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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: skipp604 on September 23, 2016, 10:45:28 AM

Title: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: skipp604 on September 23, 2016, 10:45:28 AM
Can this be real?

https://www.facebook.com/phase5digital/

A few quotes from their posts:

"A new press release is expected in late September. Stay tuned !"

"phase 5 digital products obtained the registration number UBA21006796 due to the law and the regulations of the Federal Environment Agency by 09/02/2016. The registration number is used for all electronic devices such as Blizzard Turbo cards with battery button cell that is needed to be allowed to sell products with batteries legally and officially."

"Power UP your Commodore Amiga 500/1200/2000/3000(T)/4000(T)/CD32"

What's that about? If you look at the attached picture, you'll see that Facebook has verified the authenticity of the page. Anyone care to weigh in on the topic?
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on September 23, 2016, 03:18:51 PM
Good find! There's a few other pictures on their page, including one of an (albeit small) office. Guess we'll see! ;)
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Acill on September 23, 2016, 03:21:35 PM
Quote from: skipp604;814315
Can this be real?

https://www.facebook.com/phase5digital/

A few quotes from their posts:

"A new press release is expected in late September. Stay tuned !"

"phase 5 digital products obtained the registration number UBA21006796 due to the law and the regulations of the Federal Environment Agency by 09/02/2016. The registration number is used for all electronic devices such as Blizzard Turbo cards with battery button cell that is needed to be allowed to sell products with batteries legally and officially."

"Power UP your Commodore Amiga 500/1200/2000/3000(T)/4000(T)/CD32"

What's that about? If you look at the attached picture, you'll see that Facebook has verified the authenticity of the page. Anyone care to weigh in on the topic?


If it is real and they are not just another group able to use the name a lot of questions from some of us that lost a lot of money when they went out last time are going to come up. I know I lost about $800 in the pre orders for the G3 boards that were going to be released and I lost a CSPPC that was sent in for repairs. Lots of others in the same situation. I never expected to see that again, but the way some of this community reacts I could see things get ugly. I hope thats not the case. I would donate that same money if it meant they come back building things like they did in the past!
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: yssing on September 23, 2016, 04:12:42 PM
Quote from: Acill;814323
If it is real and they are not just another group able to use the name a lot of questions from some of us that lost a lot of money when they went out last time are going to come up. I know I lost about $800 in the pre orders for the G3 boards that were going to be released and I lost a CSPPC that was sent in for repairs. Lots of others in the same situation. I never expected to see that again, but the way some of this community reacts I could see things get ugly. I hope thats not the case. I would donate that same money if it meant they come back building things like they did in the past!
I am afraid those money and items are long gone. Most likely it's not even the same people, some of them might be, but who knows.

In any case, if they truly are making a comeback, then I do welcome it, they did create some really good products.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: utri007 on September 23, 2016, 05:30:50 PM
In same address has these companies :

Concorde Media UG
Amiga Technologies UG

http://www.p-5.eu/ has regiestered, but there is no details. who.is tells a error, https://whois.eurid.eu tells same.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: QuikSanz on September 23, 2016, 06:44:17 PM
What if it's Gunner? lol
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: zipper on September 23, 2016, 06:54:25 PM
Google translated from a1k.org excerpts:

Salvador, all hot air. He probably needs a bit of advertising for his socks on ebay.

 Amtsgericht Frankfurt am Main File Number: HRB 105021 Announcement made on: 04/13/2016 22:01
 Publications of the Amtsgericht Frankfurt am Main take place in () set to the address and the line of business without guarantee.
 New entries
04/13/2016
 HRB 105021: phase 5 digital products UG (limited), Bad Vilbel, Weißdornweg 10, 61118 Bad Vilbel. Company with limited liability. Association dated 02.03.2016. Business Address: Weißdornweg 10, 61118 Bad Vilbel. Subject: development and production of computer systems, design of hardware for computer motherboards, graphics cards, accelerator cards, computer case, input devices, laptops, tablets, mobile devices, software. Share capital: 100,00 EUR. General regulation of representation: If only one manager is appointed, he shall represent the company alone. More than one manager is appointed, the company is represented by the Managing Director. Managing Director: Fernandez Gomez, Salvador, Bad Vilbel, * 02.03.1975, with the power to conclude on behalf of the company in its own name or as representatives of a third legal transactions.
>>>
What a figure of fun - you can like him my information email so he can sue me, I'll go talk plunder my postage spot. At the bull%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! no one will probably seriously believe? In Neuss one noticed already talking that technically has no deep knowledge in Gegenteil.
1.Er has no technical knowledge and no money. (Otherwise he would not such rubbish on Ebay list)
Today
 2.The phase5 products would all be redesigned as to present state neither the law nor the parts are available.
3.Selbst when having the entire design and content go along then let them bring him little. The rights has still Ralph Schmidt and is - should the hurdles 1) and 2) to be taken, not just watch, on the contrary. (Recall the PPC Rome history for WinUAE)
So you can only warn that money is better invested in each other Amiga developers before the guy. And I so do not want to raise to the level of a "developer" him - actually can not speak of a stage at the height

So they don't show high hopes...
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: wawrzon on September 23, 2016, 07:04:44 PM
funny that people seem to fall regularly for obvious scams.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Dragster on September 23, 2016, 08:46:50 PM
Fernandez Gomez Salvador... well, Phase 5 had an employee with that name at the time who was responsible for handling RMA status on boards and products sent for repair... I remember dealing with him when I sent my BPPC for repair under warranty... all of this p5 return sounds too good to be true, it's a scam most likely...

Cheers,
Dragster.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on September 23, 2016, 09:07:24 PM
Quote from: Dragster;814335
I remember dealing with him when I sent my BPPC for repair under warranty...

Did you get it back?  I think is the important question.  :lol:
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Dragster on September 23, 2016, 09:10:18 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;814337
Did you get it back?  I think is the important question.  :lol:

  Yes, I did... when DCE tookover I finally got it back...
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Acill on September 23, 2016, 10:05:05 PM
Quote from: Dragster;814338
Yes, I did... when DCE tookover I finally got it back...


Wow, one of the lucky few! ;) Mine was never heard from again.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: paul1981 on September 23, 2016, 11:07:12 PM
Quote from: Acill;814339
Wow, one of the lucky few! ;) Mine was never heard from again.


Sounds like Dragster had yours. :laughing:
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: zylesea on September 23, 2016, 11:31:09 PM
I got my BlizzardPPC back from repair, too. I guess during the bankrupt some items got lost. My Blizzard came back from DCE.
But i doubt that this new P5 will get any progress on the lost boards. It's not the same company. The old P5 got liquidated according to the German Insolvenzrecht. Case closed.

We'll see if Fernandez Gomez will resurrect something worthwhile or if it will end up again in yet another miserable failure. Better don't expect anything. And don't pay in advance ;-)
But best of luck to FG, would be fun to see P5 (at least somehow) back in business.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: CodePoet on September 24, 2016, 04:03:30 AM
These guys just might be the real deal. If you watch the video on their YouTube page, they show an outline of (what appears to be) a Blizzard PPC card, which gradually populates with copper layers and vias

They wouldn't (normally) have access to this sort of thing without the sources
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: F1Lupo on September 24, 2016, 05:14:20 AM
Quote from: CodePoet;814352
These guys just might be the real deal. If you watch the video on their YouTube page, they show an outline of (what appears to be) a Blizzard PPC card, which gradually populates with copper layers and vias

They wouldn't (normally) have access to this sort of thing without the sources
ya checked that out too and wow it would be great if Phase 5 comes back and starts making new hardware for our miggies again:hammer: low end to highest end kit has always been top notch from Phase 5 over the years
Title: Edge Connectors
Post by: polyp2000 on September 24, 2016, 10:40:16 AM
I posed the question as to where they are getting the edge connectors from and they claim to have an overseas company involved. I wonder if Majsta is aware of this or even if he has a source yet.

imagine if they could make one with an fpga core on it. They might have a manufacturer doing a limited run on the connectors but I doubt they will be persuading Motorola to be fabbing a run of '060s .

Theres a lot of interesting stuff going on in the world of Amiga hardware at the moment and everyone should be sharing ideas or at least aiming for a common configuration that eliminates all no-longer available parts.

Apollo + Individual + Phase 5 + Aeon would love to see a future roadmap for these guys!
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: Iggy on September 24, 2016, 11:27:05 AM
Quote from: polyp2000;814356
I posed the question as to where they are getting the edge connectors from and they claim to have an overseas company involved. I wonder if Majsta is aware of this or even if he has a source yet.

imagine if they could make one with an fpga core on it. They might have a manufacturer doing a limited run on the connectors but I doubt they will be persuading Motorola to be fabbing a run of '060s .

Theres a lot of interesting stuff going on in the world of Amiga hardware at the moment and everyone should be sharing ideas or at least aiming for a common configuration that eliminates all no-longer available parts.

Apollo + Individual + Phase 5 + Aeon would love to see a future roadmap for these guys!

God I love you guys, such endless optimism.
Even from the guy who's tag sounds like the results from a turn of the millennia rectal exam.:roflmao:
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Jose on September 24, 2016, 02:21:36 PM
I think when a company goes into liquidation (depends on the country of course, but there are some general facts that apply to most) not everyone has the same priority. It is very possible that whatever authority (state ?) took care of the liquidation considered the boards as inventory. Just a possibility that I wouldn't be surprised considering how some country's authorities handle this type of thing..
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: Iggy on September 24, 2016, 02:35:39 PM
Quote from: polyp2000;814356
...but I doubt they will be persuading Motorola to be fabbing a run of '060s...


