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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Gaming => Topic started by: motorollin on March 30, 2008, 02:21:23 PM
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Had some friends over last night and we fancied playing some games. After whining at us for ages to set up the Wii, I compromised by firing up my CD32. It's amazing how Pinball Fantasies and Speedball 2 can still keep a crowd amused for ages! :-)
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moto
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Wii is a party machine i would prefer to play CD32 any day.
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We're thinking of getting Mario Party. But TBH, we're bored of the Wii. Last night was the first time we played it in months. Once the novelty of the controllers wears off, it gets a bit dull.
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moto
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To say the truth, Nintendo, for me is crap (about games). They have games only for children, well most of them. I prefer CD32 at all costs. We are talking about quality games, that it's hard to find nowadays.
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motorollin wrote:
We're thinking of getting Mario Party. But TBH, we're bored of the Wii. Last night was the first time we played it in months. Once the novelty of the controllers wears off, it gets a bit dull.
I hadnt played mine since july so I traded it for a Amiga A3K :D
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@phantom
Are you saying that nintendo games lack quality?. :-?
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@ _ThEcRoW
In front of Amiga games and even PlayStation, yes they have childish games, which most of them lacks quality. Fow how long you will play a Nintendo game?
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Well I really like my DS, and there are loads of games for it that I play fairly often. I also play SNES games on my GP2X. Overall I quite like Nintendo games. But with the Wii, it's a bit too much of an effort :lol:
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moto
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It's amazing how Pinball Fantasies and Speedball 2 can still keep a crowd amused for ages! :-)
I had never thought that Speedball 2 could be amusing.
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Dare I say it? Yes, I dare... :-). I kind of like the Wii, but that's probably more down to the fact that I just want a few hours of fun without the complexitiy of modern-day PC games. Now that we've got a second Wii-mote with the machine, our twin-boys (almost 11 y/o) seem to enjoy it even more as they can now challange eachother in a one-on-one fight.
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I got the Wii around the same time as World of Warcraft.
If it were not for WoW, I would be playing with my Wii contantly. :)
That said, you can't complain about the quality of Nintendo-made games.
Now 3rd party games on Wii are mostly crap. Don't blame Nintendo, blame the developers who don't put in the time to learn to use it's unique gpu.
Factor 5 being one of the exceptions to the rule. Capcom being another (Resident Evil 4 FTW).
Factor 5 is Wii-making the Rogue Squadron series from the Gamecube for the Wii. Maybe they'll put Turrican in there as an easter egg. Also they are rumored to be developing a Kid Icarus game, reviving it from the NES to the Wii.
If you want a challenging Wii game, get Metroid Prime 3.
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I had never thought that Speedball 2 could be amusing.
Are you nuts??? :crazy: :crazy: :-D
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motorollin wrote:
But TBH, we're bored of the Wii. Last night was the first time we played it in months. Once the novelty of the controllers wears off, it gets a bit dull.
Thanks moto,
I thought that would be the case with the Wii. The likes of Ian Wright and Michael Owen pretending to enjoy it in the adverts didn't fool me for a moment. Now I'm absolutely positive that I'll never get one :lol:
I'm looking out for a CD32 though 8-)
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@A4000_Mad
Don't get me wrong, the Wii is a great console and it's loads of fun. But you do have to be prepared to make the effort to move when you play it :lol: Wii Tennis doesn't work very well when you're all sitting on the sofa...
The Wii is great for short bursts IMO, but I very quickly get bored until the next time. On the other hand, I could play on my CD32 for hours ;-)
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moto
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Phantom wrote:
I had never thought that Speedball 2 could be amusing.
Are you nuts??? :crazy: :crazy: :-D
Certainly, but it takes one to know one. I found this game ugly in all respects, so I didn't make the effort to take an interest in it.
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I have to say that the simplicity of the Nintendo games is highly attractive and addictive. It amazes me that Nintendo makes a fortune out of regurgitating a lot of the same games or game play, but it does. Not to say it does not come out with some newer stuff once in a while, but you have to ask why the same old crap is so popular with kids and adults alike.
I think it is quite simple, and illustrated in a conversation I had with a philosophy major a while back. He says that when you reach a certain age, you begin rejecting new achievements and advancements, and that applies to music, games, etc. My retort was that new things are often good and often bad, but what makes old things so good is not necessarily the nostalgia, but that there are plenty of old things which are timeless; think about how some games, no matter how they age, are still fun and challenging to play.
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Phantom wrote:
I prefer CD32 at all costs.
You'd have to be a masochist to feel like that. Or just like telling stories to generate controversy ;-) Or you dont like games and gaming at all, you just like nostalgia?
I can sort of understand, I am an Amiga Fanboy, but I am also a gamer who owns and plays all platforms, and I say the best thing about the CD32 was its medium's capacity (CD, 700Mbytes) which can now be exploited with WHDLoad!
The CD32 was $hite. Most of the games were $hite, floppy disk games just ported over. There are one or two gems amongst the fodder but as a whole it was a complete and utter failure! Every mainstream games console which came after the CD32 was more fun. Simply because they had the time and money invested in them and lots of developers creating exciting new games that embraced the technology that just wasn't there for the CD32 :-(
Phantom wrote:
To say the truth, Nintendo, for me is crap (about games). They have games only for children, well most of them.
The Wii is a great console, games have amazing innovative designs the ideas generated in the controllers will be with us for years.
If you say the games are only for children, that is because you have never actually looked at any games and are just jumping to a media-hyped stereotypical view of Nintendo without any sampling of Adult games at all. That's kind poor from you.
