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AuthorTopic: Hyperion announces OS 3.1 update  (Read 23343 times)

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guest11527

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Re: Hyperion announces OS 3.1 update
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2017, 09:01:20 PM »
Quote from: kreciu;833134
I would say that adding basic functionality of OS3.1 recognizing larger HDD "out of the box" is a OK choice, but spending more time/resources on it is like asking MS to make updates for Win 3.0 so I can use my USB printer.
True, but isn't that the point in Amiga? I mean, as in "retro computing"?

Quote from: kreciu;833134
Overall, from my perspective I don't see DIRECTION in development of "Amiga" overall.
Well, different people want different things. The system is certainly outdated by many means, so which direction do you expect? To "move forward" to catch up with PCs? This ship sailed away a long time ago, and CBM failed for a reason.

There is a need to clean up the system a little bit, there is some demand from the user side,so why not address this need?
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: Hyperion announces OS 3.1 update
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2017, 10:02:00 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;833132
The HDToolBox is such an example: There are currently no resources to re-implement a reaction-based HDToolBox as found in 3.9. There will be, however, a HDToolBox that looks as bad as the 3.1 version (sigh), but it handles big partitions fine, is able to enable the DirectSCSI flag of the FFS, switch on the long-filename support....

So, things work right, but the GUI is not as fancy as it could.

I'll be very interested to see if the HDToolBox (and other utilities) from 3.9 work with 3.1.4 (or 3.14).  I guess time will tell.  ;)
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Offline BozzerBigD

Re: Hyperion announces OS 3.1 update
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2017, 10:10:41 PM »
He seems to be assuming we'll happily do a clean install of Workbench 3.1.4 and then copy over some OS3.9 files however the way I see it the new bits of Workbench 3.1.4 could be added to OS3.9. Why would the average user 'downgrade' to an uglier system just to allow the devs to keep pushing out the equivalent of Atari 2600 games?
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

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Offline kreciu

Re: Hyperion announces OS 3.1 update
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2017, 10:54:33 PM »
Initially I was quite happy with idea of some updates for OS3.1, the more I think about it I really don't see much reason for it.

I did not even bother to install OS3.1, went straight to OS3.9+BB 1, 2, 3 and 4. I really think there is plenty of updates floating around for OS3.1 and OS3.9 (updates? Take AmiKit!? - this is AMAZING what can be done)

It is not like new updates add new functionality to my system... such as Office 98 ;).

Every-time I use my Amiga's there is this time I "hit the wall" meaning, miraculously everything works and... nothing more can be done. Sure, I can check email, listen to mp3... etc. watch Warp3D cow animation for about 3h a day or in near future move Warp3D logo on the second screen...

I'm going to sell all this Amiga stuff and play Angry Birds on my phone with 4GB ram.

My point is (?) that we (I'm just a customer!) don't have much of productivity software that is up to date. Sure, updates for system are good, but we have plenty stable OS3.1/OS3.9 and what next?

I think I'm not alone in this, but "pimping my Workbench" become main use of AmigaOS, new clock, calendar, new icon set, new background, another picture viewer, DVD recorder etc. etc. and that IS OK, and it still can be in future, but...

In some way I would like to have AmigaOS that... my wife could use for her business. How many people HATES MS, APPLE, GOOGLE etc. etc. digesting all your personalities and treating your personal lives as product?

Personally I see AmigaOS as system that is "SECURE, light, fast, virus free, don't track every single click on your keyboard and reads all your emails, and downloads ALL user info. etc.". This type of system would become some sort of alternative to main stream today. There is plenty angry users of NOKIA phones ;).

Main "base" is there, AmigaOS rights are protected and this system IS distinct from everything else is there. It is actually good that is not developed for 20 years, it can avoid all this "20gb size after installation + 4GB ram + ... " thing. KEEP it small, simple, one CD installation (MAX). People don't need all this features they never use.
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Offline SACC-guy

Re: Hyperion announces OS 3.1 update
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2017, 12:24:44 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;833136
True, but isn't that the point in Amiga? I mean, as in "retro computing"?


Well, different people want different things. The system is certainly outdated by many means, so which direction do you expect? To "move forward" to catch up with PCs? This ship sailed away a long time ago, and CBM failed for a reason.

