New Protracker - your input is welcome

[mahen]

Yeah, good luck and thanks Ruben

(BTW thanks for bringing Immortal

Of course, it'll support any amiga compatible
OS through rtg / ahi.

But why do people always only mention AOS 4 ?
MOS is as amiga-ish as OS 4 and at least as
real And both have the same aim : PPC  native
amigaOS, that'll then extend into something else.
(OS 5 ADE, MOS QBOX)

Anyway, great thing, we really need such a piece
of software

[Kay]

> But why do people always only mention AOS 4 ?
> MOS is as amiga-ish as OS 4 and at least as

Damn, you just had to ask, didnt you? ;-) Well, okay, I'll answer why I didn't mention MOS: While it might be almost as "Amiga-ish" as AmigaOS, it is significantly less "Amiga" than AmigaOS. I might have had an interest in it because of its compatibility with old Amiga software, if it wasn't for the fact that there is a real continuation of AmigaOS in the pipeline. As things stand today, however, it is more or less irrelevant to me. Thus I don't advocate it any more than I advocate Linux, Windows, QNX, BeOS, MacOS, or any other OS. I leave that to the people who care about it (like you).

Kay

[mahen]

I understand and respect your point.

However, I really think it's more a "name" issue.
B/C morphOS is a clean rewrite of the AmigaOS
and designed to be more in the long term, it should
be considered as amiga-ish as amiga OS4. And has
nothing to do with alien OS'es like linux etc.

I fear this b/c imagine that OS 4 turns out to be
crap, or is released in a long time (which I hope
won't be true, it's just an hypothetic situation),
because it's not Amiga(c) OS, you wouldn't consider
it as a new amiga OS ?

(amiga, not the brand but the community, spirit,
legacy, etc...)

?

Actually, what I fear the most is that on amiga.org,
most people seem to totally forget MorphOS for
OS 4. I think it's not normal.

[Kay]

> However, I really think it's more a "name" issue.

To some extent, that is correct. I believe that having the trademark will give AmigaOS an advantage in terms of expanding the market. "MorphOS" means nothing to people outside the current community, whilst "AmigaOS" does. So while the products may have similar features, I believe AmigaOS to have more potential. Since they are to some extent competing for the same market, supporting the one with the greatest chance of survival makes sense (to me, at least). Other advantages in this respect is the fact that AInc has more than one leg to stand on. AFAIK, BPlan has the Pegasos and MOS. Their survival will most likely depend on these two (closely related) products. AInc has the DE, and has recently landed a deal with MS. Additionally, even if AInc should go out of business, Hyperion would be able to develop AmigaOS4.x.

Another reason why I support AmigaOS4, is that I have considerable faith and sympathy for the people behind it. Hyperion has delivered top-notch products in recent years (thus the faith), and has done so while subsidising their Amiga development with earnings made in other markets (thus the sympathy). Additionally, there are AFAICR a lot of other well-respected Amiga developers contributing.

> because it's not Amiga(c) OS, you wouldn't consider
> it as a new amiga OS ?

Not as long as there is an official effort which I have faith in, no.

Anyway, I wish MOS all the best for the future. If I have judged wrong and MOS turns out to be a resounding success while AmigaOS flops completely, I might very well come over. But as of now, I don't think that is the more likely course of events.

Hope I haven't offended anyone too much...;-)

Kay

[xeron]

But why do people always only mention AOS 4 ?
MOS is as amiga-ish as OS 4 and at least as
real And both have the same aim : PPC native
amigaOS, that'll then extend into something else.
(OS 5 ADE, MOS QBOX)

The reason I say "and maybe an OS4 specific version?", or "I hope it works on OS4", is simply because I intend to buy OS4. Its not an anti-morphos thing, and its no more complicated than that.

[ruben]

@Simoami

Glad you droped in, I'd eventually get in touch with you to create the default skin for PT5, since I really love your GUI design stuff. I hope you'd be interested :-)

As for your suggestion, I have to say I don't agree with such a radical change in the concept. PT5 is a tracker and should remain faithfull to the concept of it's predecessors. Specifically, it's way of pattern editing is crucial. That really is what defines the "tracker" class. Changing that will lead to something else, which for sure has it's followers as well, but it wouldn't be a tracker.

However, I agree that the user shouldn't be forced to know all those hex commands by heart. So, a good idea maybe would be to have this implemented by allowing the user to press the RMB over the command slot, a menu pops up  where the command is selected and then a small window pops up for parameter changing via some button/meter.

