Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Hardware News => Topic started by: Peggus on February 07, 2003, 09:39:48 PM
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Soft3 hast posted some pictures of a working AmigaOne G4-XE along with pictures of the Dual 7410 cpu module.
soft3 Web site (http://www.soft3.net/pages/pictures.php)
Alan has also posted a msg (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amigaone/message/24914) on the mailinglist regarding the price difference between the teron px on sale by Terrasoft and their own products. It would seem that it's posssible to upgrade a linux only board to run OS4.
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Nice to se some news..
I am really excited about the new amiga...
But for me this HW is useles without AOS. I don't care for linux, and if I want to run linux. I will use x86 hw.
I want AOS4 with PPC HW...
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Man! This is the news we have all been waiting for! Impressive pictures, and the Debian Linux is looking very beatiful! Really impressive, and even more impressive is the Dual CPU-module! Great stuffs!
Good work, Eyetech! :-) :-D :-D :-D :-D
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Soft3 rocks!!!!!!!!!! :-D
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*Bodie drools :-P over the sight of that dual cpu module*
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Yep, those dual G4's look very nice
Anyway, just wanted to say I'm running Debian on my A1 and have sucesfully installed Mac-On-Linux. MOL is fast enough on this G3 600MHz so on a G4 it must fly,
I'm very impressed with Debian/MOL. Next up is to install UAE then i'm gonna play with Mac, Linux and Amiga on one desktop
This is my first post from my AmigaOne
Cheers,
J
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I want ONE. Roooaarghh. :-D
But wallet is empty. Damn!
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Those inflated prices of A-one boards are old news.. There have been lot's of discussion of those on Ann.lu days ago.. :-D :-D :-D
And that Linux->Amiga kit.. It's public info on KDH and Vesalia sites.. :-P
What I would like to hear from Alan are real new info, like status of those Aone-Xe boards they supposed to deliver some time ago. But apparently it was not important enough info to give us.
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WOW!!!
ive been waiting for some pics of these!
i was thinking they might of been vapour ware!
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@JoannaK
I agree, they never update their website but seem to think everyone is going to read announcements on mailing lists,
Cmon update your website even if it just to let people know your Alive/Active.
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Very nice pics, indeed. Good to finally see a pic of the dual cpu board. Now if they can just get all this stuff together and out to the shops to buy! (Patience, I know)
The new pic also has a rom in the socket next to the PCI slots, anyone know what that is for? It's not in any of the previous pics. (OS4 rom maybe?? or Artica fix rom? or ???)
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"What I would like to hear from Alan are real new info, like status of those Aone-Xe boards they supposed to deliver some time ago."
Yeah, Where are those XE board that were suppost to ship by the end of next Saturday (mid-Feb)? :-D
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Hm, sad. Why "drool and cheer" over a motherboard that only runs Linux at the time being? AmigaOS 4 might change everything - granted, that will be cool! - but I'm for sure not going "ooh aah" and creaming my pants because Eyetech now took pictures of a print and a G4.
Hello, Hyperion? You made the kernel work some time ago. How's the rest of the OS coming along? Software is coming out for MorphOS and people in favour of AmigaOS4 is requesting ports and stuff like that. Now, where's AOS4?
Hardware is real. Unfortunately, it blows goats spending $$$ on a Linux platform inferior to any x86 setup you could get for the same amount of money. Not that Linux cares. It behaves just about the same either way (did last time I checked anyway).
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but I'm for sure not going "ooh aah" and creaming my pants because Eyetech now took pictures of a print and a G4.
:roll:
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The ROM is actually the BIOS. These boards don't need any "April", "March" or whatever fix. They have the new sillicon revision of the Articia S chipset.
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And another nice feature that i know :-D:-D:-D:-D:-D
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volmer write:
Now, where's AOS4?
Like I said before, no more info on forums or mailing lists from me. Not because there isn't anything to report (quite the contrary) but because information I have given in the past is willfully distorted or quoted out of context, or simply misinterpreted.
spending $$$ on a Linux platform inferior to any x86 setup
Any x86 setup? I've benchmarked my G4/800 against a Duron 1200 with one of our linux games (SiN), and the G4 was almost twice as fast (typically about 50% faster).
That was a 7451 without L3 cache... Now you might argue about the Duron 1200, but it just shows that "any x86 setup" is a bit far-fetched.
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Good to see some pictures of g4 not much longer and we might get them. :-D
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The ROM is actually the BIOS. These boards don't need any "April", "March" or whatever fix. They have the new sillicon revision of the Articia S chipset.
Ahh... PPC Boot? I thought that was already there somewhere else, but that would make sense. Yeah, I remember reading now that the new board would have the revised Artica chip.
Now about those benchmarks... Very interesting. Did you use dual cpu's for that? Just curious. I'm sure OS4 will do as well or better.
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But for me this HW is useles without AOS. I don't care for linux, and if I want to run linux. I will use x86 hw.
Then buy a Pegasos. You won't be forced to run Linux and you can run your old apps. What more do you want?
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Then buy a Pegasos. You won't be forced to run Linux and you can run your old apps. What more do you want?
What more does he want? Likely he wants AmigaOS4! :-) Sure MorphOS is nice, but for Amiga software compatibility he could run UAE on Linux as well and probably use a much larger percentage of his legacy software!