Medal of Honor: Heroes 2 is an amazing game. The gameplay offered via the WiiZapper sets it apart from any other FPS game on any console. It merges games like House of the Dead, Time Crisis, Virtua Cop with a great Medal of Honor FPS.
Super Metroid Prime 3, brilliant puzzles in a great 3D platformer which is also an FPS. Unique gameplay centered around the wireless motion sensing controllers.
Smarty-Pants combines Trivial pursuit with the Wiimote controllers. Great fun when you've got friends round and you want a more cerebral game.
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock, amazing idea first seen on the PS2, brilliant on any platform. Hours of fun.
Some of the games for kids are great fun for adults too:
Wii Sports, Super Paper Mario, Super Mario Kart, Super Mario Galaxy, Legend of Zelda Twilight pricess, Zak and Wiki, .
They all offer better entertainment, longevity and fun never seen any CD32 title.
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motorollin wrote:
The Wii is great for short bursts IMO, but I very quickly get bored until the next time. On the other hand, I could play on my CD32 for hours ;-)
Sounds to me like you probably only have one game for your wii, Wii sports. Get out there and buy (or download ;-)) some more games.
Start playing Super Metroid Prime 3 or Medal of Honor: Heroes 2 or Bully: Scholarship Edition and you wont be doing short bursts.
Zak and Wiki: Quest for Barbaros treasure is great too.. very much in the style of a lucas arts adventure such as Monkey Island.
If you liked Speedball II, then how come you're not playing Mario Strikers Charged Football?
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motorollin wrote:
@A4000_Mad
Don't get me wrong, the Wii is a great console and it's loads of fun. But you do have to be prepared to make the effort to move when you play it :lol: Wii Tennis doesn't work very well when you're all sitting on the sofa...
The Wii is great for short bursts IMO, but I very quickly get bored until the next time. On the other hand, I could play on my CD32 for hours ;-)
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moto
I can play it from the couch just fine. I can beat anyone standing up that way. Few players actually force me to get up off the couch because of their skill...
So when Wii gets CD32 games on the Virtual Console, would it then be better than the CD32? It's already got C64 games... :)
What would be more interesting is that now that the Wii is hacked, if it did get CD32 games, we essentially could modify it to inject a 3.9 Workbench boot-up...and we'd have UAE on Wii for peanuts...
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Oh, the "Nintendo only has kids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wii_games) games" line again. :roll:
This was a crock when it was first said, and it's a crock now. I smell the tall poppy syndrome. I think Xbox and PS fanboys are a little disgruntled at the Wii's success.
I think people just like generating controversy by saying stuff like 'I'd take CD32 any day over Wii'. I mean come on, are you serious? Like alexh, I'm an Amiga fanboy too, but the CD32 seriously has nothing on the Wii. The CD32 was a mediocre console even when it was new. I still love the little beast, because it's Amiga, but it seriously lacks. Mostly because Commodore went bust just after it's release. Had they been around to support it, it may have grown into a great console, with a great range of games.
As for Wii being a console where you have to move alot, I think that's the whole point. :-D
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lou_dias wrote:
So when Wii gets CD32 games on the Virtual Console, would it then be better than the CD32?
I doubt that will happen, at least not for good CD32 titles. The data files are too large.
lou_dias wrote:
What would be more interesting is that now that the Wii is hacked, if it did get CD32 games, we essentially could modify it to inject a 3.9 Workbench boot-up...and we'd have UAE on Wii for peanuts...
Should be possible.. just don't upgrade your Wii firmware as they have already released a fix for the homebrew flaw.
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alexh wrote:
just don't upgrade your Wii firmware as they have already released a fix for the homebrew flaw.
It forces you to update before it will let you play Mario Kart, though I don't know whether the hack will get around that.
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moto
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I agree with AlexH comments on the matter.
The CD32 is a great little item for an Amiga fanboy, I had the FMV module that made it a bit cooler but It's a footnote in gaming history.
At the time Commodore couldn't even get placment in Toys R US, Or any US reatailers at ToyFair, the writting was on the wall that they were bleeding bad.
A case to too little too late. Now if A CD32 came in to replace the shelf space commodore once had with the Commdore64 in US Retailers, maybe we'd all be playing Commodore Blu-Ray 256 bit mega system.
But even back then in the US, there was a concerted effort to make the world a single operating system world, and games were either Sega or NINTENDO. Marketing folk cleverly refered to the Amiga as outdated, and even though it was ahead of the competition for so long. Commodore rode that train for way too long.
Had a CD32 been released instead of CDTV or a year later it could have been a contender.
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Tbh I prefer the ordinary A500 over the CD32 in terms of addictive games. Also besides that the Dreamcast rocks like hell with games like Ooga Booga and Powerstone. A friend of mine has a Wii, but asides tennis it's not being played on much. Playstation 2 is ok with Gran Turismo and Monkey Ball initially we played the latter on the GameCube a hell of a lot, and since gamecube games can be played on the wii..
Still have to check out Mario Kart Double Dash.
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I'm with AlexH on this one. I love playing old games on my A2000, and have been having a ton of fun with it. But I have a PS3 and a Wii, and I wouldn't give either of them up to keep the old games...
The Wii is a fantastic console, with some great games. In my house I've got a SNES, a Genesis (Megadrive to those not in the states), a Dreamcast, a Wii, and a PS3. The Wii is the only one my girlfriend ever plays. I'd say of the 'this-gen' consoles, my time is split about 50/50 between the PS3 and the Wii.
