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AuthorTopic: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.  (Read 8298 times)

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Offline Kronos

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Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #105 on: August 23, 2003, 11:39:34 AM »
and furtherone:

Do you really think someone would just refund you on a allready opened
SW-package without putting up a fight ?

Thats why only what is visible from the outside form a valid contract.
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline DaveP

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #106 on: August 23, 2003, 11:58:25 AM »
@Kronos

As a consumer you have a right to return the product in most civilised countries if you do not agree with Ts and Cs found inside the package.

The contract is not between you and the vendor ( which is just a reseller )  - unless they stipulate extra Ts and Cs or negotiate a rebundling deal - but with you and the first boundary of sale.

You may not like licenses, nor how they are first put on display to the consumer, but that does not invalidate Bill McEwens statements on the matter nor does the existense of AmigaForever, Draco and the "Install-Emulation" icon.

Hate figure. :lol:
 

Offline Kronos

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Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #107 on: August 23, 2003, 12:10:01 PM »
@Dave

Don't know about your country, but here there simple are some limlitations
of what clauses can be put into a contract.
Anything that goes beyond it is not valid, but it DOES NOT automaticly invalid the
whole contract !!

Putting clauses in after the purchase (and thats what those EULA-requesters do)
does go beyound it.

Limiting a SW to be used only on ceratin HW can also go beyound it.

But I think the point is rather mood as H&P are the ones (exclusivly) distributing OS3.9
not Ainc, and I haven't seen Mr Haage complain (Iand don't think he ever will).

We can also be sure that AInc will never actually fight H&P over the rather foggie
question who owns what of AOS (as been seen with Amithlon).
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline DaveP

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #108 on: August 23, 2003, 12:12:50 PM »
Kronos

IIRC H+P distributed under license from Amiga Inc, therefore it is Amiga Incs responsibility to enforce contravensions of the license ( unless the contract stipulates otherwise ).

Regards

Dave.
Hate figure. :lol:
 

Offline Kronos

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Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #109 on: August 23, 2003, 12:17:12 PM »
Thats why I said it is foggy.

Ands who say that the 3.9s bought by BB aren't actually AmigaOSXL-packages
directly bought at H&P (those don't have the clause in the EULA).
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline bhoggett

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #110 on: August 23, 2003, 12:25:14 PM »
@Kronos

Quote
But I think the point is rather mood as H&P are the ones (exclusivly) distributing OS3.9 not Ainc, and I haven't seen Mr Haage complain (Iand don't think he ever will).


H&P are the publishers. This does not automatically make the IP theirs, nor does it mean that the EULA is theirs. Furthermore, as H&P never paid Amiga Inc any money at all for OS 3.9, it's questionable whether their "exclusive distribution" contract is still valid. Amiga Inc certainly don't think so, and are happy to grant distribution rights to anyone else.

Quote
We can also be sure that AInc will never actually fight H&P over the rather foggie question who owns what of AOS (as been seen with Amithlon).

That's because of the money involved in the case being far more than any damages which could be extracted from H&P. Even the winner of such a case would be losing a great deal of money, and we all know Amiga Inc can't afford it.  Lack of legal action does not mean H&P own the IP, nor does it mean thay have been acting legally or correctly.  Unfortunately, in today's world the price of justice can sometimes be prohibitive.

I think you'll also find that EULAs are legally enforceable in Germany, even if you can't read them before you buy the product. Only those clauses which are illegal would  be exempt.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline bhoggett

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #111 on: August 23, 2003, 12:27:47 PM »
@Kronos

Quote
Ands who say that the 3.9s bought by BB aren't actually AmigaOSXL-packages

Those are even more illegal, as they contain unlicensed copies of the Kickstart images.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline DaveP

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #112 on: August 23, 2003, 12:33:42 PM »
I would hope MOS users that also helped boycott H+P over the Amithlon issue and the roms would make their feelings known to Bill Buck if this were the case.
Hate figure. :lol:
 

Offline bbrv

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #113 on: August 23, 2003, 01:27:16 PM »
Good discussion!

Thank you.

R&B  :-)

Offline mdwh2

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #114 on: August 23, 2003, 03:49:23 PM »
Quote

DaveP wrote:
You don't use the software if you cannot agree to the Ts and Cs under which it is sold. Send it back. Simple.
But it wasn't sold under those Ts and Cs.
 

Offline pixie

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #115 on: August 23, 2003, 03:57:33 PM »
One thing I forguet though Kronos, was AmigaOS3.9 implicitly need the AmigaOS3.1 roms to run, wether MacOSX don't*! ;-b

Damn! You're even more pirate then those pirates who run MacOSX!! :-o By this I assume that you understand Marktime logic that is!!

