3 more NatAmi's - Yippee!

[giZmo350]

I'll definetly be buying one as it seems there's no sight of any new Sam460EX availability and the USD to Swiss Franc exchange rate for getting a new OS4.X machine from Relec is SKY HIGH! Kudos to the Natami Team!!!

[Piru]

Gunner has been playing/tuning with the 060 card and says it can keep up with 600mhz PPC Amiga in mem copy.
 
MEMORY READ 145 MB/sec (Optimised Code)
MEMORY READ 114 MB/sec (Average Code)
MEMORY WRITE 155 MB/sec
MEMORY COPY 140 MB/sec
http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=1¬e=39600&order=&x=3
 
He also says he isnt finished tuning it yet which is cool, I wonder how the N050 FPGA and the DDR2 memory will stack up to these results ;-)

Memory interface of this "600MHz powerpc amiga" is the partcularly weak spot in it. Beating it is hardly worth cheering about.

Comparing the results against 7447 with 166MHz bus and proper chipset would have given a slightly different picture:

write: 774 MB/s
read: 375MB/s

(Actual figures from Mac mini G4 1.5GHz, unoptimized C code)

And if we go to anything computational the G4 crushes classic, and even natami, regardless of if it runs real 060 or some FPGA 68k emulation. Some figures here: http://via.i-networx.de/bench_en.html

[dreamcast270mhz]

What would be awesome is if we could make an FPGA board that replaces all the custom chips by way of piggybacking in a classic Amiga, then from there.

[commodorejohn]

What would be awesome is if we could make an FPGA board that replaces all the custom chips by way of piggybacking in a classic Amiga, then from there.

Not really. Anything not on the board itself would still be limited to the original bus speed, which is exactly the same constraint as existing classic Amiga upgrades. The only way to remove that is to do what NatAmi's doing and create a whole new design with a faster bus.

[DCAmiga]

Memory interface of this "600MHz powerpc amiga" is the partcularly weak spot in it. Beating it is hardly worth cheering about.
 
Comparing the results against 7447 with 166MHz bus and proper chipset would have given a slightly different picture:
 
write: 774 MB/s
read: 375MB/s
 
(Actual figures from Mac mini G4 1.5GHz, unoptimized C code)
 
And if we go to anything computational the G4 crushes classic, and even natami, regardless of if it runs real 060 or some FPGA 68k emulation. Some figures here: http://via.i-networx.de/bench_en.html

Yes Piru MOS in a Mac is impressive, I am sure Gunner was refering to Pegasos with OS 4.x if you read the whole natami thread.
 
But dont you think those figures are impressive concidering how old the 060 processor is ?? I think it shows how mature the 060 architecture is, and it is only running @ 120mhz. Gunner also says he is aiming for 180 MB/s.
I am sure the N050 + DDR2 will score alot higher, I guess it would also depend on the memory controller Natami MX has.
I do know it is using a 64bit bus for the DDR2 memory, Oh well time will tell.

[Franko]

I think Piru feels threatened by the NatAmi, simple reason being that when it becomes available we will truly have a "new" Amiga that can run at speeds unheard of before (even with a PPC board), ease of use for adding things like HD's DVD writers etc... but most of all the threat comes from the fact that it's 68K (so to speak) and will run 3.x at speed we could only ever dream about before...

Piru, you shouldn't worry that this will stop people using MorphOS or that you'll lose custom because of it, as I reckon most MorphOS users are too mean anyway to shell out the cash that a NatAmi will cost, so you and the hundred or so MorphOS users can go on with your system while the rest of us real Amigans enjoy the dream machine we have waited so long for...

[Piru]

Yes Piru MOS in a Mac is impressive, I am sure Gunner was refering to Pegasos with OS 4.x if you read the whole natami thread.

And specifically G3 which had abysmal performance. Peg2 with G4 is a lot faster. I wonder why he didn't compare it against that?

But dont you think those figures are impressive concidering how old the 060 processor is ?

They're not. They're to be expected with proper bus management. Atari accelerators have had this for ages for instance.

[Piru]

I think

You can think what you want.

Piru feels threatened by the NatAmi

No I don't.

simple reason being that when it becomes available we will truly have a "new" Amiga that can run at speeds unheard of before (even with a PPC board), ease of use for adding things like HD's DVD writers etc... but most of all the threat comes from the fact that it's 68K (so to speak) and will run 3.x at speed we could only ever dream about before...

No, it won't beat even moderate PPC systems, and it isn't even trying to do so. Not that I would worry even if it did. NatAmi is targeting a different audience (it may well overlap with MorphOS user base of course). Running 68k ultra fast isn't anything spectacularly interesting. It has been done before with UAE and the like.