[ruben]

@ buzz

I'd like to have a webpage setup before I start spreading the news.

Still, feedback from you guys here has been great and I'll try to implement as much as possible. I plan to "release soon and often", so that you can see the progress.

[mahen]

Kay, I understand you. It's nice to see open
minded people and to be up to discuss things
in a polite manner.

It's very funny when you see the difference
between countries : USA / UK : mostly pro OS4;
FR / GER : mostly pro MOS. Not so surprising actually

I mostly disagree with you on one thing : when you
say Amiga Inc is much more reliable than Thendic.
(I mean, secure, regarding their financial capacity etc).

When there's an amiga expo, thendic now brings
50 pegasos, with high quality flat screens, superb
towers etc, pay the tickets for everyone etc.
Thendic also have other security related activites.
I really think they have money. And they have long
term projects.

Oops, sorry for the off topic Ruben
GOOD LUCK !!

- mahen

[Kay]

> Kay, I understand you. It's nice to see open
> minded people and to be up to discuss things
> in a polite manner.

I'll second that sentiment. Somehow, I had expected this to have turned into a full-scale flamewar by now. :-)

> When there's an amiga expo, thendic now brings
> 50 pegasos, with high quality flat screens, superb
> towers etc, pay the tickets for everyone etc.
> Thendic also have other security related activites.
> I really think they have money. And they have long
> term projects.

Ah, good point. Yes, their show presence has been impressive. And now that you mention it, I think I heard something about them having something to do with security. Well, I guess that gives both companies a good chance of survival then. I'm still not "switching sides", though, but this gives me greater confidence in MOS' future than I had before.

Anyway, as you've pointed out, we're off-topic. Sorry Ruben!

Kay

[mahen]

Yeah, we really pray for Ruben to succeed

I think the card the amiga had to play is
"retro style" softs/games, pushed further.

For instance, the new Crossfire 2 game...

- mahen

[Wilse]

Hi Ruben,

This is great news. The main thing I'd like to see is full midi support.
also, with regards to FruityLoops, it would be nice to have something like this that could be used in conjunction with PT5. We don't really have anything like FL, Reason or Acid on the Amiga and while all of them have their shortcomings, they are still useful programmes in their own right.

Hello,
I have a friend used to play live with midi tracker but on fasttracker PeeCee (old 486).

It would be nice to have a small player which can play only the tracks wanted (cut the sound of the track : do not play the note). Of course, midi support is a must.

A devoted player for live act would be very nice.
The maximum footprint would be :
A1200
4Mb ram
20Mb disk
Midi expansion

This configuration would be easily moveable. (more than Peecee.)

The format readable by a such player must be scalable and open. (ie : at least most common format. converter exists).

See you!

[ruben]

Anyway, as you've pointed out, we're off-topic. Sorry Ruben!

No problem  :-) I find it very interesting as well.
In fact, while we're at it, I have a couple of reasons to believe AmigaOS has more chances of succeeding than MorphOS:

1. Name recognition: 10 years ago the Amiga was ruling computerland as the ultimate dream machine.  And while 10 yrs may seem a lot in computing, it's not that much in people's minds, and the name is still well remembered. Just mention "Amiga" outside our circle and you'll see people babbling about Sensible Soccer or how cool it was to make fun of PC users with our kick-ass platform!  :-D
It's a significant head-start for Amiga

2. DE and the hardware agnostic plan: If this is well done, it can bring a huge market opportunity for Amiga, because we're not only talking about the desktop anymore, but targeting a variety of devices that collectively make a vast market. This has the potential to attract lots of fresh users/developers into the community.

Wether you like or not, the next Amiga is what it's owners decide it will be, because they're the only ones in the world who have the legal right to do it.
MorphOS and AROS are, like Windows or Linux, other operating systems. The fact they feel like AmigaOS makes them more interesting to me than other OS's out there, but that's all there is to it.

[sexton]

First of all. The ProTracker interface is NOT BAD. It's not the worst thing of it. Maybe the best, this is why it has been more or less replicated in programs such as FastTracker II. You can do almost everything with the keyboard. Besides, everything is at a click of distance, because it doesn't follow modern GUI design patterns. Please check www.renoise.com. This is what the evolution of a tracker should be. The OCTAMED workbench-based interface: NO. ProTracker feels rock solid, like hardware, this is why it was so successful.