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Mike, you've never run the latest MorphOS to the best of my knowledge, how would you know how much software it can and cannot run?
If you use an experience with the old betas, then your experience is schewed. I'd point out that an early NT Beta could not run a lot of win32 programs. But 2k (the released version of that beta) is quite kind to me and runs all of them.
So please, before you start making such wild claims as compatability issues, run the product first.
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So please, before you start making such wild claims as compatability issues, run the product first.
And maybe I and some friends did test a recent version of MorphOS...
As you probably have access to the latest MorphOS updates, can I make out of this that you say that currently MorphOS offers a similar level of 68k Amiga software compatibility as compared to UAE solutions? :-o ;-)
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Want to use the maximum of legacy SW ?
Forget A1, forget Pegasos forget Linux-UAE !!
Just buy a WinTel and run the latest WinUAE.
Do you really think OS4 will be more compatible just because of the name ?
And thats something that can't be answered till it's a out.
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I see that the XE is utilising the on-board audio facility of the southbridge (which I assume is still a 686B) and thus removing the need for the AMR slot.
There is a lot of free space on the motherboard.
Shame that the IDE/floppy/etc headers don't have the plastic surrounds, they are just bare pins sticking up.
Hmmm, I wonder where the 3COM network controller has moved to on the motherboard?
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Just buy a WinTel and run the latest WinUAE.
If you own a Windows box then WinUAE is a nice additional solution for Amigans. I have recently written an extensive article (http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=1561) for WinUAE beginners at OSNews.
Anyway Kronos, I believe you have misread this discussion between Downix and me. My relpy was regarding, wanting something else than just Amiga software compatibility. In which case UAE solutions offer more software compatibility due to chipset emulations.
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oh, for goodness sake....
Amiga OS4 is gonna crush morphos.
Go ahead.
"how do you know this"?
:-D
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Mike, you've never run the latest MorphOS to the best of my knowledge, how would you know how much software it can and cannot run?
Because morphos does no chipset emulation? So yes, UAE does definately run more software than morphos.
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Well I read the message from Alan, and it doesn't really say anything new.
Bascially, the Teron from eyetech and the Teron from Terrasoft are the same board, and when purchased with Linux they are the same price. (except Alan doesn't set the prices for the local dealer, so the AmigaOne is far more expensive than the Boxer)
So you pay more for the AmigaOne than the terrasoft, but if you need to buy local, than you just may buy the AmigaOne.
I certainly understand someone might make that choice.
What is harder to understand is why OS4 is only available to people who purchased the eyetech Teron board, and not available to people who purchase the terrrasoft Teron board.
And the price of OS4, why so expenisive? Because of copy protection schemes? But copy protection schemes don't add that much to the cost.
The other theory seems to be support (but they are obligated to provide no support, and history tells us they don't)...and for advertising...WOW, at $100 PER board for advertising, the amiga websites should be getting the big $$$$ very soon...this is really good news...
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
seriously, it doesn't matter the reasons...I know support and advertising are a joke, the companies need the money to pay their overhead...heck maybe they need it for an operation for grandma, there are really good reasons always....
but basically, it comes down to supply and demand, and will there be demand for a board, grossly overpriced, but with the official name, when there are alternative choices at more reasonable prices....
time will tell, and as much as I like prognosticating...I really have no idea who will prevail...should be an interesting year.
Personally, if OS 4 is released in March, then I just might prefer OS 4.....but if on top of everything else, they don't even release the product, then heck with it.....
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@MarkTime:
You seem to not wanting to see the reality:
first of all,Terrasoft solutions are distributing Teron CX boards at $499 price.That is confirmed by three ways:the photo on his webpage,The distribution licence by MAI for the Teron CX,not the PX at nearly $500 as stated on MAI Website,and the new "(price are under revision)" item on the terrasoft page for the Teron PX.
Second,When you buy the AmigaOne from local dealers,price has been set to avoid competence,that is the price in Vesalia,KDH,Eyetech,must be nearly the same,so you aren`t paying more by buying it local,the gain for these systems are the bundles that each dealer wants to set,as complete systems.Then you can confirm that nearly $80 of difference that you pay more than on terrasoft systems is the real difference for licensing OS4,and yes,you also get Linux distro and OS4 for free when it became available.
So please,stop starting useless without facts threads.
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>first of all,Terrasoft solutions are distributing
>Teron CX boards at $499 price
No, the TeronCX is no longer produced. Terrasoft
confirmed by email (according to comments on
ann.lu) that the price is indeed for TeronPX with a
G4/800.
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@Zacman:
Agree with you that the teron CX is no longer in production,but my point is,that some people are spreading FUD with the incorrect showing price on the terrasoft page of the Teron PX motherboard,so,confirmed or not,now you can see that the price of $499 showed on his webpage is no longer there,and nobody has done yet a correct price comparison with FACTS between the real price (yet unseen) of Teron PX and AmigaOne XE G4 as stated before on another thread.
The first licence that comes from MAI to Terrasoft were for distributing Teron CX systems,you can check this on MAI site,with a price of about $500,that is nearly the same price of Teron PX G4 showed in Terrasoft webpage.Strange,don`t you think so?