There is a need to clean up the system a little bit, there is some demand from the user side,so why not address this need?
I concur.. as a very user group person. The biggest request we get is how to use big hard drives. It drives (grin) everyone crazy. Amigians come in with new hard drives always over 4 gigs and ...you know, etc

These small updates make life and Amiga better!
 

Offline ne_one

Re: Hyperion announces OS 3.1 update
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2017, 04:16:40 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;833136
Well, different people want different things. The system is certainly outdated by many means, so which direction do you expect? To "move forward" to catch up with PCs? This ship sailed away a long time ago, and CBM failed for a reason.


Apart from subjective wish lists, there are a number of fundamental areas that need to be addressed across the board. No one is expecting a quantum leap to current relevance.

How any of this relates to Commodore is a mystery to me. Their decline certainly doesn't relate to OS development that ended 25 years ago. I'm not sure that we can extend that same courtesy to those that have been in charge of the platform and let it language for the past 15 years.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

Re: Hyperion announces OS 3.1 update
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2017, 04:58:11 AM »
@kreciu

Secure? Surely you jest? AmigaOS is anything but secure.
It's design almost screams "invade me, look around, do whatever you like, not only will I put up no fight I'll actually help you"  :-)
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline kreciu

Re: Hyperion announces OS 3.1 update
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2017, 05:12:46 AM »
Quote from: fishy_fiz;833148
@kreciu

Secure? Surely you jest? AmigaOS is anything but secure.
It's design almost screams "invade me, look around, do whatever you like, not only will I put up no fight I'll actually help you"  :-)


I did not say it IS secure, I'm saying that should be one if possible direction of development.

Right now even I know it is everything BUT secure :-)
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Offline Tenacious

Re: Hyperion announces OS 3.1 update
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2017, 05:39:52 AM »
Thomas and Olaf, I'm very excited about what you are doing.  I very much look forward to trying it out.   Thank you!  

I'm guessing that your improved 3.14 will be compatible with all Amigas, even the most basic configurations?  Asked differently, your improvements and bug-fixes will not crash an otherwise stock A500 that is equipped with an updated rom?

Years ago, I was happy to upgrade to 3.5 and then 3.9 as they came out.  At the time I was also pushing my A3000D with a 68060, PicassoIV and Delfina, believing then there would always be an evolving path to keep the Amiga near cutting edge or at least relevant.  After a few years, my system could not keep up with the then new YouTube, changing net code, and security protocols. There were also little annoying compatibility issues among the HW and SW.  About 8 years ago, a HD failure blew it all away.  In retrospect, 3.5 and 3.9 were paths for advancing hardware with some great system improvements but especially lots of eye candy for advanced Amigas.

Today, I happily run more modest A2000s. The most advanced has a 68030, Indivision, and MASplayer and is closer to a 'pure' Amiga experience than the ubber A3000 was.  Also, the net is far too hostile and evolving for me to ever venture there with an Amiga again.  OTOH, I have always enjoyed the Amiga's OS and HW for their own sake.  I still do.  OS3.1 suites these systems very well.  Hopefully, 3.14 will too.

Simply my humble 2 cents...
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 06:03:05 AM by Tenacious »
 

Offline nyteschayde

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Re: Hyperion announces OS 3.1 update
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2017, 06:01:07 AM »
Quote from: kreciu;833141
Initially I was quite happy with idea of some updates for OS3.1, the more I think about it I really don't see much reason for it.

My A600 for example doesn't have an O20 or greater in it. This means 3.5/3.9+ are off limits. This is true for a lot of systems that 3.1ish works on. I hope the 3.1.4 or 3.14 update works with 68000 3.1 ROM'ed Amigas as well.

Granted most of my Amigas are accelerated, but some aren't.
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guest11527

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Re: Hyperion announces OS 3.1 update
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2017, 07:37:35 AM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;833139
I'll be very interested to see if the HDToolBox (and other utilities) from 3.9 work with 3.1.4 (or 3.14).  I guess time will tell.  ;)

It will work, but you will not get access to the new features. As DirectSCSI and long file names. These are new functionalities, and the 3.9 HDToolbox has no idea about them.
 

guest11527

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Re: Hyperion announces OS 3.1 update
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2017, 07:52:08 AM »
Quote from: kreciu;833141
Initially I was quite happy with idea of some updates for OS3.1, the more I think about it I really don't see much reason for it.
Look, if you don't want it, don't buy it. But I've seen here people for years complaining that there is no update, that they need to hack up their system, that the owners/licensors are so bad that they do not support the system anymore.... Now we get an update, and it's also wrong.