Since Motorola (or Freescale) isn't around anymore that could be a problem (and you ought to see the prices the new 68020s are commanding - personally it all looks tailored to replacements for legacy military and aerospace applications).
While NXP might not be interested, there are still a far number of '60s around for limited runs.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: SpaceMonkey on September 24, 2016, 02:51:06 PM
I would see this a someone using the existing board designs update to be Weee compliant etc and maybe directly soldering the memory to the board.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Dragster on September 24, 2016, 04:04:33 PM
Quote from: CodePoet;814352
These guys just might be the real deal. If you watch the video on their YouTube page, they show an outline of (what appears to be) a Blizzard PPC card, which gradually populates with copper layers and vias


It looks more like a 030 or 060 board as it has the side connector for the SCSI module which the BlizzardPPC does not have.

Cheers,
D.
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: Crom00 on September 25, 2016, 01:27:33 PM
They can always license the 68080 from Apollo Team. Imagine that... a PPC with Apollo CORE AND PPC.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: wawrzon on September 25, 2016, 01:43:55 PM
Quote from: Dragster;814362
It looks more like a 030 or 060 board as it has the side connector for the SCSI module which the BlizzardPPC does not have.

Cheers,
D.


its blizzard 060.
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: wawrzon on September 25, 2016, 01:44:56 PM
Quote from: Crom00;814394
They can always license the 68080 from Apollo Team. Imagine that... a PPC with Apollo CORE AND PPC.


not very appealing..
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Jose on September 25, 2016, 02:34:14 PM
"..a PPC with Apollo CORE AND PPC"

That would be awesome, I'd be interested, as long as  noone sends them money with preorders :)
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: eliyahu on September 25, 2016, 04:39:44 PM
Quote from: Crom00;814394
They can always license the 68080 from Apollo Team. Imagine that... a PPC with Apollo CORE AND PPC.

i'd pay a fortune for that. seriously. i'd sell some of my NG gear if needed to afford that.

-- eliyahu
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: Matt_H on September 25, 2016, 05:19:11 PM
Well, well. If this turns out to be legit, the clues so far point to new production runs of the Blizzard 1260, 2060, and Cyberstorm MK3. We could certainly do with a few more of those boards kicking around...
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: skolman on September 25, 2016, 06:18:02 PM
Quote from: Crom00;814394
Imagine that... a PPC with Apollo CORE AND PPC.


(http://phytec.com/site/assets/files/1652/5200b_header.255x227.jpg)

http://phytec.com/products/system-on-modules/phycore/mpc5200b-io/

http://obligement.free.fr/articles/vampire600.php
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: Bennymee on September 25, 2016, 07:29:20 PM
Quote from: skolman;814410
(http://phytec.com/site/assets/files/1652/5200b_header.255x227.jpg)

http://phytec.com/products/system-on-modules/phycore/mpc5200b-io/

http://obligement.free.fr/articles/vampire600.php


Creating a turbo with an existing cpu should be less work then creating a new one ;)
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: jack-3d on September 26, 2016, 12:53:53 PM
I am not registered on FB, can anyone ask them if they plan G-Rex re-production? I would be interested in G-Rex A4000T which is extremely rare now (about 5 working G-Rex 4000T sold). But also if the drivers could be somehow opensource, so for example Sonnet Crescendo G3 could be ported.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: adonay on September 26, 2016, 01:35:55 PM
I do wish someone will remake these boards . The blizzard line has been the best and most stable Turbo cards i have had in my Amiga.
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: wawrzon on September 26, 2016, 03:36:30 PM
Quote from: eliyahu;814405
i'd pay a fortune for that. seriously. i'd sell some of my NG gear if needed to afford that.

-- eliyahu


and what would that gain you? seriously, all the time im hearing the genuine amigas are not worth it, better to switch to ppc "ng" gear to start with, because amigas do not provide enough ressources, especially to run anything like os4, and now this?

especially that there is currently an active ppc project out there to supply amiga big boxes with a faster ppc option compatible with warpos and os4 in perspective. you only need to buy a mediator bus board and source a sonnet ppc card.

in my opinion warpos software library counting few hundred titles but only few notable apps doesnt justify any investments in ppc/68k hybrid hardware. the only justification for ppc is usage of os4 and/or morphos, but both render the 68k completely unnecessary. if anything a ppc relacement mainboard for amiga cases might be considered a proper solution for ppc diehards, whils this still sounds like an absurdity.
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: eliyahu on September 26, 2016, 04:04:32 PM
@wawrzon

i appreciate you're not a big fan of the PPC solutions, but for me, a A1200 with a PPC accelerator is my dream. it would let me run OS3.9 and OS4.1; and while you keep saying there's no software, i totally disagree. i use perfectpaint all the time, for example, and that works under WOS. i have no idea if anyone else finds these things as interesting as i do.

i didn't say anyone else would buy. just me. ;)

-- eliyahu
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: wawrzon on September 26, 2016, 04:50:59 PM
Quote from: eliyahu;814442
@wawrzon
i use perfectpaint all the time


perfect paint? i think this is coded in amiblitz and must have been abandoned since it was pretty buggy and would have to be rewritten from the scratch in order to maintain it. but being amiblitz software it is a pure 68k binary, it doesnt take advantage of warpos and if you mean that you are using it under os4 under emulation, then it doesnt require a genuine amiga anyway. so i dont see an argument here.

but in case you are just confusing perfect paint with personal paint, which has a native os4 binary in the meantime, im not sure why would you want to utilize amiga chipset display with it while on os4.

so while im not trying to impose my view on anybody, im still not certain what value a warpos solution would represent today except an emotional one..
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: amiadudeorwat on September 26, 2016, 05:04:12 PM
I'm with eliyahu, I'd buy a newly made Cyberstorm PPC in a heartbeat, especially if they used one of the ~400MHz PPCs like Stachu installs on current boards.  Like the Sonnet project, this doesn't just give you access to a "few notable apps" having that kind of power under OS3.9 gives you access to a few hundred Mame, Genesis, SNES games and possibly a large portion of the PowerPC Mac library under iFusion, though iFusion doesn't currently run on anything but a CSPPC/BPPC.  Not to mention running GL versions of the various Quake like engines at actual decent resolutions at good speeds.
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: UberFreak on September 26, 2016, 05:33:24 PM
No matter what speed CPU is used, the old CSPPC design is still limited to only 128MB of RAM, which makes it not really practical for OS4.
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: adonay on September 26, 2016, 10:59:55 PM
who cares about os 4.x and why use a classic for that anyways . There are many reasons why you would use a classic and not a ppc only os .
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: Iggy on September 26, 2016, 11:13:24 PM
Quote from: adonay;814456
who cares about os 4.x and why use a classic for that anyways . There are many reasons why you would use a classic and not a ppc only os .

I use classic hardware for the fun of it, but its not that practical.
PPC hardware has the power to run software with more utility.

But I will admit that a 603e or 604e augmented legacy system doesn't add much.
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: psxphill on September 26, 2016, 11:31:10 PM
Quote from: wawrzon;814440
and what would that gain you? seriously, all the time im hearing the genuine amigas are not worth it, better to switch to ppc "ng" gear to start with, because amigas do not provide enough ressources, especially to run anything like os4, and now this?

I might spoil things for you, but ppc "ng" gear are not worth it. Better to switch to a PC.

But a "not an A1200" from Jens coupled with a full 68060+PPC would be pretty nice. Ok it's still AGA, but the cpu can access chip ram at full speed no matter whether you throw 256 colour, copper and blitter nasty at it.

I'd accept an Apollo core if they improved the compatibility by supporting the full 68060 fpu and mmu.

Quote from: Bennymee;814413
Creating a turbo with an existing cpu should be less work then creating a new one ;)

That depends on the existing cpu. It may increase the amount of work they need to do (it will just be different work).
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: kolla on September 27, 2016, 12:45:14 AM
I thought a reason why we would never see reruns of these boards was because making them RHOS compliant would be impossible.
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: cgutjahr on September 27, 2016, 01:07:56 AM
Quote from: wawrzon;814443
perfect paint? i think this is coded in amiblitz

It is. But it did use a few external tools (like a raytracer, I kid you not), some of which were available as WarpOS builds aswell (JPEG export, maybe? it's been too long).

Quote from: amiadudeorwat;814444

and possibly a large portion of the PowerPC Mac library under iFusion, though iFusion

If your definition of "possibly" is "no %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ing way" - then yes, possibly.

iFusion never worked properly.

Quote
Not to mention running GL versions of the various Quake like engines at actual decent resolutions at good speeds.

With an extremely crappy mouse ;) You can already run Quake (or MAME...) on your PC - which has lots of horsepower, is connected to the best mouse, keyboard and monitor you have lying around and always has the latest releases available.

I was running PC ports on my classic PPC setup for years. It's not as much fun as it sounds, honest.
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: amiadudeorwat on September 27, 2016, 01:44:10 AM
Quote from: cgutjahr;814466
It is. But it did use a few external tools (like a raytracer, I kid you not), some of which were available as WarpOS builds aswell (JPEG export, maybe? it's been too long).


If your definition of "possibly" is "no %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ing way" - then yes, possibly.

iFusion never worked properly.


With an extremely crappy mouse ;) You can already run Quake (or MAME...) on your PC - which has lots of horsepower, is connected to the best mouse, keyboard and monitor you have lying around and always has the latest releases available.