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@Ami603
Beat me to it. They have revised the page (unless my browser just isn't special enough.)
"Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard, YDL: (Price is being revised) + Shipping"
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@Madgun:
You win!! :-D:-D
but some people start making statements without knowledge or real Facts.
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but some people start making statements without knowledge or real Facts.
Yeah.. It's pretty sad. I took a look at the discussion on ANN, which is just pathetic. People are finding every excuse possible to troll.
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That criticism is NOT valid.
Terrasoft did state in e-mail that the $499 was the price for the board...Teron PX with G4/800.
They also stated, if they did decide to change the price it wouldn't be by much.
I did all the research POSSIBLE...and contacted them directly.
I bet you someone convinced them they could get more money, they shouldn't lower the price until the initial demand wears off.
Oh well, now we don't have a price, but $380 was the gap yesterday......
if it changed this morning, then all that can be said, is we don't know the price difference....
I'm am definately not convinced that Terrasoft arbitrarily raising the price (if indeed that is what is happening) is a good thing at all....
at $499 a G4/800mhz board is WAY overpriced...
its a strange value system where people are glad for price increases...I usually prefer the price decrease....oh well, when in Rome :-)
I will give 'the gap' when the prices are revised..........
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Whats the purpose of all this hardware, when os4 wont be ready before atleast end of 2003........... SIGH
Too late for me. 3-4 year old expensive outdated hardware when os4 is ready...
I finally see the truth... amiga is dead :-( :cry:
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>>MikeB said
>>Sure MorphOS is nice, but for Amiga software compatibility he could run UAE on Linux as well and probably use a much larger percentage of his legacy software!
>>In which case UAE solutions offer more software compatibility due to chipset emulations.
You seem to forget that MorphOS has an UAE too. Or do you want to claim that LinuxUAE will run more Amiga software than MorphOS' A-Box and MorphOS-UAE together?
You should also not forget that you can run MorphOS applications right from the start (which have the Amiga look&feel) instead of Linux apps for an unforeseeable time. (maybe forever?!)
And also dont forget, that A-Box' JIT performance is ways higher than the Linux/WinUAE-JIT..
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzz..*shork* huh? AOS4? no?
zzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Did you use dual cpu's for that? Just curious. I'm sure OS4 will do as well or better.
No, that was a single Motorola PowerPC 7451 at 800 MHz. The dual module I have only has two 7410 (yeah, "only" two :-) )
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The dual module I have only has two 7410 (yeah, "only" two : )
:-D
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I wonder where the 3COM network controller has moved to on the motherboard?
The network port is now above the USB sockets, and the 3Com has moved behind this. Since both views of the board are from behind, it is hidden behind the USB sockets, but on the first picture you can see it sticking out at the side between network and parallel port.
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@ logain
You seem to forget that MorphOS has an UAE too.
No I wasn't and for the record UAE ports are available for almost all better known OSes, including MacOS, AmigaDE and even AmigaOS itself.
The point of the original discussion was that an user was likely waiting specificly for AmigaOS4 and not solely for compatibility with Amiga software, for which there are many alternatives. According to community polls a new Amithon emulation solution by Bernie is the most popular, followed by an AmigaOS4/AmigaOne solution.
You should also not forget that you can run MorphOS applications right from the start (which have the Amiga look&feel) instead of Linux apps for an unforeseeable time.
Yes, the entire ABOX is built on top of an Alien kernel, above this kernel is a second "reimplemented" Amiga-like Exec kernel. Everything within the ABOX is very Amiga-like, a similar structure, similar filenames, similar components, etc. Just like with Amithlon (Linux), the underlying kernel/OS is hidden from the user. Quark is just as alien to AmigaOS, as for instance QNX Neutrino or Mach.
And also dont forget, that A-Box' JIT performance is ways higher than the Linux/WinUAE-JIT..
This depends on the hardware as well.
Funny enough lately with every positive AmigaOS4/AmigaOne thread, there seems to be attempts to artificially transform it into a MorphOS propaganda thread. ;-)
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@ logain
Quote:
You seem to forget that MorphOS has an UAE too.
No I wasn't and for the record UAE ports are available for almost all better known OSes, including MacOS, AmigaDE and even AmigaOS itself.
The point of the original discussion was that an user was likely waiting specificly for AmigaOS4 and not solely for compatibility with Amiga software, for which there are many alternatives. According to community polls a new Amithon emulation solution by Bernie is the most popular, followed by an AmigaOS4/AmigaOne solution.
Last time I checked, however, I didn't ask "what was more popular."
And as for your chipset support arguement, I don't see any AGA chips on the A1, and in the AOS4 documentation, it doesn't mention any chipset support, so it looks like AOS4 and MOS are equal in that respect. Note, I said "looks" as there is no AOS4 to compare with.
Quote:
You should also not forget that you can run MorphOS applications right from the start (which have the Amiga look&feel) instead of Linux apps for an unforeseeable time.
Yes, the entire ABOX is built on top of an Alien kernel, above this kernel is a second "reimplemented" Amiga-like Exec kernel. Everything within the ABOX is very Amiga-like, a similar structure, similar filenames, similar components, etc. Just like with Amithlon (Linux), the underlying kernel/OS is hidden from the user. Quark is just as alien to AmigaOS, as for instance QNX Neutrino or Mach.