Quote from: kreciu;833141
I did not even bother to install OS3.1, went straight to OS3.9+BB 1, 2, 3 and 4. I really think there is plenty of updates floating around for OS3.1 and OS3.9 (updates? Take AmiKit!? - this is AMAZING what can be done)
And how do you know that this all works together? We have tons of some third-party upgrades of excellent to mediocre quality, but not integrated into the Os. Just tons of patches floating around.


Quote from: kreciu;833141
It is not like new updates add new functionality to my system... such as Office 98 ;).
No, you don't, and you won't, and nobody is going to make an Office for Amiga. It's a retro system. If you need a system for productivity, get a PC.


Quote from: kreciu;833141
I'm going to sell all this Amiga stuff and play Angry Birds on my phone with 4GB ram.
Please do. There are certainly collectors out there that are keen to get another system. Complaining that Amiga is way back behind does not help. It will remain way back behind, as it was left behind 30 years ago, and it will not catch up anymore. The whole point here is that it is a museum piece.


Quote from: kreciu;833141
My point is (?) that we (I'm just a customer!) don't have much of productivity software that is up to date.
Right, and it won't come. This ship sailed away a long time ago. The system is too small, too slow, too outdated, misconstructed to be useful for anything even remotely modern.


Quote from: kreciu;833141
I think I'm not alone in this, but "pimping my Workbench" become main use of AmigaOS, new clock, calendar, new icon set, new background, another picture viewer, DVD recorder etc. etc. and that IS OK, and it still can be in future, but...
And I personally do not even care about "pimping the workbench". Mine looks rather basic. I don't mind. This is not what I use the system for.

Quote from: kreciu;833141
In some way I would like to have AmigaOS that... my wife could use for her business.
Won't work, won't happen. M$ will not port Office to Amiga, not now, not in any distant future. Get her a Mac or a PC. We don't even have any decent printer drivers and we won't make new ones.


Quote from: kreciu;833141
Personally I see AmigaOS as system that is "SECURE, light, fast, virus free, don't track every single click on your keyboard and reads all your emails, and downloads
Amiga is nothing of that. It is not secure, it has no idea about security at all. It is neither virus free. It lacks any serious means to defeat any type of virus, neither any isolation or mechanism to disrupt user tracking. The only reason why such malware does not exist is because the system is not worth considering for the authors of such software. Other than that, writing malware on the Amiga is considerably easier than on any other system, given its total lack of protection. The whole Os concept is so completely outdated, it is totally out of scope to even think about adding it. Forget it, won't happen.

If you want privacy, get a Linux system.

What we get here with 3.1.4 is a bugfix release. Only that. It is "clean up and take down the trash". Not less, not more. It will not give you a modern system. If you want a modern system, go to Wallmart and buy one. If you want a system that respects your privacy, also go to Wallmart, then download and install Linux.
 

Offline NorthWay

Re: Hyperion announces OS 3.1 update
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2017, 08:28:26 AM »
BTW, I'm pretty sure I saw Joanne Dow post in a Slashdot thread about Amigas just a few weeks ago.
 

Offline stefcep2

Re: Hyperion announces OS 3.1 update
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2017, 08:32:29 AM »
Thomas: if you had the 3.9 sources and rights, would this update exist?

I think not, but would like an honest answer, because it otherwise does seem a pointless back to the future update.
 

Offline kolla

Re: Hyperion announces OS 3.1 update
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2017, 09:49:42 AM »
Quote from: stefcep2;833155
Thomas: if you had the 3.9 sources and rights, would this update exist?


If that was the case, we would have a maintained 3.9, or maybe even 3.10.

There is a lot of 3.1 in OS3.9 still, (and pre 3.0 too) and I suspect that many of the bits and pieces that are updated in this 3.1.4 are also relevant for 3.9.
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