Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology

[kamelito]

From the front page, "This is the AmigaOS Documentation Wiki. Here we collect all information for users and developers of AmigaOS version 4.0 and beyond."

If you want material prior to version 4 of AmigaOS then you will likely need to talk to Cloanto. Cloanto has been buying up all the rights to previous versions of AmigaOS and Michael is very interested in preservation. Michael has been pushing the preservation idea at every single Amiga 30th event this year so I'm surprised you guys missed that.

That is exactly what I wrote then Olsen and Broadblues says otherwise and then clarified.
I'm not complaining, I just think that Classics programmers need proper docs too as for Cloanto for now I just saw them as money makers around Emulation. Preserving stuff is one thing sharing them another.

IIRC the 3rd edition do not cover 3.x stuff a Classic wiki could be updated this way.
Kamelito

[matthey]

That is exactly what I wrote then Olsen and Broadblues says otherwise and then clarified.
I'm not complaining, I just think that Classics programmers need proper docs too as for Cloanto for now I just saw them as money makers around Emulation. Preserving stuff is one thing sharing them another.

IIRC the 3rd edition do not cover 3.x stuff a Classic wiki could be updated this way.
Kamelito

Does A-EON want to encourage Amiga development or not? Does A-EON want to make Amiga development easier? If so, then IMO:

1) Development documentation should be freely distributable (retaining copyrights is expected).

2) AmigaOS 68k should be further developed and the API brought closer to AmigaOS 4 to make Amiga development easier. The 68k is a bigger market and growing with new FPGA hardware. I wouldn't be surprised if Amiga capable FPGA hardware is outselling Amiga PPC hardware yet this larger potential market is practically ignored even as PPC is dying.

[trekiej]

This is good to hear. Good luck.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

you look in the mirror? :lol:

Every day.  And by some miracle it hasn't broken yet!  :laughing:

[Niding]

Does A-EON want to encourage Amiga development or not? Does A-EON want to make Amiga development easier? If so, then IMO:

1) Development documentation should be freely distributable (retaining copyrights is expected).

2) AmigaOS 68k should be further developed and the API brought closer to AmigaOS 4 to make Amiga development easier. The 68k is a bigger market and growing with new FPGA hardware. I wouldn't be surprised if Amiga capable FPGA hardware is outselling Amiga PPC hardware yet this larger potential market is practically ignored even as PPC is dying.

While I do agree with you regarding futher development of AOS3.x, I wonder how they should find the resources to do so. Espesially since they have problems keeping up desired development pace of AOS4. Many will probarly just think; we got BetterWB and other upgrade packages for WB3.x, so why bother.

But for getting max impact for software releases, it makes sense having better cohesion between classic and NG OS versions.

Just curious about how you forsee it being done..?

[kolla]

Back on topic, I think some people's dogmatic idealism is getting in the way of getting things done.

Very true, this dogmatic belief that software development is done best when it is done by paying single individuals is indeed getting in the way of getting things done.

A-EON is doing a fantastic job of getting new software products to market by paying developers so don't complain when they want to protect their copyright at the same time.

Protect their copyright from what, exactly? What is the point of this protection, what are these copyright owners afraid of? You are aware that even when something is open source, it is typically still under copyright? A-EON could easily be the hub for development of Amiga software, share the code with the community of volunteering developers, and still own the IP, you know - and better yet, not having to pay anyone to do the job of improving the software.

If you don't like it, stop the endless talking and start a bounty to buy the rights from A-EON and make it "free" or get out of the way because they aren't slowing down for a few hippies.

But they are slowing down because of a few hippies, that is _exactly_ what they are doing.

[kolla]

I wouldn't be surprised if Amiga capable FPGA hardware is outselling Amiga PPC hardware yet this larger potential market is practically ignored even as PPC is dying.

Amiga capable FPGA hardware has outsold Amiga PPC hardware a long time ago, as Minimig soft cores exist for many FPGA boards that are sold commercially for other uses. And it only grows, more, fast and better. In the mean time, a few hippies are hacking on OS4 in their spare time.