Or ExecSG, which is also an alien kernel that can emulate the Executive Library.
Quote:
And also dont forget, that A-Box' JIT performance is ways higher than the Linux/WinUAE-JIT..
This depends on the hardware as well.
Funny enough lately with every positive AmigaOS4/AmigaOne thread, there seems to be attempts to artificially transform it into a MorphOS propaganda thread.
Here's the worlds smallest fiddle there Mike, and it's playing just for you.
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As you probably have access to the latest MorphOS updates, can I make out of this that you say that currently MorphOS offers a similar level of 68k Amiga software compatibility as compared to UAE solutions?
You can make of it whatever you will, which is what you will do anyways.
But for the record, MorphOS is running 68k Amiga software now. This does put it ahead of AOS4, which isn't shipping atm in order to allow a proper comparison of the two platforms.
However, unless Hyperion's somehow managed to hire ubercoders of the netherworld, it's doubtful that they've done better emulation in 2 years than the MorphOS team has done in 4.
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>>MikeB
>>>>You seem to forget that MorphOS has an UAE too
>>No I wasn't ..
Ok sorry, then i misunderstood this sentence: "In which case UAE solutions offer more software compatibility due to chipset emulations".
>>.. and for the record UAE ports are available for almost all better known OSes, including MacOS, AmigaDE and even AmigaOS itself.
Thats true..but just for the record, A-DE is not an OS (and definitly not "better known" )
>>According to community polls a new Amithon emulation solution by Bernie is the most popular, followed by an AmigaOS4/AmigaOne solution.
Is it? I know other polls ;-)
>>Yes, the entire ABOX is built on top of an Alien kernel, above this kernel is a second "reimplemented" Amiga-like Exec kernel.
So when OS5 comes (if ever) you'll also whine about its alien kernel and the second "reimplemented" Amiga-like Exec kernel which runs in a "sandbox"?
>>>>And also dont forget, that A-Box' JIT performance is ways higher than the Linux/WinUAE-JIT..
>>This depends on the hardware as well.
Sure..i was of course speaking about equal systems.
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@ Downix
Last time I checked, however, I didn't ask "what was more popular."
I fail to see your point. *I* was talking about which solution is more popular, even amongst (http://www.amiga-news.de/forum/umfrage.php3?action=showOldResultsDetail&id=15) mainly German Aachen show visitors (Peg/MOS are German products, Genesi focussed event). So there is a much larger group amongst our little community, who want to have AmigaOS4 specificly.
A group of Germans would prefer a Pegasos/AmigaOS4 combination, which of course will not happen before Genesi signs a contract. And it should be noted that this was also influenced by Genesi's FUD spread about Mai and Eyetech's products, which may backfire as AmigaOne-XE boards use the new Articia chipsets, unlike still unavailable Pegasos boards.
But considering Genesi's crusade, I doubt that this would become possible any time soon.
Do not forget that you asked: "What more do you want?". Answer "AmigaOS4".
so it looks like AOS4 and MOS are equal in that respect.
The point is that many people want AmigaOS4 specificly, the legacy Amiga software compatibility isn't a decisive argument to many. It would be fairly easy to create a UAE solution, including chipset emulations on top of a Linux, QNX or whatever other kernel, which then takes over the complete system in a similar way like the ABOX currently does.
Or ExecSG, which is also an alien kernel that can emulate the Executive Library.
Correction, ExecSG is a new and improved PPC version of the original Exec kernel. There is no additional kernel running on top of ExecSG.
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Ok sorry, then i misunderstood this sentence: "In which case UAE solutions offer more software compatibility due to chipset emulations".
Yes you must have, UAE offers more compatibility with Amiga software than an ABOX. UAE normally does not take over the complete system, like Amithlon and ABOX/(MorphOS) do, however if there was a large demand for this it would not be too difficult to accomplish. You could even run UAE inside UAE if you like...
Thats true..but just for the record, A-DE is not an OS (and definitly not "better known" )
The AmigaDE is an OS, with intent being its foundation. Some think the AmigaDE is something which runs on top of intent, but actually the AmigaDE simply includes intent.
If you meant to say that the AmigaDE isn't currently a desktop targeted OS, then I would agree. But intent can either run hosted as a transparent compatibility layer on top of other OSes or the OS can also be used non-hosted, like is the case with Kyocera's Pocket Cosmo (http://www.stormloader.com/amiga/cosmo.htm) PDA for example.
So when OS5 comes (if ever) you'll also whine about its alien kernel and the second "reimplemented" Amiga-like Exec kernel which runs in a "sandbox"?
First of, AmigaOS5 (64-bit) is still a long way off. And I do not think sandboxes would be implemented in the same way as currently is done with the ABOX, where the sandbox takes over the complete system. And for the record I am not whining... I am trying to be informative! :-)
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How much extra is the "Dual G4" going to cost ?
Me is interested !!
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And also dont forget, that A-Box' JIT performance is ways higher than the Linux/WinUAE-JIT..
Bench numbers for 68K Quake I would be nice...
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MikeB wrote:
Funny enough lately with every positive AmigaOS4/AmigaOne thread, there seems to be attempts to artificially transform it into a MorphOS propaganda thread.