I was running PC ports on my classic PPC setup for years. It's not as much fun as it sounds, honest.

So you're saying no one ever ran iFusion, also that it is impossible to use anything other than an original Amiga mouse, an Amiga keyboard and 1084 monitor.
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: UberFreak on September 27, 2016, 01:49:57 AM
Quote from: adonay;814456
who cares about os 4.x and why use a classic for that anyways . There are many reasons why you would use a classic and not a ppc only os .


Totally agree, I personally have zero interest in anything PPC, especially on a classic.
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: psxphill on September 27, 2016, 11:26:19 AM
Quote from: kolla;814465
I thought a reason why we would never see reruns of these boards was because making them RHOS compliant would be impossible.


You can apply for exemptions from RHOS & you can also use non-RHOS for spares.

RHOS appears to be pragmatic as the environmental impact of just throwing away or melting down all the old 68060 rather than just reusing them would play a part.

I think you can also get exemptions if you are just a small hobby market.
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: Rotzloeffel on September 27, 2016, 02:49:28 PM
Quote from: amiadudeorwat;814467
So you're saying no one ever ran iFusion,

I installed MacOS 9 PPC with Ifusion on my A4000! It is very buggy and unstable!

resolution is limited to 8bit
you can only use scsi.device! No other controllers are supported
Parititons can only be 1GB
Network is not working

but! It works.... :D
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: LaserBack on September 28, 2016, 06:08:58 AM
Quote from: Rotzloeffel;814486
I installed MacOS 9 PPC with Ifusion on my A4000! It is very buggy and unstable!

resolution is limited to 8bit
you can only use scsi.device! No other controllers are supported
Parititons can only be 1GB
Network is not working

but! It works.... :D

 have you tried ifusion on winuae?
do you know if works there?
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: Iggy on September 28, 2016, 11:20:15 AM
Quote from: UberFreak;814468
Totally agree, I personally have zero interest in anything PPC, especially on a classic.

While I agree with you that PPCs (at least as they exist now) are fairly pointless on the Amiga, the rest of your sentiment has been bugging me since it was posted.
Were we to do nothing but sit here focused on legacy systems, our community would face its continued diminishment.

A GOOD PPC expansion for the Amiga wouldn't rely on something as underpowered as a 603e or 604e cpu or a PC emulating those processors.

For that matter, a better 68K cpu wouldn't be based on something significantly slower than current state of the art silicon (like an fpga).
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: wawrzon on September 28, 2016, 11:37:31 AM
Quote from: Iggy;814520
Were we to do nothing but sit here focused on legacy systems, our community would face its continued diminishment.


the comunity faces revival currently thanks to propositions in what you call "legacy systems" sector. it is ppc focus that led to dimnishment all these years..
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: Rotzloeffel on September 28, 2016, 03:06:12 PM
Quote from: LaserBack;814515
have you tried ifusion on winuae?
do you know if works there?

NO....

What is WINUAE ? :laughing:
Title: Re: Edge Connectors
Post by: Iggy on September 28, 2016, 06:10:56 PM
Quote from: wawrzon;814521
the comunity faces revival currently thanks to propositions in what you call "legacy systems" sector. it is ppc focus that led to dimnishment all these years..


Yeah...because there are so many new legacy Amigas entering the market right now, right?

Outside of Jens proposal, what have you got? FPGAs?

Good luck with that.
I have my legacy hardware, but I'm not counting on it evolving too far in the future.

I may buy one of the Vampire2 boards for my A2000, but that is still going to be so much slower than my PPC hardware.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: kreciu on September 28, 2016, 06:59:49 PM
PPC on classic Amiga is quite expensive way of running ppc datatypes under ClassicOS. It is $800+ mp3 player or slow .jpg viewer :).

Yes, I know there is a Quake PPC...

I could get new PPC board for my classic for about $300 :)
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Iggy on September 28, 2016, 08:30:51 PM
Quote from: kreciu;814535
PPC on classic Amiga is quite expensive way of running ppc datatypes under ClassicOS. It is $800+ mp3 player or slow .jpg viewer :).

Yes, I know there is a Quake PPC...

I could get new PPC board for my classic for about $300 :)
 
 I'm not quite sure what you mean by the last line (is it missing an 'if'?), but yes, I agree that its a way to expensive way to expand an Amiga.
 
 One thing I do like about the fpga custom 68K approach is that the cpu doesn't have to be a perfect copy of the 68K cpu (especially the '040 and '60). So of the weirder incompatibilities (like the Zorro III bus and the '040s use of burst) can be ironed out.
 
 And fpgas could always lead to faster ASICs.
 
 PPC are better suited to OS4, MorphOS, Linux and other alternatives.
 
 And I can run quake (or better games) on those systems, or PCs.
 
 I like having alternatives, which is why I don't mind tweaking the sensibilities of the traditionalists.
 
 Its kind of like my being a registered Republican, but not being anywhere near dumb enough to vote for Trump.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: utri007 on September 28, 2016, 08:49:15 PM
I'm afraid that some bechmarks makes people to wait too much for Vampire performance. My bet is that real life performance is about a 100-120mhz 68060. It woun't be something like 300mhz 68060.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Iggy on September 28, 2016, 09:40:10 PM
Quote from: utri007;814538
I'm afraid that some bechmarks makes people to wait too much for Vampire performance. My bet is that real life performance is about a 100-120mhz 68060. It woun't be something like 300mhz 68060.

 Sounds about right. Maybe slightly faster, but not by too much.
 Unless the newer fpga is significantly faster than the one they have already shown.
 
 Saying its going to perform like a 300 MHz '060 is about as stupid as the AmigaWorld comments I saw forecasting Tabors performance exceeding a Quad G5.
 
 Things like that give unnaturally high expectations.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: kreciu on September 28, 2016, 11:07:01 PM
If I want raw speed of my Amiga I run UAE, problem is that there is no software I can use on this "Amiga" or real Amiga.

To play with Amiga hardware there is plenty parts, extension and combinations to keep me busy for some time. If (when?) I will get my PPC for A1200 for good price, I will play with it, but I don't really have to get it.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on September 28, 2016, 11:28:26 PM
Seems like folks would rather just bicker about the same old nonsense on this thread, but if anyone still following is actually interested in the Phase 5 "comeback", here's a screenshot of a couple interesting comments posted recently on their Facebook page (for the benefit of people who don't have FB):
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: paul1981 on September 29, 2016, 12:56:00 AM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;814547
Seems like folks would rather just bicker about the same old nonsense on this thread, but if anyone still following is actually interested in the Phase 5 "comeback", here's a screenshot of a couple interesting comments posted recently on their Facebook page (for the benefit of people who don't have FB):


It looks promising. :knuddel:
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Matt_H on September 29, 2016, 12:59:33 AM
@ Mike

Indeed, I don't know why we as a community can get so worked up about these things. Either one day we wake up and see that Amigakit has Blizzards in stock, or we don't. If so, hooray, if not, it's no different from today :)
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Iggy on September 29, 2016, 01:16:45 AM
Quote from: paul1981;814555
It looks promising. :knuddel:

Well, the 'product list' promises a lot anyway.

"Products

Cyberstorm PPC 604e
Cyberstorm MK3 68060
Cyberstorm MK2 68060
Cyberstorm MK1 68060
Cybervision PPC Permedia 2...
Blizzard 2604e PPC
Blizzard 2060 68060
Blizzard 2040 68040
Blizzard PPC 603e+
Blizzard 1260 68060
Blizzard 1260 II
Blizzard 1240
Blizzard 1240 II
Blizzard 1230
Blizzard 1230 II
Blizzard 1230 III
Blizzard 1230 IV
Blizzard 1220
Blizzard 1200/4/8
Blizzard SCSI Kit
BVision PPC Permedia 2
CyberVision 64 3D
CyberVision 64 Z3
Fastlane Z3
R2 GO MVP TMS320 Z3
G-Rex PCI 3000/4000
G-Rex PCI 4000T
G-Rex PCI 1200"



Hmm, seems to cover real Phase5 hardware, while the facebook page mentions schematics.
If they don't have the original board layouts, schematics won't provide them a lot of clues as to how to build these.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: slaapliedje on September 29, 2016, 03:17:02 AM
Is this thread why I am seeing a bunch of Cyberstorms showing up on eBay?  Would be awesome if they can build some new ones.  I also can't help but think that someone started this up as a money grab, since the vampire seems to be doing fairly well.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 29, 2016, 05:02:19 AM
It makes sense if someone can actually build them at reasonable prices.

The only reason their old cards go for $1000+ is scarcity.

We're still buying 030's just because they are available for purchase.

They don't strictly have to source enough 060s because even bare cards that can use your own 040 or 060 would still be huge sellers.

There are a ton of crippled A3640 systems out there that would get a big boost from the RAM and SCSI, not to mention the potential to use a GRex and maybe PPC.

I wish them all the luck in the world. If they ever come to market I'll be very interested in what they have to offer and at what price.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: midway on September 29, 2016, 06:37:42 AM
A bunch ? none here !
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: kreciu on September 29, 2016, 03:17:31 PM
One thing is clear. Without leadership and goal in development of AmigaOS, software and hardware for it NOTHING will "change". There is no particular goal in sight, there is only whole bunch of old Amiga users tweaking old systems with some sort of nostalgia that makes them do it.

Nothing wrong about it, but I'm quite sure many of you would like to see AmigaOS/hardware to develop into something more that just a hobby... but at the same time when new would come all this "classic" would be totally obsolete and it would end up the same as any 486DX or Mac Classic... in some way it is actually GOOD we don't have new hardware and software.