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I agree that of the "next gen" consoles, the Wii is the most innovative. And I wasn't trying to say that the CD32 is "better" than the Wii. I was simply pointing out that with the games I had, the novelty of the controllers wore off and I got bored of it, and that after all these years the CD32 can still entertain a party for the evening!
Now that I've got Mario Kart Wii, the CD32 might not be switched on for a while... ;-)
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moto
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Honestly, If you want to "RELIVE" the CD32 experience on a real game system, go to any given URBAN video game store, In NY we have the neighborhoods where one store sell, cell phones, sneakers, wigs, and video games. Buy a second had XBOX $69-$89 and read up on how to do all the crazy mods.
Make sure you have the Samsung drive so you can read all those CD32 disks. Install UAEX for XBOX and you have a CD32 with Component output to a modern TV. Get one of those mutli game CD32 disks and you're set. You can also get USB converters and use a PC USB mouse and keyboard.
Try using modern hardware like that on an Amiga, a USB card is over $100.
I used a setup like this and it's really great. Still trying to build the "perfect A1200" that can do both CD32 and Amiga disk games. But that's becuase at one point I was working on the Mini-MIG mas prodction run and I was into seeing what ran on a real Amiga Vs. Mini-MIG. Also wanted a real fuctional Amiga to show investors.
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Crom00 wrote:
Make sure you have the Samsung drive so you can read all those CD32 disks. Install UAEX for XBOX and you have a CD32 with Component output to a modern TV. Get one of those mutli game CD32 disks and you're set. You can also get USB converters and use a PC USB mouse and keyboard.
Interesting idea. I have a chipped XBOX which runs UAEX but I wouldn't have thought about using CD32 discs in it! However, my XBOX is built in to my arcade machine so the CD32 will remain as the lounge Amiga :afro:
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
alexh wrote:
just don't upgrade your Wii firmware as they have already released a fix for the homebrew flaw.
It forces you to update before it will let you play Mario Kart, though I don't know whether the hack will get around that.
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moto
If you can run backups, there are tools that can remove the update from the discs then run the backup without the update...
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But even back then in the US, there was a concerted effort to make the world a single operating system world, and games were either Sega or NINTENDO. Marketing folk cleverly refered to the Amiga as outdated, and even though it was ahead of the competition for so long. Commodore rode that train for way too long.
That is because Commodore sucked at marketing. Commodore should have just copied Sega's advertising style in the early 1990's of just saying how pathetic their competition is and talking like the competition is so laughably bad they are no threat.
For example:
This Ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckfOjt-z7Yc) focuses on Genesis being faster and cheaper then the SNES, Commodore could have done the same comparing the Amiga to a IBM compat (no point mentioning the Mac or AtariST as the point would be taking potential customers away from the IBM compats).
Commodore could have chewed the IBM compat in TV commercials even more then Sega chewed out the SNES as IBM didn't care about games thus there would be no major advertising campaign to defend the IBM compatible as a gaming system, thus the only ads gamers would see regarding the IBM clones is they suck as a gaming system. IBM wouldn't object as IBM positioned the IBM PC as a business PC, Commodore could have even have spun IBM marketing to their advantage, going see even IBM agrees with us that IBM PCs suck as a gaming system.
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Eh? I'm not sure that copying Sega marketing would have been a good idea. Genesis/Mega Drive did okay initially in the U.S., when it's only competitors were the NES and the NEC TurboGrafx-16 (admittedly, it mopped the floor with the TurboGrafx), but once the SNES came out, Nintendo kicked Sega's rear in U.S. sales.
Europe is a different story, I guess, with the Mega Drive doing much better (beating?) Nintendo in the 16-bit era.
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I don't know I guess I'm just getting old but I really enjoy playing games on my amigas and the only game that I've come across on my ps3 so far anyway that I really like alot is motorstorm. I'm not crazy about games that have tons of buttons to memorize.
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JC wrote:
I'm not crazy about games that have tons of buttons to memorize.
AGREED! That's one of the great things about retro games, and also about the Wii :-)
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moto
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abbub wrote:
Eh? I'm not sure that copying Sega marketing would have been a good idea. Genesis/Mega Drive did okay initially in the U.S., when it's only competitors were the NES and the NEC TurboGrafx-16 (admittedly, it mopped the floor with the TurboGrafx), but once the SNES came out, Nintendo kicked Sega's rear in U.S. sales.
Europe is a different story, I guess, with the Mega Drive doing much better (beating?) Nintendo in the 16-bit era.
Actually in the US the Sega Genesis dominated the market till 1994 in terms of market share. Sega's agressive advertising for the most part worked.
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Im lucky to own a pristine one in a good box. Good machine but I would kill for an SX32 PRO.
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I always feel Nintendo were overrated.
Sega produced the true gamers console, remind me again how the DC failed? It has some of the greatest games of all time.
However I did buy a wii, mainly because it looked fun (which is what gaming is supposed to be) and after well and truly having ym ass handed to me on mario kart online by my gf I can confirm it is the most fun I have had on a console since the 16 but era.
I do have a 360 as well, because whatever defences people put up, the wii does have a different target audience. This means no hope of getting games like gta4 (although perhaps a later re-release like bully)
As for the CD32 I bought one years ago its a nice machine to own, but I rarely play it, mainly because it didn't really do anything that my a1200 couldn't. Although I looved the James Pond intro.
Out of interest, I can't be bothered to research this morning, could the cd32 have competed with saturn/ps1 or was it a halfway house between them and md/snes.