Here's the worlds smallest fiddle there Mike, and it's playing just for you.
Im not a MikeB fan but he does have a point and there was no need for that.
I go back to the whinging
that certain people did when every pro-MOS/Pegasos topic on ANN and Amiga.org was inundated with similar anti MOS/Pegasos propaganda campaigns. Everyone got heartily
sick of it then too.
Problem is Downix is that your activities and that of
a few others are now noticiably propagandist and are starting to have the opposite effect of what you
intend because you have overdone it.
Everyone knows who the propaganda corps are and
who the real users with an interest are. :-P
In fact I don't know why MikeB pointed it out to you
to be honest ... carry straight on ... please. ;-) Every post you make I can almost hear the sound of the
Eyetech cash register going one more time.
If you and your buddies carry on like this the worlds
smallest violin will be all you can afford. :-D
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@ DaveP
Im not a MikeB fan
Phew, what a relieve. ;-)
Every post you make I can almost hear the sound of the Eyetech cash register going one more time.
One thing you can be sure of, I will not go onto MorphOS community websites to tell people that they should buy Eyetech's solutions instead, or artificially take over positive MorphOS threads. And for the record I have only ever stated that the Pegasos is a well designed motherboard, just like the AmigaOne-XE.
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One thing you can be sure of, I will not go onto MorphOS community websites to tell people that they should buy Eyetech's solutions instead, or artificially take over positive MorphOS threads. And for the record I have only ever stated that the Pegasos is a well designed motherboard, just like the AmigaOne-XE.
I Agree
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Nobody's said that the Teron boards are bad. I did bring up the EOL status of some of the chips on it, but of course Mai is aware of that and will likely be solving that in the near future. I happen to like the feature list of the Pegasos better, and like it's smaller form factor. But, the Teron is a decent board. All I asked was what more someone wanted, to get the flames above (yes, I did some flaming as well admittedly). I could have asked in a better way, to best not put people on the agressive, so sorry about that. I started a thread in the general boards to better discuss what I really wanted to know, so I'll discuss this more there if anybody would like to, friendly-like if you dont' mind.
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I happen to like the feature list of the Pegasos better, and like it's smaller form factor.
The Pegasos is excellently designed hardware. If the hardware would come with AmigaOS4/PPCBoot and offers G4 CPU options at a time of proper availability, I would surely consider buying a board in addition to getting an AmigaOS-XE.
My personal preference would however go towards an AmigaOne-XE solution, as I currently prefer to have an additional PCI slot instead of a smaller form factor board.
to get the flames above
I haven't seen any real flames in reply to your messages. My reactions were intended to be informative and there was just some little general criticism with regard to AmigaOne news items resulting into Pegasos propaganda threads.
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>>MikeB
>>My personal preference would however go towards an AmigaOne-XE solution, as I currently prefer to have an additional PCI slot instead of a smaller form factor board.
To my knowledge, the first 66-MHz PCI-Slot is completely shared with AGPx2. So you can only use 3 PCI when using an AGP-Card otherwise you'll need the additional PCI for a PCI-GFX-card.
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To my knowledge, the first 66-MHz PCI-Slot is completely shared with AGPx2. So you can only use 3 PCI when using an AGP-Card otherwise you'll need the additional PCI for a PCI-GFX-card.
This is a very very old argument & has been cleared along time ago by Eyetech.
All 4 PCI Slots work even with a AGP Gfx card in place.
Go to the AoneML & check for yourself.
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To my knowledge, the first 66-MHz PCI-Slot is completely shared with AGPx2.
Yes, the FUD/misinformation campaigns by certain individuals in the past have been fairly effective.
There are two buses,
* 3 x 33 MHz PCI on one bus
* 1 x AGP (2x) and 1 x 66/33 MHz PCI on the other
There's nothing wrong with this. What it does mean is that, if you use an AGP grahics card in combination with a *very high bandwidth* PCI card on the *same bus*, the performance of either may suffer from bottlenecked performance. There's nothing here for anyone to spread FUD about, I would recommend to consume most of such statements with extreme scepticism.
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but the AGP is slowed down to 1x .....
@MikeB
Whats so special about PPCBoot ?
Just a cheap replacement as they couldn't get a working OF.
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Poster: MikeB Date: 2003/2/9 13:22:31
Quote:
I happen to like the feature list of the Pegasos better, and like it's smaller form factor.
The Pegasos is excellently designed hardware. If the hardware would come with AmigaOS4/PPCBoot and offers G4 CPU options at a time of proper availability, I would surely consider buying a board in addition to getting an AmigaOS-XE.
My personal preference would however go towards an AmigaOne-XE solution, as I currently prefer to have an additional PCI slot instead of a smaller form factor board.
Our needs are likely different, as well. Looking into my case.... *counts* I have 6 cards. 5 of them would be redundant or irrelevent in a Pegasos, while I could only get rid of 1 of them for the A1. So, the Pegasos is a cleaner solution for my needs. But my needs are not your needs.
Quote:
to get the flames above
I haven't seen any real flames in reply to your messages. My reactions were intended to be informative and there was just some little general criticism with regard to AmigaOne news items resulting into Pegasos propaganda threads.