As for superaga, I don't feel it will make much impact. Amiga devs are few and far between already, and going even more niche with expensive hardware won't help a bit.

Rest of your nonsense isn't worth commenting.

[Heiroglyph]

It didn't take long to start the platform wars.

This thread started off so nicely, but here we go again.

[Lord Aga]

True.
 
Please do not infest this thread. If someone does not like NatAmi, then just skip everything related to it. There are many people, including me, who respect the work of NatAmi team and look forward to buying it.
 
Great work NatAmi team! Just keep going at it guys!

[Heiroglyph]

It was a valid comment that the comparison was designed to look good, I'm all for reality checking.

But still, comparing to currently available 68K Amiga memory speed (its actual direct competitor) it's pretty damn awesome.

[Cammy]

Natami is going to be awesome! MorphOS is awesome! Classic Amigas with new expansions and OS3.x are awesome. Aros is awesome. X1000 running OS4.2 is going to be awesome. FPGA Arcade is awesome. This has got to be the best time to be an Amiga user in over a decade.

[Franko]

@ Piru

First you chime in with trying to put a damper on the NatAmi with your rubbish about it won't be as fast as X,Y,Z... :rolleyes:

Then you respond to my post by saying "Rest of your nonsense isn't worth commenting."... :rolleyes:

Now after saying that you go back and edit your post to make more spurious claims and trying to put the NatAmi down once again... :rolleyes:

Well I've got news for you Mr MiseryGuts... no-one cares what you think about the Natami or the rubbish claims you make against it or your wee made up so called "facts & figures"...

We get it... you don't think much about the NatAmi and we don't care what you think, so kindly toddle off elsewhere and leave the NatAmi to those of us who still enjoy using "Real" Amigas and "Real" Amiga OS's like Workbench 3.x and can appreciate all the hard work and effort that has gone into this amazing piece of kit and the fact that it will be the closest thing ever to being a REAL Amiga that has been seen since the A1200... ta very glad...

[alexh]

Piru is the only one with a sensible head on his shoulders.

NatAmi is going to be fun (for those who can afford it) at least as long as the devs remain interested.

It's not going to replace your modern desktop x64 PC. I don't even think it will replace your Amiga in the short term as compatibility will be it's Achilles heel for the short term. Power benchmarks against anything other than accelerated classic Amiga's are pretty much irrelevant.

At the same time I am glad the devs are enjoying making the RTL code, (although I do worry about the closed source approach they are taking vs MiniMig) Maybe one day their work will find it's way into an ultra low cost "Amiga Joystick" type application which a generation of parents and their kids might enjoy (re)discovering.

Natami will be the closest thing ever to being a REAL Amiga that has been seen since the A1200... ta very glad...

Erm, if you're discounting UAE then MiniMig is the closest thing to a Real Amiga there has been since an A1200. Because it is erm... REAL

NatAmi's closed source nature means their FPGA core is still very close to being vapourware until their product lands in the hands of users. I have respect for Thomas Hirsch though, he's shown he's a true engineer. (Unlike one or two of the NatAmi crowd )

[Tripitaka]

Natami is going to be awesome! MorphOS is awesome! Classic Amigas with new expansions and OS3.x are awesome. Aros is awesome. X1000 running OS4.2 is going to be awesome. FPGA Arcade is awesome. This has got to be the best time to be an Amiga user in over a decade.

A great reality check from Cammy, I couldn't agree more. Why some people get upset about the stuff they are not interested in is beyond me. I think we all have our favorite flavors. I'm very much looking forward to Natami and X1000 in particular, I may even buy a cheap ass mac  to run MorphOS (I would love to see MorphOS on SAM and X1000 too but I doubt I will, sadly).

BTW you missed out SAM, UAE and Minimig

[Franko]

@ alexh

Gotta disagree with you strongly on almost all you said there (especially about Piru ) but all kidding aside I think you are wrong, the NatAmi is basically promising 100% backwards compatibility,  I (and I don't think anyone else is either) looking for it to replace any kind of PC (what give you that idea !!!) I am quite simply looking forward to buying new hardware that's an Amiga not a PC, is backward compatible and runs faster than any expanded Amiga ever could, not to mention all the other goodies it will bring...

It's got nothing to do with folk developing new software for it (though I intend to do so myself) the simple fact that most old software from DPaint to Pagestream will run a lot faster on it is what I'm looking forward to...

So to me comparing the NatAmi to other processors and the speeds they run at is pointless (as well as stupid to be honest). I think anyone who's looking forward to buying the NatAmi already knows it's capabilities and are very happy with what it offers and are going to be quite happy buying this rather than spending a fortune on ebay for a nearly 20 year old 060 that you can't guarantee will work or last long...

Kinda think all you "doubters" are deliberately missing the point in the NatAmi...