There are some hobby solutions like Vampire, ACA etc. and it is great for sure, but why PPC for classic Amiga's if there are (??) motherboards from AmigaOS 4.1 (much FASTER) and Classic can run FAST on PC?

It is like walking in circle or running after your own tail. Faster is better? Faster will not brining ANY new quality into Amiga environment, faster is actually available for Amiga for a loooong time.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: yssing on September 29, 2016, 09:24:07 PM
Quote from: kreciu;814596
One thing is clear. Without leadership and goal in development of AmigaOS, software and hardware for it NOTHING will "change". There is no particular goal in sight, there is only whole bunch of old Amiga users tweaking old systems with some sort of nostalgia that makes them do it.
.


What do you think A-Eon and Hyperion is doing?
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 29, 2016, 10:06:30 PM
Quote from: yssing;814608
What do you think A-Eon and Hyperion is doing?


Working on a platform I have no emotional attachment to.

The PPC systems are neither current nor retro, so there's not much interest from people like myself.

To me it's much more interesting to tweak old systems with some sort of nostalgia.

For those who want a PPC system, more power to them, I just wish that the people with the license to the OS cared about the same market I do, which is 68k.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: kreciu on September 30, 2016, 04:04:14 AM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;814611
Working on a platform I have no emotional attachment to.

The PPC systems are neither current nor retro, so there's not much interest from people like myself.
To me it's much more interesting to tweak old systems with some sort of nostalgia.

For those who want a PPC system, more power to them, I just wish that the people with the license to the OS cared about the same market I do, which is 68k.


I don't mind if it is 68k, PPC or... i486 ;). IMO problem (I expressed this once of twice ;) ) is not a lack of hardware. There is like few billion PC that can run AmigaOS3.1 and/or with 1000+ MIPS and... who cares?

Speed will not bring quality software. I tried AmigaOS4.1 on my PC and... I turned it on last time about 6 months ago. There is nothing I can do using AmigaOS. OK. I could post on this forum :P.

I have installed UAE (both versions) on PC and... basically there is no software I would/could use today, also system is WAAAAAAAY outdated.

Investing time and money to "develop" super outdated PPC motherboards that can run AmigaOS4.1 is IMO waste of money and there is NOTHING "special and Amiga like" in this new motherboards.

At this point of time we need... web browser, office package (must be compatible with MS Office). THEN we can start actually working on AmigaOS and even replace it in case of SOME of us, that don't need specific software.


At this point we need system and software that in some way will introduce something NEW and interesting to "market". If not my super old A1200 will be fine...

Considering that today people are sick and tired of MS collecting data from their keyboards... Linux "sucks" etc. and MacOS is good for "...". AmigaOS could be viable option.

Focus on development of AmigaOS and software, what hardware it will run? It will be a problem of future.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Iggy on September 30, 2016, 01:08:37 PM
@kreciu
I'm not sure what that comment had  to do with Phase5.

@Heiroglyph
Obviously a Phase5 PPC board would be retro, and if you (and 'people like you') don't want to move to something better, hey, good luck with that.
But that was the direction things evolved in.

Personally, IF these guys really have the talent to pull this off, eventually I'd like to see a better PPC board with something like a 1.4 GHz cpu.
It would require a lot of rework of the software though.
I'm not sure they are up to it.

As to software, learn to code.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: zylesea on September 30, 2016, 01:46:05 PM
Quote from: yssing;814608
What do you think A-Eon and Hyperion is doing?
Well, at least Hyperion are hibernating. They are definitely no option for a successful future. OS4 is pretty much a walking dead and the momentum came back to 68k recently.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Iggy on September 30, 2016, 02:20:36 PM
Quote from: zylesea;814642
Well, at least Hyperion are hibernating. They are definitely no option for a successful future. OS4 is pretty much a walking dead and the momentum came back to 68k recently.

Well, there have been developments on the OS4 front.
OpenGL ES support and Warp 3D Nova are pretty impressive.
Add this to the support for Radeon HD video cards and OS4 appears to have leapfrogged MorphOS in terms of video support.

However, all this development has occurred outside of Hyperion.

And everyone is waiting for Hyperion to finish ports to the X5000 and A1222.

This situation is a little foreboding.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 30, 2016, 03:18:30 PM
Quote from: Iggy;814640
@kreciu
Obviously a Phase5 PPC board would be retro, and if you (and 'people like you') don't want to move to something better, hey, good luck with that.
But that was the direction things evolved in.

Personally, IF these guys really have the talent to pull this off, eventually I'd like to see a better PPC board with something like a 1.4 GHz cpu.
It would require a lot of rework of the software though.
I'm not sure they are up to it.


You misunderstood. My comment was in reply to "What do you think A-Eon and Hyperion is doing?". Those companies aren't doing anything I'm interested in.

I think a new production of even the original PPC boards would be great since many people never had access to them and they make great additions to Classic systems.

Better is a relative term. Lately I don't even really use my 2GHz MorphOS machine I picked up for next to nothing. It's technically better in every way compared to my A2000 and A4000, but it gathers dust while my A2000 gets daily use just because it's fun to me.

Each to their own, that was just my answer to "What do you think A-Eon and Hyperion is doing?".
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Iggy on September 30, 2016, 03:52:43 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;814645
You misunderstood. My comment was in reply to "What do you think A-Eon and Hyperion is doing?". Those companies aren't doing anything I'm interested in.

I think a new production of even the original PPC boards would be great since many people never had access to them and they make great additions to Classic systems.

Better is a relative term. Lately I don't even really use my 2GHz MorphOS machine I picked up for next to nothing. It's technically better in every way compared to my A2000 and A4000, but it gathers dust while my A2000 gets daily use just because it's fun to me.

Each to their own, that was just my answer to "What do you think A-Eon and Hyperion is doing?".

Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Yeah, I'd agree that Hyperion appears to be doing almost nothing right now.
And while I'd like to buy an X5000, that was pretty much ready to go a while ago..
Further, you are right about NG software, there isn't a lot to use.

But A-eon appears to be trying to remedy things.

You know, instead of a new A1200 from Jens, I'd rather have a PCIe X1 plug in Amiga card for the AmigaOne or G5 PCIe Mac. Then we could really incorporate legacy software into the NG base.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 30, 2016, 04:20:29 PM
Quote from: Iggy;814646
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
You know, instead of a new A1200 from Jens, I'd rather have a PCIe X1 plug in Amiga card for the AmigaOne or G5 PCIe Mac. Then we could really incorporate legacy software into the NG base.


The problems there are cost, availability of chips or replacement FPGA cores and software support.

At that point a software emulation starts to look more viable and has no hardware cost attached and it really makes the decision harder to justify, especially for a commercial application.

With something like what P5 are hopefully proposing I really don't see a downside. It seems like a good small business venture.

There is clearly a market for the cards at any remotely sane price.

They are proven in the field. (assuming a decent run of cards)

And the market was never saturated with them, so there is demand.

The only remotely viable rival is the Vampire and those are not made for most desirable systems, the A1200 and A4000. Plus production on the v600 and v500 hasn't ramped up to meet demand yet.

I'm not saying the guy can pull it off, but I'm amazed someone hasn't revived and revised these cards already. It makes too much sense.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: kolla on September 30, 2016, 04:47:36 PM
Can I have stand alone boards, please? With lots of RAM. Preferably rack mountable :)

Where on earth will they source 060 chips from?
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on September 30, 2016, 04:56:14 PM
Quote from: kolla;814651
Where on earth will they source 060 chips from?


China?

:laughing:
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: wawrzon on September 30, 2016, 05:00:05 PM
Quote from: Iggy;814646

But A-eon appears to be trying to remedy things.


yes. i think it alas boils down to exactly and only this. it looks very much like defensive tactics trying to stuff one hole and even before its done move to another one while water is flooding the ship through hundred others. in addition to this, they are not even an experienced shipmate but a prosperous and romantically motivated passenger trying to save the vessel, while the captain and at least most part of the crew either escaped or lay drunk in the cabins, after they locked everybody else away from the machine room.

in comparison auch an energetic straightforward approach like the onne being displayed by apollo/vampire team appears, no matter all the mistakes underway, to be a future proof and compentent wholesale strategy..

Quote

You know, instead of a new A1200 from Jens, I'd rather have a PCIe X1 plug in Amiga card for the AmigaOne or G5 PCIe Mac. Then we could really incorporate legacy software into the NG base.


might be of interest for some, but since it doesnt offer much beyond uae, even for underpowerden ppc hardware, no doubt it would be another failure investment rejected by majority. amiga scene needs a common ground, a common denominator, and this has been proven by popularity of certain projects, especially lately.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 30, 2016, 05:51:41 PM
Quote from: kolla;814651

Where on earth will they source 060 chips from?


As I said before, it doesn't really matter from a business perspective.

If they can get 060's all the better, but there's also market for better 040 boards and those cards are jumperable for either CPU so they have options.

They could still sell a lot of CPU-less boards and leave that up to the user. Either dig up a used 060 or 040 somewhere or move it from their older CPU card if they have one.

A Cyberstorm PPC for example would be a great upgrade over even a Cyberstorm Mk2 060 with the SCSI module, not to mention the benefits of moving your 040 from an A3640 to it.

We haven't even mentioned the A2000 boards, but that would be a very worthwhile upgrade for most A2000 owners even if they had to source a CPU.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Iggy on September 30, 2016, 05:57:42 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;814654
As I said before, it doesn't really matter from a business perspective.