That was never my intention, however. I was asking a simple question about, if what they wanted was to run their AmigaOS software on a PowerPC, why did they not look at an alternative that's available. That alternative might even run on the A1 at some point in the future (as it has run on an earlier model of the Teron board) so the question becomes even more relevent.
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but the AGP is slowed down to 1x .....
@MikeB
Whats so special about PPCBoot ?
Just a cheap replacement as they couldn't get a working OF.
So what.
Ok lets for get about the 4th PCI lots.
We then have 3 fully working just like the Pegasos. SO what.
Aone will run Aos4
Pegaos will not.
So i dont care even if Pegasos was 100X better its of no use to me with out Aos4.
Now pls get back on topic.
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To my knowledge, the first 66-MHz PCI-Slot is completely shared with AGPx2. So you can only use 3 PCI when using an AGP-Card otherwise you'll need the additional PCI for a PCI-GFX-card.
Not to promote the competition or anything, but that's not entirely true.
The AGP bus is properly a 66Mhz 64-bit PCI bus with a few extra bus modes, all pushed through a double-data-rate bus to reduce pincount. Mai's PCI1 system has the AGP modes but also retains the addressing mode. This means that, when a second device is on the bus, that the enhanced modes of AGP need to be turned off for the second PCI device to work properly. This reduces the overall speed of AGP transfers, for cards that support them to begin with.
Note, the 3Dfx series of video cards do not use AGP modes at all, being purely PCI cards (which happen to be in an AGP slot). So if you run a 3Dfx card, you won't notice a lick of difference.
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Downix Will you shutup
With turnning this thread into yet another boring
Aone V Pegasos cos you are wasteing your time.
Cos it all about the OS now for most & not the hardware.
If Aos4 was going to be on both then yes the Hardware would be the deciding factor.
Buy Aone or Pegasos.
But this not the case so this point is moot.
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>>MikeB
>>Yes you must have, UAE offers more compatibility with Amiga software than an ABOX.
I dont doubt that. I was thinking up to now, that you meant you can actually run more Amiga software
on the AOne with Linux+UAE as on the Pegasos with MorphOS, which i doubt because theres an own
UAE solution and of course the A-Box.
>>The AmigaDE is an OS, with intent being its foundation. Some think the AmigaDE is something which runs on top of intent, but actually the AmigaDE simply includes intent.
I'm aware of it, but i would even go so far to say that AmigaDE is an intent with minor modifications.
>>If you meant to say that the AmigaDE isn't currently a desktop targeted OS, then I would agree. But intent can either run hosted as a transparent compatibility layer on top of other OSes or the OS can also be used non-hosted, like is the case with Kyocera's Pocket Cosmo PDA for example
The reason that it runs hosted on other systems let me stat that its not an OS. But if intent can run unhosted now (and therefore provides necessary resources by itself) i would call it an OS.
>>First of, AmigaOS5 (64-bit) is still a long way off. And I do not think sandboxes would be implemented in the same way as currently is done with the ABOX, where the sandbox takes over the complete system.
It wont be that way in the final stage! As you most probably know, theres the so-called Q-Box in development which will be the complete new OS in the end, while the A-Box will be the Amiga-emulation environment running next to the Q-Box ontop of Quark to provide compatibility with Amiga-legacy software.
>>And for the record I am not whining... I am trying to be informative!
Sorry for being harsh! I though you wanna ride the typical "MorphOS-is-soo-alien-OS"-argumentation ..I apologize! :-)
P.S.: About the PCI-Busses: I just interpretated this from mai.com in that way : "PCI (66 MHz AGP 2X or 33/66 MHz PCI) slot on board".
Thank you Downix for the clarification!
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@ Kronos
With regard to PPCBoot, the Frieden brothers have done an excellent job. For some more info, turn here (http://www.amigart.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1343).
@ logain
But if intent can run unhosted now
This isn't something new, this has been the case all along. Only, it often makes more sense to run hosted because device manufacturers mostly already use well established OS solutions in combination with a large library of legacy software.
It wont be that way in the final stage! As you most probably know, theres the so-called Q-Box in development which will be the complete new OS in the end
I know, but I currently care just as much about the QBOX as I do about QNX or OpenBeOS. How much Amiga-like will this non-hosted environment be in the future? A question to which I haven't gotten a clear answer (yet).
Sorry for being harsh!
OK thanks. :-)
I agree with Downix on his point that different people simply have different needs. Nomatter what you decide to buy is only your business. IMO we should only try to control the high amounts of misinformation and FUD being spread. IMO the more accurate information being spread, the more likely our communities can grow stronger.
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@MikeB
So what ?
Nothing OF couldn't do, and that has been tested much better
(longer) than PPCBoot which was "ready" in November but
just a few days ago it served as an excuse for the newest
OS4-delays ...
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@ kronos
No OF, wasn't a good BootROM solution at all. I already stated this at a time when there was no alternative in sight for the AmigaOne. Sure they could have patched it, to make it function more properly, but there were simply too many design flaws and bugs.
MAI didn't hire the Frieden brothers for nothing. Sadly for AmigaOS4 development this caused some additional delays, as another much bigger and more resourceful 3rd party was unable to deliver a proper solution.
just a few days ago it served as an excuse for the newest
There have been many well founded reasons for delays. Note that many other companies suffer from countless delays as well, including Genesi or a multi-billion dollar company like Microsoft.