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The CD32 may have been "32Bit" but it could in no way compete with the PS1 or Saturn IMHO. I think Mode 7 on the SNES would have even given the CD32 a run for it's money.
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swoslover wrote:
However I did buy a wii, mainly because it looked fun (which is what gaming is supposed to be) and after well and truly having ym ass handed to me on mario kart online by my gf I can confirm it is the most fun I have had on a console since the 16 but era.
I agree. Mario Kart Wii is absolutely brilliant! Playing with the wheel really adds a new dimension to the game, and the variety in the tracks means it never gets boring.
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moto
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You can't compare the CD32 with Playstation or Saturn, since these came out 2 years after the CD32. Still, the CD32 was underpowered, in comparison to the Atari Jaguar (or too little difference in comparison to the Super Nintendo). It's only strong aspect was the CD player.
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Xamiche wrote:
The CD32 may have been "32Bit" but it could in no way compete with the PS1 or Saturn IMHO. I think Mode 7 on the SNES would have even given the CD32 a run for it's money.
Copper based effects can duplicate Mode 7 effects e.g. Brian The Lion. CD32’s 020 processor has been crippled with UMA(unified memory architecture). CBM should have slightly over clocked the 020, included 881 math co-processor and some fast ram.
http://cd32.amiga32.com/reviews/brianthelion.htm
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Hammer wrote:
Xamiche wrote:
The CD32 may have been "32Bit" but it could in no way compete with the PS1 or Saturn IMHO. I think Mode 7 on the SNES would have even given the CD32 a run for it's money.
Copper based effects can duplicate Mode 7 effects e.g. Brian The Lion. CD32’s 020 processor has been crippled with UMA(unified memory architecture). CBM should have slightly over clocked the 020, included 881 math co-processor and some fast ram.
http://cd32.amiga32.com/reviews/brianthelion.htm (http://cd32.amiga32.com/reviews/brianthelion.htm)
Yup. Not bad that a 16-bit console can keep up with a 32-bit one. :lol:
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Xamiche wrote:
Hammer wrote:
Xamiche wrote:
The CD32 may have been "32Bit" but it could in no way compete with the PS1 or Saturn IMHO. I think Mode 7 on the SNES would have even given the CD32 a run for it's money.
Copper based effects can duplicate Mode 7 effects e.g. Brian The Lion. CD32’s 020 processor has been crippled with UMA(unified memory architecture). CBM should have slightly over clocked the 020, included 881 math co-processor and some fast ram.
http://cd32.amiga32.com/reviews/brianthelion.htm (http://cd32.amiga32.com/reviews/brianthelion.htm)
Yup. Not bad that a 16-bit console can keep up with a 32-bit one. :lol:
020 in CD32 is crippled anyway.
At that time, CD32 should have delivered a low end 486 class performance.
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Psy wrote:
But even back then in the US, there was a concerted effort to make the world a single operating system world, and games were either Sega or NINTENDO. Marketing folk cleverly refered to the Amiga as outdated, and even though it was ahead of the competition for so long. Commodore rode that train for way too long.
That is because Commodore sucked at marketing. Commodore should have just copied Sega's advertising style in the early 1990's of just saying how pathetic their competition is and talking like the competition is so laughably bad they are no threat.
For example:
This Ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckfOjt-z7Yc) focuses on Genesis being faster and cheaper then the SNES, Commodore could have done the same comparing the Amiga to a IBM compat (no point mentioning the Mac or AtariST as the point would be taking potential customers away from the IBM compats).
Commodore could have chewed the IBM compat in TV commercials even more then Sega chewed out the SNES as IBM didn't care about games thus there would be no major advertising campaign to defend the IBM compatible as a gaming system, thus the only ads gamers would see regarding the IBM clones is they suck as a gaming system. IBM wouldn't object as IBM positioned the IBM PC as a business PC, Commodore could have even have spun IBM marketing to their advantage, going see even IBM agrees with us that IBM PCs suck as a gaming system.
But in the 1992 and 1993, the X86 PCs is ascending as a gaming platform i.e. falling 486 based PC prices vs 040 based prices. The PC has advantage of native chunky graphic architecture for Doom type games.
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Xamiche wrote:
The CD32 may have been "32Bit" but it could in no way compete with the PS1 or Saturn IMHO. I think Mode 7 on the SNES would have even given the CD32 a run for it's money.
CD32 doesn’t have a proper 3D GPU.
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GF owns a Wii..I have a PS2, SNES, N64 and CD32..All of them are setup and ready to use..if i want kiddy console gaming go for the SNES..if i want a little 3D N64 or PS2..The CD32..feels more arcade..which is was i like about it.
People might shout at me for saying this..But my understanding is that the CD32 is considered a failed attempt by commodore at a games console..But my thoughts on this are. If the machine can still provide entertainment while bashing heads against SNES, N64, PS2, Wii titles..then it's not doing bad for it's age..not bad at all..
Now all we need are some people to band together and make games for the ruddy thing!
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That is because Commodore sucked at marketing. Commodore should have just copied Sega's advertising style in the early 1990's of just saying how pathetic their competition is and talking like the competition is so laughably bad they are no threat.
You mean like this (http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/adverts/cd32ad.jpg)? or like (maybe Commodores greatest marketing moment ever) this (http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/adverts/cd32_bb.jpg)?
Personally, I usually hate marketing that stoops to putting down the competition but I just love that second one. Especially the carefully chosen location of the billboard.
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Hammer wrote:
Xamiche wrote:
The CD32 may have been "32Bit" but it could in no way compete with the PS1 or Saturn IMHO. I think Mode 7 on the SNES would have even given the CD32 a run for it's money.
