, one has to take care of 3D positioning and tactics.
With Westwood Studio’s "Dune 2", it's only limited to 2D positing and tactics. It’s a lot closer to Westwood Studio's C&C- Generals.
We had 3D adventures like Dungeon Master, Eye of the Beholder.
Thought they are RPG.
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Hammer wrote:
Were is the Elite of the 21st century?
IF you want Elite style game play refer to
1. "X2- The Threat",
+ Developer: Egosoft,
+ Plan release date: 3rd/4th Quater 2003.
2. Freelancer
+ Developer: Microsoft Game Studios
I've played Freelancer, and its more akin to Privateer than Elite. The closest thing I have seen to Elite, is 1995? game titled First Encounters I think it was an unofficial sequel to Elite II?
Anyway, there hasn't been a proper space sim made, that captures the same character of the venerable Elite. Where the hell is the manual planet to planet navigation? Or being able to target every celestial object in the solar system? Or being able to explore the entire galaxy? (Countless star systems and not the 20 or so in Freelancer) Or the freedom of landing in any city on Earth or space station?
Where, where, WHERE?!??!?
All this magnificent technology? The new OpenGL 2.0 standard, DX9 h/w and no innovation whatsoever. Why have all these new features if you don't find creative uses for them? And just churn out more cookie cutter FPS, RTS, RPGs!
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I think the computer games industry has become too lucrative, so the 'creative thinking' is left to people who want to work out what games will primarily make money for them, and secondarily the entertainment value.
I would blame the console market as well, but I can't think of a decent reason why. I hate consoles :-) ... well no, I hate people that compare consoles to computers more, but anyway.
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Were has the creativity gone? The originality, the ability to create engrossing game universes. Were is the Elite of the 21st century? I'll tell you were, dead and buried under the hundreds of has been titles like Tombraider, who helped create this 3D genre for games - to our detriment mind you.
My Opinion is that the creativity has shifted. During the 80s and the early 90s we had talented story tellers who where also talented programmers as most games had a handful of programmers working on that.
Now we have creative programers who make wonderful environs and such but we lost the creative story tellers. The emphasis seems to make the next version of the same type of game.
Also back in the 80s most game companies where small business that ran like families so there was a human element attached to the games. Now it seems that mega-corporations and congomerates own game companies and the human touch is lost (sounds kinda like the movies industry too. :-P ) They just throw millions of dollars at a project and market the hell out of them in order to make millions more.
The demo scene and a lot of the shareware is made by small groups of people who love making games and believe in what they do. In most cases these tend to be the most satisfying games to play.
I am not one who would stand against anyone making money but making games is an art. And art comes through vision, passion, blood, sweat, and tears. :-)
I let my wallet do my talking. I am more willing to spend my hard earned currancy on a small budget shareware project that is good quality than the assembly line crap most "game" conglomerates dish out. ;-) (not that all games that come from the corporate side are bad.)
Sorry to rant but I like a good game. Just my 2 ...er...15 cents.
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Just to throw my opinion into the topic.
U can't slate one machine. either console or computer, against each other when it comes to playing games.
I regularly still play on my snes and N64, even if they our outdated. Why, because I own games for them I love. My fav 2d platformer of all time is yoshis island on the snes(not the ####ty one on the N64).
One of the funniest games and also one of my favs is conkers bad fur day on the N64
My fav 3d shooters are goldeneye, perfect dark on the N64 and half life on the pee cee.
My fav strategy games are settlers on the Amiga and Warcraft III on the pee cee.
I could go on, but my point is th emachine dont matter, the company dont matter.
Half life had a brilliant story line to it, nbo just running around shooting stuff, it really dragged u into what was going to happen next.
These days u have to ignore the hype and look for the good stuff. Same as with movies.
Back to the oringinal poinf of the post.
I have never played or think i ever will adventures that really imersed me into the world as monkey island 1 and 2.
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Hey JJ
U can't slate one machine. either console or computer, against each other when it comes to playing games.
Naw, I wasn't being machine specific but you are right about playing the game you like on the machine you like (i.e. nes, snes, playstation, etc.) Each have games that I have enjoyed playing.
I have never played or think i ever will adventures that really imersed me into the world as monkey island 1 and 2.
Monkey Island 1 and 2 are great and I played them often. They are kinda like a good book that you go back and read often or a place you enjoy where you can go and visit again and again.
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It is probably true that the game industry is concentrating more in marketing that in the gameplay. For example, How many copies of WWF do you need to play a decent wrestle game? or for those who like soccer, do you really need each year to buy FIFA soccer? what about games derived from films? is spiderman any good? or Yet Another Star Wars game?