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@Mike
Sure the SofTex-OF was and is crap, but why should that be a
reason to replace the fully working OF on the Pegasos with a
largely untested solution ?
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@ Kronos
Sometimes it makes sense to use something different. For instance Apple made the decision to develop a new webbrowser called Safari, instead of using more tested IE or Mozilla solutions. The result is already alot more satisfying.
Designers can learn from previous design flaws and bugs found in previous solutions, so to use earlier bad experiences to their own advantage by designing a better solution.
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>MAI didn't hire the Frieden brothers for nothing.
Thanks god - hired! - , you know sometimes when
there is a very big delay for some product done by
contract work then companies sometimes search
for someone else. But I'm sure that this is a
scenario which will never happen to Hyperion!
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Thanks god - hired! - , you know sometimes when
there is a very big delay for some product done by
contract work then companies sometimes search
for someone else. But I'm sure that this is a
scenario which will never happen to Hyperion!
Your point being what ?
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Poster: Alkemyst Date: 2003/2/9 14:36:16
Downix Will you shutup
With turnning this thread into yet another boring
Aone V Pegasos cos you are wasteing your time.
Cos it all about the OS now for most & not the hardware.
If Aos4 was going to be on both then yes the Hardware would be the deciding factor.
Buy Aone or Pegasos.
But this not the case so this point is moot.
Alkemyst will you please shut up? It's about hardware until OS4 is released. Then you can go on with whatever on OS level capabilities. I suppose you could go one about Linux, but I doubt you give a rat's ass about that subject...
Dammy
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Alkemyst will you please shut up? It's about hardware until OS4 is released. Then you can go on with whatever on OS level capabilities. I suppose you could go one about Linux, but I doubt you give a rat's ass about that subject...
No Dammy as ppl who are buying an Aone are buying it cos it will run Aos4.
& telling ppl to buy a peg instead is not the answer.
You are self have even less reason to speak seeing as your not buying any of them.
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Hey Downix,
You give Baggy his money or his PPC yet? It's been over a year now. I think he feels like he's been burned a bit. It's been 'in the mail' for quite a long time. ;)
sh33p
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Hello,
"No OF, wasn't a good BootROM solution at all. I already stated this at a time when there was no alternative in sight for the AmigaOne. Sure they could have patched it, to make it function more properly, but there were simply too many design flaws and bugs."
The OpenFirmware solutions are used by many industrials around the world including SUN, IBM and of course Apple. If you have a Mac, just try one day to do: Apple + O + F at the start of your Mac.
And if you know the Pegasos OF, you'll see that the Apple OF works a lot similarly.
Why? Because they both respect the standard for OpenFirmwares.
If this is a so bad solution, why so many industrials use it?
Regards
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Just my personal opinion....
I won't care for any HW before AOS is released.
But as soon as it is, I will care very much for HW, because I would like to have the best I can afford.
But until then, this is pretty useless.
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(always blind integrist the MikeB... and always doesn't know what he's talking about... especially when he's talking about Pegasos/MorphOS)
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@ Frodo
If this is a so bad solution, why so many industrials use it?
If Windows and IE are such bad solutions, why so many industrials use them?
Just because many companies or people use something, doesn't per se mean there aren't any better possible solutions thinkable. Why do you guys even bother working on MorphOS anyway then?
@ Jedi
always blind integrist the MikeB...
You can't come up with proper arguments, so you resort to childish name calling?
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If you have a Mac, just try one day to do: Apple + O + F at the start of your Mac.
Umm... Would that be "New World Macs"? ;)
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Hello,
If Windows and IE are such bad solutions, why so many industrials use them?
Just because many companies or people use something, doesn't per se mean there aren't any better possible solutions thinkable. Why do you guys even bother working on MorphOS anyway then?
Haven't you find anything better to answer??? In that case your argument is stupid and not valid.
To take a quote of what you answered to Jedi (a bit adapted: "You can't come up with proper arguments, so you resort non valid comparisons?". What you said is just like comparing cars to fruits.
Apple and SUN are not M$, particularly Apple is well known to make good choices.
And don't be silly, the OpenFirmware is maybe one of the most flexible solution for a boot ROM/BIOS. Far more flexible than the BIOS used on the PCs and of course more flexible than proprietary ROMs like what you have in the OldWorld Macs and classic Amigas.
I'm also a Mac user and know lot of Mac users aout there. Personally I love the OpenFirmware model used on the Macs (and on the Pegasos also of course) and this is also the case of the Mac users I know. As well as people involved in alternative OS development (Linux, NetBSD...) for Macs.
This particularly helped a lot for multiple OS booting.
Regards
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Hello,
"Umm... Would that be "New World Macs"? ;)"
Yes of course these are the NewWorld Macs
Regards
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@ Frodon
In that case your argument is stupid and not valid.
My argument is valid, just because something is used by many people or companies does not prove it is a better solution.
Apple and SUN are not M$, particularly Apple is well known to make good choices.
If we take Apple's solutions as the example you will see that Windows outnumbers Apple's solution 20 to 1. Is Windows for instance 20 times better than MacOS X? I don't think so. (Or i.e. Amiga vs MSDOS during the platform's heydays)
And to think that Apple has always been so good, do you think Apple's pre-X OS solutions were that good? I do not.