If they can get 060's all the better, but there's also market for better 040 boards and those cards are jumperable for either CPU so they have options.

They could still sell a lot of CPU-less boards and leave that up to the user. Either dig up a used 060 or 040 somewhere or move it from their older CPU card if they have one.

A Cyberstorm PPC for example would be a great upgrade over even a Cyberstorm Mk2 060 with the SCSI module, not to mention the benefits of moving your 040 from an A3640 to it.

We haven't even mentioned the A2000 boards, but that would be a very worthwhile upgrade for most A2000 owners even if they had to source a CPU.

I have an A2000 here, so I'm with you on that.

@warzon

 
Quote
amiga scene needs a common ground, a common denominator, and this has  been proven by popularity of certain projects, especially lately.

Not if it means focusing solely on legacy hardware. The limitations of the Amiga chipset can't be overcome without redesign, and no one if trying that yet.

You focus on what you want, I'm supporting multiple alternatives.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: yssing on September 30, 2016, 07:33:48 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;814645
You misunderstood. My comment was in reply to "What do you think A-Eon and Hyperion is doing?". Those companies aren't doing anything I'm interested in.
I really respect that position. Personally I am more interested in AOS4.x and its hardware. However if the new Phase5 could make a new batch of PPCcards for the classic I would be very interested.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 30, 2016, 07:36:51 PM
Quote from: yssing;814657
I really respect that position. Personally I am more interested in AOS4.x and its hardware. However if the new Phase5 could make a new batch of PPCcards for the classic I would be very interested.


Agreed. I can respect your interest without sharing it as well.

We should just be glad there is a potential overlap so that some advances can help us both.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: eliyahu on September 30, 2016, 08:06:38 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;814658
Agreed. I can respect your interest without sharing it as well.

We should just be glad there is a potential overlap so that some advances can help us both.

that's exactly the sort of sentiment that, if it catches on, will make the online amiga community a much more enjoyable place in which to participate. :)

-- eliyahu
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 30, 2016, 08:16:43 PM
Quote from: eliyahu;814659
that's exactly the sort of sentiment that, if it catches on, will make the online amiga community a much more enjoyable place in which to participate. :)

-- eliyahu


Now lets all hold hands and sing Kumbaya... :angel:

We would all get a lot more done if we would just focus on sharing advances rather than acting like one "camp" somehow hurts the other.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: wawrzon on September 30, 2016, 08:25:14 PM
Quote from: Iggy;814655
I have an A2000 here, so I'm with you on that.

@warzon

 

Not if it means focusing solely on legacy hardware. The limitations of the Amiga chipset can't be overcome without redesign, and no one if trying that yet.

You focus on what you want, I'm supporting multiple alternatives.


As you may observe exactly that is happening. The so called legacy amiga hardware becomes redesigned removing its limitations. And there are multiple emerging options. As for alternatives i support them too in form of aros. Im rather indifferent to morphos, since i have never used it and im critical towards os4 since i have used it. I dont think we have a duty to support everything thrown at us unregarded the actual preferences.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Iggy on September 30, 2016, 08:31:25 PM
Quote from: wawrzon;814663
As you may observe exactly that is happening. The so called legacy amiga hardware becomes redesigned removing its limitations. And there are multiple emerging options. As for alternatives i support them too in form of aros. Im rather indifferent to morphos, since i have never used it and im critical towards os4 since i have used it. I dont think we have a duty to support everything thrown at us unregarded the actual preferences.

Of course not, I haven't used Os4, but may get some exposure to it by buying an X5000.
Although I still doubt that will sway me much.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: wawrzon on September 30, 2016, 09:14:55 PM
Quote from: Iggy;814664
Of course not, I haven't used Os4, but may get some exposure to it by buying an X5000.
Although i still doubt that will sway me much.


Perhaps you should though first give it a try under emulation. Especially that you tend to emotionality. Simply to avoid what happened to vox. ;)
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Iggy on September 30, 2016, 09:22:04 PM
Quote from: wawrzon;814668
Perhaps you should though first give it a try under emulation. Especially that you tend to emotionality. Simply to avoid what happened to vox. ;)

WTF DO YOU MEAN BY THAT!:angry:

Just kidding.:hammer:

No, I don't see the point in emulating an Amiga equipped with a PPC card.

And I'm buying the X5000 to run MorphOS, so I'll have a copy of OS4 on hand anyway.

Might as well use it in the best environment I can.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: wawrzon on October 01, 2016, 12:58:05 AM
Quote from: Iggy;814671
WTF DO YOU MEAN BY THAT!:angry:

Just kidding.:hammer:

No, I don't see the point in emulating an Amiga equipped with a PPC card.

And I'm buying the X5000 to run MorphOS, so I'll have a copy of OS4 on hand anyway.

Might as well use it in the best environment I can.


okay.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Jose on October 02, 2016, 12:02:06 AM
To me the interest would be having Classic and NG in one machine but if they're gonna use only old processors in old design I don't think it's worth it. They should update the boards with faster processors, i.e. remember the Cyberstorm PPC G4's that were going to be produced and where some of us got burned with ? A dual G4 at 1.7Ghz with an Apollo core for the A4000, with 4GB ram. NOw that would be cool. Otheriwse you might as well get one of the NG systems and keep using your Classic for some games and apps.
Just my half cent ....:)
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: slaapliedje on October 02, 2016, 04:59:06 AM
I think this is great, I always wanted a PPC in my Amiga, and I already have a copy of OS4 sitting around.  It certainly feels nice to have a system where you just install it and it's very nice and a bit more modern feeling than dealing with OS3.9, BB1-4, then the plethora of other third party utilities you have to slap onto it to make it.. oddly more like OS4 is.

But (of course there is a but) at the same time tweaking the OS to our hearts content is part of the Amiga charm, so why would we want a shiny out of the box experience?  I figure if I got a PPC, I'd still get a dual set up, OS4 / OS3.9 + Amikit for Real.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: yssing on October 02, 2016, 12:16:43 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;814658
Agreed. I can respect your interest without sharing it as well.

We should just be glad there is a potential overlap so that some advances can help us both.
That is absolutely true.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: skolman on October 03, 2016, 03:22:54 AM
(http://i66.tinypic.com/30t0uue.jpg)
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: CodePoet on October 03, 2016, 05:02:24 AM
Well, isn't this getting interesting!
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: ferrellsl on October 03, 2016, 05:50:08 AM
I'm calling BS on this.  If this was real, then why take the time to white out any readable text and darken the image?  I've seen more believable images of Big Foot.  And these accelerators need to be stuffed into 1.5 meter long boxes?
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on October 03, 2016, 06:26:33 AM
Quote from: ferrellsl;814762
I'm calling BS on this.  If this was real, then why take the time to white out any readable text and darken the image?  I've seen more believable images of Big Foot.  And these accelerators need to be stuffed into 1.5 meter long boxes?

Or you could, you know, just go on Facebook, where there's a lot more pictures and info.  :lol:  I dunno, maybe those are 2060's in the boxes?

Fingers crossed, we're getting a lot more info out of this company than we did other vapor products over the years!
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: CodePoet on October 03, 2016, 06:44:53 AM
Quote from: ferrellsl;814762
I'm calling BS on this.  If this was real, then why take the time to white out any readable text and darken the image?  I've seen more believable images of Big Foot.  And these accelerators need to be stuffed into 1.5 meter long boxes?


The boxes appear to be for the connectors and not the accelerators; We've ordered DIN41612 connectors from DigiKey that came packaged in similar boxes
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: ferrellsl on October 03, 2016, 07:10:25 AM
Quote from: CodePoet;814765
The boxes appear to be for the connectors and not the accelerators; We've ordered DIN41612 connectors from DigiKey that came packaged in similar boxes


I live in AZ and have some beach-front property that I'll sell you too.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: CodePoet on October 03, 2016, 08:55:24 AM
Quote from: ferrellsl;814766
I live in AZ and have some beach-front property that I'll sell you too.

I'm unsure what you're trying to imply here, are you trying to say that if I believe they're connectors, you have a bridge to sell me?

The boxes are indeed for connectors, and what more, the pin pitch and style (based on the part number on the box) match those of the A1200 expansion slot. They're a part series that appear to be made by Adamtec

Here is a PDF datasheet for the part printed on the box (prefix guesssed): http://www.admatec.ch/download.php?file=kel/half_pitch_connectors_8800_series/8806_8807_8816_8817_series.pdf

Compare that to the high resolution dimensioned photo of the A1200 expansion slot on Kipper2k's site: http://kipper2k.com/a1200_expansion_slot.jpg

I haven't had a chance to compare them completely as I'm on break at work, but there may be something to this.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: ferrellsl on October 03, 2016, 09:22:20 AM
Quote from: CodePoet;814767
I'm unsure what you're trying to imply here, are you trying to say that if I believe they're connectors, you have a bridge to sell me?

The boxes are indeed for connectors, and what more, the pin pitch and style (based on the part number on the box) match those of the A1200 expansion slot. They're a part series that appear to be made by Adamtec

Here is a PDF datasheet for the part printed on the box (prefix guesssed): http://www.admatec.ch/download.php?file=kel/half_pitch_connectors_8800_series/8806_8807_8816_8817_series.pdf

Compare that to the high resolution dimensioned photo of the A1200 expansion slot on Kipper2k's site: http://kipper2k.com/a1200_expansion_slot.jpg


I haven't had a chance to compare them completely as I'm on break at work, but there may be something to this.


