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Author Topic: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac  (Read 87438 times)

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Offline Lord Aga

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #269 from previous page: December 22, 2012, 10:11:57 PM »
Come on man, this is Amigaland. You know how stuff are. And these are 15 years old machines.

If you really don't like the agreement then you should have cleared it with Petro before buying. And not make the purchase if he stands firm. We don't need more hate in the ever small community.

I can understand this purchase hasn't met your expectations, but please take the time to think a bit about it.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 10:35:10 PM by Lord Aga »
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Offline Kremlar

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #270 on: December 22, 2012, 11:35:55 PM »
Perhaps he should have doubled his price to cover himself?  Would everyone have been happy then?

And where exactly can you find 1200s for a "fraction of the price" on eBay?
 

Offline Blinx123

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #271 on: December 23, 2012, 12:13:34 AM »
Quote from: Kremlar;720061
Perhaps he should have doubled his price to cover himself?  Would everyone have been happy then?

And where exactly can you find 1200s for a "fraction of the price" on eBay?

I don't know what you're unto with that, but

a) There are things other than pricing to cover oneself. Otherwise, how would you explain the prosperity of smaller electronic stores in Europe?

b) It wasn't that cheap. In fact, three mint bundles were sold on Ebay.co.uk the very same day I paid for mine, all going for just as much (if not less) than the ones he sold.

Perhaps that stuff is simply more expensive in the US, but here in Europe (especially in the UK) we can have Amiga 1200s for quite a bit less than the 200 euros he asked for.
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Offline Kremlar

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #272 on: December 23, 2012, 12:32:19 AM »
Quote
I don't know what you're unto with that, but

a) There are things other than pricing to cover oneself. Otherwise, how would you explain the prosperity of smaller electronic stores in Europe?  

It's not rockets science.  If he's going to sell 15 year old hardware that's been sitting in a warehouse and has to warranty it for 2 years and offer a return policy, he has to increase his price to cover himself.  If not pricing, how exactly does he do that?
 
As far as I can see he was very honest about everything, and though I doubt he is making NO money on it I doubt he is making much.  And good for him if he is making some.
 
Was it a risky purchase?  Yes, but he was very upfront about the risk.  That's why I certainly didn't order one.  But you can't take a gamble like that and then cry if things don't come out perfect.  

Quote
b) It wasn't that cheap. In fact, three mint bundles were sold on Ebay.co.uk the very same day I paid for mine, all going for just as much (if not less) than the ones he sold.
 
Perhaps that stuff is simply more expensive in the US, but here in Europe (especially in the UK) we can have Amiga 1200s for quite a bit less than the 200 euros he asked for.

It wasn't "cheap", and I can't speak for UK prices, but in the US 1200s sell for decent money - $150+ for non-working ones, and $400+ for working ones with a couple accessories.  Sounds like a fair price.  And if it's NOT a fair price, why in the world would you order one to begin with?

I understand ordering one, and I understand not ordering one - but what I don't understand is ordering one then complaining about things that were very much expected.  Sour grapes I guess.
 

Offline Blinx123

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #273 on: December 23, 2012, 02:33:52 AM »
Just leave it be, Kremlar.

You obviously don't understand enough about European consumer laws.

If everyone else has to cover 15 year old electronics (and much older stuff, as well), I don't see why he wouldn't be forced to either. After all, he wasn't shy when it came to VAT*.

Furthermore, I didn't say the price wasn't fair. It certainly would've been fair for a working NOS Amiga with warranty (used ones I've seen that day were actually going for 90-120 quid, albeit most of them only included Kickstarter 3.0, hence I didn't buy one. Out of the three bundles, two came with a EU sales warranty though. The last one being sold privately).

And again. It wasn't a risky purchase. Not by a far stretch. Not by any EU consumer law.
He will have a liability to his customers for at least the next 5 months. No matter what he says or does. Nothing can change that. The law is very clear on that.


*You simply don't charge VAT when you are trying to sell something privately.
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Offline Kremlar

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #274 on: December 23, 2012, 02:42:20 AM »
Quote
You obviously don't understand enough about European consumer laws

You obviously don't understand basic math.  If he needs to provide that kind of warranty, his selling price has to go up to cover it.  What would you prefer?  A dramatically increased price, or a much lower price and more of a gamble?  Pick your poison.
 
I'm not saying what he did was right or wrong by EU law, what I'm saying is that as far as I can see there was no deception.  Everyone knew what they were buying, he was very up front, and if they cry sour grapes afterwards and press him to warranty something he sold "as-is" that's pretty ****ty.  If nothing else it will ruin it for people who want him to provide more units in the future.
 
Doesn't matter to me either way, not something I was interested in buying - all I know is I see an awful lot of happy people buying these systems and lots of people wanting more.
 

Offline djos

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #275 on: December 23, 2012, 03:45:09 AM »
If the invoice/sales docket says the item is 2nd hand then all consumer law relating to new items is rendered moot, only any laws covering sales of 2nd hand gear applies.

Euro consumer protections are very similar to Aussie ones, we have 7 days (14 in some states) to return a defective item even on 2nd hand gear - only exception is if was sold in unknown or not working condition, then it's buyer beware.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 03:47:21 AM by djos »
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Offline Blinx123

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #276 on: December 23, 2012, 03:54:06 PM »
Quote from: djos;720082
If the invoice/sales docket says the item is 2nd hand then all consumer law relating to new items is rendered moot, only any laws covering sales of 2nd hand gear applies.