Anyway, yet again some MorphOS trolls transform a Amiga thread into a childish personal mud-slinging contest.
And for what? First and foremost the BIOS ROM is just for initializing hardware. IMO you guys are pulling this way out of perspective, how will you guys react when AmigaOS4 finally hits the market, with such out of proportion reactions even about a different BIOS ROM?
This will be all from me with regard to this thread...
P.S. PPCBoot was chosen to be a better solution for the AmigaOne project, that all I meant to say, not that the Pegasos is crap just because it uses something different.
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> Anyway, yet again some MorphOS trolls transform
> a Amiga thread into a childish personal mud-
> slinging contest.
Who are trolls in this story ? Along this thread, I mainly see a MikeB who says (again) stupidities regarding Pegasos/MorphOS.
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Starting to get a bit too personal in here I think.
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Hello,
Anyway, yet again some MorphOS trolls transform a Amiga thread into a childish personal mud-slinging contest.
And for what? First and foremost the BIOS ROM is just for initializing hardware. IMO you guys are pulling this way out of perspective, how will you guys react when AmigaOS4 finally hits the market, with such out of proportion reactions even about a different BIOS ROM?
I don't know what you exactly mean but just for your information, I never criticized the AmigaOne BIOS/Firmware.
You were just saying that the OF is not a good solution, I was just explained why I think it's a good one.
I've been using OF based computers for 2 years now (Macs mainly and now the Pegasos) and never complained about the OF. In fact I love it in all my OF based computers. And I know nobody complaining about OF (I know mainly Mac users about that).
For now I didn't see you giving valid arguments. You just answered that the fact that it's used by lot of companies doesn't imply it's a good solution.
But this is very vague and general (and so doesn't always apply) and it is not a constructive argument as it didn't give any additional elements to help understanding better why you think it's not a good solution.
What I know is thanks to the OF I can multi-boot my OF computers easily, change configuration easily using a quite well extended command line interface. (It's also possible to use graphical interface to boot for example. On Macs you get a GUI pressing the Alt key at startup).
On all my previous posts here I was just answered to you about the OF boot solution, disregarding the AmigaOne solution. PPCBoot is also a good solution. But OF is not a bad one. This is the only thing I mean.
Don't interprete I'm against PPCBoot (AmigaOne choice) as in fact I'm not. I was just arguing about OF, nothing else.
Regards
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I happen to like OF for a few reasons:
1) Many cards support OF out of the box. This means you are more likely to put the off-the-shelf card into your system and have it work immediately. (Great for networking cards or for video cards)
2) OF is not limited to PowerPC's. Sun's use them, for example. This means that more high-end cards include OF support than not. If you want your card to run on a Sun SPARCStation, you gotta use OF.
3) The front end for selecting an OS is modular, allowing a great many choices for how you want your system to load up.
4) Many non-x86 OS's can use OF to load up the system without needing a bootloader (such as LILO) at all. This provides a common denominator for OS support, and thereby gains a system more support from 3rd parties.
5) OF is an industry standard. This means that there will be more support for it than a competing standard. It's a very big world out there. While rolling your own HAL might work for some, it's always better to let the big boys do the work, and you take advantage of it.
My 2 bits on the OF vs PPCBoot thing.
Note, I'm not calling PPCBoot bad, as I've never seen it in action to compare, just that I prefer OF due to it's huge amounts of support from 3rd parties with very deep pockets.
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I dont like to get drawn into flame wars but this is gretting stupid.
Someone posted some pictures of the G4 hardware. Fair enough. Some people got excited as usual, fair enough. But yet again its deteriorated.
What follows is a ridiculous and petty flame war about the number of PCI slots it has and which bios they chose to use?
For fecks sake, look at yourselves! DOES ANY OF THIS REALLY MATTER? You're fully grown adults bitching about whether one mobo is better than another simply becuase its a bit smaller/bigger/has some slots the other doesn't! In the end it doesn't really matter becuase they'll both run a different OS.
I know you're all bored stupid of waiting but this is just silly. Get outside, ride your bike, kick a ball around, throw a frisbee, argue over something real and constructive.
Yours disbelievingly...
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To the Morph-OS PPL in here:
I've followed many threads in the last few months regarding this stupid A1/MOS feud.
I was trying to learn something that will help me decide which one to buy.
I have made up my mind - based on a lot of subjects and data I found out - and decided on an A1.
But I will not go into the reasons to my decision, because clearly this is not the subject of this thread anymore.
I am disgusted by your behaviour and attitude.
Instead of arguing in a civilized manner, talking to the point, claiming your arguments and proving your case, you go into personal acusations and stupid name-calling.
And don't tell me it comes from both sides, because in all the time I've been reading these threads (like the strange announcment of Genesi guys about the April chip and all that) it's YOU who are acting like some Mad-Cows and instead of arguing, you just go into name-calling every time your arguments are proven wrong - just like you are doing here to MikeB.
Thank God I have good enough reasons to buy A1 - I sure wouldn't want to be a member of YOUR club.
I don't have an idea of who you are, or who MikeB is.
I live far-far away.
But seeing how these discussions are going, I like MikeB already (don't worry, Mike, I have agirlfriend... ;-) )