AZ is a landlocked desert.  No oceans here, hence no beach-front properties either.

A picture of some accelerators from circa 1990 sitting in front of some cardboard boxes with the labels blanked out and some old schematics and pics from Kipper's site does not equal an available product.

So you want us to assume that this "new" Phase 5 somehow found a truckload of NOS 680x0 or PPC CPUs and is going to make a production run of new accelerators for a market of maybe 400 users at best?  Even if this is true, the final price will be absolutely ridiculously high.  And why bother when I can buy a Vampire for a reasonable price that will run circles around any stock 680x0 CPU and compete quite nicely with some PPC CPUs?  ACK Controls played this same game by announcing a PPC accelerator back around 2007 with their PowerVixxen.  Didn't happen then with a CPU that WAS in production, and it won't happen now with CPUs that have long been out of production unless Phase 5 bribes Jens out of his stash of CPUs.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-46974.html
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: yssing on October 03, 2016, 12:52:04 PM
Why not just embrase it, we are used to seeing things not happening. But if you try to be positive, rather than negative, life in general will be a bit easier.
If it does not happen, then so be it, but at least we haven't lost anything.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Heiroglyph on October 03, 2016, 03:03:59 PM
Quote from: CodePoet;814765
The boxes appear to be for the connectors and not the accelerators; We've ordered DIN41612 connectors from DigiKey that came packaged in similar boxes


I'm pretty sure you're exactly right. it does say RoHS parts in the caption after all.

I can only assume that the darkening was trying to be a marketing tease and maybe an attempt to make the part numbers a bit less visible.

I understand trying to not get our hopes up, but the outright disdain some people have for this guy is amazing.

Let him prove himself or not.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: SnkBitten on October 03, 2016, 03:15:18 PM
The images aren't darkened on Facebook.

[ATTACH]5358[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]5357[/ATTACH]
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Iggy on October 03, 2016, 05:24:05 PM
Quote from: SnkBitten;814776
The images aren't darkened on Facebook.

[ATTACH]5358[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]5357[/ATTACH]

Good one. The cards look old, but those boxes were just shipped.
So it is possible that they ordered the connectors.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Heiroglyph on October 03, 2016, 06:13:07 PM
I still haven't seen any indication that he's not for real.

I'm pretty excited to think I might be able to buy a brand new Cyberstorm with UW SCSI for my 4000 without taking out a second mortgage. Thinking that I could replace my Mediator with a GRex would be too amazing.

Hopefully he'll make enough money to do some updates to the design, but if not it would still be nice to have more units of the old design available.

I'm not even thinking of big updates like SATA, but maybe hardware that is more tolerant of overclocking, maybe includes a bit more and faster RAM directly on the board, faster PPC, etc. Just things that weren't available at the time but are now relatively cheap.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: psxphill on October 03, 2016, 06:52:22 PM
Quote from: ferrellsl;814768
So you want us to assume that this "new" Phase 5 somehow found a truckload of NOS 680x0 or PPC CPUs and is going to make a production run of new accelerators for a market of maybe 400 users at best?

I'm not assuming they have any 680x0 or ppc cpu's, they may be selling bare boards for all I know.

Or the videos of the component placement could be a smokescreen and they have an fpga/arm/atom board on the way.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on October 03, 2016, 07:09:11 PM
Quote from: ferrellsl;814768
And why bother when I can buy a Vampire for a reasonable price that will run circles around any stock 680x0 CPU and compete quite nicely with some PPC CPUs?

As has already been mentioned 9837593475 times, there's no Vampire accelerators available for A1200's or A4000's, which is the target market for these new cards (plus the 2060's, which would be welcome considering how many A2000's still show up on ebay).
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: wawrzon on October 03, 2016, 07:17:33 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;814786
there's no Vampire accelerators available for A1200's or A4000's


then try to be just, because neither are the cards here in question here avaliable as of today. they are announced, thats all, same as vampire for a1200 for now. however in the contrary to vampire, where we are confronted with the honest communication as they progress, and where is a dependable track of record of actual delivery, all ive seen from this project are some animations and cardboard boxes along with some old accellerator boards cards in front of them.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Iggy on October 03, 2016, 07:19:13 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;814786
As has already been mentioned 9837593475 times, there's no Vampire accelerators available for A1200's or A4000's, which is the target market for these new cards (plus the 2060's, which would be welcome considering how many A2000's still show up on ebay).

I wouldn't mind a 2060.
And I'm not convinced that the Vampire2 for the A2000 would be that much faster.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: ferrellsl on October 03, 2016, 07:20:28 PM
Quote from: psxphill;814785
I'm not assuming they have any 680x0 or ppc cpu's, they may be selling bare boards for all I know.

Or the videos of the component placement could be a smokescreen and they have an fpga/arm/atom board on the way.



That's an even worse scenario.  If Phase 5 is releasing bare boards as a product, how many Amiga users actually have the skills and equipment needed to finish their boards let alone have the components and CPUs to get them running?
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: ferrellsl on October 03, 2016, 07:28:23 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;814786
As has already been mentioned 9837593475 times, there's no Vampire accelerators available for A1200's or A4000's, which is the target market for these new cards (plus the 2060's, which would be welcome considering how many A2000's still show up on ebay).


I never mentioned the A1200 or A4000, you did.  I'm waiting for the standalone Vampire anyway.  It will run rings around any Phase 5 product, real or imagined.

Go ahead a drool over a shady Facebook page filled with images from 1991.  This bad joke will end just as the one created by ACK Controls in 2007 did.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: wawrzon on October 03, 2016, 07:35:57 PM
Quote from: ferrellsl;814790
This bad joke will end just as the one created by ACK Controls in 2007 did.


funny enough, who knows, maybe this ack thing has been for real, at least at the drawing board;)..
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: ferrellsl on October 03, 2016, 07:44:44 PM
Quote from: SnkBitten;814776
The images aren't darkened on Facebook.

[ATTACH]5358[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]5357[/ATTACH]

Only on Amiga.org do people cream their pants over pics of cardboard boxes with 25 year old accelerators parked in front of them....

OK, so the pics are lighter on Facebook.  They still have the text blocked out and could have been pulled from any dust bin or dumpster.  And if this new Phase 5 was legit, then why not actually have a real web site with pricing and other relevant info instead of just a dead-end homepage with a logo and an address?  Why all the secrecy?

I've seen more than my fair share of scams, failed projects, and twisted jokes on this site to know another one when I see it....ACK Controls, ARIX, etc.....now this "new" Phase 5.

I hope I'm wrong but the past makes me very cynical.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Heiroglyph on October 03, 2016, 07:46:52 PM
Quote from: ferrellsl;814789
That's an even worse scenario.  If Phase 5 is releasing bare boards as a product, how many Amiga users actually have the skills and equipment needed to finish their boards let alone have the components and CPUs to get them running?


I'm 99% sure he meant boards without the CPU plugged in, not a PCB with no components.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: psxphill on October 03, 2016, 08:34:06 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;814794
I'm 99% sure he meant boards without the CPU plugged in, not a PCB with no components.


Er yeah, sorry I thought that was kinda obvious. But predicting what the announcement will be is pointless.

Then you can decide whether its something you want or not. If it's a run of 030 boards then I won't be buying one, but I'm not going to criticise them for it.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on October 03, 2016, 09:32:13 PM
Quote from: ferrellsl;814793
And if this new Phase 5 was legit, then why not actually have a real web site with pricing and other relevant info instead of just a dead-end homepage with a logo and an address?  Why all the secrecy?

If you want to see their web site done sooner, why not volunteer your services to help create it?  :laughing:
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Heiroglyph on October 03, 2016, 09:45:46 PM
Until they have something to sell, who really cares?

If I was making an Amiga product, I would keep it secret until it was physically shipped to resellers or I was ready to ship to end users at that very moment.

The only thing you get for pre-announcements in this community is sh!t on.

Why they opened their mouth is a mystery to me, it leads to nothing but angry forum threads.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: zipper on October 03, 2016, 10:39:21 PM
That was the way Prometheus PCI card was marketed
 and I ordered it at once.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: ferrellsl on October 03, 2016, 10:45:25 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;814798
If you want to see their web site done sooner, why not volunteer your services to help create it?  :laughing:



I have my own legitimate web site with real and available products to maintain at  http://lidarwidgets.com

And the new Phase 5 says they've been in business since April of this year but can't get past a dead-end homepage?  If that's the best they can do in 7 months, then they need more help than I can give them anyway.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Heiroglyph on October 03, 2016, 10:49:50 PM
I'd rather they worked on the product myself.

We have to face it, we don't have business people running these companies anymore. They will make PR blunders and bad decisions like these.

He was probably just a guy like one of us, excited to tell the community what he's working on, but not that good at running the marketing side of a business.

Most people with business sense know not to be in this market at all.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: wawrzon on October 03, 2016, 10:49:58 PM
keeping secret isnt necessary. honest communication will be enough, even some exaggeration will go through. it has been proven lately. but publicity stunts will make people rather cautious. except for die hard cheerlanders, of course.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Heiroglyph on October 03, 2016, 10:53:04 PM
Quote from: wawrzon;814803
keeping secret isnt necessary. honest communication will be enough, even some exaggeration will go through. it has been proven lately. but publicity stunts will make people rather cautious. except for die hard cheerlanders, of course.

I disagree. You could have the most perfect widget in the world and some of this community would scream and yell about how horrible it is and compare the creator to Hitler.