CD32 doesn’t have a proper 3D GPU.
Yes, we know.
[/quote]
You mean like this (http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/adverts/cd32ad.jpg)? or like (maybe Commodores greatest marketing moment ever) this (http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/adverts/cd32_bb.jpg)?
Personally, I usually hate marketing that stoops to putting down the competition but I just love that second one. Especially the carefully chosen location of the billboard.[/quote]
:lol:
I think Commodores timing was all wrong, and they spread themselves too thin. They wanted to be a Big Box Computer, gaming computer and console company all rolled into one.
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Hammer wrote:
But in the 1992 and 1993, the X86 PCs is ascending as a gaming platform i.e. falling 486 based PC prices vs 040 based prices. The PC has advantage of native chunky graphic architecture for Doom type games.
Intellivision had more tame ads showing Intellivision games next to Atari 2600, Commodore could have done such ads till 1990 when Sega started its aggressive ads against Nintendo and simply copy Sega's more agressive style.
If we look at Sega's success, Sega went from less then 1% of the console market to over 50% in only 3 years. If Amiga had that kind of rapid growth in market share in the early 90's then by 1993 the Amiga would be far too big to not get Doom ported to it. Again remeber IBM probably would not have launched a counter advertising campaign to defend the X86 as a gaming platform, as IBM was already driven out of the PC market, also at the time Microsoft marketing would have no matched to Sega style marketing.
Lets not forget gaming on the X86 till 1998 was a pain in the add because of Dos being overly complex for the average gamer and Windows 95 sucking all around. Commodore could have done ads showing how long it takes a game to work on Dos vs the Amiga.
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Psy wrote:
Intellivision had more tame ads showing Intellivision games next to Atari 2600, Commodore could have done such ads till 1990 when Sega started its aggressive ads against Nintendo and simply copy Sega's more agressive style.
I honestly don't think it would have worked. Commodore did try aggressive 'anti' Sega type ads but it was too little too late. The mistakes from their past had just caught up with them.
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Lozrus wrote:
You mean like this (http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/adverts/cd32ad.jpg)? or like (maybe Commodores greatest marketing moment ever) this (http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/adverts/cd32_bb.jpg)?
Personally, I usually hate marketing that stoops to putting down the competition but I just love that second one. Especially the carefully chosen location of the billboard.
The second is really cute as Sega of Europe slogan was "To be this good takes AGES" (AGES being SEGA spelled backwards) meaning Commodore took Sega of Europe's slogan and used it to poke fun at Sega.
As for marketing that stoops to putting down the competition, while those ads put down Sega as they are ads for the CD32, Amiga ads would be putting down the X86 that would different as the X86 is no where as cool as Sega :)
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Xamiche wrote:
I honestly don't think it would have worked. Commodore did try aggressive 'anti' Sega type ads but it was too little too late. The mistakes from their past had just caught up with them.
Those were CD32 ads and Commodore couldn't even manufacture enough CD32s.
Anyway Sega was no threat to Commodore's main market as Sega left the home computer market even before the Commodore 128 launched. It was the Dos systems that Commodore should have been targeting with agressive ads.
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It's funny that CD32's still wind up on EBAY every week From China (where else) and at premium prices! So much for a failed console... meanwhiles used gamecubes, and dreamcasts go for like $30 bucks.
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Crom00 wrote:
It's funny that CD32's still wind up on EBAY every week From China (where else) and at premium prices! So much for a failed console... meanwhiles used gamecubes, and dreamcasts go for like $30 bucks.
Which shows exactly how idiosyncratic we Amiga fanboys can be.
As anyone who collects stamps will tell you, the rarer the item, the higher the price. Generally speaking. The relative cheapness of the Sega and Nintendo consoles is a testament to how successful they were. But if you were to put two consoles in front of me; a CD32 and a Gamecube, then tell me to choose I'd take the CD32 any day of the week. Not because I think it's better, but because I can pick up a dozen Nintendo consoles at any weekend flea market for under a hundred bucks. And the CD32 are just so damn cute. :lol:
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I prefer Amiga CD32 over Nintendo Wii because the games are not casual cute, but really hardcore. Been a Nintendo fan a long time, but I'm more into Amiga gaming (recent convert) now since I got tired of the Wii and the DS. The CD32 has this cool punk-rock attitude to their games which is certainly better than the Wii. Wii is just too cutesy.
Amiga Inc should do a DTV-like Amiga CD32 plug-in with 40 games. That would rock.
Favorite Amiga Games: Agony, Shadow of the Beast, Superfrog, and Lemmings.
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Psy wrote:
Hammer wrote:
But in the 1992 and 1993, the X86 PCs is ascending as a gaming platform i.e. falling 486 based PC prices vs 040 based prices. The PC has advantage of native chunky graphic architecture for Doom type games.
Intellivision had more tame ads showing Intellivision games next to Atari 2600, Commodore could have done such ads till 1990 when Sega started its aggressive ads against Nintendo and simply copy Sega's more agressive style.
If we look at Sega's success, Sega went from less then 1% of the console market to over 50% in only 3 years. If Amiga had that kind of rapid growth in market share in the early 90's then by 1993 the Amiga would be far too big to not get Doom ported to it. Again remeber IBM probably would not have launched a counter advertising campaign to defend the X86 as a gaming platform, as IBM was already driven out of the PC market, also at the time Microsoft marketing would have no matched to Sega style marketing.
Why would the X86 PC world care about IBM? Remember, IBM was against the PC clone market. IBM lost the PC market ever since the first 386 PC was launched (includes IBM's failed MCA vs Intel's VLB/PCI).