What it really means!? I really don't know, I've only now started this intensive course on Marktime rethoric fallowed by english-portuguese so that I can fully grasp his thought. As far as I understood, this could well mean that you have two wooden legs instead of one! :-) Once you're on Marktime world you cannot escape! :-o :-o Woooo

P.S- Before someone starts to beat me up, and by this I do mean you Kronos :-P, I do know you had an Amiga before and therefore already acquired the Amiga Roms (how could you have AmigaOS3.9 HD running in any other way, I only wish for you sake that you have as I do your Amiga sleeping while you use AOS3.9, or this very bad guys named Amiga Inc. will get on you, you've been warned), its only this PegPong thingie that's getting on me! :-D


pixie- writing from a paradise called Portugal
 

Offline pixie

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #116 on: August 23, 2003, 03:58:51 PM »
I don't understand all this nit picking about AmigaOS EULA especially when introduced by Redrumloa which ought to know better about this kind of Amiga related issues, particularly when he's one of the moderators at Amiga.org, one of the most important sites related to Amiga.

You can say you are not pro-Genesi biased and I may even agree to a certain degree, but you're certaintly are pro-anti-Amiga.inc biased! I guess everyone needs have to have their own agenda, whether it may be pro-Genesi, pro-Amiga pro-anti-Amiga, pro-anti-Genesi, and so on...

The trend nowadays seems to be that everything Amiga do or says must be evil, so everyone  is in their legitim right to attack them whenever possible, doesn't matter how trivial is what been said, as long as it implies Amiga Inc and something said against Genesi, and the mudsluming begins, everyone starts shouting without thinking a bit if there's substance at all for making the first shoot.

And if Bill McEwen says someone had arrested his family, which I don't know or care a bit  if it's true or not, there's always some avanger that when failing to prove if he indeed has or hasn't really been arrested by this guy, does see if he is indeed marryed, if he indeed has a soon, and so on... but worst, this guys are proud to know the 'truth', no matter what truth is*!! Pe lea se... Maybe the next thing these people will ask to Rich is when they heard Bill got a new dog, urge Rich to get the licensees for them to see wether Bill has lied or not..

Well, if it this was some other user who got no implicit duties (or rights) of moderation, but Redrumloa!? But then he have the right to apply some censors.. ahem, moderation on flames stirred up by some others, odd isn't it!?

I mostly respect Redrumloa if not for the well balanced post he usually do.. There's nothing wrong with being biased you know, if doing consistently, if you have the arguments to defend your cause but there's some limits implicits by your moderation status that you shoul be more aware, at least on my own opinion, if anyone care to give a f*ck about them, that is..

*As you should have guessed I am talking about Rich Woods, and no matter how valuable his work on behalf as been as far as the courts papers go and matters at some degree, he is stretching the line too far, but it's not only his fault, if his fault at all it's this compelling urge to know everything Amiga related by some guys (not gays :-D), most who doesn't give a toss about Amiga is nowadays, who still in the past, who still think Amiga owns them anything, oddly enough there's few if any at all that had bought a coupon, a Amiga Party Pack...


pixie- writing from a paradise called Portugal
 

Offline bhoggett

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #117 on: August 23, 2003, 04:13:21 PM »
@pixie

What is your problem?

The thread discusses the legal issues surrounding the OS 3.5/3.9 EULA. It's a valid and reasonable topic for discussion, as so far it has stayed on-topic for the most part.

Now you seem to be suggesting that redrumloa is out of order for challenging a statement by Bill McEwen?  Wha' ?

If we were all to just take everyone's word at face value and not question anything we'd be a very sad and sorry bunch, and a pretty stupid one too.

Of course if anyone was stalking McEwen's family they were way out of order, whatever their motivation. This goes for everyone's family, but what does any of that have to do with this thread?

It seems you get upset every time someone questions or criticises Amiga Inc, and you automatically assume they do so out of bias. Why is that?
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline pixie

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #118 on: August 23, 2003, 04:20:25 PM »
Reasoning should come from the higher levels, and it seems it doesn't... IMO (so most don't get offended)

Edited: Is it so really important, is it so hard to realize!? Most people talk about emulators as UAE was the same thing as AmigaForever, start to do a bunch of twists on words as if Amiga which is owner of it would do anything against Amiga4ever or draco, which they have licensed, so they could have their logic straight...


pixie- writing from a paradise called Portugal
 

Offline pixie

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #119 on: August 23, 2003, 04:24:45 PM »
So you say I'm defending Amiga Inc... whatever, the next thing you or other people say is that I'm BAF or troll or anything that suit their needs. As if it was a bad thing per se...(for itself)


pixie- writing from a paradise called Portugal