Almost correct.
Our consumer laws also cover used items.
The only difference between a used item and a brand new one is that the seller may reduce the warrany time-window to a 12 month term (which doesn't really alter anything, since it's almost impossible to return something after the first 6 months anyways*).

He will have to outline this before the sale is conducted, otherwise the usual 24 months apply.


*You'd have to pay an expert to prove that the good already showed signs of this fault during the first 6 months, which almost never works and costs more than most standard consumer good.

Quote
Euro consumer protections are very similar to Aussie ones, we have 7 days (14 in some states) to return a defective item even on 2nd hand gear - only exception is if was sold in unknown or not working condition, then it's buyer beware.

We have 14 days to return an item, regardless if it's defective or we simply don't like it anymore (postage is paid by the buyer, if the product is either bulky or cost less than 40 euros).

The not in working condition clause is also renderered mood by the fact that VAT was applied. Defective goods are tax exempt.


@Kremlar

I would prefer no 3

- Not behaving like an ignorant sheep, selling something in a way that is against the very law of the country he set up shop in.

I wouldn't even complain, had he not charged VAT and, in all certainty, written off expenses.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 03:59:48 PM by Blinx123 »
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Offline edd_jedi

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #277 on: December 23, 2012, 05:03:03 PM »
This is hilarious. Seriously, if you're the kind of person who even considers playing the 'consumer laws' card when dealing with 20 year old computers that have been sitting in a warehouse for 15 years, retro computing probably isn't for you.

FYI, the warranty seals on the bottom of all of the Amiga's were broken YEARS ago when the company went bust and the units were resold as dead stock, because a company that doesn't exist cannot offer a warranty. There is no scam or conspiracy here, they're just a load of old odd Amiga's, and some of them are bound to have issues after so long. If you're not willing to take that risk, buy a tested one from Amibay or something.
 

Offline Everblue

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #278 on: December 23, 2012, 05:13:10 PM »
While I don't expect to get a warranty, I would expect that at least these are checked before shipping (just switch the thing on, and boot a disk, that's all). Not having a warranty I find acceptable, DOA I don't.

Edit: Also, why is he charging VAT?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 05:16:54 PM by Everblue »
 

Offline mc68070

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #279 on: December 23, 2012, 06:48:20 PM »
Quote from: edd_jedi;720125
FYI, the warranty seals on the bottom of all of the Amiga's were broken YEARS ago when the company went bust and the units were resold as dead stock, because a company that doesn't exist cannot offer a warranty. There is no scam or conspiracy here, they're just a load of old odd Amiga's, and some of them are bound to have issues after so long. If you're not willing to take that risk, buy a tested one from Amibay or something.

And what's the explanation for the missing screws under the Amigas, for the UK keyboard layouts which don't match the stickers under the units, for the rubber pads which are dirty, for the open software boxes inside... ?
 

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #280 on: December 23, 2012, 08:44:09 PM »
Yeap its confirmed...Petro is a fraud.

People don't buy any Amigas from the second batch so me and other suckers can get our hands on one of those.

P.S
Today he posted on facebook that the second batch and its allocation will start on the 20th of January...let's hope that Petro sells them this time to people who can appreciate them.
 

Offline Lord Aga

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #281 on: December 23, 2012, 09:06:22 PM »
Quote from: Hellraiser;720148

People don't buy any Amigas from the second batch so me and other suckers can get our hands on one of those.


This :)
Has he confirmed how much of them are coming ?
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Offline Blinx123

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #282 on: December 23, 2012, 09:44:18 PM »
@edd_jedi

FYI. I'm not talking about a guarantee (which is what you're obviously referring to. Not sure if you know the difference, but thought it was worth pointing out) but about a basic (sales) warranty.

It doesn't matter if the company which manufactured the units still exists or not. A warranty is extended from the trader towards the costumer. Every basic good purchased on a non-private level (i. e. not sold from one individual to the next but through a legal body such as a company is) comes with 24 months of warranty and, if purchased online, the basic right to return it within 14 days.

@Everblue

I'd agree to the stance of not offering any warranty, had he sold these units himself.
Instead, he charged VAT, wrote them off and whatnot.

Considering the many ways he and his company have of making some money of these units, he probably made at least double of what he sold them for (if the company is just as thorough as I think every company would be in such an economic climate and with the many loopholes in place).  


@mc68070

Exactly.

These units were either refurbished years ago or Power Service GmbH (the legal body which sold them under orders of Petro, the current CEO) did indeed check them (and even  replaced a few, cheap basic parts) but dispatched broken units nontheless.
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Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #283 on: December 23, 2012, 09:46:14 PM »
@Lord Aga

He didn't say but  previously he mentioned that the second batch would consist of 50 Amigas.
 

Offline nadoom

Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #284 on: December 23, 2012, 11:12:56 PM »
@Blinx123
Ok I have heard enough of this, what exactly are you going on about here? You know that he sold them as is, and you know they the hardware is ancient. One thing is coming on here and trying to get ideas about how to fix your hardware another thing is coming on here and complaining that the hardware that was sold to you 'as is' 'is as'.

I also do not like the way you have constantly been on petros case over this, this guy who has basically done many of us a massive favour when he could have just not given a s**t about the amiga community.

Good luck with taking him to the european court of human rights!

PS All the caps on my Petro 1200 were fine.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 11:14:58 PM by nadoom »
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