The defence of PC market is done by Intel (i.e. "Intel Inside" initiatives**), AMD (i.e. extended X86 to 64bits, X86 cloner), VIA(X86 cloner), S3(VIA), ATI(AMD), NVIDIA/3DFX and various other X86 centric IHVs.
"Intel Inside" initiatives was started sometime in 1990.
"Intel Inside" initiatives also herald the time that Intel Corp’s reference designs (includes Intel's VLB/PCI) leads X86 PC clone army, thus completely dethrones IBM in the X86 PC hardware design leadership. Also, Intel is active in complier technologies and optimisations.
CBM/MOS is not going to fight IBM, it's going to fight semi-conductor monster Intel Corp.
Lets not forget gaming on the X86 till 1998 was a pain in the add because of Dos being overly complex for the average gamer and Windows 95 sucking all around.
Not a big issue with DOS Protected Mode Interface (DPMI) games e.g. DOOM and Descent doesn't use EMS or XMS memory.
I was runing WinDoom soon after Win95 was released. MotoRacer (1997, DirectX 3) was runing on my S3 Virge 3D card just fine. I was running Win95 OSR2 (second Win95 release) pior to Win98 (1998).
WinDoom was one of the demos during development preview of Windows Chicago (aka Windows 95).
After S3 Virge 3D, I soon switch to nVIDIA Riva 128(1997,DirectX 5) and TNT(1998, DirectX 6).
I disagree with "Lets not forget gaming on the X86 till 1998 was a pain".
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Hammer wrote:
I disagree with "Lets not forget gaming on the X86 till 1998 was a pain".
It sucked before the coming of DirectX/OpenGL. I've always been a PC user, but all the fussing around with conflicting IRQ's of soundcards and things like that. I got myself my first Amiga500 back in 1998 or so, and had to get used to it's user friendlyness (not having to boot in workbench to play games; "are all my disks broken? All are NDOS" :lol: )
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motorollin wrote:
We're thinking of getting Mario Party. But TBH, we're bored of the Wii. Last night was the first time we played it in months. Once the novelty of the controllers wears off, it gets a bit dull.
--
moto
I would disagree. It depends on the game. I have some awesome games for the Wii. My newborn baby is the only thing keeping me off it.
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I've always been a PC user, but all the fussing around with conflicting IRQ's of soundcards and things like that. I got myself my first Amiga500 back in 1998 or so, and had to get used to it's user friendlyness
Most people (including most journalists - even Amiga specialists) since the 80s thought that bad architecture and operating system were the necessary drawbacks of any computer that was not a simple game console. The reason for this is that these features were associated with the compatible PC computers which were in turn associated with both professional use and big-sized (even empty) desktop or tower boxes, both of which are strongly linked with a vulgar masculine obsession with power and "size". As this obsession was unconscious, it may be enough to explain the monopoly of the worst computers and the fall of the Amiga.
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Hammer wrote:
Why would the X86 PC world care about IBM? Remember, IBM was against the PC clone market. IBM lost the PC market ever since the first 386 PC was launched (includes IBM's failed MCA vs Intel's VLB/PCI).
The defence of PC market is done by Intel (i.e. "Intel Inside" initiatives**), AMD (i.e. extended X86 to 64bits, X86 cloner), VIA(X86 cloner), S3(VIA), ATI(AMD), NVIDIA/3DFX and various other X86 centric IHVs.
"Intel Inside" initiatives was started sometime in 1990.
"Intel Inside" initiatives also herald the time that Intel Corp’s reference designs (includes Intel's VLB/PCI) leads X86 PC clone army, thus completely dethrones IBM in the X86 PC hardware design leadership. Also, Intel is active in complier technologies and optimisations.
CBM/MOS is not going to fight IBM, it's going to fight semi-conductor monster Intel Corp.
And how well could Intel counter Commodore slamming the X86 like Sega was doing with the SNES?
Also if Commodore had Amiga kiosks like Sega did (and later Nintendo when they saw what Sega was doing) including roaming kiosks that during summers are deployed at major events.
If done right youth would be exposed to far more Amiga marketing then X86 marketing thus kids would beg their parents to not get a lame X86 but a cool Amiga like the one they say on TV, print ads and they played on Amiga kiosks.
Not a big issue with DOS Protected Mode Interface (DPMI) games e.g. DOOM and Descent doesn't use EMS or XMS memory.
I was runing WinDoom soon after Win95 was released. MotoRacer (1997, DirectX 3) was runing on my S3 Virge 3D card just fine. I was running Win95 OSR2 (second Win95 release) pior to Win98 (1998).
WinDoom was one of the demos during development preview of Windows Chicago (aka Windows 95).
After S3 Virge 3D, I soon switch to nVIDIA Riva 128(1997,DirectX 5) and TNT(1998, DirectX 6).
I disagree with "Lets not forget gaming on the X86 till 1998 was a pain".
Compared to the Amiga, the X86 was a pain in the ass.
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And how well could Intel counter Commodore slamming the X86 like Sega was doing with the SNES?
Also if Commodore had Amiga kiosks like Sega did (and later Nintendo when they saw what Sega was doing) including roaming kiosks that during summers are deployed at major events.
If done right youth would be exposed to far more Amiga marketing then X86 marketing thus kids would beg their parents to not get a lame X86 but a cool Amiga like the one they say on TV, print ads and they played on Amiga kiosks.
