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Author Topic: A3000T - memory issue?  (Read 5288 times)

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Offline Pat the Cat

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« on: November 07, 2021, 01:38:19 AM »
The location shown (08003778) is neither in the chip RAM (00000-1FFFFF) or the Zip RAM (07000000-07FFFFFF).

08000000 and up is the RAM on the CPU card.

https://amigacoding.com/index.php?title=Amiga_memory_map

Zip RAM is  physically fairly robust, it's really fragile to static electricity (use an earthing strap connected to your wrist and and earth point).

I've blown up multiple Zips with just one fleeting touch on a pin while not earthed.

One way to apply pulling press without crushing the chip is a sheet or rubber or masking tape and short nose pliers.

Thumb and forefinger and rubber gloves if you got a lot of finger pressure.

But I think it's the simm RAM on the Cyberstorm Mark 3.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2021, 02:19:34 AM by Pat the Cat »
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Offline Pat the Cat

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2021, 05:11:59 PM »
Could be Psu, could also be reset circuitry having issue on a cold start.

That Caps Lock light sticking on is odd, usually controlled by the keyboard controller inside the keyboard.

I think you might have more than one problem here. I would try powering on without the keyboard to see how far it gets.

EDIT: Using DeOxit on CPU and RAM connectors might help. The Cyberstorm (040 version) hasn't got much in the way of power smoothing capacitors, very much depends on everything else to behave.

« Last Edit: November 07, 2021, 05:16:16 PM by Pat the Cat »
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

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Offline Pat the Cat

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2021, 12:10:16 AM »

How can I test the reset circuitry? The issue seems to be when boot from cold, but once booted its mostly ok (maybe the odd recoverable alert though).

Weed

This is not straightforward on an a3000T. Ideally means removing the motherboard. And tracing the signal with a logic probe. Working from a schematic.

On powerup, the motherboard reset signals waits for a shortwhile, then applies a momentary low pulse into the Rst line. This gets fed around the board to different components.

Chips with power on them start in an "undefined" state, Rst clears them to an initial zero point. The keyboard circuitry for reset feeds ino the same system.

I think you have more than one problem here, so probably a good idea to just reset on power up, then look for the memory fault.

The think with cleaning connectors is - you have to clean both of them, and oxidation builds up on BOTH sides.

Board cleaner does not remove oxidation from pin contacts and solder points. You have 30 years of copper "rust".

OK, this may not fix your memory problem, but it will help to keep a machine reliable.
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

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Offline Pat the Cat

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2021, 07:33:30 AM »

EDIT: I ran AmigaMARK - Memory Benchmark and got this:


OK, that definitely points the finger at a chip RAM problem.

If you can get it to do that consistently, at least the first 512kb is OK.

It could be one or more of the 74245's looking after the address lines rather than a defective ZIP.

A little odd that that AmiTestKit didn't find a problem.

Another thought... is the CPU card suppoted by risers or is it just plugged into the slot?  Might be a big part of your issues.
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

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Offline Pat the Cat

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2021, 07:52:55 PM »
Could be but unlikely - rarely do you get an intermittent fault.

Agnus does control the RAMOE (Ram Output Enable) which feeds to all the Chip RAM components through. Goes to U203, a 16L8D, and comes out on pin 16.

However, if it wasn't working at all, you should get a green screen rather than a recoverable alert,

Likewise the data pins, you have a display, therefore all the data pins are OK.

Which is why I expect it's the 74245s that select the right chip combination from the address. It seems the low end of chip RAM is OK, but there can be issues with the upper part of chip RAM.

https://www.amigawiki.org/dnl/schematics/A3000T.pdf

Has the Psu ever been serviced, recapped or replaced? That could be the root cause.
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

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Offline Pat the Cat

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2021, 01:09:32 AM »
OK, that was definitely in the motherboard fast ZIP memory (07000000-07FFFFFF). Looks like a bad ZIP or maybe just loose.

What confuses me is only 1MB of chip RAM. Do you have half your chip RAM sockets empty?

"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

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Offline Pat the Cat

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2021, 02:33:56 AM »
Might be you got a chip RAM ZIP mixed up with a fast RAM ZIP?

The 2 are different sizes (256K X 4 for chip, 512K x 4 for fast).

Checking the tick line is a good plan, as is a recap on the Psu.

The timing jumper is necessary if you replace the Psu entirely, only big box Amiga Psus have a tick output.
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

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Offline Pat the Cat

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2021, 03:12:03 PM »
Yeah, those ZIPs are a PITA.

It's tricky working them into an A3000D, putting them in sideways on a Tower... welll...

I could be wrong, I thought you had to have a little bit of motherboard fast RAM on these to keep the onboard scsi happy or similar.

I can httpsee why people fit simm adapters in the ZIP sockets. Much lehttpshttps hassle.

You might have a damaged or maybe corroded ZIP socket rather than a chip,
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
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Offline Pat the Cat

"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 
The following users thanked this post: Tumbleweed

Offline Pat the Cat

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2021, 07:53:35 PM »


After a lot of testing various combinations of CHIP ram 1MB, 2MB CPU CARD no FAST Mem Zips etc and testing with ATK I have it booting happily into WB with no on-board FAST mem but with 2MB CHIP and 128MB on the CSMKII.

Will let it run overnight with ATK as before and fingers crossed no errors flagging when I look at it in the morning.  :D

Fingers crossed it will be OK.


I also tracked down some ZIPs for the FAST mem on eBay - almost the same as the original ones but slightly slower 80ns vs 60ns. The CHIP zips are 70ns. Does it make a difference that the CHIP and FAST operate at different speeds?

Weed.

For best performance, you want the fast ZIPs to all be 60ns or faster static column. I don't advise mixing different speeds and different types (static column OR fast page).

Chip RAM has to be 80ns or faster.

However, chip and fast can be different speeds, bearing the above in mind.
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

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Offline Pat the Cat

Re: A3000T - memory issue?
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2021, 08:21:06 PM »
Oh, if you want to check RAMsey settings for motherboard fast RAM;-

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=1026344

Best done with no fast ZIPs installed.
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
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