Should we really crack IBrowse 2.4???

[Hans_]

persia wrote:
Yep, Amiga doesn't have a modern language to program in, have only a few hundred users and lacks operating system support for many features.  It would be real easy for Oliver to pack up his Amiga and go program in the PC or Mac world.  Heck with the packages out there he could easily write for both.

 :-?

Most OSes see all major development happen in C & C++, we have both of those. What particular language are you referring to?

Hans

[Atheist]

Should we really crack IBrowse 2.4???

NO!


Hi futaura,

About 4 weeks ago I bought Hollywood 3, Hollywood Designer 2 and Mindspace 1. (Fluke, I know, but not kidding.)

Next week I was going to buy IBrowse 2.4 (seems contrieved, but I'm _not_ kidding). Not that I'm not happy with AWeb3.5.08 (I think it's quite good and very stable), but I want to see a PPC version 3.0 made for AOS4.0; also, heard good things. So I need a key file as well, where do I send the $cash$?

[a-pex]

Atheist wrote:
Next week I was going to buy IBrowse 2.4 (seems contrieved, but I'm _not_ kidding). Not that I'm not happy with AWeb3.5.08 (I think it's quite good and very stable), but I want to see a PPC version 3.0 made for AOS4.0; also, heard good things. So I need a key file as well, where do I send the $cash$?

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I offered to send 1500 Euros without feedback and you hope for feedback for only 1 key?  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Until now no news.  :evil: This makes me sooo angry, I think I will stop trying to get this keys.

[persia]

Objective-C, Ruby, Python.  Not to mention all the frameworks that come with XCode tools.  On a Mac I can build a web browser in half an hour, a screensaver with a rotating live image that responds to room volume?  10 Minutes.  View and edit pictures?  A simple app done in half an hour.  

Programming for the Amiga is downright painful, there are few objects to use with C++ and they don't help with the hard tasks, you have to write all the code yourself.  And then it doesn't work because it doesn't have memory protect, desn't handle interupts right or just breaks for some unknown reason.  AmigaDos is old, it made a number of choices that are just wrong.  

[kreciu]

It's not about money... it about idea... Amiga make this possible... .

Today, we have so many ways to send a money to someone without leaving a house... this is "funny" when we just can't buy  some programs.

For me it is not true that a Amiga user don't want to buy software, there is number of people who want to program for this "system".

Today STUPID game cost you about $50 and what... PEOPLE BUY this.

Hollywood 3 is for around $100 this is GOOD PRICE.

I think that people who own Amiga TODAY realize that there are ONLY them and nobody "outside" who can help. So WE need to create this community. Some people will write software, some make a hardware and some will BUY this stuff.

And please don't tell me that this is hobby... because of this there is no RESPONSIBILITY for the product... (not to full extend and not in all cases )

My opinion.

[Hans_]

persia wrote:
Objective-C, Ruby, Python.  Not to mention all the frameworks that come with XCode tools.  I can build a web browser in half an hour, a screensaver with a rotating live image that responds to room volume?  10 Minutes.  View and edit pictures?  A simple app done in half an hour.

Objective-C is only a few years younger than C++ (1986 instead of 1983) so I hardly see it as a more modern language. GCC will happily compile Objective-C for you; we're just missing a working copy of the runtime library. At least on OS4, that is. I just tried compiling an Objective-C program on OS4, and, after I downloaded the header files, it failed on linking. Libobjc is missing __objc_class_name_NSObject (or something like that). With a little work, Objective-C could be an option.

Amiga OS4 also has both Ruby and Python.
 

Programming for the Amiga is downright painful, there are few objects to use with C++ and they don't help with the hard tasks, you have to write all the code yourself.  And then it doesn't work because it doesn't have memory protect, desn't handle interupts right or just breaks for some unknown reason.  AmigaDos is old, it made a number of choices that are just wrong.  

This is true. Software libraries providing common functionality is hard to find for the Amiga. BitByBitSoftware was working on a RAD suite that would make GUI development easy, but, unfortunately it's now on hold. The AVD template is pretty useful for setting up a typical application. It gives you a basic app in a matter of minutes.

There's also Emperor, which I haven't tried in a while. It did look useful though.

There were a few C++ class collections, but AFAIK, they were never fully developed.

Hans

[Lemmink]

persia wrote:
Programming for the Amiga is downright painful, there are few objects to use with C++ and they don't help with the hard tasks, you have to write all the code yourself.

Well those obejcts did not appear over night by magic, they were programmed by others (they had to do it all by themself)
Just sticking together existing librarys and system functions isn't what usually goes by the name of programming.
Take Photoshop for example: If it wouldn't come with a whole bunch of predefined filters (created by the work of others) it would only be half as usefull thought it would still be the same program.

[persia]

An analogy  to programming with the Amiga versus the Mac is a cookbook that begins a cake recipe with "start with pond scum and lightning and evolve a chicken" in the Amiga version whilst the Mac version reads "take two eggs."  I write code when I need it, Objective C mainly, Ruby and Python as I learn them.  Any when I write a routine it's there in the list for me to use it.