You pretty much have to come out complete with hardware and software to back it up to avoid as much speculation as possible.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Bennymee on October 03, 2016, 11:36:13 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;814802
I'd rather they worked on the product myself.

We have to face it, we don't have business people running these companies anymore. They will make PR blunders and bad decisions like these.

He was probably just a guy like one of us, excited to tell the community what he's working on, but not that good at running the marketing side of a business.

Most people with business sense know not to be in this market at all.


Was the guy doing this not in the marketing department of formerly phase 5 ?

If so, I would be more worried about the technology then the pr this time.

  ;))
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: yssing on October 03, 2016, 11:38:21 PM
Quote from: ferrellsl;814793

I've seen more than my fair share of scams, failed projects, and twisted jokes on this site to know another one when I see it....ACK Controls, ARIX, etc.....now this "new" Phase 5.

I hope I'm wrong but the past makes me very cynical.

No one is asking for any money, and even if some one was asking for money, no one have give any money away.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: wawrzon on October 03, 2016, 11:39:36 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;814804
I disagree. You could have the most perfect widget in the world and some of this community would scream and yell about how horrible it is and compare the creator to Hitler.

You pretty much have to come out complete with hardware and software to back it up to avoid as much speculation as possible.


no. despite the degenerated image the community will likely not react reasonably to a reasonable offer. might sound like a conspiracy theory, while such an offer has usually been surpressed, invoking an expectation that i will be met with resistance, distrust and badmouthing anyway, by so called "usual suspects" (representing simply many if not everybody who either way doesnt care or dare not speak out anymore).

however some not very promissing iniatives went out under the radar so far, till it was too late. apollo/vampire sounds like an  example. am i right?
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Heiroglyph on October 04, 2016, 12:40:04 AM
Quote from: wawrzon;814811
no. despite the degenerated image the community will likely not react reasonably to a reasonable offer. might sound like a conspiracy theory, while such an offer has usually been surpressed, invoking an expectation that i will be met with resistance, distrust and badmouthing anyway, by so called "usual suspects" (representing simply many if not everybody who either way doesnt care or dare not speak out anymore).

however some not very promissing iniatives went out under the radar so far, till it was too late. apollo/vampire sounds like an  example. am i right?


I'm not sure I understood your reply exactly.

Vampire is one that I would hold up as a good example of not saying a word until completion. Every great step they make is rewarded with about 50/50 congratulations and complaints of sill missing features. Well, duh, it's not finished.

I'd also say that there were a lot of mistakes due to it being represented publicly by engineer enthusiasts rather than business people. Their hearts were in the right place, but mistakes were made.

Our community overall is hard on anyone so IMHO, it's better to not engage us until you absolutely can't help it.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: wawrzon on October 04, 2016, 01:29:30 AM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;814815
I'm not sure I understood your reply exactly.

Vampire is one that I would hold up as a good example of not saying a word until completion.


really??? i must be missing something in your logic. maybe our resemblance is different..

lets review, the natami approach, majsta going around asking for guidance, first vampire version, work in progress, kind of. tg68 core adoptation, 030/25 speeds. cheap. many bought only to find it discontinued in support after some time and arguably for a good reason. as much as none really complained. at least almost none of the customers.

okay, igor had survived some hard times but if from anyone then from other developers. then apollo team joined in or vice versa.

in my book it is nothing like a closed, behind the scenes apporach. on the contrary. you can simply chip in on irc and be invited to contribute. and it is in my book the right spirit.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Heiroglyph on October 04, 2016, 01:57:09 AM
Quote from: wawrzon;814817
really??? i must be missing something in your logic. maybe our resemblance is different..

lets review, the natami approach, majsta going around asking for guidance, first vampire version, work in progress, kind of. tg68 core adoptation, 030/25 speeds. cheap. many bought only to find it discontinued in support after some time and arguably for a good reason. as much as none really complained. at least almost none of the customers.

okay, igor had survived some hard times but if from anyone then from other developers. then apollo team joined in or vice versa.

in my book it is nothing like a closed, behind the scenes apporach. on the contrary. you can simply chip in on irc and be invited to contribute. and it is in my book the right spirit.


I was speaking more to the Apollo/v2 versions.

The outright hatred shown because the work-in-progress core doesn't have an FPU yet gets pretty bad, not to mention the MMU.

As for the business side, Igor did everything humanly possible to lower the cost per unit but they finally realized that even making no profit and doing all the the labor themselves for "free", they couldn't hit the price they had put on the developer v500 boards and meet demand.

Once one of the dev boards (that were sold at or below cost so encourage development help BTW) went on ebay for big bucks, they started doing that themselves and stopped the loose flow of developer boards.

They also finally made the decision to do what they should have done in the first place and actually price the boards realistically and pay to have them produced so that they could meet demand.

Unfortunately the PR mistake was already made. Had they priced higher to begin with (both dev boards and projected final price) there would have been less flack thrown back at them as people probably wouldn't have balked at the new price considering what you get in comparison to other somewhat comparable CPU cards.

I'm not sure if you've been following those types of threads (some of which get quickly closed or deleted) but it's not pretty. Especially when you consider they were doing their best to help the community and simply weren't good with business and marketing.

Full disclosure, I'm helping them finish their SD card driver for free and it will be open source. I bought my v500 like anyone else just before the price change.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: QuikSanz on October 04, 2016, 02:57:31 AM
@Heiroglyph,

I'm happy with this project and hope it evolves. Love to have one in my A2000.

Chris

Apollo/v2 that is.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: psxphill on October 04, 2016, 07:47:52 AM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;814818
The outright hatred shown because the work-in-progress core doesn't have an FPU yet gets pretty bad, not to mention the MMU.

There is no hatred pointed at Apollo. It started as disappointment that Gunnar repeatedly said that he had no intention of doing a compatible FPU and MMU & instead worked on MMX. It has only got heated because the fan boi's validate Gunnar's decision by saying they don't want an FPU or MMU anyway and anyone that does should shut up and go away (the "I'm awesome, why could you possibly want to run different software than me unless you suck" argument).

The price hike was bad PR, however if it had coincided with the boards being available then it would have been fine. i.e. You pay a bit more and you get it now. The real issue is that people don't know whether the price will rise again before the boards are available and there are boards going up on ebay and selling for much higher prices. It's starting to look like the Bitcoin Mining ASIC fiasco (butterflylabs et al).
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Heiroglyph on October 04, 2016, 08:01:49 AM
Quote from: psxphill;814823
There is no hatred pointed at Apollo. It started as disappointment that Gunnar repeatedly said that he had no intention of doing a compatible FPU and MMU & instead worked on MMX. It has only got heated because the fan boi's validate Gunnar's decision by saying they don't want an FPU or MMU anyway and anyone that does should shut up and go away (the "I'm awesome, why could you possibly want to run different software than me unless you suck" argument).


I don't intend to derail the thread, but you can see where this validates my argument of silence until completion and not having the enthusiasts/engineers as your only PR people.

Either it would have those features completed on release or it would release as an EC or LC type CPU. No discussion, this is the product, buy it or don't. If sales aren't good because of it or there is enough feedback, maybe add the feature(s) in the next revision.

As much as I've held against them, I think Elbox might have the right strategy in releasing product and staying out of sight.

Compared to most Amiga companies they seem to have far less drama associated with them, at least since they stopped responding in public. Back when they did speak publicly they were nothing but drama.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: kolla on October 04, 2016, 08:47:17 AM
There is also a difference between releasing such a product to developers, and releasing it for end-users, though in this crowd it is hard to tell them apart :)
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: kolla on October 04, 2016, 08:49:23 AM
Anyhow, people should relax and stop caring so much about everything Amiga, it is just an old computer. Kipper is doing the right thing and quitting when it no longer is fun.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: psxphill on October 04, 2016, 10:54:27 AM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;814824
No discussion, this is the product, buy it or don't.

Nobody would be that honest, getting people on the hook with vague promises of future updates is too common.

You do need someone that is prepared to tell the engineers to suck it up and develop the features that the customers want once in a while though. Even if it's only a small number of customers, every single one of them is a sale. Unconstrained development by engineers was what killed the Natami.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: vxm on October 04, 2016, 11:43:36 AM
Quote from: psxphill;814834
Unconstrained development by engineers was what killed the Natami.
How did you come to this assertion?
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: wawrzon on October 04, 2016, 11:53:00 AM
@heiroglyph

no, i cannot confirm your position. i see no hatred towards apollo team. i see some negative and critical comments and thnere always has been some. but, first of all, it there werent any, one would really have to ask themselves, whats wrong..
secondly the negative/critical feedback and discussion may not have intentionally led to, but (in the end constructively) accompanied in parallel the development of the project.

neither i see the project being damaged by the price discussion or inavailablility. on the contrary. people welcomed the adjustments being communicated to them reasonably well. what concerns igor operating initially at a loss, it accidentally reminds of sort of commercial strategy, when initially introducing a product. without that low price there might be less early adopters, less general tension and a´lso less people joinging their community or the project as such.

all in all, the current may look a bit chaotic, but its there and the circumstances only make it sympathetic. i dont see any, really any, critical failures on part of apollo/vampire initiative.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: psxphill on October 04, 2016, 03:14:45 PM
Quote from: vxm;814835
How did you come to this assertion?