I think that nothing could have countered the x86 PCs as long as their attraction was driven by as primary and unconscious impulses as the one I describe in my last post. In this respect, linking the Amiga name with a console, whatever the kind of advertising, could only finish the Amiga. This phenomenon should have been overcome by intelligence and information. But, more or less wittingly, most journalists chose to embrace the public's primary views instead of guiding them. And that was it.
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arkpandora wrote:
I think that nothing could have countered the x86 PCs as long as their attraction was driven by as primary and unconscious impulses as the one I describe in my last post. In this respect, linking the Amiga name with a console, whatever the kind of advertising, could only finish the Amiga. This phenomenon should have been overcome by intelligence and information. Instead most journalists chose to embrace the public's primary views instead of guiding them. And that was it.
Ahh but Sega like marketing would only be to grab the attention of the consumer and get the system on store shelfs of major chains. In North America even the Sega Master System was far easier to get then a Amiga as you could get the Sega Master System at Toys 'R Us, Sears, ect while only a few retailers carried the Amiga. It wouldn't take much to show the Amiga could also do serious work. With having Amiga kiosks run of hard drives Commodore could have it run though both games and productivity software when no one is using it and have a menu selection to so you can sample some software.
If Amiga had a dominant presence at the big retail chains then when the new computer users asked a Sears sales person about a home computer they would point them to the Amiga as they would have a Amiga kiosk that Commodore would have had a deal with Sears to have up and running, which would make the sales person job much easier so the sale person would try and push the customers towards the Amiga simply because it would be the path of least of resistance for them.
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Sorry, I forgot to reply.
As popularity of the consoles and "portable" computers (such as the A600 or A1200) was the commercial enemy of the high-end computers of the same brand, I think that promoting the high-end Amiga computers would have been the only way to help the Amiga as a computer, since you couldn't find any PC or Mac in those chains. However, in such a human context, I think that promoting them along with a game console could have been enough to cancel any positive result, as even numerous video games journalists have ignored the high-end Amiga models just because there were those low-end models.
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And how well could Intel counter Commodore slamming the X86 like Sega was doing with the SNES?
Intel has sizable marketing dollars to spend. Secondly, 1993 built PCs can run the game called Doom.
Compared to the Amiga, the X86 was a pain in the ass.
Depends on the Amiga machine i.e. running legacy A500 games on A1200/020 i.e. running degrader or retrokick. On both sides, dealing with legacy software can be an issue.
In 1993, I have an A3000/030@25Mhz which can't run some A500 games.
At 1993 time period, there was a hole in CBM’s A1200/20 and A4000/040 line up i.e. mid-range price PC. A3000’s IGP was not competitive against a similar priced X86 PC. A4000/030 was release later but it was too late.
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arkpandora wrote:
I've always been a PC user, but all the fussing around with conflicting IRQ's of soundcards and things like that. I got myself my first Amiga500 back in 1998 or so, and had to get used to it's user friendlyness
Most people (including most journalists - even Amiga specialists) since the 80s thought that bad architecture and operating system were the necessary drawbacks of any computer that was not a simple game console. The reason for this is that these features were associated with the compatible PC computers which were in turn associated with both professional use and big-sized (even empty) desktop or tower boxes, both of which are strongly linked with a vulgar masculine obsession with power and "size". As this obsession was unconscious, it may be enough to explain the monopoly of the worst computers and the fall of the Amiga.
X86 PC clone distribution model with a single standard was considered to be superior to 68K PC’s fragmented model.
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X86 PC clone distribution model with a single standard was considered to be superior to 68K PC’s fragmented model.
I don't understand you : the Amiga was a single standard as well, and the Mac - which unlike the Amiga has survived - was not different from the Amiga on that score. On the contrary, x86 PC clones had an almost infinite number of models since they were not bound to only one brand.
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LoadWB wrote:
I have to say that the simplicity of the Nintendo games is highly attractive and addictive. It amazes me that Nintendo makes a fortune out of regurgitating a lot of the same games or game play, but it does. Not to say it does not come out with some newer stuff once in a while, but you have to ask why the same old crap is so popular with kids and adults alike.
I think it is quite simple, and illustrated in a conversation I had with a philosophy major a while back. He says that when you reach a certain age, you begin rejecting new achievements and advancements, and that applies to music, games, etc. My retort was that new things are often good and often bad, but what makes old things so good is not necessarily the nostalgia, but that there are plenty of old things which are timeless; think about how some games, no matter how they age, are still fun and challenging to play.
Indeed, JOUST is still an excellent ST/Amiga game :-D
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Xamiche wrote:
Oh, the "Nintendo only has kids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wii_games) games" line again. :roll:
This was a crock when it was first said, and it's a crock now. I smell the tall poppy syndrome. I think Xbox and PS fanboys are a little disgruntled at the Wii's success.
I think people just like generating controversy by saying stuff like 'I'd take CD32 any day over Wii'. I mean come on, are you serious? Like alexh, I'm an Amiga fanboy too, but the CD32 seriously has nothing on the Wii. The CD32 was a mediocre console even when it was new. I still love the little beast, because it's Amiga, but it seriously lacks. Mostly because Commodore went bust just after it's release. Had they been around to support it, it may have grown into a great console, with a great range of games.
As for Wii being a console where you have to move alot, I think that's the whole point. :-D
Well, i have owned both the wii, xbox 360 and the ps3. I ended up selling the Wii and getting a PS3 simply because 99% of the games were horrible. The good titles that are non party games can be counted on a single hand. Even the PS3 has more decent titles. The cd32 had few games, but more good titles than the Wii imo. I know of alot of people who bought wii to only let it collect dust after playing with it for a month or two. Ontop of that the graphics on most games dont look better than the gamecube and sometimes even not even as good as a average ps2 game. The only interesting thing about it is the wiimote..