I program in my spare time, in an evenings' work I have something to show for it.  The apps are visually stunning.  Is it programming?, well all programming that's not 1s and zeros is an abstraction...




 :rtfm:

[sdyates]

How long has the iBrowse team been unavailable for comment. Seems odd that they would not want to make any residual income.

[Hans_]

persia wrote:
An analogy  to programming with the Amiga versus the Mac is a cookbook that begins a cake recipe with "start with pond scum and lightning and evolve a chicken" in the Amiga version whilst the Mac version reads "take two eggs."  I write code when I need it, Objective C mainly, Ruby and Python as I learn them.  Any when I write a routine it's there in the list for me to use it.

That's a bit extreme don't you think? Starting with pond scum is more akin to having to write your own drivers. We have drivers; we have libraries for many tasks; what's missing are the RAD tools and middleware. Out of interest, have you ever tried Emperor? Or how about MUI builder? They're nowhere near as advanced as what's available for the Mac, but they're certainly no pond scum.

I've already told you that OS4 has Ruby and Python. Objective-C is just missing a working runtime library, which probably wouldn't take too much effort to fix. There's more coming too. On AROS, Rob Norris is working on Traveller, and IIRC, he's planning on turning the Webkit portion into a shared library. If he does, creating your own web-browser will become much easier.

I program in my spare time, in an evenings' work I have something to show for it.  The apps are visually stunning.  Is it programming?, well all programming that's not 1s and zeros is an abstraction...

There's nothing wrong with using RAD tools. However, instead of ranting about how awful coding for the Amiga is, why not help improve the situation? Someone has to write the middleware, foundation classes and RAD tools. Otherwise I guess that Amiga coding just isn't for you.

Hans

[TheMagicM]

weirdami & boot wb:

Is that the official word from AO moderation on this subject?

Unless english is your second language and you didnt comprehend what I typed, my post is very clear as to whom I am speaking for.  I'm sure if you re-read it a second or possibly fifth time it will become more evident to you.

-Alex

[Krusher]

Who cares. If developers don't take money to licence someone, give it a rest. It's their decision. Cracking it is just demotivating any developer. Relax people, why the sudden need for a full fledged browser on the Amiga platform? Just use Firefox for now. I grew up with terminal emulation software on the Amiga, never touched any webbrowser until WinUAE came around.

[Minuous]

Last time I looked Firefox was not yet ported. Running it through PC-Task or similar would be very slow. Maybe you meant AWeb?

>And then it doesn't work because it doesn't have memory protect, desn't handle interupts right or just breaks for some unknown reason. AmigaDos is old

If it's coded correctly it won't need memory protection, the task will not be trying to write to memory it hasn't allocated. As for "d

• esn't handle inter[r]upts right", they work fine, sounds like you are a lamer. AmigaDOS is the same age as Windows (c. 1985). I don't see any need for "toy languages" like Ruby and Python.

>There's also Emperor, which I haven't tried in a while. It did look useful though.

Don't forget ReActor...

[Hans_]

Minuous wrote:

>There's also Emperor, which I haven't tried in a while. It did look useful though.

Don't forget ReActor...

Ah, yes. It's a real shame that ReActor wasn't developed further.

Hans

[Atheist]

a-pex wrote:

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I offered to send 1500 Euros without feedback and you hope for feedback for only 1 key?  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Heh. Well, I was just chiming in that there are others as well that want it. It's just coincidental that I was trying to acquire it at the same time as the news broke that it isn't readily available.

Until now no news.  :evil: This makes me sooo angry, I think I will stop trying to get this keys.

I do hope (please) futaura is able to contact Stephan, as all of these people will spend their money on something else and there are PLENTY of other things they could buy, things not even Amiga related, like 25 beer at the local pub.

I'm willing to wait, no, actually I'll buy some other AOS4.0 SW, and will be buying IBrowse later on in that case. A few months from now.

But you have till next Friday for my purchase this time around.


Amiga has many problems and weird ones as well, and this is among the weirdest.

[Terse]

Krusher wrote:
Who cares. If developers don't take money to licence someone, give it a rest. It's their decision. Cracking it is just demotivating any developer. Relax people, why the sudden need for a full fledged browser on the Amiga platform? Just use Firefox for now. I grew up with terminal emulation software on the Amiga, never touched any webbrowser until WinUAE came around.

You assume that everyone has the same browsing needs t(or lack thereof) as you.
Even so, the real question of cracking is moot.  Many (most?) Amiga enthusiasts may not even be on these forums and therefore will find iBrowse by navigating to the homepage for iBrowse, read the "latest update" from Jan '07 and rightly assume the product is abandoned.  Leaving a page up, posting "lastest news" that is over a year old and then never coming back is the norm for abandoned Amiga projects.  In another year or two the page will dissapear alltogether.