What was visible from the outside and what was said by those involved.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: vxm on October 04, 2016, 03:52:54 PM
The question was not about what you have seen or heard, everyone sees and hears the same things but comprehension is subjective. The question was about your intellectual approach. That said, do not answer, we are off topic.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: LoadWB on October 05, 2016, 02:43:32 AM
Just out of curiosity, as I might have missed it among all the tripe: for those not on Facebook is there an official website?  Could we possibly have a thread about these developments which does not have a signal-to-noise ratio similar to that of a symphony of five year-olds banging instruments on chairs?
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: SnkBitten on October 05, 2016, 03:50:22 AM
Quote from: LoadWB;814871
Just out of curiosity, as I might have missed it among all the tripe: for those not on Facebook is there an official website?  Could we possibly have a thread about these developments which does not have a signal-to-noise ratio similar to that of a symphony of five year-olds banging instruments on chairs?


Nothing yet on their web page.

http://www.p-5.eu/
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: midway on October 12, 2016, 06:25:05 PM
Lets wait and see. I have high hopes of getting a Blizzard 2060 and maybe a 1260 :)
 would even pay close to the price they originally sold for
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Akiko on October 12, 2016, 07:08:20 PM
Quote from: kolla;814830
Kipper is doing the right thing and quitting when it no longer is fun.


When did he say that?
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on October 12, 2016, 07:13:59 PM
Quote from: Akiko;815180
When did he say that?

Three weeks ago?  It was posted publicly all over Facebook and other forums.  I know I personally copied & pasted his post into that looong thread on this site about the Vampire accelerators.  You can probably find it there.  ;)
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: amyren on June 20, 2017, 10:41:21 AM
I have no idea if this is real or not, but if it is a joke they have put some effort into it.
From the images you can see the print on the PCB, "Blizzard PPC 2 (C) 2017 phase 5 digital products"
This was posted at 22. may, and it says that they should have some major news about this in june.

http://www.generationamiga.com/2017/05/31/phase-5-released-new-photos-of-new-upcoming-blizzard-powerpc-accelerator/
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: BSzili on June 20, 2017, 11:18:12 AM
I wouldn't call it a joke either, but there is a lot of hubris. Blank PCBs aren't that much if you factor in the rest that is needed to manufacture functional cards. He first showed the PCBs in February, not much happened since. We will see what revelations are coming this month.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Vlabguy1 on June 20, 2017, 11:57:30 PM
Quote from: BSzili;827367
I wouldn't call it a joke either, but there is a lot of hubris. Blank PCBs aren't that much if you factor in the rest that is needed to manufacture functional cards. He first showed the PCBs in February, not much happened since. We will see what revelations are coming this month.


If they need someone to populate the boards ..they should hit me up..!!
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Roysters on December 12, 2017, 08:24:42 PM
I'm a nobody and know nothing, bought my A500 in the early 90's. Now just bought an A2000 and kitted it with a A2091, hard drive and Apollo 2030 ( it all works too :) )

All I can say is I am excited there is NEW !!!! kit coming out for my favourite computer.  

I applaud their efforts and truly hope it all comes to fruition.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on December 12, 2017, 08:33:09 PM
Quote from: Roysters;834060
I'm a nobody and know nothing, bought my A500 in the early 90's. Now just bought an A2000 and kitted it with a A2091, hard drive and Apollo 2030 ( it all works too :) )

All I can say is I am excited there is NEW !!!! kit coming out for my favourite computer.  

I applaud their efforts and truly hope it all comes to fruition.

There is new kit coming out for your Amiga computer on an almost daily basis, but based on the 1000x of posts about this "new" company already, it won't be from these guys. :laughing:
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: F1Lupo on December 12, 2017, 09:52:50 PM
@ Roysters

welcome aboard:drink: honestly all Amiga users want any new company/ individual investing time/ money on our favourite computer/OS to do well in todays economy but the many empty promises from 'some' have left a few of us jaded to say the least
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Chucky on December 13, 2017, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: Vlabguy1;827383
If they need someone to populate the boards ..they should hit me up..!!

Well I have tried to populate one of those boards (having 2)

but failed due to the fact that those boards totally lacks any ground.

and I guess that's why we never have seen any booting prototype. they simply will not work.

a complete writeup etc available at: http://wordpress.hertell.nu/?p=562 (http://wordpress.hertell.nu/?p=562)



IF Anyone actually missed this!
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: soviet on December 13, 2017, 12:19:33 PM
Owned a cyberstorm mk2 and sold it years ago, phase V used to make the best amiga accelerators.
So i think that was so cool that phase 5 could return but when asked on the facebook page for a video or something showing that this was the real deal the guy just kicked me from the group.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: F1Lupo on December 13, 2017, 11:30:33 PM
Quote from: Chucky;834071
Well I have tried to populate one of those boards (having 2)

but failed due to the fact that those boards totally lacks any ground.

and I guess that's why we never have seen any booting prototype. they simply will not work.

a complete writeup etc available at: http://wordpress.hertell.nu/?p=562

IF Anyone actually missed this!


I did miss it so thanks for posting and honestly your findings didn't surprise me at this stage though I still hope that new Phase 5 boards get released for those that didn't get them first time around or for the many that sold them and desperately want them back :-) personally I still have my oriignal Cyberstorm MKIII and absolutely nothing or no one will pry it from my A4000:hammer:
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: djomre on December 14, 2017, 12:59:24 AM
Quote from: klx300r;834084
...or for the many that sold them and desperately want them them back..:


I’m in that club.  :hammer:
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Chucky on December 14, 2017, 06:16:20 AM
Quote from: klx300r;834084
I did miss it so thanks for posting and honestly your findings didn't surprise me at this stage though I still hope that new Phase 5 boards get released for those that didn't get them first time around or for the many that sold them and desperately want them back :-) personally I still have my oriignal Cyberstorm MKIII and absolutely nothing or no one will pry it from my A4000:hammer:


Yeah it would be great..  but sorry this will not happen with the current holder of the data.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: psxphill on December 14, 2017, 09:16:17 AM
Quote from: Chucky;834094
Yeah it would be great..  but sorry this will not happen with the current holder of the data.

I accept what you're saying and why you're saying it, but honestly It's hard to predict.

It could easily be that between him and the manufacturer they screwed up the ground plane and the guy is too proud to accept it. That doesn't mean that he won't privately have taken you seriously. Or even if he didn't, then he'll figure it out soon enough when someone else tells him the same thing.

It's only a real problem if they don't have the ground plane layout at all.

Of course, people should be wary of putting money into any scheme like this. It's still too early.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: Chucky on December 14, 2017, 10:54:36 AM
he have been going on for 2 years.  he had aprox 1 year to assembly prototypes, he accuse ME of damagin the board something that is IMPOSSIBLE.
just all of this all points to: he doesn't have the knowledge needed to pull this off.

remenber.. ONE person. handling ALL!  managment, distribution, support etc of Phase5 TOTAL productline, while he can't even do a simple thing as prove me wrong by grabbing a 10eur crappy multimeter and show.  

or actually go to the A32 in time and show prototypes.  remember that production was promised (again!) to be up in Noveember (you know.  14 days late now) so by then he should havbe prototypes.

sorry.. no will not happen.  and I am still so scared that there are people sending in money like 1000eur in prepayments and then end up in nothing.

Company is 2 years old and all they have "produced" is like 5 B1260 PCBs (I guess they also lack GND. he haven't showed other), 2-3 MIRRORED BPPC PCBs, and 3-4 BPPC PCBs without ground (where I have 2)


Sorry but with the current person holding the data, we will never see new P5 hardware. too sad.  and as he have the data. it would not take long to produce a prototype, I would done it in well. 1 month?
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: AJCopland on December 14, 2017, 12:21:04 PM
At this rate it'd be quicker to go the A3660 route and reverse engineer an A1260 board.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: kolla on December 14, 2017, 01:38:16 PM
Quote from: AJCopland;834103
At this rate it'd be quicker to go the A3660 route and reverse engineer an A1260 board.


Reverse engineering any P5 products would be like handing him a legal fruit basket.

Easier to ask Jens for Apollo 1260 designs, with promise to fix whatever is wrong with them :)
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: cgutjahr on December 14, 2017, 02:03:17 PM
Quote from: kolla;834106
Reverse engineering any P5 products would be like handing him a legal fruit basket.
:)

It's safe to assume he doesn't own any rights. We (amiga-news.de) asked him about it more than a year ago, and the answer was... telling. He certainly doesn't own any Firmware rights according to Ralph Schmidt.
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: kreciu on December 15, 2017, 03:29:05 AM
Quote from: Chucky;834102

sorry.. no will not happen.  and I am still so scared that there are people sending in money like 1000eur in prepayments and then end up in nothing.

I'm not worry. If they sent THAT kind of money as pre-order - without even seeing working prototype(?) that is purely their choice.

BTW. I just designed time machine. I'm taking pre-orders. Only $1000 for personal use. I will post few pictures on Facebook...soon. ;-)
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: B00tDisk on December 15, 2017, 04:04:20 AM
Quote from: kreciu;834128

BTW. I just designed time machine. I'm taking pre-orders. Only $1000 for personal use. I will post few pictures on Facebook...soon. ;-)


Already bought and tested one!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3LHAlcrTRA
Title: Re: Phase 5 Digital Products comeback?
Post by: LoadWB on December 15, 2017, 02:33:33 PM
Quote from: kreciu;834128
I'm not worry. If they sent THAT kind of money as pre-order - without even seeing working prototype(?) that is purely their choice.

BTW. I just designed time machine. I'm taking pre-orders. Only $1000 for personal use. I will post few pictures on Facebook...soon. ;-)


This guy's onto something.  Here's proof you can make money with a time machine: https://locu.li/tMek