I would love to see a remake of classic C64 games like Project Fire Star or Caveman-Ughlympics...
Creativity is the thing missing from most of the recent games. I really admire the people from squaresoft that make those brilliant RPG in a low level hardware as some people think the PS2 is compared to PC like xbox, but I don't believe that a good game requires the latest state-of- art technology.
The success of the game industry is based in the consumer of crap games, rather than the quality of the games. Amiga developers used to have good crativity, until they jump to PC or consoles :-(
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3D positioning in Imperium Galactica, you Must not be talking about the first one which was a DOS game and was as 2D as it gets.
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@Kermito
I would love to see a remake of classic C64 games like Project Fire Star or Caveman-Ughlympics...
Creativity is the thing missing from most of the recent games. I really admire the people from squaresoft that make those brilliant RPG in a low level hardware as some people think the PS2 is compared to PC like xbox, but I don't believe that a good game requires the latest state-of- art technology.
I agree with you 100%. Perhaps game developers should develop thier games on basic stripped down systems to hammer out gameplay and originality then give them the killer systems to add the eye candy. Maybe we can get some original/fun games like we used to have instead of the cookie cutter mass produced stuff we have now. :ranting:
Just a thought...
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I think a lot of this "oh where has all the originality gone" is euphoric recall. How many times do you think "I'll have a look at such-and-such", get excited at the prospect then quickly recall 3-minute intros you couldn't skip past, poor or non-existant logic and AI, saves to floppy only, games that do not use expanded memory and so forth (not all cases I know).
I certainly think title like Tomb Raider were excellent, utilising 3D itself to make the puzzles ingenious, I recall one scenario where activating a lever rotated a whole game environment 90 degrees and so on, maximising use of the layout. Likewise Jak n Daxter and similar are excellent. Then there is the Resident Evil series, the Silent Hill series ... etc... The latest Final Fantasy series games are 3D only in as much as the backgrounds are now polygon built, were they prerendered instead they would be pretty much a "2D game" also.
I don't necessarily think "3D = bad", time moves on and the customer expects 3D where it is possible. So what? Rate the games on individual merit.
It's as if people "remember" a Golden Age (maybe that should be a Golden Axe?) wherein ALL games were superb, without exception. Go download a stack of games assuming you are without pre-existing knowledge from back2roots or similar, they'll be 80% garbage just like nowadays.
Good games are good games irrespective of 2D versus 3D. You can't polish a turd.
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Good games are good games irrespective of 2D versus 3D. You can't polish a turd.
I must say I agree, except on one point. You _can_ of course polish a turd. Whether one would want to is a completely different matter.
The thing about games is to play the games you like, and then stop playing them once you stop liking them. You don't _have_ to only play quake-style games, but how are you going to know you hate them all if you only ever played Doom? I could mention so many crappy old Amiga games, but I won't. Because they aren't worthy of a mention. Except "Chariots of wrath". Man, that one had me cursing myself for spending money on things I see in shops...
The business has always been to keep pushing what sold best last year, and it's not going to change any time soon. But for cying out loud buy the games you like, and don't waste breath complaining about there being too many of the other types. Money is the only thing that matters to the gaming business. Complaints from people who aren't buying seldom get's you anywhere. I see it all the time. If you actually DO as those people say, they have another excuse for not buying... :-)
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Hi !
I dont ' think graphis adventures games are really dying, but maybe get other features : aftel all, what are the final fantasy (7, 8 and 9...not the 10... i didn' t see it) if they aren' t graphic adventure, with a little battle from time to time ? What is Exile (Myst 3) if not a graphic advenure, at this exception that the graphic is an environement ?
By the way, MAD, do you go to amstrad CPC meetings ? Maybe we know each other :-)
If you' re interested, There is a CPC meeting the second week end of june (about the 10th...) at Coutances
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aftel all, what are the final fantasy (7, 8 and 9...not the 10... i didn' t see it) if they aren' t graphic adventure, with a little battle from time to time ? What is Exile (Myst 3) if not a graphic advenure, at this exception that the graphic is an environement ?
Perhaps these games take some of the best (or worst) elements of graphic adventures and use them in thier own games.
I have only played a couple of Final Fantasy games (7, and 8) and they seemed to be just linear ploted RPGs with pretty, prerendered backgrounds (no I haven't played the new one for PS2.) I enjoyed playing the games but after solving them they lost their replay value to me.