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Hiddenevil wrote:
The CD32..feels more arcade..which is was i like about it.
Now all we need are some people to band together and make games for the ruddy thing!
You may be pleased to know that such a band exists! We're called Underground Arcade, and we're dedicated to bringing out quality games for classic Amigas, including the CD32! Among the games we're working on are a horizontal shoot'em'up and a platform adventure game, but there are many more planned. And we're looking for more members to join our band, so if anyone's interested, PM me!
For more info, here's our blog - http://undergroundarcade.blogspot.com/
As for the Wii vs the CD32, I like them both. The CD32 certainly has more games available to it at the moment (the full CD32 & CDTV library, plus nearly all A500 and some A1200 games through WHDLoad+CD-R), but the Wii has the Virtual Console, which has a good range of games to choose from, as well as the native Wii and Gamecube games that run on it, plus it's only the beginning, there are bound to be some decent games coming out for it. I've played SM Galaxy, Zelda, Wii Sports, Wii Play and Transformers so far, none of them really grabbed me except for Mario's beautiful graphics and music, but I still prefer Super Mario World over it just for the tighter, more responsive gameplay.
One thing I really like about the Wii is its power consumption. It's certainly the greenest and cheapest to run of all the modern consoles, plus the initial cost is less than the 360 and PS3. Check this out..
X-Box 360 uses 185W during gameplay, Playstation 3 uses 193W, and the Wii uses 17W.
So, here's the advantages I see for each console, CD32 and Wii:
CD32
* Expandable enough to be used as a full computer.
* Massive range of good oldschool games available if you can burn your own CD-Rs.
* Anyone can develop their own games easily for them using the huge selection of Amiga software available for use both on the machine itself, or on any Amiga.
* Low power consumption.
Wii
* Lots of controller options with the Wiimote, nunchuck, classic controller, or Gamecube controllers.
* Large range of classic console games available through the Virtual Console, as well as modern games using 3D graphics and Wiimotes.
* Low power consumption.
* Some people actually get fit using it!!!
I can't say if one is better than the other, but they're both great consoles. I guess it all depends on which machine has the more games that you like on it. Still, there's just something special about the Amiga that makes me feel more creative, so I'd rather make new games for the old CD32 than for the Wii, even though it's capable of more.
Psy, I totally agree, if Commodore had put Amiga Kiosks in shops for people to try out, it would have boosted sales massively. I also think if Commodore had used Amiga technology (but with a ROM instead of floppy disk) as the basis of an arcade machine (like SNK's Neo Geo) and contracted some decent developers to make a range of arcade games, then offered "arcade perfect ports ONLY for Amiga" it would have sparked more interest in the Amiga as a games platform.
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Well, i have owned both the wii, xbox 360 and the ps3. I ended up selling the Wii and getting a PS3 simply because 99% of the games were horrible. The good titles that are non party games can be counted on a single hand. Even the PS3 has more decent titles. The cd32 had few games, but more good titles than the Wii imo. I know of alot of people who bought wii to only let it collect dust after playing with it for a month or two. Ontop of that the graphics on most games dont look better than the gamecube and sometimes even not even as good as a average ps2 game. The only interesting thing about it is the wiimote..
I know people who have done the same but every one of them has just one software title: Wii sports.
If you play the Wii on 480p 16:9 the graphics are fine: to suggest that the PS2 has better graphics than Wii, when the PS2 doesn't even have better graphics than a Gamecube, is just plain false.
The current PS3 software range has widely been criticised as the worst of all current gen consoles.
The only interesting thing is the Wii remote? But the games are rubbish? doesn't make sense: whats interesting about the remote if the remote lets you interact with the game but the games are rubbish? the plastic?, the buttons?
Nintendo is the the best game software developer in the world in terms of innovation and gameplay, bar none.
Yes Nintendo titles make extensive use of Nintendo mascots, but the game play in games such as Mario 64, Mario Sunshine , Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart (any version), Mario Tennis, Mario Smash Football, Metroid, Zelda Fzero is the best in that genre, on any platform. I bought a PS2 to play ProEvo, and nothing else.
Even if all you could buy was Nintendo software its still worth it to get a Wii, especially that you can play Gamecube games (highly under-achieving console) that look great in 16:9 480p, some N64 SNES NES greats as well. Its the exclusives that matter, not the generic 3rd Party stuff.
And its about FUN, and all Nintendo games I have played, have it in spades. How can anyone even vaguely suggest the CD32 software library is even in the same class?
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At 1993 time period, there was a hole in CBM’s A1200/20 and A4000/040 line up i.e. mid-range price PC. A3000’s IGP was not competitive against a similar priced X86 PC. A4000/030 was release later but it was too late.
Its interesting because it parallels what Apple did when Jobs arrived. At the time, Apple was making many different models, and even licensing the OS to third parties to build Mac clones. Jobs cancelled the clones, and reduced the Apple lineup to the Imac with the colored monitors for home use, and the Blue and White G3 tower for professional use. This is like the A1200 and the A4000 respectively. It worked for Apple but not Commodore. Why? I don't think enough was done to promote the A4000, the A1200 as stock was pretty useless and had to be upgraded, the initial purchase price gap b/w A1200 and A4000 was too great for too little gain and I think the Amiga users at the time were different to the Apple users: there were a lot of advanced home users who wanted the power of an A4000 but didn't have the money.