[dschallock]

A-EON is doing a fantastic job of getting new software products to market by paying developers

+1
I can't wait to see what they do with Imagefx.  I would love to be part of that team in some capacity.

[matthey]

While I do agree with you regarding further development of AOS3.x, I wonder how they should find the resources to do so. Especially since they have problems keeping up desired development pace of AOS4. Many will probably just think; we got BetterWB and other upgrade packages for WB3.x, so why bother.

But for getting max impact for software releases, it makes sense having better cohesion between classic and NG OS versions.

Just curious about how you forsee it being done..?

There are 2 challenges for a 68k AmigaOS 4.x to be successful.

1) The cost needs to be lower than for the PPC AmigaOS.
2) The efficiency needs to be better than for the PPC AmigaOS.

Much of AmigaOS 4 PPC has already been developed which should lower the cost of developing AmigaOS 4 for the 68k. The AmigaOS 4 68k cost needs to be affordable and in line with lower cost 68k hardware for the masses instead of the classes. Efficiency is nearly as important as new features to 68k value. Compiler 68k support is generally old but poor compiler support didn't stop the AmigaOS from having good efficiency up to AmigaOS 3.1. I believe the efficiency could be brought back but the early versions of AmigaOS 4 68k would likely be slower. Perhaps the first step toward AmigaOS 4 68k development would be to allow developers to work on and release AmigaOS 3.x bug fixes and minor enhancements which improve compatibility with the AmigaOS 4 API for free. If the developers were successful at improving the 68k AmigaOS, then Amiga users would be happy to pay a reasonable cost to encourage comprehensive 68k updates. This would require allowing the 68k developers full access to the AmigaOS 4 sources. It would not be open source but hopefully it could be open enough to attract developers. I have worked on vbcc enhancements for free but the source is open (even though copyrights are maintained). It may be worthwhile to pay someone highly experienced like Olsen or ThoR to manage the project while doing some work themselves. Quality development on a budget is not easy. AROS is more attractive to open source developers which A-EON would have to compete with in making AmigaOS 4 68k development attractive. The way it is now, it feels like AmigaOS 68k development is being blocked.

[kolla]

+1
I can't wait to see what they do with Imagefx.  I would love to be part of that team in some capacity.

Let them know, and they will appoint you as head programmer, I am sure. :laughing:

[eliyahu]

@thread

guys, this is not a thread about PPC vs 68k or for discussing your fantasy OS developments. this is my last warning about off-topic posts like this. we already have another thread where you can discuss that to your hearts' content.

-- eliyahu

[Niding]

@eliyahu

Usually I applaud your direction regarding moderation, but in this case your are a bit off the mark.

The original post stated;

"Call for Amiga Developers Kickstarting PowerPC and 68k software development".

While I assume the premise is mostly non-OS development related, having AOS 3 and 4 as similar as possible would increase the revenue pool for vendors like Aeonkit (and others).

To be honest, since the original post was a "call for developers" to basically email Aeonkit showing intrest, any post at all is off topic since all the OP is looking for is out of thread contact. So should sticky it and lock if you want to be 100% ontopic.

[eliyahu]

To be honest, since the original post was a "call for developers" to basically email Aeonkit showing intrest, any post at all is off topic since all the OP is looking for is out of thread contact. So should sticky it and lock if you want to be 100% ontopic.

don't tempt me. :lol:

but, ok, fair enough. i take your point.

-- eliyahu

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Let them know, and they will appoint you as head programmer, I am sure. :laughing:

I know you said this in-jest, but if dschallock was head programmer I'd buy the software for sure.  

[kolla]

I know you said this in-jest, but if dschallock was head programmer I'd buy the software for sure.  

They just have to make him an offer he cannot  refuse :rofl:

[Iggy]

Further development of AmigaOS 3.X?
AmigaOS 4.1 68K?

Hmm, the first can't be done (unless you ask Cloanto), and the second is unlikely as it would undercut Hyperion's PPC product.